Starbucks will close all 8,000 US coffee shops next month for employee racial bias training
The announcement comes after a growing backlash over the arrests of two black men at a Philadelphia Starbucks.
Starbucks says it will close all its US coffee shops on May 29 to provide racial bias training to nearly 175,000 employees. The training — aimed at preventing discrimination at Starbucks shops — comes in response to swift public outcry over the arrest of two black men at a Starbucks in Philadelphia.
The two men were waiting for a business associate to arrive at the coffee shop April 12 and asked to use the bathroom. They hadn’t ordered anything, and staff asked them to leave. They refused. A manager reportedly called 911 because Starbucks does “not allow nonpaying people from the public to come in and use the restroom,” Philadelphia Police Commissioner Richard Ross told the Philadelphia Inquirer . The employees said the men were trespassing because they refused to leave.
A video of the arrest went viral on Twitter, showing the two men complying with the six police officers who came to the store. It also showed customers protesting as police removed the men’s chairs to escort them out. “This is ridiculous,” one customer says.
@Starbucks The police were called because these men hadn’t ordered anything. They were waiting for a friend to show up, who did as they were taken out in handcuffs for doing nothing. All the other white ppl are wondering why it’s never happened to us when we do the same thing. pic.twitter.com/0U4Pzs55Ci
— Melissa DePino (@missydepino) April 12, 2018
On Tuesday, the Philadelphia Police Department released recordings of the 911 call.
“Hi I have two gentlemen at my cafe who are refusing to make a purchase and leave,” a woman told a police dispatcher over the phone.
“All right, police will be there as soon as possible,” the dispatcher responded.
The dispatcher talked to officers who responded to the scene, and in one call, a police officer asks for backup to handle “the disturbance.” He doesn’t give any details about what the disturbance was about.
The incident has opened up a discussion about race in public spaces , and led to calls to boycott the company as well as protests at the Philadelphia Starbucks where the men were arrested.
Starbucks has moved to reduce the fallout from the incident, with CEO Kevin Johnson traveling to Philadelphia to apologize to the men in person. Johnson also met with Philadelphia officials to discuss the incident. The Philadelphia employee who called the police has been fired from the company.
“I’ve spent the last few days in Philadelphia with my leadership team listening to the community, learning what we did wrong and the steps we need to take to fix it,” Johnson said in a statement Tuesday announcing the bias training.
The training will take place at all company-owned stores and will involve some 175,000 employees.
The training, which will be made available to other companies, will be developed with the assistance of a number of national civil rights groups and experts, including the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund, Demos, the Anti-Defamation League, the Equal Justice Initiative, and former US Attorney General Eric Holder. The experts will also help review “the effectiveness of the measures” taken by the company, according to a Tuesday statement.
The May closing isn’t the first time that Starbucks has closed its locations for a training. In 2008, the company closed 7,100 stores for three hours to educate employees in the “art of espresso.”
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A lot of racists choking on their afternoon cup of coffee this afternoon.
I'm sure Al Sharpton was as surprised as everybody else.
What's your point in posting this story?
it's just to irritate you greg and get you to ask that question.
That stupid racist bitch doesn't represent Starbucks. She represents any stupid racist bitch. Deleted skirting {SP}
Starbucks wouldn't have had this problem if they didn't have the stupid policy of not letting somebody use the restroom in the first place.
I think the problem stemmed from the perception that whites are allowed to sit in the coffee shop and wait to meet someone but blacks are not. At least not as demonstrated in this case.
How do you know whites weren't asked to leave and weren't arrested at any other Starbucks in the country?
"All the other white ppl are wondering why it’s never happened to us when we do the same thing."
That is from the seeded article.
I don't know if there is any other location in the country where the same thing has happened to whites.
Starbucks doesn't seem to think so.
That quote was from a mindless tweet from somebody who I'm sure spent zero minutes looking into it.
LOL Why was it a mindless tweet? Because you don't approve of it?
People drink coffee every day. If Starbucks closes nationwide on a business day they are forgoing a lot of coffee sales that they can't make up.
It was mindless because she had nothing to back it up as proof.
Except of course personal observation and experience.
"Except of course personal observation and experience."
aka anecdotes
Saw this extended interview with several, including the Police Chief in Philly (from the Daily Caller). It fills in a lot of the spaces that are left out in the rush to convict Starbucks. Their CEO has decided to buy into the Political Correctness at the cost of a Day's profits, so the high and mighty on the left will accept them again.
The video is on FB, I don't have the time to go find it elsewhere.
Really? What part of their experience was 'amusing'?
The police chief defends his officers. That is all it is.
