Trump Has Religious Bigot Say Prayer To Open U.S. Embassy In Jerusalem
Trump faith adviser who said Jews go to hell to speak at Jerusalem U.S. embassy opening
Opinion Trump Choosing a 'Jews Are Going to Hell' Evangelical to Pray at the Jerusalem Embassy Is Offensive. But It's No Accident
Pastor Robert Jeffress also thinks Islam is evil, Mormons belong to a cult, Catholicism is a product of Satan's genius and 'gay is not OK.' But what's a bit of bigotry and theological anti-Semitism between pro-Israel friends?
Jonathan S. Tobin May 14, 2018 1:12 PM
Trump faith adviser who said Jews go to hell to speak at Jerusalem U.S. embassy opening
If the Trump administration’s intention was to offend Jewish sensibilities with its pick of an evangelical minister to give a prayer at the opening of the new U.S. embassy in Jerusalem, it succeeded.
Pastor Robert Jeffress, who will speak at the event, is on record as stating that Jews are going to hell - together with all other non born-again Christians – or, at least, not to heaven.
If it wanted to offend Muslims, the White House also couldn’t have done better, since Jeffress has also made very derogatory remarks about Islam, which he has reportedly slammed as an "evil," "violent" and "false" religion.
Nor has Jeffress spared Mormons, since he called it a non-Christian "cult," when explaining why he thought his followers should oppose Mitt Romney during the 2008 and 2012 Republican presidential primaries. His condemnation of gays ("gay is not okay") is just as disturbing for the LGBT community.
Mitt Romney Tweet on Robert Jeffress
Robert Jeffress says “you can’t be saved by being a Jew,“ and “Mormonism is a heresy from the pit of hell.” He’s said the same about Islam. Such a religious bigot should not be giving the prayer that opens the United States Embassy in Jerusalem.
— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 14, 2018
Jack Graham tweet on Robert Jeffress
Well... I’m very grateful @robertjeffress boldly stands for Truth and is representing Jesus at the dedication of the Embassy in Jerusalem. https://t.co/wzV3rRnZDg— Jack Graham (@jackngraham) May 14, 2018
That Jeffress’ penchant for religious intolerance hasn’t barred him from becoming a member of President Donald Trump’s Evangelical Advisory Board and becoming part of the recently reconstituted White House Faith Initiative is troubling.
But as with much else with this administration, loyalty to the president - with whom Jeffress says he has prayed - atones for a multitude of sins.
But the presence of Jeffress at the highly symbolic ceremony that will commemorate Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem of Israel’s capital is no accident. It’s also likely to highlight again the split between the Jewish right and the Jewish left.
Many Jews see his presence as an insult, as well as inappropriate.
On Twitter, Rabbi Rick Jacobs, the head of the U.S. Reform movement, said Jeffress’ attacks on Judaism and Islam ought to mean he should be "kept far away" from the embassy ceremony and that "Jerusalem doesn’t need the prayers of a religious bigot."
Rick Jacobs tweet
Given Pastor Jeffress’ repeated defamatory comments about Islam and Judaism, he should be kept far from tomorrow’s US Embassy dedication. Jerusalem doesn’t need the prayer of a religious bigot echoing throughout the holy city. https://t.co/tHatkyPYsz
— Rabbi Rick Jacobs (@URJPresident) May 13, 2018
But no one should be surprised if not everyone will share that opinion.
Though Jeffress may believe Jews won’t be rubbing elbows in the hereafter with those who attend his 13,000-member First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, most pro-Israel activists as well as the few Israelis who pay any attention to the issue aren’t likely to be that upset about it.
Just as Trump cares little about anything but the megachurch pastor’s willingness to support him despite his personal moral failings, groups like AIPAC as well as the Israeli government regard Jeffress’ passionate support for Israel as the only relevant fact about him.
If support for Zionism is baked deep into the political DNA of America, that is not so much a function of AIPAC’s lobbying operation, or the generosity of Jewish donors to political candidates, as it is of religion.
Sympathy for the notion of a Jewish return to the land of Israel and their right to sovereignty there has been a powerful force in American Protestantism dating back to the early days of the republic. The first president to endorse this cause wasn’t Harry Truman or Woodrow Wilson but John Adams. In recent decades, enthusiasm for Israel and disdain for its foes has become a major feature of an evangelical movement that was unashamed to flex its political muscles.
The true engine of the bipartisan consensus in favor of the Jewish state has been ministers like Jeffress and their followers. The transformation of the Republican Party from one in which pro-Israel sentiment was lukewarm a half century ago, to a lockstep pro-Israel (a shift that has been matched by the decline of support for Israel among Democrats), if not pro-Likud party, is largely the result of evangelical enthusiasm.
Jeffress stand on Israel is particularly instructive. In a Fox News interview about being asked to give a prayer at the embassy opening, Jeffress made it clear that as far as he was concerned, Jerusalem had been Israel’s capital for 3,000 years, not 70.
He said he was happy about the move because it contradicted, "the left’s lie that Jews stole the land" from Arabs.
Above all, Jeffress believes, as do most of his fellow Christian conservatives that support for Israel is vital to America’s well being.
For him, that’s not a geopolitical analysis but one determined by the biblical injunction that God will bless those nations that bless Israel. As far as Jeffress is concerned, "God blesses the U.S. because we have chosen to bless Israel."
Fox&Friends tweet on Robert Jeffress, Israel, Iran
On @foxandfriends, Dr. @robertjeffress stated that Israel "is the only nation in the world that has the promise of God's protection," and that "God is going to be victorious." https://t.co/2OE6XHAWGZ pic.twitter.com/HMQzWmOIAa
— Fox News (@FoxNews) May 12, 2018
Should that be enough to render him kosher in Jewish eyes at a time when anti-Semitism and anti-Zionist agitation is on the rise?
Jeffress’ willingness to speak openly about who he thinks is going to Heaven puts a slightly different wrinkle in the long running debate about whether Jews should care about the motives of Christian Zionists. Many Jews think Evangelicals are only supportive of Israel because of the notion that its creation and its ultimate victory over its opponents will bring on the end days and trigger the rapture or the return of Jesus and an expected mass conversion of the Jews.
While a belief in this scenario is by no means universal among evangelicals, most pro-Israel activists respond to such fears by noting the absurdity of Jews who do not believe such theological events are possible being worried about what Christians will do if Jesus reappears.
Surely Jews are unthreatened by anyone’s expectations about the return of the Christian messiah, especially when those who hold such beliefs are so eager to help defend the Jewish people from their enemies in the present. Nor should we care much about who Jeffress thinks is going to Heaven.
Robert Jeffress tweet on evangelical belief
Historic Christianity has taught for 2,000 years that salvation is through faith in Christ alone. The fact that I, along with tens of millions of evangelical Christians around the world, continue to espouse that belief, is neither bigoted nor newsworthy.
— Dr. Robert Jeffress (@robertjeffress) May 14, 2018
But while his eschatological views ought not to concern us, it is not too much to ask someone who puts himself forward as a representative of people of faith in the public square to be civil. The sorts of attacks that Jeffress has made on religions and groups other than his own feed bigotry.
His willingness to say that Christians should take candidates' faith background into consideration when casting their votes is not only prejudiced, but also antithetical to the spirit of religious liberty that most evangelicals believe is the key to the defense of their own rights.
These are certainly not the sorts of things we want to hear from someone who is in a position to advise a president whose own commitment to tolerance is shaky.
All persons of good faith should welcome Jeffress’ prayers for the peace of Jerusalem and the safety of Israel. Nor should we question the sincerity of his pro-Israel beliefs or those of the rest of the Christian conservative community.
Yet his presence at the embassy ceremony is a reminder that there is a price to be paid for uncritical acceptance of pro-Israel figures whose attitude toward faith is inconsistent with religious freedom.
Jeffress’ motives for backing Israel are irrelevant. But it is not too much to ask the administration, the Israeli government or pro-Israel activists to hold Jeffress as accountable for his prejudice as they do people like Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas for their bigotry. Jeffress’ Zionism is praiseworthy, but it can’t give him a pass for attacking other faiths.
Jonathan S. Tobin is editor in chief of JNS (the Jewish News Syndicate) and a contributing writer for National Review.
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If you've never seen Johnny Dangerously, the whole thing is pretty hilarious.
Oh, I've seen it. It is one hilarious movie
I am actually not all that shocked by this. The majority of, (not all, not close to all, a MAJORITY, so spare me the "sweeping generalizations" crap), the right wing typically do not vote for Jews. In our 115th congress, there are 30 Jewish members. 28 are democrats, 2 are republican. This is actually 2 more republican Jewish members than we had in the 114th congress.
Jews typically vote Democrat.
American Jews tend to favor Democrat candidates, with 71% of Jewish voters choosing Democrat candidates and only 25% choosing Republicans since 1968.
During the Charlottsville protests, we saw neo-nazi's chanting, "the Jews will not replace us". These same people openly said they support trump. David Duke was there as well, he also heaped praise on trump as does richard spencer. And trump himself refused for DAYS to condemn the actions of the neo-nazi's, (and when he did, he walked it back the next day saying, "there were good people on both sides"). Chris Cantwell, (who is a self admitted racist), said that the only thing about trump is that he isn't quite racist... ENOUGH. When you have right wing neo-nazi's saying that trump is a racist... Guess what? He is.
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That being said...I will never understand why Israel keeps praising a president that clearly is not, "Jew friendly" and who invited a religious bigot to speak at the embassy opening... My guess is that Bibi The Terrorist will default to whoever will push his own agenda and give him stacks of cash.....on unmarked, black planes, in the middle of the night....
Conservative evangelical Christians far outnumber the left in their support of Israel
many on the left support theArab desire to remove Israel from the face of the earth
My factual post proves you wrong. Do you have any FACTUAL proof to the contrary? No.
"the left support the Arab desire to remove Israel from the face of the Earth." Those words are yours.
