If I'm A Racist, Then You Are A Moron

  
By:  citizen-kane-473667  •  5 months ago  •  250 comments

If I'm A Racist, Then You Are A Moron
If you still support Trump, then you are a Racist

It has literally been YEARS since I published anything, and to tell the truth, I really got away from blogging after the collapse of Newsvine. It had a lot to do with several things like time to write, difficulty in adapting to the new site, and quite honestly, the vitriol I saw for anyone who espoused the ideas that I agree with--be they Leftist or Rightist.  Now, however, I find myself drawn from my self-imposed retirement by the latest hate-mongering coming from not only the Commoners like myself, but from the Media and the supposedly Leaders of this country. Let's be honest here, I DON'T PARTICULARLY LIKE TRUMP AS A PERSON, but I sure as HELL love his goals of securing our borders, growing our economy,  cutting taxes, renegotiating trade deals to our benefit, stopping the extremist Islamic threat, and ending our bankrolling of NATO when other countries won't pony up their fair shares. This is the platform he ran on, and this is what I support.

That being said....

I find him to be a bit crude, shrewd, and lewd as a person basing this strictly on what I know of him from what I see as far as his daily interactions with the media and social websites. Does this mean he is actually like this in person? I don't know simply because I don't know him personally. I've never met the guy so there is no way for me to know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me and to be honest, it wouldn't offend me either. I have a thick skin, unlike too many people these days who think that they are somehow special because they aren't what the majority consider to be normal . Guess what? I'm not normal either apparently. Why? Because I am a Racist because I support Trump's goals! Yes, you read that correctly! If you want a strong economy, lower taxes, to know who is entering the country, and an end to American workers losing their jobs to Third World sweatshops-- YOU'RE A RACIST ! Just like me!!!! You see, when all of these things were promised by both Parties, but never delivered on, along came this person who said he would do them and that person got elected. Now that person is trying to fulfill those promise both Parties have made in the past. Nevermind that these policies will benefit the members of both parties as they have been promised by their previous and current politicians, because this guy is acting rude, crude, and socially unacceptable at times, these policies now mean YOU are a Racist if you believe that these things are important enough that you couldn't care less who it is that gets them done--as long as it gets done! Personally, I couldn't care less if he had a wooden peg-leg, an eyepatch, and a parrot cussing up a bluestreak on his shoulder as he dripped from gonorrhea he caught from a $2 whore in Times Square. I wouldn't care if it was Khalid Abdul Muhammad or David Duke getting it done; AS LONG AS IT GETS DONE!

The goals are what I find to be important, not the person. I'm not planning to date, wed, or become BFF with any of these people on Capitol Hill. The general consensus is that Congress, and pretty much every Politician, is as crooked as the day is long. Going by their popularity, lawyers are trusted more than Politicians! Somewhere along the way, lining their pockets became more important to them than lining ours . So if the morons in office, the media, and in the blogosphere  think that labeling me or  anyone a Racist for standing firm on the issues I/we find important will suddenly makes us change our minds, well they can all GO FUCK THEMSELVES ! I don't vote based on how people comport themselves, I voted on who is going to make it easier to pay my bills and not have to worry as much about my safety.

Oh, and BTW-- Gun Control means being able to hit your target under a stressful situation !


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Buzz of the Orient
1  Buzz of the Orient    5 months ago

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Heartland American
1.1  Heartland American  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    5 months ago

Mega dittos! jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    5 months ago

Voted up! Hopefully you can break through where others have failed. Many people read NT without commenting and logical, well written articles like this go a long way!

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    5 months ago

Logical and well written?  jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
WallyW
1.2.2  WallyW  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.1    5 months ago

Please explain why you don't think so.

 
 
 
WallyW
1.3  WallyW  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    5 months ago

Well spoken truth!

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JohnRussell
2  JohnRussell    5 months ago

[delete.

 
 
 
MUVA
2.1  MUVA  replied to  JohnRussell @2    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
2.2  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  JohnRussell @2    5 months ago
Removed for context

You are correct, I'm not a moron; but those who mistake my support of his policies for support of Trump as a person, ARE morons! Is that clear now?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.2.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @2.2    5 months ago
[delete]

 

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
2.2.2  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.1    5 months ago
removed for context

Which makes you????

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.2.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @2.2.2    5 months ago
(Deleted)  Which makes you????

Since you don't support me, I have no idea .  Probably not a racist. 

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
2.2.4  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.3    5 months ago
[deleted]
 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.2.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @2.2.4    5 months ago

[delete]

 

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
2.2.6  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.5    5 months ago
[deleted]
 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
2.2.7  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @2.2.6    5 months ago
No Value [charger 383]
Hey, I pay a lot for my internet...there has to be SOME value for the time I waste on it!
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TᵢG
2.3  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2    5 months ago
Trump is a racist. If you support Trump anyway, knowing that, then you are a .....

No he is not a racist simply because he does not vehemently oppose Trump.   Stop personally attacking people who support Trump (or who do not disapprove of Trump appropriately per you standards).

You know that politics is multi-dimensional and one must vote for individuals with whom one does not completely agree.   That is how it works.

If you are going to imply someone is racist then base it upon direct racist comments (or acts) not because you presume a Trump supporter approves of everything about the guy.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.3.1  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.3    5 months ago

[delete.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.2  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.1    5 months ago
Removed for context

Already did.   Did you see the 'OR' in my statement?   Here it is with color coding:

TiG @2.3 Stop personally attacking people who support Trump (or who do not disapprove of Trump appropriately per you standards).

If someone supports a racist, AFTER learning that the person they support is a racist, they have assumed responsibility for that support. 

Yes, I agree with that above; they must assume responsibility for their support.   But that does not mean that they are racist.

I am really starting to wonder about you Tig. 

Let's say that you voted for Bill Clinton.   Clinton was / is a womanizer.   If you support a womanizer does that make you a womanizer?    You were partly responsible for putting a womanizer in office and thus must take responsibility for your vote.   But the vote / support does not make you a womanizer.

See?   Logic.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.3.3  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.2    5 months ago
Let's say that you voted for Bill Clinton.   Clinton was / is a womanizer.   If you support a womanizer does that make you a womanizer? 

I never voted for Bill Clinton after his womanizing was verified. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.3.4  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.2    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.5  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.3    5 months ago
I never voted for Bill Clinton after his womanizing was verified. 

It was a friggin' example.   I even stated it as a hypothetical.   

I do understand why you dodged it.   You would have had a good rebuttal if your logic had been solid.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.6  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.4    5 months ago

Your methods do far more harm than good.   It is a real shame that you cannot see this.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.3.7  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.6    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
loki12
2.3.8  loki12  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.5    5 months ago

If you are married to a racist then you must be a racist. So if you voted for Hillary you must be a racist, is this the kind of fucked up logic we are promoting?

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.9  TᵢG  replied to  loki12 @2.3.8    5 months ago

I suppose so.  Emotional 'logic' is usually a mess.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.3.10  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.9    5 months ago

You are enabling Trumpism Tig.  [deleted]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.3.11  JohnRussell  replied to  loki12 @2.3.8    5 months ago
So if you voted for Hillary you must be a racist,

That is your "logic" ? lol. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.12  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.7    5 months ago

I think that an individual who calmly lays out the problems with Trump will be far more credible than one who is on a daily rant about Trump on everything from large to tiny issues and (especially) when said ranter attacks not only Trump supporters but those who do not support Trump but fail to be sufficiently extreme and emotional about it.

 
 
 
loki12
2.3.13  loki12  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.11    5 months ago

Thank you John, you couldn’t be more transparent.

 
 
 
loki12
2.3.14  loki12  replied to  JohnRussell @2.3.11    5 months ago

Hillary has to be a racist John, she’s married to one.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.3.15  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  TᵢG @2.3    5 months ago

Thank you TiG.  I have been on the receiving end of John's* demonizing accusations for a long time because the only thing about Trump that I am supportive of is his support of Israel, and the fact that when Trump is JUSTLY and LEGALLY and CORRECTLY defended by Dershowitz I respect Dershowitz's opinion. Because I'm not an American and can CORRECTLY say Trump is not my President I really don't give a damn about anything about him although I take note of the many things he is IMO properly criticized for and strongly join in with such criticisms when it comes to his Trade policies with China and NAFTA that cost ME (and Americans) extra money from my rather meagre pension. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.16  TᵢG  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.3.15    5 months ago

Further, the method seems to not be achieving the desired effect.   Instead of changing your mind, here you are.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.3.17  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.16    5 months ago

Nobody is going to chase me away from NT - I've been here since it was created.  But if that is not what you mean, I have at times learned from logical argument civilly presented, not from emotional immature attacks, things that HAVE made me change my mind and, unlike some here who would rather run and hide, I also am adult enough to admit it when that happens. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
2.3.18  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.16    5 months ago

As a man that excels in math and statistics and one that has experienced similar and watched it happen to dozens of others I'd conclude the consistent variable to be the negative factor.

 
 
 
Ender
2.3.19  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.6    5 months ago
Your methods do far more harm than good.   It is a real shame that you cannot see this.

Imo, what is odd, I hear on the news and people say, don't engage in the rhetoric. Don't stoop to their level. Be above the hatred and incivility.

I have to ask...what has been received for it? What have we gained?

When a bully attacks is the response to live and let live? To act as it didn't happen?

When one lets someone walk all over them, sometimes it will not stop until one turns it back on them.

All that is happening now, again my opinion, is people letting trump get away with what he does are normalizing it. 

I get what you are saying yet I don't see it doing any more harm than the people at a trump rally yelling send her back...

It is time people did stand up instead of being a victim. Though it is something I am afraid the Democrats don't have a spine to do.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
2.3.20  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Ender @2.3.19    5 months ago

Most of us aren't obsessed with Trump and the economy is great.

Want a different president? Sell us on how your going to improve a good economy not destroy it by pandering to a small group of moonbat pie holes.

And polling has indicated a population tired of the childish race acquisitions.

In other words grow up and talk policy that isn't crazy.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.21  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @2.3.19    5 months ago
I get what you are saying yet I don't see it doing any more harm than the people at a trump rally yelling send her back...

Actually my biggest complaint is attacking those who do NOT support Trump because they are not sufficiently enraged.   That, tactically speaking, is counterproductive.  

 
 
 
Ender
2.3.22  Ender  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @2.3.20    5 months ago

Funny what you will dismiss and overlook yet believe about the other side.

 
 
 
Ender
2.3.23  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.21    5 months ago

My point was...trump having his people yell send her back hasn't hurt him.

I seriously doubt John being upset about people not being upset about trump, is going to have that much of an impact.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.24  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @2.3.23    5 months ago
I seriously doubt John being upset about people not being upset about trump, is going to have that much of an impact.

John, the individual, will have zero impact.

However John's tactic when applied by many people will have an effect (to some degree).   The effect, IMO, is to dissuade people from the anti-Trump extremist perspective and, as a result, make it easier for Trump to be reelected.   Counterproductive.

 
 
 
Ender
2.3.25  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.24    5 months ago

We all know a lot people here are diehards one way or the other. They will never change who they are voting for. The demographic to me would be the Independents, people on the fence.

I ask myself, what would persuade me more. Someone telling me I am a racist for supporting him or him being a racist.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.26  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @2.3.25    5 months ago
The demographic to me would be the Independents, people on the fence.

I think you mean the 'moderates'.   Independents are critical thinkers who do not simply accept partisan positions.   Moderates, in contrast, tend to think that the truth lies in the middle.

In other words, one can be an independent and be an extremist (left or right) a moderate or anything in-between.   The key is that independents do not simply accept what they are told, they think for themselves — we seek credible facts and reason accordingly.

Someone telling me I am a racist for supporting him or him being a racist.

Well we all have our own way of thinking.   Someone calling me a racist (for whatever reason) simply tells me that the individual is clueless and causes me to downplay anything else s/he has to offer.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
2.3.27  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Ender @2.3.25    5 months ago

After looking at minority unemployment during the Obama administration I'm starting to think Obama imposed racist regulations on the economy.

