NBC News:At least 5 men have been charged in a federal case in Michigan tied to a plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. The men are identified in court documents as Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, and Brandon Caserta.
LANSING — The federal government has charged six people with conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, according to newly unsealed court records.
The FBI became aware early in 2020, through social media, that a militia group was "discussing the violent overthrow of certain government and law enforcement components," and "agreed to take violent action," according to a sworn affidavit.
Members of the group talked about "murdering ... tyrants" or "taking" a sitting governor, according to the affidavit. One of the relevant meetings the FBI monitored was held June 20 in Grand Rapids. the affidavit alleges.
The group met for field exercises and training this year and conducted surveillance of the the governor's vacation home on at least two occasions in late August and September, the affidavit alleges.
Discussions included using 200 men to "storm" the Capitol Building in Lansing, kidnap hostages, including, Whitmer and try the governor for treason, according to the affidavit.
"All of us can disagree about politics, but those disagreements should never, ever result in violence," said U.S. Attorney Matthew Schneider in the Eastern District of Michigan. "The allegations in this complaint are deeply disturbing. We owe are thanks to the men and women of law enforcement who uncovered this plot and have worked so hard to protect Gov. Whitmer."
Charged in the U.S. District Court in the western district of Michigan are: Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, and Brandon Caserta, according to a criminal complaint. They are charged with conspiracy to commit kidnapping, according to the complaint.
All are residents of Michigan except Croft, who is a resident of Delaware, the complaint alleges.
More than a dozen people from several states met in Dublin, Ohio on June 6 and talked about creating a society that followed the U.S. Bill of Rights, in which they could be self-sufficient.
I hope they had the foresight to vote early for trump
"One of the militiamen accused of plotting to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer railed that President Trump was a “tyrant” and called all government workers “your enemy.”
Well, it looks like the anarchists, true to form, think all government leaders are tyrants, including President Trump.
Brandon Caserta is one of the ringleaders in the foiled plot to kidnap the governor and video reportedly of Caserta shows the suspect calling President Trump a "tyrant" and an "enemy."
"Trump is not your friend, dude," Caserta says. "And it amazes me that people actually believe that when he's shown over and over and over again that he's a tyrant. Every single person that works for government is your enemy, dude."
Of the 5 men arrested by the feds, the FBI complain cites Adam FOX - 92Xs, Barry CROFT - 27Xs, Ty GARBIN - 42Xs, Kaleb FRANKS - 35Xs, Daniel HARRIS -18xs, and Brandon CASERTA 2Xs.
There was Eric Molitor, a 36-year-old whose Facebook page gushed about 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse, the Blue Lives Matter wannabe militiaman accused of killing two people in Kenosha, Wisconsin, this summer. Molitor now faces state charges of providing material support for terrorist acts and carrying a firearm during the commission of a felony.
As The Daily Beast previously reported , he was also apparently a fan of QAnon, the disturbingly mainstream conspiracy theory “movement” that holds President Trump is quietly, nobly doing battle with a cadre of pedophiles who happen to inhabit the highest levels of the government. The suspect posted the “Save Our Children,” hashtag, a seemingly innocuous cause that has increasingly come to resemble a collective delusion that in some cases has allegedly inspired people to kidnap their own children.
He was also apparently into Three Percenter-style militia activity, which long predates QAnon and is premised around the false idea that 3 percent of Revolutionary War-era colonists fought in that conflict. Three Percenters have been a regular—armed—presence at a slew of violent protests in recent years, the deadly Unite the Rally among them.
Then there’s Brandon Caserta.
As The Detroit News and NBC News reported , the suspect in the federal case against Whitmer’s alleged wannabe kidnappers appeared in at least one video in a Hawaiian shirt, a trademark of the Boogaloo Movement obsessed with sparking the next civil war. Unlike some of your typical far-right militia diehards, this crowd at least sometimes purports to be concerned with law-enforcement excesses, and even take a special interest—as some Michigan suspects allegedly did—in killing cops. Boogaloo members have been arrested or implicated in an array of attacks and schemes in recents months, from an alleged plot to help Hamas to another to destroy federal infrastructure to actual cop killings.
A federal law-enforcement official told NBC News the seven “Wolverine Watchmen” at the center of the state case were Boogaloo affiliated. But the outlet also cited Caserta pivoting swiftly from Joe Rogan fandom to pandemic conspiracy.
If you’re having a tough time keeping track of the various fringe and far-right affiliations here, you’re not alone. The Trump era has long brought out the crazy, but the early indicators are that the Whitmer case was stoked by a sort of witches brew of far-right ideologies that have flourished on his watch. Sure enough, the president actually tweeted half-defensively about the plot against Whitmer late Thursday, insisting he was against “extreme violence” while basically stoking more ire for a governor who has gotten to him like few others.
“This is just another example of how these anti-government groups get agitated and invigorated when you have a president calling them to action,” Daryl Johnson, a former Department of Homeland Security analyst of far-right extremism, told The Daily Beast.
The precise nature of the affiliations of the defendants in the Whitmer saga is still coming into focus. Some of their activity appeared to be little more sophisticated than angry men firing guns and driving their neighbors insane.
“They thought it was a meth house because there was trash blowing all over the place,” one Munith, Michigan, resident who requested anonymity for fear of reprisal said of fellow residents’ impression of a home inhabited by two suspects, Joseph Morrison and Pete Musico , tied to the “Wolverine Watchmen” case. Both are charged with terrorism, gang membership, providing material support for terrorist acts, and firearms felonies.
Social profiles tied to Musico showed interest in everything from bogus memes that white people are being slaughtered in South Africa to far-right Proud Boys to anti-Semitism to Alex Jones.
In other cases, people who knew the suspects struggled to make sense of what they described, at least, as a seemingly rapid descent into radicalization.
“I’m very surprised because he’s just not like that,” R. Miller, a neighbor of 38-year-old state terrorism suspect Shawn Fix, Told The Daily Beast late Thursday, adding, “Maybe [he] got mixed up with the wrong people and that changed his way of thinking.”