It was interesting to learn that the Starbucks there is in a gentrified (white) neighborhood where blacks are often stopped by cops. It does shed a new light on this story. The manager wants to "fit in" and wants her store to fit in so she reported two black guys so the cops could come and "stop them" like they do to those walking down the street in that neighborhood.
An anecdote doesn't necessarily mean funny. It means it's an unverified account that can't be proven.
Oh please DO provide a link to that definition.
"An anecdote is a brief, revealing account of an individual person or an incident.[1] Occasionally humorous, anecdotes differ from jokes because their primary purpose is not simply to provoke laughter but to reveal a truth more general than the brief tale itself, such as to characterize a person by delineating a specific quirk or trait, to communicate an abstract idea about a person, place, or thing through the concrete details of a short narrative.[2] An anecdote is "a story with a point."
Scroll down to the part about anecdotal evidence and you will see what I mean. If you are still confused ask the information section at your local library.
They're use to believing anything they read if it supports what they would like to believe. Liberals are the most racist people alive and Starbucks is certainly a super Left Wing operation, supporting only Left Wing agenda. Thanks Starbucks for proving to us once again who the real racist are. Where did that happen again? Oh Philadelphia. I bet it was right in the middle of a white Liberal community too. Philadelphia is the 18th most Liberal city in the country with Detroit being #1.
All this seed proves is that there can be an obvious case of racial profiling , and the white grievance crowd will start deny it tooth and nail. Thanks Newstalkers conservatives !
How is it obvious? Nobody has proved at all that this Starbucks didn't treat everyone like that. You have zero evidence and unproven allegations.
So you state:
Then provide a definition that doesn't support your statement and your cheering section didn't even notice...
I'm guessing you either didn't click on the link you asked for or you didn't understand it.
Unsurprisingly, you'd be guessing wrong.
Why is that a stupid policy? Have you ever had a job where you had to clean the bathroom? Do you clean your own bathroom? Do you really want anyone and everyone, with no limits, coming to use the bathroom you have to clean?
For the business owner it is a stupid policy. People who are past or potential customers might appreciate a place to rest or meet somebody even if they aren't spending money at that moment. The only time it would be a good idea to enforce a mandatory order policy or have locked bathrooms are in high crime areas where a lot of homeless or drug abusers will camp out and trash the place. The part I disagree with the left is that this hasn't been proven to be racial at all. For all anybody can prove this store treated all their non customers like that.
IMO SB is doing what it is needed. If any more of these incidents occur, then they get a fail and deserve any lawsuit against them that might occur.
no purchase...no bathroom. I get that. What I don't get is.....why is it racist? I bet it has happened to white people before. Would they step forward, please, so we can protest? When are we going to start doing that? And, I want a hat!
I think I might take this on as a little project. I need a sponsor. I am leaving young people out of this, however, they can carry signs, push extra wheelchairs, carry oxygen tanks, etc. Anytime that an elderly white person does not get the proper attention anyplace, anywhere, anytime they will have a toll free number to call. Blacks are already covered.....this is a white thing, That area volunteers/protesters will show up at the spot immediately and protest their little hearts out.
This, also, applies to religions. It is called religionism. Any color, but black and brown, They are already protected. You can be a Muslim, Baptist, Catholic, Mormon.....anything.
I am fed up with the black thing. White people never make a wave. We are ridiculed and dumped on. If this is truly a divisive Country it has to represent ALL, but we just sit back and listen to the propaganda of how we are so privileged. We are supposedly responsible for what happened 200 years ago. Well, I don't hear this shit coming from England, France or Germany (the biggest culprit of all).
If a story is published having to do with blacks, it is immediately assumed it is a race bait article. That's going to change.
I am a white racist....make a note of that. If blacks want to be recognized for the contributions they have made to our Country, then, stand tall. Don't let anyone put you down. Don't use your crutch that our government has given you.
Our disabled need our help....they cannot do it alone. I am recovering from an illness and.probably, only have six months on this fabulous Earth....hope they are wrong. I am scared shitless.
Yes, I want people to listen. Be proud and don't give in to name calling.....bigot and racist. The blacks are the racists of all and they can be because the government and liberals are behind them,
Focus on the homeless and disabled,
Did you miss the part of the story where a no purchase white man was allowed to use the bathroom prior to the black man being denied the same courtesy. That is what the uproar is about.
Did you miss the part where the white guy was a regular customer who came in every day? Of course you did, because they didn't tell you that, but if that was the case and may very well be, you and I don't know, would that make a difference? That's why I say they give you information to promote the opinion they want you to have and leave out information that would give you the opportunity to actually get down into thinking and reasoning. Let me ask them some questions.
So what if he was a regular customer. Their policy is no buy, no use. It's not you have bought before, so use.
