Matt Gurney: 'We will never fucking trust you again'
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Late last month, attending the Halifax International Security Forum, I was having the damndest feeling. Can you have déja vu for something that you only experienced via fiction? Because it was kind of like that.
The fiction in question was a novel by an Australian , published during the Second Iraq War. Anti-American sentiment was running rampant all over the world. The premise of the novel is out there in the realm of sci-fi — America disappears. Specifically, Americans disappear — some mysterious wave of energy scours most of North America clean of life. Virtually all of the U.S. is wiped out; most of Canada and Mexico, too. Somewhat to the surprise of the anti-Americans, this does not result in an improvement in life on Planet Earth.
Standing around at the forum, eating the delicious snacks and drinking the good coffee and chatting with friends old and new, that was what I kept thinking about. Where are the Americans? And what the hell are we going to do without them?
And, in case you’re wondering what’s up with that headline, here’s another question — what will we do if they one day try and come back?
The forum is an annual gathering of senior military officers, defence and intelligence officials from across the free world, and representatives from the media, think tanks, large companies and civil society organizations whose work relates to defence and security issues or in some way seeks to promote and preserve a healthy democratic world. Funded by NATO, the Canadian government and private-sector sponsors, the event is a major part of Canada’s “soft power” offering to our allies — we host the big party and show everybody a good time. The actual schedule is split between on-the-record panel talks or presentations, off-the-record sessions, and informal time for mingling and schmoozing. I am grateful to have been invited to participate again this year.
Especially this year. I’ve been going to the forum for years, and the event always had a strongly American flavour.
Not anymore! Yankee went home.
Like, literally. He was ordered to go home, or stay there. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth ordered the Pentagon to avoid a series of high-profile annual defence summits. That includes Halifax, and others in places like Munich and Singapore, and even inside the United States itself. The reason, according to the Pentagon’s press apparatus, was that, and I swear to God this is the actual quote , such events promote “the evil of globalism, disdain for our great country and hatred for the president of the United States.”
Oh. Well, then.
That’s what made the forum so fascinating this year. As I told my colleague Jen Gerson while I was in Halifax, the entire event felt a little bit like the first Thanksgiving after a divorce. It’s great to see everyone, but there’re some notable absences, is the thing.
Let me be clear about one thing: there were indeed a great many Americans at the forum in Halifax. I don’t want to suggest otherwise. There was a large Congressional Delegation, or a “CODEL,” present at the forum, as there is every year. If anything, I think this year had an unusually large CODEL. And it was a bipartisan one, too. But I noticed something interesting. They were all senators. No House reps. I can’t help but suspect that’s because they’re either planning to retire (some have said already they will) or because the longer six-year term afforded senators gives them some ability to withstand White House anger that House reps, with two-year terms, don’t have.
There were plenty of other Americans from private companies, think tanks, academia, and many former and retired U.S. government officials. And I’m going to be extremely careful in how I describe this: I have a pretty good hunch that some U.S. military officers were indeed in attendance, because — gosh! what a coincidence! — they just happened to be in Halifax on vacation at the exact same time the forum was taking place.
I was glad to see these Americans and had many fascinating chats with them. But I have to tell you all, dear readers, that the lack of official U.S. military and government representation was very obvious. And those brave Americans who did attend did not have an easy time. There was some pretty strong talk aimed at America, either directly or in absentia. And I think that many of the American visitors were surprised by the vehemence of some of the comments and questions directed their way.
Let me give you an example from an on-the-record session that I can quote directly. Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (Democrat-New Hampshire) was the head of this year’s CODEL and had a one-on-one chat with moderator Nick Schifrin, an American journalist from PBS. You can see it all here . But things got really interesting when Canadian senator Stan Kucher got up to ask a question. It’s at the 18-minute-ish mark of the video linked to above. Kucher rattled off various criticisms of the “peace deal” that has been proposed for Ukraine, a deal that was dismissively described at the forum as a real estate transaction. After making his own views on the proposed deal clear (he’s not a fan), Kucher said this to Shaheen: “We’ve talked about allyship. What should the allies, who uphold democratic values, in the reality that the United States has walked away from them … what should the allies do?”