As the suspects’ cases proceed, more will inevitably come to light about just how they appear to have become infatuated with far-right violence, and why a pandemic lockdown loathed by millions allegedly drove them to terrorism. What we already know, experts said, is that this climate is incredibly inviting to this sort of fringe descent—and a disturbing run-up to an election widely expected to feature far-right violence is officially underway.
“We’re at a heightened state of risk right now and that’s my greatest concern, that these groups that have been carrying guns to protests end up shooting,” Johnson said.
This is deeply alarming: “...the conspirators twice conducted surveillance at Whitmer 's vacation home and discussed kidnapping her to a remote location in Wisconsin to stand "trial" for treason prior to the Nov. 3 election.”
Remember when Trump and Trumpworld spent months threatening governor Whitmer ? I do.
So do I. I still haven't recovered from Trump calling her 'that woman.'
Regarding the kidnapping plot, watch Trump say, "I don't know these people, I've never met these people, but I hear that they like me. That's important."
Not quite sure about that John. There is a multitude of people that got pissed with her for her Draconian shut down rules. Like no veggy seeds or plants to be sold. We shall see for sure in 26 days
Trump is already losing in the polls in the state. What is your theory that news of a plotted violent takeover of the state government would be beneficial in winning Trump the undecideds there ?
There is a multitude of people that got pissed with her for her Draconian shut down rules. Like no veggy seeds or plants to be sold. We shall see for sure in 26 days
She has a 59% approval rating, so a few people must approve of her handling of the virus.
I's sure the majority of Michigan citizens would like to see her gone, for all the stupidity she displayed.You seemingly don't understand how normal people feel and think.
She has a 59% approval rating on her handling of the corona virus. So which majority are you talking about?
You don't seem to have a good grip on facts pertaining to MI or Whitmer.
Yeah and I have been contacted in two polls in the last 3 weeks and told them I was voting for Biden. And trust me, I am sure I am NOT alone. You can believe polls but I don't. Again, we shall see.
I suspect that there are some repentant 2016 Trump voters who are embarrassed to tell their Trumpist friends and neighbors that they've realized how badly their Glorious Leader has been screwing them. They have spent four years exchanging Trumpist slogans, and now they don't know how to say "We've been bamboozled!"
I don't know how many they are, but they could swing some results.
I suspect that there are some repentant 2016 Trump voters who are embarrassed to tell their Trumpist friends and neighbors that they've realized how badly their Glorious Leader has been screwing them. They have spent four years exchanging Trumpist slogans, and now they don't know how to say "We've been bamboozled!"
More nonsensical rants from the hive ..... a charcuterie of crazed leftist narrative to be sure
Just Jim NC TttH: Anyone that supports, promoting, or believe that this is acceptable is a threat to this nation and should be treated as a potential domestic TERRORIST.
Armed, under-educated, RIGHT-WING MILITIA GROUPS, regardless of the name that they appropriate to justify their illegal proceedings, are essentially criminals.
True dat, if Trump wins it will probably be time to hunker down .... the left will likely implode and refuse to accept the result. Biden has already alluded to as much.
It's going to get sporty if that happens but it won't end like many on the left think it will.
It is time that these childish, angry Militia Rats be shut down once and for all. They are not PATRIOTIC. They are red necks, hopped up on their rage, drugs, moonshine, and a life of self-imposed misery.
HATERS have always been with us. These dimwitted morons, like the Oklahoma bombers, will be destroyed, jail, and/or executed as TRAITORS.
They are as delusional as school serial murderers. There is no ideology in PURE HATE, repressed jealousy.
What is the difference between these killers that the Jihadists killed over 3000 Americans on 9/11!
iolence is perfectly acceptable to fascists... as long as it is directed against democracy
. A party whose VP candidate paid for terrorists bail money has truly embraced violence. This summer's months long celebration and rationalization of daily violence by the left has been very illuminating.
What if people intend to vote for Biden but are telling polls they are for Trump?
Some will, some won't. Not in my control............nor yours........except on a personal level and whomever you can convince to get on the Never Trump train.
I did a little of that in the last election. I swear sometimes I would get 2 calls a day. Once they know you are willing to participate they will keep calling you and it gets to be too much! So I would switch up my answers and have a little fun.
The majority of Michiganders elected her. They know how to get rid of her if they want. I'm pretty sure the majority of Michiganders don't want these guys.
13 people is a violent take over? That is almost as dumb as they were. These idiots were several bricks short of a full load. Kidnap the governor and take her to Wisconsin for a secret trial. What the hell would that accomplish? Still would have a Democratic despot in charge of the Governorship, Secretary of States Office, and the AG of Michigan. Better still they were planning on doing this in several states, not just Michigan. They should be thankful they were caught; it prevented them from committing assisted suicide.
What they should have done is organized a "mostly peaceful protest" claimed a bunch of invisible far left outside agitators turned it into a riot; and burned Lansing to the ground- throwing in a good portion of looting, vandalism, assault, and maybe a few killings along the way. As per the Democrats "They are just angry, they have a right to be angry" That is the acceptable form of doing things.
First of all I’ll believe “tried” when I see proof of tried. A mass media that clearly has forgotten what unbiased journalism is, is not the best source for that. Second, she is just as responsible for her words as the TDS ridden left regularly accuses Trump of being.
"They did? Seems to me it was a bunch of drunk bastards with a problem.....................oh, and "plotting". Key word."
. . . . oh, and "conspiracy". Key word
In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future. Criminal law in some countries or for some conspiracies may require that at least one overt act be undertaken in furtherance of that agreement, to constitute an offense.
A group of nimwits took this joker literally and tried to come for Big Gretch . Just dangerous.
I keep waiting for a civil suit against Trump for encouraging all these criminal activities. What's going to happen when the Proud Boys are done "standing by"?
Just another balding incel white supremacist moron.
Unexpected! I didn't realize there was a connection between politics and male pattern baldness.
I wonder which is the chicken and which is the egg? Does having hair prevent you from being a white supremacist? Or is balding a sign that you are trending toward the dark side?
I didn't realize there was a connection between politics and male pattern baldness.