I'm glad the racist got rid of them. Are you happy about the historic minority unemployment or is that racist?

Like I said, talk economic policy. How are Democrats going to improve this economy.

Very few care about politically motivated race narratives except for a small group of liberals.

Show me the money!

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.28  TᵢG  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @2.3.27    5 months ago
Show me the money!

That is always a dominant factor in presidential politics.   Election results are highly influenced by the perceived state of the economy.

 
 
 
Ender
2.3.29  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.26    5 months ago

You are correct about the definitions but you know what I meant.

About your last sentence, why would someone 'on the fence' take more offence at someone saying , if you support him, you are supporting this. That is all I get out of it. And nine times out of ten it is true. That is what they all say. I support what he says and what he stands for.

It would not make me dismiss the racist comments that have been said.

I happen to agree with John. Here we are talking about how what (John or more) said would be perceived. It is letting the right wing control the narrative and say...see how they are?

Giving it a second thought is exactly what they want and people are playing into it.

 
 
 
Ender
2.3.30  Ender  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @2.3.27    5 months ago

You have got to be kidding me. Do you actually think that once trump was elected, all the sudden minority employment raised? Like it was static until 2017?

Give me a break.

 
 
 
TᵢG
2.3.31  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @2.3.29    5 months ago
About your last sentence, why would someone 'on the fence' take more offence at someone saying , if you support him, you are supporting this.

Because there are plenty of reasons for why people support Trump and I suspect (strongly) that most of them are not because they think he is racist.   So telling people they are racists if they support Trump is a great way to get people to dismiss the accuser's ability to reason.   (And you know I am stating this in the nicest possible way:  the abbreviation consists of two words.)

 
 
 
Ender
2.3.32  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.31    5 months ago

Plenty of reasons?  Hahaha

If I used your logic, everyone would dismiss trump's ability to reason.

(I saw nothing abbreviated in that comment)

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.33  Bob Nelson  replied to  TᵢG @2.3    5 months ago

Trump has now publicly gone full-on racist. No more shilly-shallying. Dark skins are not acceptable in MAGA-land...

Saying "Trump is blatantly racist" is unacceptable? Seriously?

And if "Trump is racist" is ok... then his faithful - those who will never see ill, no matter what - are necessarily racists, before or after the fact. Why should we not say so?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.34  Bob Nelson  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.31    5 months ago
... there are plenty of reasons for why people support Trump and I suspect (strongly) that most of them are not because they think he is racist.

There may be "plenty of reasons", but almost all flow through the same funnel: racism. Or xenophobia or anti-Semitism or any of their kin.

Yes, they have worries about the economy. They understand this as they have been taught by Fox News: "those brown people coming to take all the jobs".

Yes, they have worries about security. They understand this as they have been taught by Fox News: "all those marauding Black people".

Yes, they have worries about immigration...

Yes, they have worries about... whatever.

And of it is the fault of "those people".

It seems probable that Trump will win another term. That all nine Justices will be loyalists.

America died in the 2014 midterms. Trump is ensuring that the nation will not be mourned by the rest of the world.

 
 
 
Kathleen
2.3.35  Kathleen  replied to  Ender @2.3.22    5 months ago

You can do that, I have.  It’s the ( If you don’t fully think like me) kind of approach.

All or nothing, would be the attitude expected with some here.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
2.3.36  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.3.33    5 months ago

The white liberal pointing fingers and accusing political foes of racism has lost it's luster.

Overplayed and people are tired of it. Find a new hobby.

 
 
 
Ronin2
2.3.37  Ronin2  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.3.34    5 months ago
America died in the 2014 midterms. Trump is ensuring that the nation will not be mourned by the rest of the world.

Which is the reason "those people" to use your own words are coming to feast on the corpse right? People always flee to oppressive dictatorships, with no freedom, poor economies, and no hope of improving their lives./S

As for the rest of the world mourning; that will last only until the next major natural disaster in a foreign country, or NATO needing the US to do the heavy lifting in another military engagement.

That is all the left has, screaming racism at the top of their lungs and hoping the rest of us will respond.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
2.3.38  igknorantzrulz  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.31    5 months ago
 So telling people they are racists if they support Trump is a great way to get people to dismiss the accuser's ability to reason.   (And you know I am stating this in the nicest possible way:  the abbreviation consists of two words.)

I've used my own way of attempting to enlighten Trumpp supporters, as i do not understand their blind loyalty, to one, who must consistently resort to blatant LIES!

Here is a previous argument of mine, and just my opinion, as that is all, we all have.

non- opposition to Trump is support for Trump.
Speaking of absurd. Out of curiosity is this bizarre attempt to disallow indifference universal or just Trump related? 

When you see an incompetence of the tremendous gargantuan proportions that Trump has displayed, when you see a serial liar setting the Truth meter on fire, an adoration who can adore and hold himself no higher, tweet out policy confused with collusion to conspire against all he dowst desire to end and expire, because he can't hide his guilt torturing his inside, as he feigns over the little mind fuck who placed him where he sits, throws the kitchen sink at all walls that Mexico will build and pay for, while paying off our multi trillion China debt, just for good measure, do you ever not see that one who has played so many with his lies that stretch further than an elastic band can be elongated without snapping back and eyeballing an eye socket currently conducive with the 'best and the brightest' he said he would surround himself with, well, until they called him a 'fucken idiot', resigned in disgrace for abusing their offices they were most likely the least likely qualified to oversee, and were closer to the antithesis of a truly qualified appointtee with an errant moral compass arrow, shot into an ethical barrel of fish food, starving for thought, as

Trumps' incessant withchunt tweets, hoax, fake news assertions lobbed at one, that both agreed was a good choice to investigate alleged allegations, that has had hundreds of charges brought, concluded some convictions sought, multiple indictments, and an unforeseen amount of yet to be divulged further findings, being professionally handled by an adult, that any innocent Pol would welcome as to clear their name if that were a true claim, has by many, already convicted himself of obstruction, but because those that prefer Trumps Lies over and over, instead of what's real, and cannot admit they were taken, our Country has lost its moral high ground and has begun to concede its world leadership status, and unfortunately, rightfully so.

How can NATO and or any of our Allies not be concerned about his always lying, while insulting our most adamant supporters, he praises tyrants, he has been unable to say a negative word about Putin, while all the while attempting to reduce, and or drag feet, in even implementing the sanctions he was forced to bring about, after completely insulting intelligence, and our intelligence agencies by publically, side by side, asserting Putin's denial was all he needed to know Putin wasn't involved, in 'rigging' the election Trump swore was rigged.

yea, why should those who fail to see this behavior as nothing wrong, need to oppose

such a role model, that all of our children should be coerced to emulate, going on 10,000 lies, whatever could be wrong with accepting this, as opposed to calling it out for what it is ?

Think on that Jack.

Americans have not a duty to hold our highest elected official, to standards we ourselves could never accept from our own family members ?

I'd dismember them, but you are failing in your duty as an American Citizen, and that is just my humble opinion, 

that i, at this point in this beyond comedic joke, will not relinquish.

So many fought and died, lost life and limb, for an unstable inferior insecure little man,

to desecrate their sacrifices, is just plain UN AMERICAN  again, just my opine

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.39  Bob Nelson  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @2.3.36    5 months ago
Overplayed and people are tired of it. Find a new hobby.

Dismissive of racism, are you?

Why does that not surprise me?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.40  Bob Nelson  replied to  Ronin2 @2.3.37    5 months ago
Which is the reason "those people" to use your own words are coming to feast on the corpse right?

Does your post actually mean anything?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.3.41  JohnRussell  replied to  igknorantzrulz @2.3.38    5 months ago

 igknorantzrulz , you have to apply more logic. 

you are only appealing to emotion. 

logic can explain trump's 10,000 lies !jrSmiley_24_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.3.42  Tessylo  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.3.40    5 months ago

Not usually.  

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
2.3.43  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.3.39    5 months ago

What's wrong Bob, don't have the ability to present an economic idea that would improve the current economy? All I ever hear are fantastical ideas that would destroy a great economy. But but Paul Krugman says.

Hiding behind the guilty white nazi hunter is a deflection.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.44  Bob Nelson  replied to  loki12 @2.3.8    5 months ago
If you are married to a racist then you must be a racist.

That is stupid.

Why did you make it up?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.45  Bob Nelson  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @2.3.43    5 months ago
Hiding behind the guilty white nazi hunter is a deflection.

Are you saying that you do not consider racism to be a topic of importance in America today?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.46  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tessylo @2.3.42    5 months ago

jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Ozzwald
2.3.47  Ozzwald  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.31    5 months ago
So telling people they are racists if they support Trump is a great way to get people to dismiss the accuser's ability to reason.

Scarily, I partially agree.  People can support Trump without being racist.  HOWEVER , people who deny that Trump is a racist, despite the mountains of evidence , must be racist themselves to think his history is normal.

There are also supporters who can admit that Trump is a racist, but state that they support him anyway, based on other things.  Now they may think the issue of racism is not as important as other things, however they are the ones that I cannot claim are also racist.  While I do not claim these supporters are racists, I do look at them as racism enablers.  Allowing it to continue without calling it out, could even encourage racism.  (i.e. you don't have to be a part of the actual crime to be an accomplice)

 
 
 
loki12
2.3.48  loki12  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.3.44    5 months ago

I’m not surprised that the comparison escapes you, we have idiots who think if you voted for trump you must be a racist, but think you can be married to a racist for 40+ years and not be a racist.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.3.49  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Ender @2.3.32    5 months ago

What ability to reason?

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
2.3.50  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.3.45    5 months ago

It's important Bob but it's not a political platform.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.51  Bob Nelson  replied to  loki12 @2.3.48    5 months ago

Jeez, man... You really need to clean up your writing. It's all over the place:

I’m not surprised that the comparison escapes you

This kind of insult is supposed to be forbidden by the CoC, but hey! Mod behavior is kinda like Brownian Movement... More importantly, your post doesn't contain any "comparisons". So, yeah... I kinda didn't see what you didn't include...

we have idiots who think if you voted for trump you must be a racist, but think you can be married to a racist for 40+ years and not be a racist.

Really? You found someone who says "you can be married to a racist for 40+ years and not be a racist"?? Could you post a link?   ...   ... Or did you just make it up?

Jeez, loki! Are you makin' shit up again?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.52  Bob Nelson  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @2.3.50    5 months ago

There was a guy named Nelson Mandela who maybe would have disagreed...

Or Martin Luther King.

For them, racism was not just a political platform... it was their lives' cause.

Were they wrong?

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.3.53  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.3.52    5 months ago

Nelson Mandela championed for Voter ID and Martin Luther King didn't run for an office in Washingtong DC.

"six of one, half a dozen of the other"

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.54  Bob Nelson  replied to  It Is ME @2.3.53    5 months ago

The irrelevance of your posts always astounds me...   jrSmiley_30_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.3.55  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.3.54    5 months ago

Just following the lead of comment 2.3.52. jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.3.56  Bob Nelson  replied to  It Is ME @2.3.55    5 months ago

  jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.3.57  It Is ME  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.3.56    5 months ago

I know ….. right ?

 
 
 
loki12
2.3.58  loki12  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.3.51    5 months ago

Sorry if I misunderstood you, are you saying that if you are married to a racist for 40+ years, then you have to be a racist too?

 
 
 
mocowgirl
2.3.59  mocowgirl  replied to  TᵢG @2.3.6    5 months ago
Your methods do far more harm than good.   It is a real shame that you cannot see this.

Complaining is bad for our brains whether we're doing it or on the receiving end.  Fearmongering also has adverse health effects.