I hope you are speaking out of frustration, because if you aren't, well, you have to do better than that. We all do.
We are going to do better when we recognize that each and everyone of us is important.
You would have been one of the people saying that little black girls shouldnt bother to try and go to the same schools as whites. After all they had perfectly good schools of their own didnt they?
See if you can understand something
"Over the weekend, a video circulated on the Internet of police handcuffing and removing two black men from a Starbucks in Philadelphia last Thursday, April 12. The incident is illustrative of what pains many African Americans about the threats of gentrification: The men were reportedly charged with trespassing, and for a neighborhood like Philly’s Rittenhouse Square, where the trespassed Starbucks is located, that may have been true in the eyes of a cafe manager trying to interpret the motives of two black people sitting in the establishment without ordering something.
On VisitPhilly.com, Rittenhouse Square is promoted as “the heart of Center City’s most expensive and exclusive neighborhood.”
Even though Philadelphia has a large African-American population, Rittenhouse Square is one of its whitest neighborhoods. The charges of trespassing against these two black men have to be viewed through that lens. It must also be answered whether the two men were simply trespassing on private property or whether they were trespassing on property located in an “exclusive” neighborhood—meaning excluding people who look like them.
The American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania has something to say about that, having collected data on police encounters with African Americans across the city since 2011 as part of a consent decree concerning racially discriminatory police patterns . What the ACLU found is that the police service area where Rittenhouse Square is located has “the highest racial disparities in pedestrian stops in the entire city”—67 percent of the people stopped there are African American , despite the black population in this area being only 3 percent.
“Are Black people not welcome in this neighborhood? That’s the message that is sent by police officers who repeatedly stop African-Americans there without cause,” reads a statement from Reggie Shuford, executive director of the ACLU of Pennsylvania. “There was no need for this incident to end with these two men in handcuffs. And it wouldn’t have, if Commissioner Ross and the leadership of District 9 were serious about ending the mistreatment of Black people in that neighborhood and all over Philadelphia.”
On April 16, 2018, a coffee beans roast sign sits in front of protestors holding an "End Stop & Frisk" sign inside a Starbucks where two black men were arrested five days earlier in Philadelphia. (REUTERS/Mark Makela)To be clear, the two men arrested at the Starbucks were not randomly selected and approached by police and then patted down for drugs and guns, as per the usual stop-and-frisk modus operandi. Instead, a Starbucks manager called the police, who came in squad deep, and used their discretion to make an arrest. However, criminal justice activists are treating the Starbucks ordeal as akin to stop-and-frisk practices, perhaps because of the context of the neighborhood where it happened. And this may not be the first time that black people have had problems in that Starbucks .
Starbucks, by design, does not separate itself from the character of its local host gentry.Meanwhile, Philadelphia’s District Attorney Larry Krasner, a former criminal defender who is quite sensitive to the overpolicing of African Americans , declined to bring charges against the two men who were arrested. There have also been protests at the Rittenhouse Square Starbucks almost every day now since a video of the incident went viral over the weekend. The Starbucks manager who called the police has since left the store and claims that she did not intend to have this end in arrests. Starbucks CEO Kevin Johnson apologized publicly on behalf of his company and met with the two men in person on Monday, reportedly to ask forgiveness.
“Ambiguity was part of what caused the problem, the ambiguity about when and whether to call the police,” said Johnson in an interview . “There are situations where it’s appropriate to call the police, situations where there are threats or disruptions in our store. This situation had none of that and these two gentlemen did not deserve what unfolded.”
Many of the people involved in the apologia have invoked “ unconscious bias ” as a culprit in this racial spillover, and Starbucks announced today it was closing all of its stores next month for a racial bias training. Even the NAACP said in a statement that the “Starbucks situation provides dangerous insight regarding the failure of our nation to take implicit bias seriously.”
It’s not clear what makes this an act of the unconscious or implicit variety, though. If a neighborhood is selling itself as “exclusive” then it’s more difficult to draw the line between covert and just plain ol’ overt racism. Starbucks, by design, does not separate itself from the character of its local host gentry. As it reads on the Starbucks store design webpage : “We believe a coffeehouse should be a welcoming, inviting and familiar place for people to connect, so we design our stores to reflect the unique character of the neighborhoods they serve.”
The only ambiguity is how Starbucks defines “welcoming,” “inviting,” and “familiar,” given this is not what African Americans in this neighborhood seem to experience. Instead, the Starbucks manager may have been doing what she was supposed to do, by carrying out her company’s store design mission, by reflecting the character of a neighborhood where black people are stopped and frisked at an extraordinary clip. In that case, training for “unconscious bias” is not what’s needed; what’s needed is a fundamental change of its design—one that allows a Starbucks store to actually make good on its inclusive goals, even if located in an “exclusive” neighborhood.