There isn't, the connection is to the involuntarily celibate. If there's any connection it's that young white males get angry and frustrated with being involuntarily celibate (often due to their right wing extremist conspiracy theory politics). Most women don't want to be with small minded poorly educated right wing bigots, especially the ones that are already balding by the time they're 25. That of course becomes a vicious cycle because these nut jobs get rejected and hole themselves up clutching their AR-15's and blaming their virginity and their violent anger towards women on "the left" and all those lesbians "stealing" their supposed women and the immigrants supposedly "stealing" their jobs.
Planning a crime by oneself is different than planning a crime with an accomplice, or group. Generally, when there is more than one person involved, and there is a plan to commit a crime, then under the law, there is a criminal conspiracy .
In addition to any criminal acts committed by anyone in the conspiracy, a person involved in a criminal conspiracy will likely be looking at serious felony charges and jail time. Also, if you just are just helping, or were planning to help, you could potentially be liable as an accomplice , even when a crime fails to be completed.
Still can't tell the difference between plotting to do something; and actually going out and doing it?
In America, conspiring to commit a crime, is also a crime.
In America, you don't have to wait until the crime has occurred if you have sufficient evidence to show the suspects have taken steps towards committing a crime.
In America, if police stop you in the middle of a bank robbery, before you get the money, YOU HAVE STILL COMMITTED THE CRIME.
You seemed confused about how law enforcement and criminal justice works, hope this helps your understanding.
"Still can't tell the difference between plotting to do something; and actually going out and doing it?"
In case you missed it the first time:
In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future. Criminal law in some countries or for some conspiracies may require that at least one overt act be undertaken in furtherance of that agreement, to constitute an offense.
Planning a crime by oneself is different than planning a crime with an accomplice, or group. Generally, when there is more than one person involved, and there is a plan to commit a crime, then under the law, there is a criminal conspiracy .
In addition to any criminal acts committed by anyone in the conspiracy, a person involved in a criminal conspiracy will likely be looking at serious felony charges and jail time. Also, if you just are just helping, or were planning to help, you could potentially be liable as an accomplice , even when a crime fails to be completed.
My question is....what gives them the right to try an elected official in a kangaroo court? Do they realize that they might have faced a federal capital murder charge if they had executed her? And the federal government still has the death penalty
Waiting for the Commander in Thief to proclaim that these guys got a raw deal, and then berate the FBI for wasting time protecting a nasty leftie governor when they should be arresting Obama and Joe Biden. Very unfair!!
Hard to imagine that; 'Birtherism---"I'm like a really smart guy"---"I'm really rich and I'll fund my own campaign"---to---"When you're a star you can do anything" was able to spawn crap like this.
The Trump campaign is low on cash. They have skipped ads in Iowa and Ohio for the last two weeks. Didn't Trump say he could finance his own campaign. Get to hoppin' there Trump.
Biden/Harris raked in $15 million after the Harris Pence debate.
Trump has said many things. Few of them true. Except maybe, "You'll have to check with Michael, he's my lawyer, you'll have to check with Michael."
For one thing the NRA is having serious legal and ethical issues. Doubt if much foreign money is being laundered through them now. The 'corpulent bridges' of Donald J. Trump are self destructing. Everything he touches burns.
Remember that great new NATA he renegotiated. Well, the great deal maker screwed up again. Our deficit with Mexico is larger with the ''wonderful, beautiful new agreement'' than it was under the old NAFTA.
Seems to me they deserve to be put in a "re-education camp" since they're considered to be terrorists planning violence. Now that I think of it, are not American prisons that provide continuing education for prisoners "re-education camps"?
I forgot about Gauntanamo Bay - thanks for reminding me about something I can say the next time someone criticizes the CCP re-education camps for the Uyghur separatist terrorists.
About 80 nations, including most of the Muslim ones, agree with China's vocational training of the Uyghurs. An essay about it written by and Egyptian and published in an Egyptian medium has been posted as an aricle on the Discovery group.
Interesting indeed. For what is said and for what is not said.......
It underscores the support that Arab states have given to China... although I'm not at all sure of the "popular sensitivity" of the regimes that gave that support.
I think it shows, above all, that those Arab regimes feel a much greater need for China's support than they feel anything at all about the Uyghurs.
As far as I can see, China will do as it pleases. This isn't the first time. Tibet got the same treatment thirty years ago, to total international indifference.
Yes, the internment was caused by the terrorism and separatism committed by a portion of the Uyghur people. Did you notice that there are about 11 million Uyghurs? Why have only around 2 million (if that's a correct figure) been interned? Why not ALL the Uyghurs? Isn't it obvious that 9 million are peaceful, and it is those who are or bound to become separatist terrorists who are interned? Did America differentiate between the peaceful Japanese Americans and those who could have been a danger when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, or did America put ALL Japanese Americans in internment camps? Pot-Kettle. The only terrorism that has been in China since then was an old deranged man who broke into a primary school and stabbed a bunch of children (and it was reported, because, contrary to China-haters belief, China DOES report those things). So how many acts of terrorism have occured in America in the past 3 years. Are you happy living in an atmosphere where people run and hide when they hear a motorcycle backfire? Maybe there is some truth to the story in the link you provided, and maybe there's some truth in the article I recommended for you to read. Maybe there is a mix of both - so anyone who is intelligent is going to realize that maybe the extremes, as expounded in the seed here posted by MAGA, should not be taken seriously.
You should try reading past the first five sentences, maybe reading the whole paragraph, before posting your comment. You'll say you did, but your comment establishes that you were not open to accept what was contrary to existing prejudices.
That's not a judgment. It's a statement of fact. The Uyghurs are helpless against China, and there's no one coming to their aid. The US, the EU, and the Arabs are all staying away.
That could mean that they take China's part... or it could mean that they know which side their bread is buttered on... or it could mean that this battle just doesn't interest them enough.
I know that the Bureau of Land Management has been more or less giving away concessions on Federal land... but why would they want to kidnap the governor?
He would probably be kidnapped. I don't think Chris Wray's FBI spends much time infiltrating BLM or antifa.