My only comment on such a statement is to, "Cut back on the dosage of the lysergic acid diethylamide.
Your “fact” had nothing to do with who supports Israel. Your post was about who US Jewish citizens vote for
many on the left support theArab desire to remove Israel from the face of the earth
That is absolute bull "stuff". Name these supposed lefties!
I have battled many on Newsvine, at the Nation Magazine when it had blogs, and in confrontation with leftists in public
Mr. Frost,
There is an excellent documentary you can watch called "Armageddon Now" It explains this weird relationship with Israel and the evangelicals.
Is that on Netflix or Amazon Prime?
There is an excellent documentary you can watch called "Armageddon Now"
I shall look for it.
Once again Romney displays the dishonesty of a “Temple” Mormon
The same Mitt Romney who’s Mormon faith believes that Baptized Mormons literally have their DNA change when baptized to become Jews of the tribe of Ephraim
“The Mormon people regard them-selves as of Israel, too, if you please, and the term “Israel” as applying to themselves is frequently heard in their congregations. They believe themselves to be of Ephraim, and cousins of the Jews, who are of Judah. To a Mormon those not of their faith are regarded as “Gentiles.” Gentiles in Utah often say, in a bantering way, that everybody in Utah outside of the Mormons is a Gentile, even the Jews! But the Mormons themselves would add “Excepting the Jews,” for, as already pointed out. they regard the Jew in the same light that he regards himself. as of Israel, but of another “branch” of the face.”
The official position of the LDS Church is that those who have accepted Mormonism or are a part of the Latter Day Saint movement are primarily from the House of Joseph. Adherents believe they are members of one of the tribes of Israel, either by blood lineage or by adoption, when the recipient is not a literal descendant of Jacob, also known as Israel. Individual church members are told their tribal affiliation through a patriarchal blessing. The LDS Church teaches that all of the tribes exist within their numbers, though not every tribe in every country. Ephraim and Manasseh are by far the two largest tribes in the LDS Church.
or the blood oath he took in a Mormon temple to have his bowels slit if he reveals the secret oaths he took that included acknowledging that Protestant ministers and Catholic Priests are paid by the devil and worship the whore of Babylon?
And Romney certainly holds dear that no one will ever be in the presence of God without Joseph Smith’s approval
What is more, Mormon leaders have taught that Joseph Smith must give his consent before anyone can enter heaven:
• [There is] "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith" (Joseph Fielding Smith, in Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190).
• "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith" (Brigham Young, in Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289).
• Bruce McConkie states: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation" (Mormon Doctrine, p.670).
• Joseph Fielding Smith said: "If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190).
• Brigham Young stated: "every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289).
• George Q. Cannon: "If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]" (quoted in the Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142, 1988).
The same Mitt Romney who’s Mormon faith believes that Baptized Mormons literally have their DNA change when baptized to become Jews of the tribe of Ephraim
Reminds me of the inanity of transubstantiation.
One can disagree or disapprove in the doctrines of any religion. We all have that right.
Jeffress is in a glass house though, as there is no proof for his doctrinal beliefs either.
I don't think it would be appropriate to send an atheist to represent the US government at the opening of a Christian church in some foreign country, so why did we send someone who says Jews are going to hell to represent the US in a Jewish country?
People who believe in an "end times" future for Jerusalem and Israel have no second thoughts about manipulating world politics to try and make the Armageddon happen.
As these fanatics get closer and closer to the seat of power in Washington, we should all be worried about the possibility of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
There are no Christians on earth when Armeggedon occurs. No Bible believing Christian should believe such nonsense
Just out of curiosity, why is bible prophecy devised many centuries after Jesus, Paul, and all the disciples and apostles died any more credible than Mormonism is?
There are no Christians on earth when Armeggedon occurs
That's right...you all get caught up in the "Rapture"......
....and we get all your stuff!
Because your timeline is incorrect.
all the prophecies either predate Christ (Old Testament Prophets) or are contained in Paul and Peter’s letters which occurred before 65 AD or in the Revelation given to John in 95 AD
There are no non biblical prophecies that any evangelical Christians rely upon
I thought the rapture had a seating capacity of 144K. Aren't there more than 144K hard core teavangelicals in the US? Looks like quite a few aren't going to make the final cut.
Please box up all the religious paraphernalia in the home and place it at the curb before vacating. Keys on the front seats. Thank you.
The 144000 are Jews who believe in Jesus as a result of the preaching of Elijah and Enoch. They then become evangelists to the world during the great tribulation
it has nothing to do with the Rapture of the body of Christ
It's difficult to keep tabs on all those prophecies. What happens to the Jews that don't convert?
They and many others who are either killed by the anti christ or when God pours out seven bowls of wrath and 7 Judgments upon the earth. 2/3s of the earth are killed during this time
Who are the 1/3 that won't be killed?
when God pours out seven bowls of wrath and 7 Judgments upon the earth. 2/3s of the earth are killed during this time
Larry, it sounds like your "god" is plotting to commit mass murder again.
I thought he said he wouldn't do that again.
I thought he said he wouldn't do that again.
He said he wouldn't wipe out humans "with a flood" again, so I guess he left other options to commit genocide again open... Oh, and apparently light wasn't refracted when shining through a raindrop until after the great flood, try to wrap your head around that physics puzzler.
13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life." Genesis 9:13-15
He's already tried rain I guess fire is next
I'm still wondering what a "bowl of wrath" tastes like. Is it better than Froot Loops? Just from the name it sounds like it's one of those cereals which is supposed to be good for you but tastes like cardboard.
I'm still wondering what a "bowl of wrath" tastes like.
like my white chicken chile made with dynamite Hatch chiles
He's already tried rain I guess fire is next
- Ordovician–Silurian extinction events (End Ordovician or O–S): 450–440 Ma at the Ordovician – Silurian transition. Two events occurred that killed off 27% of all families, 57% of all genera and 60% to 70% of all species. Together they are ranked by many scientists as the second largest of the five major extinctions in Earth's history in terms of percentage of genera that became extinct.
- Late Devonian extinction : 375–360 Ma near the Devonian – Carboniferous transition. At the end of the Frasnian Age in the later part(s) of the Devonian Period , a prolonged series of extinctions eliminated about 19% of all families, 50% of all genera and at least 70% of all species. This extinction event lasted perhaps as long as 20 million years, and there is evidence for a series of extinction pulses within this period.
- Permian–Triassic extinction event (End Permian): 252 Ma at the Permian – Triassic transition. Earth's largest extinction killed 57% of all families, 83% of all genera and 90% to 96% of all species (53% of marine families, 84% of marine genera, about 96% of all marine species and an estimated 70% of land species, including insects ). The highly successful marine arthropod, the trilobite , became extinct. The evidence regarding plants is less clear, but new taxa became dominant after the extinction. The "Great Dying" had enormous evolutionary significance: on land, it ended the primacy of mammal-like reptiles . The recovery of vertebrates took 30 million years, but the vacant niches created the opportunity for archosaurs to become ascendant . In the seas, the percentage of animals that were sessile dropped from 67% to 50%. The whole late Permian was a difficult time for at least marine life, even before the "Great Dying".
- Triassic–Jurassic extinction event (End Triassic): 201.3 Ma at the Triassic – Jurassic transition. About 23% of all families, 48% of all genera (20% of marine families and 55% of marine genera) and 70% to 75% of all species became extinct. Most non-dinosaurian archosaurs , most therapsids , and most of the large amphibians were eliminated, leaving dinosaurs with little terrestrial competition. Non-dinosaurian archosaurs continued to dominate aquatic environments, while non-archosaurian diapsids continued to dominate marine environments. The Temnospondyl lineage of large amphibians also survived until the Cretaceous in Australia (e.g., Koolasuchus ).
- Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event (End Cretaceous, K–Pg extinction, or formerly K–T extinction): 66 Ma at the Cretaceous ( Maastrichtian ) – Paleogene ( Danian ) transition interval. The event formerly called the Cretaceous-Tertiary or K–T extinction or K–T boundary is now officially named the Cretaceous–Paleogene (or K–Pg) extinction event. About 17% of all families, 50% of all genera and 75% of all species became extinct. In the seas all the ammonites , plesiosaurs and mosasaurs disappeared and the percentage of sessile animals (those unable to move about) was reduced to about 33%. All non-avian dinosaurs became extinct during that time. The boundary event was severe with a significant amount of variability in the rate of extinction between and among different clades . Mammals and birds , the latter descended from theropod dinosaurs, emerged as dominant large land animals.
For being a supposedly perfect, infallible, all powerful omniscient God he seems to have had a lot of "do overs" throughout history. One could argue volcanic fire, ice, water and meteor extinctions have already been used so far, what could possibly be next? According to some evangelicals it's "AIDS" because their God just can't get enough genocide and murder correcting his non-mistakes.
252 Ma at the Permian–Triassic transition. Earth's largest extinction killed 57% of all families
From that we can see that the great sky fairy doesn't support family values.
God he seems to have had a lot of "do overs" throughout history.
Ok...he's done fire, water, ice, meteors,.....what else is there?
Ok...he's done fire, water, ice, meteors,.....what else is there?
disease... mind control... robots... animals turning against everyone... insect invasion... plants turning against everyone (like in the movie "The Happening") ... hmmmm... that's good for a couple more "do overs" right ?
Ok...he's done fire, water, ice, meteors,.....what else is there?
Half-witted orange clown with his finger on the nuclear button...?
How is this any weirder than any other religion claims?
Once again Romney displays the dishonesty of a “Temple” Mormon
These people with their unsubstantiated religious beliefs. And to think Mormons actually believe they have a handle on truth. 
They are not the 'true' religion. My religion is the only truth.
Join us, or burn in Hell. Their sales pitch could use a little work.
Join us, or burn in Hell. Their sales pitch could use a little work.
It's their "sales pitch fork'...
