Militia plot to kidnap Michigan governor Whitmer and take over the state

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  john-russell  •  2 weeks ago  •  305 comments

Militia plot to kidnap Michigan governor Whitmer and take over the state
Tom Winter

@Tom_Winter


NBC News: At least 5 men have been charged in a federal case in Michigan tied to a plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. The men are identified in court documents as Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, and Brandon Caserta.

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JohnRussell
1  author  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

LANSING — The federal government has charged six people with conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, according to newly unsealed court records.

The FBI became aware early in 2020, through social media, that a militia group was "discussing the violent overthrow of certain government and law enforcement components," and "agreed to take violent action," according to a sworn affidavit.

Members of the group talked about "murdering ... tyrants" or "taking" a sitting governor, according to the affidavit. One of the relevant meetings the FBI monitored was held June 20 in Grand Rapids. the affidavit alleges.

The group met for field exercises and training this year and conducted surveillance of the  the governor's vacation home on at least two occasions in late August and September, the affidavit alleges.

Discussions included using 200 men to "storm" the Capitol Building in Lansing, kidnap hostages, including, Whitmer and try the governor for treason, according to the affidavit.

"All of us can disagree about politics, but those disagreements should never, ever result in violence," said U.S. Attorney Matthew Schneider in the Eastern District of Michigan. "The allegations in this complaint are deeply disturbing. We owe are thanks to the men and women of law enforcement who uncovered this plot and have worked so hard to protect Gov. Whitmer."

Charged in the U.S. District Court in the western district of Michigan are: Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, and Brandon Caserta, according to a criminal complaint. They are charged with conspiracy to commit kidnapping, according to the complaint.

All are residents of Michigan except Croft, who is a resident of Delaware, the complaint alleges.

More than a dozen people from several states met in Dublin, Ohio on June 6 and talked about creating a society that followed the U.S. Bill of Rights, in which they could be self-sufficient.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/governor-gretchen-whitmer-kidnap-plot-militia/5921409002/

 
 
 
devangelical
1.1  devangelical  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

golly, I hope they had the foresight to vote early for trump before this, just in case ... /s

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1    2 weeks ago
I hope they had the foresight to vote early for trump

"One of the militiamen accused of  plotting to kidnap  Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer railed that President Trump was a “tyrant” and called all government workers “your enemy.”

https://nypost.com/2020/10/09/man-accused-of-whitmer-kidnap-plot-ripped-trump-as-tyrant/?utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

 
 
 
devangelical
1.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

I could have made an error. who's the nazi or klan candidates this year? oh wait, that sounds redundant x3 ...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.2    2 weeks ago

Unlike the far left, they don't seem to have one.

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.2  Split Personality  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

The "news" is now reporting 13 arrested?

 
 
 
MAGA
1.3  MAGA  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

Well, it looks like the anarchists, true to form, think all government leaders are tyrants, including President Trump. 

Brandon Caserta is one of the ringleaders in the foiled plot to kidnap the governor and video reportedly of Caserta shows the suspect calling President Trump a "tyrant" and an "enemy." 

"Trump is not your friend, dude," Caserta says. "And it amazes me that people actually believe that when he's shown over and over and over again that he's a tyrant. Every single person that works for government is your enemy, dude." 

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/10/08/anarchist-who-plotted-against-whitmer-also-said-this-about-president-trump-n2577750

 
 
 
Dulay
1.3.1  Dulay  replied to  MAGA @1.3    2 weeks ago
Brandon Caserta

Do you EVER research what you post Xx?

Of the 5 men arrested by the feds, the FBI complain cites Adam FOX - 92Xs, Barry CROFT - 27Xs, Ty GARBIN - 42Xs, Kaleb FRANKS - 35Xs, Daniel HARRIS -18xs, and Brandon CASERTA 2Xs. 

Brandon Caserta is NO 'ringleader' Xx.

 
 
 
cjcold
1.3.2  cjcold  replied to  MAGA @1.3    2 weeks ago

I thought that Townhall was a far right wing propaganda site that was banned here.

 
 
 
devangelical
1.3.3  devangelical  replied to  cjcold @1.3.2    2 weeks ago

just the german language version ...

 
 
 
cjcold
1.3.4  cjcold  replied to  cjcold @1.3.2    2 weeks ago

Perrie?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-bizarre-brew-of-crazy-behind-the-whitmer-kidnapping-plot?source=articles&via=rss

The   13 men arrested for allegedly plotting to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer   and possibly spark a new civil war drank an impressive variety of flavors of far-right, fringe Kool Aid.

There was Eric Molitor, a 36-year-old whose Facebook page gushed about   17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse, the Blue Lives Matter wannabe   militiaman accused of killing two people in Kenosha, Wisconsin, this summer. Molitor now faces state charges of providing material support for terrorist acts and carrying a firearm during the commission of a felony.

As The Daily Beast   previously reported , he was also apparently a fan of QAnon, the disturbingly mainstream conspiracy theory “movement” that holds President Trump is quietly, nobly doing battle with a cadre of pedophiles who happen to inhabit the highest levels of the government. The suspect posted the “Save Our Children,” hashtag, a seemingly innocuous cause that has increasingly come to resemble a collective delusion that in some cases has allegedly inspired people to kidnap their own children.

He was   also   apparently into Three Percenter-style militia activity, which long predates QAnon and is premised around the false idea that 3 percent of Revolutionary War-era colonists fought in that conflict. Three Percenters have been a regular—armed—presence at a slew of violent protests in recent years, the deadly Unite the Rally among them.

Then there’s Brandon Caserta.

As   The   Detroit News   and NBC News   reported , the suspect in the federal case against Whitmer’s alleged wannabe kidnappers appeared in at least one video in a Hawaiian shirt, a trademark of the  Boogaloo Movement  obsessed with sparking the next civil war. Unlike some of your typical far-right militia diehards, this crowd at least sometimes purports to be concerned with law-enforcement excesses, and even take a special interest—as some Michigan suspects allegedly did—in killing cops. Boogaloo members have been   arrested or implicated   in an array of attacks and schemes in recents months, from an   alleged plot to help Hamas   to another to destroy federal infrastructure to actual cop killings.

A federal law-enforcement official told NBC News the seven “Wolverine Watchmen” at the center of the state case were Boogaloo affiliated. But the outlet also cited Caserta pivoting swiftly from Joe Rogan fandom to pandemic conspiracy.

If you’re having a tough time keeping track of the various fringe and far-right affiliations here, you’re not alone. The Trump era has long brought out the crazy, but the early indicators are that the Whitmer case was stoked by a sort of witches brew of far-right ideologies that have flourished on his watch. Sure enough, the president actually tweeted half-defensively about the plot against Whitmer late Thursday, insisting he was against “extreme violence” while basically stoking more ire for a governor who has gotten to him like few others.

“This is just another example of how these anti-government groups get agitated and invigorated when you have a president calling them to action,” Daryl Johnson, a former Department of Homeland Security analyst of far-right extremism, told The Daily Beast.

The precise nature of the affiliations of the defendants in the Whitmer saga is still coming into focus. Some of their activity appeared to be little more sophisticated than angry men firing guns and driving their neighbors insane.

“They thought it was a meth house because there was trash blowing all over the place,” one Munith, Michigan, resident who requested anonymity for fear of reprisal said of fellow residents’ impression of a home inhabited by two suspects, Joseph Morrison and Pete Musico , tied to the “Wolverine Watchmen” case. Both are charged with terrorism, gang membership, providing material support for terrorist acts, and firearms felonies.

Social profiles tied to Musico showed interest in everything from bogus memes that white people are being slaughtered in South Africa to far-right Proud Boys to anti-Semitism to Alex Jones.

In other cases, people who knew the suspects struggled to make sense of what they described, at least, as a seemingly rapid descent into radicalization.

“I’m very surprised because he’s just not like that,” R. Miller, a neighbor of 38-year-old state terrorism suspect Shawn Fix, Told The Daily Beast late Thursday, adding, “Maybe [he] got mixed up with the wrong people and that changed his way of thinking.”

As the suspects’ cases proceed, more will inevitably come to light about just how they appear to have become infatuated with far-right violence, and why a pandemic lockdown loathed by millions allegedly drove them to terrorism. What we already know, experts said, is that this climate is incredibly inviting to this sort of fringe descent—and a disturbing run-up to an election widely expected to feature far-right violence is officially underway.

“We’re at a heightened state of risk right now and that’s my greatest concern, that these groups that have been carrying guns to protests end up shooting,” Johnson said.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2  author  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

Trumpism taken to its next level. 

You can bet 100% of these guys are Trump supporters. 

=================================================================

Jim Sciutto
@jimsciutto
·
7m
This is deeply alarming: “...the conspirators twice conducted surveillance at Whitmer 's vacation home and discussed kidnapping her to a remote location in Wisconsin to stand "trial" for treason prior to the Nov. 3 election.”
 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @2    2 weeks ago
Molly Jong-Fast
@MollyJongFast
·
17m
Remember when Trump and Trumpworld spent months threatening governor Whitmer ? I do.
 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
2.1.1  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    2 weeks ago
Remember when Trump and Trumpworld spent months threatening governor Whitmer ? I do.

So do I.  I still haven't recovered from Trump calling her 'that woman.' 

Regarding the kidnapping plot, watch Trump say, "I don't know these people, I've never met these people, but I hear that they like me.  That's important."

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @2.1.1    2 weeks ago

Considering the level of coverage this will get in Michigan, and national, media, this probably puts an end to any hope Trump had of winning Michigan. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
2.1.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.2    2 weeks ago

Not quite sure about that John. There is a multitude of people that got pissed with her for her Draconian shut down rules. Like no veggy seeds or plants to be sold. We shall see for sure in 26 days

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.3    2 weeks ago

Trump is already losing in the polls in the state. What is your theory that news of a plotted violent takeover of the state government would be beneficial in winning Trump the undecideds there ? 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.4    2 weeks ago

I's sure the majority of Michigan citizens would like to see her gone, for all the stupidity she displayed.

