╌>

How we know Trump won the debate!

  
By:  Vic Eldred  •  4 years ago  •  124 comments


How we know Trump won the debate!
“You and Barack Obama are the reason I am the President of the United States today” - President Donald Trump

Leave a comment to auto-join group We the People

We the People


Last night we got to enjoy a substantive debate. One in which we finally got some answers from Joe Biden.

First Fact Check: Millions of insurance plans were cancelled due to Obamacare, but Biden says nobody lost their plans!


njCU4PFK?format=jpg&name=small
"Not one single person with private insurance would lose their insurance under my plan, nor did they under Obamacare.".. ..Joe Biden

Then MS Welker who chose the topics decided we needed yet another round of "climate change" (Yet no foreign policy discussion) asked about what a Biden administration would do about the matter. “I’m going to end the oil industry.” - Joe Biden. Hello, Pennsylvania? Hello, Texas?  That has to kill Biden's chances in PA. He also lied yet again about "Fracking."

"In a March Democratic primary debate, he said: “No more – no new fracking,” after then-rival Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders said he would end the practice in order to combat global warming.

Biden’s campaign said he meant he wouldn’t allow new federal land-drilling leases.

In an August campaign event in Pennsylvania Biden stressed that “I am not banning fracking.”

Fracking got a lot of airplay during the vice presidential debates on Wednesday night, as Mike Pence claimed a Biden administration would ban the practice.

But Biden’s running mate, Sen. Kamala Harris fiercely pushed back on the suggestion.

“I will repeat, and the American people will know, Joe Biden will not ban fracking. That is a fact. That is a fact,” Harris said.

Her comments drew the interest of President Trump, who weighed in on Twitter with Harris’ own record on fracking.

The president posted a clip from what appeared to be a town hall event in which the California lawmaker said that there was “no question” she was in favor of banning fracking.

“Joe Biden and Kamala Harris BOTH want to BAN FRACKING,”  Trump wrote ."

https://nypost.com/2020/10/07/trump-weighs-in-on-vp-debate-with-fracking-fact-check/


Joe Biden also told us last night that his son Hunter had never done anything "unethical!"   and that We once got along with Hitler!




Before the event one of Hunter Biden's former partners held a press conference:







As of this morning the Biden defense team (the media) is working overtime to say that Biden's biggest error -- saying he wants to end the oil industry -- is no big deal and isn't that what we all say in our hearts anyway!   jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif  


The clear winner by TKO


Ek-zhZ8WMAEMSlX?format=jpg&name=small




Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
 

Tags

jrGroupDiscuss - desc
[]
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    4 years ago

Yup, the best part of the night was seeing those long, sour, angry faces at CNN & MSNBC

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 years ago

Joe really blew the fracking thing. Trump had him flustered as hell.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1    4 years ago

Biden did appear rattled, didn't he?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1    4 years ago

They are both trying to play everyone on the fracking thing.   They will leave one well open and say they kept their promise.

Anyone that doesn't have their head completely up their #2 hole knows just how disingenuous that promise is.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 years ago

I was watching the debate on ABC and their overwhelming consensus afterwards is that Biden won.  Only Chris Christie thought otherwise. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2    4 years ago

BTW, Who are the "Poor Boys" Biden mentioned last night?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.2.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2.1    4 years ago

I guess he was hungry................

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif       jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
1.2.3  Colour Me Free  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.2.2    4 years ago

Oooo come on now .. be nice - I am certain that many Americans did not even catch that...  I giggled, but it was too late to text you : ) 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.2.4  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Colour Me Free @1.2.3    4 years ago

Never too late. I heard it too and thought "Huh?" 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
1.2.5  Colour Me Free  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.2.4    4 years ago

Thanks for the link ... Last night was a real contrast .. Trump was more positive about the future .. Biden was gloom and doom...

'We' are learning to live with the pandemic .. there will always be idiots that do not respect others right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness .. they will never get that their rights end where mine begin ..(but that is a different subject all together)

Haha you need your beauty sleep  : )

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.6  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2.1    4 years ago

Is that the mental acuity evidence you’ve been so desperately searching for?  Good luck with that.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.7  JohnRussell  replied to  Colour Me Free @1.2.5    4 years ago

Why in the world do you present yourself as objective when you constantly lean toward trump? Just be honest for christ sake. 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
1.2.8  Colour Me Free  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.7    4 years ago

Yes dear....

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.9  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2.1    4 years ago

Biden Accidentally Refers To Proud Boys As 'Poor Boys.' People Rave Over The Rebrand.

Democratic presidential nominee   Joe Biden   made a minor flub during the final presidential debate on Thursday night, referring to the white supremacist group Proud Boys as “poor boys” ― and social media went wild over the comment.

While weighing in on President   Donald Trump ’s response to a question on race relations in America, Biden listed the president’s racist behavior and remarks before adding: “He has made everything worse across the board. He said about the poor boys, the last time we were on stage here, he said, ‘I tell them to stand down and stand ready.’ Come on. This guy is a dog whistle about as big as a foghorn.”

By “poor boys,” Biden meant the far-right group Proud Boys, whom Trump avoided denouncing at the last presidential debate. Instead, Trump declared: “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.” The request was later met with   support from the group.

The unintentional rebranding of Proud Boys sent Twitter into a tizzy as many shared their joy at the hate group being inadvertently dissed and insisted that their new name is, in fact, “Poor Boys.”

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
1.4  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 years ago

Your headline proclaims:

How We Know Trump Won The Debate!

Yet you don't tell 'us' how 'we' know that. 

Please proceed.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @1.4    4 years ago

Got past you?  The picture explains it.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.4.2  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.1    4 years ago

How does the picture explain it?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @1.4.2    4 years ago

I even spelled it out in Post # 1, at the very beginning.  Didn't you read it?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
1.4.4  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.3    4 years ago

I would call your cable provider.

I saw no long sour faces, but Joy, Rachel and Nicole were having a party, lol.

I did tape it, so after I watch part of the Eagles game again, I will revisit the whole "debate" and aftermath.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @1.4.4    4 years ago
I saw no long sour faces

I feared you wouldn't. That's why I posted them for you.


I did tape it, so after I watch part of the Eagles game again, I will revisit the whole "debate" and aftermath.


Good for you!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.4.6  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.3    4 years ago

No, why would I?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @1.4.6    4 years ago
No, why would I?

Because reading educates one.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.4.8  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.7    4 years ago

LOL!  Not from your sources . . . 'articles'

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @1.4.8    4 years ago

Oh, I know, have them closed!

OwRzMO6r?format=jpg&name=small

I just had one closed!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.4.10  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.9    4 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.11  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @1.4.10    4 years ago
"Please fix the seed link and let me know when corrected, thanks"

No can do! I'm a subscriber to the WSJ. If I post the entire URL, people could go to it and see my name. We know how it is with the little darlings on the left. They aren't going to see my name. I'm satisfied that enough of our readers got to read MS Strassel's excellent article.


You're not a victim of oppression Vic.

To quote a movie line "Look at me, now look at you!"



 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.4.12  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.11    4 years ago

I know how it is with some little darlings on the 'right'.  I had posted a facebook link one time not realizing folks could see my personal information there.  

Some of your little darlings mocked me to no end.

Yeah, I know how that goes.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.4.13  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.11    4 years ago
MS Strassel's excellent article.

Yep, very sharp woman.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.4.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @1.4.12    4 years ago
I had posted a facebook link one time not realizing folks could see my personal information there.  

A word to the wise - Facebook is a public forum - anything you post there shall be subject to public scrutiny.


Yeah, I know how that goes.

I don't think you, or a few others know the difference. There is no comparison between the extremes. The left is hate-filled and prone to violence. They also want to censor opposing opinions, intimidate those who wish to speak their minds and punish those they don't like.

Don't bother posting any anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.4.15  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.4.14    4 years ago

"I don't think you, or a few others know the difference. There is no comparison between the extremes. The left is hate-filled and prone to violence. They also want to censor opposing opinions, intimidate those who wish to speak their minds and punish those they don't like."

You've got projection down to a science there Vic.  

"Don't bother posting any anecdotal evidence to the contrary."

Why would I bother posting anything which you or Jim would promptly delete?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.4.16  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @1.4.15    4 years ago
Why would I bother posting anything which you or Jim would promptly delete?

You're not a victim of oppression ma'am. Happens to some.....................for a reason usually.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.4.17  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.4.16    4 years ago

I never said I was, unlike Vic.

Some people hold a grudge and never let gojrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

Some of us choose to move on.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.5  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 years ago

No, Putin is one of the major reasons tRump is 'president', not former President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
2  The Magic 8 Ball    4 years ago
  • ban fracking
  • path to citizenship for 11 million
  • raise taxes
  • 47yrs of selling out our country

say goodbye joe /

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
2.1  Jasper2529  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @2    4 years ago

You added 4 more Biden lies that I forgot about to the ones I posted on this seed. jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gif jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3  Sean Treacy    4 years ago

Trump did better handled and handled the Two against one format better. I’d love to the see the count of how many times the moderator jumped in when he started in on Biden.  Biden, of course, Never had to deal with that.

i think his best line of attack, which he probably should have focused on more during the campaign, was that Biden failed to accomplish anything in 47 years in Washington. (Other than make himself and his family rich) He apologizes for the little that he did do In the senate.   47 years of failure won’t lead to four of success.

biden is selling unicorns. He promises everything without admitting the trade offs. That’s standard democratic strategy and works with low information democratic voters. They always assume the “rich” will pay more. That’s not how it works with massive governmental programs like a public option, (if Biden ever figures out who will be eligible).  Taxes will go up, a public option will clear out private insurance and cause people to lose their coverage.  That’s reality.

Biden’s still leading and it will take a miracle for him to lose the election.  But voters are going to remember they were better off after four years of Trump, even marred by a pandemic.  Four years from now, they are unlikely to say the same.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    4 years ago
 But voters are going to remember they were better off after four years of Trump, even marred by a pandemic.







 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    4 years ago

Still using Breitbart and NY Post as your sources?  What a hoot!  The only folks better off after four years of this 'president' are the already wealthy/very wealthy, the 'president' and his criminal enterprise of an administration, oh and his family, the tRump crime family.

Wealthy tRump donors got a heads up in the start of the pandemic (back in February) and were able to profit greatly off the pandemic.  

"Trump administration tipped off wealthy investors about coronavirus while it downplayed threat in public
Jacob Crosse   5 October 2020
A memorandum leaked by a hedge fund consultant to the  New York Times reveals that in February, while President Trump was declaring there was no danger to the public from the coronavirus, White House officials were informing wealthy supporters of the administration that the pandemic represented a significant threat of uncertain dimensions—triggering decisions by numerous investors to short-sell stocks and profit from the ensuing plunge in the stock market."
 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
3.2  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    4 years ago
Biden’s still leading

no... lol

the polls are shit.

biden never had a chance, and still doesn't.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
3.3  Jasper2529  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    4 years ago
I’d love to the see the count of how many times the moderator jumped in when he started in on Biden.  Biden, of course, Never had to deal with that.

Moderator interruptions:

Trump ... 111

Biden ... 22

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3.3.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Jasper2529 @3.3    4 years ago

Wow! That's a ton.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
3.3.2  Jasper2529  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.3.1    4 years ago

I kept a running tally as I watched, and my numbers were confirmed by professionals on FNC this morning.

Every time Trump called out Biden's lies or brought up the Biden Crime Family's pay to play/foreign influence emails, the moderator tried to shut Trump down during the "free time" periods. It was very obvious who she was defending ... just like Chris Wallace did.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
3.3.3  pat wilson  replied to  Jasper2529 @3.3.2    4 years ago

Trump told her she did a fantastic job.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.3.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  pat wilson @3.3.3    4 years ago
Trump told her she did a fantastic job.

He was talking about his Golf caddy!

C_koikGQ?format=png&name=small

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4  JohnRussell    4 years ago

Tony Bobulinski Held Presser Claiming Joe Biden Knew About Hunter's Business Deals

You may be aware that a Wall St Journal story last night debunked the idea that Biden had any actual involvement, at all, in a deal involving millions of dollars and China, so I guess we are now down to whether or not Joe Biden knew Hunter had business partners. 

The "deal" was discussed in 2017 by the way, after Joe was out of office. 

You and your buddies laid another dud on us Vic.  Remember, you are the guy that told us that the "unmasking" scandal was going to send democrats to prison. 

Tony Bobulinskis bs didnt even last 48 hours. The shelf life of these fabrications is getting shorter. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4    4 years ago
Remember, you are the guy that told us that the "unmasking" scandal was going to send democrats to prison. 

Show me where I ever said that. What you really mean is the AG has dispensed with indicting anyone for "unmasking."  A single issue, John.


You may be aware that a Wall St Journal story last night debunked the idea that Biden had any actual involvement

Do you have the article you are referring to?   I do! It details what each of Hunter's business partners said about those events. It doesn't really draw conclusions!

Here - from the article, which I doubt you have:

"Mr. Gilliar told the Journal: “I would like to clear up any speculation that former Vice President Biden was involved with the 2017 discussions about our potential business structure. I am unaware of any involvement at anytime of the former Vice President. The activity in question never delivered any project revenue.”

Are you saying that Gillar's word is better than Bobulinkis?


Here - is more from that article:

"In the correspondence provided by Mr. Bobulinski, an email he received from Mr. Gilliar in May 2017 proposed a possible equity arrangement for the five partners. The email references “10 held by H for the big guy?” Mr. Bobulinski said the “H” referred to Hunter Biden and the “big guy” was Joe Biden. Mr. Gilliar didn’t respond to a request for comment, nor did the other partner in the venture, Mr. Walker."