Jeffress is not a 'religious bigot.' He is one of the new christians modeling his beliefs in the fashion of The ( Pharisaic Money Changers ) who demanded Pilate terminate Jesus.
As far as Trumpism, Jeffress is the perfect choice. This is also more proof that Israel is not a Jewish nation, because if it were, Israel would not have permitted Jeffress to defile its land. This speaks volumes about Netanyahu.
Were Israel and Jerusalem not implicated in the evangelical beliefs about the "end of the world" these 'Christians' wouldn't give two shits about the US embassy being moved to Jerusalem (or staying where it was in Tel Aviv).
The sad thing is Netanyahu knows this.
Could be, or trump is and Bibi is a "lesser demon".
Supposedly the Anti-Christ will bring peace to the Middle East...or was that the crap I read in those Left Behind books?
I think this is the old "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" syndrome.
It rarely works out.
It didn't exactly work out for the Western Allies and the USSR
If religion is involved, that's very true, it never works.
That is indeed what both the Old Testament Prophets and New Testament teaching state
Have a few modern firearms to deal with the old testament gods.
The fundamentalist small c christian evangelical preachers that Trump sent to to Israel represent the US at the opening of the new US Embassy in Jerusalem, Hagee and Jeffress, do not desire peace for the middle east at all but rather they desire a great conflagration, a world war, an apocalypse wherein Israel as a Jewish state and the Dome of the Rock atop the Temple Mount will be utterly destroyed and then removed from that holiest of holy sites so that a new Jewish Temple might be built there fulfilling prophesy thus ushering in the return of Jesus Christ...
I cannot understand how this could ever be or would ever be in the best Interests of Israel or the Israeli People...
The weird thing is that most of this biblical prophecy jazz only dates back to the 19th century.
Not True. Neither Hagee nor Jeffries hold that belief and that is not what we who believe premillennialist, Pretribulation doctrine believe and teach.
It is what fundamentalist evangelicals and messianic Jews believe. Hagee and Jeffres are both fundie evangelicals christians.
The Third Temple Movement is a messianic movement dedicated to the building of the Third Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount/Haram ash-Sharif compound, the renewal of a Jewish priesthood, and the reestablishment of a theocratic Jewish kingdom in Israel (Feldman 2017; Chen 2007; Inbari 2009; Gorenberg 2000). This movement remains a highly contentious and politically provocative movement in the Middle East, often credited with playing a role in sustaining cycles on violence on the ground in Israel/Palestine. For Jews, the Temple Mount is believed to be the site of the First and Second Jewish Temples, a juridical and spiritual center, where ancient Israelites offered animal sacrifices to God. According to Jewish prophecy, a Third Temple will be rebuilt on the Temple Mount when the “Jewish exiles” return to the land of Israel, initiating a new messianic era.
The whole point of moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem is to appease apocalyptic fundies, both Jewish and small c christian.
“At this point, Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is the only concrete thing that his evangelical supporters can point to as part of fulfilling biblical prophecy to bring about the second coming of Christ,” religion historian Neil Young told Newsweek in January.
That reads like an indictment, but it’s safe to say that for those eagerly anticipating the Second Coming, any progress is welcome. And the move on Monday is apparently seen by many evangelicals as precisely such a step.
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"...it’s also worth picking out another part of what Jeffress said to CNN. Jerusalem, he said, is “the touchstone of prophecy.” That prophecy is the biblical prophecy of the return of Jesus Christ and the beginning of the Rapture — the end times.
“What kick-starts the end times into motion is Israel’s political boundaries being reestablished to what God promised the Israelites according to the Bible,” Pastor Nate Pyle told Newsweek in January.
This is not an uncommon view.
The LifeWays poll found that 80 percent of evangelicals believed that the creation of Israel in 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy that would bring about Christ’s return."
"...it’s also worth picking out another part of what Jeffress said to CNN. Jerusalem, he said, is “the touchstone of prophecy.” That prophecy is the biblical prophecy of the return of Jesus Christ and the beginning of the Rapture — the end times.
Actually, all the Jews don't have to be in Israel for the third temple to be built. It's the birth of the pure red heifer that is the sign that the messiah is coming.
You are posting about different aspects of the end times. I have taught and preached on Eschatology for more than 30 years
most Christine’s agree with the Apostles and the Church Fathers on the doctrine of Imminency
Most Evangelicals hold to the Doctrine of Imminence which was also the Doctrine of the Apostles and the early church
Imminence is used to describe the coming of Jesus Christ for His Church, the Rapture experience, and to declare that it is next on the prophetic program of God. Central to this doctrine is that no earthly events must take place on earth prior to the Rapture
The Rapture is signless, and will be unannounced and largely unexpected. It is next on the revealed program of God, and is so presented in the Scripture that every generation may enjoy the hope, challenge and other blessings of His appearing. We are all exhorted to watch but no one can know the day nor the hour when the Bridegroom will come (Matt. 25:13).
No clearly prophesied event must transpire prior to the Rapture, for this might date the time of His coming. If the return of Christ for His Church is imminent, then obviously it will be before the coming period of Tribulation with its clearly predicted signs and judgments. In theological language, the Rapture of the Church must be Pretribulational We do not first look for an invasion of the Holy Land by Russia or some other northern confederation, nor the revelation of Antichrist and his godless ambitions, nor the predicted Battle of Armageddon with its vast devastation. We look next for the coming of Christ from heaven to take His own to the Father's house (John 14:1-3), and the Bible calls this our "blessed hope" (Titus 2:13).
Imminency has been the consistent belief of evangelical Christians down through the centuries. While theological terms such as trinity, theophany imminency inerrancy and premillenial developed gradually over the centuries, it is clear that although they did not use the term, imminency was indeed the expectation of the Apostolic Church.
John F. Walvoord, a prime authority in the field of Bible eschatology, forcefully states and illustrates this truth:
"The central feature of pretribulationism, the doctrine of imminency, is, however, a prominent feature of the doctrine of the early church ... [which] lived in constant expectation of the coming of the Lord for His church."
He then quotes the Didache dated about 100-120 A.D., which contains the exhortation:
"Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh”
That is your beliefs, but they don't trump the original beliefs, which even Jesus believed.
Actually, all the Jews don't have to be in Israel for the third temple to be built.
I did not say that they did. You must have gotten that from my linked and quoted source on Messianic Judaism though I do believe those most adamant and fundamental about those ancient prophesies, in order to maintain their to the letter perfection with the exact words of the texts, would likely be reduced to the No True Scotsman defense as to who is and who is not a real Jew when it comes to who is and who is not subject to and likely to be included in Jewish prophesies. This is much like fundamentalist Christians who must explain how out of the nearly two billion professing Christians on this planet only a hundred sixty thousand (Depending) are reportedly supposed be raised up in their prophesied Rapture leaving the vast majority of all professing Christians behind as they will simply not be "Christian Enough" to pass muster. In other words, "Not True Christians". Similarly, fundamentalist orthodox messianic Jews do not necessarily believe that all who claim Judaism are exactly worthy of wearing that revered title or would qualify for whatever is the Jewish equivalent of end time salvation. Of course, and as you know, Jews are just as likely as Christians to argue about and the finer points of interpretations of texts and to also disagree about pretty much all tenants of our faiths and the details of what it is all supposed to really mean. Tower of Babel Syndrome and all of that...
We are talking about what some Christians believe about Jerusalem's role in the end times prophecy. I don't know what you are talking about, nor am I interested in all that.
As Perrie alludes to, you are bringing up your beliefs that someone developed long after Jesus and everyone who wrote the Bible New Testament were dead and gone. There is nothing that makes your interpretation any more believable than any other doctrine someone developed.
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" Publishers Weekly called The Late Great Planet Earth “old-fashioned Doomsday preaching in a contemporary idiom” and praised Lindsey’s “folksy style.” Historians looking back call it “an apocalyptic reading of Ezekiel in funky ’70s slanguage,” and “a tale of biblical prophecy told in countercultural vernacular.”
Fundamentalists have long been interested in the apocalyptic books of the Bible—Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation—and there is a tradition of interpreting them in light of contemporary events. American Studies scholar Melani McAlister describes most of these interpretations as “academic, inbred books aimed at audiences of the already-converted.”
Lindsey wanted to reach the not yet converted. Although his potential readers might have lacked familiarity with the prophetic scriptures that identified harbingers of the end times, Lindsey presumed that they were fascinated and terrified by the events of their own time.
Lindsey’s apocalyptic writing falls into the category known as premillennial dispensationalism, ideas espoused by John Nelson Darby, a nineteenth-century Englishman who wrote about the division of history into seven great eras or “dispensations” and the imminent return of Christ before the final dispensation, a thousand-year reign of peace on earth.
Premillennial dispensationalists believe that ambiguous scriptures describe events that will happen as the second coming of Christ approaches.
In Lindsey’s version, the harbingers of the end times include the return of Jews to the Holy Land (founding of Israel in 1948); Jews regaining control of Jerusalem’s sacred sites (the 1967 Arab-Israeli War); and the rebuilding of the Temple (not yet). As the end times approach, the Antichrist, disguised as a global peacemaker, comes to power. True Christians are transported to heaven (the rapture). Seven years of tribulation—floods, famine, disease, plagues, war—follow, at the end of which Jesus returns to lead Israel’s army against the rest of the world. Christ’s victory ushers in his thousand-year reign (the final dispensation). Lindsey also wove together contemporary accounts of nuclear proliferation and World War III scenarios with the prophetic scriptures he believed predicted them, convincing lay readers that the Bible offered a framework to give meaning to what was happening in the present.
Evangelical Christians were convinced of the truth claims made by Lindsey in The Late Great Planet Earth and read it in order to reconcile disturbing events in the news with predictions made in prophetic books of the Bible.