Despite Starbucks’ stated goals, and campaigns like its controversial “Race Together” experiment , many people still protest when a Starbucks is scheduled to open in their neighborhood. When opening in a black community, a concern is whether the cafe actually will adopt the character of that black neighborhood, or if it will traffic in the kind of values that personify it as a “ white space ,” as Jamelle Bouie calls it in Slate ."
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/04/suspiciously-black-in-starbucks/558257/?utm_source=twb
You certainly assume a lot don't you?
Don't bring up some race baiting 'cause it ain't gonna work.
At least, I have been honest with my feeling which doesn't seem to prevail around here. I treat people the same....ALL people. If it is reciprocated....great. Otherwise, I walk on. The only ones who don't fall into this category are the homeless, disabled, children and the elderly as I will do anything I can to alleviate a problem they have.
"Even though Philadelphia has a large African-American population, Rittenhouse Square is one of its whitest neighborhoods. The charges of trespassing against these two black men have to be viewed through that lens."
So basically the left wants to judge everything and make presumptions based on skin color- which is exactly what racism represents. The irony would be laughable if the subject wasn't so serious.
So the people who complain about racism are the real racists because they bring up race.
Nice tortured logic you have there.
That's what's so funny. They weren't arrested because they hadn't ordered anything, they were arrested because they were asked to leave by employees and refused. That is trespassing. The cops got there and asked them 3 times to leave. They refused so they were arrested for trespassing not because they didn't want to by starschmucks over priced swill.
As usual , it is instructive as to the makeup of Newstalkers to see which of the usual suspects will come on a seed like this and launch into a defense of the perpetrators of injustice.
Ok what was unjust about the police action of removing people that refused to leave when asked by employees and police? That is trespassing which is an arrestable offence.
Those people weren't doing anything to disrupt the business. If the manager had waited a few minutes the guy they were meeting would have showed up and "white is right" would have prevailed again.
Look, this isn't rocket science. It is a white neighborhood and an upper income white neighborhood at that. Blacks are not entirely "welcome" in the neighborhood as seen by the number of police stops of blacks in the area, some of which surely stem from calls similar to this one in Starbucks.
and you lost
I'm not completely sure why you keep searching for comments that will defend the manager, but I have an idea.
Some people comfort themselves by announcing that racism no longer exists. It is not at all uncommon.
There are people, who go to that store, that said they are not asked to leave if they don't buy something. White people.
For some reason you insist on creating a mode of denial about what happened there. That is for you to explain, not me.
Doesn't matter if they were sitting there silently twiddling their thumbs they were asked to leave by employees and they refused. That is trespassing which is why they were arrested not because they didn't buy anything. The cops actions were not unjust in any way. They also asked the gentlemen to leave and they refused.
As to why they were asked to leave could it have been racism? Possibly but who knows. Your cited reports say that this is a predominately white area with a higher rate of police interactions with minorities but had the gentlemen simply left the police would have never been called.
Could they have been asked to leave because they asked to use the restroom but were told no since they weren't a paying customer and then decided to sit and wait for their friend taking space from a paying customer? Possibly but who knows.
What is known is that their refusal to leave the private property prompted the call to 911 to report the gentleman as refusing to leave after being asked to by employees. Their action caused the police to become involved. Once the police arrived they asked the gentlemen 3 times to leave the private property which they refused to do. The only option the officers were left with was the rightful arrest for trespassing. There was nothing unjust about the arrest as they were arrested for trespassing on private property. They weren't arrested for being black in a predominately white neighborhood. They weren't arrested for not buying over priced swill. Nor were they arrested for sitting silently while waiting on a friend. They were justly arrested for trespassing.
This could have been handled differently on starschmucks side and could have been handled differently by the gentlemen waiting on their friend but the cops did everything by the book so there was nothing unjust about their arrest.
Of course it matters. If they were making trouble a call to the police could be justified. Rather , they were technically in violation of a trespassing ordinance, I suppose, but nothing was happening. No fighting, no disruption of the business, no damage to property.
The cops have nothing to do with it. They did their jobs and if they didnt succeed in getting the two black guys to leave perhaps the manager would have complained about them to their boss. Who knows?
Generally people do not get arrested for doing nothing. And in fact the local prosecutor declined to press charges.
Everyone knows that people sometimes hang out in Starbucks even though they are not buying anything at the moment. It is comical if not pitiful to try and use a "rule" to justify what is fairly obviously disparate treatment based on 'appearance'.
They where making trouble. They where asked to leave and refused. Let's just hang at your house and refuse to leave when asked.
You are leaving out what precipitated them being asked to leave.
