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Today's atheists are bullies -- and they are doing their best to intimidate the rest of us into silence

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  heartland-american  •  6 years ago  •  358 comments

Today's atheists are bullies -- and they are doing their best to intimidate the rest of us into silence

There’s no polite way to say it. Atheists today are the most arrogant, ignorant and dangerous people on earth.

We’ve all seen how these pompous prigs get offended by the slightest bit of religious imagery in public and mortified if even a whisper of “Merry Christmas” escapes the lips of some well-meaning but naïve department store clerk during the “holiday season.”

To cite a few recent examples: Last December, the group American Atheists launched its annual billboard campaign with the slogan: “Just Skip Church -- It’s All Fake News.” In February, the American Humanist Association became furious when President Trump had the gall to mention Christianity and Jesus Christ without also mentioning atheists—at the National Prayer Breakfast! (How dare he!) And just this month, the Freedom From Religion Foundation raised holy hell because the Reverend Billy Graham was laid out in state in the Capitol Rotunda before his burial.

Yes, these atheists are loud, nasty, unapologetic and in-your-face.

But while their arrogance is annoying, it’s nothing compared to their ignorance. Atheists believe that the vast majority of human beings from all periods of time and all places on the Earth have been wrong about the thing most important to them. They basically dismiss this vast majority as being either moronic or profoundly naïve. What they don’t seem to know – or won’t admit – is that the greatest contributions to civilization have been made, not by atheists, but by believers.

Too many Christian authors have tried to be kind and amiable in an effort to demonstrate that believers don’t have to sink into the mud in order to defend the faith. That tact is very charitable, but unfortunately, it just doesn’t work with bullies.

Aristotle, Francis Bacon, Leonardo Da Vinci, and Isaac Newton all believed in God. Nobel-prize winner Wilhelm Rontgen, the discoverer of X-rays; Antoine Lavoisier, the father of modern chemistry; William Keen, the pioneer of brain surgery; rocket scientist Wernher von Braun; and Ernest Walton, the first person to artificially split the atom—all believed in God.

And speaking of pioneers of science, who do you think coined the term “scientist” in the first place? William Whewell, an Anglican priest and theologian! He also came up with words “physicist,” “cathode”, “anode” and many other commonly used scientific terms. Essentially, the very language used by scientists today comes from the brain of a believer.

Even the Big Bang Theory itself – which atheists mistakenly think bolsters their arguments against God – was proposed by Fr. George Lemaitre, a Belgian astronomer and Roman Catholic priest! And the father of genetics—which provides the basis for the whole theory of evolution—was Gregor Mendel, an Augustinian monk!

Yes, the new atheists have an ignorance of history bordering on madness.

But are they really dangerous, too?

You bet they are. The truth is, the atheist position is incapable of supporting any coherent system of morality other than ruthless social Darwinism. That’s why it has caused more deaths, murders and bloodshed than any other belief system in the history of the world.

Atheists, of course, are always claiming hysterically that Christianity has been responsible for most of the world’s wars, but that’s just another example of atheistic ignorance. The main reasons for war have always been economic gain, territorial gain, civil and revolutionary conflicts. According to Philip Axelrod’s monumental “Encyclopedia of Wars,” only 6.98 percent or all wars from 8000 BC to present were religious in nature. If you subtract Islamic wars from the equation, only 3.2 percent of wars were due to specifically Christian causes. That means that over 96 percent of all the wars on this planet were due to worldly reasons.

Indeed, in the last 100 years alone, upwards of 360 million people were killed by governments—and close to half of those people were killed by atheist governments!

Yes, there is a profound and frightening connection between atheism and death. Atheist leaders like Stalin, Mao Zedong, Hideki To ̄jo ̄, Pol Pot and many others bear the blame for the overwhelming majority of deaths caused by war and mass murder in history. And while many atheists make the preposterous claim that Adolf Hitler was a Christian, his private diaries, first published in 1953 by Farrar, Straus and Young, reveal clearly that the Fuhrer was a rabid atheist: “The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity,” Hitler stated, “was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew… Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of 
Christianity.” 


The facts are incontrovertible. Between the years 1900 and 2017, approximately 150 million people were killed by atheistic political regimes. 150 million!

And it makes perfect sense, doesn’t it? Atheists don’t believe in God, so they don’t believe in any transcendent, objective moral law. Nor do they believe that human beings are made in the image of God, and so they don’t believe humans possess infinite value and dignity. When you put these two beliefs together, you have a deadly recipe that makes killing “problematic” human beings quite easy and defensible.

One has only to look at the growing numbers of abortions, suicides, homicides, and cases of state-sponsored euthanasia, and infanticide, to see the atheist-death connection. As a thoroughly secular and functionally atheistic culture, we are fast becoming accustomed to “killing” our problems rather than dealing with them in a compassionate, loving, and sacrificial way.

So yes, the modern breed of atheist is arrogant, ignorant and dangerous. Too many books written in response to these pseudo-intellectual hatemongers have been altogether too nice. Too many Christian authors have tried to be kind and amiable in an effort to demonstrate that believers don’t have to sink into the mud in order to defend the faith. That tact is very charitable, but unfortunately, it just doesn’t work with bullies.

And that’s exactly what modern-day atheists are—bullies; bullies who are doing their best to intimidate the rest of us into silence.

Well, we can’t allow that to happen. As I say in my book, “Inside the Atheist Mind: Unmasking the Religion of Those Who Say There is No God,” there is only one way to deal with bullies, even in this politically correct world—and that is to stand up to them and fight them; to fight them in a bold, aggressive, and fearless way, and to fight them now.   http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/03/20/todays-atheists-are-bullies-and-are-doing-their-best-to-intimidate-rest-us-into-silence.html


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XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1  seeder  XXJefferson51    6 years ago

“The facts are incontrovertible. Between the years 1900 and 2017, approximately 150 million people were killed by atheistic political regimes. 150 million!

And it makes perfect sense, doesn’t it? Atheists don’t believe in God, so they don’t believe in any transcendent, objective moral law. Nor do they believe that human beings are made in the image of God, and so they don’t believe humans possess infinite value and dignity. When you put these two beliefs together, you have a deadly recipe that makes killing “problematic” human beings quite easy and defensible.

One has only to look at the growing numbers of abortions, suicides, homicides, and cases of state-sponsored euthanasia, and infanticide, to see the atheist-death connection. As a thoroughly secular and functionally atheistic culture, we are fast becoming accustomed to “killing” our problems rather than dealing with them in a compassionate, loving, and sacrificial way.”

 
 
 
Explorerdog
Freshman Silent
1.1  Explorerdog  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    6 years ago

Amazing that as an atheist I have profoundly more ingrained ethics that I actually live by then the self righteous almost exclusively Christians that I am surrounded by, and believe me the joke is that there is a rule that no one should be more than a half mile from a church. They have a need to impose as much of their belief system on the population as they possibly can all while having zero problem with their blatant hypocrisy. Playing the victim card is showing itself as the joker and few take it serious, in fact it seems that it is the largest motivator in turning backs on you. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.2  Greg Jones  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    6 years ago

Atheists don't bother me because I don't let them. I was raised by a Baptist fundamentalist and church and Sunday school were mandatory from the time I was 6 until I was 16. I was essentially coerced into being baptized. The product of all this religious abuse is that I started to realize it simply didn't make sense. But I had to deal with the guilt that came from not being a true and devout believer.

This guilt trip lasted well into adulthood, but watching Joseph Campbell's lectures on PBS really made it all much clearer. I am a non believer, and that's how I label myself. I have no use for grandstanding and hateful atheists and simply ignore them. I also have no use for grandstanding and hateful "Christians" I know many good people who quietly and sincerely practice their faith and live good and decent lives. Religious fanatics do more damage than they realize. I also get tired of some many articles about religion on these forum.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.3  Gordy327  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    6 years ago
Atheists don’t believe in God,

Because there's no evidence for one.

so they don’t believe in any transcendent, objective moral law.

Because morality is subjective and cannot be legislated.

Nor do they believe that human beings are made in the image of God,

Show us a picture of god then and let's see.

and so they don’t believe humans possess infinite value and dignity.

What makes you think one needs a god to have dignity or values?

When you put these two beliefs together,

What beliefs would those be? You haven't mentioned any yet.

 One has only to look at the growing numbers of abortions, suicides, homicides, and cases of state-sponsored euthanasia, and infanticide, to see the atheist-death connection.

Looks like you're seeing things that are not there. 

As a thoroughly secular and functionally atheistic culture, we are fast becoming accustomed to “killing” our problems rather than dealing with them in a compassionate, loving, and sacrificial way.”

Who's being killed exactly? And by whom?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.3.1  Tacos!  replied to  Gordy327 @1.3    6 years ago
Because there's no evidence for one.

There is evidence - tons of it - just not of the type or quantity that satisfies you . But you are not the objective arbiter of truth, so your opinion is merely that: an opinion.

morality is subjective and cannot be legislated

All laws are based on morality. Each law we write declares that X is right or wrong.

Show us a picture of god then and let's see

Sure.

"> Here you go . It's computer enhanced, but it's not like they made his butt bigger or something. I don't know if it's his best side, and it's certainly not complete, but it's not bad for a quick candid.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.3.2  Gordy327  replied to  Tacos! @1.3.1    6 years ago
There is evidence - tons of it

Such as? be specific!

just not of the type or quantity that satisfies you.

I need objective, empirical evidence to be satisfied. That's how evidence should be. You simply have none that's satisfactory to begin with.

But you are not the objective arbiter of truth, so your opinion is merely that: an opinion.

I'm interested in facts and evidence, not "truth," or your idea of "truth."

All laws are based on morality. Each law we write declares that X is right or wrong.

Wrong! Our secular laws is based on individual rights, liberties, and general welfare.

Sure. Here you go.

That's an image of space, not god. Unless you take a pantheistic view of things. But if you're claiming god is an individual entity of some  kind, then that is an epic fail!

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.3.3  Tacos!  replied to  Gordy327 @1.3.2    6 years ago
That's how evidence should be. You simply have none that's satisfactory to begin with

That's your opinion. It happens to wrong, and the result of very limited thinking.

Our secular laws is based on individual rights, liberties, and general welfare

What's so great about individual rights, liberties, and general welfare? The fact that you value those things is a morality.

That's an image of space, not god

How funny! What would an atheist know about what God looks like? Suddenly you're the expert on God? ROFL! Anyway, I believe God is everywhere, so it's an image of God. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.3.4  Gordy327  replied to  Tacos! @1.3.3    6 years ago
That's your opinion. It happens to wrong, and the result of very limited thinking.

That's the "opinion" of the scientific community in general. Science uses objective, empirical evidence. Opinion has no validity, especially without evidence. So it is clearly you who is wrong and with limited thinking.

What's so great about individual rights, liberties, and general welfare?

Is that a serious question? Or are you just being obtuse.

The fact that you value those things is a morality.

I have not said what I value. I stated factually what our laws is based on.

How funny! What would an atheist know about what God looks like?

What would a theist know too?

Suddenly you're the expert on God?

I never claimed to be. But it's funny when a theist pretends or actually believes they are experts on god.

ROFL! Anyway, I believe God is everywhere, so it's an image of God.

Then you're a pantheist. But the key word there is "believe," as in that's all it is. Belief does not equal fact. But you're free to believe whatever you want. 

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
1.3.5  epistte  replied to  Tacos! @1.3.1    6 years ago
There is evidence - tons of it - just not of the type or quantity that satisfies you. But you are not the objective arbiter of truth, so your opinion is merely that: an opinion.

Where is this evidence for any god that you claim that I won't accept?

The Bible is the work of ancient man so it cannot be proof of a god. That would be circular logic.

Why do you refuse to accept proof of gods such as Zeus, Apollo, Vishnu, and Ra? There is the very same evidence for them as there is for your god?

Why do you get to legislate your religious beliefs when you cant prove to me that your god exists? Why should your god be more important and your beliefs be legislated as secular law than the religious beliefs of any other religion?

I have explained to you many times that we do not legislate morality because there are as many ideas of what is moral as there are gods. Legislating morality is unconstitutional if we all have religious freedom to believe or not believe as we choose because that would put one religious belief over another and have the state supporting religions and a religious belief.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.3.6  Tacos!  replied to  Gordy327 @1.3.4    6 years ago
Is that a serious question? Or are you just being obtuse.

It's pretty arrogant to think that something you believe is self-evident and doesn't require proof. At least that's what you would say to me about my beliefs. Valuing the things you value is morality. Bears eat their young. What makes them right and humans wrong?

I stated factually what our laws is based on.

And I said those were moral values. You disagree. If they aren't moral values, what are they?

I never claimed to be.

Yes, you did. You said my picture of God wasn't God. You are claiming expertise over something you don't believe in.

Then you're a pantheist.

Call it whatever you like. I believe God is omnipresent. I could have posted literally any picture.

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
1.3.7  Skrekk  replied to  Tacos! @1.3.6    6 years ago

You were asked several times to provide examples of the "tons of evidence" which you claim exists for a sky fairy.

I'm not surprised that you've provided none whatsoever.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Participates
1.3.8  Randy  replied to  Skrekk @1.3.7    6 years ago

Neither am I.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.3.9  Gordy327  replied to  Tacos! @1.3.6    6 years ago
It's pretty arrogant to think that something you believe is self-evident and doesn't require proof. At least that's what you would say to me about my beliefs.

I have made no mention of my beliefs. And based on your post, your beliefs revolve around pantheism.

Valuing the things you value is morality.

No, those are only things I value. Morality is not the same as values.

Bears eat their young. What makes them right and humans wrong?

When did the topic shift to bears?

And I said those were moral values. You disagree.

Because you are wrong. They might share similarities with certain moral values. But they are not based on morality itself.

If they aren't moral values, what are they?

They are exactly what I said they are.

Yes, you did. You said my picture of God wasn't God.

It wasn't. Your picture was of space. If you want to call that "god," that's your prerogative. That doesn't actually make it "god" though. Just like a child who calls a fluffy cloud shaped like a bunny rabbit a bunny rabbit. But that doesn't make the cloud a rabbit. 

You are claiming expertise over something you don't believe in.

Wrong again!

Call it whatever you like.

I call it what it is.

I believe God is omnipresent. I could have posted literally any picture.

As I said, that is a pantheist view of things. But that's still nothing more than mere belief. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.3.10  Gordy327  replied to  Skrekk @1.3.7    6 years ago
You were asked several times to provide examples of the "tons of evidence" which you claim exists for a sky fairy.

What's funny is that any "evidence" he provides for a god, I can easily turn around and say it's evidence for fairies, leprechauns, and gnomes.

I'm not surprised that you've provided none whatsoever.

Didn't you see that picture of space, er..., I mean, "god" he posted? Laugh

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
1.3.11  magnoliaave  replied to  Tacos! @1.3.6    6 years ago

I'm with you.  Atheists are so boring...same answers!

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
1.3.12  Freefaller  replied to  magnoliaave @1.3.11    6 years ago
Atheists are so boring...same answers!

To be fair the same statement could be made about the religious (well there might be some variation depending on the religion)

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
1.3.13  epistte  replied to  magnoliaave @1.3.11    6 years ago
Atheists are so boring...same answers!

2+2 is always 4.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.3.14  Trout Giggles  replied to  Freefaller @1.3.12    6 years ago

You wanna know what's really boring? Discussing Christianity with someone who hasn't even read their Bible or understand it.

That happens a lot around here

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
1.3.15  katrix  replied to  magnoliaave @1.3.11    6 years ago

At least the "same answers" are based on logic and reality, rather than the need to believe in an evil boogeyman in order to behave properly.