The Late Great Planet Earth made it appear that the world was completely under God’s control, and history was unfolding exactly as God intended. Readers were told they had a special role in convincing others of the truth so they could accept Jesus as their savior in time to be rescued from the impending apocalypse.
That is your beliefs, but they don't trump the original beliefs, which even Jesus believed
It's difficult to know for sure what Jesus believed beyond what He specifically said He believed. While Jesus clearly felt at home in the temple (His Father's House) and certainly followed the religious teachings He was considered a heretic by the Caiaphas and the High Council.
Per the Bible Jesus said believed He was fulfillment of Biblical prophecy - something most Jews don't believe. He also believed himself to be the Son of God - something else most Jews don't believe - just as they believe He was not the embodiment of a New Covenant, or that He would/did conquer death. He was/is a Jew - but He was also a fork in the path.......
Again, you are speaking of that which you do not understand
the Church of Rome under the teaching of Augustine abandoned Bible prophecy and the teachings on Eschatology by Jesus, the Apostles, and the Church Fathers of the first two centuries. Adopting the non biblical worldview called Amillinielism. That view led to anti semitism by the Church of Rome because it labeled Jews enemies, hated by God and having no further hope in unfulfilled promises from God
protestant Christianity RETURNED to the historic Biblical teachings, including the fact that Paul clearly taught that the role of the Church was until the fullness of the gentiles when God would once again deal with the unfulfilled promises and prophecies to Israel. Affirmed also in the Book of Revelation
Used to live with a beautiful Jewish princess who went through Mossad training. And I thought that I was a bad-ass martial artist! Oops! It was kind of weird knowing that my girlfriend could kill me in a New York second If she chose to.
Either 'God' issued a lot of different bibles/messages or, humans created 'God' and tailored the bible to fit their own social agenda. Seriously...why would 'God' have so many different messages? She wouldn't. It would be ONE message for all humans, which proves that humans have taken the bible, (which takes ambiguity to the extreme), and used it to form their own social agenda.
Actually the Bahá’í believe that the reason that there are so many messages, is that they were tailored for the people who they were intended for, but essentially the message is the same.
From their website:
Throughout history, God has sent to humanity a series of divine Educators—known as Manifestations of God—whose teachings have provided the basis for the advancement of civilization. These Manifestations have included Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad. Bahá’u’lláh, the latest of these Messengers, explained that the religions of the world come from the same Source and are in essence successive chapters of one religion from God.
I kind of like their POV.
I agree with that. Religion does come from the same sources. And those sources are the ideals of stability and power.
Apologetics = finding an explanation, no matter how silly, to protect a belief against contradictory evidence and reason.
I agree as well. I want to be clear. I have no problems with different faiths, we are all free to believe what we want to believe. I am just tying to point out that there is a degree of hypocrisy here and if religion truly brought peace, (it would if we were all on the same page), it would have a very long time ago. Every religion proclaims that it's the religion of peace and the reality is that....none of them are.
As a Deist, I believe in God, but that's where it ends.
Tig,
Even if one believes that, the Bahá’í are not trying to say they are the final answer. They are just saying that all are equally good. In that sense, they are unique.
in essence successive chapters of one religion from God.
We often hear from various fundamentalists of different stripes that God (By any of His or Her innumerable names} is ever unchanging. That God and Heaven are forevermore static. "For thus it was written and thus it ever shall be forever and forevermore", or words to those effect. Contrarily, the texts almost universally reveal that, including the One God of Abraham, in the great religious texts all seem to be stories of a God, man's and this earth's creator, learning and changing and adjusting and even evolving in relation to what He/She learns for His/Her own creations, mankind, men and women...
I kind of like their POV.
I always have too, probably the only religion that isn't offensive in some respects.
Either 'God' issued a lot of different bibles/messages or, humans created 'God' and tailored the bible to fit their own social agenda. Seriously...why would 'God' have so many different messages? She wouldn't. It would be ONE message for all humans, which proves that humans have taken the bible, (which takes ambiguity to the extreme), and used it to form their own social agenda.
Well of course that rises the question of whether or not god exists--- the discussion of which is this column would be a derail, and one generating more heat than light.
And as Krishna always sez-- "let there be light"! And there was light,,and it was good!.
I think Shakespeare hit the nail with his head when he said that the devil can quote scripture for his own purpose:
I think Shakespeare hit the nail with his head when he said that the devil can quote scripture for his own purpose:
And of course passages in holy books-- the meaning of which seems obvious-- are interpreted totally differently by different people who have different agendas. But its not just true with religion-- it also happens in politics.
For example, when it comes to the right to own guns, most people seem to think the meaning of the Second Amendment is clear. QDuite obvious. But-- does it have (at least) two different meanings? Ask a group of conservatives what it means-- then ask a group of liberals..lol! 
Flippers are efficient for moving through water but they're poorly evolved for manufacturing weapons and ammunition.
Foolish men dream of finding extraterrestrial life on other planets while unknowingly destroying sentient life on earth...
I live with one tiny blind dog who has more empathy and compassion for all his others, except rats, than most men do.
He really cannot help how he feels about rats. He is a Manchester Terrier and can't overcome 1,000 years of breeding.
They call him Thumper, Thumper, faster than lightning. No one you see, is smarter than he...
They call him Thumper, Thumper, faster than lightning.
Considering how often Trump flip flops, "bad N Korea, good N Korea", "bad China, good China", "good DACA, bad DACA", "abortion good, abortion bad", you can just go with the original...
They call him Flipper, Flipper, faster than lightning,
No-one you see, is dumber than he,
And we know Flipper, lives in a world full of wonder,
Flying to Russia, to get under the pee!
Everyone loves the king of the pee,
Ever so kind and humble is he,
Tricks he will do when children appear,
And how they laugh when he's near!
They call him Flipper, Flipper, faster than lightning,
No-one you see, is dumber than he,
And we know Flipper, lives in a world full of wonder,
Flying to Russia, to get under the pee!
For the record: Officially, I have no use for TBN's Pastor Robert Jeffrees. I was having a hard-time processing what I was watching as it is, was "browsing" it, then Jeffries appeared. I gagged and turned off the set.
And, President Donald Trump is nothing - if he is not throwing shade, or massaging controversy. This president will be this nation's undoing if left to his own devices.
Ted Cruz is not a dominionist. That’s a lie that was spread during the last presidential race
Why did Cruz have Dominionist David Barton campaign for him if he isn't a dominionist?
But before he can bring the country back to its Christian roots, Cruz needs to prove that Christian ideals were indeed important to the American founding. That is why he has David Barton on his side.
For several decades Barton has been a GOP activist with a political mission to make the United States a Christian nation again. He runs “Keep the Promise,” a multimillion-dollar Cruz super-PAC. He’s one of Cruz’s most trusted advisers.
Barton is the founder and president of WallBuilders, a Christian ministry based in his hometown of Aledo, Texas. He writes books and hosts radio and television shows designed to convince evangelicals and anyone else who will listen that America was once a Christian nation and needs to be one again.
So a candidate is whatever any of their supporters believes? That’s pretty absurd
Ted Cruz has never been a dominionist
Ted Cruz has never been a dominionist
I don't know if Cruz is a Dominionist but he is a theocrat much like you. The only difference is that due to the office he holds he's in a stronger position to harm people.
So a candidate is whatever any of their supporters believes?
He can try to claim that he is a constitutionalist, but the US is not now, never was and was not created as a country guided by Christian beliefs or principles. We would not have a separation of church and state of that were true. Obviously, Jesus or Christ/X-tian would have been mentioned somewhere in either the Constitution or the Articles of Confederation, which didn't happen. The US was founded on religious freedom for all people, even if only one person believes that way instead of the common conservative belief of religious freedom for the majority.
He is either a religious fraud or a dominionist.
This is my opening to Ted Cruz's dominionism: The whole video explains, but pay particular attention to 8:40 to the end of the video. (You can speed it up, too.)
Ted Cruz does not agree with his father on Dominionism. You are making him guilty of what another person says
My brother in Christ, can you explain this "laying on of hands" @ 44 seconds through 114 seconds in the video on Mr. Ted Cruz by his father, Rafael Cruz and others, at Iowa Renewal Project Pastor's Conference, Marriott Hotel, July 19 - 20, 2013?
Ted has explained it. He loves and honors his father as the Bible commands. But that it doesn’t mean by loving and honoring his father that he agrees with everything his father believes. I personally heard Ted share this during a campaign conference call with supporters
I can understand how you feel after hearing the man out in his own words. This is important in its own right.
As for me, I am reading a lot of arguments for and against his dominion-leaning policies online. I do not trust Ted Cruz for a host of reasons (policies) he put forward in his Liberty University campaign speech, his reactions to President Obama - a constitutional scholar like himself, and his lack of compassion for the sick, widow, and poor of our country (though, you may argue this last).
However, Cruz is a sidebar issue to this article about Pastor Jeffries. Honestly, if I find anything useful one way or the other I will share it at that time. For now, I will drop it.
Nowhere does Hagee pray for Armageddon. That would be absurd since Hagee shares my pre-millennial, pre-tribulation Eschatology
furthermore, Christians are not in the world during the 7 years leading to its climax withe the battle of Armageddon
And finally, it is not Jerusalem that is destroyed in this battle, it is Babylon
“Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.”