Pretty blunt by the standards of most Canadian senators I’ve ever talked to. I expected Shaheen to reject the premise of the question.
She didn’t.
She noted that other allies had already rejected the terms of the proposed peace, and reiterated that she agrees with them. And fair enough. But, wow. The question was about Ukraine, but it raised a much deeper point — America has “walked away” from its allies. And the leader of the CODEL took no issue with that characterization.
Here’s another example, again from an on-record part of the proceedings. David Zapolsky, chief global affairs and legal officer from Amazon, was giving remarks. (Amazon is one of the forum’s sponsors.) He was being interviewed by Jamie Tarabay, a Bloomberg reporter. You can see their conversation here , but as the panel was wrapping up, Tarabay dropped a humdinger of a question on Zapolsky. Here’s the quote (slightly cleaned up for clarity): “We’re in an age where there’s a government that puts pressure on companies [and] people for [Trump’s] own gain. You have been so steadfast in your support for Ukraine. What will Amazon do if your government says ‘Stop’?”
Zapolsky replied that the company has contracts with foreign governments and NATO allies and said that Amazon would only change those relationships if it was legally forced to do so via something like a sanction.
There were two fascinating things about that exchange (it starts around the 17-minute mark of that video). The first was the question itself; it alone was a signal of how much things have changed.
The second interesting thing is that Zapolsky’s answer was, with respect, bullshit.
I can see why he’s a legal officer! He gave an answer that was legally correct — the only way that the U.S. government can officially bar Amazon from providing cloud services for a foreign military, for example, would be by sanctions or some comparable legislation.
But that’s not how it could go. What would happen is that someone senior at Amazon, maybe Jeff Bezos himself, would get a call from some golf partner or drinking buddy in the administration, and the message will be simple: “Stop, or you won’t get contracts. We’ll arrange some hearings into your operations. Your little spaceflight company will find itself under way more levels of regulatory review than your Musk-owned competitor. This is what the boss wants. Make it happen.”
Amazon or any other U.S.-based company will then make the decision that best promotes and protects long-term shareholder value. And that decision will be, in every case, to submit and comply. Everyone in the room knew that. America is different, now. It’s inescapable.
Those are some examples from the on-the-record sessions. The most dramatic one by far — and yes, we’re finally getting to the headline you all clicked on — was in a session that was covered by Chatham House rules — I can directly quote what was said, but I cannot identify the speaker. The session, over dinner, was a small group. It was about America’s moral leadership in the world. Our moderator was a now-former American official. She was pretty frank and clear-eyed about how America’s allies currently view the country’s place in the world, but also expressed some hope that after the midterms next year or maybe the next presidential election, things would start to get more back to normal. We were assured that a lot of people in America are still with us. Some of the other Americans present nodded their heads.
And, like, gosh. Boy. I confess to readers that due to extenuating circumstances, my reserves of both patience and charm are largely exhausted at present. I informed the moderator, probably more bluntly than I might have normally, that that wasn’t going to happen. The damage is already done. I know firsthand that a great many Americans who really do believe in the post-1945 global order, and of America’s prior role in the world and the value of that role to America and Americans, are still inside the U.S. government. But I also know that many of them are retiring, or seeking early retirement, or switching to consulting gigs. They can’t stomach what U.S. foreign policy is becoming, and they won’t be a part of it.
Good for them. But every single person who departs is being replaced by someone who is totally fine with the new U.S. foreign policy. And sometimes is actually quite enthusiastic about it. That will accelerate the process that’s already underway. And those new people are going to have long careers, shaping things both in public and behind the scenes. And the damage to America’s soft power — the shutting down of aid programs and things like Voice of America — can’t be undone rapidly no matter who wins the midterms. U.S. troops that are pulled out of bases where the U.S. no longer sees a strategic reason for their presence aren’t likely to come back.
And, this is the critical part, wouldn’t necessarily be welcomed even if they did.
I worry that I might have been a bit brash with my American dining companions that night. (If any of them are reading this and if I was, sorry. Lot goin’ on over here.) But before I could worry about it too much, a senior military officer from a major (non-American) allied nation drove a stake right through the heart of the matter.
