Notice how he skipped right over what amnesty he'll be demanding in 10-15 years for the NEXT batch of dreamers? No Democrats want to admit that amnesty only begets more illegal aliens. It is a never ending cycle, and the Dems are okay with open borders.
So you have no problem with deporting illegal aliens? Good to know. and I expect you to stick to that when deportations occur----no matter which illegal aliens are deported for any reason.
And no amnesty? Then no need for any action on "dreamers". Also good to know, but I suspect you'll be whistling a different tune if they are deported. Whoops---I am sorry, you won't care because you aren't for amnesty don't mind deporting any illegal aliens.
So you have no problem with deporting illegal aliens?
Where did you garner that from my comments?
Good to know. and I expect you to stick to that when deportations occur----no matter which illegal aliens are deported for any reason.
Where do you come by the authority to limit my ability to have a nuanced opinion?
And no amnesty? Then no need for any action on "dreamers".
You don't seem to have an understanding of the definition of amnesty.
Also good to know, but I suspect you'll be whistling a different tune if they are deported. Whoops---I am sorry, you won't care because you aren't for amnesty don't mind deporting any illegal aliens.
If they are here illegally, US code provides for both civil and criminal punishments including fines and jail time.
Point? What part of 650,000 waiting for a hearing don't you understand? What part of about $10.000 cost for each deportation? Is your posit that we should start sweeps, arrest every 'illegal immigrant', jail them, give them all their day in court, fine them and then JAIL them?
12 million x 10,000 = 120,000,000,000
THAT doesn't include incarceration while waiting for their hearing and AFTER you convict them. That's about $20. a DAY each. YOU do the math...You STILL have to pay for the cost of deportation afterward.
Legalizing 2 million illegal immigrant “Dreamers” would cost the government $25.9 billion over the next decade, as those now-legal people would claim more tax, education and other benefits they haven’t been able to get before, the Congressional Budget Office said Friday.
No need for any lengthy hearings--you either produce documents showing you are here legally or be put on a bus to the border. A competent judge should be able to handle at least 25 such cases per day.
Too simplistic, even as a meme. We have to stop this political one-upsmanship, for it does not change how people feel one way or the other. It's just a lot of great brains draining themselves. My thoughts.
My friend, if it was simple it would not drive people to near fisticups. Tell me, what is your personal view of what should happen to Dreamers? Deep-dive your subject, if you want. However, no spin - just heart.
Sure--give dreamers a path to citizenship, but take the necessary steps to ensure that in another 10-15 years, we aren't revisiting the dreamers' issue and talking yet another round of amnesty.
Tell me, what is your personal view of what should happen to Dreamers? No Spin, just heart.
I'm okay with it. Trump even offered the Democrats 1.8 million, compared to their want of 800,000, with a path to citizenship after 12 years of being here. If I were a democrat, I'd TAKE THE DEAL that was over and above what I was looking for....if I were a Democrat that is.
The K.I.S.S. method !
STOP everything else to do with immigration into this country, that has gotten us into this debate over and over and over and over and over ...........
This is positive, though vague. However, it is not our job to solve the problem for the three branches of government, unless they want to pay us for it. The best we can hope is to come to agreement which restores calm to NT spaces!
Both, opposing extremes, should extend themselves beyond their stances by giving away a "sacred cow" to end this saga once and for all. Afterwards, each politician should be fully prepared to suffer the repercussions if any are forthcoming. A sacrifice for honor, truth, and the American Way. I'll agree to this. Hard solutions demand decision.
We all can clearly see it happening: Talking in circles is pulling the real and virtual worlds apart.
In the corporate world....sure, but in the political world, it's just about votes. That's the way it's ALWAYS been.
One thing I liked that Trump said during his talk, when they were all around the table talking about "Illegals" and immigration. He said "HE WOULD TAKE THE HEAT, HE WAS USED TO IT", as long as both parties came up with something, finally dealing with the "Illegal" and immigration issues that didn't burden "AMERICANS". Never heard a "Lifer" politician say that in my lifetime.
Then, I say, let President Trump fulfill his words. Congress as a whole get their gross and impactful bill together (whatever it is) submit it and let President Trump sign it. On to the next "presidential level" problem. But,. . .didn't President Trump double-back with four "presidential level" demands on this issue?
Congress as a whole get their gross and impactful bill together (whatever it is) submit it and let President Trump sign it.
As long as it is acceptable to what he told the voters he was going to do. That IS what he has said....."I am going to fulfill my promise to the "American" people." He's laid it out in 4 points for all too see.