You seemingly don't understand how normal people feel and think.

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.6  Split Personality  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.2    2 weeks ago

Are you kidding?

They will have to re-elect him so he can pardon these clowns.

/s

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.7  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.5    2 weeks ago

I would suggest to you that you read 2.1.4 again, because that it is the answer. 

 
 
 
Kavika
2.1.8  Kavika   replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.3    2 weeks ago
There is a multitude of people that got pissed with her for her Draconian shut down rules. Like no veggy seeds or plants to be sold. We shall see for sure in 26 days

She has a 59% approval rating, so a few people must approve of her handling of the virus.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/09/michigan-voters-approve-gretchen-whitmer-handling-pandemic-poll-finds/5750849002/

 
 
 
Kavika
2.1.9  Kavika   replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.5    2 weeks ago
I's sure the majority of Michigan citizens would like to see her gone, for all the stupidity she displayed. You seemingly don't understand how normal people feel and think.

She has a 59% approval rating on her handling of the corona virus. So which majority are you talking about?

You don't seem to have a good grip on facts pertaining to MI or Whitmer.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
2.1.10  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Kavika @2.1.8    2 weeks ago

Yeah and I have been contacted in two polls in the last 3 weeks and told them I was voting for Biden. And trust me, I am sure I am NOT alone. You can believe polls but I don't. Again, we shall see.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1.11  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.10    2 weeks ago

What if people intend to vote for Biden but are telling polls they are for Trump? 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.1.12  r.t..b...  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.5    2 weeks ago

If true, normal people will back an opposition candidate and appropriately use the ballot box to facilitate change.
Only the abnormal would think for a millisecond that a kidnapping would accomplish the same result.
Another non-denial of the ludicrous and incendiary nature of this ‘plot’ will not help sway any votes. 

 
 
 
Kavika
2.1.13  Kavika   replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.10    2 weeks ago
I am sure I am NOT alone.

I'm sure that you're not, some friends and I do the same every time we are surveyed, we say Trump.

 
 
 
Sparty On
2.1.14  Sparty On  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.6    2 weeks ago
They will have to re-elect him so he can pardon these clowns.

Never happen, if they plotted what they allegedly plotted but if it helps for you to think it would, by all means keep thinning that .....

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.1.15  Bob Nelson  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.11    2 weeks ago

That's a good question. 

I suspect that there are some repentant 2016 Trump voters who are embarrassed to tell their Trumpist friends and neighbors that they've realized how badly their Glorious Leader has been screwing them. They have spent four years exchanging Trumpist slogans, and now they don't know how to say "We've been bamboozled!"

I don't know how many they are, but they could swing some results. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
2.1.16  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.15    2 weeks ago
I suspect that there are some repentant 2016 Trump voters who are embarrassed to tell their Trumpist friends and neighbors that they've realized how badly their Glorious Leader has been screwing them. They have spent four years exchanging Trumpist slogans, and now they don't know how to say "We've been bamboozled!"

More nonsensical rants from the hive .....  a charcuterie of crazed leftist narrative to be sure

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.1.17  Bob Nelson  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.16    2 weeks ago

We'll see, in just a few weeks... 

 
 
 
devangelical
2.1.18  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.6    2 weeks ago

I hope they get their maga hats back, in about 50 years ...

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
2.1.19  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.3    2 weeks ago

Just Jim NC TttH:  Anyone that supports, promoting, or believe that this is acceptable is a threat to this nation and should be treated as a potential domestic TERRORIST.

Armed, under-educated, RIGHT-WING MILITIA GROUPS, regardless of the name that they appropriate to justify their illegal proceedings, are essentially criminals.


 
 
 
Sparty On
2.1.20  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.17    2 weeks ago

True dat, if Trump wins it will probably be time to hunker down .... the left will likely implode and refuse to accept the result.    Biden has already alluded to as much.

It's going to get sporty if that happens but it won't end like many on the left think it will.

Not even close ....

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.1.21  Bob Nelson  replied to  Eat The Press Do Not Read It @2.1.19    2 weeks ago

Violence is perfectly acceptable to fascists... as long as it is directed against democracy. 

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
2.1.22  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.16    2 weeks ago

It is time that these childish, angry Militia Rats be shut down once and for all. They are not PATRIOTIC. They are red necks, hopped up on their rage, drugs, moonshine, and a life of self-imposed misery.

HATERS have always been with us. These dimwitted morons, like the Oklahoma bombers, will be destroyed, jail, and/or executed as TRAITORS.

They are as delusional as school serial murderers. There is no ideology in PURE HATE, repressed jealousy.

What is the difference between these killers that the Jihadists killed over 3000 Americans on 9/11!


 
 
 
Sparty On
2.1.23  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.21    2 weeks ago

True, we've been seeing it in large quantities in some of our big cities for months now ..... more or less non-stop, fascist violence

 
 
 
Sparty On
2.1.24  Sparty On  replied to  Eat The Press Do Not Read It @2.1.22    2 weeks ago
HATERS have always been with us. These dimwitted morons, like the Oklahoma bombers, will be destroyed, jail, and/or executed as TRAITORS.

I agree .... jail all antifa pukes ..... toot sweet!   But i'm fine with execution as well since you brought it up .....

 
 
 
pat wilson
2.1.25  pat wilson  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.16    2 weeks ago
charcuterie

A plate of cold meat and cheeses ?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
2.1.26  Sean Treacy  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.21    2 weeks ago
iolence is perfectly acceptable to fascists... as long as it is directed against democracy

.  A party whose VP candidate paid for terrorists bail money has truly embraced violence.  This summer's months long celebration and rationalization of daily violence by the left has been very illuminating. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
2.1.27  Sparty On  replied to  pat wilson @2.1.25    2 weeks ago

Liked that literary device did ya?

 
 
 
dennis smith
2.1.28  dennis smith  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.11    2 weeks ago

The reverse is also true and it happens when polls are taken. See 2016 election for evidence.

 
 
 
pat wilson
2.1.29  pat wilson  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.27    2 weeks ago

Using a word erroniously is not a literary device. Maybe you meant "cornucopia".

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
2.1.30  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.11    2 weeks ago
What if people intend to vote for Biden but are telling polls they are for Trump? 

Some will, some won't. Not in my control............nor yours........except on a personal level and whomever you can convince to get on the Never Trump train. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
2.1.31  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Eat The Press Do Not Read It @2.1.19    2 weeks ago

Don't disagree with you. I was pointing out that JR shouldn't rely on his crystal ball and abacus just yet or Ouija board to predict Michigan. 

I guess some like to read things into what is typed so they can argue with the air. 

 
 
 
JaneDoe
2.1.32  JaneDoe  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.10    2 weeks ago

I did a little of that in the last election. I swear sometimes I would get 2 calls a day. Once they know you are willing to participate they will keep calling you and it gets to be too much! So I would switch up my answers and have a little fun.

 
 
 
Sparty On
2.1.33  Sparty On  replied to  pat wilson @2.1.29    2 weeks ago

Meh, i guess Allegory isn't for everyone but fine.   Cornucopia works as well but in a more literal sense.  

Feel free to use that in your applicable posts.   I'll stick with my original intent.

 
 
 
MAGA
2.1.34  MAGA  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    2 weeks ago

See 1.3.  

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.35  Dulay  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.16    2 weeks ago
charcuterie

Yum. 

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2.1.36  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.24    2 weeks ago
toot sweet!

We'll pardon your French.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
2.1.37  SteevieGee  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.5    2 weeks ago

The majority of Michiganders elected her.  They know how to get rid of her if they want.  I'm pretty sure the majority of Michiganders don't want these guys.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
2.1.38  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  pat wilson @2.1.25    2 weeks ago
A plate of cold meat and cheeses ?

I didn't realize I was hungry until just now. (After I had to look up the meaning and then saw the Harry and David Gourmet offerings...)

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1.39  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.11    2 weeks ago

You know I think that is really messed up. Now fake-outs on polls is a game? 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1.40  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.20    2 weeks ago
It's going to get sporty if that happens but it won't end like many on the left think it will. Not even close ....

What does that mean?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
2.1.41  Trout Giggles  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.39    2 weeks ago

Doesn't the teacher in you want to tell them to grow up?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
2.1.42  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.39    2 weeks ago

Okay I would like to have you answer this. Just what is the harm?

 
 
 
cjcold
2.1.43  cjcold  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    2 weeks ago

Only in far right wing Trumpworld could a governor be trashed for attempting to keep her constituents safe from a lethal disease.

 
 
 
cjcold
2.1.45  cjcold  replied to  cjcold @2.1.43    2 weeks ago

The whole thing happened due to her being on the VP shortlist.

This is what the far right wing has come to.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2    2 weeks ago

She is not fit to be governor

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.2.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2    2 weeks ago

Voters seem to disagree... 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.1    2 weeks ago

You mean voters count?  So it's not simply about removing people some don't like?

Got it!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.2.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.2    2 weeks ago

Vic,

In local elections, voters count.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.2.3    2 weeks ago

Perrie,

They count in national elections too!

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3  Sean Treacy    2 weeks ago

So, per our liberal friends, they are mostly peaceful protesters.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    2 weeks ago

When was the last time you posted a comment that didnt involve whataboutism ? 

 
 
 
Sparty On
3.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 weeks ago

That's is hilarious coming from you John.  

Very jocular!

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.1.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 weeks ago

Maybe the last time you took a consistent position on a topic?

so is it opposing  kidnapping but supporting the use of Molotov cocktails now? Is that the position of the  day?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.3  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.2    2 weeks ago

when have i supported the use of molotov cocktails? you seem to be confused. 