Revelation 16:12-21
Why wouldn't Hagee pray for Armageddon? He gets raptured before all the shit falls down and misses it. Then all the people he hates will be tortured for the next 7 years. I bet he gets a woody just thinking about it
Nonsense. Any Christian who truly loves God agrees with God on wanting every soul to turn to God and live
Nonsense. Any Christian who truly loves God agrees with God on wanting every soul to turn to God and live
there seems to be a lot of judgement from humans on who "truly" loves God or is a "true" Christian - i wasn't aware that any human was qualified to make that judgement according to religious beliefs
My real Christian friends leave me alone about that stuff. The not so real Christian "friends" don't even know their own Bibles and they're the ones who bother me. Constantly
Christian "friends" don't even know their own Bibles and they're the ones who bother me. Constantly
My dear Great Aunt Bess who was the prototypical "Church Woman" was assaulted by a bunch of olde ladies in her christian nursing home who tried to forcefully dunk baptize her. She fought them off with her cane but she remained vigilant till the bitter end least they try again if she let down her guard. You see, Bessie was a sprinkled Methodist and so the Baptist and Church or Christ ladies at the olde folks home were deeply concerned for her immortal soul and sure she was hell bound sans a good dunking so they all decided they would give Aunt Bessie a good dunking in their communal therapy tub for her own good. The moral of that story? It never will change. We will all, even Christians, be dealing with that same attitude till the days we die...
A friend of mine recently did a full immersion baptism. She said she had been baptized as a baby but it was only a "sprinkling". I told her a sprinkling is still a baptism.
What is it with some Protestant churches? They don't care if you've been baptized in another church. They insist you have to be baptized in their church to be a member. At least the Catholics accept any baptism.
Most Protestant churches accept any baptism from anther church as long as it was immersion. That is the only biblical baptism. And baptism of babies is non biblical
Baptism is the first act of obedience after we repent and receive Christ as Lord and Savior. We are baptized as Jesus was, immersed in water. We signify are linking ourselves to the death and resurrection of Jesus, symbolically going under water as the death of the old man. Coming our of the water as the new man in Christ. Romans 6
Christians are commanded to judge right and wrong by Jesus. Not by our standards but by His standards
Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
John 7:24
They cannot be a real Christian then. We are commanded by Jesus to call all people to repentance
never mind. It's not worth my sanity to engage with you any longer
I just love how one sect of Christianity decides others are not Christians. Hilarious!
"I just love how one sect of Christianity decides others are not Christians. Hilarious!"
Indeed. There are the true Christians, and those who claim to be true Christians who are anything but, and prove it with their own words and actions. It is these false Christians who claim that the true Christians are not really Christians at all.
The truth is, it is the false Christians that who are so easily seen through and they are so busy claiming to be real Christians they can't see how truly transparent they really are. True comical.
I know, right? It would be downright hilarious if it wasn't so sad
Most teavangelicals think they are the spiritually elite of Christianity. You know, exceptional.
Christians are commanded to judge right and wrong by Jesus. Not by our standards but by His standards
ok - so tell everyone what are His standards so we know what standards you are using to judge others.
Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
John 7:24
tell everyone the standards for this righteous judgment (please be specific).
Most Evangelicals have no such belief because it’s contrary to scripture
“Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.”
Acts 10:34-35
“but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.”
Romans 2:10-11
“My dear brothers and sisters, how can you claim to have faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ if you favor some people over others?”
James 2:1
“Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.”
Philippians 2:3-4
Not enough room. They are contained throughout the Word of God
righteous judgment means behavior and thoughts that are acceptable to God
“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.”
Romans 14:17-18
for Christians it means the constant pursuit of holiness
Christians are to be set apart from the world in the Holiness of God. We are not to live like the unbelieving world. Far too many live worldly lives rather than living as disciples of Christ. Those who claim to follow Jesus as Lord and Savior must choose either Jesus, this world and its ruler Satan.
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
Hebrews 12:14
John 17:14-15 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
Then he spoke to them all. “If anyone wants to follow in my footsteps, he must give up all right to himself, carry his cross every day and keep close behind me. For the man who wants to save his life will lose it, but the man who loses his life for my sake will save it. For what is the use of a man gaining the whole world if he loses or forfeits his own soul? Luke 9:23-25 Phillips NTTranslations
Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy. 1 Peter 1:13-16
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love Ephesians 1:4
Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
Colossians 3:12
Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live, looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, he will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames. But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.
And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight.
2Peter 3:11-14
They cannot be a real Christian then.
The world is lucky that most Christians aren't like you.
You’d prefer that Christians disobey Jesus and live and act like the world.but to obey and serve Jesus as He said results in being hated by the world
John 17:14-15 “I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.”
“Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great isyour reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:11,12
"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." John 15:18,19
You’d prefer that Christians disobey Jesus and live and act like the world.but to obey and serve Jesus as He said results in being hated by the world
I'd prefer that you keep your sharia laws in your own life where they belong, and I'd prefer that you not presume to speak for the vast majority of Christians who don't share your twisted ideology.
Again as I have challenged you repeatedly, cite for me a single “Christian Sharialaw”?
and I have no doubt you don’t want anyone who says they are Christian to actually live in obedience to Jesus as He called us to, or that you call that “twisted ideology”
i guess in your view it’s twisted to we demonstrate God’s love by caring for the poor and needy here and around the world. That we build schools for free education, put in wells for people who have never had fresh water wells, train people in personal hygiene, agriculture, animal husbandry, nutrition. We provide disaster relief like we did after Katrina and other disasters. We feed 20,000 families each week, just in CA. We ship emergency relief worldwide through our partnership with Friend Ships. We are working in the same way with over 100 Native American Reservations and a number of tribal leaders work full time in our ministry
So if that’s “twisted”, I’m happy to be twisted
Again as I have challenged you repeatedly, cite for me a single “Christian Sharialaw”?
Oh for the love of Christ quit playing dumb and muddying the waters when you at least should know better. Sharia courts are just the same as deacons, elders, governing boards or whatever any church or denomination calls its own internal body or system for making and enforcing their own rules and regulations. The Catholics have Cannon Law which governed by Ecclesiastical Courts that often judge members and can excommunicate them for not complying with church edicts. The same is true of the Mormons and the Baptists and the Pastafarians. When a Methodist preacher gets defrocked for performing a gay marriage who do you think decides that? A church court. When the Amish shun a member who decided that? A church court. When a Mormon is denied temple rights for not tithing who decides that? A church court. It is no different with Muslim sects. They all have internal rules (Laws) and internal groups who sanction those not complying. These courts hold no sway with government and are separate from our governmental legal system but every church has them including your own. So, drop all that false grace. It is unseemly for a Christian...
Again as I have challenged you repeatedly, cite for me a single “Christian Sharialaw”?
Apart from the proper role for Christian sharia law which JBB cited, the sharia laws you've advocated are entirely improper.....like Prop h8, DOMA, sodomy laws, etc. Those laws have no rational secular purpose and are blatantly unconstitutional. Yet you admitted that you voted for a Christian sharia law like Prop h8 in order tom use the state to impose your twisted ideology on everyone else. Here's what you said to justify your vile and discriminatory vote for a sharia law:
....just because a tiny minority of the population is engaged in perverse behaviors and has support from others with immoral minds, does not mean that we have to stop opposing the legal recognition of perversion as equal to normal behavior.
What you cited are doctrines of men, not Biblical commandments from Jesus or the Apostles. So I will accept your post as non responsive
thanks for proving yet again that you cannot cite a single Biblical “sharia law”. Sharia ONLY occurs in Islam and no amount of lies from you and others can change that fact
Larry, you're the one who admitted that your bible-based superstitions obligate you to use our secular government to impose your sharia laws on other people. Here's what you said to justify your odious and reprehensible vote for Prop h8:
......just because a tiny minority of the population is engaged in perverse behaviors and has support from others with immoral minds, does not mean that we have to stop opposing the legal recognition of perversion as equal to normal behavior.
.
The only other possible explanation is that you're greedy and want special rights and privileged status, rights which you want denied to the people you hate.
I was watching some bible babbling bible humping nonsense over the weekend - on one of those 'religious' channels. These women were talking about transgenders and their agenda. And how the parents of these kids were allowing them to 'choose their gender'. A lot of ignorance was being spouted by these ignorant bitches. Then they had a 'priest' interview on - about all the garbage of one man and one woman being the definition of marriage because from their love they have children. I thought you had children by having sex. How gay people couldn't show their love - talking about genital contacts and such - and couldn't create children. How this was all the work of the devil. I'm paraphrasing a lot here. These ignorant bitches - were saying this ignorant fuck 'preacher' was talking facts or some such horseshit.
I just watched it for a few minutes to hear how 'the other side' thinks and it's all a bunch of frigging garbage.
This ignorant 'pastor' said we love the person but not the acts or the same old lying hypocritical bullshit that these phonier than thou freaks spout out their asses. It's sickening.
I wonder how long before we find out this 'pastor' or 'preacher' or whatever he is gets caught for screwing little boys or little girls?
One thing about bible-babblers is that they spend an unhealthy amount of time obsessing about genitalia and rigid gender roles. That's probably just as true today as it was in the Bronze age when their superstition was founded, which explains a lot about their profound misogyny and anti-LGBT views.
As a straight married guy I think I'm qualified to say that well-adjusted straight folks don't obsess about other people's sexuality or gender identity. Only these twisted bible-babblers and other people with psychological problems do that.
All of this and not one words about Melanie's kidney surgery. why wan;t Pres. Trump there?
After he shot a round of golf, and banged a porn star... I mean....priorities and all that..
Trump probably hopes she dies so he can get a new model. Women are possessions to scum like Trump.
"Trump probably hopes she dies so he can get a new model. Women are possessions to scum like Trump."
Trump has been married to Melania for 10 years, and she is no longer the young, succulent girl he married. Thus, I am sure that she is not long for a partnership with Trump, and I am sure she is very much aware of it. Young, beautiful women is what he craves, and while still beautiful, Melania is no longer as young as he prefers. He has show no reluctance to abandoning the mothers of his children, so Melania is no different. She may last through his current Presidency as the First Lady, but, she knows that her days as his wife are now numbered. It's just a matter of time when she is kicked to the curb like all the rest of his wives. There is no reason to believe that he will change, it is simply not his interest to do so.
Melania - you're FIRED
And that is likely the way he will send her the news, via Twitter. However, I don't think it will be all that big a surprise to her, since she is the reason he left his second wife and child. So she knows full well how fickle he is and that she is on borrowed time at this point as well.