That means that even if Joe wasn't directly involved, Hunter was still holding 10% for him. 

So no, John, this isn't going away!



 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    4 years ago
Do you have the article you are referring to?   I do! It details what each of Hunter's business partners said about those events. It doesn't really draw conclusions!

Here - from the article, which I doubt you have:

Vic, I seeded the article last night. Joe Biden had no involvement in the deal, and the deal made no money for anyone. And the deal was set up in 2017, after Joe Biden left office. 

What is his crime?  We dont have any more time this cycle for right wing fantasies. You want the American voter to reject Joe Biden based on WHAT ?  Please , by all means fucking tell us why we need to put the worst president in American history back in for four more years based on something something Biden something something China. 

The   venture —set up in 2017 after Mr. Biden left the vice presidency and before his presidential campaign—never received proposed funds from the Chinese company or completed any deals ,  according to people familiar with the matter. Corporate records reviewed by The Wall Street Journal show no role for Joe Biden

========================================================================

Ek75yADW0AE6kaT?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.1.2  Jasper2529  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    4 years ago
That means that even if Joe wasn't directly involved, Hunter was still holding 10% for him. 

And "Big Guy Joe" carefully worded this during the debate. He said, "I didn't have any [direct/personal] dealings with foreign countries".

It probably took him days to memorize that sentence!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.1    4 years ago
Vic, I seeded the article last night.

I saw it John. You did not seed the actual article.


What is his crime? 

Did I charge him with one? 

First - he told us that he had no knowledge of Hunter's business dealings - Would you consider that a lie?

Second - it appears he got a kickback from the Bank of China deal via Hunter - Does it not?

Third - Last night he said Hunter never did anything that was unethical - Is that true?


As for that atrocious NPR statement - They are funded with tax payer money, btw - a few months ago they ran a "story" involving verifiably false information about President Trump's comments regarding a shooting in Kenosha, Wisconsin. along with a glowing review of the book: " In Defense of Looting." 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.3    4 years ago

I posted the actual article as the first comment. 

The Wall St, Journal says that they reviewed the corporate documents of that group and Biden had no role.  End of story. 

On top of that the damn thing took place when Biden was OUT OF OFFICE !

Now you are whining that maybe Biden knew he would run again so he should not have done whatever it is you think he did. 

Donald Trump has lied thousands of times, he has cheated on his taxes, he is under federal investigation for fraud as we speak, and yet you want Americans to believe that somehow what Joe Biden did in regard to a business proposal made by other people after he left office disqualifies him for the presidency and Trump should be kept.  It is absolute insanity. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.1.2    4 years ago
It probably took him days to memorize that sentence!

He had since Sunday, down in the basement!

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
4.1.6  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.4    4 years ago
The Wall St, Journal says that they reviewed the corporate documents of that group and Biden had no role.

On paper..............did Hunter tell the folks that "the big guy" would get the 10% reserve and pull the wool over their eyes as he had no intention of TBG getting any money?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.4    4 years ago
I posted the actual article as the first comment. 

Your seed is tied to a different site, which summarized the article:




Now you are whining that maybe Biden knew he would run again so he should not have done whatever it is you think he did. 

Do you think that China might have suspected he'd run again?


Donald Trump has lied thousands of times

Prove it with all the actual quotes.


he has cheated on his taxes

Prove it with real evidence


he is under federal investigation for fraud as we speak

He has been under numerous investigations since he was elected into office. Where are the indictments?


and yet you want Americans to believe that somehow what Joe Biden did in regard to a business proposal made by other people after he left office disqualifies him for the presidency and Trump should be kept.

Actually John, I think the fact that Joe is mentally unfit for the job and is a proxy for the radical left is what disqualifies him.


 It is absolute insanity.

What the left is trying to do to America is what is insane

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.1.8  Jasper2529  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.5    4 years ago

Yep, and he couldn't get all of his lies straight in that time ... including, but not limited to:

  • The US was friends with Hitler.
  • He never said that he would ban fracking.
  • Nobody lost their healthcare plans (4.7 million Americans lost their plans).
  • Trump did "nothing" about Covid-19.
  • He never said (or implied) that Trump was a xenophobe or racist for shutting our borders due to Covid-19. 
 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.1.8    4 years ago

Now that's what I call FACT CHECKING!

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.1.10  Jasper2529  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.9    4 years ago

Thank you, sir. I have a good number of progressive/Socialist friends and family who deceptively insist that they're "moderate, social Democrats/Independents", so I've learned to fact check the lies and BS that MSM feeds them. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.1.8    4 years ago

"President Trump yet again broke the fact-check meter at the second presidential debate, while Democratic nominee Joe Biden made relatively few gaffes,"   The Washington Post 's fact-check team concluded   after Thursday's final presidential debate of 2020.

"The facts took a hit right out of the gate Thursday night,"   The Associated Press   concurred . "Trump's first line of the night, about COVID-19 deaths, was false," and he "misrepresented the reality of the pandemic in myriad and familiar ways, insisting against obvious reality that the pandemic is drawing to a close." At times, Biden "was selective on the coronavirus and other matters, at one point stating that no one under ObamaCare lost private health coverage,"   AP   adds. "Millions did."

"Biden was far from perfect — he had some false claims, he had some misleading claims, and some claims lacking in context," CNN fact-checker Daniel Dale said, pointing specifically to anti-fracking comments Biden made during the Democratic primary. "But again, it's just apples and oranges, no comparison in the frequency and generally the magnitude of the false claims from these two candidates."

Trump "is running for re-election on a strategy of serial, deliberate dishonesty, and it's getting worse," Dale said. "The version of Trump we got in this debate is worse from a fact-check perspective, from an honestly perspective, than the Trump we got in that first debate, even though he was more belligerent in the first debate. His rallies are also getting more dishonest. And it's just a bombardment. I mean, literally his first sentence tonight was inaccurate — I don't know if I've ever seen that before in a debate."

"I think the most important piece of dishonestly from either candidate is Trump's repeated insistence that the pandemic is going away or rounding some sort of turn or corner," Dale added. "This is getting worse and worse and the president keeps saying it's getting better and it's about to vanish." Watch CNN's super-cut of Dale tackling false claims — and incidentally get a recap of some of the debate's key moments — below.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.12  JohnRussell  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.1.10    4 years ago

Jasper, Trump lied more last night than he lied in the first debate, and the first debate was a debacle. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.1.13  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.12    4 years ago
Jasper, Trump lied more last night than he lied in the first debate, and the first debate was a debacle. 

John, perhaps you should list what you think are Trump's "lies" from last night so I know what you think they are. I listed 5 of Biden's many undisputed lies from last night in my comment 4.1.8 . Should I wait for your reply?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.14  JohnRussell  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.1.13    4 years ago

There are many news articles specifically about Trump's lies last night. Read some of those. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.1.15  Jasper2529  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.1.10    4 years ago

Here's a 6th Biden lie:

Biden said that Trump was the one who put illegal alien children in cages. When Trump asked, "Who built those cages, Joe?" Biden lowered his head and didn't answer.

We all remember the photos of Obama/Biden putting those children in cages. We also remember how the MSM LIED when they posted those (2014?) photos and said they were from the Trump Administration.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
4.1.16  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    4 years ago
What you really mean is the AG has dispensed with indicting anyone for "unmasking." 

What YOU really mean is that the investigation found NO wrongdoing, US Attorney John Bash retired from the DOJ and even though Fox insisted that the investigation would continue the AG quietly ended the 'probe'.

Oh and BTW, you failed to post a link to the article you 'quoted'. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
4.1.17  Dulay  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.1.13    4 years ago

Well gee Jasper, looking out my window at the birds @ my feeders proves to me that when Trump said that 'windmills kill all the birds', he was LYING. Want to start there? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.18  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @4.1.16    4 years ago
What YOU really mean is that the investigation found NO wrongdoing

I mean they declined to press charges. I don't know about any wrongdoing, but ya AG William Barr crossed the "Unmasking" part of the list.


Oh and BTW, you failed to post a link to the article you 'quoted'. 

You mean John's article?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.1.19  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.14    4 years ago

In other words, you can't answer comment 4.1.13 .  Just as I expected. Thanks, John!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
4.1.20  Dulay  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.1.13    4 years ago
I listed 5 of Biden's many undisputed lies from last night in my comment 4.1.8 .

Well off the top of my head I can dispute at least one of your 'undisputed lies' because it was debunked right here @ NT last month. 

Biden's comment on Trump's xenophobia was NOT in reference to the shutting our borders due to Covid-19 and Biden stated as much in the debate. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.1.21  Jasper2529  replied to  Dulay @4.1.17    4 years ago
Well gee Jasper, looking out my window at the birds @ my feeders proves to me that when Trump said that 'windmills kill all the birds', he was LYING. Want to start there? 

Jet engines and nasty little children kill birds, too, Dulay. Your point?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.22  Sean Treacy  replied to  Dulay @4.1.20    4 years ago
can dispute at least one of your 'undisputed lies' because it was debunked right here @ NT last month. 

No you can't.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.23  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.7    4 years ago
he has cheated on his taxes
Prove it with real evidence

President  Trump  participated  in  dubious  tax   schemes  during  the  1990s, including instances of outright fraud, that greatly increased  the  fortune he received from his parents, an investigation by  The   New   York   Times  has found.

Mr.   Trump   won   the   presidency proclaiming himself a self-made billionaire, and he has long insisted that his father,   the   legendary   New   York   City builder Fred C.   Trump , provided almost no financial help.

But   The   Times ’s investigation, based on a vast trove of confidential   tax   returns and financial records, reveals that Mr.   Trump   received   the   equivalent today of at least $413 million from his father’s real estate empire, starting when he was a toddler and continuing to this day.

Much of this money came to Mr.   Trump   because he helped his parents dodge   taxes . He and his siblings set up a sham corporation to disguise millions of dollars   in   gifts from their parents, records and interviews show. Records indicate that Mr.   Trump   helped his father take improper   tax   deductions worth millions more. He also helped formulate a strategy to undervalue his parents’ real estate holdings by hundreds of millions of dollars on   tax   returns, sharply reducing   the   tax   bill when those properties were transferred to him and his siblings.

These maneuvers met with little resistance from   the   Internal Revenue Service,   The   Times   found.   The   president’s parents, Fred and Mary   Trump , transferred well over $1 billion   in   wealth to their children, which could have produced a   tax   bill of at least $550 million under   the   55 percent   tax   rate then imposed on gifts and inheritances.

The   Trumps   paid a total of $52.2 million, or about 5 percent,   tax   records show.

The   president declined repeated requests over several weeks to comment for this article. But a lawyer for Mr.   Trump , Charles J. Harder, provided a written statement on Monday, one day after   The   Times   sent a detailed description of its findings. “ The   New   York   Times ’s allegations of fraud and   tax   evasion are 100 percent false, and highly defamatory,” Mr. Harder said. “There was no fraud or   tax   evasion by anyone.   The   facts upon which   The   Times   bases its false allegations are extremely inaccurate.”

Mr. Harder sought to distance Mr.   Trump   from   the   tax   strategies used by his family, saying   the   president had delegated those tasks to relatives and   tax   professionals. “President   Trump   had virtually no involvement whatsoever with these matters,” he said. “ The   affairs were handled by other   Trump   family members who were not experts themselves and therefore relied entirely upon   the   aforementioned licensed professionals to ensure full compliance with   the   law.”

[Read   the   full statement   ]

The   president’s brother, Robert   Trump , issued a statement on behalf of   the   Trump   family:

“Our dear father, Fred C.   Trump , passed away   in   June 1999. Our beloved mother, Mary Anne   Trump , passed away   in   August 2000. All appropriate gift and estate   tax   returns were filed, and   the   required   taxes   were paid. Our father’s estate was closed   in   2001 by both   the   Internal Revenue Service and   the   New   York   State   tax   authorities, and our mother’s estate was closed   in   2004. Our family has no other comment on these matters that happened some 20 years ago, and would appreciate your respecting   the   privacy of our deceased parents, may God rest their souls.”

The   Times ’s findings raise   new   questions about Mr.   Trump’s   refusal to release his income   tax   returns, breaking with decades of practice by past presidents. According to   tax   experts, it is unlikely that Mr.   Trump   would be vulnerable to criminal prosecution for helping his parents evade   taxes , because   the   acts happened too long ago and are past   the   statute of limitations. There is no   time   limit, however, on civil fines for   tax   fraud.

The   findings are based on interviews with Fred   Trump’s   former employees and advisers and more than 100,000 pages of documents describing   the   inner workings and immense profitability of his empire. They include documents culled from public sources — mortgages and deeds, probate records, financial disclosure reports, regulatory records and civil court files.

The   investigation also draws on tens of thousands of pages of confidential records — bank statements, financial audits, accounting ledgers, cash disbursement reports, invoices and canceled checks. Most notably,   the   documents include more than 200   tax   returns from Fred   Trump , his companies and various   Trump   partnerships and trusts. While   the   records do not include   the   president’s personal   tax   returns and reveal little about his recent business dealings at home and abroad, dozens of corporate, partnership and trust   tax   returns offer   the   first public accounting of   the   income he received for decades from various family enterprises.