 
 
 
MAGA
3.1.4  MAGA  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.1    2 weeks ago

Exactly!  Well said.  

 
 
 
cjcold
3.2  cjcold  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    2 weeks ago

It has been documented that proud boys and boogaloo instigated all violence and destruction.

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
4  Release The Kraken    2 weeks ago

So they actually didn't kidnap anyone? So why are they in jail. Bad thoughts?

Imagine if we locked up lefties for orange man bad assassination threats? We'd have members of this site and Most of Hollywood in prison.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Release The Kraken @4    2 weeks ago

I guess you will have to try and read the news stories about it. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
4.2  Drakkonis  replied to  Release The Kraken @4    2 weeks ago
So they actually didn't kidnap anyone?

Conspiracy to kidnap. We should be glad they caught them. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Drakkonis @4.2    2 weeks ago

thank you for the level head

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.3  Tacos!  replied to  Release The Kraken @4    2 weeks ago
So they actually didn't kidnap anyone? So why are they in jail. Bad thoughts?

This is where "just talking shit" turns into a crime:

The group met for field exercises and training this year and conducted surveillance of the  the governor's vacation home on at least two occasions in late August and September, the affidavit alleges.

A conspiracy is a sort of a crime without the act - what is known as an "inchoate" crime. However, it is more than just talking about committing a crime. If that were the case most of the country would be in jail.

When you take a step - even a small one - toward actually doing the act (aka "an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy"), then you can be prosecuted because your criminal intent has been revealed.

If they had actually kidnapped her, they could be charged with both kidnapping and conspiracy to commit kidnapping.

 
 
 
Sparty On
5  Sparty On    2 weeks ago

Not a surprise.

She's pissed a shitload of people off with her "shotgun style" totalitarian policies.

But don't take my word for it:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/michigan-supreme-court-strikes-down-governors-virus-orders/2020/10/02/acb6d256-04fa-11eb-b92e-029676f9ebec_story.html

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
5.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Sparty On @5    2 weeks ago

Yup. 

That certainly justifies a violent takeover. 

Yup... 

 
 
 
Sparty On
5.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @5.1    2 weeks ago

Yup. 

That certainly justifies a violent takeover. 

Yup... 

Yup ... your words not mine ..... yup .....

 
 
 
Ronin2
5.1.2  Ronin2  replied to  Bob Nelson @5.1    2 weeks ago

13 people is a violent take over? That is almost as dumb as they were. These idiots were several bricks short of a full load. Kidnap the governor and take her to Wisconsin for a secret trial. What the hell would that accomplish? Still would have a Democratic despot in charge of the Governorship, Secretary of States Office, and the AG of Michigan. Better still they were planning on doing this in several states, not just Michigan. They should be thankful they were caught; it prevented them from committing assisted suicide.

What they should have done is organized a "mostly peaceful protest" claimed a bunch of invisible far left outside agitators turned it into a riot; and burned Lansing to the ground- throwing in a good portion of looting, vandalism, assault, and maybe a few killings along the way. As per the Democrats "They are just angry, they have a right to be angry" That is the acceptable form of doing things.

.

 
 
 
MrFrost
5.2  MrFrost  replied to  Sparty On @5    2 weeks ago
She's pissed a shitload of people off with her "shotgun style" totalitarian policies.

So it's her fault these turds tried to kidnap her... Got it. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
5.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @5.2    2 weeks ago

That's like blaming the survivor of a rape

 
 
 
Sparty On
5.2.2  Sparty On  replied to  MrFrost @5.2    2 weeks ago

First of all I’ll believe “tried” when I see proof of tried.    A mass media that clearly has forgotten what unbiased journalism is, is not the best source for that.    Second, she is just as responsible for her words as the TDS ridden left regularly accuses Trump of being.

Got it?

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.2    2 weeks ago

So victim blaming.  GOT IT.

 
 
 
Sparty On
5.2.4  Sparty On  replied to  Tessylo @5.2.3    2 weeks ago
So victim blaming.  GOT IT.

Nah, you don’t “got it” otherwise you wouldn’t regularly DO IT.

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.4    2 weeks ago

No, I got your number.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
5.2.6  Sparty On  replied to  Tessylo @5.2.5    2 weeks ago

Nah, like usual you’ve got nothing in that regard .... not a thing but ..... SOSDD considering.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6  author  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

Ej0hREyWoAES6Qk?format=jpg&name=medium

Don Thomas
@donovanmthomas
·
1h
A group of nimwits took this joker literally and tried to come for Big Gretch . Just dangerous.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
6.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago
A group of nimwits

Is that a dimwitted nimrod?

Nimrod: noun - an inept person

Dimwit: noun - a stupid or silly person

Urban Dictionary: Nimwit: noun - A slackjawed moron who self righteously complains and whines

I guess the Urban dictionary does nail many of those taking Trump seriously or literally and who support his insane rhetoric.

 
 
 
devangelical
6.2  devangelical  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago

used AR-15's for sale cheap. only been dropped once. make offer. contact local tea party field marshal.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
6.2.1  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  devangelical @6.2    2 weeks ago
used AR-15's for sale cheap. only been dropped once.

That's my boy!

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
6.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago
tried to come for Big Gretch

They did? Seems to me it was a bunch of drunk bastards with a problem.....................oh, and "plotting". Key word.

 
 
 
Tessylo
6.3.1  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @6.3    2 weeks ago
"tried to come for Big Gretch"

"They did? Seems to me it was a bunch of drunk bastards with a problem.....................oh, and "plotting". Key word."

. . . . oh, and "conspiracy".  Key word

In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future. Criminal law in some countries or for some conspiracies may require that at least one overt act be undertaken in furtherance of that agreement, to constitute an offense.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
6.4  Ozzwald  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago
A group of nimwits took this joker literally and tried to come for Big Gretch . Just dangerous.

I keep waiting for a civil suit against Trump for encouraging all these criminal activities.  What's going to happen when the Proud Boys are done "standing by"?

 
 
 
lady in black
7  lady in black    2 weeks ago

This is Barry Croft:

safe_image.php?d=AQCwtgIglp0qfWJY&w=750&h=391&url=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.radio.com%2Faiu-media%2Ftesh-4f03bcae-e072-45b9-abb8-441f73bae9de.jpg&cfs=1&sx=0&sy=0&sw=740&sh=386&ext=jpg&_nc_cb=1&_nc_hash=AQBZFDjjQgg9uouu

 
 
 
JohnRussell
7.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  lady in black @7    2 weeks ago

These are the ideological godchildren of Timothy McVeigh. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  lady in black @7    2 weeks ago

He looks stupid enough to do this... 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
7.2.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.2    2 weeks ago

Just another balding incel white supremacist moron.

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
7.2.2  Release The Kraken  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.2.1    2 weeks ago

He'd be a real catch for some of the slobs here.

 
 
 
Sparty On
7.2.3  Sparty On  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.2.1    2 weeks ago

See there go ... bagging on bald people.

Just can't help yourself can you....

 
 
 
Sparty On
7.2.4  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.2    2 weeks ago

Pictures can be deceiving:

384

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.2.5  Tacos!  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.2.1    2 weeks ago
Just another balding incel white supremacist moron.

Unexpected! I didn't realize there was a connection between politics and male pattern baldness.

I wonder which is the chicken and which is the egg? Does having hair prevent you from being a white supremacist? Or is balding a sign that you are trending toward the dark side?

And what does it mean that I shave my head?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
7.2.6  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Release The Kraken @7.2.2    2 weeks ago
He'd be a real catch for some of the slobs here.

You shouldn't be so cruel to your fellow right wing conservatives.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
7.2.7  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Tacos! @7.2.5    2 weeks ago
I didn't realize there was a connection between politics and male pattern baldness.

There isn't, the connection is to the involuntarily celibate. If there's any connection it's that young white males get angry and frustrated with being involuntarily celibate (often due to their right wing extremist conspiracy theory politics). Most women don't want to be with small minded poorly educated right wing bigots, especially the ones that are already balding by the time they're 25. That of course becomes a vicious cycle because these nut jobs get rejected and hole themselves up clutching their AR-15's and blaming their virginity and their violent anger towards women on "the left" and all those lesbians "stealing" their supposed women and the immigrants supposedly "stealing" their jobs.

 
 
 
lady in black
7.2.8  lady in black  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.2.7    2 weeks ago

Here are more mug shots:  They all have that incel look

Adam Fox

Whitmer-Suspect-KENT-COUNTY-JAIL-4.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Brandon Caserta

Whitmer-Suspect-KENT-COUNTY-JAIL-5.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Kaleb Franks

Whitmer-Suspect-KENT-COUNTY-JAIL-3.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Daniel Harris

Whitmer-Suspect-KENT-COUNTY-JAIL-2.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Ty Garbin

Whitmer-Suspect-KENT-COUNTY-JAIL-1.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.2.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.2.7    2 weeks ago
Most women don't want to be with small minded poorly educated right wing bigots... 

Gee... 

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
7.2.10  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Tacos! @7.2.5    2 weeks ago
And what does it mean that I shave my head?

Pics or it just ain't true.

 
 
 
devangelical
8  devangelical    2 weeks ago

meh, those right wing domestic terrorists are all talk and harmless ...           /s

 
 
 
Sparty On
8.1  Sparty On  replied to  devangelical @8    2 weeks ago

Cool, then what's the left worried about? ...... /s

 
 
 
Ozzwald
8.2  Ozzwald  replied to  devangelical @8    2 weeks ago
meh, those right wing domestic terrorists are all talk and harmless ...  

And Trump did say it was only ANTIFA doing all of this violent crap.

 
 
 
Ronin2
8.2.1  Ronin2  replied to  Ozzwald @8.2    2 weeks ago

Still can't tell the difference between plotting to do something; and actually going out and doing it?