"HE WOULD TAKE THE HEAT, HE WAS USED TO IT", as long as both parties came up with something, finally dealing with the "Illegal" and immigration issues that didn't burden "AMERICANS"
and,
"I am going to fulfill my promise to the "American" people." He's laid it out in 4 points."
These two President Trump expressions taken in context cancel each other out. It is inflated language, and the reason why we on NT are helpless to understand what is intended.
These two President Trump expressions taken in context cancel each other out.
Not to me (ItIsMe).
If you've noticed throughout his Presidency to date and what he has said all along, he is looking for what he spelled out in his four points last night . Since a few in this country don't like his 4 point idea, when they bring him a "THE" 4 point bill to sign (hint,hint), he will sign and "Take The Heat". Since he isn't looking to politics to make a living for himself, he really doesn't care how many of the few he pisses off.
I don't care how many of the few he pisses off either.
Were'nt those two statements distinguished by their isolation from each other? They were uttered separate and apart, I think. If I am correct, that is the cancellation I address. Furthermore, if Presdient Trump gives himself four requires, then he is not allowing Congress to negotiate immigration. The administration is 'big-footing' the process.
He said he wasn't going to deport the Dreamers and he has.
Are you speaking of Bojorquez ?
Seems to be a bit of a conflict there on he said he said.
In March 2017 U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement tweeted : “DACA is not a protected legal status, but active DACA recipients are typically a lower level of enforcement priority.”
The fact is both Democrats and Republicans want many of the same things. They both want our streets and schools to be safe so both support and vote for military funding, police and fire department funding. They want capable public schools to give our children a proper education to help them achieve their goals of being productive members of society. They want a robust economy where everyone has the chance to work if they want to work. They want to protect our constitution including the 2nd amendment, no sane American is calling for all guns to be taken away. They want a strong infrastructure including safe, reliable and economical transportation that can meet the demands of a growing economy. They both want strong border protections and a reformed immigration policy that can welcome those who want to come here and work hard while keeping out criminal elements. They all want these things because they're both raising their kids, living and working in this country. And neither desire women to get abortions.
Sadly, the ways to achieve some of their goals differ dramatically. While no Democrat wants a woman to get an abortion, they respect the right of a woman to make her own informed choice instead of wanting, as Republicans do, to simply criminalize abortion taking away women's choice. No Democrat wants to ban all guns, they simply accept what Justice Scalia concluded, that the 2nd amendment is not unlimited and they have the right to debate what "arms" should be legal and which ones can be considered "dangerous and unusual". Democrats want strong funding of the military which keeps our country safe, but they don't want to simply give away the farm to the military industrial complex so they believe in comprehensive civilian oversight. Democrats want strong border security, but they don't want to carelessly waste tax-payer money on an ineffectual and illogical border wall. As even the Presidents own staff have admitted, a 2,000 mile long solid border wall is not only impractical, it's nearly impossible and unnecessary. Democrats want safe streets and the highest quality police in our cities, but they're not going to ignore the bad apples when they present themselves or look the other way when injustices occur. They believe a police force is stronger when they act without prejudice and apply the law equally to those they serve and protect. Democrats want to invest in US infrastructure where thousands of bridges and roadways are crumbling having originally been built to last about 50-60 years but are now nearly 80 years old, but they don't want to simply privatize everything where eventually we'd be connected by thousands of private toll roads and bridges.
I think if we examine all the ways we are alike, maybe we can even bridge the gaps of where we differ. One thing I often hear is one side claiming the other "hates America" which is frankly ridiculous as both sides are "America". So if we can shelves the "You hate America" hyperbole, maybe, just maybe, we can come to some compromises on the things we can agree on. I personally have never said "Republicans hate America" because I know it to not be true. I have said 50% of them consider Russia a friend and ally which I think is extremely dangerous. I have said many of them don't see our large immigrant population as "American" which is sad because our diversity makes us stronger, not weaker. But I have never said Republicans "hate America", yet I have heard that claim made by Republicans about Democrats on a regular basis. It would seem to be a tough gap to cross when one side starts with the premise that the other "hates" their own country. Also, Republicans accuse Democrats of loving or supporting Islam but the reality is far from it. Just like with the abortion debate, Democrats support the right of a woman to choose but they're not promoting women to get abortions, and they support the right of any American to practice whatever religion they prefer but they're not promoting Islam. That's religious freedom. Just because I defend the right of Muslims to exist and worship whatever way they wish doesn't mean I support terrorists or hate Christians. I simply see both Christianity and Islam, along with Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and any other religion as having the same exact rights under our constitution. If it were the Muslims trying to put scriptures from the Koran on a giant plaque in front of our court houses on tax payer funded land I would react the same way I have when Christians put their ten commandment monuments in front of court houses.
i love how until just 2014 dems were saying the same thing on immigration as trump did last night----then they suddenly realized holy shit we have lost elections and the middle class and blue collar voters have kicked us to the curb--- now they look to import voters south of the border, it is their only chance...
