The Number Of New Yorkers Leaving City More Than Doubles In One Year
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
While New York Mayor de Blasio has pledged to “ tax the hell out of the rich” and claimed unprecedented successes in the city, the number of New Yorkers leaving the city continues to rise. Indeed, the number has more than doubled in the last year . However, at the same time, the number international migrants to the city has risen sharply.
New York leads all other cities with the largest loss in population with 277 people moving every day. A year ago, it was 132. Los Angeles and Chicago follow New York as net losers with 201 and 161 residents, respectively.
However, during the same period, almost 100,000 net international migrants settled during the same period.
De Blasio is facing the loss of wealthy citizens who are going to lower tax states like Florida. Now that New Yorkers cannot write off their higher taxes on their federal forms , many are fleeing. The loss of these top earners can be devastating. The top 1 percent pays for nearly half of the income tax revenue in New York City. A family of four in New York earning $175,000 will pay 25 percent of their income in New York in taxes as compared to 14 percent for the same family in Florida. His promises to “tax the hell out of the rich” will not help retain those who have thus far stayed behind.
Jonathan Turley
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For those who want to continue defending the indefensible.
Vic,
I don't like our mayor, but the very article you posted is the major reason that there is a huge problem in metro area (including out of NYC) and that would be Trump's property tax cap, which was messed up. He will have to return here one day.. I am wondering how he will deal with that mess.
Please tell me why it's messed up? Why should people in Ohio and Indiana compensate for the exorbitant spending of NYC?
How are they paying for spending? The cap on property tax has no net effect on those states or on NY spending. What it did was punish NY'ers for their school taxes and actually hurt all those high earners that you are talking about and drove down property values hence the sudden decline in home sales.
Every state has to raise taxes on it's citizens to pay for it's spending:
"Capping the state and local tax deduction to $10,000 was one of the ways Congress tried to offset the cost of lowering federal income tax rates. The cap, combined with new limits on the mortgage interest deduction, is expected to generate an additional $668 billion for the federal government over the next 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation. Although Republican and Democratic lawmakers in states with higher taxes fought unsuccessfully against the cap, the policy is generally seen as disproportionately impacting liberal-leaning states."
I call it fairness.
And if that is where it stopped we would not be having this discussion But out state's tax structure is different. The biggest part of our property taxes is spent on our schools. Had they broke out the first part (mortgage and state tax) from the local taxes i would have no issue. But they didn't do that. So really we are being punished for wanting good schools.
Why was the cap on the SALT deduction messed up? The cap applied to all states; the cap seemed like an equitable change to the tax code.
All states and cities are confronted with providing services and infrastructure. New York City is not unique in that respect.
If the Federal government imposed a wealth tax, as Democrats are proposing, would that make NYC any more affordable? States with lower taxes than New York would still be more attractive.
Thats true in most states.
Problem with NY is, last i checked, you spent double the national average per student but don't get nearly double the best end results. In fact, based on the rating below, NY state is only 22nd best.
Something is seriously wrong there and it's not the property tax write off limit.
No it isn't. Most states have are centralized and money is distributed to the schools by the state.
I don't know why I bother with these discussions. Everyone has made up their minds and so this is a total waste of time. But I will try one last time.
We buy into our school districts. The better the district the more taxes generally.
The reason we are 22 (hardly bad) is because that is the states average with takes in account both great districts and bad ones, and then the are averaged. Since we are decentralized (as opposed to say California) there is huge variations on both property taxes and quality of schools.
Okay, i didn't know that but no need to get pissy about it. I've never claimed to know everything here. Isn't that what sites like this are supposed to be for? Learning new things?
So your school taxes (property or otherwise) stay 100% in your district?
I would really like that. We'd be money ahead but in Michigan that would crush many other low revenue schools. My district is allotted less than collected, about 11k per student. The rest goes to pay for under funded school. The top one in our state has like six students and they pay over 65k per for them.
That money has to come from somewhere.
Sorry Sparty. I didn't mean to let my frustration out on you, but please try to see it from my perspective. I am getting it from several other people and I feel a bit picked upon.
Yes.They only go to fund the schools.
There is a small portion that the state gives to our schools that comes from out lottery (and probably our state taxes), but you are correct that the wealthier districts get better schools. That is what I mean we buy into our neighborhoods. In NY, we buy our homes based on how well the schools perform and part of that is also what the school taxes are. For the most part the best funded schools (school tax) are the best performing. But that is why there is such a huge variation in our schools, from terrible to better than prep schools.
Because NYS has a unique tax structure. We pay an additional school tax that varies from town to town.
Because we love you.