Did they receive disparate treatment compared to other people who are allowed to stay in a Starbucks without buying anything? There is testimony in the news stories about this incident that indicates the answer to that question is "yes".
Case closed.
If there were no there there Starbucks wouldnt be closing nationwide on a business day and losing hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars in revenue they cannot recover.
As I said both parties could have handled it differently but still their actions mattered. They were in a private business and asked to leave. At that point they could have left and waited for their friend outside on the public sidewalk. The manager could have said sure go ahead and use the restroom and after they were finished who knows they may have bought a coffee while they waited.
Either way if you are on private property you have to abide by what the person in charge of that property says. There was no reason for this to ever involve the cops. Unfortunately both sides were stubborn and law enforcement was involved.
From the police commissioner's video post he said that Starbucks had refused to press charges but I've also been seeing that the DA refused to press charges. But that aside they weren't arrested for doing nothing they were arrested for trespassing.
Personally I've never been into a starbucks as I'm not a big coffee drinker so my only experience with them is through a friend who goes there all of the time. His response was people buy a small cup of coffee and nurse it for hours while soaking up the free wifi. Not taking up for anyone other than the law enforcement which from the part that I quoted above were being blamed for arresting them for no reason which simply was incorrect.
They where asked to leave and refused is why the police where called, what precipitated prior to that is irrelevant. They had no right to be there after they where asked to leave. And still refused after the police asked them to leave. They where not denied any services so no discrimination involved.
If they felt wronged, then take it up later with the owner. No fault but their own that they left in handcuffs.
Yes case closed.
Don't be surprised if people make assumptions about you based on your replies to news stories like this one. You all but ask people to make assumptions about you.
John, you have no moral high ground here. You don't have all the facts to base your judgement of the situation on. How do you know that other people have not been asked to leave and just left without making a big stink out of it? Does that make the headlines? Again, we are responsible for own actions and the consequences of those.
Your underhanded personal digs are always noted.
We see the SAME people in every instance such as this, complain about blacks and black activists. It DOES NOT even matter to you people what the facts and circumstances of a particular case are. The blacks are trying to take advantage and political correctness is abetting them.
The rest of us can analyze these assertions on this forum as we see fit.
Ah BS, this is a dog and pony show with Starbucks closing for an afternoon.
This whole story is lacking in so much information in the first place. Had that store had any problems in the past? Was that customer who got the code a regular. You see, you can make anything you want to convince the people to believe in the way it is reported by putting some information in and leaving out other information.
Some of the places I find myself in daily aren't too keen on letting just anyone use their bathrooms either and I can tell you I've been in bathrooms with the seats torn off the commodes, broken mirrors, urine all over the floor, poop in the trash can, needles in the trash cans and even sinks torn off the wall. I can't blame people for being a little skeptical about who uses their bathrooms. The places I am in daily aren't occupied by the the Lilly White Liberals or Right Wingers. They're occupied by Indians, Mexicans and Blacks with the Indians usually running the business and everyone else buying beer and whatever those cigars are called that you put pot in. Finding a bathroom I'm willing to use is a big problem for me.
I don't know how other people do it, but the first place I go when I go into a restaurant I don't frequent is the bathroom. If the bathroom is unkept I don't eat there.
Funny, I would say the manager was a person of color as well. I guess that debunks the accusation people of color can't be racists.
The fact is we are not given enough information, even with the video, to make an educated opinion whether she was being racist or for some reason we aren't being privileged to know. Maybe they have been having problems in that Starbucks and these guys fit the description of the people who have been responsible for those problems.
maybe those people bought something before or left a good tip last time
I was right. This restaurant is right in the middle of Lilly White Liberalville. The same people who accuse anyone from the south as being a racist while completely ignoring the racism they espouse daily. The same people who go back to their million dollar homes, closing their gates to protect themselves from all those they self-righteously claim to defend. They think they see racism in everyone else and fail to recognize it in themselves. They fail to treat everyone equally according to their deeds and ignore bad behavior in order to be PC, except when it affects them. And accuse others who acknowledge misdeeds for what they are as being the racists. These are the hypocrites who live their lives obsessed with identity politics and skin color.
So, the only thing 'right thinking' people here should do is come to a story and agree with whatever your position is?
Are you out of your mind? Do you even read the crap you post? Self-righteous doesn't even begin to cover your remarks.
John, isn't that a violation of the COC? Are you supposed to address the comments and not the person? Why do you feel the need to denigrate others all the time? Some type of personal shortcoming?
Virtually every conservative that posted on this seed agreed that the black guys were at fault. Remarkably s/, white people who were on the scene tweeted that Starbucks was at fault.
What we are seeing here is the "conservative" expression of "white grievance", the notion that black "activists" are uppity and too pushy , and liberals are too eager to help them protest.