 
 
 
Tessylo
8.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  Ronin2 @8.2.1    2 weeks ago

Just because they didn't/weren't able to carry it out, doesn't mean they can't be found guilty for conspiring to do it.  

 
 
 
Dulay
8.2.3  Dulay  replied to  Ronin2 @8.2.1    2 weeks ago

So is it your ridiculous posit that the FBI should have WAITED for them to carry out their plan before they arrested them? 

If NOT, WTF is your point. 

 
 
 
Kavika
8.2.4  Kavika   replied to  Ronin2 @8.2.1    2 weeks ago

 They are being charged with terror-related acts, among other things. 

The feds seem to take that plotting thing quite seriously. 

 
 
 
pat wilson
8.2.5  pat wilson  replied to  Ronin2 @8.2.1    2 weeks ago

Criminal Conspiracy Is a Serious Crime

Planning a crime by oneself is different than planning a crime with an accomplice, or group. Generally, when there is more than one person involved, and there is a plan to commit a crime, then under the law, there is a criminal conspiracy .

In addition to any criminal acts committed by anyone in the conspiracy, a person involved in a criminal conspiracy will likely be looking at serious felony charges and jail time. Also, if you just are just helping, or were planning to help, you could potentially be liable as an accomplice , even when a crime fails to be completed.

https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2017/03/when-is-it-a-crime-to-plan-a-crime.html

This is a very informative website.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
8.2.6  Ozzwald  replied to  Ronin2 @8.2.1    2 weeks ago

Still can't tell the difference between plotting to do something; and actually going out and doing it?

  • In America, conspiring to commit a crime, is also a crime.
  • In America, you don't have to wait until the crime has occurred if you have sufficient evidence to show the suspects have taken steps towards committing a crime.
  • In America, if police stop you in the middle of a bank robbery, before you get the money, YOU HAVE STILL COMMITTED THE CRIME.

You seemed confused about how law enforcement and criminal justice works, hope this helps your understanding.

 
 
 
Tessylo
8.2.7  Tessylo  replied to  Ronin2 @8.2.1    2 weeks ago
"Still can't tell the difference between plotting to do something; and actually going out and doing it?"
In case you missed it the first time:
In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future. Criminal law in some countries or for some conspiracies may require that at least one overt act be undertaken in furtherance of that agreement, to constitute an offense.

 
 
 
Tessylo
8.2.8  Tessylo  replied to  pat wilson @8.2.5    2 weeks ago

"Criminal Conspiracy Is a Serious Crime

Planning a crime by oneself is different than planning a crime with an accomplice, or group. Generally, when there is more than one person involved, and there is a plan to commit a crime, then under the law,   there is a criminal conspiracy   .

In addition to any criminal acts committed by anyone in the conspiracy, a person involved in a criminal conspiracy will likely be looking at serious felony charges and jail time. Also, if you just are just helping, or were planning to help, you could potentially   be liable as an accomplice   , even when a crime fails to be completed.

https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2017/03/when-is-it-a-crime-to-plan-a-crime.html

This is a very informative website."

FACTS/SHMACTS!

 
 
 
Tacos!
9  Tacos!    2 weeks ago

I think Gretchen is kinda hot - for a politician. I'd kidnap her. But you know, in the good way.

 
 
 
MrFrost
9.1  MrFrost  replied to  Tacos! @9    2 weeks ago

I agree, for a politician she is easy on the eyes. 

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
9.1.1  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  MrFrost @9.1    2 weeks ago
I agree, for a politician she is easy on the eyes. 

I love ya, but...jrSmiley_32_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
10  Trout Giggles    2 weeks ago

My question is....what gives them the right to try an elected official in a kangaroo court? Do they realize that they might have faced a federal capital murder charge if they had executed her? And the federal government still has the death penalty

 
 
 
Tessylo
10.1  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @10    2 weeks ago

Their IQ is in the single digits?  Not much thinking going on there.  

 
 
 
MUVA
10.2  MUVA  replied to  Trout Giggles @10    2 weeks ago

Ask Nancy that question.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
10.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  MUVA @10.2    2 weeks ago

are you making shit up again?

 
 
 
Dulay
10.2.2  Dulay  replied to  MUVA @10.2    2 weeks ago
Ask Nancy that question.

If you referring to Nancy Pelosi, her answer would be the Constitution. 

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
10.3  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Trout Giggles @10    2 weeks ago
And the federal government still has the death penalty

Maybe they were/are counting on Trump to pardon them.

 
 
 
Kavika
11  Kavika     2 weeks ago

Latest update on this case.

13 charged in plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer

https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/2020/10/08/6-people-charged-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer/

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
12  Release The Kraken    2 weeks ago

ROFL: the ring leader Brandon Caserta is a anarcho communist. Check him out on youtube!  Ooops, who's gonna post his bail?  Act blue?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
12.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Release The Kraken @12    2 weeks ago

Why would a communist want to follow the U.S. Constitution ? 

“The group talked about creating a society that followed the U.S. Bill of Rights and where they could be self-sufficient,” the FBI affidavit said. “They discussed different ways of achieving this goal from peaceful endeavors to violent actions. ... Several members talked about murdering ‘tyrants’ or ‘taking’ a sitting governor.”
 
 
 
Ronin2
12.1.1  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @12.1    2 weeks ago

Can't be a communist and be alt right John!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
12.1.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @12.1.1    2 weeks ago

www.dailymail.co.uk   /news/article-8820147/FBI-arrest-five-people-plot-kill-Michigan-Gov-Gretchen-Whitmer.html

13 arrested over plot to kidnap Gov. Gretchen and start civil war

Jennifer Smith
14-18 minutes

Thirteen men including seven from a right-wing militia known as Wolverine Watchmen have been arrested over two alleged plots to kidnap Michigan's Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer and incite a 'civil war'. 

Six of the men were taken into custody in a raid on a house in suburban Detroit on Thursday morning. They have been named as Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, Brandon Caserta and 24-year-old Ty Garbin. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
12.1.3  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @12.1.2    2 weeks ago

Keep blaring it up there John, then watch the youtube videos I posted. The leader was an Antifa nut job!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
12.1.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @12.1.3    2 weeks ago

I suppose that will be sorted out as it goes along.   The news story says the Wolverine Watchmen are a right wing group , and they ARE implicated.  Sorry your plans to blame it on the left have been dashed .

 
 
 
Ronin2
12.1.5  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @12.1.4    2 weeks ago

Sorry, but no matter how hard the media spins it- there is no denying the leader is an Antifa POS.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
12.1.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @12.1.2    2 weeks ago

Maybe he's confused about communism, fascism, and all those other isms. He looks like the kind of guy who played hooky during Problems of Democracy class

 
 
 
cjcold
12.1.7  cjcold  replied to  Ronin2 @12.1.1    2 weeks ago

Actually, Putin now owns the alt. right.

 
 
 
Ronin2
12.2  Ronin2  replied to  Release The Kraken @12    2 weeks ago

Definitely a far rightwing. Was that an Antifa flag behind him?

Looking less and less far right, and more Antifa loving radical. Could the media have got it wrong yet again?

This is almost too funny.  Maybe the media needs to do better research.

Far right wing extremist that is anti police and anti constitution sporting an Antifa flag as a prominent decoration for his videos. Hope someone smacks Whitless over the head with this.

 
 
 
Kathleen
12.2.1  Kathleen  replied to  Ronin2 @12.2    2 weeks ago

You won’t see that on CNN or MSNBC. 

 
 
 
Dulay
12.2.2  Dulay  replied to  Ronin2 @12.2    2 weeks ago

Brandon is just a worker bee, a warm body, fodder...

 
 
 
Ronin2
12.2.3  Ronin2  replied to  Dulay @12.2.2    2 weeks ago

Right, denial is very strong in the left these days. I guess Antifa must be a alt right org now?/S

 
 
 
Kathleen
12.2.4  Kathleen  replied to  Ronin2 @12.2.3    2 weeks ago

Unbelievable. 

 
 
 
Dulay
12.2.5  Dulay  replied to  Ronin2 @12.2.3    2 weeks ago
Right, denial is very strong in the left these days. I guess Antifa must be a alt right org now?/S

What exactly are you alleging is being denied? 

Am I the one denying the FACT that the Commander of the Wolverine Watchman is a Trump supporter as proven by his 2016 AND his 2020 social media posts?

Am I the one denying the FACT that Musico and Morrison fly the Stars and Bars outside of the home?

Am I the one denying the FACT that the Wolverine Watchmen are affiliated with the Boogaloo Boys? 

Or is that YOU. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
12.2.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ronin2 @12.2    2 weeks ago

Did you consider that perhaps he hooked up with these alt right wingers because he wanted to hurt someone and they had the muscle to get it done? He's definitely looking for attention.

I swear, the far right and the ultra left are so similar in their tactics that sometimes they're indistinguishable 

 
 
 
MUVA
12.2.7  MUVA  replied to  Trout Giggles @12.2.6    2 weeks ago

Exactly that is why it is ludicrous to think they are tied to one party or to civil society they are outliers you are catching on.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
12.2.8  r.t..b...  replied to  Kathleen @12.2.4    2 weeks ago

What is unbelievable is how the discussion has devolved into how any anti-anything random idiots are routinely excused their actions. 
Their sort are really the really the only winners these daze as this administration has overtly given them a venue to not only verbally express, but actually plot against anything we should all hold dear. 
Remember where we were four years ago as a democracy and just imagine what may be further deteriorated should it be given our tacit approval. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
12.2.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  MUVA @12.2.7    2 weeks ago

I've always known that. (deleted)

 
 
 
Kathleen
12.2.10  Kathleen  replied to  r.t..b... @12.2.8    2 weeks ago

When you look at the big picture, of course.  I believe people are responsible for their own behavior. I am not one for blaming a persons actions because they think they had a perfect opportunity to do it. I do not excuse anyone for criminal behavior. I do think that they need to look into things and find out what is true and not. That was why I said unbelievable. Trying to kidnap anyone is a serious crime.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
12.2.11  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Kathleen @12.2.10    2 weeks ago

I'm still trying to figure out who is "routinely excusing their actions".