Don't you mean Trump's DOJ and FBI Vic? After all, Trump just took credit for the arrests in Michigan and insists that Whitmer should thank HIM.
Oh and BTFW, informants went to the Michigan LEO's about the plot and the CHS were existing members of the group. In short, the FBI didn't infiltrate anything.
Remember, YOU are the one that claimed that facts matter.
"Members of the group bought weapons, conducted surveillance and held training and planning meetings , but they were foiled in part because the FBI infiltrated the group with informants , according to a criminal complaint."
No matter how many times I GIVE you and yours links to prove my statements you all continue to insist that I never back up my comments.
So go pound sand.
Instead of ROTHFLYAO, do your own research, just like I did. You didn't seem to have any trouble finding an article that you think bolstered your comment, use those same skills to review some FACTS.
Never said that y'all didn't read them Jim, just said y'all consistently allege I NEVER provide them.
That and your ROTFLYAO emoji are weak motivation for me to waste my time providing you and yours with links that I spent MY time garnering and reviewing so that I could more accurately converse with those that actually care about FACTS.
Admit it - Jim nailed it. He provided the facts! You said they didn't infiltrate and you were proved wrong!
Actually Vic, any thinking person will recognize that Jim quoted the statement of MSM journalists, who are members of a group that you and yours decry as 'enemies of the people'.
Never have dissed USA Today. Of the MSM, they are closer to the center than MSNBC, CNN, Mother Jones, VOX and a shitload more. They said according to the damned complaint. Just stop. [deleted] Not my problem. Now, show your version of the report or just piss off............................
What say you about the Detroit Free Press, since THAT is where the journalists that you quoted actually work?
They said according to the damned complaint. Just stop.
Yes, I read that. I for one prefer to pursue the ORIGINAL document and READ it for myself. But you be you...
You got your ass handed to you and you don't like it.
You and your buddy can believe what you want. I'll rely on facts I garner from the source rather than on journalists telling me what the source says. But again Jim, you be you.
Not my problem. Now, show your version of the report or just piss off............................
I don't have my 'version' of the report Jim, I only have the same access as YOU do to the DOJ 'version' of the report.
My comments are not based on my opinion, they are based on the FACTS.
Just admit that Jim proved you wrong instead of going on with this.
But he hasn't Vic, and NEITHER of you have any evidence that he has. Some here don't swill everything journalists serve up and rely on our own reading of the evidence. But as I told Jim, you be you Vic.
It did and you were given the proof.
No Vic, I was given an unfounded statement by journalists. If you and Jim want to accept that as proof, so be it. I don't.
Denying it looks bad.
Actually Vic, you and Jim insisting that I take the word of journalists over the DOJ documentation that I have read for myself is what looks bad.
Yet I really could NOT care less how YOU or Jim think it makes me look because even if I GIVE you the documents I have read you'll be saying that I NEVER support my claims tomorrow. So go pound sand.
I'm trying to give you good advice with all due respect.
Show your work. And unfounded? The article stated it was from the report. So again, if you can, show the difference between what you "have read" and what the news report said or you have nothing. Period.
My comments are not based on my opinion, they are based on the FACTS.
The fact is the link Jim posted in 19.3.3. You have been denying it. You claimed they didn't infiltrate. You were proved wrong.
But he hasn't Vic
But he has - that's how we do it here on NT - we provide a link to back up what we say. You consistently refuse to accept it.
No Vic, I was given an unfounded statement by journalists.
No Dulay, you were given proof.
Actually Vic, you and Jim insisting that I take the word of journalists over the DOJ documentation that I have read for myself is what looks bad.
I beg to differ. Not only won't you accept a fact, but you choose to contest it without offering anything to counter it. I'm really trying to offer you good advice.
So go pound sand.
No, I have to respond to such a denial of facts. We were told to back up what we say here. Jim has done that. I'm standing with him.
Please post a link if you can, I would like to read that myself, because Dulay has assured us all that there was NO infiltration by the FBI.
Let's see!
I sure hope that the argument that the FBI didn't infiltrate doesn't include "well, technically, the FBI didn't do it, there was an informant who wasn't FBI!"
If they are employees of the FBI then they were infiltrated. PERIOD!
Infiltrate:
Gain access.
The CHS are how the UCE 'gained access' to the group. It's not like the FBI had an eye on these guys before the CHS came forward to the local PD. [see below]
An FBI developed informant.
Your bold highlight doesn't prove that claim.
It implies that the FBI just stumbled across a willing member of the group.
In fact, since your buddies think that statements from journalists are definitive proof, there's this:
A local police department learned in March that members were trying to obtain addresses of local law-enforcement officers, according to the News. Following that discovery, the FBI says it began tracking the militia.
“At the time, the FBI interviewed a member of the militia group who was concerned about the group’s plans to target and kill police officers, and that person agreed to become a (confidential source),” the agent wrote.
So are you open to the possibility that the informant that you claim the FBI developed had already come forward to the local PD and agreed to become a CHS for the FBI?
BTW, why didn't you provide your buddies with the link that they have been bitching about but were too lazy to look up themselves? How long did it take you to access the complaint? Yesterday, it took me about 10 seconds.
It wouldn't hurt for them to read about how the documented actions started in June and the first time a 'UCE' is mentioned in those actions is in September on the 12th and 13th and that is the ONLY time. The last 'action' is dated Oct. 7th.
here's the local yokel sheriff that's defending them, shown at a presser earlier this year. hmmm.... what are those yellow patches on one guys arm and the others hat? antifa? no. the kidnappers appear to be associated, if not members, of a different domestic terrorist group. the tea party. how quaint.
here's the local yokel sheriff that's defending them, shown at a presser earlier this year. hmmm.... what are those yellow patches on one guys arm and the others hat? antifa? no. the kidnappers appear to be associated, if not members, of a different domestic terrorist group. the tea party. how quaint.
LANSING — The federal government has charged six people with conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, according to newly unsealed court records.
The FBI became aware early in 2020, through social media, that a militia group was "discussing the violent overthrow of certain government and law enforcement components," and "agreed to take violent action," according to a sworn affidavit.