That would be a really shitty thing for trumpy to do since she stayed by his side during the whole campaign when she didn't want him to run. She puts up with a lot of shit from this man and deserves a lot better.
That would be a really shitty thing for trumpy to do since she stayed by his side during the whole campaign when she didn't want him to run. She puts up with a lot of shit from this man and deserves a lot better.
Very true. But, ignoring his past, and the disloyal and unfaithful kind of man he really is would be truly stupid, and Melania does not seem to me to be that stupid. She has stayed with him and stood by him in spite of his humiliating sexual indiscretions during their marriage for the money. She knows that once he kicks her to the curb she can collect a 'Yuge' payday from him. And will forever be entitled to the prestigious title of Former First Lady.
Whether or not Trump dumps her, History will treat her much more kindly than it ever will Trump.
I really feel bad for her and Barron. He didn't buy into this.
"I really feel bad for her and Barron. He didn't buy into this. "
It is always the children that suffer the most from this kind of ordeal. However, he will not be able to be sheltered from the truth all his life, and one day he will, like his older Brothers and Sisters, see his Father for the scum that he truly is. Whether or not he will turn a blind eye to it like his older Brothers and Sisters for the money, or be man enough to turn away from it, will be interesting to see.
You mean He never heard his "son" Jesus pray?
You mean He never heard his "son" Jesus pray?
You cannot be a true evangelical and be anti Jewish. We are the biggest supporters of the Jews and Israel
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There is no end to the shame Trump will visit upon America.
Watch out America. Whenever he does something this crazy and provocative he's distracting our attention while he quietly does something horrible like taking food from babies or slaughtering whales.
Shame?
for doing the right thing and recognize the capital of one of our greatest allies?
Trump unlike Obama, Clinton, and both Bush presidents is actually keeping a campaign promise to do what’s right about Israel
The seeded article actually has to do with trump sending nutcase evangelical pastors over there to represent the US at the ceremony.
Relative term. Do you think that Jews are going to hell? If you do, then you are not an ally.
Pretty sure that anybody who believes in heaven or hell is not my ally.
Not shame for the recognition, but shame for who he chose to speak.
I love Israel and the Jewish people and have been honored by them as a “righteous gentile”. Many years ago I was offered an officers position with Israel’s IDF. I have many friends in Israel and desire only the best for Israel and the Jewish people
But, we as Christians cannot deny what Jesus said and taught.
He clearly said that no one comes to the Father except through Him.
His message to many Jews has been rejected, but to those who believe he is Yeshua Hamashiach
He is Tsemach Tsedakah, the Branch of Righteousness
He is HaElohim, He is Ehyeh asher Ehyeh, God YHWH who appeared to Abraham, Moses, and Jacob
He is Adon HaKavod, the Lord of Glory
He is HaGo'el, the Redeemer
Jews who reject Him will be judged by the Law
Paul who was a convert from leadership as a Pharisee said this about salvation and the Jews since Christ.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Romans 1:16-17
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written: “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Romans 9:30-33
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Romans 10:1-4
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
Romans 11:25-26,28-32
Live Free Or Die, proselytizing is not allowed on this site.
Let that be the only such comment you post on this seed.
Then you are no friends of the Jews. They are just a necessary evil.
Btw.. please explain this conundrum. Jews believe that every good person go to heaven even at the end of times. It's in the original book. Jesus was a Jew. I doubt he would have ever said that. Given that god doesn't make mistakes, maybe humans interpret what they want to. Personally, I wouldn't want to believe that god is a bigot.
He's not.. he explaining why he believes in a bigoted god.
proselytizing
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Laughable. He rightly chose a pastor who fully supports the continued existence of the Jewish state
Who says I'm not a politician?
He could have appointed a Rabbi... It is a Israel after all.
I agree with those who have said there was no need to have a prayer at this diplomatic ceremony. If there had to be a prayer though it should have been a rabbi.
Forgive me must I simply had to reply.
"The Jews are a necessary evil." Loved it.
But gee Perrie, we're all 'necessary evils' in the eyes of some. Can't think of anything that is universally loved. Chocolate maybe.
I was wondering why he didn't as well. His choice really made no sense at all.
Evangelical Christians are the bulk and basis of conservative support for Israel. The ironic thing is that if not for their bible prophecy slant a lot of these "conservatives" would have no use for Jews.
There was no attempt to proselytize. It was a response of explanation
I have to agree there.
He did. He also sent Rabbi Zalman Wolowik of Chabad NY who gave a benediction
Well at least the Rabbi is praying for peace and not Armageddon.
Wrong. You cannot be a Christian who loves God and not love and support Israel and the Jewish people
It begins with the promise of blessing or cursing for those who don’t love the Jews (Genesis 12:3)
without Israel and the Jews we couldn’t have come to know God
without Israel and the Jews we couldn’t trust in God’s promises. That He is a God of Covenant
So no "Christians" are anti-semitic ? lol. Sorry that doesn't sound "kosher".
Being a member of Sea Shepherd for all these years makes me a bit dangerous. Don't believe in turning the other cheek.
What they really needed was a messianic Jew.
May as well be an Evangelical Christian. They believe the same thing.
I will enter to agree. A question was asked, a defense was given. Sorry, John.Russell. As believers, right, wrong, or indifference on a policy, position, or comment, we can quote scripture. It is our worldview.
So, be TOLERANT!
Note: Livefreeordie, you do ply them on-top of one another, nevertheless. That may be the pastor in you, though! (Smile.)
More explanation is called for on this comment, because God certainly justifiably discriminates. I feel compelled to write on this, though I am not confident this is within the scope of discussion. Maybe, later?
Some folks plainly love judging others through a prism of anger....almost as much as they hate interruptions in their echo chamber.
I - for the life of me - cannot understand Trump's choice here. There will be lots of conjecture, assumptions and suppositions about why, some with an honest question, some with a leftist agenda. The record shows that Jeffress has also spoken out against violence, racism and the fascist behavior of left wing organizations like Antifa, and though the Left preaches "tolerance", if you hold Christian values you are to be minimalized. Any person that reads the Bible and takes the teachings to heart and professes their faith is a "bigot", misquoted, taken out of context, to be mocked and demonized. - regardless of how they live their life, regardless of what they say about their faith.
The irony here is that had Barry Obama not lied - that had he kept HIS promise to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem, his very likely choice of clergy to speak would have been Jeremiah Wright, famous for his racially charged anti-American rants from the lectern. Anybody wonder whether or not John Russell would have posted a similar article denouncing him?
Are you a scientist (on another thread)? Both, maybe?
This has nothing to do with "Barry" Obama or antifa, nothing at all.
Trump sent Jeffress and Hagee there as a reward and signal to his evangelical supporters who are the only thing between him and a 25% approval rating. Evangelical Christians support Israel almost ENTIRELY based on biblical admonitions and prophecies, the major prophecy of which promises Jerusalem that it will be destroyed in apocalyptic violence.
It is absurd that these two men would be asked to go to Jerusalem and "pray" on behalf of the United States of America.
Monster Mash, my advice to you is to quit while you are behind. Your comments are an embarrassment.
I think THAT is what has their asses in a wad. Trump actually did what the rest just paid lip service to.
I have never heard any Christian including Jeffries and Hagee pray for Armeggeddon. I can’t imagine any even think8ng it
Again you continue to lie. No evangelical including Hagee and Heffries believe that Israel will be destroyed in some future battle. Just the opposite
ive taught and preached on Eschatology (last things) for over 30 years and you are completely misstating our view
It is
No one who truly follows Jesus as Lord and Savior. If they do so then they are in rebellion to Him
He chose a pastor that said Adolf Hitler did the Jews a favor.... Spin that.
I am not lying about anything. If you say you don't believe that Jerusalem will be destroyed , according to prophecy, that is your business. Obviously many other "Christians" do.
The posted article touches on many things, raised multiple ideas - and perspective on those "things" are germane to the general conversation - except for folks uncomfortable outside the echo chamber or afraid to broaden the scope.
Either that or this has nothing to do with what the subject of these gentlemen's prayers might be or what official sevice they might be asked to perform on behalf of their nation to open an official extension of their nation.
That’s a lie. Show me with quotes and link from any well known Evangelical Christian minister
If you claim that Israel is one of our closest allies then why would you insult them by inviting Reverand Jefferies?
Most evangelical Christians ignore the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels in favor of the Old Testament or the letters of Paul.
When was the last time that you quoted the gospel of Matthew or Mark? You seem to prefer cherry picking Leviticus or Genesis.
Here is a video of that hateful bigot.
A common misconception!
See, for example:
Obama Has a Stronger Record on Israel Than You Might Have Been Led to Think
While Democrats sometimes get a bad rap, let’s not forget that Republicans have a mixed record on standing with Israel.
(Read it all)
What you are referring to is Jesus prphecying the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD. It is not a prophecy of end times. The commentary also mixes in Jesus foretelling on the great tribulation and of His coming. He was responding to 3 questions about 3 separate events
In Matthew 24:3, the disciples had asked three questions: (1) “Tell us, when shall these things be?”; (2) “What shall be the sign of thy coming?”; and (3) What shall be the sign “of the end of the world?” Matthew’s gospel does not answer the first question, which relates to the destruction of Jerusalem in a.d. 70. This is given more in detail in Luke, while Matthew and Mark answer the second and third questions, which actually refer to Christ’s coming and the end of the age as one and the same event. Matthew’s account of the Olivet discourse records that portion of Christ’s answer that relates to His future kingdom and how it will be brought in, which is one of the major purposes of the gospel.
Obama campaigned like other previous presidential nominees to move the US embassy to Jerusalem. He obviously didn’t keep that promise
The fact is millions of evangelical Christians believe this stuff. I have no idea why you deny that. It is also the reason many evangelicals support Israel, as the survey I posted elsewhere on this seed shows.