I live in Western New York in a suburb of Buffalo. I pay school taxes (for my district that funds only my district) and I pay county taxes. My taxes are roughly $3,000 a yr.
If you leave in a village you pay an additional tax which is village tax.
There are many, many school districts.
The Federal government has no control over how state and local governments structure their taxes. How New York has structured its taxes is New York's business.
By the same token state and local governments have no control over how the Federal government structures its taxes. There can't be different Federal tax codes to accommodate every state's tax structure.
Changes in the Federal tax code affect individuals, as well as state and local governments, differently. The Federal tax code cannot provide everyone preferential treatment.
Consider that the changes in the Federal tax code aren't messed up; New York's tax structure is what is messed up. The SALT deduction cap has been equitably applied to all states. Why should New York receive preferential treatment because of how the state has structured its taxes?
No worries Perrie .... we good.
That's amazing to me. Especially in a liberal state like NY.
I would love that. It's the fairest way to do it imo but i'd have a better chance of a Capuchin monkey flying out of my butt than that happening in Michigan.
Honestly, that blows my mind that it's that way in NY.
Then you good. The write off limit doesn't hurt you.
We have just under 600 school districts here in Michigan. Student funding ranges from over 65k per student down to about 8k.
Title one comes into play for lower income "disadvantaged" school districts. Thats Federal funding and makes up much of the difference for the higher funded school districts
Unfortunately many of them are now moving into my neck of the woods in Colorado. The population explosion has adversely affected the quality of life with traffic jams, pollution, long lift lines and worst of all they bring their leftist political views with them. My purple state has turned blue. I’m thinking about moving to Utah, Wyoming, Montana or Alaska to get away from them.
You think they would have learned their lesson.
What lesson?
Electing the same politicians who are offering sugar cookies
Vic,
Of our last 3 mayor only De Blasio has been a liberal. Giuliani was a Republican and Bloomberg was an Independent. Both were tough on crime and quality of life issues in the city. Neither of them promised "sugar cookies". De Blasio is a twit and I look forward to him going.
That won't be an easy task. He was voted in, not once but twice! What does that tell you? In the country I grew up in he never would have been elected...ANYWHERE!
We have term limits in NYC, so he's out at the end of this term, and sadly, he ran virtually unopposed.
You grew up in Boston, and it had its fair share of issues, too.
And bottom line, NYC is still the safest city in the US, even with this ass.
Why was that?
You grew up in Boston, and it had its fair share of issues, too.
Also a liberal city, but with a difference. Clean and safe. That being said, I would have felt more comfortable in NYC. My life would have been different, I'm sure.
And bottom line, NYC is still the safest city in the US, even with this ass.
I'll say it again, you are not going to get what you once got from your 45,000 - 35,000 member police force. They are simply not going to risk their lives to be treated as an enemy.
NYC is clean and safe. I've been to Boston many times and there is no difference in quality of life.
Strange, because the numbers speak for themselves. We are among the safest big cities in the US along with Boston
You better run. It sounds like a contagion. LOL.
Sorry you feel that way, being a ex Long Islander. I happen to like my quality of life here.
This is great, the big cities are too crowded as it is.
Are you a city dweller?
So they can move to rural land further enhancing climate change?
I for one am tired of liberals moving into rural areas. They destroy whole Eco systems building subdivisions in the country then have the audacity to sit on their high horse and tell you everything you do is wrong.
They need to stay in their shitholes and make them better.
Northern Virginia and Montgomery County MD come to mind. The taxpayers have been so generous.
Well, that was a totally obnoxious remark with zero value.
I'm pretty sure the liberals living there pay taxes, too
How would you describe the south Bronx or Bedford Park or Brownsville?
That isn't really saying much when federal employees are paid so well. Those area's were the main beneficiaries of the Obama recovery.
Here, before I'm accused of generalizing:
Do they pay taxes, or not, Vic?
Are the homes they're buying or building exempt from property tax?
No.
Their incomes?
No.
Do they shop at local businesses?
Yes.
Are all federal employees liberals?
No.
Do you begrudge the conservatives their incomes?
Some are simply democrats. Would you say the majority of federal workers vote democrat? Honest answer.
Funny you should talk about those areas. I actually worked in Brownsville. When was the last time you were there? It's genrefying as we speak. So has the south Bronx. Bedford Park's real estate has taken a sudden jump in value. I think you might have been in the city in the 80's last.
Do they pay their taxes, Vic?
You're implying that the areas in which they live are subsidizing them. They're not. They're paying taxes, same as any conservatives who live there. If you're complaining that federal workers (and apparently only the liberal federal workers) are getting paid well, then you're going to have to acknowledge that they're probably paying fairly high taxes - higher income taxes, and they probably buy more expensive properties.