 
 
 
r.t..b...
12.2.12  r.t..b...  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @12.2.11    2 weeks ago

“Good people on both sides”

”Stand Back and Stand By”

...and all the wink, wink, nudge, nudge, between the line dog whistling that this administration has perfected. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
12.2.13  Kathleen  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @12.2.11    2 weeks ago

Me too, we are more less trying to figure out who is responsible and where they come from. Who is thinking it is okay to kidnap her?

 
 
 
Dulay
12.2.14  Dulay  replied to  Kathleen @12.2.13    2 weeks ago

We know who is responsible and where they came from. The Governor, Michigan State Police and the FBI made all of that clear. 

BTW, instead of denouncing armed militias yesterday, Trump decried 'Antifa, Biden and Democrats' , said Whitmer was doing a terrible job and demanded that she open up the state. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
12.2.15  Kathleen  replied to  Dulay @12.2.14    2 weeks ago

I was talking about who on here was condoning her kidnaping. I am sure more information will surface. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
12.2.16  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Ronin2 @12.2    2 weeks ago
sporting an Antifa flag as a prominent decoration for his videos

That is an "Anarchy" flag that's been around for decades.

These are Antifa flags when you do a Google search:

Antifa_flag_red_background.png

220px-Patriot_Prayer_vs_Antifa_protests._Photo_11_of_14_%2825095096398%29.jpg

The "A" is for anarchy. The flag behind Caserta is the classic anarchist flag that's been around long before Antifa was even a movement.

I watched all three videos you linked and not one of them claims any association to Antifa and in fact everything he says is pure right wing anarchist that fits perfectly with right wing groups like the Boogaloo bois who are "a loosely organized far-right, anti-government , and extremist political movement in the United States."

Your attempt to tie this nut ball anarchist to Antifa is dishonest and ridiculous, at least based on the links you provide. If there is some other actual evidence he's part of the Antifa movement you should present that. Now, that doesn't absolve individuals in the Antifa movement that have committed crimes and should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but your claims trying to link this idiot anarchist to their movement is weak and spurious and obviously just a defense and deflection to divert attention from right wing extremist groups. Is that because you secretly agree with right wing extremist groups like the Proud Boys and Boogaloo bois who are seeking to start another civil war? Or do you just not feel threatened by them because they don't seem to be targeting other white right wing conservative Christians?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
12.2.18  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sunshine @12.2.17    2 weeks ago

Again, that is an anarchist flag. You posting someone carrying it at some riot or protest does not change that fact. We know for a fact that many infiltrators and instigators joined in these protests to create havoc and simply fight against any government control, both left and right.

" The black flag first became associated with anarchism in the 1880s. The French anarchist paper, Le Drapeau Noir (The Black Flag), which existed until 1882, is one of the first published references to use black as an anarchist color. Black International was the name of a London anarchist group founded in July 1881."

The circle-A is almost certainly the best-known present-day symbol for anarchy. It is a monogram that consists of the capital letter "A" surrounded by the capital letter "O". The letter "A" is derived from the first letter of "anarchy" or "anarchism" in most European languages and is the same in both Latin and Cyrillic scripts. The "O" stands for order and together they stand for "society seeks order in anarchy" (French: la société cherche l'ordre dans l'anarchie ), a phrase written by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in his 1840 book What Is Property?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_symbolism

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
12.2.19  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @12.2.18    2 weeks ago

Both of your comments are going to leave a mark....and probably running to the bathroom for a good cry

 
 
 
Sunshine
12.2.20  Sunshine  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @12.2.18    2 weeks ago
We know for a fact that many infiltrators and instigators joined in these protests to create havoc and simply fight against any government control, both left and right.

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
12.2.21  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @12.2.11    2 weeks ago
"I'm still trying to figure out who is "routinely excusing their actions"."

Look no further than the 'president' and a majority of his supporters.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
12.2.22  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen @12.2.15    2 weeks ago
"I was talking about who on here was condoning her kidnaping. I am sure more information will surface."

Look no further than the 'president' and many of his supporters.  

 
 
 
Sunshine
12.2.24  Sunshine  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @12.2.23    2 weeks ago

Does he look like a white supremacists to you?

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
12.2.25  Tessylo  replied to  Sunshine @12.2.20    2 weeks ago

Not stupid shit . . . TRUTH

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
12.2.26  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  MUVA @12.2.7    2 weeks ago
they are outliers

Without looking, define outliers.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
12.2.27  Bob Nelson  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @12.2.26    2 weeks ago
Without looking

You're being cruel. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
12.2.28  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @12.2.24    2 weeks ago

So now people have to look like the way you want them to look before you believe that they are what they say they are?

 
 
 
cjcold
12.2.29  cjcold  replied to  Ronin2 @12.2.3    2 weeks ago

Somebody has to stand up to the far right wing Nazi fascists. 

Interesting how so many here are Russian bots and Nazi fascists.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
12.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Release The Kraken @12    2 weeks ago

384

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
12.3.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @12.3    2 weeks ago

And they're skwary!

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
12.4  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Release The Kraken @12    2 weeks ago
Check him out on youtube!

I like the black bloc anarchy flag behind him in his videos....

a sure sign of a "rightwinger...  LOL

 
 
 
Kavika
13  Kavika     2 weeks ago

Some background information on the Wolverine Watchmen, the milta group that are now facing very serious charges. 

Love the photo of them flying the Confederate flag.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-we-know-about-wolverine-watchmen-accused-of-terror-kidnap-plot-against-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer

 
 
 
Sunshine
14  Sunshine    2 weeks ago

They would bring her back after a few hours.

 
 
 
MrFrost
14.1  MrFrost  replied to  Sunshine @14    2 weeks ago

Or murder her. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
14.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @14.1    2 weeks ago

That's what I think they would do. But some people would probably celebrate that

 
 
 
Tessylo
14.2  Tessylo  replied to  Sunshine @14    2 weeks ago

"They would bring her back after a few hours."

So that would make it all okay?  No harm done?

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
14.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tessylo @14.2    2 weeks ago

Well, she is a liberal democrat so kidnapping is ok, doesn't matter it's a federal offense

 
 
 
pat wilson
14.3  pat wilson  replied to  Sunshine @14    2 weeks ago

Riiiiiggghhhtt

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
15  Hal A. Lujah    2 weeks ago

Waiting for the Commander in Thief to proclaim that these guys got a raw deal, and then berate the FBI for wasting time protecting a nasty leftie governor when they should be arresting Obama and Joe Biden.  Very unfair!!

 
 
 
cjcold
15.1  cjcold  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @15    2 weeks ago

Seems Hillary is still on Trump's radar. She is still much smarter.

 
 
 
bbl-1
16  bbl-1    2 weeks ago

Hard to imagine that;   'Birtherism---"I'm like a really smart guy"---"I'm really rich and I'll fund my own campaign"---to---"When you're a star you can do anything" was able to spawn crap like this.

MAGA my arse.

 
 
 
Kavika
16.1  Kavika   replied to  bbl-1 @16    2 weeks ago

The Trump campaign is low on cash. They have skipped ads in Iowa and Ohio for the last two weeks. Didn't Trump say he could finance his own campaign. Get to hoppin' there Trump.

Biden/Harris raked in $15 million after the Harris Pence debate. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
16.1.1  bbl-1  replied to  Kavika @16.1    2 weeks ago

Trump has said many things.  Few of them true.  Except maybe, "You'll have to check with Michael, he's my lawyer, you'll have to check with Michael."

For one thing the NRA is having serious legal and ethical issues.  Doubt if much foreign money is being laundered through them now.  The 'corpulent bridges' of Donald J. Trump are self destructing.  Everything he touches burns.

 
 
 
pat wilson
16.1.2  pat wilson  replied to  Kavika @16.1    2 weeks ago

Mexico's gonna pay for it.

 
 
 
Kavika
16.1.3  Kavika   replied to  pat wilson @16.1.2    2 weeks ago
Mexico's gonna pay for it.

There are still on the hook for the wall...lol

Remember that great new NATA he renegotiated. Well, the great deal maker screwed up again. Our deficit with Mexico is larger with the ''wonderful, beautiful new agreement'' than it was under the old NAFTA.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
16.1.4  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Kavika @16.1.3    2 weeks ago
'wonderful, beautiful new agreement'' than it was under the old NAFTA.

Is that the one he plucked out  of his suit pocket in front of the cameras?

 
 
 
cjcold
16.1.5  cjcold  replied to  bbl-1 @16.1.1    2 weeks ago

Even we at the Dharma initiative recognize Trump as evil.

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @16.1.4    2 weeks ago
'wonderful, beautiful new agreement'' than it was under the old NAFTA.'

"Is that the one he plucked out  of his suit pocket in front of the cameras?"

The one that looked like maybe half a page, that one?

 
 
 
bbl-1
16.1.7  bbl-1  replied to  cjcold @16.1.5    2 weeks ago

Evil?  Or the real 'Manchurian candidate'?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
17  Buzz of the Orient    2 weeks ago

Seems to me they deserve to be put in a "re-education camp" since they're considered to be terrorists planning violence.  Now that I think of it, are not American prisons that provide continuing education for prisoners "re-education camps"?

 
 
 
Dulay
17.1  Dulay  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @17    2 weeks ago

Guantanamo Bay has some open cells. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
18  Buzz of the Orient    2 weeks ago

I forgot about Gauntanamo Bay - thanks for reminding me about something I can say the next time someone criticizes the CCP re-education camps for the Uyghur separatist terrorists. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
18.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @18    2 weeks ago

Aren't the Uyghur's a Muslim sect?