To live a healthier lifestyle and promote brain health, it would probably be beneficial to spend as much time as possible with problem solvers with positive attitudes to build societal consensus. 

https://www.southernliving.com/news/complaining-changes-your-brain

It’s estimated that the average person complains between 15 and 30 times a day. While it might feel good in the moment,   complaining   can do a lot more harm than you might think. And we’re not just talking about the people who have to listen to your incessant grumbling. It turns out that your   brain   can also suffer as a result of your repeated negativity.

Research from Stanford University   has shown that complaining, or even being complained to, for 30 minutes or more can physically damage the brain. Seriously. Complaining has been found to shrink the hippocampus, the area of the brain critical to problem solving and intelligent thought, by physically peeling away neurons. And trust us when we say that your hippocampus isn’t something you want to mess with.

Continued complaining also rewires the brain, making it much easier to repeat that behavior in the future. A   Medium   post   by Mission.org explains this phenomenon perfectly: “The more you complain about things like flakey friends or being asked to push up a project’s deadline, the more neurons in your brain stitch themselves together to easily facilitate this kind of information. Before you know it, complaining becomes so easy for your brain to grasp, you start doing it without even consciously registering the behavior.”

Basically, your brain makes sure that complaining begets more complaining, sabotaging itself in the process. So, the next time you find yourself on the verge of a grumble-fest, try to shift your focus to something you’re grateful for—your brain and your friends will thank you
 
 
 
JohnRussell
3  JohnRussell    5 months ago

I'm a Nazi just because I support Herr Hitler's goal to make Germany a strong economy?  I am not a Nazi. 

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
3.1  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  JohnRussell @3    5 months ago
I am not a Nazi.

No more than supporting a strong economy would make you a Republican and a Trump supporter!

Or do you support a weak economy just so you can be a Democrat because apparently, in your world, there is no line crossing. You're either for a strong economy and a Racist, or you must be a Democrat and favor a weak economy.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @3.1    5 months ago

LOl.   You said you support Trump. Therefore you support both a strong economy and a racist. 

I don't support Trump, therefore I can support a strong economy without supporting a racist. 

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
3.1.2  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.1    5 months ago
You said you support Trump.

Show me anywhere I've stated that above.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @3.1.2    5 months ago

Thats the whole point of your article. 

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
3.1.4  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.3    5 months ago

In what universe?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @3.1.4    5 months ago

So, since you dont support him, you are not going to vote for him then. 

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
3.1.6  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.5    5 months ago

What are my options?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.7  JohnRussell  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @3.1.6    5 months ago

The same options everyone else has. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
3.1.8  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.7    5 months ago

John means we all need to vote for whomever tumbles out of the exploding insane clown car of Democratic candidates running ever further left. It doesn't matter how much we disagree with their political views. Otherwise we are all racists.

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
3.1.9  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.7    5 months ago
The same options everyone else has. 

And THAT is supposed to comfort me??? I've seen the Democratic field and to be honest, I'm not impressed. I'm still waiting to see what Third Party candidates get a good footing and who among the Republicans will challenge for the contender status. Got my fingers crossed that somehow we will get someone who has polish and panache but also has our (my) best interests at heart.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
4  Paula Bartholomew    5 months ago

Isn't the title of a seed on the home page supposed to match the title of the actual seed?

 
 
 
loki12
5  loki12    5 months ago

It’s amazing how transparent the people who are stupid enough to be long term addicts, they demand that you think and be like them so they don’t have to face the reality of what miserable excuses they are.  

There behavior is the same as when they were abusing. They exhibit the same self centered behavioral, nobody gives a fuck what some complete dumbass on the internet thinks. And if you do, you are more of a narcissist fuck then President Trump will ever be.

 
 
 
pat wilson
5.1  pat wilson  replied to  loki12 @5    5 months ago

You seem to know a lot about it.

 
 
 
loki12
5.1.1  loki12  replied to  pat wilson @5.1    5 months ago

Pretty much every family has been touched by a worthless POs who is so fucking self centered that they abuse drugs.

Do you have a point?

 
 
 
JBB
6  JBB    5 months ago

The point is not that most of us still do retain some vestiges of our most primordial impulses of distrust and fear of those who are racially or sexually or culturally different than ourselves. The point is that evolved humans should by now be self aware enough to recognize and resist the bestest of our primitive impulses to hate, to steal, to rape and to kill. Trump is a man dictated by his basest impulses, who wears this on his shoulder with vain glorious pride. Trump is just way too unselfaware to ever examine himself critically and so lacking in empathy as to never have his personal reality even cross his vulgar little mind...

 
 
 
Ender
7  Ender    5 months ago

I have to ask...his goals?

Lower taxes? What does that help? One guess as to what gets cut out of the budget first.

The economy? It has been growing since 2010. Acting like no other president would want the economy to grow is a misnomer if not an all out falsehood.

Negotiating trade deals? Nothing has been accomplished. Hell the new NAFTA deal he wants is almost the same.

Stopping extremist Islamic threat? Is there one in this country? Last I heard, right wing nutjobs have created more terroristic activity.

Other countries won't pay their fair share of NATO? Under Obama their share was to gradually increase. I am sure there are some that would love just to pull out under any excuse.

My main point is all the things you list as his goals are generic. Who wouldn't say they are for that. I think it is time some stop listening to propaganda, because that is all trump spews.

Next point is yes...I will call out people that will not or refuse to call out disgusting behavior and just let it slide...just because they might get something they want or were promised.

 
 
 
Ender
7.1  Ender  replied to  Ender @7    5 months ago

Yet I keep dancing on my own.

 
 
 
cjcold
7.2  cjcold  replied to  Ender @7    5 months ago

Don't forget that Trump is singlehandedly gutting the EPA and all environmental regulations in order to pander to the fossil fuel and mining industries (not to mention to spite President Obama's environmental accomplishments). The fool doesn't even believe in the scientific/observable reality of anthropogenic global warming and the resultant climate change.

Under Trump's EPA, rivers will burn again and the air will sicken and kill you.

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
7.2.1  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  cjcold @7.2    5 months ago
Under Trump's EPA, rivers will burn again and the air will sicken and kill you.

I'm still not convinced that the human race as a whole is the immediate cause of climate change. Sure, I've seen the Hockey Stick and the fallout that caused from massaging the data. I've also seen the same scientist who claim that it is because of our carbon footprint that the Earth is warming at an "alarming" rate while ice sheets increase on one pole while melting on another. I've also seen the historical timelines that show that climate change occurs naturally and I acknowledge that we as a race and our technology does indeed contribute to it, in the range of about 2% while Nature does the majority of the heavy lifting on producing CO2. I've seen first hand L.A.'s yellow air and I know instinctively that can't be healthy. I agree we need to stop polluting our waterways and our air, but what I don't agree with is the methods being proposed to do so by taxation and trading. There is a much easier solution but it is something ALL humans must agree to, and believe it or not, it actually comes from a local ordinance where I live--for every tree of a certain size you cut down for development purposes, one must be planted. I would also add that from this point forward, ALL buildings must either be built underground, or when that is not possible because of natural impediments, then the roofs of those structures must be designed to bear a viable ecosystem of plants no less in stature than those removed for its construction. Fuck Cap and Trade...let's go with Cap and Grow! While we are at it, I suggest that any business that uses water from a waterway and discharges it to the same must return that water in the same condition it was removed. Same temperature and with no more contaminants than were present at its removal.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.2.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @7.2.1    5 months ago
I'm still not convinced that the human race as a whole is the immediate cause of climate change.

I completely agree.

Do we contribute to the impending change?  Of course.  Never before have there been seven billion of us on this piece of space flotsam we call planet Earth.

But as you indicated, it has happened before and will happen after we're nothing but dust on the surface of this planet.  It's cyclical and there is NOTHING we can do that will stop it.  Regardless of how smart and important we think we are, we're as insignificant to the scheme of things as a gnat is to a herd of elephants.  

There is a much easier solution but it is something ALL humans must agree to, and believe it or not, it actually comes from a local ordinance where I live--for every tree of a certain size you cut down for development purposes, one must be planted.

Actually, "trees" are also a part of the problem.  While they do 'consume' CO2, and release oxygen, they also emit water vapors which are a part of the warming of the atmosphere plus as I recently learned, they emit methane, a serious 'greenhouse' gas.

So, we're helping and hindering no matter which way we turn.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
7.3  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Ender @7    5 months ago

i belIeve this is the argument T.i.g was wanting peoples opposed to Trump, to make, as opposed to emotional attacks.

Just my opine, and perhaps T.i.G could correct if im off base ?

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
7.4  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  Ender @7    5 months ago
I will call out people that will not or refuse to call out disgusting behavior and just let it slide...just because they might get something they want or were promised.

You should, but you should also call out the Drama Queens who will claim Racism is the root cause when in actuality, it is for other reasons entirely.  As many have stated, the Race Card, in particular accusing those who don't share a similar sentiment as the accuser, has been so over-played that it has undermined the true and real examples of disgusting racism. Et tu Brute'???

 
 
 
JBB
7.4.1  JBB  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @7.4    5 months ago

Here is another classic quote, "Me thinketh thou protesteth too much"...

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
7.4.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  JBB @7.4.1    5 months ago

Close, but it's "The lady doth protest, too much, methinks"... This line is spoken by Queen Gertrude as she watches what she deems outrageous overacting of a character resembling herself, the Queen in the play within a play created by Prince Hamlet to expose his uncle's guilt in the murder of his father, the King of Denmark.

 
 
 
Heartland American
8  Heartland American    5 months ago

Send them back!  

 
 
 
Ender
8.1  Ender  replied to  Heartland American @8    5 months ago

Where can we send you?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
8.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Heartland American @8    5 months ago

As three were born here, just where is "back"?

 
 
 
lady in black
8.3  lady in black  replied to  Heartland American @8    5 months ago

Nope, they were born here.  Deal with it.

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
8.4  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  Heartland American @8    5 months ago
Send them back!

I agree, but that is just the Native American in me, lol!

 
 
 
Tacos!
9  Tacos!    5 months ago

Well done. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I don't like Trump particularly but he didn't sneak up on us. He is well known to most adults in this country. It's not as if he just appeared for the first time on the public scene 4 years ago or even 15 years ago. We have all known Trump for decades. Hell, people have been joking about him (The Simpsons, South Park, etc.) becoming president for a long time.

I have always found him to be pretty ridiculous. He slaps his name on something and that alone is supposed to make it great. Everyone laughs at this kind of thing. I'm not remotely surprised that the guy we have known for decades might be an insensitive pig. Although I confess even with all that background, I was blown away at what sounded like a 7th grade insult contest in the 2016 primary debates.

But he has been talking about the issues on his priority list for many years. It's really no surprise to hear a businessman talk about the economy the way he does. Is he in it for himself? Of course he is! That's what makes so many of us believe that he's not faking when he says he wants to improve our economy. 

So is he a dick? Yeah, it sure seems like it on a lot of days. But he also seems like the most motivated president to actually get something done that we have had in a long while. He may suck at it but at least he isn't lying about wanting to do it.

On Election Day, if the Democrats have somebody better lined up, I'll happily vote for that person. But I don't vote based on good Twitter manners. I vote based on whether or not I think a candidate actually has a better shot to get good things done. On Election Day 2016, I didn't have a clue what Hillary Clinton really stood for or what she would really try to do. It wasn't a hard choice.

On Election Day 2020, if I think my only alternative to Trump is some pandering virtue signaler who wants to open up the borders and make it his or her mission to put every business owner in the stocks so we can all throw vegetables at them, then I'll be voting again for the guy who makes leftists clutch at their pearls.

 
 
 
Ender
9.1  Ender  replied to  Tacos! @9    5 months ago

Funny the justifications people come up with. Is he a piece of shit? Why yes he is, but he wants a good economy. Does he say mean things? Why yes he does but he wants us all to be better off.

Of course as a business man he is going to give tax laws favorable to business.

This is the thinking that drives me nuts. Oh yes he is for us, the country, the economy...Propaganda. Sad so many fall for it. Hell we even have evangelicals calling him a gift from god. Why? Because he told you so? Do people really think he cares about them? Comical.