Again, as usual the conservatives in these exchanges try and make themselves the victims. They are being put upon by ungrateful minorities.
Even when there is a clear cut case like this we see this white grievance. You are in there pitching too. A lot of your seeds and comments are lamentations of political correctness, arent they?
I think you need to read your own comments more often.
Well, you style yourself as the voice of all knowledge here on NT, so I'll tell you what, you take the lead and I'll follow.
Sorry Spike, I am not going to apologize for knowing how to express my opinions in a coherent fashion.
Speaking for others now?
I have analyzed your assertions and comments, and they are obviously prejudice in nature. You have no facts or evidence of any bias in this situation, yet make false accusations about people actions. You have based your opinion solely on where the store is located and the race of all involved. You have used stereotyping and biased reasoning to come to a conclusion.
This is troubling to say the least.
So them uppity black folks need to know their place right?
Starbucks is mandating racial sensitivity training for 175,000 employees based on this incident. Evidently they think they know what happened and that it has to be addressed. Yet you think that your assessment that the two black guys were at fault carries more weight.
Who is out of touch?
So you agree that you have based your opinion on no facts or evidence that the employee was bias in her actions.
Great!
The thing is, I never do "the same thing" because I have a basic level of respect for the people who run the business I am sitting in. I have had many meetings in restaurants and cafes, but I always order something. If I happen to be waiting for someone, I will tell the staff/management. I might want to wait to order, but if they insist I order or move, I will order something. After all, it's not my house or my office. I am a guest and I understand that.
If you think you don't need to show this basic level of respect because you are black, then you are the one with a problem.
Unfortunately, you only think you do, what you actually do is spew hate filled one sided opinions and you chastise everyone else that doesn't fall into lock step with what you have to say. You can't have an adult discussion without insulting others who have the temerity to disagree with you. I was just reading another story where you derailed your own article just to have a personal attack fest against another member of this site. So, please, don't try to tell anyone here how erudite you are. No one believes it.
I've heard it all before Spike. Just about every 'conservative' that came on this thread criticized the two blacks and claimed that calling the police was appropriate. Those opinions are not reached in an objective way. They are preconceptions.
I hope they're wrong too .. but I don't understand why you're scared shitless. I thought half the point of faith was to believe that there is a better place waiting when our time on Earth is done.
When my mom was a deacon, she said that only the Baptists she ministered to were terrified of dying - because of how terrible they were told their god is, and how horrible they were constantly told they were. Her response to them was (and would be to you as well) - "that's not the loving God I know."
Well, this is true. All of it.
I have reasons that have nothing to do with my faith, but when I spent six months in hospital/rehab.
She's probably worried that he read the rest of that post, and the parable of the Good Samaritan belatedly came to mind.
Mags,
I don't even get why you think you are dying. They don't put people who are dying in rehab. They put them in hospice. So, you must be misunderstanding something.
I am under hospice care. Wish I hadn't said anything. Forget it. Guess I was in a poor me mood.
Mags, I was not trying to be mean about your condition. I just don't understand what is going on.
NP....sometimes. people just get mean. Look, I am trying to cope, ok? Not another word from me on the subject.
Ok.
Even though, we disagree politically and religiously, I sincerely hope that you have loved ones to help and comfort you.
i am wishing you the best and hoping for a speedy recovery for you. Please do take care of yourself (and don't let anyone bully you)
I remember your being ill. Glad you are ok now.
Love to you Mags!!!!
Fear of dying badly, I can get. Fear of death, not so much.
After seeing what my mom's going through with dementia - and she doesn't even have Alzheimer's - I think I'll take myself out while I still can, if I'm ever diagnosed with either of those. Although, who knows .. the will to survive can be strong, so I won't know until/if I get to that point. I hope I find the strength, though - I can't imagine much worse than living for 10 years without my mind.
Were you under a rock during the Charlottesville riots?
Ever heard of Richard Spencer?
I trust you don't see the irony here.
I do.
Why would you say something like that? Do you actually think you are better than blacks because you are white, or are you trying to say something else? You do realize that at the end of the day, we all bleed red, right?
That is because you forget to put the seat down.
But.....aren't we a country reflecting "Gender neutrality' now ?
I'm so confused ....................
I do !
It's a great excuse to get MORE privacy during the day.
Porcelain is actually your friend.
He can't. He sprays the round ones low and to the left, and looking at the inverted U-shaped ones gives him a boner.
I'm sure you can handle it, .... repeatedly. Does the local sperm bank buy specimen?
No, I am not better than blacks and never alluded to that. My beef is political and the PC crap. It is so "in". I lived in a mixed neighborhood in N.O. growing up. They took the bus just like me. They worked menial jobs just like my Dad. There was no difference between us so, pull that crap with me.