You know that will be the only time the rightwingers here will defend a Muslim

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
18.1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Trout Giggles @18.1    2 weeks ago

About 80 nations, including most of the Muslim ones, agree with China's vocational training of the Uyghurs. An essay about it written by and Egyptian and published in an Egyptian medium has been posted as an aricle on the Discovery group.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
18.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @18.1.1    2 weeks ago

Did I say something wrong?

 
 
 
Sparty On
18.1.3  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @18.1    2 weeks ago
You know that will be the only time the rightwingers here will defend a Muslim

Bullshit!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
18.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @18.1.1    2 weeks ago

This is interesting and gave me some insight as to what is going on with the Uyghurs.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/uighurs/

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
18.1.5  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @18.1.4    2 weeks ago

Interesting indeed. For what is said and for what is not said.......

It underscores the support that Arab states have given to China... although I'm not at all sure of the "popular sensitivity" of the regimes that gave that support. jrSmiley_35_smiley_image.gif

I think it shows, above all, that those Arab regimes feel a much greater need for China's support than they feel anything at all about the Uyghurs.

As far as I can see, China will do as it pleases. This isn't the first time. Tibet got the same treatment thirty years ago, to total international indifference.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
18.1.6  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Trout Giggles @18.1.2    2 weeks ago
"Did I say something wrong?"

I don't think you did - did anyone think so?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
18.1.7  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Trout Giggles @18.1.4    2 weeks ago

Yes, the internment was caused by the terrorism and separatism committed by a portion of the Uyghur people.  Did you notice that there are about 11 million Uyghurs?  Why have only around 2 million (if that's a correct figure) been interned?  Why not ALL the Uyghurs?  Isn't it obvious that 9 million are peaceful, and it is those who are or bound to become separatist terrorists who are interned?  Did America differentiate between the peaceful Japanese Americans and those who could have been a danger when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, or did America put ALL Japanese Americans in internment camps?  Pot-Kettle.  The only terrorism that has been in China since then was an old deranged man who broke into a primary school and stabbed a bunch of children (and it was reported, because, contrary to China-haters belief, China DOES report those things).  So how many acts of terrorism have occured in America in the past 3 years.  Are you happy living in an atmosphere where people run and hide when they hear a motorcycle backfire?  Maybe there is some truth to the story in the link you provided, and maybe there's some truth in the article I recommended for you to read.  Maybe there is a mix of both - so anyone who is intelligent is going to realize that maybe the extremes, as expounded in the seed here posted by MAGA, should not be taken seriously.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
18.1.8  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson @18.1.5    2 weeks ago
"...China will do as it pleases."

Yes Bob, maybe they've been taking lessons from Trump.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
18.1.9  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @18.1.7    2 weeks ago

Why have only around 2 million (if that's a correct figure) been internedo

imagine thinking that  Helpsyour case.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
18.1.10  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @18.1.9    2 weeks ago

You should try reading past the first five sentences, maybe reading the whole paragraph, before posting your comment.  You'll say you did, but your comment establishes that you were not open to accept what was contrary to existing prejudices. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
18.1.11  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @18.1.8    2 weeks ago
"China will do as it pleases."

That's not a judgment. It's a statement of fact. The Uyghurs are helpless against China, and there's no one coming to their aid. The US, the EU, and the Arabs are all staying away. 

That could mean that they take China's part... or it could mean that they know which side their bread is buttered on... or it could mean that this battle just doesn't interest them enough. 

Whatever. 

China will do as it pleases. 

 
 
 
JBB
19  JBB    2 weeks ago

Imagine BLM plotted to kidnap Tex Gov Abbott...

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
19.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  JBB @19    2 weeks ago

I know that the Bureau of Land Management has been more or less giving away concessions on Federal land... but why would they want to kidnap the governor? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
19.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  JBB @19    2 weeks ago
Imagine BLM plotted to kidnap Tex Gov Abbott...

OIP.pJftP3kr2Zk_r1BRA06miwHaIX?pid=Api&rs=1

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
19.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @19    2 weeks ago
Imagine BLM plotted to kidnap Tex Gov Abbott...

He would probably be kidnapped. I don't think Chris Wray's FBI spends much time infiltrating BLM or antifa.

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.1  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @19.3    2 weeks ago
He would probably be kidnapped. I don't think Chris Wray's FBI spends much time infiltrating BLM or antifa.

Don't you mean Trump's DOJ and FBI Vic? After all, Trump just took credit for the arrests in Michigan and insists that Whitmer should thank HIM. 

Oh and BTFW, informants went to the Michigan LEO's about the plot and the CHS were existing members of the group. In short, the FBI didn't infiltrate anything. 

Remember, YOU are the one that claimed that facts matter. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
19.3.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @19.3.1    2 weeks ago
Don't you mean Trump's DOJ and FBI Vic?

Nope, I said what I meant. I'm sorry if some don't like it.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
19.3.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Dulay @19.3.1    2 weeks ago
In short, the FBI didn't infiltrate anything. 

"Members of the group bought weapons, conducted surveillance and held training and planning meetings , but they were foiled in part because the FBI infiltrated the group with informants , according to a criminal complaint." 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/10/08/militia-members-charged-plot-against-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer/5923650002/

jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.4  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @19.3.2    2 weeks ago
Nope, I said what I meant. I'm sorry if some don't like it.

I couldn't care less either way, I just thought that maybe you missed the memo...

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.5  Dulay  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @19.3.3    2 weeks ago

So are you now claiming that you believe that FAKE NEWS from the MSM? 

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

MY comment is based on the statements in the FBI complaint and ACCURATELY characterizes what the FBI documented. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
19.3.6  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Dulay @19.3.5    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.7  Dulay  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @19.3.6    2 weeks ago

Nope.

No matter how many times I GIVE you and yours links to prove my statements you all continue to insist that I never back up my comments.

So go pound sand. 

Instead of ROTHFLYAO, do your own research, just like I did. You didn't seem to have any trouble finding an article that you think bolstered your comment, use those same skills to review some FACTS. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
19.3.8  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Dulay @19.3.7    2 weeks ago

And just WHAT didn't you understand about this from the article?

according to a criminal complaint." 

I've never not read a provided link unlike some here who don't WANT to see things differently so, have at it.........................I'm all eyes.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
19.3.9  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @19.3.5    2 weeks ago
So are you now claiming that you believe that FAKE NEWS from the MSM? 

Admit it - Jim nailed it. He provided the facts!

You said they didn't infiltrate and you were proved wrong!

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.10  Dulay  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @19.3.8    2 weeks ago

Never said that y'all didn't read them Jim, just said y'all consistently allege I NEVER provide them.

That and your ROTFLYAO emoji are weak motivation for me to waste my time providing you and yours with links that I spent MY time garnering and reviewing so that I could more accurately converse with those that actually care about FACTS.

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.11  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @19.3.9    2 weeks ago
Admit it - Jim nailed it. He provided the facts! You said they didn't infiltrate and you were proved wrong!

Actually Vic, any thinking person will recognize that Jim quoted the statement of MSM journalists, who are members of a group that you and yours decry as 'enemies of the people'. 

FAIL.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
19.3.12  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @19.3.11    2 weeks ago
Actually Vic

Actually Dulay, you were proved wrong.  DECISIVELY SO!

Admitting it would be the right thing to do.

Everyone makes a mistake.

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.13  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @19.3.12    2 weeks ago
Actually Dulay, you were proved wrong.  DECISIVELY!

You have a right to your own opinion but not your own facts.  

Admitting it would be the right thing to do.

First of all, why would I admit to something that never happened?

Secondly, I await the day you follow your own advice. 

Everyone makes a mistake.

Yet in this thread, I made no mistake. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
19.3.14  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Dulay @19.3.11    2 weeks ago

Never have dissed USA Today. Of the MSM, they are closer to the center than MSNBC, CNN, Mother Jones, VOX and a shitload more. They said according to the damned complaint. Just stop. [deleted] Not my problem. Now, show your version of the report or just piss off............................

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
19.3.15  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @19.3.13    2 weeks ago
You have a right to your own opinion but not your own facts.  

Nice slogan - In this case it applies to you. Just admit that Jim proved you wrong instead of going on with this.


First of all, why would I admit to something that never happened?

It did and you were given the proof. Denying it looks bad. I'm trying to give you good advice with all due respect.

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.16  Dulay  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @19.3.14    2 weeks ago
Never have dissed USA Today.

What say you about the Detroit Free Press, since THAT is where the journalists that you quoted actually work? 

They said according to the damned complaint. Just stop.

Yes, I read that. I for one prefer to pursue the ORIGINAL document and READ it for myself. But you be you...

You got your ass handed to you and you don't like it.

You and your buddy can believe what you want. I'll rely on facts I garner from the source rather than on journalists telling me what the source says. But again Jim, you be you. 

Not my problem. Now, show your version of the report or just piss off............................

I don't have my 'version' of the report Jim, I only have the same access as YOU do to the DOJ 'version' of the report. 

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.17  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @19.3.15    2 weeks ago
Nice slogan - In this case it applies to you.

My comments are not based on my opinion, they are based on the FACTS. 

Just admit that Jim proved you wrong instead of going on with this.

But he hasn't Vic, and NEITHER of you have any evidence that he has. Some here don't swill everything journalists serve up and rely on our own reading of the evidence. But as I told Jim, you be you Vic. 

It did and you were given the proof.

No Vic, I was given an unfounded statement by journalists. If you and Jim want to accept that as proof, so be it. I don't. 

Denying it looks bad.

Actually Vic, you and Jim insisting that I take the word of journalists over the DOJ documentation that I have read for myself is what looks bad. 