If people cannot see the damage he has done...it is too late.

 
 
 
Tessylo
9.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Ender @9.1    5 months ago

I saw this phrase from the bible on a church marquee on my way in this morning:  "I will show you my faith by what I do".

The only faith that turd has is in himself.  He doesn't give a shit about anyone.  

 
 
 
MUVA
9.1.2  MUVA  replied to  Tessylo @9.1.1    5 months ago

[Removed

 
 
 
MUVA
9.1.3  MUVA  replied to  Ender @9.1    5 months ago

[Removed

 
 
 
Tessylo
9.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  MUVA @9.1.2    5 months ago

[Removed

 
 
 
MUVA
9.1.5  MUVA  replied to  Tessylo @9.1.4    5 months ago

[Removed

 
 
 
Tessylo
9.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  MUVA @9.1.5    5 months ago

[Removed

 
 
 
MUVA
9.1.7  MUVA  replied to  Tessylo @9.1.6    5 months ago

[Removed

 
 
 
Tessylo
9.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  MUVA @9.1.7    5 months ago

[Removed

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
9.1.9  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Tessylo @9.1.8    5 months ago

This exchange is over, continue and it will result in vacation time.

Sincerely.

the people's fish

 
 
 
loki12
9.1.10  loki12  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @9.1.9    5 months ago

I could use a week on the beach.

 
 
 
WallyW
9.1.11  WallyW  replied to  Ender @9.1    5 months ago

But you can't even describe this alleged "damage".

 
 
 
Tacos!
9.1.12  Tacos!  replied to  Ender @9.1    5 months ago
If people cannot see the damage he has done...it is too late

I think if people cannot identify and explain the damage he has done, they might not be assessing him rationally or in fairness. Expecting the rest of us to acknowledge it just because it's allegedly "obvious" is not reasonable. "Trump is mean" is not a compelling argument.

I want to remind readers of my comment that any support I have for Trump, such as it is, does not exist in a vacuum, devoid of context. All elections are a choice between this person and some other person. Like I said, give me someone better and I will vote for that person. But don't expect me to vote for anyone else just because you tell me Trump is making the sky fall.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
9.1.13  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tacos! @9.1.12    5 months ago
I think if people cannot identify and explain the damage he has done, they might not be assessing him rationally

I think if people have not been overwhelmed by the torrent of damage he has done... they certainly are not assessing him rationally

 
 
 
Tacos!
9.1.14  Tacos!  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.1.13    5 months ago
I think if people have not been overwhelmed by the torrent of damage he has done

Then it should be easy to identify it. And yet . . . 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
9.1.15  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tacos! @9.1.14    5 months ago
Then it should be easy to identify it. And yet . . .

No, because we don't see the same world.

Since well before his inauguration, Trump has floooded us with lies. He and his cabinet secretaries have shredded our environmental protection, within the country and around the world. He and his cabinet secretaries hace shredded our traditional alliances, while favorising traditional enemies. He has created crises with China and North Korea. And s-o-o-o-o much more...

But! His supporters see all those events as successes.

I see a disaster. They see a hero.

 
 
 
bugsy
9.1.16  bugsy  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.1.13    5 months ago
been overwhelmed by the torrent of damage he has done

What damage is that? Be specific...

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
9.1.17  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Tacos! @9.1.14    5 months ago
Then it should be easy to identify it. And yet . . . 

you don't respond when he gives you examples...

Y ?

 
 
 
Tessylo
9.1.18  Tessylo  replied to  bugsy @9.1.16    5 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Tacos!
9.1.19  Tacos!  replied to  igknorantzrulz @9.1.17    5 months ago
Y ?

I was out living life. Stop obsessing on internet. It's not healthy.

 
 
 
Tacos!
9.1.20  Tacos!  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.1.15    5 months ago
I see a disaster.

No, I think you see some policies you disagree with. That's fine. You don't have to like everything he does. But the idea that we should all be overwhelmed by the damage he has done is just over-the-top rhetoric. 

Many politicians lie - a lot. Our environment does not seem significantly worse than it was before he was elected. We still trade vigorously everywhere we did before. China and North Korea were adversaries long before he took office. He is just taking a different approach to dealing with them. He hasn't created a crisis. The crises were there already.

They see a hero

I don't see a hero. I just see a guy trying to deal issues that need dealing with.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
9.1.21  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Tacos! @9.1.19    5 months ago
I was out living life. Stop obsessing on internet. It's not healthy.

do U think i'm on here MORE than U... ?

 
 
 
Tacos!
9.1.23  Tacos!  replied to  igknorantzrulz @9.1.21    5 months ago
do U think i'm on here MORE than U... ?

I'm not the one questioning why the other hasn't responded to something. We're talking about a matter of a few hours and you think you have some grounds for demanding to know why I haven't responded. You might hover over NT all day long, but I don't.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
9.1.24  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Tacos! @9.1.23    5 months ago
you think you have some grounds for demanding to know why I haven't responded. You might hover over NT all day long, but I don't.

DEMAND, really Tacos...

and yet

"you don't respond when he gives U examples, Y ?

is a Fckn DEMAND ? to U

.

I've about had it with FCKN being NICE around HERE

This site means VERY LITTLE to NOTHING to me.

I only come on here to vent what i can't in person, and exercise the Demons in my head ( They have great Cardio )

After reading so many excusing this POS LYING MUTHA FCK A WHOLE for any and everything, i find it a tad concerning.

ALL should, but no, U N So many ACCEPT this LYING POS, and excuse him daily.

WHAT A JOKE

He is desecrating what so many fought for, lost life and limb for, as he was Putin in Place by Russia, lied and paid off people to get elected, and is just a plain old POS attempting to Divide our United States, so don't falsely claim i'm demanding something I'm Knot, and or "hovering" around hear, cause F Not, I'll WRITE LOUDER

The 'Right' , have been taken, and it's down right concerning to ones who can see more than their narrow fckn vision.

IF U

have a comment to make to me ,

maybe make it accurate, or DON'T address me

,

it really isn't that difficult, even for those who support, imho, a POS potUS   

 
 
 
Raven Wing
9.1.25  Raven Wing  replied to  igknorantzrulz @9.1.24    5 months ago

Iggy......calm down. You are only being played. You are reacting exactly the way the [ Deleted ] want.

Don't play into their game. You are much bigger and better than that. You know who you are dealing with, and so do the rest of us, so take the higher ground. 'K? (smile) jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
9.1.26  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tacos! @9.1.20    5 months ago
I see a disaster.
No, I think you see some policies you disagree with.

I see a disaster.

I have often said that America died in the 2014 midterms, which foreshadowed 2016. Perhaps a vigorous reaction in 2016 could have saved the country, but it did not happen, and nothing that has occurred since has changed the flow of history. The United States of America is a zombie, just as dead as the Soviet Union, but shambling on by pure inertia.

I do not know what the future will be, but seen from now, it looks like a plutocratic kleptocracy.

I hope my grandchildren learn Mandarin...

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
9.1.27  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Raven Wing @9.1.25    5 months ago

Sorry Deer,

but you seem to forget who i might be,and show my "Hand" to .

do you think "Tacos" is going to goat me into peril...  ?    As i think \,/

on occasion, just a tad more than a

Few Good Men

around here, that apparently, don't know Jack, 

but,

i due

appreciate your concern, and find it 

admirable. 

 
 
 
luther28
12  luther28    5 months ago

While I will agree that a supporter of Mr. Trump may not be a racist, but like yourself only interested in the end result.

I do not agree with the ends justifying the means mentality espoused, that has not worked well when implemented in the past.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
13  Freedom Warrior    5 months ago

Anybody wanna bet that there are some Democrats that would not support a person who never cheated on his wife, did not grab pussy, always told the truth, never harmed a person of color and so on?

 
 
 
Tacos!
13.1  Tacos!  replied to  Freedom Warrior @13    5 months ago

Absolutely. This is the other side of the "Trump's crassness is killing America" meme. They have been offered Republicans who were men of good character - Reagan, both Bushes, Dole, McCain, Romney - and they treated every last one of them like they were Satan himself. The only exception is they finally decided to throw McCain some love because his last act as a living human was to make an enemy of Donald Trump. Before that, he was a scumbag.

 
 
 
Kathleen
14  Kathleen    5 months ago

The word “racism” has been abused so much lately.  People are being accused of a very serious offense.  You can support an idea, and not support other things about a person.  Also, that person may or may not really be racist.  The problem is that people are too sensitive and they are taking something out of context or just “out to get” no matter what.

 
 
 
WallyW
14.1  WallyW  replied to  Kathleen @14    5 months ago

The word “racism” has been abused so much lately.

The term has been so over used and abused by the democrats for so long that it has become meaningless.

Mindless ranting by attention seeking extremist left wing radicals is pointless and counterproductive.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
14.1.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  WallyW @14.1    5 months ago

The race hunters gave up. They are back seeding Trump cock articles.

Moving on to things they enjoy more.

 
 
 
Tessylo
14.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @14.1.1    5 months ago

They why did you respond, the usual, deflection?

 
 
 
Kathleen
14.1.3  Kathleen  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @14.1.1    5 months ago

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
14.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen @14.1.3    5 months ago

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Kathleen
14.1.5  Kathleen  replied to  Tessylo @14.1.4    5 months ago

Did you take the article off?

I don’t see it anymore.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
14.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kathleen @14    5 months ago
The word “racism” has been abused so much lately.

"CNN and MSNBC have collectively called President Trump or his  tweets about four freshmen progressive members of Congress  "racist" over 1,000 times since Sunday morning."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cnn-msnbc-combine-to-call-trump-or-his-tweets-racist-more-than-1-000-times-since-sunday

 
 
 
It Is ME
16  It Is ME    5 months ago

Apparently....rude, crude, and socially unacceptable is what it takes to get this country moving in a direction where U.S. Citizens actually prosper.

All the "Nice, Nice" by the rest has gotten us nothing but "HEART ACHE" over the decades !

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @16    5 months ago

The only ones who are prospering the most are the already ultra wealthy in Rump's America.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
16.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @16.1    5 months ago
The only ones who are prospering the most are the already ultra wealthy in Rump's America.

If you aren't personally successful, why do you blame Trump for it?

 
 
 
It Is ME
16.1.2  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @16.1    5 months ago
The only ones who are prospering the most are the already ultra wealthy in Rump's America. 

I'm Still routing that YOU can actually "DO IT" though ! I know YOU can. jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
XDm9mm
16.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @16.1    5 months ago
The only ones who are prospering the most are the already ultra wealthy in Rump's America.

Wow...   such a brilliant stroke of genius.

Everyone is prospering.  Of course those at the very upper reaches of personal wealth will gain more as they already have more.  However, that doe not negate the FACT that those on the lower rungs of the prosperity ladder are also prospering.   

I'll submit it's better to have a piece of the pie, even if it's nothing but a tiny sliver than nothing.   As any salesperson with more than two brain cells will tell people, 1% of something is much better than 0% of a billion dollar deal.

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.3    5 months ago

Every time I see your nonsense I think of a song by Johnny Rivers.  Catchy tune.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.5  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @16.1.2    5 months ago

That's rooting.

I'm doing fine.  The turd 'president' has no effect on my life whatsoever.  

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
16.1.6  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.1    5 months ago

Uber rich liberal politicians peddle a utopian myth that government can improve the lives of the middle class and poor. It's not their fault, rich have wronged them.

The irony is the rich progressive has no plans of being the subject of such government, they got theirs. Socialism isn't for the bourgeois socialist, it's for the unsuspecting commoner.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
16.1.7  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.5    5 months ago
The turd 'president' has no effect on my life whatsoever.  

Then why do you continually display such vitriolic hatred towards someone that has "no effect on my life whatsoever"? 

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.7    5 months ago

Really catchy tune.  Check it out.  

 
 
 
XDm9mm
16.1.9  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.8    5 months ago
Really catchy tune.  Check it out.  

Really?  What might that be Tessylo?