I line them with paper and still hover LOL
But then you pee on it! I hate using the toilet after a woman who hovers.
Men should always put the seat up before they pee. Women should always put the seat down before they pee. Then, we have no problems.
Many places have 'Out of Order' on their doors. It hasn't happened many times to me, but it has happened and the last time it happened to me was by a Muslim woman working at a store I was in. I've seen many people going in that bathroom with the 'Out of Order' sign on it and not a one of them were white. If it really mattered to me, I could call her boss, who I know, and straighten her out right away, but it's not that important to me. I've never said another word about it to her.
Mag, I can't tell you how many people who thought they only had six months to live who were told that six years or more ago. You're not going anywhere anytime soon. Let me suggest talking with Enoch about it. I'm concerned and would like for you to talk to Enoch if you will.
Thank you. Actually, three months. My sons really took exception to this. I have a handle on this now....I will go when I go. My minister, Rev. Matt, is my confidante.
Thank you, again.
Are black employees required to attend?
They will act out skits.
on how not to leave private property when asked?
Yes, because two black guys 'loitering' outside of 'private property' is so much less likely to cause the police to be called... /s
So you would be OK if it had been two white guys.
So you would be OK if I pointed out just how juvenile that twisting of words actually reads.
Since you are on NT on almost a daily basis, you must see them regularly.
NO! Who'da thunk it?
Starbucks coffee was a great letdown, heard how good it was and was disappointed. I love Sheetz coffee!
Way too bitter for my tastes. I hear they make it really strong in the expectation that most people will be adding lots of cream and sugar. I take my coffee black, no sugar, and theirs just tastes awful that way.
Agreed sandy. Also a huge waste of money.
You mean a cup-a-joe ain't supposed to cause your hair to crawl around on your head and your bowels to evacuate?
I always assumed the whole point of Starbucks was the jolt of caffeine one got from drinking that overpriced sludge...
It tastes like I always Imagined Lisa Douglas' coffee must have tasted like on Green Acres. Goes with the hots cakes.
I just don't drink coffee....at all.
I'm sorry.
An odd observation considering they are two of the best selling.
Many stores have signs stating "no public restrooms". If you are a customer. then. go for it. Additionally, some people think it is all about them and rules don't apply.
It's ironic to see this happen to a company that so self righteously woke.
I guess ordering employees to engage in unsolicited discussions about race and privilege with their customers doesn't inoculate against the diversity shakedown. Eric Holder's going to make bank off this.
"Starbucks says it will close all its US coffee shops on May 29 to provide racial bias training to nearly 175,000 employees."
You mean.....I have to take time to make my own coffee ? Those assholes !
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in the last few days.
Let it Snow, Let it Snow, Let it Snow !
Reminds me of when Michelle freaked out because someone asked her to reach an item on a high shelf.
The victim culture lives on.
What does that have to do with the fucking price of tea in china?
We weren't talking about Chinese Tea....so...."Nothing" !
Here we go again...... this is why Trump was elected. To accuse the whole company of being racist is absurd.
There is a policy in place. Order or leave. The end. If the policy is not followed then those employees who are not enforcing the policy should be a) retrained b)reprimanded and/or eventually c) fired.
The police ARE biased. Everyone knows this and should factor this in whenever they contact them. We can pretty much expect the police to a) arrest the black person b) harass the black person or c) murder the black person.
Bottom line: Order a fucking drink or a muffin or sit your ass outside AND never call the police. They only make matters worse.
I agree the company is not racist. However, even though I'm dubious about this particular case, I do think a company can - and should - take steps to promote an environment where employees treat all customers with dignity and respect. This is why Chik Fil A is consistently #1 in customer satisfaction . It's a priority for management.
Hmmm . . . maybe instead of protesting Chick Fil-A, people should be protesting when a Starbucks comes to town.
After reading the comments from conservatives here, its is obvious the entire country needs more education about inherent and insidious racial biases. Sad to me that so many white people just don't get it. There is an immediate knee jerk defense of anybody who exhibits a different (harsher) standard. It shows how far we still have to go. I think this is another area the younger generation will lead. My generation really didn't reach our potential, nothing to be proud of there at all. In some ways we've gone backward lately. Sad.
Personally, I enjoy the coffee.
Whether actual or presumed, the visual implication of racism has nothing to do with the scheduled training. CEO's response is a business decision. Shareholders are the beneficiaries.
Coffee on America!
There's just so much we don't know about this story, it's impossible to know if this was really racist or not.