Members of the group talked about "murdering ... tyrants" or "taking" a sitting governor, according to the affidavit. One of the relevant meetings the FBI monitored was held June 20 in Grand Rapids. the affidavit alleges.
The group met for field exercises and training this year and conducted surveillance of the the governor's vacation home on at least two occasions in late August and September, the affidavit alleges.
Discussions included using 200 men to "storm" the Capitol Building in Lansing, kidnap hostages, including, Whitmer and try the governor for treason, according to the affidavit.
"All of us can disagree about politics, but those disagreements should never, ever result in violence," said U.S. Attorney Matthew Schneider in the Eastern District of Michigan. "The allegations in this complaint are deeply disturbing. We owe are thanks to the men and women of law enforcement who uncovered this plot and have worked so hard to protect Gov. Whitmer."
Charged in the U.S. District Court in the western district of Michigan are: Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, and Brandon Caserta, according to a criminal complaint. They are charged with conspiracy to commit kidnapping, according to the complaint.
All are residents of Michigan except Croft, who is a resident of Delaware, the complaint alleges.
More than a dozen people from several states met in Dublin, Ohio on June 6 and talked about creating a society that followed the U.S. Bill of Rights, in which they could be self-sufficient.
golly, I hope they had the foresight to vote early for trump before this, just in case ... /s
"One of the militiamen accused of plotting to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer railed that President Trump was a “tyrant” and called all government workers “your enemy.”
https://nypost.com/2020/10/09/man-accused-of-whitmer-kidnap-plot-ripped-trump-as-tyrant/?utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
I could have made an error. who's the nazi or klan candidates this year? oh wait, that sounds redundant x3 ...
Unlike the far left, they don't seem to have one.
The "news" is now reporting 13 arrested?
Well, it looks like the anarchists, true to form, think all government leaders are tyrants, including President Trump.
Brandon Caserta is one of the ringleaders in the foiled plot to kidnap the governor and video reportedly of Caserta shows the suspect calling President Trump a "tyrant" and an "enemy."
"Trump is not your friend, dude," Caserta says. "And it amazes me that people actually believe that when he's shown over and over and over again that he's a tyrant. Every single person that works for government is your enemy, dude."
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/10/08/anarchist-who-plotted-against-whitmer-also-said-this-about-president-trump-n2577750
Do you EVER research what you post Xx?
Of the 5 men arrested by the feds, the FBI complain cites Adam FOX - 92Xs, Barry CROFT - 27Xs, Ty GARBIN - 42Xs, Kaleb FRANKS - 35Xs, Daniel HARRIS -18xs, and Brandon CASERTA 2Xs.
Brandon Caserta is NO 'ringleader' Xx.
I thought that Townhall was a far right wing propaganda site that was banned here.
just the german language version ...
Perrie?
The 13 men arrested for allegedly plotting to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and possibly spark a new civil war drank an impressive variety of flavors of far-right, fringe Kool Aid.
There was Eric Molitor, a 36-year-old whose Facebook page gushed about 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse, the Blue Lives Matter wannabe militiaman accused of killing two people in Kenosha, Wisconsin, this summer. Molitor now faces state charges of providing material support for terrorist acts and carrying a firearm during the commission of a felony.
As The Daily Beast previously reported , he was also apparently a fan of QAnon, the disturbingly mainstream conspiracy theory “movement” that holds President Trump is quietly, nobly doing battle with a cadre of pedophiles who happen to inhabit the highest levels of the government. The suspect posted the “Save Our Children,” hashtag, a seemingly innocuous cause that has increasingly come to resemble a collective delusion that in some cases has allegedly inspired people to kidnap their own children.
He was also apparently into Three Percenter-style militia activity, which long predates QAnon and is premised around the false idea that 3 percent of Revolutionary War-era colonists fought in that conflict. Three Percenters have been a regular—armed—presence at a slew of violent protests in recent years, the deadly Unite the Rally among them.
Then there’s Brandon Caserta.
As The Detroit News and NBC News reported , the suspect in the federal case against Whitmer’s alleged wannabe kidnappers appeared in at least one video in a Hawaiian shirt, a trademark of the Boogaloo Movement obsessed with sparking the next civil war. Unlike some of your typical far-right militia diehards, this crowd at least sometimes purports to be concerned with law-enforcement excesses, and even take a special interest—as some Michigan suspects allegedly did—in killing cops. Boogaloo members have been arrested or implicated in an array of attacks and schemes in recents months, from an alleged plot to help Hamas to another to destroy federal infrastructure to actual cop killings.
A federal law-enforcement official told NBC News the seven “Wolverine Watchmen” at the center of the state case were Boogaloo affiliated. But the outlet also cited Caserta pivoting swiftly from Joe Rogan fandom to pandemic conspiracy.
If you’re having a tough time keeping track of the various fringe and far-right affiliations here, you’re not alone. The Trump era has long brought out the crazy, but the early indicators are that the Whitmer case was stoked by a sort of witches brew of far-right ideologies that have flourished on his watch. Sure enough, the president actually tweeted half-defensively about the plot against Whitmer late Thursday, insisting he was against “extreme violence” while basically stoking more ire for a governor who has gotten to him like few others.
“This is just another example of how these anti-government groups get agitated and invigorated when you have a president calling them to action,” Daryl Johnson, a former Department of Homeland Security analyst of far-right extremism, told The Daily Beast.
The precise nature of the affiliations of the defendants in the Whitmer saga is still coming into focus. Some of their activity appeared to be little more sophisticated than angry men firing guns and driving their neighbors insane.
“They thought it was a meth house because there was trash blowing all over the place,” one Munith, Michigan, resident who requested anonymity for fear of reprisal said of fellow residents’ impression of a home inhabited by two suspects, Joseph Morrison and Pete Musico , tied to the “Wolverine Watchmen” case. Both are charged with terrorism, gang membership, providing material support for terrorist acts, and firearms felonies.
Social profiles tied to Musico showed interest in everything from bogus memes that white people are being slaughtered in South Africa to far-right Proud Boys to anti-Semitism to Alex Jones.
In other cases, people who knew the suspects struggled to make sense of what they described, at least, as a seemingly rapid descent into radicalization.