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.10  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.9    5 months ago

You know what tune it is.  You know, the one by Johnny Rivers.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
16.1.11  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.5    5 months ago
I'm doing fine.  The turd 'president' has no effect on my life whatsoever.  

I beg to differ ! jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
XDm9mm
16.1.12  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.10    5 months ago
You know what tune it is.  You know, the one by Johnny Rivers.  

No I don't Tessy.   Please tell the world what the song is.

I'd like to see you get your deserving vacation.

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.13  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.12    5 months ago

jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.14  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.12    5 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
16.1.15  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.14    5 months ago

Now that's funny.

 
 
 
Texan1211
16.1.16  Texan1211  replied to  It Is ME @16.1.11    5 months ago
I beg to differ !

Pretty damn funny that so much of their day is taken up by someone who had absolutely no effect on them!

It would be like a basketball fan complaining about what the Cowboys are doing in the offseason!

Completely nonsensical!

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.17  Tessylo  replied to  Sean Treacy @16.1.15    5 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.18  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @16.1.11    5 months ago
What is it that you beg to differ?
 
 
 
Texan1211
16.1.19  Texan1211  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.7    5 months ago

Maybe that Rivers song she is referring to is "Poor Side of Town" in relationship to Trump's economy not working for her.

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
XDm9mm
16.1.20  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.14    5 months ago
When you go whining to the moderators?

Who's whining?   I simply notified PH exactly what you sent me "privately", even after I politely at one point had asked you to cease.  Then I simply took the gloves off and responded in the sewer talk you initiated.   Do you really want to have that fight in public?   I have nothing to hide.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.21  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.20    5 months ago

[Deleted]

I have nothing to hide either 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
16.1.22  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.21    5 months ago
I live in Howard County, one of the most prosperous counties in the nation

Everyone needs some house cleaners.  Do a good job.

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.23  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.22    5 months ago

Nope.  Although it's not a top secret, classified, hush hush job like some claim to have had

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
XDm9mm
16.1.24  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.23    5 months ago
Although it's not a top secret, classified, hush hush job like some claim to have had

I never claimed that as you well know.  I simply indicated that I worked as a staff officer for the CIA for about 1 1/2 years before I quit and went contractor.

With that position, I had a TS/SCI clearance.  However, the vast majority of work I did was OCONUS and locations were classified.

What about that is so difficult for you to understand?  Hell, I even provided you the link to peruse the types of jobs available at the CIA.  

Oh, I wouldn't brag about not being brought to heel by Perrie, she might take offense at that and feel a little abused for her generosity being taken for granted.

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
16.1.26  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @16.1.6    5 months ago
The irony is the rich progressive has no plans of being the subject of such government, they got theirs.

And the minute that Socialism or Communism kick in, they take their money and run to another part of the world where they can continue to enjoy their wealth while donning the mantle of Social Justice Warrior to stoke their egos with the sycophant adulation it brings them.

When is the last time you saw one of these millionaire stars give away ALL their wealth to the poor and needy BEFORE they died (if then)?

 
 
 
MUVA
16.1.27  MUVA  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.24    5 months ago

Some people have such crappy lives they can't believe everyone doesn't live like that.

 
 
 
MUVA
16.1.28  MUVA  replied to  Tessylo @16.1    5 months ago

I would like to know what you think ultra wealthy is?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
16.1.29  XDm9mm  replied to  MUVA @16.1.27    5 months ago
Some people have such crappy lives they can't believe everyone doesn't live like that.

She tried to impress with being from Howard County Md.

Maybe I should have told her that before moving to Texas I lived in Loudoun County VA.  Howard Co. MD was on the poor side of the tracks.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
16.1.30  XDm9mm  replied to  MUVA @16.1.28    5 months ago
I would like to know what you think ultra wealthy is?

Someone with indoor plumbing?

 
 
 
MUVA
16.1.31  MUVA  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.29    5 months ago

Loudoun we played them in soccer all the time best facilities in the country.I'm in VA beach Princess Anne Hills at the oceanfront but live on the lynnhaven river. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.33  Tessylo  replied to  MUVA @16.1.31    5 months ago

Yeah, so what?

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.34  Tessylo  replied to  MUVA @16.1.28    5 months ago

Was I talking to you?

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.35  Tessylo  replied to  MUVA @16.1.27    5 months ago

Who said they have a crappy life?  I'm comfortable.   I never had everything handed to me like some

 
 
 
MUVA
16.1.36  MUVA  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.35    5 months ago

I bet you have a great life .I work 70 to 80 hours a week in the heat, cold and in boat bilges and engine rooms nobody has handed me anything.

 
 
 
MUVA
16.1.37  MUVA  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.33    5 months ago

I was replying to XDm9mm he lived in this area at one time.

 
 
 
JBB
16.1.38  JBB  replied to  MUVA @16.1.36    5 months ago

If you really work 75 hours a week, sleep about 50 and then spend an average of 5 hours a day on family time, personal hygiene, household chores and feeding yourself that would only leave about 1 hour a day to waste here. That somehow does not add up. Does it?

 
 
 
MUVA
16.1.39  MUVA  replied to  JBB @16.1.38    5 months ago

I don't spend more than a hour here a day and I don't chores I only sleep about 4 hours a night.This week we worked one 20 hour day.I know when you don't work many hours it is hard to believe others do and I have been working these hours this for 30 years. 

 
 
 
cms5
17  cms5    5 months ago
I don't vote based on how people comport themselves, I voted on who is going to make it easier to pay my bills and not have to worry as much about my safety.

That is actually the way a majority of Americans vote.

I can't imagine voting for a poorer economy, and fewer jobs with MORE regulations...while watching politicians fill their pockets with cash. This government can't provide good Health care for veterans...look at how the VA works, is that what the entire Nation should subject themselves to with 'Medicare for All'? We saw how well the Affordable Care Act worked for us.

The current group of Dem candidates are willing to put illegal immigrants above this Nation's Laws and its citizens. They want to 'forgive' tuition loans, make everything free, put extra money in everyone's pockets. No, the current Dem candidates aren't sitting on plans that will enhance this Nation and her citizens...they are espousing plans that would require a magic wand and unicorns. Nothing is free.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
17.1  XDm9mm  replied to  cms5 @17    5 months ago
they are espousing plans that would require a magic wand and unicorns.

Actually, they are espousing ideas and plans that would as Obama touted "fundamentally transform" America.

What no one wants to accept is that to "fundamentally transform" something essentially requires that the original be destroyed and something new created in it's place.

I'm fairly certain that no one in this country, with only a few exceptions, would actually want that, while some hoping to gain the power to make it possible espouse it.

 
 
 
cms5
17.1.1  cms5  replied to  XDm9mm @17.1    5 months ago
Actually, they are espousing ideas and plans that would as Obama touted "fundamentally transform" America.

Waving the magic wand and calling all unicorns!

Their idea of transformation is all about destroying capitalism and implementing socialism. Giving them all of the POWER and WEALTH...while all of the American people are EQUALLY POOR.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
18  igknorantzrulz    5 months ago

I could be a moron, but

that would not 

change, if one is a racist.

Just a thought. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
19  Dismayed Patriot    5 months ago
 If you want a strong economy, lower taxes, to know who is entering the country, and an end to American workers losing their jobs to Third World sweatshops--YOU'RE A RACIST! Just like me!!!!

If you ignore the economic achievements of the former President but praise Trump for the icing he has placed on top of all the Obama gains, maybe you're just uninformed, or a little bit racist. If you ignore the growing movement you can't not see within your own party that has white nationalists, white supremacists, KKK members and Neo-Nazis praising your party and President for the harsh immigration policies and constant disrespect of minorities and immigrants, maybe you've been deceived by right wing media, or maybe you're a little bit racist. If you believe voter ID laws are really to keep out illegal voting and not as they were found by the courts to have targeted "African-Americans with almost surgical precision," with the intent to disenfranchise minority voters, you might just be uninformed, ignorant of facts, or maybe a little bit racist. If you have any fear of seeing more "brown people" in your community, of losing what you might perceive as "white culture" which is why you want to see a huge wall along the southern border and not the norther border, then yeah, you're more than a little bit racist.

Non-racist's can, if they try hard enough, find things about Trumps policies that they support that have nothing to do with racism or bigotry towards the lgtbq community. But the fact remains, the racists and bigots in America, specifically the white supremacists, look at Trumps policies and find a smorgasbord of policies that they've been wanting for decades, all the things they've been screaming about in their basements as America moved towards a more inclusive melting pot, the exact opposite of how they imagine "their" America. Thankfully, this minor pendulum swing back towards our racist roots is only temporary. The swing back towards justice and equality will be swift and definitive within the next decade and these same bigots and racists will be back in their basements howling in racist incel rage.

 
 
 
It Is ME
19.1  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @19    5 months ago
If you ignore the economic achievements of the former President but praise Trump for the icing he has placed on top of all the Obama gains, maybe you're just uninformed, or a little bit racist.

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/obama-oversells-u-s-economy/

"Obama Oversells U.S. Economy"

As well as does the "Left" in this country....STILL !

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
19.1.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  It Is ME @19.1    5 months ago

Do U really wish to put that,

against Trumpp's statements on about ANYTHING ?

cause that's pathetic

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
19.1.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  It Is ME @19.1    5 months ago
As well as does the "Left" in this country....STILL !

From the same website you link:

  • The economy gained a net 11.6 million jobs . The unemployment rate dropped to below the historical norm .
  • Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 4.0 percent after inflation . The gain was 3.7 percent for just production and nonsupervisory employees.
  • After-tax corporate profits also set records , as did stock prices . The S&P 500 index rose 166 percent .
  • The number of people lacking health insurance dropped by 15 million . Premiums rose , but more slowly than before .
  • The federal debt owed to the public rose 128 percent. Deficits were rising as Obama departed.
  • Home prices rose 20 percent. But the home ownership rate hit the lowest point in half a century.
  • Illegal immigration declined : The Border Patrol caught 35 percent fewer people trying to get into the U.S. from Mexico.
  • Wind and solar power increased 369 percent . Coal production declined 38 percent. Carbon emissions from burning fossil fuel dropped 11 percent .
  • Production of handguns rose 192 percent, to a record level.
  • The murder rate dropped to the lowest on record in 2014 , then rose and finished at the same rate as when Obama took office.

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/obamas-final-numbers/

 
 
 
It Is ME
19.1.3  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @19.1.2    5 months ago

Sounds like Fact Check changed their minds after Trump took over (2017). They must have been hoping Hillary would have won when they did there 2016 Fact Check checking.

 
 
 
It Is ME
19.1.4  It Is ME  replied to  igknorantzrulz @19.1.1    5 months ago
Do U really wish to put that,

against Trumpp's statements on about ANYTHING ?

cause that's pathetic

Are you talking about Trumps Tweets, or are you speaking of the "Economy" under Trump now (which was what the actual conversation was about) ?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
19.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @19    5 months ago
If you ignore the economic achievements of the former President but praise Trump for the icing he has placed on top of all the Obama gains, maybe you're just uninformed

I'm still waiting for the one that will show the POLICIES of Obama that were responsible for those "gains".

Was it the trillions of dollars in stimulus packages that Congress approved and appropriated, most of which was before Obama was elected?

Was it the near zero interest rates that the FED kept in place for almost the entire tenure of Obama?  

Was it the 85 billion dollars a month that the FED pumped into the economy to sustain it?  

Please someone tell me ONE policy that the economy responded positively to that originated from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

 
 
 
Ronin2
19.2.1  Ronin2  replied to  XDm9mm @19.2    5 months ago
Please someone tell me ONE policy that the economy responded positively to that originated from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Obama leaving office seems to have worked wonders.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
19.2.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Ronin2 @19.2.1    5 months ago
Obama leaving office seems to have worked wonders

It certainly was a breath of fresh air for those Americans who couldn't stand the thought of a black man leading our nation or giving them orders. The white supremacists, KKK members, wannabe confederate crybaby's, Neo-Nazi's, all of them were beyond delighted when Obama finally left office due to term limits. And with their populist white nationalist President winning in 2016 it gave them a new hope for defending what they see as the ever declining 'white culture' they so desperately cling to.