There isn't much more to have to say !
It's TRUE !
Except 'Dreamers' aren't 'ILLEGALS'. They are here LEGALLY.
Only through an executive order--not through immigration law.
What will Democrats demand for the NEXT batch of illegal aliens in 10-15 years? Another round of amnesty, right? Will it ever stop?
No, they are here illegally. Any action against them has been "deferred", per the Obama Executive Order, which will shortly be ruled unconstitutional.
They are registered. They can legally go to school, travel, work and pay taxes.
Actually, in March it will run out. There will be on SCOTUS ruling. Try to keep up.
Then their deferral period will be over and they can be deported as they should be.
Notice how he skipped right over what amnesty he'll be demanding in 10-15 years for the NEXT batch of dreamers? No Democrats want to admit that amnesty only begets more illegal aliens. It is a never ending cycle, and the Dems are okay with open borders.
Better start saving your pennies. It costs about $10,000 per deportation. Do the math.
I'm not demanding amnesty now. Assume much?
Tell that to all Republicans who voted for it the first time. I thought y'all loved Ronnie.
Another BS canard.
We'll just have to start confiscating their property gere as ill gotten goods and to satisfy the fines we can impose.
See comment no. 2.1.3 from 20 hrs. ago.
So they have the legal right to work and you think that the government should confiscate their property. How libertarian of you...
BTFW, what statute contains you fantasy 'fines'? Link please.
Why, it's unresponsive to my comment.
So YOU think anyway !
So you have no problem with deporting illegal aliens? Good to know. and I expect you to stick to that when deportations occur----no matter which illegal aliens are deported for any reason.
And no amnesty? Then no need for any action on "dreamers". Also good to know, but I suspect you'll be whistling a different tune if they are deported. Whoops---I am sorry, you won't care because you aren't for amnesty don't mind deporting any illegal aliens.
We can get that cost down right away.
Either you have a legal right to be in this country, and came here legally and stayed here legally, or you didn't.
Simple. Prove you have legal authority to be here or face deportation.
If they are here illegally, US code provides for both civil and criminal punishments including fines and jail time.
They dont once the daca program ends and their exemptions expire.
Where did you garner that from my comments?
Where do you come by the authority to limit my ability to have a nuanced opinion?
You don't seem to have an understanding of the definition of amnesty.
Would you like some mustard for that pretzel?
Point? What part of 650,000 waiting for a hearing don't you understand? What part of about $10.000 cost for each deportation? Is your posit that we should start sweeps, arrest every 'illegal immigrant', jail them, give them all their day in court, fine them and then JAIL them?
12 million x 10,000 = 120,000,000,000
THAT doesn't include incarceration while waiting for their hearing and AFTER you convict them. That's about $20. a DAY each. YOU do the math...You STILL have to pay for the cost of deportation afterward.
Is that your ridiculous position?
How does that reduce to cost of deportation? Do you have a clue of the process?
Oh good, I can't wait until you tell us how much it costs to keep them here!
Actually, Dreamers pay us to stay here.
You were saying?
No need for any lengthy hearings--you either produce documents showing you are here legally or be put on a bus to the border. A competent judge should be able to handle at least 25 such cases per day.
If you aren't demanding amnesty, why would you POSSIBLY object to illegal aliens being deported?
Yes, I liked Reagan. He was foolish to think Democrats would keep their word, and we have been paying for that mistake ever since.
Hillary said she wanted open borders. Was she lying or merely pandering?
Real Americans are dreamers too.
But anti-Dreamers are not real Americans...
Words can't express how relieved and happy I am to see you.
I would love to hear the convoluted logic behind that thought.. Or was that just a pipe dream?
So people who support our laws are not Americans??
WTF are you smoking?
All about the almighty dollar eh ?
Welcome back.
Too simplistic, even as a meme. We have to stop this political one-upsmanship, for it does not change how people feel one way or the other. It's just a lot of great brains draining themselves. My thoughts.