There isn't anything moral about needing to fear a god before you can bother to behave properly.  Atheists can be moral without needing to be threatened.  The born-agains seem to be the most hateful group out there, not to mention the least logical.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
1.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    6 years ago
One has only to look at the growing numbers of abortions

"The abortion rate also continued to decline, falling to 14.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44, the lowest rate ever recorded, and a 14% decline from 2011."

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.4.1  Gordy327  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.4    6 years ago
"The abortion rate also continued to decline, falling to 14.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44, the lowest rate ever recorded, and a 14% decline from 2011."

He doesn't seem interested in facts or studies. Only in bias and propaganda, among other nonsense.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
1.5  charger 383  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    6 years ago
look at the growing numbers of abortions,

what does that have to do with atheists being bullies?   seems religion is being the bully here.  Bullying women into having kids they don't really want or telling then not to have sex, which is a natural drive and to the religious must have come from their God  (just another thing that does not fit together)

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
1.5.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  charger 383 @1.5    6 years ago
what does that have to do with atheists being bullies?

Not only does it have nothing to do with atheists, it's a patently false statement.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Participates
2  Randy    6 years ago

Atheists don't care if you believe in your sky fairy and never did and never will. Just so you keep your myth out of the government and the public schools and our lives. You and other Christians are making up a so called war on yourselves every once in awhile as a way of making yourselves feel like martyrs and to make your dicks hard and if that gets your rocks off, go for it, but don't expect anyone to believe your bullshit.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Randy @2    6 years ago

A little crude, but accurate.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1    6 years ago

Atheists are always running around trying to silence Christian voices around the country and yet globally they have caused for problems than any other belief system.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.1.2  Gordy327  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.1    6 years ago
Atheists are always running around trying to silence Christian voices around the country and yet globally they have caused for problems than any other belief system.

And Christians are always running around the country trying to deny certain rights to certain groups or try impose their religious BS on the rest of us. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.3  devangelical  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.1    6 years ago

Thumpers that go thumping outside of their church or home should be prepared to deal with the exercise of free speech by others.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.4  MrFrost  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.1    6 years ago
Atheists are always running around trying to silence Christian voices around the country

Huh? I never have had an atheist on my porch telling me what to believe in, not once. But I do get bible babblers on my porch about once a week trying to force their cult on me. Silence their voices? If that's true the atheists are doing a terrible job of it. 

You have freedom of religion, that's all you are getting, deal with it or get the eff out of the country. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.5  MrFrost  replied to  devangelical @2.1.3    6 years ago
Thumpers that go thumping outside of their church or home should be prepared to deal with the exercise of free speech by others.

True, but they literally think that "freedom of religion" applies to THEIR religion, no one else's. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.1.6  MrFrost  replied to  Gordy327 @2.1.2    6 years ago
And Christians are always running around the country trying to deny certain rights to certain groups or try impose their religious BS on the rest of us.

Yep. 

Of course it won't stand given that it's legal nation wide, per the SCOTUS. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.7  Ozzwald  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.1    6 years ago
Atheists are always running around trying to silence Christian voices around the country and yet globally they have caused for problems than any other belief system.

Examples?  Anything to support even 1 of your claims?

I didn't think so.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.1.8  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.1    6 years ago
Atheists are always running around trying to silence Christian voices around the country and yet globally they have caused for problems than any other belief system.

If atheists were trying to silence you then how can you post your 5 threads a day on this forum?

Christians have the very same free speech rights in the US as everyone else. The fact that you cannot trample the rights of atheists doesn't mean that your rights or speech is being infringed.  Grow up and learn logic so you can outgrow your celestial pacifier. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.9  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.4    6 years ago

Nope.  Nothing less than the free excercise there of, will do.  And it must be applied to all believers in all walks of life and all earning a living.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.10  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.5    6 years ago

Religious speech is constitutionally protected free speech that can be freely engaged in anywhere any time in America.  Counter free speech is also allowed as long as it doesn’t drown out or prevent opposing speech from being heard.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Participates
2.1.11  Randy  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.4    6 years ago
Huh? I never have had an atheist on my porch telling me what to believe in, not once.

Though I will have to admit that when a thumper comes to my door I have been tempted to grab my copy of Dawkins' "The God Delusion" and say something along the lines of "Have you heard the good news! There is no god! No Christ! No Heaven or Hell! Hallelujah!" Just to see what they'd say. Or maybe go door to door myself and do it! laughing dude

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.1.12  epistte  replied to  Randy @2.1.11    6 years ago

 Tell them to pray that you stop being an atheist and to stop by in 3 weeks to see if the prayer worked.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Participates
2.1.13  Randy  replied to  epistte @2.1.12    6 years ago

Laugh

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.14  devangelical  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.10    6 years ago

It's every patriotic American's duty to confront any unconstitutional imposition of non-secular ideology and defend the establishment clause of the 1st amendment.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.15  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  devangelical @2.1.14    6 years ago

Religious people have a right to vote and to run for office.  They have the right to promote laws for the general welfare that would improve things as well as a patriotic duty to preserve the free excercise there of clause of the 1st amendment of all people and their beliefs or lack there of.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.1.16  Gordy327  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.15    6 years ago
They have the right to promote laws for the general welfare

But all laws cannot be based on religious ideology, per the separation of church and state.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.17  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.4    6 years ago
You have freedom of religion, that's all you are getting, deal with it

love it

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
2.1.18  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.17    6 years ago

no watt I luv

teaching atheist Sunday school

every Sunday,

especially hot fudge

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.19  devangelical  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.15    6 years ago

Thumper politicians have a patriotic duty to keep their religious agendas at home while on the clock for Americans that have the mental ability to comprehend the Constitution.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.20  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @2.1.19    6 years ago

People don't have to leave their particular religious agendas anywhere.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.21  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.20    6 years ago

Thumpers were all created with an easy to reach storage place for their religious agendas.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
2.1.22  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.20    6 years ago
People don't have to leave their particular religious agendas anywhere.

ever here of separation of church and state ,

or are you divorced from such a reality ?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.23  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.1.22    6 years ago

Yes, there is a separation, but there are also overlaps.

Are you suggesting that we shouldn't have laws against murder because God commanded "Thou shalt not kill"?

And nothing about separation prevents any politician from espousing their views.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.24  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @2.1.21    6 years ago

is it easier for you to insult and demean because you don't understand?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
2.1.25  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.23    6 years ago
And nothing about separation prevents any politician from espousing their views

come again

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.26  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.1.25    6 years ago

What part don't you get?

Can a politician not say publicly that he believes in God?

And try to do his political job in accordance with those beliefs?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
2.1.27  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.26    6 years ago
What part don't you get?

The part where a pol uses his religious beliefs to push forth an agenda that contradicts the term separation of church and state.

Which part don't you get ?

I don't care what people believe about religion, I just don't want it forced on any.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.28  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.1.27    6 years ago

Any politician can do what he wishes. He can not, however, pass any laws regarding the establishment of a national religion.

Advocating for Jewish principles, or Christian principles, or Muslim principals, or ANY religious principles isn't outlawed.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.29  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.1.27    6 years ago

No one is forcing anything to do with religion on you.

Perhaps your parents forced it on you, but now you are an adult and choose for yourself what you choose to believe.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
2.1.30  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.29    6 years ago
No one is forcing anything to do with religion on you.

Then you'd agree that prayers on public property at public events when many people (or even one)  in the gathering are not willing to participate should not occur.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.31  Texan1211  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @2.1.30    6 years ago

Nope--because no one is forced to participate.

If they MADE people pray, that would be a violation to me. 

Just because some wish to pray isn't a violation in my book.

And as long as there are tests in school, I am pretty confident that there will be prayer in schools.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.32  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.24    6 years ago

I understand my right to be free from having to listen to any bible babble from public servants.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.33  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @2.1.32    6 years ago

Yes you HAVE the right to not listen.

That right doesn't preclude you from hearing it, nor does it prevent anyone from saying it.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.34  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.29    6 years ago
No one is forcing anything to do with religion on you.

Tell that to any woman trying to get an abortion.

Tell that to children in some southern states that are being taught creationism along side evolution in Biology class.

Tell that to the tax payers in Kentucky who had some of their taxes go to the Noah's Ark center.

Tell that to same sex couples who have had to fight for years for the right to marry, and the states that are still trying to block that right.

Tell that to all the Presidential candidates (almost all Republican) who have openly stated that they are running because "God told them to".

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.1.35  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.15    6 years ago
They have the right to promote laws for the general welfare that would improve things as well as a patriotic duty to preserve the free excercise there of clause of the 1st amendment of all people and their beliefs or lack there of.

You can vote for Mickey Mouse it for want to. Consider some of the people who are Republicans, electing Minnie or Mickey Mouse would be preferable.

Legislating your morality only works for people that are a member of your church. Others have the very same right to live and believe as they choose but passing laws that endorse your religious beliefs infringe on their religious beliefs as well as those who are not a member of any religion. 

Your free exercise rights are not in any way inhibited by the strict separation of church and state.  The 1st Amendment says that I don't have to obey your religious commands.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.36  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.34    6 years ago

Well, you don't know if God told them to run or not, and if He did tell them, what business is it of yours? If you don't like a  candidate, don't vote for them--problem (??) solved.

tax dollars didn't go to Noah's Ark in Kentucky. They got a tax BREAK, just like many businesses that have the promise for hundreds of jobs.

people are opposed to abortion for more than just religious reasons, and everyone who is religious is not necessarily against abortion.

I have no religion, and I don't oppose abortion. I think it is a crappy form of birth control considering how many types we have and how readily available they are. But I wouldn't WANT people too dumb to use effective birth control to EVER reproduce.

I also don't give a crap on who marries who.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
2.1.37  charger 383  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.36    6 years ago
"But I wouldn't WANT people too dumb to use effective birth control to EVER reproduce."
I very much agree with you on that
 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.1.38  epistte  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.24    6 years ago
is it easier for you to insult and demean because you don't understand?

Because it is factual. These were written almost 2000 years ago.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. - Seneca (ca. 4
All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher. - Lucretius (94 BC - 49 BC)
Do you understand this quote?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Epicurus
 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.39  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.36    6 years ago
Well, you don't know if God told them to run or not, and if He did tell them, what business is it of yours? If you don't like a  candidate, don't vote for them--problem (??) solved.

Moving the goalposts again??

We're talking about religion, NOT whether God exists.  In the above example, religion has just limited my choice on who I can vote for.  And stating it is a blatant attempt to curry favor with religious groups.

tax dollars didn't go to Noah's Ark in Kentucky. They got a tax BREAK, just like many businesses that have the promise for hundreds of jobs.

Semantics.  Either they are getting tax money or are being supported by tax money.

Noah’s Ark theme park getting $1.8 million state tax rebate after first year

people are opposed to abortion for more than just religious reasons, and everyone who is religious is not necessarily against abortion.

Really?  What argument can you provide, non-religious, that opposes ( NON-LATE TERM ) abortions, including in cases of rape or incest?

  • Pain?  Nope...science says no.
  • It's a human being?  Nope...many miscarriages are further along, no police investigations when that happens.
  • Laziness?  Why do you care, you are in no way affected by her choice.
  • Sex is only for procreation.  Says the religious person who has never had good sex.
But I wouldn't WANT people too dumb to use effective birth control to EVER reproduce.

That one statement shows just how sociopathic some people are.  You have absolutely no empathy for rape victims, people too poor to afford birth control after Republicans have driven out all Planned Parenthood clinics, or people whose birth control failed.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.40  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.39    6 years ago

Moving the goalposts?

WTF?
YOU brought up God talking to politicians, not me.

Leftists often seem to confuse people keeping more of their own money as some weird type of government giveaway of tax dollars. It isn't.

Abortion. Why would it matter one iota at what point during pregnancy the mother receives the abortion?

Either the baby she is carrying is a human or it isn't human.

And my statement about people too dumb to effectively use one of the myriad forms of birth control stands. Why would we as a society WANT those people reproducing? By all means, I hope they DO get abortions. People who can't afford to have kids shouldn't be having them.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
2.1.41  mocowgirl  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.36    6 years ago
Well, you don't know if God told them to run or not,

Which god?  Zeus?  Apollo?  Odin?  

Why would a god care about elections, football games, award shows?  Shouldn't a "loving" god be tending to the millions of children it created that need its help to survive the poverty, and/or abusive, hostile environment that the "loving" god created for it to be born into?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.42  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  mocowgirl @2.1.41    6 years ago

This isn’t any longer the environment that God created for us to be in.  This world is in rebellion and the evil one has temporary dominion over it until the 2nd coming.  Thus Christians consider ourselves to be apart from this world, committed to seeing the next one replace this one as we know it.  

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
2.1.43  mocowgirl  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.42    6 years ago
This isn’t any longer the environment that God created for us to be in.

 So you believe in the Garden of Eden and original sin and disbelieve in evolution?

Also, is Yahweh responsible for conception or is Yahweh just a bystander and doesn't know if a sperm is going to fertilize an egg?

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
2.1.44  katrix  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.42    6 years ago

For crying out loud.  The world is the same as it's always been - your god either doesn't exist, or doesn't give a rat's ass.  The world is a lot more moral than it was in biblical times, at least in many countries (not nearly enough, because fundie religion is still too dominant in too many places).  No more selling rape victims to their rapists.  Mo more women being owned by men, or slavery.  No more of the state killing people who you think blasphemed your particular interpretation of your god.  No more murdering people for their sexual orientation.  No more condemning women for having sex, while men get a free ride.  Oh wait .. those things are still happening, because of fundamentalist religion, and the lack of morality it breeds in its brainwashed followers.

I know, you'd love to see Christian Sharia Law so these "moral" practices you so miss could be legally returned to us, instead of being on their way out.   Remember the days of Henry VIII, and after his death. Papist, Protestant, Papist, Protestant .. so many people killed over stupid myths, forced to switch faiths at the drop of a crown.  Even if your god does exist, do you really think it wants its followers committing such atrocities in its name (and if you do think that, why would you worship it)?  Separation of church and state protects you as much as it protects me.   But your brain can't even accept those facts.  If you get the country you want, you might be the next one beheaded for not following the exact same interpretation of the bible as your new leader.  Be careful.  Be very, very careful what you wish for.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.1.45  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.42    6 years ago
Thus Christians consider ourselves to be apart from this world, committed to seeing the next one replace this one as we know it.

Nobody is keeping you here against your will. Go off and rapture yourselves if that is what you want but leave us out of your insane religious fantasies.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.46  Trout Giggles  replied to  epistte @2.1.45    6 years ago

It's also very dangerous thinking. If HA's Christians are separating themselves from this world, then they don't care what happens to it. Thus...we have increased pollution in our air and water which kills the planet and then ultimately us

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.47  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.40    6 years ago
YOU brought up God talking to politicians, not me.

I brought up religion with people claiming their god talked to them.

Leftists often seem to confuse people keeping more of their own money as some weird type of government giveaway of tax dollars. It isn't.

WOW, yet religious institution get to keep all of their money unlike everyone else, yet they still make use of tax funded infrastructure and projects.

Abortion. Why would it matter one iota at what point during pregnancy the mother receives the abortion?

Either the baby she is carrying is a human or it isn't human.

Wow, we agree.  AND up to the point that it could survive on its own, IT IS NOT HUMAN.  I notice that you are completely ignoring the point or who determines if and when it is a human being.  Ask a pro-life and they'll start quoting religious texts to you.