First of all, it's very common for businesses to expect you to order something if you want to sit at their tables. Starbucks is not a public meeting place. It's not a library or a public park. It's a private business. If someone goes in there and orders coffee and a muffin, they shouldn't be prohibited from sitting down to enjoy it by someone who isn't even patronizing the place.
But we also don't know how long these guys were there before the manager spoke to them. We don't know if maybe this is something they've done before. We don't know if white people are typically allowed to take up tables without ordering. Seems unlikely.
One thing I do know generally about trespass cases is that usually cops don't make an arrest unless someone refuses to leave. So the question is: if you aren't a paying customer, what makes you think you have a right to be there?
1st off, most private businesses dont start a clock on when people enter and then yell at a customer when they need to order or leave.
2nd its been two days of comments on this topic and enough information has been produced for a person who cares more about all citizens being treated equally while on private property. So it seems a reasonable person can make a common sense judgement about why this situation is unacceptable AT ANY DAM COFFEE SHOP.
3RD police issue trespass notices when they think they can have the business enforce it.
trespassing has nothing to do with the police but everything to do with the business and they made it clear they were not going to sign a complaint about enforcing a law that is based on unruly people RETURNING to a place they have been disorderly at.
so again, lets see, there is no ORDER CLOCK, there is no stated timeline posted upon entry to the business, and there is no posted or estimated documented aspect to how long someone can be on private property.
so really it is just as it has been expressed. to black men were dealt with based on a lack of professional tolerance by a manager who chose to use bias in subjecting these two guys to a business policy which was not needed.
i guess the question is really what matters more to you.
I don't know what your data is for "most businesses," but I have been in several establishments that posted actual signs declaring that people would not be allowed to use their restrooms or sit in their seats if they weren't ordering food. I have seen these rules enforced on people of all colors. It's just not unusual.
Generally, in trespass cases, cops tell the trespasser to leave. If they do, no citation is issued. If they refuse, the cop will start writing a ticket. If they still won't leave, they get arrested. It is always in the trespasser's power to de-escalate these situations. The bottom line is that it's private property and no one - other than the owner - has any particular right to be there.
You seem to be suggesting that this Starbucks won't serve black people. I doubt that's true. They just don't offer free seating for people who won't buy anything - no matter what color they are. In that regard, they are like many other businesses. I would hope you could at least acknowledge that such policies are common practice in the restaurant industry.
funny so have i... and yet to the normal folks who dont have anything to pay attention too. it would appear that those signs are reasonable. i really just love those type of citizens. so i guess this is where i have to say the "NO SHIT" those type of signs exist in business across america. And i agree in many situations they are exactly the signs needed. To deal with drunks or homeless or punks or kids and so on.
sadly this was NOT THE SITUATION here and there seems to be certain type of person that always wants to see it for what it is not. and part of that is because people who are like that , have a life like that. when nothing effects you then you dont have to worry about shit. but for some odd reason there has been video after video , report after report and witnesses after witnesses that SEE shit for what it is.
and if a coffee shop with a public accommodation license has white folks stating they have been in the same coffee shop and not bought a dam thing, and a witness that saw a white guy who made no purchase coming out of a bathroom, then it is as it appears to REALLY BE. which is a overly sensitive manager who decide that 2 black men waiting is just cause to use a policy rarely used in a place for the public to meet, talk, eat drink or sit.
in correct the owner has to issue the trespass and the cops are witnesses to that request and on behalf of the owner they can issues a public citation on a PRIVATE PROPERTY EXPECTATION. in this case the proper thing to do was to verify if the owner was going to press charges for trespass. this is confirmed by the fact the arrest for trespass would have been a charged out offense if the owner or manager was willing to support that action, it did not. disorderly conduct is what should have been used by the cops in this case because the lawful order would not matter but the fact the officers asked them to leave created a disturbance. now thats thin and a good judge and defense lawyer would have gotten that tossed.
in the end the cops should have stated once the guy said to them, i am here to meet with them, that they WOULD NOT BE INVOLVED. deescalation goes both ways. just like an arrested person can be unarrested pending further investigation. thats what should have happened here.
well what i am suggesting as stated above is that this manager decided to take note of those two black men for her own reason that doesn't fit the model for success of a properly run business when NO OTHER factors to validate her action was present. as i noted some place else. they weren't put on a timer, other customers did not take a ticket and have there number called to determine how long they had been there before the two black men. and clearly there was no ability for this manager to determine who was in the store and how long they had been there before they ordered a drink. so again this need to make the black guys seem or appear to be violating a policy is not based on a foundation that is a standard.
so like most folks OF ALL COLORS wondered, why have these two black men been targeted for removal?
People still go to Starbucks? Why? It's snooty as all hell and the coffee is only so-so. as well as being over priced.
You mean like these people?