The K.I.S.S. method, It actually works. "Round-a-bout" Jargon actually confuses people. We all know politicians luvs them some Jargon.
"We have to stop this political one-upsmanship"
What we have to do is to STOP our "American" representatives taking more interest in everything Not "America" !
Since when did "Illegals" become more important than fixing the problems within this country ?
My friend, if it was simple it would not drive people to near fisticups. Tell me, what is your personal view of what should happen to Dreamers? Deep-dive your subject, if you want. However, no spin - just heart.
Sure--give dreamers a path to citizenship, but take the necessary steps to ensure that in another 10-15 years, we aren't revisiting the dreamers' issue and talking yet another round of amnesty.
I'm okay with it. Trump even offered the Democrats 1.8 million, compared to their want of 800,000, with a path to citizenship after 12 years of being here. If I were a democrat, I'd TAKE THE DEAL that was over and above what I was looking for....if I were a Democrat that is.
The K.I.S.S. method !
STOP everything else to do with immigration into this country, that has gotten us into this debate over and over and over and over and over ...........
This is positive, though vague. However, it is not our job to solve the problem for the three branches of government, unless they want to pay us for it. The best we can hope is to come to agreement which restores calm to NT spaces!
What I conclude from your comment:
Both, opposing extremes, should extend themselves beyond their stances by giving away a "sacred cow" to end this saga once and for all. Afterwards, each politician should be fully prepared to suffer the repercussions if any are forthcoming. A sacrifice for honor, truth, and the American Way. I'll agree to this. Hard solutions demand decision.
We all can clearly see it happening: Talking in circles is pulling the real and virtual worlds apart.
In the corporate world....sure, but in the political world, it's just about votes. That's the way it's ALWAYS been.
One thing I liked that Trump said during his talk, when they were all around the table talking about "Illegals" and immigration. He said "HE WOULD TAKE THE HEAT, HE WAS USED TO IT", as long as both parties came up with something, finally dealing with the "Illegal" and immigration issues that didn't burden "AMERICANS". Never heard a "Lifer" politician say that in my lifetime.
Then, I say, let President Trump fulfill his words. Congress as a whole get their gross and impactful bill together (whatever it is) submit it and let President Trump sign it. On to the next "presidential level" problem. But,. . .didn't President Trump double-back with four "presidential level" demands on this issue?
As long as it is acceptable to what he told the voters he was going to do. That IS what he has said....."I am going to fulfill my promise to the "American" people." He's laid it out in 4 points for all too see.
I voted for your comment, because it is clearly stated. (Smile.)
And therein lies a disturbance:
"HE WOULD TAKE THE HEAT, HE WAS USED TO IT", as long as both parties came up with something, finally dealing with the "Illegal" and immigration issues that didn't burden "AMERICANS"
and,
"I am going to fulfill my promise to the "American" people." He's laid it out in 4 points."
These two President Trump expressions taken in context cancel each other out. It is inflated language, and the reason why we on NT are helpless to understand what is intended.
Not to me (ItIsMe).
If you've noticed throughout his Presidency to date and what he has said all along, he is looking for what he spelled out in his four points last night . Since a few in this country don't like his 4 point idea, when they bring him a "THE" 4 point bill to sign (hint,hint), he will sign and "Take The Heat". Since he isn't looking to politics to make a living for himself, he really doesn't care how many of the few he pisses off.
I don't care how many of the few he pisses off either.
Were'nt those two statements distinguished by their isolation from each other? They were uttered separate and apart, I think. If I am correct, that is the cancellation I address. Furthermore, if Presdient Trump gives himself four requires, then he is not allowing Congress to negotiate immigration. The administration is 'big-footing' the process.
Only if one considers those statements "inflated".
To me, and many others, they coexist....cohabitate....compliment each other.
He said he wasn't going to deport the Dreamers and he has.
Are you speaking of Bojorquez ?
Seems to be a bit of a conflict there on he said he said.
In March 2017 U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement tweeted : “DACA is not a protected legal status, but active DACA recipients are typically a lower level of enforcement priority.”
Very self explanatory.
You seem to be having an issue following the thread.
I do seem to have read your comment saying "Specifically":
"He said he wasn't going to deport the Dreamers and he has."
I gave you an example of a possibility to your "Specific" statement.
Since you didn't respond back very well, In other words....you have no clue who Bojorquez is....do you !
Yet you quoted my comment that doesn't say "Specifically".