What emerges from this body of evidence is a financial biography of   the   45th president fundamentally at odds with   the   story Mr.   Trump   has sold   in   his books, his TV shows and his political life.   In   Mr.   Trump’s   version of how he got rich, he was   the   master dealmaker who broke free of his father’s “tiny” outer-borough operation and parlayed a single $1 million loan from his father (“I had to pay him back with interest!”) into a $10 billion empire that would slap   the   Trump   name on hotels, high-rises, casinos, airlines and golf courses   the   world over.   In   Mr.   Trump’s   version, it was always his guts and gumption that overcame setbacks. Fred   Trump   was simply a cheerleader.

“I built what I built myself,” Mr.   Trump   has said, a narrative that was long amplified by often-credulous coverage from news organizations, including   The   Times .

Certainly a handful of journalists and biographers, notably Wayne Barrett, Gwenda Blair, David Cay Johnston and Timothy L. O’Brien, have challenged this story, especially   the   claim of being worth $10 billion. They described how Mr.   Trump   piggybacked off his father’s banking connections to gain a foothold   in   Manhattan real estate. They poked holes   in   his go-to talking point about   the   $1 million loan, citing evidence that he actually got $14 million. They told how Fred   Trump   once helped his son make a bond payment on an Atlantic City casino by buying $3.5 million   in   casino chips.

But   The   Times ’s investigation of   the   Trump   family’s finances is unprecedented   in   scope and precision, offering   the   first comprehensive look at   the   inherited fortune and   tax   dodges that guaranteed Donald J.   Trump   a gilded life.   The   reporting makes clear that   in   every era of Mr.   Trump’s   life, his finances were deeply intertwined with, and dependent on, his father’s wealth.

By age 3, Mr.   Trump   was earning $200,000 a year   in   today’s dollars from his father’s empire. He was a millionaire by age 8. By   the   time   he was 17, his father had given him part ownership of a 52-unit apartment building. Soon after Mr.   Trump   graduated from college, he was receiving   the   equivalent of $1 million a year from his father.   The   money increased with   the   years, to more than $5 million annually   in   his 40s and 50s.

Fred   Trump’s   real estate empire was not just scores of apartment buildings. It was also a mountain of cash, tens of millions of dollars   in   profits building up inside his businesses, banking records show.   In   one six-year span, from 1988 through 1993, Fred   Trump   reported $109.7 million   in   total income, now equivalent to $210.7 million. It was not unusual for tens of millions   in   Treasury bills and certificates of deposit to flow through his personal bank accounts each month.

Fred   Trump   was relentless and creative   in   finding ways to channel this wealth to his children. He made Donald not just his salaried employee but also his property manager, landlord, banker and consultant. He gave him loan after loan, many never repaid. He provided money for his car, money for his employees, money to buy stocks, money for his first Manhattan offices and money to renovate those offices. He gave him three trust funds. He gave him shares   in   multiple partnerships. He gave him $10,000 Christmas checks. He gave him laundry revenue from his buildings.

Much of his giving was structured to sidestep gift and inheritance   taxes   using methods   tax   experts described to   The   Times   as improper or possibly illegal. Although Fred   Trump   became wealthy with help from federal housing subsidies, he insisted that it was manifestly unfair for   the   government to   tax   his fortune as it passed to his children. When he was   in   his 80s and beginning to slide into dementia, evading gift and estate   taxes   became a family affair, with Donald   Trump   playing a crucial role, interviews and newly obtained documents show.

The   line between legal   tax   avoidance and illegal   tax   evasion is often murky, and it is constantly being stretched by inventive   tax   lawyers. There is no shortage of clever   tax   avoidance tricks that have been blessed by either   the   courts or   the   I.R.S. itself.   The   richest Americans almost never pay anything close to full freight. But   tax   experts briefed on   The   Times ’s findings said   the   Trumps   appeared to have done more than exploit legal loopholes. They said   the   conduct described here represented a pattern of deception and obfuscation, particularly about   the   value of Fred   Trump’s   real estate, that repeatedly prevented   the   I.R.S. from taxing large transfers of wealth to his children.

The   theme I see here through all of this is valuations: They play around with valuations   in   extreme ways,” said Lee-Ford Tritt, a University of Florida law professor and a leading expert   in   gift and estate   tax   law. “There are dramatic fluctuations depending on their purpose.”

The   manipulation of values to evade   taxes   was central to one of   the   most important financial events   in   Donald   Trump’s   life.   In   an episode never before revealed, Mr.   Trump   and his siblings gained ownership of most of their father’s empire on Nov. 22, 1997, a year and a half before Fred   Trump’s   death. Critical to   the   complex transaction was   the   value put on   the   real estate.   The   lower its value,   the   lower   the   gift   taxes .   The   Trumps   dodged hundreds of millions   in   gift   taxes   by submitting   tax   returns that grossly undervalued   the   properties, claiming they were worth just $41.4 million.

The   same set of buildings would be sold off over   the   next decade for more than 16   times   that amount.

The   most overt fraud was All County Building Supply & Maintenance, a company formed by   the   Trump   family   in   1992. All County’s ostensible purpose was to be   the   purchasing agent for Fred   Trump’s   buildings, buying everything from boilers to cleaning supplies. It did no such thing, records and interviews show. Instead All County siphoned millions of dollars from Fred   Trump’s   empire by simply marking up purchases already made by his employees. Those millions, effectively untaxed gifts, then flowed to All County’s owners — Donald   Trump , his siblings and a cousin. Fred   Trump   then used   the   padded All County receipts to justify bigger rent increases for thousands of tenants.

All told,   The   Times   documented 295 streams of revenue that Fred   Trump   created over five decades to enrich his son.   In   most cases his four other children benefited equally. But over   time , as Donald   Trump   careened from one financial disaster to   the   next, his father found ways to give him substantially more money, records show. Even so,   in   1990, according to previously secret depositions, Mr.   Trump   tried to have his father’s will rewritten   in   a way that Fred   Trump , alarmed and angered, feared could result   in   his empire’s being used to bail out his son’s failing businesses.

Of course,   the   story of how Donald   Trump   got rich cannot be reduced to handouts from his father. Before he became president, his singular achievement was building   the   brand of Donald J.   Trump , Self-Made Billionaire, a brand so potent it generated hundreds of millions of dollars   in   revenue through TV shows, books and licensing deals.

Constructing that image required more than Fred   Trump’s   money. Just as important were his son’s preternatural marketing skills and always-be-closing competitive hustle. While Fred   Trump   helped finance   the   accouterments of wealth, Donald   Trump , master self-promoter, spun them into a seductive narrative. Fred   Trump’s   money, for example, helped build   Trump   Tower,   the   talisman of privilege that established his son as a major player   in   New   York . But Donald   Trump   recognized and exploited   the   iconic power of   Trump   Tower as a primary stage for both “ The   Apprentice” and his presidential campaign.

The   biggest payday he ever got from his father came long after Fred   Trump’s   death. It happened quietly, without   the   usual Trumpian news conference, on May 4, 2004, when Mr.   Trump   and his siblings sold off   the   empire their father had spent 70 years assembling with   the   dream that it would never leave his family.

Donald   Trump’s   cut: $177.3 million, or $236.2 million   in   today’s dollars.

‘One-Man Building Show’

Early experience, cultivated connections and a wave of federal housing subsidies helped Fred   Trump   lay   the   foundation of his son’s wealth.

Before he turned 20, Fred   Trump   had already built and sold his first home. At age 35, he was building hundreds of houses a year   in   Brooklyn and Queens. By 45, he was building some of   the   biggest apartment complexes   in   the   country.

Aside from an astonishing work ethic — “Sleeping is a waste of   time ,” he liked to say —   the   growth reflected his shrewd application of mass-production techniques.   The   Brooklyn Daily Eagle called him “ the   Henry Ford of   the   home-building industry.” He would erect scaffolding a city block long so his masons, sometimes working a second shift under floodlights, could throw up a dozen rowhouses   in   a week. They sold for about $115,000   in   today’s dollars.

By 1940, American Builder magazine was taking notice, devoting a spread to Fred   Trump   under   the   headline “Biggest One-Man Building Show.”   The   article described a swaggering lone-wolf character who paid for everything — wages, supplies, land — from a thick wad of cash he carried at all   times , and whose only help was a secretary answering   the   phone   in   an office barely bigger than a parking space. “He is his own purchasing agent, cashier, paymaster, building superintendent, construction engineer and sales director,”   the   article said.

It wasn’t that simple. Fred   Trump   had also spent years ingratiating himself with Brooklyn’s Democratic machine, giving money, doing favors and making   the   sort of friends (like Abraham D. Beame, a future mayor) who could make life easier for a developer. He had also assembled a phalanx of plugged- in   real estate lawyers, property appraisers and   tax   accountants who protected his interests.

All these traits — deep experience, nimbleness, connections, a relentless focus on   the   efficient construction of homes for   the   middle class — positioned him perfectly to ride a growing wave of federal spending on housing.   The   wave took shape with   the   New   Deal, grew during   the   World War II rush to build military housing and crested with   the   postwar imperative to provide homes for returning G.I.s. Fred   Trump   would become a millionaire many   times   over by making himself one of   the   nation’s largest recipients of cheap government-backed building loans, according to Gwenda Blair’s book “ The   Trumps : Three Generations of Builders and a President.”

Those same loans became   the   wellspring of Donald   Trump’s   wealth.   In   the   late 1940s, Fred   Trump   obtained roughly $26 million   in   federal loans to build two of his largest developments, Beach Haven Apartments, near Coney Island, Brooklyn, and Shore Haven Apartments, a few miles away. Then he set about making his children his landlords.

As ground lease payments fattened his children’s trusts, Fred   Trump   embarked on a far bigger transfer of wealth. Records obtained by   The   Times   reveal how he began to build or buy apartment buildings   in   Brooklyn and Queens and then gradually, without public trace, transfer ownership to his children through a web of partnerships and corporations.   In   all, Fred   Trump   put up nearly $13 million   in   cash and mortgage debt to create a mini-empire within his empire — eight buildings with 1,032 apartments — that he would transfer to his children.

The   handover began just before Donald   Trump’s   16th birthday. On June 1, 1962, Fred   Trump   transferred a plot of land   in   Queens to a newly created corporation. While he would be its president, his children would be its owners, records show. Then he constructed a 52-unit building called Clyde Hall.

It was easy money for   the   Trump   children. Their father took care of everything. He bought   the   land, built   the   apartments and obtained   the   mortgages. His employees managed   the   building.   The   profits, meanwhile, went to his children. By   the   early 1970s, Fred   Trump   would execute similar transfers of   the   other seven buildings.

For Donald   Trump , this meant a rapidly growing   new   source of income. When he was   in   high school, his cut of   the   profits was about $17,000 a year   in   today’s dollars. His share exceeded $300,000 a year soon after he graduated from college.

How Fred   Trump   transferred 1,032 apartments to his children without incurring hundreds of thousands of dollars   in   gift   taxes   is unclear. A review of property records for   the   eight buildings turned up no evidence that his children bought them outright. Financial records obtained by   The   Times   reveal only that all of   the   shares   in   the   partnerships and corporations set up to create   the   mini-empire shifted at some point from Fred   Trump   to his children. Yet his   tax   returns show he paid no gift   taxes   on seven of   the   buildings, and only a few thousand dollars on   the   eighth.

That building, Sunnyside Towers, a 158-unit property   in   Queens, illustrates Fred   Trump’s   catch-me-if-you-can approach with   the   I.R.S., which had repeatedly cited him for underpaying   taxes   in   the   1950s and 1960s.

Sunnyside was bought for $2.5 million   in   1968 by Midland Associates, a partnership Fred   Trump   formed with his children for   the   transaction.   In   his 1969   tax   return, he reported giving each child 15 percent of Midland Associates. Based on   the   amount of cash put up to buy Sunnyside,   the   value of this gift should have been $93,750. Instead, he declared a gift of only $6,516.

Donald   Trump   went to work for his father after graduating from   the   University of Pennsylvania   in   1968. His father made him vice president of dozens of companies. This was also   the   moment Fred   Trump   telegraphed what had become painfully obvious to his family and employees: He did not consider his eldest son, Fred   Trump   Jr., a viable heir apparent.

Fred Jr., seven and a half years older than Donald, had also worked for his father after college. It did not go well, relatives and former employees said   in   interviews. Fred   Trump   openly ridiculed him for being too nice, too soft, too lazy, too fond of drink. He frowned on his interests   in   flying and music, could not fathom why he cared so little for   the   family business. Donald, witness to his father’s deepening disappointment, fashioned himself Fred Jr.’s opposite —   the   brash tough guy with a killer instinct. His reward was to inherit his father’s dynastic dreams.

Fred   Trump   began taking steps that enriched Donald alone, introducing him to   the   charms of building with cheap government loans.   In   1972, father and son formed a partnership to build a high-rise for   the   elderly   in   East Orange, N.J. Thanks to government subsidies,   the   partnership got a nearly interest-free $7.8 million loan that covered 90 percent of construction costs. Fred   Trump   paid   the   rest.

But his son received most of   the   financial benefits, records show. On top of profit distributions and consulting fees, Donald   Trump   was paid to manage   the   building, though Fred   Trump’s   employees handled day-to-day management. He also pocketed what tenants paid to rent air-conditioners. By 1975, Donald   Trump’s   take from   the   building was today’s equivalent of nearly $305,000 a year.

Fred   Trump   also gave his son an extra boost through his investment,   in   the   early 1970s,   in   the   sprawling Starrett City development   in   Brooklyn,   the   largest federally subsidized housing project   in   the   nation.   The   investment, which promised to generate huge   tax   write-offs, was tailor-made for Fred   Trump ; he would use Starrett City’s losses to avoid   taxes   on profits from his empire.