 
 
 
It Is ME
19.2.3  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @19.2.2    5 months ago

A BIG fan of the "Squad" I see. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
19.2.4  r.t..b...  replied to  Ronin2 @19.2.1    5 months ago
Obama leaving office seems to have worked wonders.

Just look at how unified we are today under our eloquent and inspirational leader.

How about we demand something better? One who accepts the responsibilities of the office with equal concern for all Americans, with an appreciation for our long-standing alliances around the world, with a serious understanding of those entities that would do us harm, and with a willingness to forge ahead rather than look back. One with a sense of decency. And one with a depth of knowledge of our history...not just in the symbols, but in the substance, and thus, an unwavering desire to build upon our legacy.  How about we raise the bar, rather than continually settle for the lesser evil?

 
 
 
Ronin2
19.2.5  Ronin2  replied to  r.t..b... @19.2.4    5 months ago

You think we were united under Obama, or Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, or any of the rest? Without social media maybe more civil; but only slightly.

Trump just has just taken our divisiveness to new heights. Think any of the Democratic candidates will do anything to reunite the country if they win? Nope, they will be dealing with with people that have been called racist, deplorables, been told "not my president", "traitor", and that have seen the sheer amount of hatred the left can bring. Want to take bets they will try to top everything the left has done? 

Then they will have their own party hard liners to deal with. Think any of them will want a gesture of unification?  

Whoever wins might reach out a hand; but they will more likely pull back a stump.

I can appreciate your sentiment of your post, really; but reality is far different. There will be a winner and loser next election cycle; but for the rest of us it might be hard to tell the difference.

 
 
 
Ronin2
19.2.6  Ronin2  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @19.2.2    5 months ago

And out comes the race card again.

Did the economy take off after Obama left office? Yes or no. Simple as that. If Obama's policies were so grand the economy would have done far better under his guidance. Trying to pretend that Trump's economy is due to anything Obama did is farcical.

 
 
 
Sunshine
19.2.7  Sunshine  replied to  Ronin2 @19.2.6    5 months ago
And out comes the race card again.

Of course...one shouts racist win losing.  It is difficult to defend Obama so the race card is used frequently.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
19.2.8  r.t..b...  replied to  Ronin2 @19.2.5    5 months ago
Trump just has just taken our divisiveness to new heights.

Agreed, and I share your frustration. But this is the point. Do we accept it as the new normal or reject it? See the damage it has wrought or accept even more from the next administration? It is untenable and potentially lethal. It does not need become a fixture, but it will require us collectively stepping back and accepting of a new brand of leadership that is open to compromise, that has empathy for all viewpoints, and at the very least, has the moral fiber to respect us all. It seems like a large task for whatever unfathomable reason, but it starts with us expecting more from our leaders and frankly more from ourselves, even on venues such as this.   ...and scene...thanks for the opportunity to rant, Ronin. Peace.

 
 
 
Ender
19.2.9  Ender  replied to  r.t..b... @19.2.8    5 months ago
Conservative columnist and Republican Party ex-pat George Will slammed President Donald Trump on Thursday for causing more damage to the United States than former President Richard Nixon.
When asked by CNN's John Berman on "New Day" about his previous comments that Trump has   done more lasting damage to the country than Nixon did , Will highlighted Trump's "public and constant" approach.
"Nixon's burglaries and other abuses of power were surreptitious -- they were secret and when exposed, they were tidied up, and we moved on," Will said.
"What Mr. Trump is doing that is damaging to the country is public and constant, it is a bell he's ringing that can't be unrung," he added. "He's putting into our civic discourse a level of conversation and of name-calling and of abuse that will now seem perfectly normal in the future."
Will, a longtime conservative columnist at the Washington Post, famously left the Republican Party  in 2016 and changed his voter registration to "unaffiliated" because of Trump.
"After Trump went after the 'Mexican' judge from northern Indiana then (House Speaker) Paul Ryan endorsed him, I decided that in fact this was not my party anymore," Will said on "Fox News Sunday" at the time.
Will on Thursday also criticized   Trump for echoing North Korean leader Kim Jong Un's jab   at former Vice President Joe Biden as having a "low IQ" during a recent trip to Japan.
"Try to imagine any president prior to this one referring overseas to an opponent as he did to Mr. Biden," Will said, adding, "that's just not the way -- our children, if they were ten years old, we'd send them to their room without supper if they talked like that."
 
 
 
Ronin2
19.2.10  Ronin2  replied to  r.t..b... @19.2.8    5 months ago

It is the way our two party system is set up. It is the way the Establishment wants it; and it seems to be the way we like it. 

Again, I am with you on your wishes for change. I am just far too pessimistic (or realistic depending on your view point) to think that it will happen.

thanks for the opportunity to rant, Ronin. Peace.

You are truthfully one of the best people to rant with (I mean that sincerely).  Peace r.t..b... 

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
19.2.11  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  Ender @19.2.9    5 months ago

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...

 
 
 
Tessylo
19.2.12  Tessylo  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @19.2.11    5 months ago

But not your alternative facts

 
 
 
Citizen Kane-473667
19.2.13  author  Citizen Kane-473667  replied to  Tessylo @19.2.12    5 months ago
alternative facts

I'm going to ask this knowing full well you won't give a comprehensive answer or back your claim with any actual proof, but here goes anyway:

Which ones would those be????

 
 
 
bugsy
19.2.14  bugsy  replied to  Citizen Kane-473667 @19.2.13    5 months ago
Which ones would those be????

And here we are almost a full day later, and....nothing.

Anybody surprised?

I'm not.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
19.3  livefreeordie  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @19    5 months ago

Obama only “economic accomplishment” was to have the worst economic performance since WWII and the 4th worst of any president in our nation’s history 

As a result of his failed economic policies, Obama currently ranks as the fourth worst presidency on record in GDP growth at 1.457%. Only Herbert Hoover (-5.65%), Andrew Johnson (-0.70%) and Theodore Roosevelt (1.41%) currently have lower average annual GDP growth than Barack Obama. In addition, Obama has the lowest annual GDP growth rate of any President since World War II .

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/worst-president-ever-obamas-historically-low-gdp-growth-rate-working-on/

“Final Tally: Obama's Subpar Economy Cost Americans $2.4 Trillion

Obama oversaw the weakest economic recovery since World War II.

Just how weak? Compare GDP growth of the 10 previous recoveries to Obama's, which is now 30 quarters long. What you find is that, on average, the real GDP had grown 33.5% over that length of time. Under Obama, total GDP growth has been 17.1%.

Economics: The GDP report for the fourth quarter last year was a fitting end to President Obama's time in office. At a tepid 1.9% growth, it means that the economy once again underperformed everyone's expectations.

As late as June 2016, the Obama administration was forecasting that real GDP would climb 2.2% for the year. Actual growth for 2016 was 1.6%, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.”

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/final-tally-obamas-subpar-economy-cost-americans-2-4-trillion/

U.S. Deficit Increases to $587 Billion, Ending Downward Trend

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration confirmed on Friday that a six-year run of declining annual budget deficits had halted: The shortfall for the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30 was $587 billion, an increase over last year in dollars and as a percentage of the economy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/15/us/politics/us-deficit-increases-to-587-billion-ending-downward-trend.html?_r=0

The Bush deficit was 481 Billion as of January 2009.  At the end of FY 2008 the deficit was 454.8 Billion according to CBO.

Per the US Treasury's month to month data, the deficit as of January 31, 2009 was 481.84 Billion

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/backissues.htm

Weak investment is the signature feature and cause of the abysmal Obama "recovery." The aggregate of all investments in the United States is Net Private Domestic Investment computed by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Relative to GDP Net Private Domestic Investment (NPDI) was 7% per year from1960 to 2008. That average was 7 to 8 percent from 1960 to 1990, and 6.5 percent in the Clinton and Bush (W) years. But for the Obama years NPDI was an astoundingly low 2% of GDP!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2016/11/29/obama-and-the-dems-dismal-recovery/#7075173ccb0e

Recession officially ended June 2009- No thanks to Obama and Dems

https://money.cnn.com/2010/09/20/news/economy/recession_over/index.htm

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
19.3.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  livefreeordie @19.3    5 months ago

So I take it you're trying desperately to not look uninformed, but you know as well as I do you're only telling half the story and I just wonder "why?".

 
 
 
XDm9mm
19.3.2  XDm9mm  replied to  livefreeordie @19.3    5 months ago
Obama only “economic accomplishment” was to have the worst economic performance since WWII and the 4th worst of any president in our nation’s history 

Ruh roh....    you're pissing off a great number of Obama acolytes with that entire post.  You're supposed to bow down to the Community Organizer who never even ran a lemonade stand when but believe all his mutterings when it concerns his economic prowess.

If memory serves me correctly, he wanted to know what magic wand could be waved to bring those jobs back.   The magic wand was called Donald Trump.    

 
 
 
Tessylo
19.3.3  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @19.3.2    5 months ago

Exactly which jobs did this shitstain Rump bring back?

 
 
 
katrix
19.3.4  katrix  replied to  XDm9mm @19.3.2    5 months ago
You're supposed to bow down to the Community Organizer who never even ran a lemonade stand when but believe all his mutterings when it concerns his economic prowess

Who was also a member of Congress ... rather than believing a draft-dodging reality TV "star" who got famous for bankrupting numerous businesses and for always needing to be the center of attention?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
19.3.5  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Tessylo @19.3.3    5 months ago
Exactly which jobs did this shitstain Rump bring back?

Trump has overseen a 1% drop in unemployment. Of course Obama oversaw a 5% drop in unemployment, but hey, whose counting anything that black guy did, am I right? /s

Obama cut the deficit by 60%. Trump has increased the deficit by 48%.

Obama oversaw the recovery from the worst US financial collapse in over 70 years reversing the -2.5% GDP and turning it into a +2.5% GDP average with numerous quarters over 4% growth. Trump has managed to add .7% moving us to a 3.2% GDP average.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/20/the-trump-economy-is-starting-to-look-more-and-more-like-the-obama-economy.html

 
 
 
JohnRussell
19.3.6  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @19.3.2    5 months ago

960x0.jpg?fit=scale

Forbes compared Trump's first 29 months of job growth with Obama's last 29 months of job growth. 

Trump loses. 

Over 29 months Obama added almost 1 million more jobs than Trump

Trump entered office on January 20, 2017, and starting with February 2017 he has been President for 29 months. Total job growth during that time has been 5.613 million or 194,000 per month with those results being helped by the tax cut.

Working back from January 2017, Obama’s last month in office, there had been 6.423 million jobs added or 221,000 per month. The difference for the 29 months is 810,000 more jobs or 27,000 more per month than Trump.

 
 
 
Sunshine
19.3.7  Sunshine  replied to  livefreeordie @19.3    5 months ago
Obama only “economic accomplishment” was to have the worst economic performance since WWII and the 4th worst of any president in our nation’s history 

That is why no Democrat will run on it.  They stay far away from mentioning Obama and the economy.

 
 
 
Ronin2
19.3.8  Ronin2  replied to  katrix @19.3.4    5 months ago
Who was also a member of Congress ... rather than believing a draft-dodging reality TV "star" who got famous for bankrupting numerous businesses and for always needing to be the center of attention?

You mean you are really impressed by Obama's one sponsored bill that passed? 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/07/joe-biden/obama-sponsored-a-bill-that-became-law/

Though advocacy groups generally gave him positive marks for taking action, Obama's absence from heated political battles makes it difficult to assess his effectiveness as a legislator. Still, he has passed one bill signed into law, making Biden's statement False.

Or was it his short time in the Senate missing many votes?  Of course he was just using the Senate position as a marker to set up for his presidential run.