The videos you post and linked to conclusively show that Hagee believes in and promotes this destructive Bible prophecy.
I hope Live Free Or Die apologizes for misleading this forum.
That does not negate his offensive and bigoted comments about other religions, people or faiths.
"though the Left preaches "tolerance", if you hold Christian values you are to be minimalized."
Nonsense. Saying "Happy Holidays" isn't minimalizing Christians, and neither is telling them to get their religion out of schools, the government and our justice system.
" Any person that reads the Bible and takes the teachings to heart and professes their faith is a "bigot", misquoted, taken out of context, to be mocked and demonized."
Bigot: noun - a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions
Saying “you can’t be saved by being a Jew,“ and “Mormonism is a heresy from the pit of hell.” is the very definition of bigotry.
"The irony here is that had Barry Obama not lied - that had he kept HIS promise to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem, his very likely choice of clergy to speak would have been Jeremiah Wright"
There is no irony there because that is pure bullshit conjecture. Did Obama ever invite Reverend Wright to represent the US on ANY event in his 8 years? Heck, he invited an evangelical pastor Rick Warren for his inauguration and got heat for that from the left. In fact Obama specifically condemned Reverend Wrights comments as he stated in his "A More Perfect Union" speech, "I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy." so throwing that out here now is just another failed attempt at "whataboutism" that misses its mark by a wide margin.
I really am sick and tired of the feigned Christian victimhood I hear daily on these boards. Christianity in America has a foothold in virtually every facet of American life and when anyone suggests that maybe they should step back from pushing their religious agenda on everyone, from pushing Santa and Easter bunny projects in public schools on children of every faith, erecting 10 commandment monuments at court houses, passing anti-abortion legislation based on their religious views and still having Christian "blue" laws on the books in most States. Just admit it, if your child came home with Islamic holiday art projects, if a Koran monument was going up at your local court house or if your State passed sharia laws preventing alcohol sales based on Islamic laws you would lose your ever-loving minds. Christians currently enjoy a platform of privilege in America that no other faith is allowed, and anyone who challenges that platform of privilege should not be seen as attacking Christianity but merely being a proponent for true religious freedom and equality. Every other faith is just as valid as Christianity and should be treated that way, but when our government uses some evangelical to represent our nation who is known for his hate speech against other faiths we have every right to point it out as another example of the unconstitutional privileged platform Christianity shamelessly demands.
I seldom quote Old Testament unless it is the specific subject
I quote the gospels most often
Except for your recent quote in 1.2.53, I do not remember you quoting from the gospels.
Nowhere does Hagee pray for Armageddon. That would be absurd since Hagee shares my pre-millennial, pre-tribulation Eschatology
furthermore, Christians are not in the world during the 7 years leading to its climax withe the battle of Armageddon
And finally, it is not Jerusalem that is destroyed in this battle, it is Babylon
“Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.”
Revelation 16:12-21
I have consistently been attacked by you and others when I quote Jesus and the Apostles who said that the Law of Moses is obsolete
i quote John and Paul extensively, and I quote Jesus from the other three gospels often likewise. . My preaching and teaching are in the same manner.
Nonsense. See my post 1.2.61
Hagee nowhere prays for Armageddon. The body of Christ will have bee long removed from the world. Also the battle of Armageddon does not lead to the destruction of Jerusalem. It is not destroyed in that battle.
What about George and Ringo?
I understand. (-:
I don't agree that Trump made the right choice, but at least he didn't appoint Reverend (?) Louis Farrakhan to speak.
I don't agree that Trump made the right choice, but at least he didn't appoint Reverend (?) Louis Farrakhan to speak.
Why are Christians required to support the state of Israel when they are biased against non-Jews?
Why aren't Christians required to support non-Jews such as the Lebanese, Egyptians and Palestinians?
"Obama Has a Stronger Record on Israel Than You Might Have Been Led to Think"
At the end of Obama's 'reign' he showed his true colours (not meant to be a pun) when he stabbed Israel in the back at the UN - he no longer wanted nor needed Jewish votes and money.
I just read that the End Times nutcase John Hagee is also speaking at the embassy opening. Here are his thoughts
"And Hagee also emphasized the significance of the Jewish state to God and why Christians need to acknowledge its global importance.
"...I believe at this point in time, Israel is God's stopwatch for everything that happens to every nation, including America, from now until the Rapture of the Church and beyond," he said.
"Christians should care about Israel because the entirety of the Bible beginning at Genesis all the way to the end is God's position paper on the Jewish people," Hagee explained.
"God found a man by the name of Abraham and He made a covenant with him," Hagee continued. "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, recorded in the book of Genesis, that He was going to give them a strip of real estate in the Middle East, and that piece of real estate would be theirs forever."
"Forever means today, tomorrow and forever," he said. "It has nothing to do with what the Palestinians think, what the Russians think, what the UK has the opinion of; it belongs to the Jewish people."
"And Israel is the gateway to God's blessing in the Bible," Hagee continued. "Genesis 12: 'I will bless those who bless you.'"
"World history can be summed up in one sentence. The nations that blessed Israel were blessed of God, and the nations that cursed Israel were cursed of God," he said."
And, when did you ever agree with M. Romney?
The article is not about whether or not I have ever agreed with Mitt Romney.
What would be wrong about agreeing with anyone when they are right?
It's unprecedented forMr. Russell.
Comment removed for context [ph]
I don't think "Liberals" "Democrats" "progressives" even "Republicans" in general don't define anyone as an enemy just because they have an "R" or "D" we define people as right or wrong. When your right your right when your wrong your wrong. I think only the "Conservative's"/"Alt Right" from what I have seen, appear to believe its us against them and your a turn coat if you ever agree with anything the other side says even if you know it to be the better course.
How naïve. far right wingers are fascists and can't be reasoned with.
Naked ladies, on the other hand.................
But are they your "enemy" or just someone you disagree with?
Then clearly you need to spend more time looking.
"Basket of deplorables" ring a bell? How about "They cling to their Bibles and guns..."? Ever watch news videos showing antifa burning down the Berkley campus or when they were caught on film assaulting a military vet as he sat in his wheelchair? BLM marches? Kathy Griffin holding a severed head? Madonna wanting to blow up the WH? Snoopy Poopy Diggety Doggy suggesting he would shoot the POTUS? How about the looney toon that actually DID shoot conservative congressmen practicing for a charity event?
Where the heck have you been the past year and a half? Clearly you haven't been watching real world events.
That someone would post such nonsense as "it's only conservatives" isn't the biggest laugh here - it that there were three others so woefully under-informed that they would actually vote up the nonsense that really takes the cake. In fact - those three prove only serve to demonstrate just how disconnected the thought that "only conservatives that see the world though a political prism" truly is.
Americans have over the last 25 years since the fall of the iron curtain, tried to be friends with Russia. Sadly, under Putin, Russia has used the specter of America as an enemy foil to rebuild the national pride they lost when communism fell. So while we keep trying to be friends, they are working as hard as possible behind the scenes, lying, stealing, back stabbing, undermining, virtually anything but overt opposition and an outright declaration of war on America. And much like our current relationship with Russia, it's not so much that progressives and liberals view the Christian right as an enemy, it's that the Christian right views liberals and progressives as their enemy and thus constantly undermine and sabotage the equality and justice liberals and progressives work so hard for. When secular society says tax paying, law abiding gays have the same rights any other American has, the Christian right grit and grind their teeth in seething hatred of that perceived equality. They reject wholeheartedly the premise that an atheist or lesbian has just as much right to the protections afforded us under the constitution because in their minds being "equal" to such persons is an abomination, they demand their right to discriminate, they demand their right to view others as "filth", as trash they want to discard regardless of secular law.
So while liberals and progressives mostly believe we can co-exist letting the Christian right live the way they want while the rest of us live the way we want, the Christian right in America believes it's only a matter of time before their God will come and prove them right and stomp all their enemies into the ground. They pray for the day when their enemies will be mercilessly murdered by their God. I believe most right wing Christians would have no problem gunning down women and children if their religion told them it was time and they had to be good Christian soldiers cleansing the earth of non-believers. You won't find the same sentiment on the side of liberals and progressives who simply want equality and the ability to live in peace unmolested by religious extremists.
Yup - the only surprise is that you took the time to advertise you could not produce a rebuttal. The smart play would been to walk away......
Sorry I actually have responsibilities in life and could not finish my rebottle in time so i had to save it for later. But thanks for verifying with your comment what my comment was actually pointing out.
Basket of deplorables" ring a bell? How about "They cling to their Bibles and guns..."?
Stating the obvious is somehow in your mind the same as us against them "Enemy" mentality?
Ever watch news videos showing antifa burning down the Berkley campus or when they were caught on film assaulting a military vet as he sat in his wheelchair?
ATIFA has no affiliation with any political system and the videos are only available on far right wing sites which either means it was staged or the vet was a douc bag and needs to take responsibility for his actions instead of crying about the big bad ANTIFA.
BLM marches?
Because Black people standing up for themselves is always a bad thing
Kathy Griffin holding a severed head?
Funny shit
Madonna wanting to blow up the WH?
Think she wanted to blow the WH
Snoopy Poopy Diggety Doggy suggesting he would shoot the POTUS?
He has Gangster Thug mentality
How about the looney toon that actually DID shoot conservative congressmen practicing for a charity event?
Crazy People do Crazy shit
Where the heck have you been the past year and a half?
Reading all the hate and crying from the right on this website.
So now that is out of the way, can you answer the real jist of my post.
The articles and language of the posters on this site, which i am assuming represent the average conservative voter always seem to have an us against them slant, "D" is for devil, the "enemy" must be defeated at all costs, and everyone sucks and is a bitch except anyone with an "R" and then they are cool even if the touch little boys in the bathroom.
My perception is my reality.
True, she shouldn't have said it, but it's true.
'How about "They cling to their Bibles and guns..."?
He left out ignorance. Again, true.