Fred   Trump   invested $5 million. A separate partnership established for his children invested $1 million more, showering   tax   breaks on   the   Trump   children for decades to come. They helped Donald   Trump   avoid paying any federal income   taxes   at all   in   1978 and 1979. But Fred   Trump   also deputized him to sell a sliver of his Starrett City shares, a sweetheart deal that generated today’s equivalent of more than $1 million   in   “consulting fees.”

The   money from consulting and management fees, ground leases,   the   mini-empire and his salary all combined to make Donald   Trump   indisputably wealthy years before he sold his first Manhattan apartment. By 1975, when he was 29, he had collected nearly $9 million   in   today’s dollars from his father,   The   Times   found.

Wealthy, yes. But a far cry from   the   image father and son craved for Donald   Trump .

The   Silent Partner

Fred   Trump   would play a crucial role   in   building and carefully maintaining   the   myth of Donald J.   Trump , Self-Made Billionaire.

“He is tall, lean and blond, with dazzling white teeth, and he looks ever so much like Robert Redford. He rides around town   in   a chauffeured silver Cadillac with his initials, DJT, on   the   plates. He dates slinky fashion models, belongs to   the   most elegant clubs and, at only 30 years of age, estimates that he is worth ‘more than $200 million.’”

So began a Nov. 1, 1976, article   in   The   Times , one of   the   first major profiles of Donald   Trump   and a cornerstone of decades of mythmaking about his wealth. How could he claim to be worth more than $200 million when, as he divulged years later to casino regulators, his 1976 taxable income was $24,594? Donald   Trump   simply appropriated his father’s entire empire as his own.

In   the   chauffeured Cadillac, Donald   Trump   took   The   Times ’s reporter on a tour of what he called his “jobs.” He told her about   the   Manhattan hotel he planned to convert into a Grand Hyatt (his father guaranteed   the   construction loan), and   the   Hudson River railroad yards he planned to develop ( the   rights were purchased by his father’s company). He showed her “our philanthropic endeavor,”   the   high-rise for   the   elderly   in   East Orange (bankrolled by his father), and an apartment complex on Staten Island (owned by his father), and their “flagship,”   Trump   Village,   in   Brooklyn (owned by his father), and finally Beach Haven Apartments (owned by his father). Even   the   Cadillac was leased by his father.

“So far,” he boasted, “I’ve never made a bad deal.”

It was a spectacular con, right down to   the   priceless moment when Mr.   Trump   confessed that he was “publicity shy.” By claiming his father’s wealth as his own, Donald   Trump   transformed his place   in   the   world. A brash 30-year-old playboy worth more than $200 million proved irresistible to   New   York   City’s bankers, politicians and journalists.

Yet for all   the   spin about cutting his own path   in   Manhattan, Donald   Trump   was increasingly dependent on his father. Weeks after   The   Times ’s profile ran, Fred   Trump   set up still more trusts for his children, seeding each with today’s equivalent of $4.3 million. Even into   the   early 1980s, when he was already proclaiming himself one of America’s richest men, Donald   Trump   remained on his father’s payroll, drawing an annual salary of $260,000   in   today’s dollars.

Meanwhile, Fred   Trump   and his companies also began extending large loans and lines of credit to Donald   Trump . Those loans dwarfed what   the   other   Trumps   got,   the   flow so constant at   times   that it was as if Donald   Trump   had his own Money Store. Consider 1979, when he borrowed $1.5 million   in   January, $65,000   in   February, $122,000   in   March, $150,000   in   April, $192,000   in   May, $226,000   in   June, $2.4 million   in   July and $40,000   in   August, according to records filed with   New   Jersey casino regulators.

In   theory,   the   money had to be repaid.   In   practice, records show, many of   the   loans were more like gifts. Some were interest-free and had no repayment schedule. Even when loans charged interest, Donald   Trump   frequently skipped payments.

This previously unreported flood of loans highlights a clear pattern to Fred   Trump’s   largess. When Donald   Trump   began expensive   new   projects, his father increased his help.   In   the   late 1970s, when Donald   Trump   was converting   the   old Commodore Hotel into a Grand Hyatt, his father stepped up with a spigot of loans. Fred   Trump   did   the   same with   Trump   Tower   in   the   early 1980s.

In   the   mid-1980s, as Donald   Trump   made his first forays into Atlantic City, Fred   Trump   devised a plan that sharply increased   the   flow of money to his son.

The   plan involved   the   mini-empire —   the   eight buildings Fred   Trump   had transferred to his children. He converted seven of them into cooperatives, and helped his children convert   the   eighth. That meant inviting tenants to buy their apartments, generating a three-way windfall for Donald   Trump   and his siblings: from selling units, from renting unsold units and from collecting mortgage payments.

In   1982, Donald   Trump   made today’s equivalent of about $380,000 from   the   eight buildings. As   the   conversions continued and Fred   Trump’s   employees sold off more units, his son’s share of profits jumped, records show. By 1987, with   the   conversions completed, his son was making today’s equivalent of $4.5 million a year off   the   eight buildings.

Fred   Trump   made one other structural change to his empire that produced a big   new   source of revenue for Donald   Trump   and his siblings. He made them his bankers.

The   Times   could find no evidence that   the   Trump   children had to come up with money of their own to buy their father’s mortgages. Most were purchased from Fred   Trump’s   banks by trusts and partnerships that he set up and seeded with money.

Co-op sales, mortgage payments, ground leases — Fred   Trump   was a master at finding ways to enrich his children   in   general and Donald   Trump   in   particular. Some ways were like slow-moving creeks. Others were rushing streams. A few were geysers. But as   the   decades passed they all joined into one mighty river of money. By 1990,   The   Times   found, Fred   Trump ,   the   ultimate silent partner, had quietly transferred today’s equivalent of at least $46.2 million to his son.

Donald   Trump   took on a mien of invincibility.   The   stock market crashed   in   1987 and   the   economy cratered. But he doubled down thanks   in   part to Fred   Trump’s   banks, which eagerly extended credit to   the   young   Trump   princeling. He bought   the   Plaza Hotel   in   1988 for $407.5 million. He bought Eastern Airlines   in   1989 for $365 million and called it   Trump   Shuttle. His   newest   casino,   the   Trump   Taj Mahal, would need at least $1 million a day just to cover its debt.

The   skeptics who questioned   the   wisdom of this debt-fueled spending spree were drowned out by one magazine cover after another marveling at someone so young taking such breathtaking risks. But whatever Donald   Trump   was gambling, not for one second was he at risk of losing out on a lifetime of frictionless, effortless wealth. Fred   Trump   had that bet covered.

The   Safety Net Deploys

Bailouts, collateral, cash on hand — Fred   Trump   was prepared, and was not about to let bad bets sink his son.

As   the   1980s ended, Donald   Trump’s   big bets began to go bust.   Trump   Shuttle was failing to make loan payments within 15 months.   The   Plaza, drowning   in   debt, was bankrupt   in   four years. His Atlantic City casinos, also drowning   in   debt, tumbled one by one into bankruptcy.

What didn’t fail was   the   Trump   safety net. Just as Donald   Trump’s   finances were crumbling, family partnerships and companies dramatically increased distributions to him and his siblings. Between 1989 and 1992,   tax   records show, four entities created by Fred   Trump   to support his children paid Donald   Trump   today’s equivalent of $8.3 million.

Fred   Trump’s   generosity also provided a crucial backstop when his son pleaded with bankers   in   1990 for an emergency line of credit. With so many of his projects losing money, Donald   Trump   had few viable assets of his own making to pledge as collateral. What has never been publicly known is that he used his stakes   in   the   mini-empire and   the   high-rise for   the   elderly   in   East Orange as collateral to help secure a $65 million loan.

Tax   records also reveal that at   the   peak of Mr.   Trump’s   financial distress, his father extracted extraordinary sums from his empire.   In   1990, Fred   Trump’s   income exploded to $49,638,928 — several   times   what he paid himself   in   other years   in   that era.

Fred   Trump , former employees say, detested taking unnecessary distributions from his companies because he would have to pay income   taxes   on them. So why would a penny-pinching,   tax -hating 85-year-old   in   the   twilight of his career abruptly pull so much money out of his cherished properties, incurring a   tax   bill of $12.2 million?

The   Times   found no evidence that Fred   Trump   made any significant debt payments or charitable donations.   The   frugality he brought to business carried over to   the   rest of his life. According to ledgers of his personal spending, he spent a grand total of $8,562   in   1991 and 1992 on travel and entertainment. His extravagances, such as they were, consisted of buying his wife   the   odd gift from Antonovich Furs or hosting family celebrations at   the   Peter Luger Steak House   in   Brooklyn. His home on Midland Parkway   in   Jamaica Estates, Queens, built with unfussy brick like so many of his apartment buildings, had little to distinguish it from neighboring houses beyond   the   white columns and crest framing   the   front door.

There are, however, indications that he wanted plenty of cash on hand to bail out his son if need be.

Such was   the   case with   the   rescue mission at his son’s   Trump’s   Castle casino. Donald   Trump   had wildly overspent on renovations, leaving   the   property dangerously low on operating cash. Sure enough, neither   Trump’s   Castle nor its owner had   the   necessary funds to make an $18.4 million bond payment due   in   December 1990.

On Dec. 17, 1990, Fred   Trump   dispatched Howard Snyder, a trusted bookkeeper, to Atlantic City with a $3.35 million check. Mr. Snyder bought $3.35 million worth of casino chips and left without placing a bet. Apparently, even this infusion wasn’t sufficient, because that same day Fred   Trump   wrote a second check to   Trump’s   Castle, for $150,000, bank records show.

With this ruse — it was an illegal $3.5 million loan under   New   Jersey gaming laws, resulting   in   a $65,000 civil penalty — Donald   Trump   narrowly avoided defaulting on his bonds.

Birds of a Feather

Both   the   son and   the   father were masters of manipulating   the   value of their assets, making them appear worth a lot or a little depending on their needs.

As   the   chip episode demonstrated, father and son were of one mind about rules and regulations, viewing them as annoyances to be finessed or, when necessary, ignored. As described by family members and associates   in   interviews and sworn testimony, theirs was an intimate, endless confederacy sealed by blood, shared secrets and a Hobbesian view of what it took to dominate and win. They talked almost daily and saw each other most weekends. Donald   Trump   sat at his father’s right hand at family meals and participated   in   his father’s monthly strategy sessions with his closest advisers. Fred   Trump   was a silent, watchful presence at many of Donald   Trump’s   news conferences.

“I probably knew my father as well or better than anybody,” Donald   Trump   said   in   a 2000 deposition.

They were both fluent   in   the   language of half-truths and lies, interviews and records show. They both delighted   in   transgressing without getting caught. They were both wizards at manipulating   the   value of their assets, making them appear worth a lot or a little depending on their needs.

Those talents came   in   handy when Fred   Trump   Jr. died, on Sept. 26, 1981, at age 42 from complications of alcoholism, leaving a son and a daughter.   The   executors of his estate were his father and his brother Donald.

Fred   Trump   Jr.’s largest asset was his stake   in   seven of   the   eight buildings his father had transferred to his children.   The   Trumps   would claim that those properties were worth $90.4 million when they finished converting them to cooperatives within a few years of his death. At that value, his stake could have generated an estate   tax   bill of nearly $10 million.

But   the   tax   return signed by Donald   Trump   and his father claimed that Fred   Trump   Jr.’s estate owed just $737,861. This result was achieved by lowballing all seven buildings. Instead of valuing them at $90.4 million, Fred and Donald   Trump   submitted appraisals putting them at $13.2 million.

Emblematic of their audacity was Park Briar, a 150-unit building   in   Queens. As it happened, 18 days before Fred   Trump   Jr.’s death,   the   Trump   siblings had submitted Park Briar’s co-op conversion plan, stating under oath that   the   building was worth $17.1 million. Yet as Fred   Trump   Jr.’s executors, Donald   Trump   and his father claimed on   the   tax   return that Park Briar was worth $2.9 million when Fred   Trump   Jr. died.

This fantastical claim — that Park Briar should be taxed as if its value had fallen 83 percent   in   18 days — slid past   the   I.R.S. with barely a protest. An auditor insisted   the   value should be increased by $100,000, to $3 million.

During   the   1980s, Donald   Trump   became notorious for leaking word that he was taking positions   in   stocks, hinting of a possible takeover, and then either selling on   the   run-up or trying to extract lucrative concessions from   the   target company to make him go away. It was a form of stock manipulation with an unsavory label: “greenmailing.”   The   Times   unearthed evidence that Mr.   Trump   enlisted his father as his greenmailing wingman.

On Jan. 26, 1989, Fred   Trump   bought 8,600 shares of   Time   Inc. for $934,854, his   tax   returns show. Seven days later, Dan Dorfman, a financial columnist known to be chatty with Donald   Trump , broke   the   news that   the   younger   Trump   had “taken a sizable stake”   in   Time . Sure enough,   Time’s   shares jumped, allowing Fred   Trump   to make a $41,614 profit   in   two weeks.

Later that year, Fred   Trump   bought $5 million worth of American Airlines stock. Based on   the   share price — $81.74 — it appears he made   the   purchase shortly before Mr. Dorfman reported that Donald   Trump   was taking a stake   in   the   company. Within weeks,   the   stock was over $100 a share. Had Fred   Trump   sold then, he would have made a quick $1.3 million. But he didn’t, and   the   stock sank amid skepticism about his son’s history of hyped takeover attempts that fizzled. Fred   Trump   sold his shares for a $1.7 million loss   in   January 1990. A week later, Mr. Dorfman reported that Donald   Trump   had sold, too.