Why would we as a society WANT those people reproducing? By all means, I hope they DO get abortions. People who can't afford to have kids shouldn't be having them.

so·ci·o·path
ˈsōsēōˌpaTH
noun
a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.2  Tacos!  replied to  Randy @2    6 years ago
Atheists don't care

They clearly do, or they wouldn't buy billboard space trying to discourage people from celebrating Christmas.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
2.2.1  bbl-1  replied to  Tacos! @2.2    6 years ago

My gawd.  Another right wing attack on XMAS.  Let it be.  Little kids want their presents.  Wish the conservatives would quit screwing with the darn holidays.  Merry Christmas.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
2.2.2  charger 383  replied to  Tacos! @2.2    6 years ago

Christmas is fun

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.2.3  Tacos!  replied to  bbl-1 @2.2.1    6 years ago
Another right wing attack on XMAS.

What right winger is attacking Christmas?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.2.4  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  charger 383 @2.2.2    6 years ago

You are right.  Christ mass should be a Holy day that everyone benefits from.  It’s an opportunity to share His story.  

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.2.5  epistte  replied to  Tacos! @2.2    6 years ago
They clearly do, or they wouldn't buy billboard space trying to discourage people from celebrating Christmas.

Atheists have free speech rights 365 days of the year. Thery can also tell you to think rationally instead of celebrating zombie Jesus next weekend.

  If you are threatened by a billboard then see a phychlogist because the problem is not with them but you.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
2.2.6  charger 383  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.2.4    6 years ago

That's your big day and I also enjoy it.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.2.7  It Is ME  replied to  epistte @2.2.5    6 years ago
Thery can also tell you to think rationally

What IS "Rational" anyway.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
2.2.8  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Tacos! @2.2    6 years ago
they wouldn't buy billboard space trying to discourage people from celebrating Christmas.

"They" aren't doing any such thing.  The billboard messages are a reminder that a large number of people do not celebrate Christmas and that those who do do not have the right to intrude their religious beliefs into every public space.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.9  Ozzwald  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.2.4    6 years ago
Christ mass should be a Holy day that everyone benefits from.  It’s an opportunity to share His story.

Except it's not.  If Jesus existed, the Bible clearly shows his birth in the May time frame not December. 

So Happy Saturnalia to everyone.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.2.4    6 years ago
It’s an opportunity to share His story.

more proselytizing from our resident proselytizer

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.2.11  epistte  replied to  Ozzwald @2.2.9    6 years ago
So Happy Saturnalia to everyone.

A blessed Yule to you.

Christians stole Easter from the Pagans and didn't bother to change the name. Easter was traditionally the spring fertility festival and that is where eggs and rabbits come from. 

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
2.2.12  katrix  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.10    6 years ago

i guess I'm going to have to find a way to post Celestina's Elevenish Ways to Kill a Peep in here.  This would be the first Easter in years without that.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.2.13  epistte  replied to  katrix @2.2.12    6 years ago

I have a special avatar for holy week.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3  JohnRussell    6 years ago

Oh goody, another long argument between Christians and Atheists on Newstalkers. What a novelty. 

Will anyone say anything original this time? 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @3    6 years ago

Your contribution to that is welcome here.  

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
3.1.1  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.1    6 years ago
Your contribution to that is welcome here.

After a tragedy why do Christians pray to the same god that did nothing to prevent it?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
3.1.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  epistte @3.1.1    6 years ago
After a tragedy why do Christians pray to the same god that did nothing to prevent it?

Because God is allegedly all knowing and seeing, it's easy to C, why  god could not prevent anything, from inevitably happening.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.3  Gordy327  replied to  epistte @3.1.1    6 years ago
After a tragedy why do Christians pray to the same god that did nothing to prevent it?

Indeed. God has a terrible track record of preventing anything. Or maybe they think praying is like playing the lottery: long odds, but if you play enough, eventually you might win.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.3    6 years ago

Some people seem to have difficulty with the concept of free will.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.5  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.4    6 years ago
Some people seem to have difficulty with the concept of free will.

Some people also have difficulty with the concept that if there was a god, then there would be no such thing as free will. But if prayer somehow impedes free will, then there is no point to prayer or to worshipping a god that does nothing. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.5    6 years ago

Why could God not grant free will to people?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.5    6 years ago

Prayer does nothing to hinder free will.

One must first CHOOSE to pray.

Then must choose WHAT to pray about.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.8  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.5    6 years ago
then there would be no such thing as free will.

The only limiter to "FREE" will are "Mans" laws ....... And they GROW every day !

How many laws do you need from "Man" to "Tell" us that murder/killing is wrong.

God had "ONE" fucking commandment on that ....... "Thou shall NOT KILL".......... Period !

Haven't seen Gods Laws changed by God......YET !

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.9  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.6    6 years ago
Why could God not grant free will to people?

Because god already knows in advance what people will do or "choose." In effect, people are created with god knowing full well what they will do and how their lives will turn out as a result. So that's not free will, but rather predetermination.

Prayer does nothing to hinder free will.

Prayer does nothing at all.

One must first CHOOSE to pray. Then must choose WHAT to pray about.

If prayer altered an outcome or altered a person's actions to influence an outcome, then that is an effect on free will.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.10  Bourbon Street  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.7    6 years ago
Prayer does nothing to hinder free will.

Neither does God - in fact He insists on free will, believe or don't. Neither do His Churches. Nobody is forced to worship.

Faith - by definition - is "belief without proof". Funny how some atheists attack others for their beliefs, yet atheists can no more prove what they believe than can those they attack.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.11  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.8    6 years ago
Haven't seen Gods Laws changed by God......YET !

Since "god's laws" are nothing more than man's writing and attributing it to god, and since there is probably no god, it's not likely to be changed anytime soon.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.12  Gordy327  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.10    6 years ago
atheists attack others for their beliefs, yet atheists can no more prove what they believe than can

Do tell, what do atheists "believe" exactly?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.9    6 years ago

And what exactly do you base your belief that God knows beforehand how people will choose to act?

You choose to believe that prayer does nothing.

Others believe differently.

I believe that prayer works in MY life.

I won't claim it works for anyone else.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.14  Bourbon Street  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.9    6 years ago
If prayer altered an outcome

The brother of a close friend was diagnosed with brain cancer and expected to live a matter of six months with most of it being in a comma. He instead lived over six years, saw his sons grow up, had time with his wife and family that was completely unexpected.

His friends and family believe that the power of prayer was at least partially responsible - and right or wrong does not diminish the appreciation for the gift of those six years.

Explain how this outcome - as you say - affected free will.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.15  Bourbon Street  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.12    6 years ago

They believe God does not exist.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.16  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.11    6 years ago
Since "god's laws" are nothing more than man's writing

Are they ?

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.17  Bourbon Street  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.16    6 years ago

Well - that is what he believes. Can he prove it - or is it part of his faith?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.18  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.9    6 years ago

You fail to see the difference between God knowing what people will choose and their ability to freely choose what to do.

The two concepts are NOT incompatible.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.19  It Is ME  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.17    6 years ago
or is it part of his faith?

winking

They actually have a "Faith" ?

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
3.1.20  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.10    6 years ago
atheists attack others for their beliefs, yet atheists can no more prove what they believe than can

Nooo, atheists are attacked for not believing in sky fairies and we no longer hide away and let those attacks go unanswered.  I couldn't care less what you care to believe but I do give quite the shit about believers trying to control the society I live in by forcing their beliefs into law and working the government to their political and financial benefit (i.e., e.g., public funding for religious schools or monuments and icons  being put on public property and maintained at public expense to name just a couple).  But, you're right on one thing.  You can't prove something doesn't exist since, by definition, something that doesn't exist cannot be subjected to testing (i.e., is "unfalsifiable").  On the other hand, if there is a god, shouldn't you be able to prove its existence?  No proof has ever been given so it is, as you say, entirely based on unfounded belief.  For some reason, that doesn't seem enough for many of these "believers."  Faith alone should be but it sure sticks in their craw when it's pointed out that's all they've got. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.21  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.13    6 years ago
And what exactly do you base your belief that God knows beforehand how people will choose to act?

Is god not omniscient? I thought that was one of the basic attributes of god. But I suppose it depends on how one defines god.

You choose to believe that prayer does nothing.

It's not a belief. It's a fact backed by scientific study. Praying for something does not produce any tangible benefit outside of one's own self.

Others believe differently.

That is their prerogative. But belief does not equal fact.

I believe that prayer works in MY life.

See previous statement.

I won't claim it works for anyone else.

That's good.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.22  Gordy327  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.14    6 years ago
The brother of a close friend was diagnosed with brain cancer and expected to live a matter of six months with most of it being in a comma. He instead lived over six years, saw his sons grow up, had time with his wife and family that was completely unexpected.

Good for him.

His friends and family believe that the power of prayer was at least partially responsible -

They can believe whatever they want. I'm sure prayer and belief provided some emotional comfort.

and right or wrong does not diminish the appreciation for the gift of those six years. Explain how this outcome - as you say - affected free will.

Prove that prayer itself had any effect on the outcome.  

They believe God does not exist.

That's not a belief. Atheists simply do not accept claims of a god or the existence of a god. A lack of belief is not a belief in itself.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.23  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.16    6 years ago
Are they ?

Yes! If you're going to claim "god's laws" are actually from god, then you first have to prove there is a god to begin with for that claim to have any validity.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.24  Phoenyx13  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.18    6 years ago

You fail to see the difference between God knowing what people will choose and their ability to freely choose what to do.

The two concepts are NOT incompatible.

i'm told God is all-knowing and all-seeing etc etc... freewill involves the element of surprise (unknown) - you don't know what that person will definitely choose (you can guess on probability etc but can't know definitely 100% for sure). If God is all-knowing etc then there is no freewill since no matter what the person chooses - God already knew (it's already predetermined), there's no element of surprise (unknown) which is vital for freewill to exist.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.25  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.21    6 years ago

Kind of funny that you argue if God is omniscient when you don't believe in God.

That is illogical.

Either

A) You believe in God. Then you can discuss whether you believe He is omniscient. 

OR

B) You don't believe in God, making whether He is omniscient a moot point.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.26  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.18    6 years ago
You fail to see the difference between God knowing what people will choose and their ability to freely choose what to do.

And you fail to understand that god knowing what choices one will make in advance before they even know themselves means their "choice" is predetermined and cannot be altered. Unless god is wrong.

The two concepts are NOT incompatible.

Yes, they ARE! Especially from a logical standpoint.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.27  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.23    6 years ago
then you first have to prove there is a god to begin with for that claim to have any validity.

Same would go for ...."Prove there isn't a God" then.

Now doesn't that sound Stupid ?

Since there seems to be more good than evil, I'd say there is more proof leaning towards Gods Word than not.

Besides....and think about this....Who the fuck decided we needed ALL the DIFFERENT species of animals on this earth. A Giraffe.....Really ? Wouldn't ONE type species have sufficed ?

Who or what decided we needed diversity, before diversity became popular ?

Interesting thought huh ! geek

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.28  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.25    6 years ago
Kind of funny that you argue if God is omniscient when you don't believe in God.

I'm arguing no such thing. I'm simply pointing out how some religions, especially the Abrahamistic religions, view god with certain attributes. Omniscience being one of them.

That is illogical.

Not even a little.

Either
A) You believe in God. Then you can discuss whether you believe He is omniscient.
OR
B) You don't believe in God, making whether He is omniscient a moot point.

My belief or lack thereof in a god has no bearing on my ability to discuss the attributes associated with it.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.29  Texan1211  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.24    6 years ago

There is a distinct difference between GOD knowing and PEOPLE knowing. people don't know what they will do in advance in many instances. People have free will to do as they wish.

God may know what they will choose, but HE isn't choosing FOR them. It is up to the person.

Free will exists.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.30  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.27    6 years ago
Same would go for ...."Prove there isn't a God" then. Now doesn't that sound Stupid ?

Of course it's stupid, as that is a logical fallacy. I find that is the typical reply of theists when challenged to prove there is a god.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.31  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.28    6 years ago

It is inconsistent to argue there IS no God while also arguing He is omniscient.

if HE exists, it is possible for HIM to be omniscient. If HE does NOT exist, then it is impossible for HIM to be omniscient.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.32  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.29    6 years ago
God may know what they will choose, but HE isn't choosing FOR them. It is up to the person.

If god already knows what they will choose, then their choice is determined in advance, with no possibility of altering that choice. Free will becomes nothing more than an illusion.

It is inconsistent to argue there IS no God while also arguing He is omniscient.

I am not arguing whether there is a god or not.

if HE exists, it is possible for HIM to be omniscient. If HE does NOT exist, then it is impossible for HIM to be omniscient.

If there was a god, then he is either omniscient or he is not. But omniscience is an attribute assigned to such a god, regardless of whether one believes in a god or not. How do you not get that?

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.33  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.30    6 years ago
Of course it's stupid, as that is a logical fallacy.

No...it's not. One can show ALL the good on this earth, which is referenced throughout history as a GOD thing.

Are you saying the bad outweighs the good ?

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.34  Phoenyx13  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.29    6 years ago

There is a distinct difference between GOD knowing and PEOPLE knowing. people don't know what they will do in advance in many instances. People have free will to do as they wish.

from a person's point of view - they are under the illusion they have freewill if God is all-knowing since God already knows what the person will do so their choice is predetermined (in other words, there's no other option for that person - they will choose a certain choice no matter what since God already knows what that choice is that is chosen)

God may know what they will choose, but HE isn't choosing FOR them. It is up to the person.

God doesn't have to choose for any person - the choice is already predetermined since God already knows what they will choose, the person isn't given the freedom (or freewill) to choose an option that God wouldn't know (which is a necessary option for freewill to exist)

Free will exists.

i absolutely disagree and have given the reasons why.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.35  Phoenyx13  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.33    6 years ago
No...it's not.

it's absolutely a logical fallacy that falls along the lines of "prove that Leprechauns and Unicorns don't exist !" or "prove that Lime Green Hippos with 2 noses don't exist !"

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.36  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.32    6 years ago

You keep saying that.

it doesn't make it so. People's choices aren't made in advance. They make their own choices as they go through life. Do you know without a shadow of a doubt what you would do if someone murdered your spouse or parents? or what exactly you would do if a family member was raped? or if you are going to blow through a long yellow light beforehand?

Just because God may know beforehand what they will choose does not in any way, shape, or form diminish their own ability to exercise free will.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.37  It Is ME  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.35    6 years ago
it's absolutely a logical fallacy that falls along the lines of "prove that Leprechauns and Unicorns don't exist !" or "prove that Lime Green Hippos with 2 noses don't exist !"

It's not a "Fallacy"....it's what one thinks !

You say Nay....I say Yay.

I can't prove what you say, and you can't prove what I say....but we BOTH believe in what we believe.

Are you right....or am I right....or does it really NOT fucking matter in the overall scheme of things.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.38  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.33    6 years ago
No...it's not.

Yes it is! It's the proving a negative fallacy.

One can show ALL the good on this earth, which is referenced throughout history as a GOD thing.

That doesn't actually make it a god thing. That just makes for theistic stories. You would still have to prove there's a god if you're going to attribute goodness to god.

It's not a "Fallacy"....it's what one thinks !

Do you even know what a logical fallacy is?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.39  Texan1211  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.34    6 years ago

But the PEOPLE don't know what God does, so they have no idea what to choose to do.

That is free will. they can choose whatever options they want to.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.40  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.38    6 years ago
Yes it is! It's the proving a negative fallacy.

Your the negative one.....So....I guess YOU can't Prove what you say.

Like I really give a shit in the first place, but the argument is fun. winking

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.41  Texan1211  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.34    6 years ago

So we disagree.