“I’m very surprised because he’s just not like that,” R. Miller, a neighbor of 38-year-old state terrorism suspect Shawn Fix, Told The Daily Beast late Thursday, adding, “Maybe [he] got mixed up with the wrong people and that changed his way of thinking.”
As the suspects’ cases proceed, more will inevitably come to light about just how they appear to have become infatuated with far-right violence, and why a pandemic lockdown loathed by millions allegedly drove them to terrorism. What we already know, experts said, is that this climate is incredibly inviting to this sort of fringe descent—and a disturbing run-up to an election widely expected to feature far-right violence is officially underway.
“We’re at a heightened state of risk right now and that’s my greatest concern, that these groups that have been carrying guns to protests end up shooting,” Johnson said.
Trumpism taken to its next level.
You can bet 100% of these guys are Trump supporters.
=================================================================
So do I. I still haven't recovered from Trump calling her 'that woman.'
Regarding the kidnapping plot, watch Trump say, "I don't know these people, I've never met these people, but I hear that they like me. That's important."
Considering the level of coverage this will get in Michigan, and national, media, this probably puts an end to any hope Trump had of winning Michigan.
Not quite sure about that John. There is a multitude of people that got pissed with her for her Draconian shut down rules. Like no veggy seeds or plants to be sold. We shall see for sure in 26 days
Trump is already losing in the polls in the state. What is your theory that news of a plotted violent takeover of the state government would be beneficial in winning Trump the undecideds there ?
I's sure the majority of Michigan citizens would like to see her gone, for all the stupidity she displayed.
You seemingly don't understand how normal people feel and think.
Are you kidding?
They will have to re-elect him so he can pardon these clowns.
/s
I would suggest to you that you read 2.1.4 again, because that it is the answer.
She has a 59% approval rating, so a few people must approve of her handling of the virus.
She has a 59% approval rating on her handling of the corona virus. So which majority are you talking about?
You don't seem to have a good grip on facts pertaining to MI or Whitmer.
Yeah and I have been contacted in two polls in the last 3 weeks and told them I was voting for Biden. And trust me, I am sure I am NOT alone. You can believe polls but I don't. Again, we shall see.
What if people intend to vote for Biden but are telling polls they are for Trump?
I'm sure that you're not, some friends and I do the same every time we are surveyed, we say Trump.
Never happen, if they plotted what they allegedly plotted but if it helps for you to think it would, by all means keep thinning that .....
That's a good question.
I suspect that there are some repentant 2016 Trump voters who are embarrassed to tell their Trumpist friends and neighbors that they've realized how badly their Glorious Leader has been screwing them. They have spent four years exchanging Trumpist slogans, and now they don't know how to say "We've been bamboozled!"
I don't know how many they are, but they could swing some results.
More nonsensical rants from the hive ..... a charcuterie of crazed leftist narrative to be sure
We'll see, in just a few weeks...
I hope they get their maga hats back, in about 50 years ...
Just Jim NC TttH: Anyone that supports, promoting, or believe that this is acceptable is a threat to this nation and should be treated as a potential domestic TERRORIST.
Armed, under-educated, RIGHT-WING MILITIA GROUPS, regardless of the name that they appropriate to justify their illegal proceedings, are essentially criminals.
True dat, if Trump wins it will probably be time to hunker down .... the left will likely implode and refuse to accept the result. Biden has already alluded to as much.
It's going to get sporty if that happens but it won't end like many on the left think it will.
Not even close ....
Violence is perfectly acceptable to fascists... as long as it is directed against democracy.
It is time that these childish, angry Militia Rats be shut down once and for all. They are not PATRIOTIC. They are red necks, hopped up on their rage, drugs, moonshine, and a life of self-imposed misery.
HATERS have always been with us. These dimwitted morons, like the Oklahoma bombers, will be destroyed, jail, and/or executed as TRAITORS.
They are as delusional as school serial murderers. There is no ideology in PURE HATE, repressed jealousy.
What is the difference between these killers that the Jihadists killed over 3000 Americans on 9/11!
True, we've been seeing it in large quantities in some of our big cities for months now ..... more or less non-stop, fascist violence
I agree .... jail all antifa pukes ..... toot sweet! But i'm fine with execution as well since you brought it up .....
A plate of cold meat and cheeses ?
. A party whose VP candidate paid for terrorists bail money has truly embraced violence. This summer's months long celebration and rationalization of daily violence by the left has been very illuminating.
Liked that literary device did ya?
Using a word erroniously is not a literary device. Maybe you meant "cornucopia".
Some will, some won't. Not in my control............nor yours........except on a personal level and whomever you can convince to get on the Never Trump train.
Don't disagree with you. I was pointing out that JR shouldn't rely on his crystal ball and abacus just yet or Ouija board to predict Michigan.
I guess some like to read things into what is typed so they can argue with the air.
I did a little of that in the last election. I swear sometimes I would get 2 calls a day. Once they know you are willing to participate they will keep calling you and it gets to be too much! So I would switch up my answers and have a little fun.
Meh, i guess Allegory isn't for everyone but fine. Cornucopia works as well but in a more literal sense.
Feel free to use that in your applicable posts. I'll stick with my original intent.
See 1.3.
Yum.
We'll pardon your French.
The majority of Michiganders elected her. They know how to get rid of her if they want. I'm pretty sure the majority of Michiganders don't want these guys.
I didn't realize I was hungry until just now. (After I had to look up the meaning and then saw the Harry and David Gourmet offerings...)
You know I think that is really messed up. Now fake-outs on polls is a game?
What does that mean?
Doesn't the teacher in you want to tell them to grow up?
Okay I would like to have you answer this. Just what is the harm?
Only in far right wing Trumpworld could a governor be trashed for attempting to keep her constituents safe from a lethal disease.
The whole thing happened due to her being on the VP shortlist.
This is what the far right wing has come to.
She is not fit to be governor
Voters seem to disagree...
You mean voters count? So it's not simply about removing people some don't like?
Got it!
Vic,
In local elections, voters count.
Perrie,
They count in national elections too!