America has blown 80 years of accumulated goodwill and trust among its allies, our American moderator was told. A rock-steady assumption of allied defence and security planning for literally generations has been that America would act in its own interests, sure, but that those interests would be rational, and would still generally value the institutions that America itself worked so hard to build after the Second World War. America’s recent actions have destroyed the ability of any ally to continue to have faith in America to act even within its own strategic self-interest, let alone that of any ally.
The officer then said that even a swift return of America to its former role won’t matter.
Because “we will never fucking trust you again.”
The Americans at the table seemed somewhat startled by the heat of that pronouncement. I agreed with it entirely. So, it seemed to me, did most of the non-Americans.
This wasn’t the only such moment at the forum this year, but it was, to me, the most interesting. And it was still being talked about the next day. “Thank God,” one allied official said to me. “Someone had to tell them.”
If there’s one thing I think people should take from my visit to Halifax, it’s that. America’s former role is gone. And I think that Americans themselves are having the hardest time of all coming to terms with what that might actually mean in the long run.
Stay tuned for more from Halifax in the coming days.
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Sorry America but this is what happens when you elect a leader who transforms Manifest Destiny into festering indecency.
This is what happens when ignorance becomes more the rule, than the exception
Its starting to look a lot like its a feature, not a bug.
(To coin a phrase).
Unfortunately, I think the attitude of most of the Americans on NT is that they really don't give a shit. Seems to me that most of what Trump has been doing and wants to do is going to, if not already, have the effect of isolating America from the rest of the world. I think a term to use is unilateralism as opposed to multilateralism.
I give a shit. The United States is a member of the global community. It saddens, angers, and embarrasses me that we have blown all that good will because of the impetuousness of one man.
I don't believe in isolationism. We have to get along with the rest of the world
I know you give a shit. Keep up the good work.
Our Country needs more Fibre
Your country needs more politicians with integrity and principles.
More all Fibre
they need more fiber, too. May I suggest steel cut oats and prunes?
We can either lead, follow or get out of the way. Leading made us great, getting out of the way, like isolationists want will make us a third world shit hole.
We used to lead now I think we should follow until we find our way again
China has already stepped into the breach. Finding our way to lead again will take another world war.
Oh lordy! I have enough nightmares about nuclear bombs
wtf? hunting, torturing, and killing maga will be the best part of nuclear winter ... /s
count me out. I want to go out with the first shroom cloud
chances are I won't even know if/when it happens. as far as I know, I'd still be within 10 and 70 miles of 2 ground zero craters ...
That's not close enough to vaporize you. Ten miles might tear you to bits with the high energy burst. You'll definitely be irradiated. Seventy miles is too far.
I want to sit on one of the nukes in Missouri if they still have them there
Not that far from where I live now. I just need time to get there
just drive towards the blinding flashes ...
I want to be vaporized. The thought of dying of radiation sickness gives me nightmares
The thought of dying of radiation sickness makes me sicker.
Are you possibly promoting TG flavored vapes...?
As long as they get me high, i'll take and bake one !
ummm...not sure you want a TG flavored vape.
Morning Vangy...well you could always migrate to a far safer country....
For example like, like Austral...oh wait umm second thoughts maybe you should stay there and just take your chances..
Yeah! Just like that!
You have seen "On the Beach" haven't you? Australia doesn't win, either
... yeah, your lot learned lessons about bringing over non-native species, didn't they, you bloody ripper ...
Great movie!
great book, too
Yes but we can party longer than anyone else on earth and we can go out with a bang....
I've heard that about you mob. Chunder and carry on
you'd think they'd been thru it before, after seeing some of the creatures wandering around on that sandbar ...
Morning... nothing wrong with our sandbar... it's you mob that are weird...see.. perfectly normal yes it can kill ya.. they love tourists..
Just a harmless Cassowary until you make it mad...
rubbish mate, their skulls are mostly bone just like what shows on your rainbow necked turkey picture ...
🤣🤣🤣
Like to see you try putting it in a roasting dish..
Yikes!
Nope you don't mess with a Cassowary..other than Devangy..
You only do it once..😁
how's that oz feathered lizard going to find me and attack me with it's head lopped off?
... you know if they see it coming, their body keeps running for a bit ...
we've got a yearly festival in my state celebrating a headless chicken.