No problem with that, as I have never tried to convert anyone to my way of thinking regarding God.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.42  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.36    6 years ago
You keep saying that. it doesn't make it so.

Speak for yourself.

People's choices aren't made in advance.

They are if you believe god is omniscient and creates people.

They make their own choices as they go through life.

Therein  lies the illusion.

Do you know without a shadow of a doubt what you would do if someone murdered your spouse or parents? or what exactly you would do if a family member was raped? or if you are going to blow through a long yellow light beforehand?

Yeah, pretty much. From a psychological standpoint, it's pretty obvious.

Just because God may know beforehand what they will choose does not in any way, shape, or form diminish their own ability to exercise free will.

It also means that said choices are set in stone. If god knows what "choice" I make in advance, there is no way I can choose any differently that the choice god knows I will already make.

But the PEOPLE don't know what God does, so they have no idea what to choose to do.

What god does is irrelevant. It's what god already knows that is the issue.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.43  Phoenyx13  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.39    6 years ago

But the PEOPLE don't know what God does, so they have no idea what to choose to do.

That is free will. they can choose whatever options they want to.

whether the people know or not is irrelevant since we are discussing God knowing their choices in advance, thusly predetermining their lives and negating their "freewill" to choose something that God wouldn't already know. as i stated before -  the person isn't given the freedom (or freewill) to choose an option that God wouldn't know (which is a necessary option for freewill to exist) - even if they don't know it they still don't have that option which is necessary for freewill to exist. Until that option exists - then its just an illusion of freewill since your choice is already predetermined for you because God already knows.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.44  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.40    6 years ago
Your the negative one.....So....I guess YOU can't Prove what you say.

Not even a little. I have not made any claims to prove a negative.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.45  Phoenyx13  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.41    6 years ago

So we disagree.

No problem with that, as I have never tried to convert anyone to my way of thinking regarding God.

yes, we can disagree :) no problem

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.46  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.44    6 years ago
Not even a little. I have not made any claims to prove a negative.

Actually....a BUNCH ! Every comment I've read of yours is in the Negative when it comes to this subject.

Such a "Debby Downer" !

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.47  Phoenyx13  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.37    6 years ago

It's not a "Fallacy"....it's what one thinks !

You say Nay....I say Yay.

it's absolutely a logical fallacy to prove a negative - this may explain it better:

but it's up to you to determine if that explains it better or not.

I can't prove what you say, and you can't prove what I say....but we BOTH believe in what we believe.

i've not stated my beliefs - you assume too much.

Are you right....or am I right....or does it really NOT fucking matter in the overall scheme of things.

i can agree with that - depending on the topic.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.48  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.42    6 years ago

Pretty much isn't the same as KNOWING without a DOUBT, which is what I asked.

You simply do NOT know until you get into that situation, and we can all SPECULATE what we will do, we don't KNOW for sure.

You may say "I would kill those responsible for murdering my wife", but unless it happens, you don't KNOW. You may be content if the killer is caught, tried, and executed or sentenced to life in prison.

Don't you know people in your life who has said something similar to that when you have talked to them about what they would do if such a circumstance happened? And don't you really doubt that some would take the law into their own hands despite what they tell you they would do?

We will ALWAYS disagree on what we think free will is. You think it can not exist with an omniscient God, and I do.

Enough--we just disagree.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.49  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.46    6 years ago
Actually....a BUNCH ! Every comment I've read of yours is in the Negative when it comes to this subject.

I was referring to logical fallacies, not optimism or pessimism. My comments have been logical and/or factual. If you want to view that as "negative" in a pessimistic way, that's your problem.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.50  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.48    6 years ago
Pretty much isn't the same as KNOWING without a DOUBT, which is what I asked. You simply do NOT know until you get into that situation, and we can all SPECULATE what we will do,

For me, it's the same thing. But ok, if it makes you happy: yes, I know absolutely without a doubt how I will react. Is that better?

Don't you know people in your life who has said something similar to that when you have talked to them about what they would do if such a circumstance happened?

I don't recall talking to anyone how they would react if someone close to them was killed. What a morbid subject.

And don't you really doubt that some would take the law into their own hands despite what they tell you they would do?

I cannot presume to speak for anyone else regarding how they will react.

We will ALWAYS disagree on what we think free will is. You think it can not exist with an omniscient God, and I do. Enough--we just disagree.

You're free to be wrong then.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.51  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.50    6 years ago

So sue me then.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.52  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.50    6 years ago

I can not prove you wrong, and you can't prove me wrong

That is what may be called an impasse.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.53  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.51    6 years ago
So sue me then.

Spare me the juvenile drivel.

I can not prove you wrong,

Of course not.

and you can't prove me wrong

I already did, logically and rationally. You simply refuse to accept and/or understand it.

That is what may be called an impasse.

I accept your surrender then.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.54  It Is ME  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.47    6 years ago
it's absolutely a logical fallacy to prove a negative

So it's only a "Negative" your worried about ?

What about the "Prove the Existence" cry. Is that also like trying to prove a "Negative".....since atheist "Don't believe" that is. 

"I already did, logically and rationally."

You proved no such thing as to what exists or not. You gave your "Thoughts" !

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.55  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.49    6 years ago
I was referring to logical fallacies

In whose mind....yours ?

Does your "Thought" negate mine because you think differently than the way I do ?

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.56  Phoenyx13  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.54    6 years ago

So it's only a "Negative" your worried about ?

if someone will present an idea into a debate - for example: God exists - then that person can be challenged and bears the burden of proof for that idea. It's the same with any debate. How many times do you read comments on articles where someone makes a claim and others state "proof please" or "provide proof" ? do you think that the topic of religion is exempt from providing proof ?

What about the "Prove the Existence" cry. Is that also like trying to prove a "Negative".....since atheist "Don't believe" that is. 

the belief is irrelevant - the burden of proof exists for the bearer of the claim. logical irrefutable proof doesn't care if you believe or disbelieve - it because it still exists regardless to prove or disprove a claim

"I already did, logically and rationally."

You proved no such thing as to what exists or not. You gave your "Thoughts" !

i didn't make that statement - that was Gordy.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.57  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.55    6 years ago
In whose mind....yours ?

You clearly don't understand what a logical fallacy it then.

Does your "Thought" negate mine because you think differently than the way I do ?

No, it just makes me right and you wrong.

What about the "Prove the Existence" cry.

What about it?

Is that also like trying to prove a "Negative".....since atheist "Don't believe" that is.

No, it's not. Once again you demonstrate your lack of understanding of logical fallacies.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.58  Gordy327  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.56    6 years ago
i didn't make that statement - that was Gordy.

I see he is getting confused and tripping himself up in the process.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.59  Bourbon Street  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.19    6 years ago

Faith - by definition - is belief without proof.

An atheist can no more prove his beliefs than can a Christian......yet the atheist wants to condemn the Christian for his faith.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.60  It Is ME  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.56    6 years ago
f someone will present an idea into a debate - for example: God exists - then that person can be challenged and bears the burden of proof for that idea.

Goes both ways ! I don't care if you feel a "Negative" is null and void of being challenged or not ! You make a statement like that, show me why your statement is valid....and don't say because God can't be proven to exist. 

Get it now ?

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.61  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.58    6 years ago
I see he is getting confused and tripping himself up in the process.

That comment sounds like a "Tripping" thing.

Prove God doesn't exist. Some say they have seen God over the millenniums. Are they lying ?

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.62  Phoenyx13  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.59    6 years ago
An atheist can no more prove his beliefs than can a Christian......yet the atheist wants to condemn the Christian for his faith.

An atheist is simply unconvinced, due to lack of proof, of the existence of God (unless they are along the lines of an absolute atheist, the opposite of an absolute theist who state they know that God does exist... there are many articles that already covered these topics on here) - not necessarily that they believe or "know" there is no God.

Question: do you regularly ask people to prove things in debates on news articles (here for example) or do you just take their word on faith with no proof ?

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.63  Phoenyx13  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.60    6 years ago

Goes both ways ! I don't care if you feel a "Negative" is null and void of being challenged or not ! You make a statement like that, show me why your statement is valid....and don't say because God can't be proven to exist. 

Get it now ?

i've never made the statement that God doesn't exist - but i've had that statement made to me that God does exist (according to another) so the burden of proof is on that person(s) who made the claim that God does exist, not on me. Get it now ?

feel a "Negative" is null and void of being challenged or not !

a negative is a logical null and void - you can't prove a negative, a basic understanding of logic will help you comprehend it.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.64  Bourbon Street  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @3.1.20    6 years ago
You can't prove something doesn't exist since,

Yet you want to minimalize others for their beliefs - their Faith - when, based upon your own train of thought, you came to your conclusions with absolutely nothing - no proof - of what you believe.

I see a building and know that someone built it. I can point to the visible universe and suggest that someone or something created it - and knowing that houses, office buildings, bridges are all examples of things created and can conclude it's possible something or someone created it. You see the visible universe and come to the conclusion that nothing created it - that it just "is".

Explain your logic. Point out something that you can prove that simply "is", that came into being without benefit of a creator, that was not created.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.65  It Is ME  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.63    6 years ago
a negative is a logical null and void - you can't prove a negative

Says who ?

It is possible to prove a negative:

1. philosophically.
2. Evidence of absence in general, such as evidence that there is no milk in a certain bowl.
3. Modus tollens, a logical proof.
4. Proof of impossibility, mathematics.

Doesn't mean the end all, but it is possible.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.66  Bourbon Street  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.62    6 years ago

Do you understand the basic definition of Faith? You'd have to be clear on that before attempting to understand the more complex facets of faith.

While you are at it, explain why it seems to be more important to the atheist than the Christian to dispel another's beliefs.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.67  Phoenyx13  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.65    6 years ago

Says who ?

It is possible to prove a negative:

1. philosophically

please provide an example

2. Evidence of absence in general, such as evidence that there is no milk in a certain bowl.

that's a very nuanced argument and depends on the situation. in your example - that would be acceptable. here's more to explain it better:

3. Modus tollens, a logical proof.

that's only inferred and not necessarily proof. simple if-then statements like If a is b then b is a only holds if it can be inferred that not-a is not-b and that's not always true in every circumstance.

4. Proof of impossibility, mathematics.

that's only possible if there's no counterexample or logical contradiction present - which is rare but possible - this is also dealing with definitive concepts/objects and not something like God for example which is not definitive.

Doesn't mean the end all, but it is possible.

it doesn't seem you fully understand logical proof - each of your examples deal with definitive concepts/objects and God does not fall under that category.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.68  Gordy327  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.59    6 years ago
An atheist can no more prove his beliefs than can a Christian......

An atheist has no beliefs when it comes to religion or god.

yet the atheist wants to condemn the Christian for his faith.

Not at all. The atheist simply doesn't accept the Christian's (or any religious individuals) claims regarding a god. The atheist simply challenges those claims. That is not condemnation.

You see the visible universe and come to the conclusion that nothing created it - that it just "is".

You're going under the assumption that the creation of the universe was caused by or is the product of some god. There are those who think that the universe is cyclical, no real beginning or end. 

Point out something that you can prove that simply "is", that came into being without benefit of a creator, that was not created.

Prove that there is a god, or that said god created anything!

Do you understand the basic definition of Faith?

Faith alone does not equal facts. It's little more than wishful thinking or an intellectually dishonest attempt to explain something that is not understood.

While you are at it, explain why it seems to be more important to the atheist than the Christian to dispel another's beliefs.

Atheists simply challenge certain "beliefs," especially when said beliefs are touted as factual or true. Why should mere belief be free from scrutiny?

Faith - by definition - is belief without proof.

Belief does not equal fact.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.69  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.61    6 years ago
Prove God doesn't exist.

Again, that's a logical fallacy. You can't prove a negative.

Some say they have seen God over the millenniums. Are they lying ?

Possibly. Or they're just irrational or delusional. There I no reason to accept such claims at face value. Why would you or anyone else for that matter?

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.70  Phoenyx13  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.66    6 years ago

Do you understand the basic definition of Faith? You'd have to be clear on that before attempting to understand the more complex facets of faith.

While you are at it, explain why it seems to be more important to the atheist than the Christian to dispel another's beliefs.

i don't see any Atheist's trying to necessarily dispel a Christian's belief (i could be wrong, there very well could be Atheist's on here trying to dispel a Christian's belief by stating they shouldn't believe in God etc, the opposite of what Christian's do regularly to "recruit" for their religion or favorite house of worship by going door-to-door periodically or telling others that they "have" to believe in their God or be condemned to "Hell".) - but i do see them questioning it on here (which isn't necessarily dispelling it although you may feel it is) and they do it under circumstances where the Christian presents the concept of God as a fact in a debate without giving proof of facts - so we circle around again to the question you avoided answering:

Question: do you regularly ask people to prove things in debates on news articles (here for example) or do you just take their word on faith with no proof ?

i'll await your answer. it seems you feel that anything dealing with religion or God does not require any proof when presented in a logical debate - yet everything else you would need proof for (ironically).

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.71  Bourbon Street  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.68    6 years ago
An atheist has no beliefs when it comes to religion or god.

Aw gordy - you and I both know that my statement - "atheists don't believe in God" was accurate, honest and inclusive of the facts.....just as you and I both know there are a handful of atheists posting regularly on newstalkers that fairly drool over the opportunity a thread like this affords them - the chance to show just how much disdain and antipathy they have for anyone having religious faith - although I have serious doubts that were the subject Islam you'd be as quick to scorn.

Atheists believe there is no God - that is their belief - they have faith there is no God - because why? Come on - give it shot..........they have faith because they have no proof of the belief, no evidence.

And don't suggest that Christians aren't treated differently in these situations. When Joy Behar and the other co-hosts of The View stated that Mike Pence' religious convictions were proof of mental illness and useful fodder for their bigotry, only a naïve fool would suggest things would not be handled differently had she made similar disparaging comments about muslims or LGBTQ folks. Even with over 30 million complaints ABC did nothing - and that fount of leadership, wisdom and tolerance - Joy Behar - weeks later she finally faked enough character to apologize to Mike pence, but didn't have the moral courage to apologize in public or apologize to the millions of people she insulted......until much, much later when she offered up an offhand "I'm sorry".

Belief does not equal fact.

Finally a fact based opinion. Congrats Capt. Obvious.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.72  Gordy327  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.71    6 years ago
Aw gordy - you and I both know that my statement - "atheists don't believe in God" was accurate, honest and inclusive of the facts.....just as you and I both know there are a handful of atheists posting regularly on newstalkers that fairly drool over the opportunity a thread like this affords them - the chance to show just how much disdain and antipathy they have for anyone having religious faith - although I have serious doubts that were the subject Islam you'd be as quick to scorn.

Only in your mind.

Atheists believe there is no God - that is their belief - they have faith there is no God - because why? Come on - give it shot..........they have faith because they have no proof of the belief, no evidence.

Repeating that nonsense does not make you right.

And don't suggest that Christians aren't treated differently in these situations. When Joy Behar and the other co-hosts of The View stated that Mike Pence' religious convictions were proof of mental illness and useful fodder for their bigotry, only a naïve fool would suggest things would not be handled differently had she made similar disparaging comments about muslims or LGBTQ folks.

I don't watch The View.

Even with over 30 million complaints ABC did nothing - and that fount of leadership, wisdom and tolerance - Joy Behar - weeks later she finally faked enough character to apologize to Mike pence, but didn't have the moral courage to apologize in public or apologize to the millions of people she insulted......until much, much later when she offered up an offhand "I'm sorry".

Your Red Herring aside, see previous statement.

Finally a fact based opinion. Congrats Capt. Obvious.