So, per our liberal friends, they are mostly peaceful protesters.
When was the last time you posted a comment that didnt involve whataboutism ?
That's is hilarious coming from you John.
Very jocular!
Maybe the last time you took a consistent position on a topic?
so is it opposing kidnapping but supporting the use of Molotov cocktails now? Is that the position of the day?
when have i supported the use of molotov cocktails? you seem to be confused.
Exactly! Well said.
It has been documented that proud boys and boogaloo instigated all violence and destruction.
Not a surprise.
She's pissed a shitload of people off with her "shotgun style" totalitarian policies.
But don't take my word for it:
Yup.
That certainly justifies a violent takeover.
Yup...
Yup ... your words not mine ..... yup .....
13 people is a violent take over? That is almost as dumb as they were. These idiots were several bricks short of a full load. Kidnap the governor and take her to Wisconsin for a secret trial. What the hell would that accomplish? Still would have a Democratic despot in charge of the Governorship, Secretary of States Office, and the AG of Michigan. Better still they were planning on doing this in several states, not just Michigan. They should be thankful they were caught; it prevented them from committing assisted suicide.
What they should have done is organized a "mostly peaceful protest" claimed a bunch of invisible far left outside agitators turned it into a riot; and burned Lansing to the ground- throwing in a good portion of looting, vandalism, assault, and maybe a few killings along the way. As per the Democrats "They are just angry, they have a right to be angry" That is the acceptable form of doing things.
.
So it's her fault these turds tried to kidnap her... Got it.
That's like blaming the survivor of a rape
First of all I’ll believe “tried” when I see proof of tried. A mass media that clearly has forgotten what unbiased journalism is, is not the best source for that. Second, she is just as responsible for her words as the TDS ridden left regularly accuses Trump of being.
Got it?
So victim blaming. GOT IT.
Nah, you don’t “got it” otherwise you wouldn’t regularly DO IT.
No, I got your number.
Nah, like usual you’ve got nothing in that regard .... not a thing but ..... SOSDD considering.
Is that a dimwitted nimrod?
Nimrod: noun - an inept person
Dimwit: noun - a stupid or silly person
Urban Dictionary: Nimwit: noun - A slackjawed moron who self righteously complains and whines
I guess the Urban dictionary does nail many of those taking Trump seriously or literally and who support his insane rhetoric.
used AR-15's for sale cheap. only been dropped once. make offer. contact local tea party field marshal.
That's my boy!
They did? Seems to me it was a bunch of drunk bastards with a problem.....................oh, and "plotting". Key word.
"They did? Seems to me it was a bunch of drunk bastards with a problem.....................oh, and "plotting". Key word."
. . . . oh, and "conspiracy". Key word
In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future. Criminal law in some countries or for some conspiracies may require that at least one overt act be undertaken in furtherance of that agreement, to constitute an offense.
I keep waiting for a civil suit against Trump for encouraging all these criminal activities. What's going to happen when the Proud Boys are done "standing by"?
This is Barry Croft:
These are the ideological godchildren of Timothy McVeigh.
He looks stupid enough to do this...
Just another balding incel white supremacist moron.
See there go ... bagging on bald people.
Just can't help yourself can you....
Pictures can be deceiving:
Unexpected! I didn't realize there was a connection between politics and male pattern baldness.
I wonder which is the chicken and which is the egg? Does having hair prevent you from being a white supremacist? Or is balding a sign that you are trending toward the dark side?
And what does it mean that I shave my head?
You shouldn't be so cruel to your fellow right wing conservatives.
There isn't, the connection is to the involuntarily celibate. If there's any connection it's that young white males get angry and frustrated with being involuntarily celibate (often due to their right wing extremist conspiracy theory politics). Most women don't want to be with small minded poorly educated right wing bigots, especially the ones that are already balding by the time they're 25. That of course becomes a vicious cycle because these nut jobs get rejected and hole themselves up clutching their AR-15's and blaming their virginity and their violent anger towards women on "the left" and all those lesbians "stealing" their supposed women and the immigrants supposedly "stealing" their jobs.
Here are more mug shots: They all have that incel look
Adam Fox
Brandon Caserta
Kaleb Franks
Daniel Harris
Ty Garbin
Gee...
Pics or it just ain't true.
meh, those right wing domestic terrorists are all talk and harmless ... /s
Cool, then what's the left worried about? ...... /s
And Trump did say it was only ANTIFA doing all of this violent crap.
Still can't tell the difference between plotting to do something; and actually going out and doing it?
Just because they didn't/weren't able to carry it out, doesn't mean they can't be found guilty for conspiring to do it.
So is it your ridiculous posit that the FBI should have WAITED for them to carry out their plan before they arrested them?
If NOT, WTF is your point.
They are being charged with terror-related acts, among other things.
The feds seem to take that plotting thing quite seriously.
Criminal Conspiracy Is a Serious Crime
Planning a crime by oneself is different than planning a crime with an accomplice, or group. Generally, when there is more than one person involved, and there is a plan to commit a crime, then under the law, there is a criminal conspiracy .
In addition to any criminal acts committed by anyone in the conspiracy, a person involved in a criminal conspiracy will likely be looking at serious felony charges and jail time. Also, if you just are just helping, or were planning to help, you could potentially be liable as an accomplice , even when a crime fails to be completed.
This is a very informative website.
You seemed confused about how law enforcement and criminal justice works, hope this helps your understanding.
"Criminal Conspiracy Is a Serious Crime
Planning a crime by oneself is different than planning a crime with an accomplice, or group. Generally, when there is more than one person involved, and there is a plan to commit a crime, then under the law, there is a criminal conspiracy .
In addition to any criminal acts committed by anyone in the conspiracy, a person involved in a criminal conspiracy will likely be looking at serious felony charges and jail time. Also, if you just are just helping, or were planning to help, you could potentially be liable as an accomplice , even when a crime fails to be completed.
This is a very informative website."
FACTS/SHMACTS!
I think Gretchen is kinda hot - for a politician. I'd kidnap her. But you know, in the good way.
I agree, for a politician she is easy on the eyes.