Obviously, Romney is letting the President know how things are going to be should he get elected to the US Senate
I cannot imagine why Jeff would be invited to give the opening prayer....Oh wait, he and his followers are part of the Trump base...
One would think that perhaps a Jewish Rabbi would be the person to open the embassy.
No president of the United States should even speak to Hagee and Jeffress, let alone have them speak on the U.S. behalf at international ceremonies.
These two men are representative of the 'End Times' belief within evangelicalism. They are using Israel to promote their own demented ideas.
So you want a religious test? That seems wrong.
Interesting.... How is trump going to sort out those Muslims in his ban?
I was thinking a Catholic priest, but a rabbi is a much better idea. Much better
Was thinking about a buddhist monk.
That would certainly make heads explode
I don't see the necessity for any religious speaker at a political event.
Israel is a religious country.
Pretty sure there will be a rabbi.
Neither do I.
Ditto.
No. Israel is not a religious nation. Israel is well armed, nuclear tipped and has access to vast stores of wealth.
Your point being?
And you got to love this:
where did you get that?
Israel does have access to great wealth. It is not a poor or weak nation. It enjoys the support of every major Western power. Within the last decade has received ever increasing investment from The East.
As far as being a religious nation, that could be argued. My opinion is my own. The real conundrum remains as to what is the determinant factors which would qualify a nation as being 'a religious nation.'
This could be a good discussion onto itself. However, I suspect the conversations would also collapse upon themselves.
When it comes to the ME, Israel gets the lions share, it's been that way for decades.
Why are we sending all this money to the ME? It certainly hasn't brought peace
Because Bibi is the expert at playing the victim. He whines and cries and the US throws more money at him. We cannot afford to fund Meals On Wheels, and the conservatives consistently vote to defund welfare, but we can thrown billions a year at a country that really doesn't need it? It really makes no sense at all.
they have a siphon hose into the US treasury
Discussing where Israel gets it's funding is a little off topic here
I did not open that door
Wrong, it’s because of a treaty negotiated by Carter in 1979
I disagree. Israeli funding is about to increase. The complete conversation concerning Jerusalem is meaningless if the financial aspect is ignored.
For reasons I can not explain, Donald J. Trump hitched his horse to this wagon. Unless the Trump family are keeping 'political asylum' in Israel as an avenue should the need arise.
I'm wondering what your opinion is based on....????When you visited Israel, did you get to speak to many ordinary citizens? Or did you only have contact with people in your tour group?
they have a siphon hose into the US treasury
TYhere are two types of aid-- economic and military, So/me countries get all or mostly one type or the other-- some get both types. I haven't been following it too closely lately, but IIRC, Israel gets very very little economic aid.
They get a lot of military aid. But the real questions is-- in whose pockets does that money end up? Answer-- most goes to . ..Americans!
Its not usded to purchase small relativelt inexpensive items that any country can easily make themselves-- such as uniforms, boots, small hasndgun, even machine gun, etc. Its all (or almost all for the most advanced and expesnive big ticket items-- IIRC a lot goes to the most advanced military aircraft. And there's a condition attached--almost all of the military aid the receive must go to purchase American made weapons!
So the money they receive is actually credits to buy American weapons. It doesn't end up in the pockets of Israelis, but rather workers in U.S. defense plants--- and Americans (including mysekf, BTW) who are part owners of the company (i.e. stockholders).
If American aid to Israel were to be drastically cut or eliminated, who would lose money? Mostly Americans-- workers in American defense plants, and other Americans such as myself who own some defense stocks in their portfolio or IRA.
Watching Enders Game. Read the book.
The movie didn't do the book justice. In their defence, I don't think any movie could.
We pay Israel to buy weapons so in all actuality they are just getting free military equipment.
Spent a year in Israel in 2013. Stayed mostly around Dimona. The 'very religious' were around of course but most people lived their lives in their own ways.
Jeffress has really evolved over the years. A true Christian.
waste of taxpayer money
Israel gets a LOT of US taxpayer money... And in return? We get to listen to Bibi whine and cry, then defend them when they piss off one of their neighbors. The Israeli people are great, fantastic people, but their leader is a terrorist.
Of course in order to "piss off" their neighbors means that continue to inhale and exhale on a continual basis.
Or yelling and screaming that they need even more nukes, (they have 40 now), while complaining that other countries are trying to develop nukes to protect themselves. Bibi wants everything in the ME HIS way, his entire life is consumed with making sure that he has absolute power in the ME. In that, he is no better than any other leader in the ME regardless of their social, political or religious views. Bibi is little more than just another terrorist leader in the ME.
Maybe you misunderstood the fact that the tunnels under the border fence is being dug from the Palestinian side - or maybe you missed all those missile launches from Iran with "Death to Israel" written on the missiles.
Maybe you missed the launching of Iranian missiles into Israel from Syria a couple days ago - or hordes Palestinians trying to crash the border to punish Israel and the US for the audacity they showed by picking where THEY wanted the embassy.
Or may it just facilitates your BS agenda to misrepresent the facts or tell half the story.
Most of the folks here are aware of the facts. Do you think twisting them helps an anti-Semitic agenda? Or, like Obama, are you a friend and supporter of Islamic terrorism? Barry the Coward did the unthinkable on his last day in office knowing he's never have to answer for it when he sent Hamas 150 million in cash.
It is a source of amazement just how much the Left hates America and our values.
In return? In recent years Israel has done more to aid U.S. security and our fight vs. terror than probably any other ally. And while that aid money goes almost entirely into the pockets of Americans not Israelis (its military aid...that they are required to spend on American made weapons..9so the money goes to U.S. workers and Americans who have been smart enough to invest in U.S. companies who receive the money)....its one of the best investments we can make in U.S. security.
I haven't heard that. but I'm curious. If its actually true, you should have no trouble producing links from several reliable sources (but actually one or two will do
You're right, I was off by a factor of 10...
Actually, Baptists are not evangelicals. They do not belong to the NAE, but are considering it. I denounced their teachings many years ago. I am, also, sure that Israel knew who was going to be in attendance....Can you imagine Israel not knowing? I guess Israel doesn't require anyone else's approval as they are fully aware that most times they stand alone.
Everyone thinks their religion is the truth. Baptists denounce Mormons who denounce Catholics who denounce all Protestants ... And that is just within Christianity. Stepping back and looking at worldwide religious beliefs and the thousands of sects should at least raise the question: Are religions merely the result of human imagination? If so, that certainly explains why religion is fragmented into so many contradictory belief systems. If not, then God is intentionally sending out mixed messages to the point that nobody knows what they are talking about.
True, very true... As I said below, it really makes no sense at all given that they all worship the same 'God'.
You can't even lump all 'baptists' into one group or another, they are as varied and different as shades on a color palette.
That's very true. Southern Baptists are almost the total opposite of the American Baptists.
Okay.
So what is your opinion on my point about the thousands of extant religions? The work of God or the results of human imagination?
Neither. It is a product of free will.
I'm with MonsterMash here - I attend church, believe in God and consider myself a Christian but don't feel compelled to identify myself by the church I attend - a Baptist Church. There are many, many flavors of Baptist churches just as with any other denomination. I appreciate the opportunity to worship with others - and the church I attend works hard in the community to help those in need and those in distress.
It's too easy for folks to get caught up in the details of a particular denomination, to miss the central message by focusing on the window dressing.
Agreed. That logically means (to me) that you make up your own mind about what you think is true and take religious views 'on advisement'. In contrast, some consider the Bible to be God's Word and do not question its teachings. Even if the Bible offers truly horrible moral guidance such as slaughtering infants for vengeance, some will find ways to excuse or rationalize this. Others, possibly you are included, recognize that not only do we not have the original Word of the Bible, we do not even have reliable copies of the early transcriptions. And, even if we did, the language is demonstrably vague - yielding thousands of interpretations. To wit, people can (and do) read quite a bit of dramatically contradictory divine wisdom.
A reasonable assessment IMO. Do you think it is possible that all religions get one thing wrong - is it possible there is no god?
Not exactly. The way I see it is this - the Bible has been written, rewritten, interpreted and abridged. Which version of the Bible is the Word of God? If you believe and trust in the Lord - and I do - you have to trust that He knew this would happen.....and would have accounted for it.
That is why I believe the Word, the Message is not as complicated as some make it out to be.
That is logical reasoning even though the end result requires one to shrug one's shoulders and note 'The Lord works in mysterious ways' or equivalent. That works for some, but certainly you can imagine how that is entirely unsatisfying for others. It is, of course, the very essence of faith.
If one presumes that a loving God exists and is perfect, omniscient and omnipotent one can reason through what we can observe in life and often end up with the above ending. For example, why must innocent little children suffer and die from juvenile cancer? All sorts of questions like that are unanswerable (except as a mystery of God) if one presumes a loving God exists and is perfect, omniscient and omnipotent.
that leads me to the question of - why would he allow that to happen ? if God wanted to communicate his message to humans, then why invoke a method that would get the message interpreted a hundred (or so) ways instead of clearly communicating the message in the first place ? It seems like a situation where you want to tell your family - "please pick up milk, 2 different kinds of hot peppers, 3 boxes of cereal, 1/2 dozen large eggs at the grocery store, but stop by and get my dry cleaning first right after taking the dog to the vet" - but instead of speaking it you decide to do sign language to one family member, write it in Japanese to another family member (who doesn't know Japanese so would have to hire someone else to interpret it), hire a skywriter to communicate to another family member (and hope they see the entire message in time), tell your neighbor to tell their Mother to tell their cousin to tell their best friend to tell their co-worker who will then tell another family member your message, and finally just writing it down in cursive short-hand in Latin all in cryptograph (but not sharing the ciphers with anyone) so anyone else who needs to know will have to decipher that. Why not just directly communicate it ?
That is one messed up game of telephone....
Just like a grapevine
That was so funny!
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