I've given only facts, not opinions. too bad they weren't obvious to you.

 
 
 
user image
Freshman Silent
3.1.73    replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.3    6 years ago

"God has a terrible track record of preventing anything"

As you would say: That's nice prove it. Gordy, you nor anyone has a shred of evidence God didn't prevent thousands, millions, billions of bad things from happening. Maybe one of those things God preventing from happening is a car accident you narrowly escaped.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.74  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.53    6 years ago

Accept whatever it is you think you won.

have a great day!

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
3.1.75  Ozzwald  replied to  epistte @3.1.1    6 years ago
After a tragedy why do Christians pray to the same god that did nothing to prevent it?

It's worse than that.  Based on their beliefs, not only did their God not prevent it, he either CAUSED it or knew it was about to happen and actively ALLOWED it.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.76  Trout Giggles  replied to  @3.1.73    6 years ago

Why does God allow any bad things to happen? Why did he create Satan?

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.77  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.69    6 years ago
Possibly. Or they're just irrational or delusional.

There's ALWAYS an OR...and more OR's huh.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
3.1.78  It Is ME  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.67    6 years ago

Based on your post....the "Possibilities" are endless. thinking

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.79  Bourbon Street  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.70    6 years ago
but i do see them questioning it

I knew you couldn't do it....Skirting {SP}

Atheists believe there is no God, agnostics question the existence of God.

Go do some research - arm yourself with a least a minimum of knowledge - seek out the meaning of terms you'll need to be a part of the conversation - understand the basics of the subject matter. Believe me, Skirting {SP} and maybe keep you from proposing something else silly like "atheists questioning the existence of God".

Until when - or if - I'll wait to see if you're up to it but I won't waste time and effort hoping you can.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
3.1.80  epistte  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.6    6 years ago
Why could God not grant free will to people?

If your religion believes in predestination, and many Protestant religions do, then prayer is impossible because you believe that your life and that of everyone else was determined before you were born. 

How can you pray to an omniscient and omnipotent God to change his plans when you believe that you are a sinful mortal being?   Prayer might make you feel better about yourself, give you a feeling that you are doing something to aid others with minimal effort on your part, but in reality, prayer is both useless and illogical.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.81  Trout Giggles  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.32    6 years ago
But omniscience is an attribute assigned to such a go

That is Christian Theology 101. I guess we can 't use their own book to debate them.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.82  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.6    6 years ago
Why could God not grant free will to people?

If God is omniscient (as most Abrahamic religions claim) then God knows all.

If God knows all then he knows what you will do before you even 'decide' to do it.

There is no free will if your choices are knowable.  By definition.


The concept of omniscience directly contradicts the concept of free will.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.84  Bourbon Street  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.76    6 years ago
Why did he create Satan?

Free will. Satan had free will - as do we all.

If God stopped all bad things from happening He would have to suspend free will.

Consider the possibility - God did not stop the 9/11 terrorists, free will ruled - but the way I believe He was with anyone asking for Him, with the first responders, with the people that were suffering. There are no promises made for this life - just the next.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.85  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @3.1.80    6 years ago

I don't believe in predestination. Seems rather pointless to me.

I don't believe that God is sitting somewhere micro-managing every little thing in our universe. I believe He gave us free choice, and what we experience on Earth is the result of all people making their own decisions through their own free will. I don't blame God when things go wrong.

I believe God answers prayers in 3 ways: Yes, no, or later. I pray to know better what God's will is in my life, and strength to carry it out. I pray for others. I don't believe that someone praying to win the lottery will win it because they prayed for it.

As I have said many times, I believe prayer works in MY life. I don't speak for others. Whatever you choose to believe is okay with me, because I am not trying to convert anyone to think as I do.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
3.1.86  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.54    6 years ago
Is that also like trying to prove a "Negative".....since atheist "Don't believe" that is.

We can really just move past the stalemate of "You claim there is a God, prove it." and "You claim there isn't a God, prove it". Neither can be proven, at least at this moment in earths history. One could at least say that God, if he/she/it exists, should be able to be proved, we just may not have the tools available yet to test and verify, though any said God should be able to prove their existence at any time if God is what most believers imagine God to be.

But assuming a believers God doesn't want to prove its existence for some reason, they are at the same impasse as an atheist trying to prove a negative. And when it's just two different peoples opinions that don't effect anyone else but themselves, there's no real reason to push the debate any further unless one or the other is trying to convert people to their view.

The real debate that is worthwhile having is when it comes to things that effect everyone else in the secular society we live in. The first being, should we be a secular nation or a theocracy? Considering the theist can't prove their God is real, why would we want everyone in our nation to be forced to bow down to it. The more reasonable position is to choose a secular society that allows everyone to have their own personal faith or beliefs, but doesn't force it on anyone else.

The next debate is, should our laws in a secular society be based on citizens needs for safety and security or should it be based on the whims of an unproven deity? Again, the more reasonable position to take, even if you're religious, is to support laws based on citizens needs for safety and security.

What about teaching religion in publicly funded schools? Considering no religion can prove their deity is real, why should we be teaching children that it carries the same weight as scientific theories that are an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested, in accordance with the scientific method, using a predefined protocol of observation and experiment?

So no one is stopping you from believing whatever you want, but without evidence there is no reason for a secular society to adopt any religious traditions, ideology or laws. A secular society also isn't adopting atheists ideology or laws, no one is banning religions or forcing public schools to teach that there definitely isn't a God. So a secular nation can stay neutral in the debate, both sides get to believe what they want and neither are given any special position among society, or at least they shouldn't be.

Sadly, in the US we have regular invasions of religion into schools, our tax laws and our government. We have the religious wanting intelligent design taught along side evolution, they want school led prayer, they support "blue laws" that ban alcohol sales on Sunday, they attempt to ban gay marriage largely based on their religious views as well as trying to push their religious views on women considering getting an abortion. So it would seem atheists have every right to stand up against those incursions by rightly pointing out neither Christians nor any other religion can prove their God is real and thus they should stay out of the structure of secular society that is supposed to protect every ones right to believe or not.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.87  Bourbon Street  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.82    6 years ago
There is no free will if your choices are knowable. By definition.

That's what you get when you buy a dictionary at the Dollar General. You might consider spending a little more and get an upgrade. 

I know what will happen if someone throws a baseball at a window - but it does not mean that I am the one that threw the ball.....by definition.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.88  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.82    6 years ago

No, I don't believe it does.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.89  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.82    6 years ago

If what you claim was true, then we would ALWAYS instinctively know the right thing to do, and never would have any doubts about our actions. We also would never have any regrets in life. And we would never, ever complain about anything.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.90  Bourbon Street  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.85    6 years ago
I believe prayer works in MY life.

As do I - and as much as I would like for more people to find Faith and a relationship with God, once they know about God - knowing they have a choice in other words - I don't lose sleep over it.

My Church and it's members donate a lot of time, money, supplies and manpower to help others less fortunate - or folks whose lives have been upended by disasters. Part of that is making sure they know about God and His Word - but nobody forces them into worship or withholds aid if they don't believe - nobody tries to get them to change their faith.. They are not belittled if they make another choice - but the help is still there for them if they want and need it.

Sadly not everyone looks at it the same way.

Joy Behar and the other View co-hosts seem to be a pretty good barometer for the religious tolerance of the left.....just as Kathy Griffin, Snoop Dog and Antifa seem to have nailed the political tolerance of the Left.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.91  TᵢG  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.84    6 years ago
If God stopped all bad things from happening He would have to suspend free will.

If God can even know what will happen before it occurs there is, by definition, no free will.   Free will means being able to make a choice.  If your choices could be known before you make them you cannot possibly have free will.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.92  TᵢG  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.87    6 years ago
I know what will happen if someone throws a baseball at a window - but it does not mean that I am the one that threw the ball.....by definition.

That has nothing to do with free will.   And it certainly has nothing to do with the point I made.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.93  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.89    6 years ago
If what you claim was true, then we would ALWAYS instinctively know the right thing to do,

Why?   Explain your reasoning.

... and never would have any doubts about our actions. We also would never have any regrets in life. And we would never, ever complain about anything.

None of this follows from the concept of free will vs. predestination (the existence of omniscience).    You need some logic to back these odd assertions.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.94  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.88    6 years ago
No, I don't believe it does.

Come on Texan, what is anyone supposed to do with that?   If you disagree pose a counter argument.   Or at least give a reason.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.95  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.85    6 years ago
I don't believe in predestination.

Do you believe God is omniscient (or, really, that anything can be omniscient)?

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.97  Bourbon Street  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.72    6 years ago
I've given only facts, not opinions

Then the burden of proof is on you. I admit - freely - my Faith is my belief in God. I've stated clearly that it is my Faith - belief without proof. Since your statement is that you have only "given facts" then prove your "fact" - that God does not exist........or admit what the adults here already know - that you have no proof.

Funny - someone above suggested that belief in God is a childish fantasy - an interesting general insult concerning maturity when I consider being heckled by people that not only cannot prove their own opinions but are apparently unable to admit they cannot....don't you think?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.98  Texan1211  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.90    6 years ago

Sometimes some people here can't understand that. They think all believers are proselytizing if they speak of God. It is admirable what your church does. I have found organized religion doesn't work for me personally, but I do believe in God, pray, and never criticize another for their religious views. I never try to convert anyone. What works for me might not work for another. And I am perfectly fine with that. But I certainly don't freak out because (gasp!) someone mentions religions or churches or God.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.99  TᵢG  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.97    6 years ago

Where does Gordy state (as certain fact) that God does not exist?   Also, God defined as what, exactly?

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.100  Bourbon Street  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.92    6 years ago

Deleted CoC {SP}

I wonder what it is about a conversation dealing with religious concepts that attracts so many would-be conversationalists that are so woefully underprepared......."atheists that question God's existence", omniscience precluding self determination, over-ruling free will.......Skirting CoC {SP}

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
3.1.101  epistte  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.3    6 years ago
Or maybe they think praying is like playing the lottery: long odds, but if you play enough, eventually you might win.

Disregarding the obvious logical fallacies of religious belief, if they believe as you say they are now committing the Gamblers fallacy.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.102  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.93    6 years ago

You are claiming that we have no free will if God is omniscient. If we have no free will, wouldn't God control our every thought? Why would we ever doubt anything we did or any decision we ever had to make if God was already taking care of it for us?

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
3.1.103  katrix  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.64    6 years ago

So where did your god come from, in that case?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.104  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.94    6 years ago

Why? Whatever I have to say, you will find fault with.

I' m perfectly fine and secure in my beliefs. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.105  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.95    6 years ago

Yes

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.106  TᵢG  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.100    6 years ago
I'm confident you have no real understanding of the statement you made.....or you'd understand my point without needing to be coached.

Snark is never a good substitute for an argument.   Claiming the other party is stupid is equally poor.   If you wish to show me stupid then make an argument.

I wonder what it is about a conversation dealing with religious concepts that attracts so many would-be conversationalists that are so woefully underprepared......."atheists that question God's existence", omniscience precluding self determination, over-ruling free will.......Do some serious research or don't expect to garner any more attention. Have a great life.

Well that was quick.   A few unanswered challenges and you are gone in flames.   I suspect most people will recognize that instead of offering even a thoughtful rebuttal (much less a logical argument) you chose to go personally negative and leave the building.

 
 
 
user image
Freshman Silent
3.1.107    replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.76    6 years ago

Satan wasn't always a bad guy, in heaven his name was Lucifer.  Lucifer apparently became so impressed with his own beauty, intelligence, power, and position that he began to desire for himself the honor and glory that belonged to God alone. The sin that corrupted Lucifer was self-generated pride for that he was cast out of heaven to the Earth to rule over man. Satan is pissed so he's doing every thing he can to destroy God's creations and turn mankind away from God.

Satan has caused trillions of bad things to happen on Earth. We can say a lot of bad things about Satan, but we can't accuse of him not being good at what he does. One of those bad things was turning some people into atheist. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.108  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.102    6 years ago
You are claiming that we have no free will if God is omniscient.

Correct.  In fact, I am stating that free will cannot exist if any entity is omniscient.   If any entity can know what choice you will make before you make it (assuming there is a legitimate choice of course) then the chooser really does not have free will.  Right?   Say you choose to go to Starbucks -something you do not predictably do- and order a grande vanilla latte with almond milk and you act on this at 10:07am.   If any entity knows (with certainty) that you would do just that at 10:07am then you really did not have a choice did you?    If you could have chosen to get a smoothie instead then that would mean the omniscient entity really was not omniscient.

If we have no free will, wouldn't God control our every thought?

Something would be controlling every aspect of our being and indeed every aspect of nature as a whole.

Why would we ever doubt anything we did or any decision we ever had to make if God was already taking care of it for us?

True


I am not arguing for or against free will.   (That is a different argument actually.)   I am arguing that free will and omniscience are mutually exclusive.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.109  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.104    6 years ago
Why? Whatever I have to say, you will find fault with.

Possibly, but you tend to disagree with whatever I write and that does not dissuade me from expressing myself.   What is the point of making a claim in a forum such as this if you are not willing to address challenges?

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.110  Bourbon Street  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.92    6 years ago
That has nothing to do with free will.

I apologize for being short with you - had you confused with someone else.

Someone throwing a ball at a window is an independent action - as is anything done with free will. If there was no free will there would be no self determination, no Faith - in fact no need for anything. Life would have all the value and meaning of a TV rerun.

If there was only predetermination then there would be no point to life, no reason for us to exist. A Being capable of creating the universe (if you so believe) would have little use for an echo chamber. My opinion is that God has many things in common with us - including wanting others that are so inclined to profess affection and loyalty - not because they are forced to but because they want to.

The Bible is clear - we have self determination, free will - that our Faith, or lack of it, is what defines us.

I am stating that free will cannot exist if anyentity is omniscient.

Knowing what will happen is not the same as making something happen. Perhaps God simply knows what HE is going to do - or perhaps as soon as HE set things in motion he knew how it would play out. Or perhaps the reality is nothing like we imagine.

I thought/hoped that you might rise above trotting out another "Can God create a boulder so heavy He cannot lift it" word game - we'll see I guess.

I choose to believe in a Creator - but that doesn't mean He is confined to my limited ability to understand Eternity, or yours - I simply find the way I imagine the Universe to be more credible than to believe it simply happened. Even science admits that their concept of creation, whether it be String Theory or the Big Bang Theory are JUST THEORIES.....as opposed to "atheist" who said above  that "all he offers are facts".

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.111  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.108    6 years ago

I don't see it that way. 

I see it this way:

God is omniscient.

God gave man free will. 

I don't believe in predetermination, so I don't believe that God is sitting somewhere micro-managing every aspect of our lives. That would be counter to free will. I think God lets us make our own choices and lets us face the consequences of those actions.  What decisions we make personally is what determines what happens in the afterlife, I believe

I believe that probably most people on Earth would agree that there wouldn't be much point of life if every thing is predetermined. There would be absolutely no incentive to ever do anything because "it is all out of our hands". People who believe that everything is predetermined should probably never complain about anything at all---ever.

Now, I realize that someone who doesn't believe in God won't agree with a  word I typed. And I'm okay with that. No need for rebuttal because I am not arguing about it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.112  TᵢG  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.110    6 years ago

No worries.   

Someone throwing a ball at a window is an independent action - as is anything done with free will. If there was no free will there would be no self determination, no Faith - in fact no need for anything. Life would have all the value and meaning of a TV rerun.

True.   But I am not arguing that the lack of even a perceived free will is a good thing.   I am arguing that free will is mutually exclusive with anything being omniscient.