You have to catch it first..I will have my money on Cassie..😁
Catharsis!
Should tell them to rename it..
Headless chook run, you would be the only one to know what that meant..🤣
The ostrich is twice as big. The secretary bird is smaller, but a seriously determined killer.
Hey! Whadda ya want from dinosaurs .
Don't be fooled by it's size..Emus are a lot bigger than a Cassie but the Cassie is way more dangerous and stronger..
They will attack humans have killed a couple of people including one guy in the States a few years back...he had it as a pet somewhat of a mistake, dogs and other animals..
They are extremely aggressive when they have got chicks around..
Good movie.
I especiaslly liked the last scenes--all the devastation-- while they played "Waltzing Matilda" in ther background.
There has been widespread apathy in the Unites States about Donald Trump. Everyone knows he's mean, greedy, ignorant, megalomaniacal clown with delusions of grandeur, but most people are focused on their own activities and assume everything will work itself out in the end. Hungarians probably thought the same.
Nobody makes it more obvious than you that you give a shit.
It seems like if we're going to use "don't give a shit" as a condemnation, we should have a clear definition of what it is people do or don't give this shit about.
What exactly is that, as you see it!
I said most, not ALL Americans. The fact that the world can no longer trust the USA, which is the point of the article, that Trump is able to get away with making enemies out of allies, isolating America, damage world trade, and other things I've already posted about the politicians and the SCotUS is what too many Americans don't give a shit about. Because if they really DID give a shit, they would do something about it. There were times in the past that people DID do something about it, like this...
Its a secret-- we aren't allowed to mention it!
That is the attitude of most (if not all) current Trump supporters.
I will bet large that most Americans do indeed care greatly that Trump has been allowed to damage trust among allies and trade partners at such a large degree.
This was my first concern when Trump took office and immediately engaged in gratuitous threats and taunts to our trading partners (especially Canada).
Yes. But we have no recourse. SCOTUS and the GOP members of Congress have largely abrogated their responsibility to maintain checks and balances. They are supposed to be a safeguard against dictatorship, but they've failed.
The Supreme Court as well as many other justices, with some exceptions, have towed the GOP line dragging US all down. Manay putin place by GOP think tankin our country.
The Republican house and Senate are the most guilty imho.
Their fear of 47 and possible loss of power has made them Trumps' Bitches.
The electorate is finally beginning to see Trumps' true colors, and they are not Red White and Blue. May these failures GOP Reps) to society pay a deer price for what they've allowed, mainly by silence and ommission
It's clear: the only way this can end well is if 2026 goes deep blue, and then that trend continues, election after election, until MAGA dies of old age. Because regardless of events MAGA will worship their Leader.
IF (very big "if") the Dems win in 2028, the President must offer Trump's SC Justices a choice of resignation or the court gets packed.
Mafia like extortion threats like this are standard fare in leftist discourse and yet they'll still claim Trump is the one who is a danger to democracy. Just amazing to see.
is your reply
Fascists have abused their power over SC nominations for years, now. Turn about!
Things may change significantly after the midterms.
Parts of this thread were removed for no value
but they were my favorite ones...
always ...
French media make it clear that that government doesn't believe in a return to "normal" relations.
Much as the France likes to pretends it is still 1880, the reality is France is pretty much irrelevant and steadily declining. Normal relations or not aren't really worth bothering about.
No kidding, France should become an Argentinian territory. /s
nah, argentina is 4 generations deep in nazi DNA now, so not a good mix ...
People are saying that France is irrelevant because they son't have nukes.
In my opinion, this world is a lot safer without 'loose' nukes in the form of more countries having them!
... other than in their missile-launcher subs, aboard their missile-launcher aircraft, and in their missile-launcher silos. Ya know... the same triad as the US.
And whereas the UK's nukes have always been supplied by the US - and therefore are subject to US control, France created its nukes, so they're not at all under US control.
O my goodness, even Alexa knows France has nuclear weapons ("225 (approximately) as of 2025). I should have taken time to verify, since I thought that it was so. . . but, alas, I did not research it! I did 'something' else.