Here, read it again: "He said he wasn't going to deport the Dreamers and he has."
Again, your comment is unresponsive to my comment. Why be petulant?
Your comment received the response it deserved.
I know that Bojorquez isn't the subject of my comment, Trump is.
I also know that isn't the ONLY proof that Trump LIED about not deporting dreamers.
That is the most cogent comment you've ever posted.
Please proceed.
You understood !
I have a way with toddlers.
I heard toddlers understand better when they see "Pictionary" examples !
It worked !
The Democrat's stunts always backfire on them.
Their little sit-in on the house floor was a joke, and not letting Americans in their Congressional House is disappointing.
The fact is both Democrats and Republicans want many of the same things. They both want our streets and schools to be safe so both support and vote for military funding, police and fire department funding. They want capable public schools to give our children a proper education to help them achieve their goals of being productive members of society. They want a robust economy where everyone has the chance to work if they want to work. They want to protect our constitution including the 2nd amendment, no sane American is calling for all guns to be taken away. They want a strong infrastructure including safe, reliable and economical transportation that can meet the demands of a growing economy. They both want strong border protections and a reformed immigration policy that can welcome those who want to come here and work hard while keeping out criminal elements. They all want these things because they're both raising their kids, living and working in this country. And neither desire women to get abortions.
Sadly, the ways to achieve some of their goals differ dramatically. While no Democrat wants a woman to get an abortion, they respect the right of a woman to make her own informed choice instead of wanting, as Republicans do, to simply criminalize abortion taking away women's choice. No Democrat wants to ban all guns, they simply accept what Justice Scalia concluded, that the 2nd amendment is not unlimited and they have the right to debate what "arms" should be legal and which ones can be considered "dangerous and unusual". Democrats want strong funding of the military which keeps our country safe, but they don't want to simply give away the farm to the military industrial complex so they believe in comprehensive civilian oversight. Democrats want strong border security, but they don't want to carelessly waste tax-payer money on an ineffectual and illogical border wall. As even the Presidents own staff have admitted, a 2,000 mile long solid border wall is not only impractical, it's nearly impossible and unnecessary. Democrats want safe streets and the highest quality police in our cities, but they're not going to ignore the bad apples when they present themselves or look the other way when injustices occur. They believe a police force is stronger when they act without prejudice and apply the law equally to those they serve and protect. Democrats want to invest in US infrastructure where thousands of bridges and roadways are crumbling having originally been built to last about 50-60 years but are now nearly 80 years old, but they don't want to simply privatize everything where eventually we'd be connected by thousands of private toll roads and bridges.
I think if we examine all the ways we are alike, maybe we can even bridge the gaps of where we differ. One thing I often hear is one side claiming the other "hates America" which is frankly ridiculous as both sides are "America". So if we can shelves the "You hate America" hyperbole, maybe, just maybe, we can come to some compromises on the things we can agree on. I personally have never said "Republicans hate America" because I know it to not be true. I have said 50% of them consider Russia a friend and ally which I think is extremely dangerous. I have said many of them don't see our large immigrant population as "American" which is sad because our diversity makes us stronger, not weaker. But I have never said Republicans "hate America", yet I have heard that claim made by Republicans about Democrats on a regular basis. It would seem to be a tough gap to cross when one side starts with the premise that the other "hates" their own country. Also, Republicans accuse Democrats of loving or supporting Islam but the reality is far from it. Just like with the abortion debate, Democrats support the right of a woman to choose but they're not promoting women to get abortions, and they support the right of any American to practice whatever religion they prefer but they're not promoting Islam. That's religious freedom. Just because I defend the right of Muslims to exist and worship whatever way they wish doesn't mean I support terrorists or hate Christians. I simply see both Christianity and Islam, along with Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and any other religion as having the same exact rights under our constitution. If it were the Muslims trying to put scriptures from the Koran on a giant plaque in front of our court houses on tax payer funded land I would react the same way I have when Christians put their ten commandment monuments in front of court houses.
Politicians bank on us forgetting anything and everything.....that's the path to stay in office.......
i love how until just 2014 dems were saying the same thing on immigration as trump did last night----then they suddenly realized holy shit we have lost elections and the middle class and blue collar voters have kicked us to the curb--- now they look to import voters south of the border, it is their only chance...
Last time I saw "Refugees Welcome" signs was in photos taken in Germany, England and Sweden. No further comment needed.
We have one here too...
Yes they will forget, as most Americans have the attention span of a gnat they will move onto the next shinny object shortly. Oops they already have.