If there was only predetermination then there would be no point to life, no reason for us to exist. A Being capable of creating the universe (if you so believe) would have little use for an echo chamber. My opinion is that God has many things in common with us - including wanting others that are so inclined to profess affection and loyalty - not because they are forced to but because they want to.

You are arguing against predetermination because you dislike it.   I understand.   But my argument is not based on what I would prefer, it is based on logic alone.

The Bible is clear - we have self determination, free will - that our Faith, or lack of it, is what defines us.

Why does it matter what is written in the Bible?   The Bible also claims God knows all (is omniscient).  

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.113  Bourbon Street  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.112    6 years ago
You are arguing against predetermination because you dislike it.

No. I am debating the idea because I don't see it that way. I freely admit that my insight into God, the Universe, Creation - all are limited and all are facets of my faith.....but I tend to laugh at anyone that suggests they have all the answers.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.114  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.111    6 years ago
I see it this way:   God is omniscient.   God gave man free will. 

That is your belief, right?   I am not arguing beliefs but rather mutual exclusion of two ideas.   Just because you believe something does not make it logical (or even possible).

I don't believe in predetermination, so I don't believe that God is sitting somewhere micro-managing every aspect of our lives. That would be counter to free will.

I agree, it would be counter to free will.   Given.

I think God lets us make our own choices and lets us face the consequences of those actions.  What decisions we make personally is what determines what happens in the afterlife, I believe

I understand you believe that.   Go beyond your beliefs now and look at this impartially - clinically - logically.    Set aside what you want to be true and engage in pure critical thinking.   Do a Mr. Spock exercise.

I believe that probably most people on Earth would agree that there wouldn't be much point of life if every thing is predetermined. There would be absolutely no incentive to ever do anything because "it is all out of our hands". People who believe that everything is predetermined should probably never complain about anything at all---ever.

No doubt.

Now, I realize that someone who doesn't believe in God won't agree with a  word I typed. And I'm okay with that. No need for rebuttal because I am not arguing about it.

Well you were wrong about that.   Hopefully from my responses you see I am not debating beliefs but rather pursuing logical truth and exposing mutual exclusion (contradiction).

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.115  TᵢG  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.113    6 years ago
No. I am debating the idea because I don't see it that way.

But your argument was that you did not like the consequences.   You did not argue how free will and omniscience are compatible.

I tend to laugh at anyone that suggests they have all the answers.

As you should.   Nobody is omniscient.   If they were, then there could be no free will.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.116  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.114    6 years ago

Impasse

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.117  Gordy327  replied to  @3.1.73    6 years ago
As you would say: That's nice prove it. Gordy, you nor anyone has a shred of evidence God didn't prevent thousands, millions, billions of bad things from happening.

Considering all the disasters that happen on a daily basis (and that's just the ones we hear about), god certainly didn't prevent those from happening. Either that or he's too impotent to prevent anything. 

Maybe one of those things God preventing from happening is a car accident you narrowly escaped.

No, my own driving skills do that.

Satan has caused trillions of bad things to happen on Earth.

As I say (and as you so kindly pointed out): that's nice. prove it!

We can say a lot of bad things about Satan, but we can't accuse of him not being good at what he does. One of those bad things was turning some people into atheist.

Prove Satan exists then! Atheists don't believe in Satan either. I certainly don't accept claims for a god because there is no evidence for one. Satan has nothing to do with that. Besides, what has Satan done that is so bad exactly, especially compared to the atrocities god has done?

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.118  Bourbon Street  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.112    6 years ago
Why does it matter what is written in the Bible?

Nothing if you choose not to believe......but it is amazing to me how many stories in the Bible taking place in locations that are named have been found by archeologists. Just as the description of Creation in the Bible reads very much like the Big Bang Theory being explained by people that had no prior scientific background and didn't have the scientific language to use in the explanation.........how many scientists are you aware of that had a handle on the Big Band 1500 years ago? How about one with a glimmer of insight?

As I said above - once someone is aware of God and His Word I don't lose sleep worrying about whether or not they choose to believe.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
3.1.119  Bourbon Street  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.115    6 years ago
As you should.  Nobody is omniscient.

Don't get too excited......I said "anyone".

I didn't use the word or mean to say "AnyOne"

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.120  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.77    6 years ago

No, I covered the 'or's.'

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.121  Phoenyx13  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.78    6 years ago
Based on your post....the "Possibilities" are endless.

my post (and yours to which it replied to) only dealt with definitive concepts/objects - God doesn't qualify for that category. But, if you would like to apply your post to the concept of God - then based upon this (your words):

2. Evidence of absence in general, such as evidence that there is no milk in a certain bowl.

you just helped Gnostic Atheists prove there is no God - congratulations ! applause

unfortunately for you, i cannot agree with your assessment - i cannot definitively state at this time that there is no God and i cannot definitively state at this time that there is a God.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.122  TᵢG  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.118    6 years ago
Nothing if you choose not to believe....

Regardless, it does nothing to resolve the fact that if it is possible to know what will happen then free will does not exist.    A logical contradiction is not resolved by a belief.

Just as the description of Creation in the Bible reads very much like the Big Bang Theory being explained by people that had no prior scientific background and didn't have the scientific language to use in the explanation.........how many scientists are you aware of that had a handle on the Big Band 1500 years ago? How about one with a glimmer of insight?

You are on another topic.   Write an article and I will be happy to opine.   Seems to me you have been following Dr. Hugh Ross.

As I said above - once someone is aware of God and His Word I don't lose sleep worrying about whether or not they choose to believe.

This also has nothing to do with the conflict of the concept of omniscience and free will.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.123  Phoenyx13  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.79    6 years ago

I knew you couldn't do it....Skirting {SP}

Atheists believe there is no God, agnostics question the existence of God.

Gnostic Atheists believe there is definitely no God while Agnostic Atheists question that existence but aren't convinced at the time that God does exist. 

now, i can't complete your challenge:

While you are at it, explain why it seems to be more important to the atheist than the Christian to dispel another's beliefs.

because i don't see any Atheists on here trying to dispel Christian beliefs and i haven't witnessed it in general, but i have seen many Atheists question the Christian's beliefs which some take as a personal "attack". (unaware of the different Theists and Atheists ?)

i noticed you still failed to answer:

Question: do you regularly ask people to prove things in debates on news articles (here for example) or do you just take their word on faith with no proof ?

maybe now you'll stop running scared from the question ?

Go do some research - arm yourself with a least a minimum of knowledge - seek out the meaning of terms you'll need to be a part of the conversation - understand the basics of the subject matter. Believe me,Skirting {SP}and maybe keep you from proposing something else silly like "atheists questioning the existence of God".

Agnostic Atheists question the existence of God - i'm sorry you didn't understand that concept and couldn't figure it out, but i'll gladly help you by clarifying any of my words if you ask :) then you'll avoid saying something silly like "arm yourself with a least a minimum of knowledge" since i already have that.

Until when - or if - I'll wait to see if you're up to it but I won't waste time and effort hoping you can.

you are very amusing for a poster who still avoids answering a simple question i posed again in this comment reply.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.124  TᵢG  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.119    6 years ago
I didn't use the word or mean to say "AnyOne"

Does not matter.   If any entity (God or otherwise) is omniscient then free will is not possible.   If it is possible to know what choices will be made before they are made then those choices are not of free will. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.125  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  @3.1.107    6 years ago

Great post.  thumbs up  Well written with good points.  applause

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
3.1.126  Gordy327  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.97    6 years ago

I have not stated god doesn't exist as matter of fact. I stated that I do not accept claims for a god without evidence. Big difference. 

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
3.1.127  katrix  replied to  @3.1.107    6 years ago

Satan's only "sin" was that of knowledge - Adam and Eve were no longer just animals, but became human, and began to think.  Religious fanatics cannot stand knowledge, since the bible can't hold up against it.  Many atheists know far more about your religion than you do - we used to share it, and then we studied it and its history.  Which explains why you fear knowledge so much; perhaps if you seriously thought about your faith, you might also wonder why you worship a god who you think murdered countless people because its ego was bruised, who invented "collateral damage" to an extent which is even more disgusting than that of humans in wartime ... 

Lucifer was actually the morning star in an earlier culture, stolen (as most things in the Abrahamic religions are) from earlier cultures.  You clearly don't know much about your god Satan.

Have you read Gilgamesh?  Give it a shot and let me know what it reminds you of - and which it far predates.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.128  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.122    6 years ago

God did create the earth as we know it relatively recently.  

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
3.1.129  pat wilson  replied to  katrix @3.1.127    6 years ago
Have you read Gilgamesh?

Comment removed for skirting the CoC. jwc2blue

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
3.1.130  katrix  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.126    6 years ago
I have not stated god doesn't exist as matter of fact. I stated that I do not accept claims for a god without evidence. Big difference.

If they accepted your statement, they'd have to drop the whole bit about turning logical arguments against us ... such as not proving a negative.  They refuse to actually think.  Very few atheists are gnostic, but the fundies want to hate us all; their hatred outweighs any chance of their using a brain cell.  Too bad we can't send them all back to the days after Henry VIII's death .. I wouldn't do that to them, because it would be a death sentence.  They wouldn't learn from the experience even if they survived it; they'd just double down on their insistence that they're somehow the one person in the entire history of Earth who has gotten this right.

Fear (and the horrible need to feel those who don't share your faith will be punished without you having to actually torture them) is a very surprising motivator for people who desperately need to think there's some god out there.  Notice how religious people who aren't literalists don't get terrified or angry about differing views?  Someone said centuries ago, when astronomy came into its own, something about how if one single thing could be proven about the stars, then the bible was basically kaput ... and that's how science and rational thought is viewed by many today.  A threat to their faith, and when you only have faith ... it's a very shaky foundation.

They make it clear that logic and rational thought are their enemies, as are those people who don't share their exact interpretation of their holy books.  I realize they're terrified, and I would pity them if they weren't so busy trying to destroy morality and decency in the world.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.131  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  katrix @3.1.127    6 years ago

Satan was no victim in his attempted revolution against God.  He tried to overthrow Heaven and was expelled.  I’m sure among people’s turning to idols instead of God that Satan planted the idea of himself as that.  Adam and Eve surrendered their God given dominion over the earth by yielding to the devils temptation to “be like God”. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.132  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.1.128    6 years ago
God did create the earth as we know it relatively recently.

You are a Young Earth Creationist?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.133  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.1.131    6 years ago
Satan was no victim in his attempted revolution against God.  He tried to overthrow Heaven and was expelled.  I’m sure among people’s turning to idols instead of God that Satan planted the idea of himself as that.  Adam and Eve surrendered their God given dominion over the earth by yielding to the devils temptation to “be like God”. 

... we also  have ...

Pandora was created as a punishment to the mankind; Zeus wanted to punish people because Prometheus stole the fire to give it to them. Her gifts were beautifully evil, according to Hesiod. Hephaestus created her from clay, shaping her perfectly, Aphrodite gave her femininity and Athena taught her crafts. Hermes was ordered by Zeus to teach her to be deceitful, stubborn and curious.

Pandora was given a box or a jar, called “pithos” in Greek. Gods told her that the box contained special gifts from them but she was not allowed to open the box ever. Then Hermes took her to Epimetheus, brother of Prometheus, to be his wife. Prometheus had advised Epimetheus not to accept anything from the Gods, but he saw Pandora and was astonished by her beauty, thus he accepted her right away.

Pandora was trying to tame her curiosity, but at the end she could not hold herself anymore; she opened the box and all the illnesses and hardships that gods had hidden in the box started coming out. Pandora was scared, because she saw all the evil spirits coming out and tried to close the box as fast as possible, closing Hope inside.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.134  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.132    6 years ago

You bet.  A literal 7 day creation week.  The earth 🌏 itself is ancient.  The first words of Genesis say as much.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.135  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.1.134    6 years ago
The earth 🌏 itself is ancient. 

That is a contradictory response.   A Young Earth Creationist does not believe in an ancient Earth unless you think 6,000 years is 'ancient'.

You do seem to be a biblical literalist and that goes hand in glove with YEC.   Very odd response.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.136  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.135    6 years ago

Read Genesis 1:1 to 1-3 or so.  When God/Jesus came to create the earth there was something here.   He didn’t create light over nothing that 1st day.  The second day water was separated and our atmosphere as it was pre flood was created.  Again, that atmosphere wasn’t created over or out of nothing. On the third day, dry land and all its grass, plant, and tree life came to be.  That dry land didn’t come from nothing.  It says it came up out of the waters already present.  On day 4 the sun moon and other planets in the solar system were created.  God had planned the creation of the earth and mankind in His image for some unknown amount of time.  God has existed forever and had been creating all along our infinite universe up until Lucifer’s rebellion which happened around the time Earth was created.  When God decided to create earth he returned to this point where the foundations were previously laid.  So, someone says rocks are 4 billion years old and I say maybe so. I do believe that God did his creation week here in the last 6-10 thousand years ago.  The variable is that we don’t know how much time passed between the 6th day creation of Adam and Eve and when they listened to the talking serpent Lucifer and sinned.  Tracing from Adam to the flood and from it to the time of The Messiah and then to now is traceable.  

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.137  mocowgirl  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.59    6 years ago
yet the atheist wants to condemn the Christian for his faith.

Not at all.  If a Christian wants to believe that they were born an evil sinner and are going to have eternal life by believing that a supernatural being impregnated a human so it could be born and murdered by sin riddled humans in order to "save" them from itself then if it makes them happy they should continue to believe it.

However, some lines absolutely must be drawn because  their god, Yahweh, is barbaric.  

Yahweh commanded that people who worked on the Sabbath should be put to death, mouthy children should be put to death, people who did not believe in Yahweh, should be put to death, adulterers should be put to death, witches should be put to death and many other things also incurred the death penalty.

The Christians have murdered people for centuries in the name of obeying the rules of Yahweh.  This should be soundly condemned by everyone.

The Christians, who are trying to force the rules/lifestyle of their religious sect on others, should be condemned by Christian and non-Christian alike.

If a Christian wants to self-flagellate, then so be it.  But when they turn their self-loathing outwardly to harm others by telling them that they are evil sinners who are going to burn in Hell for eternity unless they join the Baptists, or Methodists, or Mormons, or Presbyterians, or Pentecostals, or Jehovah Witnessess, or Catholics, or Church of Christ, or Southern Baptist, or one of the other thousands of Christian sects which have evolved because of differing ideas on which is the one true religion that follows the true word of Yahweh/Yeshua.

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
3.1.138  katrix  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.22    6 years ago
The brother of a close friend was diagnosed with brain cancer and expected to live a matter of six months with most of it being in a comma. He instead lived over six years, saw his sons grow up, had time with his wife and family that was completely unexpected.

My atheist friend was diagnosed with a horrible disease and lived for many more years than the doctor expected.  The difference is that we see it as what it is.

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
3.1.139  katrix  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.1.136    6 years ago
On the third day, dry land and all its grass, plant, and tree life came to be.  That dry land didn’t come from nothing.  It says it came up out of the waters already present.  On day 4 the sun moon and other planets in the solar system were created.

That is so hilarious!  Your god, who created plants to need sun, didn't create plants until AFTER it created the solar system?

Ignorance isn't bliss, but sometimes it is truly hilarious.

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
3.1.140  katrix  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.1.131    6 years ago

God given dominion - as nothing more than animals, without passion or knowledge or sex or anything that makes us human - maybe you can be reincarnated as a sheep, if that's your ideal of life.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.141  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.1.136    6 years ago
When God/Jesus came to create the earth there was something here.

God did not create the Earth?