With other family members, Fred   Trump   could be cantankerous and cruel, according to sworn testimony by his relatives. “This is   the   stupidest thing I ever heard of,” he’d snap when someone disappointed him. He was different with his son Donald. He might chide him — “Finish this job before you start that job,” he’d counsel — but more often, he looked for ways to forgive and accommodate.

By 1987, for example, Donald   Trump’s   loan debt to his father had grown to at least $11 million. Yet canceling   the   debt would have required Donald   Trump   to pay millions   in   taxes   on   the   amount forgiven. Father and son found another solution, one never before disclosed, that appears to constitute both an unreported multimillion-dollar gift and a potentially illegal   tax   write-off.

In   December 1987, records show, Fred   Trump   bought a 7.5 percent stake   in   Trump   Palace, a 55-story condominium building his son was erecting on   the   Upper East Side of Manhattan. Most, if not all, of his investment, which totaled $15.5 million, was made by exchanging his son’s unpaid debts for   Trump   Palace shares, records show.

Four years later,   in   December 1991, Fred   Trump   sold his entire stake   in   Trump   Palace for just $10,000, his   tax   returns and financial statements reveal. Those documents do not identify who bought his stake. But other records indicate that he sold it back to his son.

Under state law, developers must file “offering plans” that identify to any potential condo buyer   the   project’s sponsors —   in   other words, its owners.   The   Trump   Palace offering plan, submitted   in   November 1989, identified two owners: Donald   Trump   and his father. But under   the   same law, if Fred   Trump   had sold his stake to a third party, Donald   Trump   would have been required to identify   the   new   owner   in   an amended offering plan filed with   the   state attorney general’s office. He did not do that, records show.

He did, however, sign a sworn affidavit a month after his father sold his stake.   In   the   affidavit, submitted   in   a lawsuit over a   Trump   Palace contractor’s unpaid bill, Donald   Trump   identified himself as “ the ” owner of   Trump   Palace.

Under I.R.S. rules, selling shares worth $15.5 million to your son for $10,000 is tantamount to giving him a $15.49 million taxable gift. Fred   Trump   reported no such gift.

According to   tax   experts,   the   only circumstance that would not have required Fred   Trump   to report a gift was if   Trump   Palace had been effectively bankrupt when he unloaded his shares.

Yet   Trump   Palace was far from bankrupt.

Property records show that condo sales there were brisk   in   1991.   Trump   Palace sold 57 condos for $52.5 million — 94 percent of   the   total asking price for those units.

Donald   Trump   himself proclaimed   Trump   Palace “ the   most financially secure condominium on   the   market today”   in   advertisements he placed   in   1991 to rebut criticism from buyers who complained that his business travails could drag down   Trump   Palace, too.   In   December, 17 days before his father sold his shares, he placed an ad vouching for   the   wisdom of investing   in   Trump   Palace: “Smart money says there has never been a better   time .”

By failing to tell   the   I.R.S. about his $15.49 million gift to his son, Fred   Trump   evaded   the   55 percent   tax   on gifts, saving about $8 million. At   the   same   time , he declared to   the   I.R.S. that   Trump   Palace was almost a complete loss — that he had walked away from a $15.5 million investment with just $10,000 to show for it.

Federal   tax   law prohibits deducting any loss from   the   sale of property between members of   the   same family, because of   the   potential for abuse. Yet Fred   Trump   appears to have done exactly that, dodging roughly $5 million more   in   income   taxes .

The   partnership between Fred and Donald   Trump   was not simply about   the   pursuit of riches. At its heart lay a more ambitious project, executed to perfection over decades — to create that origin story,   the   myth of Donald J.   Trump , Self-Made Billionaire.

Donald   Trump   built   the   foundation for   the   myth   in   the   1970s by appropriating his father’s empire as his own. By   the   late 1980s, instead of appropriating   the   empire, he was diminishing it. “It wasn’t a great business, it was a good business,” he said, as if Fred   Trump   ran a chain of laundromats. Yes, he told interviewers, his father was a wonderful mentor, but given   the   limits of his business,   the   most he could manage was a $1 million loan, and even that had to be repaid with interest.

Through it all, Fred   Trump   played along. Never once did he publicly question his son’s claim about   the   $1 million loan. “Everything he touches seems to turn to gold,” he told   The   Times   for that first profile   in   1976. “He’s gone way beyond me, absolutely,” he said when   The   Times   profiled his son again   in   1983. But for all Fred   Trump   had done to build   the   myth of Donald   Trump , Self-Made Billionaire, there was, it turned out, one line he would not allow his son to cross.

A Family Reckoning

Donald   Trump   tried to change his ailing father’s will, prompting a backlash — but also a recognition that plans had to be set   in   motion before Fred   Trump   died.

Fred   Trump   had given careful thought to what would become of his empire after he died, and had hired one of   the   nation’s top estate lawyers to draft his will. But   in   December 1990, Donald   Trump   sent his father a document, drafted by one of his own lawyers, that sought to make significant changes to that will.

Fred   Trump , then 85, had never before set eyes on   the   document, 12 pages of dense legalese. Nor had he authorized its preparation. Nor had he met   the   lawyer who drafted it.

Yet his son sent instructions that he needed to sign it immediately.

What happened next was described years later   in   sworn depositions by members of   the   Trump   family during a dispute, later settled, over   the   inheritance Fred   Trump   left to Fred Jr.’s children. These depositions, obtained by   The   Times , reveal something startling: Fred   Trump   believed that   the   document potentially put his life’s work at risk.

The   document, known as a codicil, did many things. It protected Donald   Trump’s   portion of   the   inheritance from his creditors and from his impending divorce settlement with his first wife, Ivana   Trump . It strengthened provisions   in   the   existing will making him   the   sole executor of his father’s estate. But more than any of   the   particulars, it was   the   entirety of   the   codicil and its presentation as a fait accompli that alarmed Fred   Trump ,   the   depositions show. He confided to family members that he viewed   the   codicil as an attempt to go behind his back and give his son total control over his affairs. He said he feared that it could let Donald   Trump   denude his empire, even using it as collateral to rescue his failing businesses. (It was,   in   fact,   the   very month of   the   $3.5 million casino rescue.)

As close as they were — or perhaps because they were so close — Fred   Trump   did not immediately confront his son. Instead he turned to his daughter Maryanne   Trump   Barry, then a federal judge whom he often consulted on legal matters. “This doesn’t pass   the   smell test,” he told her, she recalled during her deposition. When Judge Barry read   the   codicil, she reached   the   same conclusion. “Donald was   in   precarious financial straits by his own admission,” she said, “and Dad was very concerned as a man who worked hard for his money and never wanted any of it to leave   the   family.” ( In   a brief telephone interview, Judge Barry declined to comment.)

Fred   Trump   took prompt action to thwart his son. He dispatched his daughter to find   new   estate lawyers. One of them took notes on   the   instructions she passed on from her father: “Protect assets from DJT, Donald’s creditors.”   The   lawyers quickly drafted a   new   codicil stripping Donald   Trump   of sole control over his father’s estate. Fred   Trump   signed it immediately.

Clumsy as it was, Donald   Trump’s   failed attempt to change his father’s will brought a family reckoning about two related issues: Fred   Trump’s   declining health and his reluctance to relinquish ownership of his empire. Surgeons had removed a neck tumor a few years earlier, and he would soon endure hip replacement surgery and be found to have mild senile dementia. Yet for all   the   financial support he had lavished on his children, for all his abhorrence of   taxes , Fred   Trump   had stubbornly resisted his advisers’ recommendations to transfer ownership of his empire to   the   children to minimize estate   taxes .

With every passing year,   the   actuarial odds increased that Fred   Trump   would die owning apartment buildings worth many hundreds of millions of dollars, all of it exposed to   the   55 percent estate   tax . Just as exposed was   the   mountain of cash he was sitting on. His buildings, well maintained and carrying little debt, consistently produced millions of dollars a year   in   profits. Even after he paid himself $109.7 million from 1988 through 1993, his companies were holding $50 million   in   cash and investments, financial records show. Tens of millions of dollars more passed each month through a maze of personal accounts at Chase Manhattan Bank, Chemical Bank, Manufacturers Hanover Trust, UBS, Bowery Savings and United Mizrahi, an Israeli bank.

Simply put, without immediate action, Fred   Trump’s   heirs faced   the   prospect of losing hundreds of millions of dollars to estate   taxes .

Whatever their differences,   the   Trumps   formulated a plan to avoid this fate. How they did it is a story never before told.

It is also a story   in   which Donald   Trump   played a central role. He took   the   lead   in   strategy sessions where   the   plan was devised with   the   consent and participation of his father and his father’s closest advisers, people who attended   the   meetings told   The   Times . Robert   Trump ,   the   youngest sibling and   the   beta to Donald’s alpha, was given   the   task of overseeing day-to-day details. After years of working for his brother, Robert   Trump   went to work for his father   in   late 1991.

The   Trumps ’ plan, executed over   the   next decade, blended traditional techniques — such as rewriting Fred   Trump’s   will to maximize   tax   avoidance — with unorthodox strategies that   tax   experts told   The   Times   were legally dubious and,   in   some cases, appeared to be fraudulent. As a result,   the   Trump   children would gain ownership of virtually all of their father’s buildings without having to pay a penny of their own. They would turn   the   mountain of cash into a molehill of cash. And hundreds of millions of dollars that otherwise would have gone to   the   United States Treasury would instead go to Fred   Trump’s   children.

‘A Disguised Gift’

A family company let Fred   Trump   funnel money to his children by effectively overcharging himself for repairs and improvements on his properties.

One of   the   first steps came on Aug. 13, 1992, when   the   Trumps   incorporated a company named All County Building Supply & Maintenance.

All County had no corporate offices. Its address was   the   Manhasset, N.Y., home of John Walter, a favorite nephew of Fred   Trump’s . Mr. Walter, who died   in   January, spent decades working for Fred   Trump , primarily helping computerize his payroll and billing systems. He also was   the   unofficial keeper of Fred   Trump’s   personal and business papers, his basement crowded with boxes of old   Trump   financial records. John Walter and   the   four   Trump   children each owned 20 percent of All County, records show.

All County’s main purpose,   The   Times   found, was to enable Fred   Trump   to make large cash gifts to his children and disguise them as legitimate business transactions, thus evading   the   55 percent   tax .

The   way it worked was remarkably simple.

Each year Fred   Trump   spent millions of dollars maintaining and improving his properties. Some of   the   vendors who supplied his building superintendents and maintenance crews had been cashing Fred   Trump’s   checks for decades. Starting   in   August 1992, though, a different name began to appear on their checks — All County Building Supply & Maintenance.

Mr. Walter’s computer systems, meanwhile, churned out All County invoices that billed Fred   Trump’s   empire for those same services and supplies, with one difference: All County’s invoices were padded, marked up by 20 percent, or 50 percent, or even more, records show.

The   Trump   siblings split   the   markup, along with Mr. Walter.

The   self-dealing at   the   heart of this arrangement was best illustrated by Robert   Trump , whose father paid him a $500,000 annual salary. He approved many of   the   payments Fred   Trump’s   empire made to All County; he was also All County’s chief executive, as well as a co-owner. As for   the   work of All County — generating invoices — that fell to Mr. Walter, also on Fred   Trump’s   payroll, along with a personal assistant Mr. Walter paid to work on his side businesses.

Years later,   in   his deposition during   the   dispute over Fred   Trump’s   estate, Robert   Trump   would say that All County actually saved Fred   Trump   money by negotiating better deals. Given Fred   Trump’s   long experience expertly squeezing better prices out of contractors, it was a surprising claim. It was also not true.

The   Times ’s examination of thousands of pages of financial documents from Fred   Trump’s   buildings shows that his costs shot up once All County entered   the   picture.

Beach Haven Apartments illustrates how this happened:   In   1991 and 1992, Fred   Trump   bought 78 refrigerator-stove combinations for Beach Haven from Long Island Appliance Wholesalers.   The   average price was $642.69. But   in   1993, when he began paying All County for refrigerator-stove combinations,   the   price jumped by 46 percent. Likewise,   the   price he paid for trash-compacting services at Beach Haven increased 64 percent. Janitorial supplies went up more than 100 percent. Plumbing repairs and supplies rose 122 percent. And on it went   in   building after building.   The   more Fred   Trump   paid,   the   more All County made, which was precisely   the   plan.

While All County systematically overcharged Fred   Trump   for thousands of items,   the   job of negotiating with vendors fell, as it always had, to Fred   Trump   and his staff.

Leon Eastmond can attest to this.

Mr. Eastmond is   the   owner of A. L. Eastmond & Sons, a Bronx company that makes industrial boilers.   In   1993, he and Fred   Trump   met at Gargiulo’s, an old-school Italian restaurant   in   Coney Island that was one of Fred   Trump’s   favorites, to hash out   the   price of 60 boilers. Fred   Trump , accompanied by his secretary and Robert   Trump , drove a hard bargain. After negotiating a 10 percent discount, he made one last demand: “I had to pay   the   tab,” Mr. Eastmond recalled with a chuckle.

There was no mention of All County. Mr. Eastmond first heard of   the   company when its checks started rolling   in . “I remember opening my mail one day and out came a check for $100,000,” he recalled. “I didn’t recognize   the   company. I didn’t know who   the   hell they were.”