Yet I really could NOT care less how YOU or Jim think it makes me look because even if I GIVE you the documents I have read you'll be saying that I NEVER support my claims tomorrow. So go pound sand. 

I'm trying to give you good advice with all due respect.

That dog don't hunt. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
19.3.18  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Dulay @19.3.17    2 weeks ago

Show your work. And unfounded? The article stated it was from the report. So again, if you can, show the difference between what you "have read" and what the news report said or you have nothing. Period. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
19.3.19  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @19.3.17    2 weeks ago
My comments are not based on my opinion, they are based on the FACTS. 

The fact is the link Jim posted in 19.3.3.  You have been denying it. You claimed they didn't infiltrate. You were proved wrong.


But he hasn't Vic

But he has - that's how we do it here on NT - we provide a link to back up what we say. You consistently refuse to accept it.


No Vic, I was given an unfounded statement by journalists.

No Dulay, you were given proof.


Actually Vic, you and Jim insisting that I take the word of journalists over the DOJ documentation that I have read for myself is what looks bad. 

I beg to differ. Not only won't you accept a fact, but you choose to contest it without offering anything to counter it. I'm really trying to offer you good advice. 


 So go pound sand. 

No, I have to respond to such a denial of facts. We were told to back up what we say here. Jim has done that. I'm standing with him.

 
 
 
Texan1211
19.3.21  Texan1211  replied to    2 weeks ago

Please post a link if you can, I would like to read that myself, because Dulay has assured us all that there was NO infiltration by the FBI.

Let's see! 

I sure hope that the argument that the FBI didn't infiltrate doesn't include "well, technically, the FBI didn't do it, there was an informant who wasn't FBI!"

 
 
 
Tessylo
19.3.22  Tessylo  replied to  Dulay @19.3.1    2 weeks ago
"Remember, YOU are the one that claimed that facts matter."

jrSmiley_40_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
19.3.24  Texan1211  replied to    2 weeks ago

excellent  and thank you!

 
 
 
Texan1211
19.3.26  Texan1211  replied to    2 weeks ago

well, some here demand exacting standards of precision with each and every word. so who knows how this will be spun?

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.27  Dulay  replied to    2 weeks ago
If they are employees of the FBI then they were infiltrated. PERIOD!

Infiltrate:

Gain access.

The CHS are how the UCE 'gained access' to the group. It's not like the FBI had an eye on these guys before the CHS came forward to the local PD. [see below]

An FBI developed informant.

Your bold highlight doesn't prove that claim.

It implies that the FBI just stumbled across a willing member of the group. 

In fact, since your buddies think that statements from journalists are definitive proof, there's this:

A local police department learned in March that members were trying to obtain addresses of local law-enforcement officers, according to the News. Following that discovery, the FBI says it began tracking the militia.
“At the time, the FBI interviewed a member of the militia group who was concerned about the group’s plans to target and kill police officers, and that person agreed to become a (confidential source),” the agent wrote. https://www.insideedition.com/gov-gretchen-whitmer-speaks-out-after-13-men-arrested-for-allegedly-planning-to-kidnap-her-62314

So are you open to the possibility that the informant that you claim the FBI developed had already come forward to the local PD and agreed to become a CHS for the FBI? 

BTW, why didn't you provide your buddies with the link that they have been bitching about but were  too lazy to look up themselves? How long did it take you to access the complaint? Yesterday, it took me about 10 seconds. 

It wouldn't hurt for them to read about how the documented actions started in June and the first time a 'UCE' is mentioned in those actions is in September on the 12th and 13th and that is the ONLY time. The last 'action' is dated Oct. 7th. 

 
 
 
Dulay
19.3.28  Dulay  replied to    2 weeks ago

Actually, the one you quoted from is here:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmi/press-release/file/1326161/download

You linked the FBI complaint. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
20  Kathleen    2 weeks ago

Even though when I look at her face and think "Bitch" I think that she and anyone else should not be harmed in anyway. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
20.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Kathleen @20    2 weeks ago
Even though when I look at her face and think "Bitch"

That's a pretty harsh sentiment just from looking at someone else's face. Is it that she has the fabled "resting bitch face"? I always thought being a "bitch" was based on a persons actions and attitudes, not just a glance at their face. Or perhaps it's the preconceived partisanship knowing she's a democrat that elicits such an immediate judgement.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
20.1.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.1    2 weeks ago
I always thought being a "bitch" was based on a persons actions and attitudes, not just a glance at their face

SMH the sight of her face REMINDS one of what a bitch she is...............I am sure Kathleen is NOT one of those "book by the cover" people...

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
20.1.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @20.1.1    2 weeks ago
the sight of her face REMINDS one of what a bitch she is

The only ones claiming such seem to be right wing extremists like those who tried to kidnap her which means it's more likely that it was "the preconceived partisanship knowing she's a democrat that elicits such an immediate judgement."

 
 
 
Kathleen
20.1.3  Kathleen  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.1    2 weeks ago

Not as harsh as what I have seen on here, especially wishing people ill will when they are sick. Spare me... I have a right to my opinion and I don’t have to explain it to anyone. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
20.1.4  Kathleen  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.1.2    2 weeks ago

Are you saying that I would do such a thing?

 
 
 
Kathleen
20.1.5  Kathleen  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @20.1.1    2 weeks ago

Nope, I am not, I watched her over time. I have seen some really bad things said to other politicians on here. They have no room to talk. Hypocrisy 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
20.1.6  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Kathleen @20.1.3    2 weeks ago
Not as harsh as I have seen on here

Nice general defensive 'whataboutism'.

especially wishing people ill will when they are sick

I've only hoped the President and his staff get well, I want them to survive so they can answer for their crimes once they are out of office.

I have a right to my opinion and I don’t have to explain it to anyone.

Fair enough, I just asked a simple question and pointed out that most who would agree with you in your assessment of this target of domestic terrorists seem to hate her based solely on partisan division. But of course, you do not have to defend your position and can just state your opinions apparently wishing for zero feedback or challenge, that is your choice.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
20.1.7  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Kathleen @20.1.4    2 weeks ago
Are you saying that I would do such a thing?

Not at all. I merely stated that the others I've heard calling her such names align with or defend those same right wing anarchists who thought she was such a bitch they were planning on abducting her.

 
 
 
Kathleen
20.1.8  Kathleen  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.1.6    2 weeks ago

You may have hoped, but others have not on here. Although I have never seen you complain about what they said. Like I said, we all have our opinions. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
20.1.9  Kathleen  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.1.7    2 weeks ago

Are you saying that I defend these criminals that were planning to do this?

I think you are way out of line when I comes to me personally. 

I NEVER said that I would agree with this criminal behavior DP. 

I still think she is a bitch and if you don’t like it, too bad... 

 
 
 
Texan1211
20.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.1.7    2 weeks ago

It is quite possible for some of us to feel she is a bitch while ALSO condemning the idiots who plotted against her.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
20.1.11  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Kathleen @20.1.5    2 weeks ago
"I have seen some really bad things said to other politicians on here."

Do you allow others bad actions determine your own? If someone else does something reprehensible, does that mean it justifies being reprehensible in return? Is it 'Do unto others as they have done to you', or 'Do unto others what you would have them do to you'?

They have no room to talk. Hypocrisy 

Here we are talking about a group of anarchist militia planning on violently abducting a governor and trying her in a kangaroo court, but what do we hear from those on the right side of the NT aisle?

"I's sure the majority of Michigan citizens would like to see her gone, for all the stupidity she displayed."

"She is not fit to be governor"

"So they actually didn't kidnap anyone? So why are they in jail. Bad thoughts?"

"Not a surprise. She's pissed a shitload of people off with her "shotgun style" totalitarian policies."

"Was that an Antifa flag behind him?"

No. That is a well known anarchist flag.

"that is anti police and anti constitution sporting an Antifa flag as a prominent decoration for his videos"

Again, that is not an Antifa flag. I get that both "Antifa" and "anarchy" start with an "A" but only a moron would try and claim the anarchy flag that's been around for at least 150 years is now an "Antifa flag".

"They would bring her back after a few hours."
"when I look at her face and think "Bitch"

Seems to be a theme on the right which is to either justify or deflect from the actions of these domestic terrorists. Personally, had this been a Republican governor targeted I would have condemned these anarchists just as fervently, I don't think this should be a partisan issue, but apparently that's not true for everyone commenting here.

 
 
 
Texan1211
20.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.1.11    2 weeks ago
Do you allow others bad actions determine your own? If someone else does something reprehensible, does that mean it justifies being reprehensible in return? Is it 'Do unto others as they have done to you', or 'Do unto others what you would have them do to you'?

Would what Democrats are planning to do to Amy Barrett a good example of that?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
20.1.13  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Texan1211 @20.1.10    2 weeks ago
It is quite possible for some of us to feel she is a bitch while ALSO condemning the idiots who plotted against her.

I don't disagree, though I wonder if that argument would have worked after Republican Steve Scalise was shot. Do you think it would have been appropriate for anyone on the left to say "I'm sure the majority of citizens would like to see him gone for all the stupidity he showed" or "He's not fit to be a congressman!" or "Not a surprise. He's pissed a shitload of people off" even if after such comments they said "Oh, and we condemn the gunman too". I have a feeling those on the right would have been rightly outraged at such comments regardless of the included condemnations.

 
 
 
Kathleen
20.1.14  Kathleen  replied to  Texan1211 @20.1.10    2 weeks ago

That is in my case, but of course they want to exaggerate it and accuse people of things. 

It’s wrong and entirely unfair to do so.

I am closing my fucking account out.

I had enough.

 
 
 
Texan1211
20.1.15  Texan1211  replied to  Kathleen @20.1.14    2 weeks ago

Don't go!

Just ignore some of the people who annoy you most. Block them out and it isn't nearly as bad!