So, someone says rocks are 4 billion years old and I say maybe so.

An interesting and unusual interpretation.   Add this to the list of biblical interpretations that flat out contradict the biblical interpretations of other devout believers.

I do believe that God did his creation week here in the last 6-10 thousand years ago.  The variable is that we don’t know how much time passed between the 6th day creation of Adam and Eve and when they listened to the talking serpent Lucifer and sinned.  Tracing from Adam to the flood and from it to the time of The Messiah and then to now is traceable.  

Do you realize that means you think the Earth is as old as the known universe and that the sun and the moon are only 6,000-10,000 years old.   Hello?

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
3.1.142  katrix  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.141    6 years ago

Well, this is certainly a new interpretation for me.  Apologist cherry pickers always find new fruit, it seems.

No wonder other countries are killing us when it comes to science, math, and engineering.  

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
3.1.143  Phoenyx13  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.1.131    6 years ago
Satan was no victim in his attempted revolution against God.  He tried to overthrow Heaven and was expelled.  I’m sure among people’s turning to idols instead of God that Satan planted the idea of himself as that.  Adam and Eve surrendered their God given dominion over the earth by yielding to the devils temptation to “be like God”.

interesting... so we have this eternal struggle for souls between God and Satan, correct ? if Satan is a creation of God - why hasn't God won and defeated Satan yet thusly saving all the souls ? Has Satan become just as powerful as God ? Is God allowing Satan to still exist just to torture and tempt humans ?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.144  Trout Giggles  replied to  @3.1.107    6 years ago

I know the story of Lucifer and how he was cast out of heaven. Thank-you

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.145  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.97    6 years ago
an interesting general insult concerning maturity when I consider being heckled by people

Interesting comment from you considering you just mocked TiG for getting his dictionary from the Dollar General

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
3.1.146  sandy-2021492  replied to  Bourbon Street @3.1.100    6 years ago

This entire comment is really just an ad hom attack.  It's obvious to anyone reading that you can't counter TiG's point, and have therefore resorted to insults.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.147  Trout Giggles  replied to  Phoenyx13 @3.1.143    6 years ago

I've always wondered why God didn't just thump Lucifer in the head when he rebelled and that would have been it.

I asked somebody one time why God created evil. I was told God didn't create evil, Satan did.

But God created Satan, no? IF God created Satan, and Satan created evil, ergo God created evil.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
3.1.148  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.147    6 years ago

Nobody ever said religion was logical.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.149  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.148    6 years ago

I don't think it's supposed to be logical because you know....faith.

But then they can't stand it when they are trying to convert me and I challenge them with logic. I honestly don;t know how I'm supposed to find faith while I'm thinking logically and critically.

 
 
 
luther28
Sophomore Silent
4  luther28    6 years ago

Well it's today and I am an atheist and I've still not attempted to intimidate anyone.

In my little world, religion or lack of it falls into the folder marked personal. As most I have my own notions as to how the world around us works, which I fairly much keep to myself unless asked. What I ask in return is simple that others do the same.

Religion, politics and sexuality (all personal matters) have become somewhat of a team sport over the past forty years and the fan base seems to have an un-natural need to push their teams onto those of us that root for another.

By the by, there are many more religions on the face of the planet than Christianity have they no validity?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
4.1  Ozzwald  replied to  luther28 @4    6 years ago
Well it's today and I am an atheist and I've still not attempted to intimidate anyone.

Of course you probably haven't had a Bible thumper ringing your doorbell yet today either. 

When they do ring my doorbell, invariably just when we sit down to eat, I allow my 140 pound Rottweiler to do all the intimidating for me.  Mormon's stopped coming by a few years ago after he pushed his head and shoulders out.  I still get  different sects coming by at times.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
4.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  luther28 @4    6 years ago
I've still not attempted to intimidate anyone.

To many Christians, especially in the heartland, your very existence is an attack on them. They cannot abide by anyone around them not validating their version of Christianity and any time you dismiss them they feel intimidated by your independence. They can't have their kids seeing high functioning intellectual atheists living well, being good people, showing empathy for others, achieving success, no, they can't stand for such things because it undermines their entire ideology. They have taught their children that atheists are selfish evil troglodytes who can't help but do evil things because they don't have a God threatening them with hellfire if they do. Atheists who don't conform to their invented description make them seem like liars and they just can't allow that. So the common lie they tell is how evil authoritarians like Mao, Lenin or Stalin murdered millions because they were atheists even though their evil actions had nothing to do with their religious views and everything to do with maintaining their own power and privilege over large populaces. Being a humanist with empathy for your fellow man is simply not allowed because it doesn't fit their preconceived depiction of atheists.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
4.2.1  MrFrost  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.2    6 years ago
To many Christians, especially in the heartland, your very existence is an attack on them. They cannot abide by anyone around them not validating their version of Christianity and any time you dismiss them they feel intimidated by your independence.

Bingo, exactly right. 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4.2.2  charger 383  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.2    6 years ago

That sums it up very well

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
4.2.3  epistte  replied to  MrFrost @4.2.1    6 years ago
To many Christians, especially in the heartland, your very existence is an attack on them. They cannot abide by anyone around them not validating their version of Christianity and any time you dismiss them they feel intimidated by your independence.

You just described much of my extended families respone to me admitting that I wasn't part of their cult. Being a Humanist in a family of conservative Catholics makes me about as popular as The Honey Baked Ham store in Jereselum.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Participates
4.2.4  Randy  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.2    6 years ago
They have taught their children that atheists are selfish evil troglodytes who can't help but do evil things because they don't have a God threatening them with hellfire if they do.

They also teach their children (and like to believe themselves) that atheists are living some sort of dark and hopeless life of misery because they are missing the light of the living Christ or some such nonsense, when that's just a crock. I have  a pretty good life and a good marriage and am happy most of the time. I'm not missing anything.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4.2.5  charger 383  replied to  Randy @4.2.4    6 years ago

Dark,  only dark thing is my room when I sleep in on Sunday morning and I really enjoyed that before I retired.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Participates
4.2.6  Randy  replied to  charger 383 @4.2.5    6 years ago

That's why my bedroom is painted dark grey with dark grey curtains. Even the ceiling is dark grey. I like to sleep in in the morning and it's also great for taking naps. I like a dark room when I sleep, even in the daytime. Hell even all of my bedroom furniture and bedding is dark grey and the floor is black tile. In the middle of a bright sunny day it's still nice and dim in there.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.2.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.2    6 years ago

Thank-you. That sums it all up.

When you live in the South and you just move into a neighborhood the very first thing your new neighbors will ask is "Do you have a church home?"

I've had that same question put to me while I was in uniform. My LT asked me what church I went to. He knew it wasn't allowed, but he dared me to do anything about it

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.2.8  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  epistte @4.2.3    6 years ago

It is the jack booted thugs and goons at the FFRF that run around the heartland trying to intimidate small communities into giving up the expression of their beliefs.  

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
4.2.9  katrix  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.2.8    6 years ago

When's the last time you've even been to the heartland?  I thought you lived in California, were on unemployment for quite some time while waiting for Trump to give you a job, and are still enjoying the coastal life?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.2.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  XXJefferson51 @4.2.8    6 years ago

And I'm grateful to those "jack booted thugs" who are trying to save my small community from people such as you who would insist that my kids pray to Jesus every day or insist that I have to listen to a sermon when I go to a city council meeting

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
4.3  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  luther28 @4    6 years ago
Well it's today and I am an atheist and I've still not attempted to intimidate anyone.

Of course, it's the other way round but believers seem to need to invent a persecution complex to keep them going (and to justify their extreme reaction to atheists who speak up and out). 

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
4.3.1  katrix  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @4.3    6 years ago

Their faith isn't actually all that strong, which is why they get outright angry and hateful when presented with logic.  Also, their morals apparently aren't that good - since they can't behave properly unless they have the threat of eternal punishment or the promise of eternal rewards, they can't possibly understand a truly moral person, who behaves simply because treating others well is the right thing to do.  Besides, with a get out of hell free card, there's no need for them to act morally - they think their faith means they can literally get away with rape and murder, but it's all OK because God will forgive them (and to hell, literally, with the victims).  What a pathetic attitude they have, but I guess it's a lot easier than simply being a good person.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
5  MrFrost    6 years ago

This article is from fox news and it's an opinion piece......of crap.... Nuf said. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
5.1  Gordy327  replied to  MrFrost @5    6 years ago
This article is from fox news and it's an opinion piece......of crap.... Nuf said.

That pretty much describes all of his articles.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1    6 years ago

Thank you for the compliment.  Coming from you that comment made my day!  thumbs upPartyapplausela de da

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1    6 years ago

Fox News is the most trusted name in news.  Digging a wholela de da

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
5.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.2    6 years ago
Fox News is the most trusted name in news.

Um, nope. Not even close. 

Fox News - Right Biashttps://i0.wp.com/mediabiasfactcheck.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/right06.png?resize=300%2C33&ssl=1 300w" sizes="(max-width: 700px) 100vw, 700px"> RIGHT BIAS

These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy.   See all Right Bias sources.

Factual Reporting: MIXED

Notes: Fox News Channel, also known as Fox News, is an American basic cable and satellite news television channel that is owned by the Fox Entertainment Group subsidiary of 21st Century Fox. Fox News Channel has been accused of biased reporting and promoting the Republican Party and has been deemed the least accurate cable news source according to   Politifact . (7/19/2016)

Source: 

.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
5.1.4  Gordy327  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.1    6 years ago
Thank you for the compliment. Coming from you that comment made my day

That wasn't a compliment. But I'm not surprised you didn't get that. Perhaps it's selective hearing or wishful thinking on your part.

Fox News is the most trusted name in news.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA [deep breath] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 
 
 
Pedro
Professor Participates
5.1.5  Pedro  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.2    6 years ago

Actually, The Associated Press is the most trusted source of news.

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
5.1.6  lennylynx  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.2    6 years ago

Uh huh.  Sorry for going off-topic, HA, but I would like to hear your opinion, if you don't mind, about Trump congratulating Putin on Putin's election victory.  What do you think of that?

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
Professor Guide
5.1.7  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.4    6 years ago

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA [deep breath] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

chuckle

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
5.1.8  arkpdx  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.3    6 years ago

According to a  Newsweek article from January 2018:

Fox News—far above of The New York Times, CNN, and the BBC—is the most objective source

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1.9  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  lennylynx @5.1.6    6 years ago

Exactly the same thing you thought about it when Obama did exactly the same thing in 2012 when Putin won last time.  Just one of those things you do with the leader of a country that you want to have decent relations with.  What do you think?  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1.10  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  arkpdx @5.1.8    6 years ago

True and we have to remind them that Fox News is fair and balanced.  

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5.1.12  bbl-1  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.2    6 years ago

Yeah, sure is.  FOX News is the best there ever was.  Will Hannity be canonized for sainthood?  Or at least knighted by The Queen?

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
5.1.13  MrFrost  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.10    6 years ago
True and we have to remind them that Fox News is fair and balanced.

Just so you know? Fox Fake News dropped their, "fair and balanced" credo a few months ago because even they know they are NOT fair and balanced. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.1.14  Split Personality  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.10    6 years ago

“Ralph Peters is entitled to his opinion despite the fact that he's choosing to use it as a weapon in order to gain attention.

We are extremely proud of our top-rated prime time hosts and all of our opinion programing,” Fox News said in a statement.

Even Fox News calls it opinion....

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
5.1.15  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.9    6 years ago
when Obama did exactly the same thing in 2012

You mean before Russia deployed active measures to meddle in our elections? Before Putin illegally invaded Crimea? Before sanctions for said invasion were put in place? Before Putin was so open about assassinating dissidents and arresting political opponents? Before Putin deployed banned chemical weapons to murder a defector and his daughter on British soil? Yeah, Obama totally did the same thing as Trump... /s

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
5.1.16  epistte  replied to  arkpdx @5.1.8    6 years ago
The New York Times, CNN, and the BBC—is the most objective source

You should try to tell the entire truth. Fox News is merely the most trusted news source among Trump supporters.

Fox News—far above of The New York Times , CNN, and the BBC—is the most objective source, according to 24 percent Americans surveyed for the study. Although that percentage is low, the other outlets scored much lower. Fox News' rating is largely due to the network’s dominant position among Republicans (60 percent of whom say it is objective) and their near complete distrust of other sources.

 
 
 
Old Hermit
Sophomore Silent
5.1.17  Old Hermit  replied to  arkpdx @5.1.8    6 years ago

According to a  Newsweek article from January 2018:

Fox News —far above of  The New York Times , CNN, and the BBC— is the most objective source

FOX News is just the go to trough, where a small segment of the population is feed their daily swill of lies, red meat and bizarre conspiracy theories.

Fox News —far above of The New York Times, CNN, and the BBC—is the most objective source, according to 24 percent Americans surveyed for the study. Although that percentage is low, the other outlets scored much lower. Fox News' rating is largely due to the network’s dominant position among Republicans (60 percent of whom say it is objective) and their near complete distrust of other sources.

Fun fact, (coincidence only I'm sure:), when Nixon left office in 1974 his job approval rating stood at 24%.

Just think about that.  24% of the country thought Nixon was doing just fine as President the day he left in disgrace, (and 24% think Fox is a great place for their news). 

I wonder if Trumps job approval numbers on his last day will beat Nixon's?  I'm taking the under.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.19  Trout Giggles  replied to  epistte @5.1.16    6 years ago

Some people try to be so sneaky....but fail. They deserve our pity

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
5.1.20  epistte  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.19    6 years ago
Some people try to be so sneaky....but fail. They deserve our pity

Google makes fact checking these claims almost embarrassingly easy. Do people sincerely think that they can make wild claims that they cannot defend and not be called out for their actions?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.21  Trout Giggles  replied to  epistte @5.1.20    6 years ago

Or omit part of the statement that has been made and not be found out?

 I laugh at their absurdity

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
5.1.22  katrix  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.21    6 years ago

Just like Trump, they don't care if they get found out - they will believe their lies, and scoff at facts, no matter what proof there is for the facts.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
5.1.23  Thrawn 31  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.2    6 years ago
Fox News is the most trusted name in news.

Do you seriously buy it when someone or something writes its own press? Like if Fox's slogan was "Fox News, never wrong about anything ever!" you would take it as being accurate? 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1.25  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Release The Kraken @5.1.24    6 years ago

I believe God is all present, all powerful, aware of everything at once at all times. I also believe that he offered each of his created beings including angels and humans free will to choose between loving and following Him or not. He wills that all will choose to be saved. That he knows people will not make that choice doesn’t mean He didn’t give them the opportunity to make a choice. We all make choices every day. God didn’t force any of them upon us.

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
5.1.26  katrix  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.25    6 years ago

Wouldn't a god be above the petty human emotions, such as needing to be worshipped, jealousy, all that?  Why would you worship something which threatens you with eternal torture and wants you to fear it?  It's like you worship a reality TV star.

If your god truly murdered thousands of innocent first born male humans and animals because it was pissed off at a pharaoh, rather than just smiting the pharaoh it was pissed off at .. and you think that's OK and worship that god  ... that's just monstrous.

But the real issue is the false prophet crap, which Jesus spoke very strongly against.  You think you know God's mind - while telling us its mind is beyond our comprehension.  Yet somehow you, personally, get it, and can speak for it, and can judge for it.  That's blasphemous ... your views on religion have nothing to do with what Jesus said or did, and are actually in opposition to it.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
5.1.27  Phoenyx13  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.25    6 years ago
I believe God is all present, all powerful, aware of everything at once at all times. I also believe that he offered each of his created beings including angels and humans free will to choose between loving and following Him or not. He wills that all will choose to be saved. That he knows people will not make that choice doesn’t mean He didn’t give them the opportunity to make a choice. We all make choices every day. God didn’t force any of them upon us.