So who's subsidizing whom?
The last time I was in NYC, I took the wrong road leaving Belmont Park and ended up in a place with signs saying Canarsie this or that. I don't know what kind of neighborhood that was, but I kept saying to myself "people actually live here!" Brownsville - Iv'e never been, but Iv'e heard about it from, believe it or not, former NYC detectives. I assume it is still a young tough of a neighborhood.
It's genrefying as we speak.
Nice to hear, but I wouldn't declare victory just yet.
I think you might have been in the city in the 80's last.
2013 was my last visit.
Then you misunderstood. I was simply stating that Trump's tax fix was the correct one. We need not subsidize places that impose high taxes on their residents. You say they pay their taxes - I say good, let them pay all of their taxes.
This doesn't imply that liberals in rural areas are being subsidized?
If you say so.
I have to wonder what farmers (generally conservative) think of that tax "fix". Property tax can be a bitch if you own a lot of acreage.
No. They are simply overpaid.
I have to wonder what farmers (generally conservative) think of that tax "fix".
They will let you know in the next election.
CA dosen't want you, they want the foreign born, which represents one quarter of CA's population. They tend to vote democrat!
Your comment maybe.
So you think urban flight is beneficial to the environment.
Do you deny that rural subdivisions destroy eco systems?
Turning 80 acres of woods into a suburb is not beneficial to the environment I don't care how you slice it.
Yes I do. But that was started by taxing us to death.
No I don't. But that was not what your comment was about. Here let me remind you.
But you would be fine if they were conservatives? See for you the issue is that they are liberals, not just people.
That is your perception of things. What you're really saying, is that they move into traditionally conservative areas and then turn them purple or even blue. That is your main concern, not the subdivisions. You wouldn't complain if they were conservatives.
Vic, I don't know what you are talking about, but Belmont and the area around the park is very nice and so is Canarsie.
Brownsville the townhouses are now going for over a million, so I would say they well on their way.
I have been to where you are from and there are nice areas and not so nice areas. But unlike you, I am not being so judgy about it.
Wow thanks for telling me what I think.
So stating that Democrats live mostly in cities is untrue?
I have seen people move next to farms then take the farmers to court because they emit bad odors, or make to much noise or use to much water.
We just had a guy that bought some land next to a campground and built a house then took them to court because of the campfire smoke. Now I have seen his comments on a local community page and I would bet 100 dollars he is a Democrat.
That is exactly what my comment was about, let me remind you,
I based my comment on yours:
No, but you never said that until now.
Why would you jump to that conclusion? AH's come in all political types. I live by 2 farms, and no one behaves that way.
And the mere fact that you have "liberals" so stereotyped that they get on their high horses tells me that you have your own bias. I know loads of people across the political spectrum that get on their high horses. I don't tend to make such generalities.
BTW, your'e still dodging my question - do you think most federal workers vote democrat?
Probably. Not really sure. But it doesn't really matter, unless we're basing the tax code on political affiliation.
New Yorkers are leaving in droves to flee the massive gun violence in the city...(and also fleeing NY strict antigun laws).
(In fact many are moving to Texas where recently passed gun laws will allow them to defend themselves!
It's gonna get worse - The thin blue line is gone!
NY has the lowest gun violence of any city per capita.
148 gun deaths in a city of 8 million.
I really admire your NYC pride, but things are reverting back to pre-Giuliani days:
"Violent crimes continue to increase in 2019 in some parts of New York. Despite a massive reduction in crime since 1990, murders and rapes have been on the rise in some parts of New York in the last two years."
"Murder rates in New York City are up 55 percent in 2019 compared to the same time frame in 2018, according to NYPD statistics.
From the start of 2019 through Sunday, there have been 48 murders in New York City, compared to 31 in the same seven-week time frame in 2018, the New York Daily News reported."
Don't look now but your Police force isn't going to risk their lives without the support of the mayor.
NY has the lowest gun violence of any city per capita.
Aw c'mon Perrie-- he's already made up his mind.
Don't confuse him with actual facts!!!
Vic,
The Daily News is really down on our Mayor so I am not sure where they got their stats. The FBI stats are not even in for last year and the local stats say we that violent crime is down:
Our police are still doing their job.
You know what bothers me, is that it's just not true. I call them as I see them and although I don't like our Mayor, the city is still the safest city in the US.
The real reason people are moving is over property taxes that have been inflicted upon us by Trump. The joke here is he better not be returning to Trump Towers, because he will be paying a ton more for his pad. He'll probably reverse the cap before he leaves office.
And amazingly the Daily News is described as "LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias" by MBFC. I happen to trust the Daily News, until I see a lot of false statements, I have to believe those stats.