But as All County paid Mr. Eastmond   the   price negotiated by Fred   Trump , its invoices to Fred   Trump   were padded by 20 to 25 percent, records obtained by   The   Times   show. This added hundreds of thousands of dollars to   the   cost of   the   60 boilers, money that then flowed through All County to Fred   Trump’s   children without incurring any gift   tax .

All County’s owners devised another ruse to profit off Mr. Eastmond’s boilers. To win Fred   Trump’s   business, Mr. Eastmond had also agreed to provide mobile boilers for Fred   Trump’s   buildings free of charge while   new   boilers were being installed. Yet All County charged Fred   Trump   rent on   the   same mobile boilers Mr. Eastmond was providing free, along with hookup fees, disconnection fees, transportation fees and operating and maintenance fees, records show. These charges siphoned hundreds of thousands of dollars more from Fred   Trump’s   empire.

Mr. Walter, asked during a deposition why Fred   Trump   chose not to make himself one of All County’s owners, replied, “He said because he would have to pay a death   tax   on it.”

After being briefed on All County by   The   Times , Mr. Tritt,   the   University of Florida law professor, said   the   Trumps ’ use of   the   company was “highly suspicious” and could constitute criminal   tax   fraud. “It certainly looks like a disguised gift,” he said.

While All County was all upside for Donald   Trump   and his siblings, it had an insidious downside for Fred   Trump’s   tenants.

As an owner of rent-stabilized buildings   in   New   York , Fred   Trump   needed state approval to raise rents beyond   the   annual increases set by a government board. One way to justify a rent increase was to make a major capital improvement. It did not take much to get approval; an invoice or canceled check would do if   the   expense seemed reasonable.

The   Trumps   used   the   padded All County invoices to justify higher rent increases   in   Fred   Trump’s   rent-regulated buildings. Fred   Trump , according to Mr. Walter, saw All County as a way to have his cake and eat it, too. If he used his “expert negotiating ability” to buy a $350 refrigerator for $200, he could raise   the   rent based only on that $200, not on   the   $350 sticker price “a normal person” would pay, Mr. Walter explained. All County was   the   way around this problem. “You have to understand   the   thinking that went behind this,” he said.

As Robert   Trump   acknowledged   in   his deposition, “ The   higher   the   markup would be,   the   higher   the   rent that might be charged.”

State records show that after All County’s creation,   the   Trumps   got approval to raise rents on thousands of apartments by claiming more than $30 million   in   major capital improvements. Tenants repeatedly protested   the   increases, almost always to no avail,   the   records show.

One of   the   improvements most often cited by   the   Trumps :   new   boilers.

“All of this smells like a crime,” said Adam S. Kaufmann, a former chief of investigations for   the   Manhattan district attorney’s office who is now a partner at   the   law firm Lewis Baach Kaufmann Middlemiss . While   the   statute of limitations has long since lapsed, Mr. Kaufmann said   the   Trumps ’ use of All County would have warranted investigation for defrauding tenants,   tax   fraud and filing false documents.

Mr. Harder,   the   president’s lawyer, disputed   The   Times ’s reporting: “Should   The   Times   state or imply that President   Trump   participated   in   fraud,   tax   evasion or any other crime, it will be exposing itself to substantial liability and damages for defamation.”

All County was not   the   only company   the   Trumps   set up to drain cash from Fred   Trump’s   empire. A lucrative income source for Fred   Trump   was   the   management fees he charged his buildings. His primary management company,   Trump   Management, earned $6.8 million   in   1993 alone.   The   Trumps   found a way to redirect those fees to   the   children, too.

On Jan. 21, 1994, they created a company called Apartment Management Associates Inc., with a mailing address at Mr. Walter’s Manhasset home. Two months later, records show, Apartment Management started collecting fees that had previously gone to   Trump   Management.

The   only difference was that Donald   Trump   and his siblings owned Apartment Management.

Between All County and Apartment Management, Fred   Trump’s   mountain of cash was rapidly dwindling. By 1998, records show, All County and Apartment Management were generating today’s equivalent of $2.2 million a year for each of   the   Trump   children. Whatever income   tax   they owed on this money, it was considerably less than   the   55 percent   tax   Fred   Trump   would have owed had he simply given each of them $2.2 million a year.

But these savings were trivial compared with those that would come when Fred   Trump   transferred his empire —   the   actual bricks and mortar — to his children.

The   Alchemy of Value

The   transfer of most of Fred   Trump’s   empire to his children began with a ‘friendly’ appraisal and an incredible shrinking act.

In   his 90th year, Fred   Trump   still showed up at work a few days a week, ever dapper   in   suit and tie. But he had trouble remembering names — his dementia was getting worse — and he could get confused.   In   May 1995, with an unsteady hand, he signed documents granting Robert   Trump   power of attorney to act “ in   my name, place and stead.”

Six months later, on Nov. 22,   the   Trumps   began transferring ownership of most of Fred   Trump’s   empire. (A few properties were excluded.)   The   instrument they used to do this was a special type of trust with a clunky acronym only a   tax   lawyer could love: GRAT, short for grantor-retained annuity trust.

GRATs are one of   the   tax   code’s great gifts to   the   ultrawealthy. They let dynastic families like   the   Trumps   pass wealth from one generation to   the   next — be it stocks, real estate, even art collections — without paying a dime of estate   taxes .

The   details are numbingly complex, but   the   mechanics are straightforward. For   the   Trumps , it meant putting half   the   properties to be transferred into a GRAT   in   Fred   Trump’s   name and   the   other half into a GRAT   in   his wife’s name. Then Fred and Mary   Trump   gave their children roughly two-thirds of   the   assets   in   their GRATs.   The   children bought   the   remaining third by making annuity payments to their parents over   the   next two years. By Nov. 22, 1997, it was done;   the   Trump   children owned nearly all of Fred   Trump’s   empire free and clear of estate   taxes .

As for gift   taxes ,   the   Trumps   found a way around those, too.

The   entire transaction turned on one number:   the   market value of Fred   Trump’s   empire. This determined   the   amount of gift   taxes   Fred and Mary   Trump   owed for   the   portion of   the   empire they gave to their children. It also determined   the   amount of annuity payments their children owed for   the   rest.

The   I.R.S. recognizes that GRATs create powerful incentives to greatly undervalue assets, especially when those assets are not publicly traded stocks with transparent prices. Indeed, every $10 million reduction   in   the   valuation of Fred   Trump’s   empire would save   the   Trumps   either $10 million   in   annuity payments or $5.5 million   in   gift   taxes . This is why   the   I.R.S. requires families taking advantage of GRATs to submit independent appraisals and threatens penalties for those who lowball valuations.

In   practice, though, gift   tax   returns get little scrutiny from   the   I.R.S. It is an open secret among   tax   practitioners that evasion of gift   taxes   is rampant and rarely prosecuted. Punishment, such as it is, usually consists of an auditor’s requiring a   tax   payment closer to what should have been paid   in   the   first place. “GRATs are typically structured so that no   tax   is due, which means   the   I.R.S. has reduced incentive to audit them,” said Mitchell Gans, a professor of   tax   law at Hofstra University. “So if a gift is   in   fact undervalued, it may very well go unnoticed.”

This appears to be precisely what   the   Trumps   were counting on.   The   Times   found evidence that   the   Trumps   dodged hundreds of millions of dollars   in   gift   taxes   by submitting   tax   returns that grossly undervalued   the   real estate assets they placed   in   Fred and Mary   Trump’s   GRATs.

According to Fred   Trump’s   1995 gift   tax   return, obtained by   The   Times ,   the   Trumps   claimed that properties including 25 apartment complexes with 6,988 apartments — and twice   the   floor space of   the   Empire State Building — were worth just $41.4 million.   The   implausibility of this claim would be made plain   in   2004, when banks put a valuation of nearly $900 million on that same real estate.

The   methods   the   Trumps   used to pull off this incredible shrinking act were hatched   in   the   strategy sessions Donald   Trump   participated   in   during   the   early 1990s, documents and interviews show. Their basic strategy had two components: Get what is widely known as a “friendly” appraisal of   the   empire’s worth, then drive that number even lower by changing   the   ownership structure to make   the   empire look less valuable to   the   I.R.S.

A crucial step was finding a property appraiser attuned to their needs. As anyone who has ever bought or sold a home knows, appraisers can arrive at sharply different valuations depending on their methods and assumptions. And like stock analysts, property appraisers have been known to massage those methods and assumptions   in   ways that coincide with their clients’ interests.

The   Trumps   used Robert Von Ancken, a favorite of   New   York   City’s big real estate families. Over a 45-year career, Mr. Von Ancken has appraised many of   the   city’s landmarks, including Rockefeller Center,   the   World Trade Center,   the   Chrysler Building and   the   Empire State Building. Donald   Trump   recruited him after Fred   Trump   Jr. died and   the   family needed friendly appraisals to help shield   the   estate from   taxes .

Mr. Von Ancken appraised   the   25 apartment complexes and other properties   in   the   Trumps ’ GRATs and concluded that their total value was $93.9 million,   tax   records show.

To assess   the   accuracy of those valuations,   The   Times   examined   the   prices paid for comparable apartment buildings that sold within a year of Mr. Von Ancken’s appraisals. A pattern quickly emerged. Again and again, buildings   in   the   same neighborhood as   Trump   buildings sold for two to four   times   as much per square foot as Mr. Von Ancken’s appraisals, even when   the   buildings were decades older, had fewer amenities and smaller apartments, and were deemed less valuable by city property   tax   appraisers.

Mr. Von Ancken valued Argyle Hall, a six-story brick   Trump   building   in   Brooklyn, at $9.04 per square foot. Six blocks away, another six-story brick building, two decades older, had sold a few months earlier for nearly $30 per square foot. He valued Belcrest Hall, a   Trump   building   in   Queens, at $8.57 per square foot. A few blocks away, another six-story brick building, four decades older with apartments a third smaller, sold for $25.18 per square foot.

The   pattern persisted with Fred   Trump’s   higher-end buildings. Mr. Von Ancken appraised Lawrence Towers, a   Trump   building   in   Brooklyn with spacious balcony apartments, at $24.54 per square foot. A few months earlier, an apartment building abutting car repair shops a mile away, with units 20 percent smaller, had sold for $48.23 per square foot.

The   Times   found even starker discrepancies when comparing   the   GRAT appraisals against appraisals commissioned by   the   Trumps   when they had an incentive to show   the   highest possible valuations.

Such was   the   case with Patio Gardens, a complex of nearly 500 apartments   in   Brooklyn.

Of all Fred   Trump’s   properties, Patio Gardens was one of   the   least profitable, which may be why he decided to use it as a   tax   deduction.   In   1992, he donated Patio Gardens to   the   National Kidney Foundation of   New   York / New   Jersey, one of   the   largest charitable donations he ever made.   The   greater   the   value of Patio Gardens,   the   bigger his deduction.   The   appraisal cited   in   Fred   Trump’s   1992   tax   return valued Patio Gardens at $34 million, or $61.90 a square foot.

By contrast, Mr. Von Ancken’s GRAT appraisals found that   the   crown jewels of Fred   Trump’s   empire, Beach Haven and Shore Haven, with five   times   as many apartments as Patio Gardens, were together worth just $23 million, or $11.01 per square foot.

In   an interview, Mr. Von Ancken said that because neither he nor   The   Times   had   the   working papers that described how he arrived at his valuations, there was simply no way to evaluate   the   methodologies behind his numbers. “There would be explanations within   the   appraisals to justify all   the   values,” he said, adding, “Basically, when we prepare these things, we feel that these are going to be presented to   the   Internal Revenue Service for their review, and they better be right.”

Of all   the   GRAT appraisals Mr. Von Ancken did for   the   Trumps ,   the   most startling was for 886 rental apartments   in   two buildings at   Trump   Village, a complex   in   Coney Island. Mr. Von Ancken claimed that they were worth less than nothing — negative $5.9 million, to be exact. These were   the   same 886 units that city   tax   assessors valued that same year at $38.1 million, and that a bank would value at $106.6 million   in   2004.

It appears Mr. Von Ancken arrived at his negative valuation by departing from   the   methodology that he has repeatedly testified is most appropriate for properties like   Trump   Village, where past years’ profits are a poor gauge of future value.

In   1992,   the   Trumps   had removed   the   two   Trump   Village buildings from an affordable housing program so they could raise rents and increase their profits. But doing so cost them a property   tax   exemption, which temporarily put   the   buildings   in   the   red.   The   methodology described by Mr. Von Ancken would have disregarded this blip into   the   red and valued   the   buildings based on   the   higher rents   the   Trumps   would be charging. Mr. Von Ancken, however, appears to have based his valuation on   the   blip, producing an appraisal that, taken at face value, meant Fred   Trump   would have had to pay someone millions of dollars to take   the   property off his hands.

Mr. Von Ancken told   The   Times   that he did not recall which appraisal method he used on   the   two   Trump   Village buildings. “I can only say that we value   the   properties based on market information, and based on   the   expected income and expenses of   the   building and what they would sell for,” he said. As for   the   enormous gaps between his valuation and   the   1995 city property   tax   appraisal and   the   2004 bank valuation, he argued that such comparisons were pointless. “I can’t say what happened afterwards,” he said. “Maybe they increased   the   income tremendously.”

The   Minority Owner

To further whittle   the   empire’s valuation,   the   family created   the   appearance that Fred   Trump   held only 49.8 percent.

Armed with Mr. Von Ancken’s $93.9 million appraisal,   the   Trumps   focused on slashing even this valuation by changing   the   ownership structure of Fred   Trump’s   empire.