No worries. Americans are just like Canadians in that we don’t need our neighbors telling us how to run things here. Canada would do well to just mind their own business. Plenty of ills of their own to be fixed up there eh?
Get on it little brother.
LOL. Just Canada, Sparty? Did you read the article?
Not just Canada, not just America's neighbours, Sparty, but the rest of the world.
I wasn’t excluding anyone but our little brother to the north is just right there and immediately comes to mind.
If I had my way we’d pull our presence out of everywhere and let all our allies and “friends” in the world deal with it for awhile without our help or aid. Take the money saved and work on American domestic issues and not ungrateful frenemies. Let Europe and the rest of world handle things for awhile.
Work for you? I know China would sure love that.
They all have been leeching off the US for far to long.
Such as $20billion for Argentinian beef suppliers coming out of American's pockets, but not to worry, another $20billion will be taken from the same pockets to compensate American beef suppliers in some fantasy economic Crypto League of now you see it, now you don't ... and you never will.
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Morning...and in 3 years time the world will heave a huge sigh of relief and hope America gets it right next time...
... it could be closer to 13 months, if the midterms flip congress and trump can't get the maga morons to revolt.
you better build a prison way back in the bush quickly, because we're sending that whole lot your way, to where all the rest of mother nature's evolutionary rejects seem to thrive in the wild. do what you want with them after they get there, but don't let them interact with normal humans. I don't reckon your mob has any crock farms or shark tanks available for paying tourists to watch at feeding time ...
... aren't the creatures on tasmania hungry?
Morning... Tassie is pretty tame it's the rest of Oz you have to worry about..😁
don't let them mix into society or breed, and it's best to put them where they can't travel somewhere else ...
M.F.I.F., eh?
FWIW Trump's poll numbers (favorability vs unfavorability) have been trending more negative lately.
While things could change, right now it looks like there's a good chance the Democrats will end up controlling one or both houses of Congressn after midterm elections.
It also looks like his health is not good.
Dementia and a stroke, at least.
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Again, voted for him all three times. No one to blame for that than all the Democrats who picked their last three chosen ones. The egregious nature of which is difficult to define on multiple levels.
No, the blame goes on those who voted for Trump.
You "voted for him all three times" thus you are to blame (for your part) for having a psychopath as PotUS. On top of that, you are to blame for your continued support of this psychopath.
It is not the Ds or anyone else, the blame falls on those who voted for and continue to support Trump.
i didn’t stutter.
This started with the first chosen one. The heir apparent, the one who could not lose. Hillary. No way I could vote for that evil bitch. The Dems had a candidate in 2016 I could have, and likely would have voted for but Hill had the DNC torpedo him. Big time.
Jim Webb.
It just got worse from there so try selling the “it’s everyone else’s fault” platitudes to someone else. I’m not buying that highly biased, myopic bullshit.
It is the voters who voted for Trump that put him in office. And it is those who continue to support him that enable him to continue with his destructive words and deeds.
You cannot blame anyone other than yourself and fellow Trump supporters.
You mean those "Electoral" voters???
Funny how that works, eh?
Yes, 1st, the electoral college is the mechanism. But the electoral college correlates with the votes of the people.
In 2024, it was people voting for Trump that put that abysmal human being in the office of the presidency.
See how that works?
Pretty sad when the dems put up people for president when a game show host looks like a better (only) person worth voting for. I can't blame them for pushing something and not admit that truth.
Yep. It's really just a binary choice between the nominees of the two major parties. It's just pissy partisanship to only blame the votes for the other side when your own side puts up such a bad candidate. Not that we get any great people who are willing to run for that office. Fairly sure we will never see a politician nominated for sainthood.
Trump was elected because of the people who voted for him.
One can appropriately blame the Ds for how they messed up the campaign (Biden running and then leaving the Ds to scramble at the last minute). But that does not change the fact that Trump is PotUS because people voted for him.
Those who voted for Trump are the reason this abysmal human being is PotUS. Those who continue to support/defend Trump are the reason this psychopath still has power.
I bet most Americans do not approve of the way Trump has treated our trading partners ... especially Canada. He is very likely NOT speaking for us but rather for himself.
Trump is an embarrassment and has damaged this nation; and it continues.
We have met the enemy and it is us...