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/senators-missing-votes/

While campaigning for the Democratic nomination in 2008, then- Sen. Obama of Illinois  missed 64.3 percent of votes in calendar year 2008, according to the website GovTrack.us, which tracks missed votes by members of Congress. Obama, who announced he was running for president in February 2007 , missed 37.6 percent of votes that year. So, over the nearly two years that Obama was a candidate for president, he missed 46.3 percent of votes in the Senate.

But Obama was a master of Chicago style politics. That we can all easily agree upon. But does that make him better or worse than a, " draft-dodging reality TV "star" who got famous for bankrupting numerous businesses and for always needing to be the center of attention?"

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
19.3.9  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sunshine @19.3.7    5 months ago
That is why no Democrat will run on it.

Most of us weren't alive the last time the US economy tanked as bad as it did in 2008/2009. It had been over 70 years since that kind of massive recession, bordering on the great depression numbers. Yet, all the Trump sycophants can do is complain about how it was supposedly the "4th worst" recovery in our history. I'm thankful we recovered, not so much complaining that it was the 4th slowest while also being the 2nd worst collapse. Now I get it, you can play semantics and try to convince people to only see it from some warped perspective because the critic is trying to hide the real reason for their animus. But the fact remains, Obama did turn this nations economy around, got us back to record high on wall street and unemployment below its lowest in the previous 40 years both for white and black Americans. [deleted] But stop trying to hide behind the skirts of reason, just admit it, many religious conservatives hated having a black President with a strong black woman as first lady. The right wing memes while Obama was in office proved that deep seated sentiment was there with many caricatures of he or Michelle as apes, Muslims or militant black panthers.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
19.3.10  JohnRussell  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @19.3.5    5 months ago

There is a sort of gorilla in the room about all this job growth stuff and economic growth stuff that very few people talk about. 

And that is, what Trump basically has done is not take his hands off the steering wheel after Obama handed it to him. The economy was already improving, the unemployment rate was already coming DOWN consistently when Trump took office. He keeps it on the same plane and then grabs all the credit. I'm not saying Trump hasnt contributed to the unemployment coming down, but he is not responsible for it coming down. He can claim that he has kept the trend positive. 

The unemployment rate was going to come down no matter who was president. Trumps job creation totals are less than Obamas, therefore all the credit CANNOT be Trumps. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
19.3.11  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @19.3.6    5 months ago

Hey Russell, you forget a little damn thing called the recession? Of course Obama added more jobs in the first 29 months. WTF.

He had TARP, Stimulus, Porkulus, zero percent interest rates, and the Fed pumping millions back into the economy every month buying up toxic assets. 

He still oversaw the slowest recovery from a recession ever since WWII, period.

See post 19.3 for Obama's true economy. See below for even more backup.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/01/obama-wins-the-gold-for-worst-economic-recovery-ever/#4cc58a223ca2

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-obama-recovery-took-so-long-1536619545

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obamanomics-gets-f-grade-for-failing-to-create-economic-growth-jobs/

https://www.uschamber.com/above-the-fold/obama-s-economic-legacy-just-the-facts

https://nypost.com/2017/04/01/obama-was-terrible-for-economic-growth/

https://internationalbanker.com/brokerage/economic-impact-obama-presidency-2009-2017/

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
19.3.12  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  JohnRussell @19.3.10    5 months ago
The economy was already improving, the unemployment rate was already coming DOWN consistently when Trump took office.

President Obama was handed a country in collapse and had to basically bake our economic cake from scratch. Did he use some fiscal smoke and mirrors with quantitative easing to accomplish it? Yes, but the fact is he made the cake and baked it that Trump is now merely decorating. Trump has never done a hard days work in his life, and he has done nothing but rebrand Obama's successes and sell them to those who were upset with having a black President. He's added the frosting and gold leaf and told them it was all from him, and that's exactly what virtually every one of the white supremacists, KKK members and neo-Nazi's wanted to hear which is why they came out for him in droves.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
19.3.13  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @19.3.11    5 months ago

[Removed

 
 
 
JohnRussell
19.3.14  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @19.3.11    5 months ago

Obama added more fucking jobs, it's that simple.  Yeah you could say that Obama had more room to add jobs than Trump did, that is true. By the time Trump got in it started to get tough to add more jobs as the unemployment was already down to 4.7 when Trump took office.  So Trump was able to keep the downward trend going.  

He didnt perform some fucking miracle, he continued what was already ongoing. 

Jesus Christ, will you people please stop with this nonsense that Trump achieved some monumental positive reversal in the economy. Its bullshit. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
19.3.15  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @19.3.10    5 months ago

Is that today's talking point? That Trump's left the economy alone?

Just forget yesterday, with all the whining about how the worst economic team in history and their tax cuts, trade wars, de regulation  etc were dooming the economy.

Now its "well, Trump hasn't really done anything." 

The economy was already improving..

Right.  Once an economy is improving, it can never stop improving...That's how it works, in your world?

unemployment rate was going to come down no matter who became President

Again, that's not how this works. 

But if you believe that, it's nice of you to declare yourself, and pretty much every liberal pundit out there, a liar for declaring  what a disaster Trump would be for the economy.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
19.3.16  XDm9mm  replied to  JohnRussell @19.3.6    5 months ago
Working back from January 2017, Obama’s last month in office, there had been 6.423 million jobs added or 221,000 per month. The difference for the 29 months is 810,000 more jobs or 27,000 more per month than Trump.

You forgot to mention the TRILLIONS of dollars of 'stimulus' funding pushing the economy, AND you forgot to mention the near ZERO percent interest rates promoted by the FED to stimulate the economy, AND you forgot to mention the 85 BILLION a month the FED was pumping into the economy to prod it along and not further implode.

What you also FORGOT mention when you spoke of Trump was he accomplished what he did with RISING interest rates, NO trillions in stimulus funding, no FED pumping 85 billion a month into the economy.

Shit, with what Obama had helping him, he should have had an economic boom never before seen in history as opposed to the weakest recovery ever. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
19.3.17  Sunshine  replied to  XDm9mm @19.3.16    5 months ago

Now now...Obama did come up with the Cash for Clunkers program.  We do need to get him credit for that. jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Ronin2
19.3.18  Ronin2  replied to  Sunshine @19.3.17    5 months ago

Don't remind me. The only ones that thanked him for that were automakers.

Try buying a cheap used car for that period; or years after. They didn't exist. Which was what Obama really wanted. It isn't like he was ever going to need to buy a cheap used car to survive a Michigan winter.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
19.3.19  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  JohnRussell @19.3.14    5 months ago

Obama added more regulations than all the previous presidents in US history and it obstructed economic recovery

Trump is no rocket scientist.  He just removed the oppressive regulatory cronyism that hurt the middle and lower class the most. Obama was the worst president in history for minorities economically.

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/tracking-deregulation-in-the-trump-era/

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
20  igknorantzrulz    5 months ago

i sorta recall Repubs voting

AGAINST any thing Obama suggested, otherwise his presidency would have accomplished significantly MORE,

but, let's omit that little detail

 
 
 
 
livefreeordie
20.2  livefreeordie  replied to  igknorantzrulz @20    5 months ago

Why would Republicans vote for more socialism?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
20.2.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  livefreeordie @20.2    5 months ago

because they're antisocial

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
20.2.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  livefreeordie @20.2    5 months ago
Why would Republicans vote for more socialism?

So I guess we can just call anything "socialism" now, right? Why bother going to church, that's socialism. Why bother paying your electric bill, that's socialism. Why allow your grandparent to cash their social security check, that's socialism! Why go to hospitals when you're injured, socialism! The way you use it the word loses all meaning. It's like how gay used to mean happy but is now used for any same sex relationship, socialism used to mean "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole" but now apparently means anything liberals or progressives suggest to make our nation a more perfect union that protects the rights of all Americans regardless of race, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, faith or lack thereof. They don't even debate on policy anymore, they just label it "socialism!" and push it into the crowd of torch wielding bigoted dumb shits to burn it in effigy.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
20.2.3  XDm9mm  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.2.2    5 months ago
So I guess we can just call anything "socialism" now, right? Why bother going to church, that's socialism. Why bother paying your electric bill, that's socialism. Why allow your grandparent to cash their social security check, that's socialism! Why go to hospitals when you're injured, socialism! The way you use it the word loses all meaning. It's like how gay used to mean happy but is now used for any same sex relationship, socialism used to mean "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole" but now apparently means anything liberals or progressives suggest to make our nation a more perfect union that protects the rights of all Americans regardless of race, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, faith or lack thereof. They don't even debate on policy anymore, they just label it "socialism!" and push it into the crowd of torch wielding bigoted dumb shits to burn it in effigy.

Exactly what are you rambling about?

Paying an electric bill is socialism?  One must surmise that you're unaware that most electric utilities are actually PRIVATE enterprises with stockholders.  They're usually regulated by government, but they're not public owned.

Going to a hospital is socialism?  Again, one must surmise you're unaware that with FEW exceptions, hospitals are actually private stockholder owned institutions.  

And then you say this gem:

They don't even debate on policy anymore, they just label it "socialism!" and push it into the crowd of torch wielding bigoted dumb shits to burn it in effigy.

Oh so very tolerant.  And you wonder why we laugh not with but at you.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
20.2.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  XDm9mm @20.2.3    5 months ago
Going to a hospital is socialism?

You obviously missed the point which was some have so devalued the meaning of "socialism" that its being used as a catch-all for any and all liberal or progressive policies. I was not claiming those things ARE socialist, though many have what some would consider 'socialist' components, I was pointing out how the definition has apparently strayed so far from fact in religious conservatives minds that it can be used for anything. Angry the raccoons are getting into your trash? "Damn socialists! Get out of my garbage!". The word 'socialism' has lost its meaning from being used to profusely, that was my point, though this fact has apparently gone over some heads.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
20.2.5  XDm9mm  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.2.4    5 months ago
The word 'socialism' has lost its meaning from being used to profusely,

Oh, like NAZI, racist, homophobic, misogynist, and the plethora of terms some use to describe those of us who disagree with the left and where they want to take this country?

Thanks for inadvertently supporting my position.

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.2.6  TᵢG  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.2.2    5 months ago
So I guess we can just call anything "socialism" now, right?

( Pretty much what people seem to do. )

 
 
 
Ronin2
20.3  Ronin2  replied to  igknorantzrulz @20    5 months ago

Only in leftist dreamland.

So by your logic Trump could be accomplishing so much more is the Dems weren't voting against any he suggested?

Of course with the Dems obstruction it is on principle; with the Republicans obstruction it was racism and hatred of country./S

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
20.3.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Ronin2 @20.3    5 months ago

My LOGIC ??

How, when it was originally a bill proposed by a Republican, and Obama agreed with it, then it  was withdrawn, and or voted against by the Republican Congress, can you call that logic ?

 
 
 
Ronin2
20.3.2  Ronin2  replied to  igknorantzrulz @20.3.1    5 months ago

Sight your bills. If you try the PPACA please head straight to the back of the class. That idea was shelved as being completely unusable by the very people that thought it up back during the Clinton administration. Leave it to Obama and the Dems to dust that turd off and try and pass it off as a Republican sponsored idea.

I can give you an instance of the Dems doing it. A very recent one.

You mean like the Dems voting present for the Green New Deal bill?

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/26/18281323/green-new-deal-democrats-vote

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/03/27/senate_votes_down_green_new_deal_as_most_democrats_vote_present_139869.html

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
20.3.3  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Ronin2 @20.3.2    5 months ago

  not the ideas they hate, is it?

Goposaur.gif Republican obstructionism isn’t exactly new in Washington, D.C. It’s been all the rage since Barack Obama was elected President. Since then, a majority of Republicans have gone to great lengths in an attempt to torpedo his Presidency.

The twisted irony is this: Many of the ideas President Obama and the Democrats have tried to put forth were actually Republican ideas first. So when you think about it, finding common ground and passing legislation that might, you know, help the American people, would be possible if  Republicans weren’t hell-bent on attacking President Obama.