God doesn't have to choose for any person - the choice is already predetermined since God already knows what they will choose, the person isn't given the freedom (or freewill) to choose an option that God wouldn't know (which is a necessary option for freewill to exist). Freewill necessitates the element of surprise or the unknown which isn't possible with an all-knowing God, correct ?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  MrFrost @5    6 years ago

The author and source as well as seeder are off topic.  The topic is interactions between atheists and Christians and how each feel treated by the other.  

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.1  devangelical  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.2    6 years ago
 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
5.3  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  MrFrost @5    6 years ago
This article is from fox news and it's an opinion piece.

skirting the CoC [ph]

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
6  lady in black    6 years ago

I was raised Catholic, I am non-practicing. 

The pedo priest scandal is hitting close to home.

The Buffalo Diocese just released the names of 42 priests that were accused pedos.  One of them was the Msgr. (he is deceased) of the grammar school I went to. He resigned the year I graduated (1976).  It breaks my heart to think that guys I knew from grammar school could the ones he abused.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
6.1  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  lady in black @6    6 years ago
I was raised Catholic, I am non-practicing.

I'm in the ever-growing "recovering Catholic" parish, myself.  Christianity, at least as malpracticed in this country,  in general is losing adherents at a pretty fast pace and that explains why those remaining are becoming even more extreme and less Christian by the day.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7  Jeremy Retired in NC    6 years ago
Atheists today are the most arrogant, ignorant and dangerous people on earth.

Right behind Christians and Muslims.  When was the last "Crusade" the Atheists put on again?

Yes, these atheists are loud, nasty, unapologetic and in-your-face.

So the religious are upset Atheists are acting like them.  

Yes, the new atheists have an ignorance of history bordering on madness.

Coming from a group of people who want you to fall lockstep in with the oppressive bible with it's hundreds, if not thousands, of edits, changes and omissions.

The facts are incontrovertible. Between the years 1900 and 2017, approximately 150 million people were killed by atheistic political regimes. 150 million!

Is this supposed to distract everybody from the millions killed by Christians in that religions existence?

  • As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
  • Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
  • Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
  • Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer."
  • Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. 
  • Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. 
    According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
  • In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
  • In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. 
  • The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.

Oh and we can't leave out:

  • Catholic extermination camps
    Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveli, a practising Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!

    In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]
  • Catholic terror in Vietnam
    In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters - the Viet Minh - had finally defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2 billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all (most non-buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South. With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman, the Vatican's spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the U.S. forces in Vietnam "Soldiers of Christ", a scheme was concocted to prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]

    Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman Catholicism.

    The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read:
    • "Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp."

Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of buddhist protesters and monks were imprisoned in "detention camps." Out of protest dozens of buddhist teachers - male and female - and monks poured gasoline over themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned themselves: in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded - mostly in street riots - 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentration or detention camps. [MW76-89].

To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of American GI's lost their life....

  • Rwanda Massacres
    In 1994 in the small african country of Rwanda in just a few months several hundred thousand civilians were butchered, apparently a conflict of the Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups.

For quite some time I heard only rumours about Catholic clergy actively involved in the 1994 Rwanda massacres. Odd denials of involvement were printed in Catholic church journals, before even anybody had openly accused members of the church.

Then, 10/10/96, in the newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany - a station not at all critical to Christianity - the following was stated:

"Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda's capital Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda that has not seen refugees - women, children, old - being brutally butchered facing the crucifix.

According to eyewitnesses clergymen gave away hiding Tutsis and turned them over to the machetes of the Hutu militia.

In connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them called the Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on fire and burn their victims alive..."

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1  Kavika   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7    6 years ago
To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of American GI's lost their life....

Something that most don't want to remember or hear about. In addition to the KIA, the tens of thousands of Americans that were KIA maimed for life. And the many more that died from Agent Orange long after the war ended. 

Don't forget that little genocide by the Christian Serb's against the Bosnian Muslims in the 1990's..Yup, in the town of Srebrenica 9,000 men, women and children were killed by the Christian Serb's...And that was just the one incident in a genocide that killed tens of thousands. 

I could keep going but hopefully some will see the light. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Kavika @7.1    6 years ago
Don't forget that little genocide by the Christian Serb's against the Bosnian Muslims in the 1990's..Yup, in the town of Srebrenica 9,000 men, women and children were killed by the Christian Serb's.

And in 1997, I was torn from my newborn daughter to go separate these "peaceful" religions.

I could keep going but hopefully some will see the light.

They won't.  All they see is that some other group is now acting as mean spirited and demanding as they are.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.2  Kavika   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.1    6 years ago
They won't.  All they see is that some other group is now acting as mean spirited and demanding as they are.

Sadly you're probably correct.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Kavika @7.1.2    6 years ago

Thank-you, Kavika, and Jeremy.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
7.1.4  Thrawn 31  replied to  Kavika @7.1    6 years ago

You can easily write a 1000 page books on religious genocides and massacres carried out by Christians, and if you include Muslims then you would have to release it in multiple parts. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
7.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7    6 years ago

Yikes, Jer.  I can't believe I'm voting you up.  Did the earth stop spinning?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.2.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @7.2    6 years ago

We disagree politically, that's all.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
7.2.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.2.1    6 years ago

Kinda goes to what Randy was saying below, we come in all forms and in some cases (like you and I) the lack of any religious conviction is one of the very few things we actually have in common. 

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
7.2.3  katrix  replied to  Thrawn 31 @7.2.2    6 years ago

Jeremy and I get along quite well except for politics.  If we met face to face, I imagine we'd manage to talk about politics as well, without strangling each other.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.2.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  katrix @7.2.3    6 years ago

I'd buy Jeremy a beer just for having the guts to jump out of a perfectly good air plane

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
8  charger 383    6 years ago

I feel bullied by religion,  I will  put up with with a lot of their stuff just like I put up with some football fans but often they go too far.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
9  pat wilson    6 years ago

Seems kinda masochistic that you seed these ludicrous articles and subject yourself to the ensuing ridicule, over and over and over.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
9.1  Raven Wing  replied to  pat wilson @9    6 years ago

Ain't that the truth! Like the man he worships, Trump, he does not realize he is his own worst enemy, yet, tries to blame the problems that results from his own actions on everyone else.  

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
9.1.1  Skrekk  replied to  Raven Wing @9.1    6 years ago
Like the man he worships, Trump, he does not realize he is his own worst enemy, yet, tries to blame the problems that results from his own actions on everyone else.

He's probably just a Russian troll who is doing it on purpose, much like Trump.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
9.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  pat wilson @9    6 years ago
Seems kinda masochistic that you seed these ludicrous articles and subject yourself to the ensuing ridicule, over and over and over.

HA seems to have no ability to feel embarrassed or ashamed.  IOW, he's the perfection the extremist of any type or stripe.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
10  bbl-1    6 years ago

Religion has become a political means to sew discontent, fear, ignorance and division in societies.

Humankind would fare far better if it concentrated it's desires for the well being and life prosperity of the amphibians and their habitats.

Human overpopulation needs to be dealt with. 

Does religion bully?  It has never not bullied.  Jeremy Retired in NC #7 did very well.  This Vietnam Veteran thanks him.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
10.1  charger 383  replied to  bbl-1 @10    6 years ago

                 "Human overpopulation needs to be dealt with."

and religion doesn't want anyone to even think about our biggest problem

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
10.1.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  charger 383 @10.1    6 years ago

Human over population is being dealt with.  Many countries are not producing children at replacement levels and will have severe population drops over the next few decades.  

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
10.1.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  XXJefferson51 @10.1.1    6 years ago

And many of the countries in that fix were overpopulated to begin with.

Will there be hard times?  Yes, because it will be difficult to find enough people willing and able to support and care for the elderly in those nations.  It may be difficult to fill necessary employment positions in both the public and private sectors, just because of a lack of warm bodies. It may well become an employees' market, with employers forced to offer higher wages and better benefits to attract talent that is more scarce than now.

But maybe that will force people to take a good, hard look at the idea of having a lot of kids whose future is uncertain, just because of somebody's interpretation of somebody else's supposed commands, or because that's what we've always done (never mind that couples used to have quite a few children to ensure that one male heir would survive to adulthood).  Uncontrolled population growth has its consequences, and one of them is difficulties when that growth reverses.  Family planning also allows for wise population planning.  When we overpopulate, we increase the risks of disease, famine, and war.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Participates
11  Randy    6 years ago

So yes, the modern breed of atheist is arrogant, ignorant and dangerous.

This one line shows the ignorance of the author of the whole opinion. There is no "modern breed of atheist" because that implies that we can be grouped somehow or that we already are a group of some kind when nothing could be further from the truth. I mean it's not like atheists have meetings or a creed that we follow. We don't have atheist beach parties or picnics. Atheists have a wide variety of ideas of what an atheists is, so we do not have the collective power to be a modern breed because we have never been a breed of any kind of all ever. Atheists are as varied as there are people on the 405 during rush hour. There are people of every type and job and profession and most of all we have no idea who the other atheists are in the first place are because we really don't care to meet them on that level because that is their business and because they are doing their own thing or not doing anything at all and we don't want to disturb it. We are just us and such a wide variety of different type of people, with a wide variety of jobs and lives and attitudes that it is impossible to put us into any group or breed and anyone who thinks they can hasn't the slightest idea or bit of knowledge of the of the subject of atheism. We are everywhere.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
11.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Randy @11    6 years ago
We don't have atheist beach parties or picnics.

Have you not been getting the invites?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
11.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Randy @11    6 years ago

Honestly, the ONLY time I ever see atheists come together as atheists is when religious folks are overstepping their bounds. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Participates
11.2.1  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Thrawn 31 @11.2    6 years ago
Honestly, the ONLY time I ever see atheists come together as atheists is when religious folks are overstepping their bounds.

It's hard to imagine atheists grouping together other than for that purpose.  Meetings to discuss the non-existence of something aren't exactly high on the social calendar.  About their only attractive quality is how short they'd be so people could get to something important, like  drinking. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
11.2.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @11.2.1    6 years ago

If there isn't any booze I am not attending. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
13  TᵢG    6 years ago
So yes, the modern breed of atheist is arrogant, ignorant and dangerous.

Do you really think it is valuable to put forth categorical attacks?    Really heartland?   This is the hasty generalization fallacy - taking characteristics of a few and applying them to all.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
13.1  Raven Wing  replied to  TᵢG @13    6 years ago

Comment removed for skirting the CoC.

I have addressed all of the flags on this article. The fact is that many of the comments are off-topic, and half of those are posted by the member who seeded the article. If this keeps up, I will recommend to Perrie that the article be closed for good.   jwc2blue

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
13.2  Split Personality  replied to  TᵢG @13    6 years ago

Interesting rebuttal from one of the USA's atheists which make up maybe 1.5% of the population (frequently confused by zealots with 'non-religious' people)

DeStefano closes the piece with his central thesis:

"… that’s exactly what modern-day atheists are — bullies; bullies who are doing their best to intimidate the rest of us into silence."

Who knew Christians were unable to talk? I thought churches and bookstores and podcasts and websites and damn near everyone in Congress were enough to get their message to a wider audience.

Good thing we have the guy who wrote a book and published an excerpt from it on FoxNews.com telling us how no one lets him speak .

His whole book is like this. It’s a lot of whining with no substance. It’s a lot of conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality. It’s a lot of name-calling and dog whistles.

Read more at

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
14  Thrawn 31    6 years ago

God, some Christians are such babies. Atheists being allowed to express our opinions and preventing you from violating the US Constitution is not bullying, grow the fuck up. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
15  Kavika     6 years ago

This train is bound for glory. I'm on my way to Canaan's Land. 

All you sinners and non sinners, be you Christian, Muslim, Wiccan, Buddist, Hindu, Shinto, Jewish, Atheist or any other. Give me your hand brother and sister and I'll  lead you to the promised land. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
15.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Kavika @15    6 years ago
and I'll  lead you to the promised land.

I'll pass thanks. (smile)

But, I did watch that movie. Billy Graham reminded me a lot of Elmer Gantry and his cornies.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
15.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Kavika @15    6 years ago

Great movie!

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
16  Split Personality    6 years ago

Locked until someone (else) can address the flagged items

or until XX returns to moderate his seed.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
16.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Split Personality @16    6 years ago

Im in the dentist office after work. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
16.1.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  XXJefferson51 @16.1    6 years ago

And I’m done now.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
16.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Split Personality @16    6 years ago

I can’t deal with the flagged items...eek

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
16.2.1  katrix  replied to  XXJefferson51 @16.2    6 years ago

then don't post this crap if you can't handle it.  

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
16.2.2  Raven Wing  replied to  XXJefferson51 @16.2    6 years ago

" I can’t deal with the flagged items... eek "

But you expect the Mods to do it for you. Right?

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
16.2.3  katrix  replied to  Raven Wing @16.2.2    6 years ago

Comment removed for skirting the CoC. jwc2blue  Post a bunch of bullshit, and then when it's refuted logically, disappear.  It would be one thing if he had a cohesive argument for any of the tripe he posts; then, we could have an interesting debate.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
16.2.4  Raven Wing  replied to  katrix @16.2.3    6 years ago

I totally agree. Wash, rinse and repeat.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
16.2.5  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  katrix @16.2.1    6 years ago

I seeded a great article.  If I had the power to deal with flagged items as the seeder, I would.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
16.2.6  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  katrix @16.2.3    6 years ago

I think I have quite a good number of posts on this seed.  

 
 
 
katrix
Sophomore Participates
16.2.7  katrix  replied to  XXJefferson51 @16.2.5    6 years ago

You seeded a crap article whining about how you're no longer able to legally discriminate against others, and claiming that those of us who don't need threats in order to behave are disgusting because we have better morals than you do, and because we use our brains.

Same thing you've always done.  I know your religion better than you do - and I follow Jesus' words far better than you.  

So tomorrow, if I write an article about how everyone of any faith is such a horrible person, just as you posted about all atheists (except unlike you, I wouldn't do that - because it's not true, and I value facts and logic) - who will be demanding that Perrie take it down because it calls out an entire group of people with derogatory terms?  You have no clue about atheists, or many other things, but that doesn't stop you from slamming them any chance you get.  At least when I talk about religion, I know what I'm talking about.  You don't even know the difference between a gnostic and an agnostic, despite the history in your church about those things, and despite how much you SHOULD have learned in NV and NT over the years.  You have no interest in learning ... you only want to whine and stir up crap, and divide Americans to ruin our great country.  

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
16.2.8  Raven Wing  replied to  katrix @16.2.7    6 years ago

thumbs up

 
 
 
Telo
Freshman Silent
16.2.9  Telo  replied to  XXJefferson51 @16.2    6 years ago

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that he was saying that he's not a moderator so he can't take care of the flagged issues.

Obviously that was too much for the kitty and bird to understand so they have to go on the attack.

Ignore would be such a great option that unfortunately isn't possible.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
16.2.10  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Telo @16.2.9    6 years ago

Thanks.  You are right.  Attack is all they have as they otherwise have nothing to say. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
16.2.11  sandy-2021492  replied to  XXJefferson51 @16.2.10    6 years ago
Attack is all they have as they otherwise have nothing to say.

When your entire seed was an unfounded attack, well, the hypocrisy is laughable.  As usual.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
16.2.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  Raven Wing @16.2.8    6 years ago

I second that thought

 
 

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