Because no one likes our Mayor. The information is still not right or verified.
It was part of Trump's tax bill. And it is not the cap on mortgage deductions that is hurting NY, it is the cap on property taxes that is. I would know. I am an accountant.
Somebody likes him - he got elected twice. What kind of people would do that?
There was no viable alternative running. Nicole Malliotakis who ran against him was only an state assembly person, and in experienced, so he won be default.
Only 18% of New Yorkers voted. That says a lot there.
Why do you have to take this down to such a personal level? I guess people who liked the guy, which doesn't make them horrible people, which is what I think you are implying. I live on Long Island now, so it sure wasn't me.
Obviously you don't understand what is going on, tax wise. Our taxes are for local school taxes. So what you are doing, is punishing people who care about their kids education. Have you ever wondered why NY has so many schools in the top 100 schools in the nation? It's because we pay for them with property taxes. So actually you are stealing from us. Our opting into our school taxes is being used against us. If we all opted out of our schools and had crappy schools, you wouldn't get that money. See how that works?
btw, this does not apply to CA. California pays for their schools not by local taxation but by the state. That is why you keep going on about SALT. For NY, our state taxes are the least of our problems.
That is not the discussion here.
Actually, you've been freeloading by shirking your duties to the Federal government by keeping more money local. If you believe paying high property taxes locally results in better schools, that's a choice for you to make at the ballot box. But local taxes should be totally separate from your federal obligation. It's simply unfair for some to be able to avoid their federal obligations to benefit locally.
So actually you are stealing from us.
If you believe all taxation is stealing, then I guess that's true. Somehow I doubt you are making that argument.
OK obviously you don't understand taxes or tax law. I tried to explain it to you, but you don't get it.
Again, most states pay into a statewide school system. They are not getting punished for doing that. But in NYS, we pay school taxes per town and we are getting punished for that.
No we have not. These are additional taxes paid by just a few other states. Keep watching because Texas has the same tax structure, and as their property values go up, they will feel the pinch, too. You keep talking about SALT. I am not. We are not avoiding Fed taxes, since we are paying the rest of the SALT including the property taxes that have nothing to do with out school taxes. That is why this is an unfair burden to us. You are stealing from us.
Listen up, you guys are going next. Then we'll hear about you paying over your fair share.
It's NYS internal tax structure that is being used against us. What don't you guys understand? I realize that I am the only accountant here, but this is not that hard to get.
MUVA, this has nada to do with capital gains. What are you talking about? We are not talking about selling property.
How is that condescending? I keep trying to explain the difference and you keep going back to the default answer, so my only deduction can be that you don't get what I am explaining.
And yes NYS pays much more federal taxes since the federal formula is not removing the portion of our taxes that is used for schools.
If he does that, it would be the height of hypocrisy and a total dirtbag move considering he always loved being a New Yorker.
I would assume you'd be thrilled to get rid of him.
They might be thrilled to get rid of him; but not his tax money.
He made his money here. He does most of his business here. He lives here even now. He made this dumb tax code, he should have to live with what he did.
And that is a choice. Everyone likes something else. All the young people I know love living in the city. Me, I like the north shore of LI, LOL.
That is correct.
Because in most other places in the US, school taxes are not part of the equation. They are paid through the state. I have no issue with paying the property tax, and state taxes that are what the rest of the nation pays for, but our school taxes shouldn't be part of that equation. It is not equitable.
Big deal. It didn't even make a dent because of our school taxes.
A. renters don't pay a mortgage
B. Renters don't pay property tax. The landlord does. The Fed gets its pound of flesh from the owners of the property, which includes school taxes for us in NY.
Wrong. They pay their state and regular local taxes without a grudge. What most states don't pay are local school taxes (Texas being the exception by region). Texas pays the 6th highest property taxes in the nation and you are quickly catching up to us. Let's see how you enjoy your local school taxes then.
You might want to check out this table and see that NY actually pays less state tax rate than Texas, but we pay almost the same amount when your school taxes. When you start to go over that 10K cap, I think you'll get what I am talking about.
No I didn't. What I keep repeating is that the Federal law is not fair because it assumes each state is the same. They are not It is not the same for all because each state has a different tax structure. If we all had the same tax structure then it would be the same for all.
It is only a choice if the state is given a choice or a chance to change. That was not the case here.
I'm done here. I know when someone is trying to play me.
it's beyond me how anyone can live in a city. They are nothing but concrete jungles of high rises and hoards of people crowded together.
That is a personal preference.
That’s how I framed it
Again I say, overpopulation is the problem
To the voters who voted for the man who once praised Che Guevara and used the NYPD executive protection unit to act as a moving service for his daughter, all I can say is - all the worse to you!