(and if you are ever curious as to what they say, you can always unblock them to see, then block them again.

 
 
 
devangelical
20.1.16  devangelical  replied to  Kathleen @20.1.14    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
20.1.17  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Kathleen @20.1.14    2 weeks ago

I guess you don't know that we here as members have checked in to the Hotel California. "You can check out any time you want but you can never leave". In other words, you can't shut off your account on your own. 

And please, don't go.....................

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
20.1.18  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.1.13    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
20.1.19  Trout Giggles  replied to  Kathleen @20.1.14    2 weeks ago

So you get a little pushback and have to leave?

Is that a sign of maturity and taking responsibility for your words in your part of the world?

 
 
 
Sunshine
20.1.20  Sunshine  replied to  Kathleen @20.1.14    2 weeks ago
That is in my case, but of course they want to exaggerate it and accuse people of things. 

Their liberal friends have been causing death, destruction, and chaos all over our nation for months.  

[deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
20.1.21  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @20.1.20    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
r.t..b...
20.1.22  r.t..b...  replied to  Kathleen @20.1.14    2 weeks ago

It is solely your decision, Kathleen.

And while we often disagree on the topic at hand, it is only through discussions with those who see things from from a different perspective can we ever hope to achieve a positive outcome. To enter into those discussions requires a thick skin and a short memory.
Take that for what is is worth, and if you should choose to step off, please do so with the understanding that there are no hard feelings from this vantage point and that your inherent optimism will be missed.

Peace.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.1.23  Vic Eldred  replied to  r.t..b... @20.1.22    2 weeks ago

Who are you speaking to?

 
 
 
r.t..b...
20.1.24  r.t..b...  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.1.23    2 weeks ago

By extension, everyone that visits this site. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.1.26  Vic Eldred  replied to  r.t..b... @20.1.24    2 weeks ago

In that case, present company accepted. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
20.1.27  r.t..b...  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.1.26    2 weeks ago

Allegorically speaking of course. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.1.28  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @20.1.12    2 weeks ago
"Would what Democrats are planning to do to Amy Barrett a good example of that?"

WTF does that have to do with the kidnapping/murder plot of Whitmer?  Deflection?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.1.29  Vic Eldred  replied to  r.t..b... @20.1.27    2 weeks ago
Allegorically

Speaking as in - a few of us here, but not all.

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.1.30  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen @20.1.14    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
20.1.31  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @20.1.28    2 weeks ago

if you read my post and the pist I responded to. I am hopeful you will be able to see that it was not a deflection, and if you can't, that really is too sad

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.1.32  Vic Eldred  replied to  r.t..b... @20.1.27    2 weeks ago

Once you realize it's allegorical, the first five chapters are easy.

th?id=OIP.c2ICLCe6McPz6B99zYF1DwHaFj&pid=Api&P=0&w=223&h=168

Have a good one!

 
 
 
r.t..b...
20.1.33  r.t..b...  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.1.32    2 weeks ago

Indeed. And it takes a well written five chapters to establish the theme. Happy reading, all! 

 
 
 
Kathleen
20.1.34  Kathleen  replied to  r.t..b... @20.1.22    5 days ago

Good and informative rtb, thanks for the comment. My husband read it and said.. yep. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
20.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen @20    2 weeks ago
I look at her face and think "Bitch"

That comment is a bit catty.

 
 
 
Kathleen
20.2.1  Kathleen  replied to  sandy-2021492 @20.2    2 weeks ago

That is your opinion. [deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
20.2.2  JBB  replied to  sandy-2021492 @20.2    2 weeks ago

If you put a D next to any women's name she suddenly becomes fair game. Call Melanie a name and they get all butthurt but they can call AOC or Ilhan Omar or Nancy Pelosi bitches and sluts and still be praised and get votes up...

256

 
 
 
Texan1211
20.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @20.2.2    2 weeks ago

some feel politicians are fair game while their spouses and kids are off limits

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
20.2.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  Texan1211 @20.2.3    2 weeks ago

And some went after Michelle Obama every chance they got, and still do on a fairly regular basis.

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @20.2.4    2 weeks ago
"And some went after Michelle Obama every chance they got, and still do on a fairly regular basis."

AND MALIA AND SASHA

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
20.2.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  Tessylo @20.2.5    2 weeks ago

Yup.

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.2.7  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @20.2.6    2 weeks ago

121170172_3666525806715222_5897279764293157509_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=UgB7F2X8zm0AX-GDoJM&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=1c1cb5231ff1cc5465b86ffce6bbb288&oe=5FA796E3

 
 
 
Texan1211
20.2.8  Texan1211  replied to  sandy-2021492 @20.2.4    2 weeks ago

yes some do, just like some say nasty things about Trump and his family.

I choose to not go down that road.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  JBB @20.2.2    2 weeks ago

You're maybe expecting coherence from nut-jobs? 

You obviously haven't understood their values - system:

If the right does it, it's OK. If the fascist-right does it, it's not just "OK", it's great and to be praised and imitated.

I'm sure you can imagine how they see anything coming from the left. 

The important thing to understand is that, for fascists, there is no intrinsic right or wrong. If the right does it, it is good; if the left doe it, if is bad.

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot someone, and not lose a single voter!" 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
20.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kathleen @20    2 weeks ago

The word “bitch” hardly comes to mind when I see her, but she is a little intimidating in a cyborg-ish way. Kinda reminds me of Newt’s current wife, like she’s ready to swoop out of the sky and take off with my cat in her talons or something.  However, in that press conference it was the sign language interpreter behind her that really gave me the willies.  I was afraid for my life to take my eyes off of her, gesticulating wildly like a robot programmed for evil deeds.

256

256

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
20.3.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @20.3    2 weeks ago

512

I was looking for a harpy.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.3.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @20.3.1    2 weeks ago

Ummm...... 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
20.3.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.3.2    2 weeks ago

I think it's a pretty good resemblance. Check out the nose

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.3.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @20.3.3    2 weeks ago

ah.......

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
20.3.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.3.4    2 weeks ago

It's actually a harpy owl. It's beautiful in a strange way.

 
 
 
Split Personality
20.3.6  Split Personality  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @20.3    2 weeks ago

She's a marooned Vulcan doing her best until Spock comes back to rescue her.

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.3.7  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @20.3    2 weeks ago

"The word “bitch” hardly comes to mind when I see her, but she is a little intimidating in a cyborg-ish way. Kinda reminds me of Newt’s current wife, like she’s ready to swoop out of the sky and take off with my cat in her talons or something.  However, in that press conference it was the sign language interpreter behind her that really gave me the willies.  I was afraid for my life to take my eyes off of her, gesticulating wildly like a robot programmed for evil deeds."

YIKES!

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
20.3.8  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @20.3    2 weeks ago
sign language interpreter behind her that really gave me the willies

I know!!  I was mortified mydamnself!  

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
20.3.9  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @20.3    2 weeks ago

Her eyes remind me of Chucky.

 
 
 
devangelical
20.4  devangelical  replied to  Kathleen @20    2 weeks ago
I look at her face and think "Bitch"

!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
20.4.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  devangelical @20.4    2 weeks ago

I know, right?

 
 
 
devangelical
20.4.2  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @20.4.1    2 weeks ago

viagra antidote

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.4.3  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @20.4    2 weeks ago

Apparently a lot of those on the 'right', feel that way about a lot of those on the 'left'

Fox News cut ties with a frequent guest after he called Kamala Harris an 'insufferable lying b----' on Twitter

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-news-cut-ties-regular-094321205.html

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
20.4.4  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Tessylo @20.4.3    2 weeks ago

During the 22016 election, Harlan Hill posed as a democratic strategist on Fox, and they were complicit from the beginning.  His only purpose was to act as a disenfranchised democrat who couldn't wait to trash Hillary and vote for Trump.  It was all bullshit.  Here we are 4 years later, and Fox suddenly becomes a pearl-clutching entity?  source

I bet his bowtie is a clip-on.

 
 
 
Split Personality
20.4.5  Split Personality  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @20.4.4    2 weeks ago

Not yet 30 years old, made 47 appearances on Fox...since Dec 2017

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
20.4.6  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @20.4.4    2 weeks ago

Aren't all bow ties clip ons?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
20.4.7  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Tessylo @20.4.3    2 weeks ago

He is a toadie for the biggest insufferable lying bitch ever....Trump.

 
 
 
lady in black
21  lady in black    2 weeks ago
 
 
 
Trout Giggles
21.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  lady in black @21    2 weeks ago

Oh...wow.....Can't wait for the prosecutors to show this at the trial

 
 
 
devangelical
21.1.1  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @21.1    2 weeks ago

here's the local yokel sheriff that's defending them, shown at a presser earlier this year. hmmm.... what are those yellow patches on one guys arm and the others hat? antifa? no. the kidnappers appear to be associated, if not members, of a different domestic terrorist group. the tea party. how quaint.

 
 
 
devangelical
21.1.2  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @21.1.1    2 weeks ago

here's the local yokel sheriff that's defending them, shown at a presser earlier this year. hmmm.... what are those yellow patches on one guys arm and the others hat? antifa? no. the kidnappers appear to be associated, if not members, of a different domestic terrorist group. the tea party. how quaint. c7c50249925344659c88e704b211a5d6_md.jpg

 
 
 
devangelical
21.1.3  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @21.1.2    2 weeks ago

sorry about the double post. I spaced the picture on the first one and timed out on the edit.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
21.1.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @21.1    2 weeks ago

It will be Whitmer vs the witless.

 
 
 
MrFrost
22  MrFrost    2 weeks ago

Radical Left: Can we have healthcare please?

Radical Right: Lets kidnap a governor and overthrow the government. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
22.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  MrFrost @22    2 weeks ago

Aha!! 

You've gone over to the Dark Side. 

Bothsidesism! 

 
 
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