The   I.R.S. has long accepted   the   idea that ownership with control is more valuable than ownership without control. Someone with a controlling interest   in   a building can decide if and when   the   building is sold, how it is marketed and what price to accept. However, since someone who owns, say, 10 percent of a $100 million building lacks control over any of those decisions,   the   I.R.S. will let him claim that his stake should be taxed as if it were worth only $7 million or $8 million.

But Fred   Trump   had exercised total control over his empire for more than seven decades. With rare exceptions, he owned 100 percent of his buildings. So   the   Trumps   set out to create   the   fiction that Fred   Trump   was a minority owner. All it took was splitting   the   ownership structure of his empire. Fred and Mary   Trump   each ended up with 49.8 percent of   the   corporate entities that owned his buildings.   The   other 0.4 percent was split among their four children.

Splitting ownership into minority interests is a widely used method of   tax   avoidance. There is one circumstance, however, where it has at   times   been found to be illegal. It involves what is known   in   tax   law as   the   step transaction doctrine — where it can be shown that   the   corporate restructuring was part of a rapid sequence of seemingly separate maneuvers actually conceived and executed to dodge   taxes . A key issue, according to   tax   experts, is timing —   in   the   Trumps ’ case, whether they split up Fred   Trump’s   empire just before they set up   the   GRATs.

In   all,   the   Trumps   broke up 12 corporate entities to create   the   appearance of minority ownership.   The   Times   could not determine when five of   the   12 companies were divided. But records reveal that   the   other seven were split up just before   the   GRATs were established.

The   pattern was clear. For decades,   the   companies had been owned solely by Fred   Trump , each operating a different apartment complex or shopping center.   In   September 1995,   the   Trumps   formed seven   new   limited liability companies. Between Oct. 31 and Nov. 8, they transferred   the   deeds to   the   seven properties into their respective L.L.C.’s. On Nov. 21, they recorded six of   the   deed transfers   in   public property records. ( The   seventh was recorded on Nov. 24.) And on Nov. 22, 49.8 percent of   the   shares   in   these seven L.L.C.’s was transferred into Fred   Trump’s   GRAT and 49.8 percent into Mary   Trump’s   GRAT.

That enabled   the   Trumps   to slash Mr. Von Ancken’s valuation   in   a way that was legally dubious. They claimed that Fred and Mary   Trump’s   status as minority owners, plus   the   fact that a building couldn’t be sold as easily as a share of stock, entitled them to lop 45 percent off Mr. Von Ancken’s $93.9 million valuation. This claim, combined with $18.3 million more   in   standard deductions, completed   the   alchemy of turning real estate that would soon be valued at nearly $900 million into $41.4 million.

According to   tax   experts, claiming a 45 percent discount was questionable even back then, and far higher than   the   20 to 30 percent discount   the   I.R.S. would allow today.

As it happened,   the   Trumps ’ GRATs did not completely elude I.R.S. scrutiny. Documents obtained by   The   Times   reveal that   the   I.R.S. audited Fred   Trump’s   1995 gift   tax   return and concluded that Fred   Trump   and his wife had significantly undervalued   the   assets being transferred through their GRATs.

The   I.R.S. determined that   the   Trumps ’ assets were worth $57.1 million, 38 percent more than   the   couple had claimed. From   the   perspective of an I.R.S. auditor, pulling   in   nearly $5 million   in   additional revenue could be considered a good day’s work. For   the   Trumps , getting   the   I.R.S. to agree that Fred   Trump’s   properties were worth only $57.1 million was a triumph.

“All estate matters were handled by licensed attorneys, licensed C.P.A.s and licensed real estate appraisers who followed all laws and rules strictly,” Mr. Harder,   the   president’s lawyer, said   in   his statement.

In   the   end,   the   transfer of   the   Trump   empire cost Fred and Mary   Trump   $20.5 million   in   gift   taxes   and their children $21 million   in   annuity payments. That is hundreds of millions of dollars less than they would have paid based on   the   empire’s market value,   The   Times   found.

Better still for   the   Trump   children, they did not have to pay out a penny of their own. They simply used their father’s empire as collateral to secure a line of credit from M&T Bank. They used   the   line of credit to make   the   $21 million   in   annuity payments, then used   the   revenue from their father’s empire to repay   the   money they had borrowed.

On   the   day   the   Trump   children finally took ownership of Fred   Trump’s   empire, Donald   Trump’s   net worth instantly increased by many tens of millions of dollars. And from then on,   the   profits from his father’s empire would flow directly to him and his siblings.   The   next year, 1998, Donald   Trump’s   share amounted to today’s equivalent of $9.6 million,   The   Times   found.

This sudden influx of wealth came only weeks after he had published “ The   Art of   the   Comeback.”

“I learned a lot about myself during these hard   times ,” he wrote. “I learned about handling pressure. I was able to home   in , buckle down, get back to   the   basics, and make things work. I worked much harder, I focused, and I got myself out of a box.”

Over 244 pages he did not mention that he was being handed nearly 25 percent of his father’s empire.

Remnants of Empire

After Fred   Trump’s   death, his children used familiar methods to devalue what little of his life’s work was still   in   his name.

During Fred   Trump’s   final years, dementia stole most of his memories. When family visited, there was one name he could reliably put to a face.

Donald.

On June 7, 1999, Fred   Trump   was admitted to Long Island Jewish Medical Center, not far from   the   house   in   Jamaica Estates, for treatment of pneumonia. He died there on June 25, at   the   age of 93.

Fifteen months later, Fred   Trump’s   executors — Donald, Maryanne and Robert — filed his estate   tax   return.   The   return, obtained by   The   Times , vividly illustrates   the   effectiveness of   the   tax   strategies devised by   the   Trumps   in   the   early 1990s.

Fred   Trump , one of   the   most prolific   New   York   developers of his   time , owned just five apartment complexes, two small strip malls and a scattering of co-ops   in   the   city upon his death.   The   man who paid himself $50 million   in   1990 died with just $1.9 million   in   the   bank. He owned not a single stock, bond or Treasury bill. According to his estate   tax   return, his most valuable asset was a $10.3 million I.O.U. from Donald   Trump , money his son appears to have borrowed   the   year before Fred   Trump   died.

The   bulk of Fred   Trump’s   empire was nowhere to be found on his estate   tax   return. And yet Donald   Trump   and his siblings were not done. Recycling   the   legally dubious techniques they had mastered with   the   GRATs, they dodged tens of millions of dollars   in   estate   taxes   on   the   remnants of empire that Fred   Trump   still owned when he died,   The   Times   found.

As with   the   GRATs, they obtained appraisals from Mr. Von Ancken that grossly understated   the   actual market value of those remnants. And as with   the   GRATs, they aggressively discounted Mr. Von Ancken’s appraisals.   The   result: They claimed that   the   five apartment complexes and two strip malls were worth $15 million.   In   2004, records show, bankers would put a value of $176.2 million on   the   exact same properties.

The   most improbable of these valuations was for Tysens Park Apartments, a complex of eight buildings with 1,019 units on Staten Island. On   the   portion of   the   estate   tax   return where they were required to list Tysens Park’s value,   the   Trumps   simply left a blank space and claimed they owed no estate   taxes   on it at all.

As with   the   Trump   Village appraisal,   the   Trumps   appear to have hidden key facts from   the   I.R.S. Tysens Park, like   Trump   Village, had operated for years under an affordable housing program that by law capped Fred   Trump’s   profits. This cap drastically reduced   the   property’s market value.

Except for one thing:   The   Trumps   had removed Tysens Park from   the   affordable housing program   the   year before Fred   Trump   died,   The   Times   found. When Donald   Trump   and his siblings filed Fred   Trump’s   estate   tax   return, there were no limits on their profits.   In   fact, they had already begun raising rents.

As their father’s executors, Donald, Maryanne and Robert were legally responsible for   the   accuracy of his estate   tax   return. They were obligated not only to give   the   I.R.S. a complete accounting of   the   value of his estate’s assets, but also to disclose all   the   taxable gifts he made during his lifetime, including, for example,   the   $15.5 million   Trump   Palace gift to Donald   Trump   and   the   millions of dollars he gave his children via All County’s padded invoices.

“If they knew anything was wrong they could be   in   violation of   tax   law,” Mr. Tritt,   the   University of Florida law professor, said. “They can’t just stick their heads   in   the   sand.”

In   addition to drastically understating   the   value of apartment complexes and shopping centers, Fred   Trump’s   estate   tax   return made no mention of either   Trump   Palace or All County.

It wasn’t until after Fred   Trump’s   wife, Mary, died at 88 on Aug. 7, 2000, that   the   I.R.S. completed its audit of their combined estates.   The   audit concluded that their estates were worth $51.8 million, 23 percent more than Donald   Trump   and his siblings had claimed.

That meant an additional $5.2 million   in   estate   taxes . Even so,   the   Trumps   tax   bill was a fraction of what they would have owed had they reported   the   market value of what Fred and Mary   Trump   owned at   the   time   of their deaths.

Mr. Harder,   the   president’s lawyer, defended   the   tax   returns filed by   the   Trumps . “ The   returns and   tax   positions that   The   Times   now attacks were examined   in   real   time   by   the   relevant taxing authorities,” he said. “ The   taxing authorities requested a few minor adjustments, which were made, and then fully approved all of   the   tax   filings. These matters have now been closed for more than a decade.”

A Good   Time   to Sell

Donald   Trump ,   in   financial trouble again, pitched   the   idea of selling   the   still-profitable empire that his father had wanted to keep   in   the   family.

In   2003,   the   Trump   siblings gathered at   Trump   Tower for one of their periodic updates on their inherited empire.

As always, Robert   Trump   drove into Manhattan with several of his lieutenants. Donald   Trump   appeared with Allen H. Weisselberg, who had worked for Fred   Trump   for two decades before becoming his son’s chief financial officer.   The   sisters, Maryanne   Trump   Barry and Elizabeth   Trump   Grau, were there as well.

The   meeting followed   the   usual routine: a financial report, a rundown of operational issues and then   the   real business — distributing profits to each   Trump .   The   task of handing out   the   checks fell to Steve Gurien,   the   empire’s finance chief.

A moment later, Donald   Trump   abruptly changed   the   course of his family’s history: He said it was a good   time   to sell.

Fred   Trump’s   empire,   in   fact, was continuing to produce healthy profits, and selling contradicted his stated wish to keep his legacy   in   the   family. But Donald   Trump   insisted that   the   real estate market had peaked and that   the   time   was right, according to a person familiar with   the   meeting.

He was also, once again,   in   financial trouble. His Atlantic City casinos were veering toward another bankruptcy. His creditors would soon threaten to oust him unless he committed to invest $55 million of his own money.

Yet if Donald   Trump’s   sudden push to sell stunned   the   room, it met with no apparent resistance from his siblings. He directed his brother to solicit private bids, saying he wanted   the   sale handled quickly and quietly. Donald   Trump’s   signature skill — drumming up publicity for   the   Trump   brand — would sit this one out.

Three potential bidders were given access to   the   finances of Fred   Trump’s   empire — 37 apartment complexes and several shopping centers. Ruby Schron, a major   New   York   City landlord, quickly emerged as   the   favorite.   In   December 2003, Mr. Schron called Donald   Trump   and they came to an agreement; Mr. Schron paid $705.6 million for most of   the   empire, which included paying off   the   Trumps ’ mortgages. A few remaining properties were sold to other buyers, bringing   the   total sales price to $737.9 million.

On May 4, 2004,   the   Trump   children spent most of   the   day signing away ownership of what their father had doggedly built over 70 years.   The   sale received little news coverage, and an article   in   The   Staten Island Advance included   the   rarest of phrases: “ Trump   did not return a phone call seeking comment.”

Even more extraordinary was this unreported fact:   The   banks financing Mr. Schron’s purchase valued Fred   Trump’s   empire at nearly $1 billion.   In   other words, Donald   Trump , master dealmaker, sold his father’s empire for hundreds of millions less than it was worth.

Within a year of   the   sale, Mr.   Trump   spent $149 million   in   cash on a rapid series of transactions that bolstered his billionaire bona fides.   In   June 2004 he agreed to pay $73 million to buy out his partner   in   the   planned   Trump   International Hotel & Tower   in   Chicago. (“I’m just buying it with my own cash,” he told reporters.) He paid $55 million   in   cash to make peace with his casino creditors. Then he put up $21 million more   in   cash to help finance his purchase of Maison de l’Amitié, a waterfront mansion   in   Palm Beach, Fla., that he later sold to a Russian oligarch.

*****

The   first season of “ The   Apprentice” was broadcast   in   2004, just as Donald   Trump   was wrapping up   the   sale of his father’s empire.   The   show’s opening montage — quick cuts of a glittering   Trump   casino, then   Trump   Tower, then a   Trump   helicopter mid-flight, then a limousine depositing   the   man himself at   the   steps of his jet, all set to   the   song “For   the   Love of Money” — is a reminder that   the   story of Donald   Trump   is fundamentally a story of money.

Money is at   the   core of   the   brand Mr.   Trump   has so successfully sold to   the   world. Yet essential to that mythmaking has been keeping   the   truth of his money — how much of it he actually has, where and whom it came from — hidden or obscured. Across   the   decades, aided and abetted by less-than-aggressive journalism, Mr.   Trump   has made sure his financial history would be sensationalized far more than seen.