Here are 10 examples:

1. The Obamacare individual mandate.   Before they became obsessed with bringing down Obamacare, Republicans   had the idea of a free-rider fee   for people who can afford health insurance but refuse to buy it, also known as the individual mandate. The free-rider fee is part of “Romneycare” in Massachusetts.

2. End-of-life counseling.   Republicans also used to include   counseling for end-of-life issues   in their own healthcare proposals. But when President Obama liked the idea? Well, he just wants to kill your grandparents. Oh, and by the way, the so-called “death panels” are nothing of the kind. It’s simply about giving patients and their families the information they need to make the best decisions about the end-of-life care they want.

3. Donor disclosure.   Before they   opposed the DISCLOSE Act , Republican Congressional leaders were all for transparency in campaign contributions. How can we forget House GOP leader John Boehner proclaiming that   “sunlight is the best disinfectant” ?

4. Clean energy.   There was once a day when Congressional Republicans made   clean energy a priority . They supported national energy laboratories, hybrid-vehicle manufacturers and the development of electric car batteries. Now, of course, they want nothing to do with clean energy. After all, there are plenty of climate-change deniers to claim there’s no reason to make the investment.

5. Medicare cost savings.   Before they accused Obamacare of “cutting” $700 billion from Medicare, Republicans in Congress proposed the same $700 billion in savings from reducing waste and inefficiencies in Medicare. But unlike the cuts made by Obamacare, which come from   eliminating excess payments to providers   (not patients), the GOP wanted to use the money for more tax cuts for the wealthy. Not to mention that Republicans have been   trying to make cuts to Medicare for years , and still are. Vouchers, anyone?

6. Deficit-reduction commission.   This one’s downright blatant. Republicans in Congress voted   against their own bill to create a deficit-reduction commission   because, according to a former GOP senator, they wanted to “stick it to the president.”

7. Welfare flexibility.   After wanting more flexibility to eliminate red tape and move people out of the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program and into jobs, Mitt Romney,   GOP governors   and   Congressional Republicans   fought the idea when the Obama Administration proposed it.

8. Nuclear START treaty.   Before they   tried to block the nuclear START treaty   negotiated by the Obama Administration, Republican leaders supported it under Presidents   Reagan   and Bush.

9. Gun violence prevention.   Republicans in Congress helped President Reagan pass the   Brady Bill establishing a national gun purchase background check system and pass a ban on military-style assault weapons . Now Republicans in Congress  
oppose restoring the ban
, and   voted against closing the background check loophole   that lets criminals buy guns easily at gun shows and over the Internet.

10. Upholding the Constitution.   Many Republicans — especially Conservatives — say they live by the Constitution. But they can’t seem to make up their minds about the Constitution’s eligibility requirements to serve as President. Conservatives have, and still do, argue that if President Obama were born in a foreign country (which he wasn’t) to his American mother, he’d be ineligible to be President. But they don’t seem to have a problem with Tea Party darling   Senator Ted Cruz   running for President — even though he actually was born in a foreign country to an American mother.

[GOPosaur image courtesy of   Daily Kos ]

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.3.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  igknorantzrulz @20.3.1    5 months ago
My LOGIC ??

You're cheating, iggy. Using facts. Tying them together with logic

Such behavior is not well looked-on, on NewsTalkers...

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
20.3.5  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.3.4    5 months ago

or responded to

 
 
 
Ronin2
20.3.6  Ronin2  replied to  igknorantzrulz @20.3.3    5 months ago

OK, here is "your" logic.

#1, # 2, #5 The Obamacare individual mandate.    End-of-life counseling. Medicare cost savings.

From the article it takes it from. 

The individual mandate was a Republican policy idea. It was developed as a defense against single-payer health care . It was endorsed by the Heritage Foundation. George H.W. Bush put together a plan with an individual mandate , but left it on the shelf because there was no way it’d pass in a Democratic Congress. It was present in the two main health-care proposals that Republicans released as alternatives to Bill Clinton’s health-care reforms. This wasn’t policy that a few Republican heretics were curious about. It was something that about half of the Republicans in the Senate affirmatively signed onto, policy that the most important Republican think tank backed, policy that a Republican president considered proposing. I won’t go so far as to say it was official Republican Party policy, but it was pretty close. Look at the co-sponsors from the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act , the legislation that Romney spoke favorably of back in 1994. I’ve bolded the names of all the Republicans who were active in health-care reform during the last two years.

George H.W. Bush had a plan, but didn't release it because it wouldn't pass a Democratic Congress. So the Dems were against it for a Republican president; but for it for a Democrat one. Really proves my point . Thank you.

How many Republicans were left that endorsed it in Congress when it was passed that originally sponsored the idea? Go ahead, peruse the names.

Here, I will make it easy for you and attach a list of the vote. How many people on the list they used were actually there to vote on the PPACA? Oh, and voting against the piece of shit law doesn't mean they weren't for certain parts of it. They were against the over all law; so the point is even further blunted.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/111-2010/h165

Also, the Heritage Foundation shelved their health care attempt; because they didn't deem it feasible, and it didn't have the support of the majority of Republicans.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Is the Affordable Care Act really the same as "the Republican plan in the early '90s?"

Short answer -- sort of. There was a Republican bill in the Senate that looked a whole lot like Obamacare, but it wasn’t the only GOP bill on Capitol Hill, it never came to a vote and from what we can tell, plenty of conservative Republicans didn’t like it.

Qualls told PunditFact that she was thinking of the Senate bill.

"You would find a great deal of similarity to provisions in the Affordable Care Act," Sheila Burke, Dole’s chief of staff in 1993, told PunditFact via email. "The guys were way ahead of the times!! Different crowd, different time, suffice it to say."

That said, the Senate plan from 1993 was not identical to the health care law that passed in 2010. The Republican bill did not expand Medicaid as Obamacare does, and it did have medical malpractice tort reform, which the current law does not. In contrast to the current employer mandate, the Chafee bill required employers to offer insurance, but they were under no obligation to help pay for it.

Policy differences aside, health care scholar and former Clinton adviser Paul Starr at Princeton University said the Affordable Care Act is distinct in one other important way.

"The Chafee plan did not spell out how increased coverage would be financed," Starr said. "It was more of a symbolic bill than an actual piece of legislation."

In fact, after the bill was introduced, the Senate never took it up again .

Even before Chafee brought his bill forward, some conservatives were trying to scuttle it.

More hard-line senators such as Phil Gramm, R-Texas, House Republicans and the Heritage Foundation saw the Chafee bill as an unacceptable compromise. What they wanted was outright defeat of the president’s approach.

No single alternative emerged, but there were a variety of Republican proposals. One in the House drew more co-sponsors than any other, 72 of them. It was called the Action Now Health Reform Act , but its scope was limited. Much of it focused on insurance for small businesses and the self-employed. It offered some protections for people with pre-existing conditions and included changes in medical malpractice law.

There was a smorgasbord of other House Republican bills. Like Chafee’s bill, none of them went anywhere.

Our ruling

Qualls said the Affordable Care Act "was the Republican plan in the '90s." The bill she had in mind did have a strong roster of Republicans behind it, and it did share many major features with the Affordable Care Act. There were some significant differences but in a side-by-side comparison, the similarities dominate.

However, to call it the Republican plan, as though a majority of Republicans endorsed it, goes too far. The House Republicans took a different path, and there was opposition from more hard-line members of the Republican coalition. It is telling that the Chafee bill never became a full blown bill and never came up for a vote.

Told you not to list the PPACA. That has been disproven so many times it isn't even funny.

3. Donor disclosure.

You need to do better, much better.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/07/republicans-thwart-new-campaign-fin/

Beyond Republican members of Congress, the bill’s opponents include the Center for Competitive Politics , the American Civil Liberties Union and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce .

“Congress should not be wasting its time on an ‘Incumbent Protection Act,’ but instead should be focused on job creation,” Chamber President and Chief Executive Officer Thomas Donohue recently said . “The DISCLOSE Act is an unconstitutional attempt to silence free speech and a desperate attempt by [Democrats] to gain political advantage in the 2010 elections.”

Want to explain why the ACLU was against the law if it was that great?

4. Clean energy.

Please. Republicans supported all energy. Of course the Republicans that you are talking about were a different crop from the previous Republicans weren't they? Of course the left considers Tea Party members Republicans- which they are not. They may caucus with Republicans but that is about it.

6. Deficit-reduction commission.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/07/republicans-thwart-new-campaign-fin/

In his official statement, Ryan praised aspects of the proposal, saying that while "I could not support the plan in its entirety, many of its elements surely are worthy of further pursuit."

On the downside, though, Ryan cited a failure to do enough to reduce future health care costs, as well as its approach to taxes, as reasons to vote against it. "Their proposal is a serious and credible plan, but I cannot support it," he said at the time .

On health care, Ryan said a vote for the report would advance the new Obama health care law, which he and other Republicans opposed. "My primary concern with this plan is health care," Ryan said at a news conference with other members of the panel. "I do not believe that this sufficiently fixes the health care problem. And, guess what, our debt problem is the health care problem."

He elaborated in a news release , "This plan not only lacks needed structural reforms, but would in fact take us in the wrong direction on health care by accelerating the adverse consequences of the president’s health care law."

Meanwhile, on taxes, Ryan said the plan "relies too heavily on revenue increases. … Increasing the government’s take from the economy hinders growth."

Ryan’s camp says he worked to find a bipartisan solution before the final vote was taken, joining with Alice Rivlin, a Democratic former director of the Office of Management and Budget, to offer an alternative plan that would have converted Medicaid, the state-federal health plan for the poor, into a block grant for states. But Democrats on the commission "opposed the plan and it was dropped," according to the Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call.

The Democrats weren't interested in negotiating. Obama wanted the Republicans to roll over and play dead. When they didn't the hissy fit on the left started.

I will tackle the rest if I feel like wasting more time.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
20.3.7  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Ronin2 @20.3.6    5 months ago

You asked me for examples, i provided them.

Don't make excuses for them. I provided them, and proved your questioning my statement about Republicans reversing their positions on ideas they supported, when Obama then elected to want those ideas moved forward, to be wrong.

I stand by my original assertion, the one you declared inaccurate. 

 
 
 
The Old Breed Marine
21  The Old Breed Marine    5 months ago

Great article CK!

 
 
 
bugsy
22  bugsy    5 months ago

CK, I like many, many others, agree with you on this.

It seems like we are back in 2008-2016 again when liberals called us racist for no other reason than not thinking like them. or for criticizing messiah Obama for his policies. They did not learn from 2016, that the name calling, the insults, and the demeaning of us is the reason why we have a President Trump. I think that if they had kept the campaign and election clean of insults, and assaults, we may very well have had a President Hillary. I'm actually pretty happy we don't, however.

What liberals don't realize is that millions of us conservatives are married to others of another race, my wife being from the Philippines. If I use liberal logic, (I feel my IQ would drop 20 points if I did) I am racist against my wife, our son, his wife who is Japanese, their 2 kids, my wife's siblings, her mom, and every Filipino that I have come in contact with, whether here in the US, or in the Philippines. How idiotic can they be?

When I stated on another thread that I agree with the President for saying the "squad" needs to go back to where they are from, (I don't agree with the exact language, but I do with the pretense), and that my wife has been a victim of "go back from where you came", from a black woman, no less, liberals jumped on me and said that I should be sympathetic to their plight. I am not. My wife loves this country and is as happy to be an American as most who were born here. That is a direct 180 from the "squad", who obviously hate this country and want to change it to a liberal utopia that is sure to fail. They are simply just too naive to realize it.

Thank God for immigrants who have come here to embrace the American dream, adopted this country as their own, and love this country, hoping it will succeed in the same way it had in the past 200 plus years, and have dismissed liberals and their rhetoric to "fundamentally transform" this country into a proven, failed socialist, liberal utopia.

 
 
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