Just this year,   in   a confessional essay for   The   Washington Post , Jonathan Greenberg, a former reporter for Forbes, described how Mr.   Trump , identifying himself as John Barron, a spokesman for Donald   Trump , repeatedly and flagrantly lied to get himself on   the   magazine’s first-ever list of wealthiest Americans   in   1982. Because of Mr.   Trump’s   refusal to release his   tax   returns,   the   public has been left to interpret contradictory glimpses of his income offered up by anonymous leaks. A few pages from one   tax   return, mailed to   The   Times   in   September 2016, showed that he declared a staggering loss of $916 million   in   1995 . A couple of pages from another return, disclosed on Rachel Maddow’s program, showed that he earned an impressive $150 million   in   2005.

In   a statement to   The   Times ,   the   president’s spokeswoman, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, reiterated what Mr.   Trump   has always claimed about   the   evolution of his fortune: “ The   president’s father gave him an initial $1 million loan, which he paid back. President   Trump   used this money to build an incredibly successful company as well as net worth of over $10 billion, including owning some of   the   world’s greatest real estate.”

Today,   the   chasm between that claim of being worth more than $10 billion and a Bloomberg estimate of $2.8 billion reflects   the   depth of uncertainty that remains about one of   the   most chronicled public figures   in   American history. Questions about   newer   money sources are rapidly accumulating because of   the   Russia investigation and lawsuits alleging that Mr.   Trump   is violating   the   Constitution by continuing to do business with foreign governments.

But   the   more than 100,000 pages of records obtained during this investigation make it possible to sweep away decades of misinformation and arrive at a clear understanding about   the   original source of Mr.   Trump’s   wealth — his father.

Here is what can be said with certainty: Had Mr.   Trump   done nothing but invest   the   money his father gave him   in   an index fund that tracks   the   Standard & Poor’s 500, he would be worth $1.96 billion today. As for that $1 million loan, Fred   Trump   actually lent him at least $60.7 million, or $140 million   in   today’s dollars,   The   Times   found.

And there is one more Fred   Trump   windfall coming Donald   Trump’s   way. Starrett City,   the   Brooklyn housing complex that   the   Trumps   invested   in   back   in   the   1970s, sold this year for $905 million. Donald   Trump’s   share of   the   proceeds is expected to exceed $16 million, records show.

It was an investment made with Fred   Trump’s   money and connections. But   in   Donald   Trump’s   version of his life, Starrett City is always and forever “one of   the   best investments I ever made.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.24  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.23    4 years ago

What is that - the Magazine edition of the New York Times?

I read the denial by Trump's lawyers in there, but even if we assume all that is true, what does it really mean?  That Trump's father enabled & enriched his son?

That's all fair and legal 

but 

most of all it is irrelevant to this discussion!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.25  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.24    4 years ago
That Trump's father enabled & enriched his son?

Now Vic, if you're a good Democrat you know you gotta hate on that.  

Especially if you're a rich Democrat ..... smoke screen engaged .....

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.26  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.25    4 years ago

I suspect they hate him for his policies. How did Van Jones say it?  It was a changing country.

Donald Trump put a stop to their change!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.27  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.26    4 years ago

What policies other than those that benefit the 'president' and his criminal enterprise administration and his corrupt crime family and his wealthy benefactors?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.28  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.24    4 years ago
That's all fair and legal 

It is neither fair or legal. 

Trump-Tax-Fraud-Timeline-Infographic1.jpg

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.30  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.28    4 years ago
By 1989, Donald Trump owed his father about $11 million and it was coming up on time to collect. If the loan was simply forgiven, it would turn into taxable income; instead, Donald paid it back through a 7.5% stake in one of his Manhattan condominiums. This means that both Donald and his father Fred agreed that 7.5% of his property, obtained through stocks, had a value of $11 million.

However, Fred Trump sold this 7.5% stock back to his son just two years later for only $10,000, spread out over multiple transactions.  One documented example  from 1991 provided by the Times listed a net loss of almost $1 million for just one of these transactions! Nothing drastic happened to New York City real estate prices in order to justify this price difference, so it appears as though the agreed-upon 7.5% was now only worth a fraction of its original value.

In this way, Donald Trump and his father were able to turn a debt of $11,000,000 into only $10,000, paid tax-free, all by grossly overvaluing and then undervaluing the stock value of his property.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.31  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.30    4 years ago

This is the first instance reported by the New York Times in which Donald Trump participated in appraisal fraud in order to avoid paying estate taxes. Although the Times states that the inherited properties would have been worth over $90 million, a document they obtained shows that the estate (Donald and Fred Sr.) claimed they were only worth slightly over $13 million.

As a result of this, Fred Trump Jr.’s estate only had to pay $700,000 in estate taxes. If they had declared these properties on their estate tax return at their full value, they would have had to pay nearly $60 million according to  estate tax rates and exclusions  in that year.

The next instance in which the Times claims that Donald Trump committed appraisal fraud to pay less in estate taxes occurred in 1997 when his father passed away. According to  another document provided by the publication , Fred Trump’s estate was said to have a total value of around $41 million. However, they then state that Donald was able to sell his share of the estate for $177.3 million in 2004.

Think about those numbers for a minute. How was Donald Trump able to turn  a portion of $41 million  into  $177.3 million  in just 7 years? As the Times tells it, he was able to do this by handling his late father’s estate the same was as he did his late brother’s: fraudulently.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.32  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @4.1.27    4 years ago

Let's see:

There was the 2017 Tax Cut.

Prison Reform

Appointing approx 300 Conservative Judges and 3 Justices.

Fair trade deals

Rebuilding the military

Ending the "Iran Deal"

Negotiating middle east peace deals

Securing the border.


I'm sure you don't like any of those.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.33  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.31    4 years ago

Not interested.  

You keep quoting the Times, which not only lies but has admitted they are out to get Trump

Can't you discuss the topic?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.34  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.28    4 years ago
It is neither fair or legal. 

Then arrest him.

Stop posting billboard signs on my article

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.35  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.34    4 years ago

STOP SAYING THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT TRUMP IS CORRUPT !

There have been books written about it for christ sake. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.2  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @4    4 years ago
Tony Bobulinskis bs didnt even last 48 hours.

What? The first time he spoke out was right before the debate last night. It's certainly not "news" on MSM and left-wing newspapers because they're all covering for Biden, but Bobulinski's revelations have been front and center on real news sources last night after the debate and all day today.

Stay tuned!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Expert
4.2.1  Dulay  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.2    4 years ago

Actually he was blathering a couple of days ago. Before y'all hang your hats on Tony Bobulinskis you really should look into his own financial transactions in China.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  Dulay @4.2.1    4 years ago

There are also two other secret accounts that the 'president' never disclosed.  I forget where they were, I believe one was in Scotland.  

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.2.3  Jasper2529  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.2    4 years ago
There are also two other secret accounts that the 'president' never disclosed.  I forget where they were, I believe one was in Scotland. 

Please let me know when you have links that provide evidence of those "accounts".

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.2.3    4 years ago

"Please let me know when you have links that provide evidence of those "accounts".

Google is your friend.  Why the hell would I do your homework for you?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.2.5  Jasper2529  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.4    4 years ago
Google is your friend.

I don't use Google, because it's a radical left-wing agent that suppresses factual news.

Why the hell would I do your homework for you?

Since you made claims in comment 4.2.2   it's your job, not mine, to provide your evidence when asked about them.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.6  Tessylo  replied to  Jasper2529 @4.2.5    4 years ago
"I don't use Google, because it's a radical left-wing agent that suppresses factual news."

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

Didn't you get the memo?  I don't answer to you or anyone else here on NT.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.3  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @4    4 years ago
"You and your buddies laid another dud on us Vic.  Remember, you are the guy that told us that the "unmasking" scandal was going to send democrats to prison."

Yup, and we're still waiting on those Durham indictments on President Obama, Joe Biden, and Hillary Clinton.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.4  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @4    4 years ago
ony Bobulinskis bs didnt even last 48 hours. The shelf life of these fabrications is getting shorter. 

The Wall Street Journal didn't debunk the story. It proved he didn't put his name on the corporate paperwork, which are two different things.

Here's a good summary:

"A q uick read of the above email shows that the Bidens understood the simple truth that when you’re running a cash-for-access scheme, you don’t record the name of the corrupt public figure for the benefit of interested parties who might seek to expose you. And we know the Bidens and their partners were appropriately cautious about concealing Joe’s involvement thanks to text messages that Bobulinski released in which Gilliar admonishes him, “ Don’t mention that joe is involved, it’s only when u are face to face, I know you know that but they are paranoid.”

The grasping partisans also made much of the fact that the   Journal   report notes that Bobulinski’s emails and text messages “show no role” for the former vice president. Why would they? Again, you don’t make the corrupt politician to whom the Chinese want access the CEO of your shady enterprise, for what should be glaringly obvious reasons. That the   Journal   reporters were unable to find a job title for Joe Biden means next to nothing."

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.4.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.4    4 years ago

Sean, I think you know by now that I dont give a shit if Joe Biden was trying to make money in China after he left office. And I also wouldnt trust anyone's word who allows themselves to go to the debate as Donald Trump's guest. The appearance of ulterior right wing motives on this Bodulinski guys part leaps off the page. 

What is truly amazing about ALL of this is the conservatives belief that such stories should be "game changers"  and suddenly push voters into Trumps waiting arms. It is beyond absurd. 

I'm going to start posting articles on Trump's corruption from now until the election just for the fuck of it. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
4.4.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.4    4 years ago

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif       jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
5  Colour Me Free    4 years ago
As of this morning the Biden defense team (the media) is working overtime to say that Biden's biggest error -- saying he wants to end the oil industry -- is no big deal and isn't that what we all say in our hearts anyway!

In Calmer Debate, Biden and Trump Offer Sharply Different Visions for Nation

  At the end of the debate, Mr. Biden said he would push the country to “transition from the oil industry,” adding that “the oil industry pollutes significantly” and that he would end federal subsidies. Sensing an opening, Mr. Trump said “that’s a big statement” and then invoked a series of states with energy-heavy industries. “Will you remember that Texas? Will you remember that Pennsylvania, Oklahoma?”

Last paragraph of the article.. I recorded the debate .. but deleted it and as of yet am unable to find a clip online regarding this exchange - I do not recall former Vice President Biden saying anything about federal subsidies... but it is also not in "quotes"...

All in all a good debate .. since what took place last night is, by todays standards considered a debate .. : )

I already cast my ballot and did not vote for either presidential candidate - the State of Montana will go to Trump .. my states senate race is the race that counts - it could determine the control of the US Senate.  Out of state influences are desperately trying to push an agenda.  Personally I feel Montana is best represented by having 1 (R) 1(D) in DC..

Peace

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
5.1  Colour Me Free  replied to  Colour Me Free @5    4 years ago

The clip from the debate was just played on the news .. Biden did not say anything about ending subsidies .. but the reporter said that Biden address ending oil industry subsidies ... so there it is .... Vic I do believe you are correct

As of this morning the Biden defense team (the media) is working overtime to say that Biden's biggest error ...
 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
6  charger 383    4 years ago

Trump had energy, pride, confidence, thought quick  and Biden again looked like Uncle Joe at the Shady Rest Hotel on the old TV show Petticoat Junction  

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
6.2  Jasper2529  replied to  charger 383 @6    4 years ago

Great observations!

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  charger 383 @6    4 years ago

Trump had energy, pride, confidence, thought quick  and Biden again looked like Uncle Joe at the Shady Rest Hotel on the old TV show Petticoat Junction  

I never saw so much pride when he announced how clean the accommodations were for the children whose parents he disappeared.  What a great guy!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.3.1  Texan1211  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.3    4 years ago

parents he disappeared?

WTF is that supposed to mean?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.3.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.3    4 years ago
Biden again looked like Uncle Joe at the Shady Rest Hotel on the old TV show Petticoat Junction  

Trump looked like Bernie Madoff on Adderall.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
6.3.3  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @6.3.1    4 years ago

Deported

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.3.4  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @6.3.3    4 years ago

So, not disappeared. 

Deported.

Big difference.

Thanks for the confirmation.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.3.5  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Texan1211 @6.3.4    4 years ago

Deported to a violent country they were trying to escape for the sake of their children‘s safety, and then they subsequently disappeared.  They could very well have been given a death sentence by your hero.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.3.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.3.5    4 years ago

Deported.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
6.3.7  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.3.5    4 years ago

So how many did you house, feed, employ to help them out?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7  TᵢG    4 years ago

Trump did a much better job this debate.   Too little too late, but it shows that he has the means to behave.

Regardless, COVID-19 decided this election just like the irresponsible use of mortgage-backed-securities decided the 2008 election.    Trump could have ridden this wave and possibly be reelected if he had shown leadership instead of trying to manipulate public psychology for economic reasons (which failed anyway).   If Trump had expressed a consistent message to take this pandemic seriously, wear masks, social distance, keep clean and had worked with the Governors to provide Federal resources and to give them the political cover/justification to take the actions needed to protect the people in their states, then the USA might be one of the leaders in getting past this pandemic instead of one of the laggards.

The long duration of COVID-19 stresses people out and seriously harms the economy which in turn stresses people out more.    Trump's major reelection advantage was the economy.   By trying to prop it up with words alone (typical Trump trying to take the easy way out by misdirecting words) he wound up harming the economy and the health and lives of the electorate.  

When times are not good, the electorate typically makes a change.   Times are not good.   The electorate is very likely to make a change. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8  author  Vic Eldred    4 years ago

I want to leave you all with a parting thought:

Today is day 9 of Twitter ban on New York Post; paper's last tweets were October 14. How long will ban last?


I'm predicting it comes off on Nov 4th..




Good afternoon

 
 

Who is online