I love ya, but...
My question is....what gives them the right to try an elected official in a kangaroo court? Do they realize that they might have faced a federal capital murder charge if they had executed her? And the federal government still has the death penalty
Their IQ is in the single digits? Not much thinking going on there.
Maybe they were/are counting on Trump to pardon them.
Latest update on this case.
13 charged in plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer
Some background information on the Wolverine Watchmen, the milta group that are now facing very serious charges.
Love the photo of them flying the Confederate flag.
They would bring her back after a few hours.
Or murder her.
That's what I think they would do. But some people would probably celebrate that
"They would bring her back after a few hours."
So that would make it all okay? No harm done?
Well, she is a liberal democrat so kidnapping is ok, doesn't matter it's a federal offense
Riiiiiggghhhtt
Waiting for the Commander in Thief to proclaim that these guys got a raw deal, and then berate the FBI for wasting time protecting a nasty leftie governor when they should be arresting Obama and Joe Biden. Very unfair!!
Seems Hillary is still on Trump's radar. She is still much smarter.
Hard to imagine that; 'Birtherism---"I'm like a really smart guy"---"I'm really rich and I'll fund my own campaign"---to---"When you're a star you can do anything" was able to spawn crap like this.
MAGA my arse.
The Trump campaign is low on cash. They have skipped ads in Iowa and Ohio for the last two weeks. Didn't Trump say he could finance his own campaign. Get to hoppin' there Trump.
Biden/Harris raked in $15 million after the Harris Pence debate.
Trump has said many things. Few of them true. Except maybe, "You'll have to check with Michael, he's my lawyer, you'll have to check with Michael."
For one thing the NRA is having serious legal and ethical issues. Doubt if much foreign money is being laundered through them now. The 'corpulent bridges' of Donald J. Trump are self destructing. Everything he touches burns.
Mexico's gonna pay for it.
There are still on the hook for the wall...lol
Remember that great new NATA he renegotiated. Well, the great deal maker screwed up again. Our deficit with Mexico is larger with the ''wonderful, beautiful new agreement'' than it was under the old NAFTA.
Is that the one he plucked out of his suit pocket in front of the cameras?
Even we at the Dharma initiative recognize Trump as evil.
"Is that the one he plucked out of his suit pocket in front of the cameras?"
The one that looked like maybe half a page, that one?
Evil? Or the real 'Manchurian candidate'?
Seems to me they deserve to be put in a "re-education camp" since they're considered to be terrorists planning violence. Now that I think of it, are not American prisons that provide continuing education for prisoners "re-education camps"?
Guantanamo Bay has some open cells.
I forgot about Gauntanamo Bay - thanks for reminding me about something I can say the next time someone criticizes the CCP re-education camps for the Uyghur separatist terrorists.
Aren't the Uyghur's a Muslim sect?
You know that will be the only time the rightwingers here will defend a Muslim
About 80 nations, including most of the Muslim ones, agree with China's vocational training of the Uyghurs. An essay about it written by and Egyptian and published in an Egyptian medium has been posted as an aricle on the Discovery group.
Did I say something wrong?
Bullshit!
This is interesting and gave me some insight as to what is going on with the Uyghurs.
Interesting indeed. For what is said and for what is not said.......
It underscores the support that Arab states have given to China... although I'm not at all sure of the "popular sensitivity" of the regimes that gave that support.
I think it shows, above all, that those Arab regimes feel a much greater need for China's support than they feel anything at all about the Uyghurs.
As far as I can see, China will do as it pleases. This isn't the first time. Tibet got the same treatment thirty years ago, to total international indifference.
I don't think you did - did anyone think so?
Yes, the internment was caused by the terrorism and separatism committed by a portion of the Uyghur people. Did you notice that there are about 11 million Uyghurs? Why have only around 2 million (if that's a correct figure) been interned? Why not ALL the Uyghurs? Isn't it obvious that 9 million are peaceful, and it is those who are or bound to become separatist terrorists who are interned? Did America differentiate between the peaceful Japanese Americans and those who could have been a danger when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, or did America put ALL Japanese Americans in internment camps? Pot-Kettle. The only terrorism that has been in China since then was an old deranged man who broke into a primary school and stabbed a bunch of children (and it was reported, because, contrary to China-haters belief, China DOES report those things). So how many acts of terrorism have occured in America in the past 3 years. Are you happy living in an atmosphere where people run and hide when they hear a motorcycle backfire? Maybe there is some truth to the story in the link you provided, and maybe there's some truth in the article I recommended for you to read. Maybe there is a mix of both - so anyone who is intelligent is going to realize that maybe the extremes, as expounded in the seed here posted by MAGA, should not be taken seriously.
Yes Bob, maybe they've been taking lessons from Trump.
Why have only around 2 million (if that's a correct figure) been internedo
imagine thinking that Helpsyour case.
You should try reading past the first five sentences, maybe reading the whole paragraph, before posting your comment. You'll say you did, but your comment establishes that you were not open to accept what was contrary to existing prejudices.
That's not a judgment. It's a statement of fact. The Uyghurs are helpless against China, and there's no one coming to their aid. The US, the EU, and the Arabs are all staying away.
That could mean that they take China's part... or it could mean that they know which side their bread is buttered on... or it could mean that this battle just doesn't interest them enough.
Whatever.
China will do as it pleases.
Imagine BLM plotted to kidnap Tex Gov Abbott...
I know that the Bureau of Land Management has been more or less giving away concessions on Federal land... but why would they want to kidnap the governor?
He would probably be kidnapped. I don't think Chris Wray's FBI spends much time infiltrating BLM or antifa.
Don't you mean Trump's DOJ and FBI Vic? After all, Trump just took credit for the arrests in Michigan and insists that Whitmer should thank HIM.
Oh and BTFW, informants went to the Michigan LEO's about the plot and the CHS were existing members of the group. In short, the FBI didn't infiltrate anything.
Remember, YOU are the one that claimed that facts matter.
Nope, I said what I meant. I'm sorry if some don't like it.
"Members of the group bought weapons, conducted surveillance and held training and planning meetings , but they were foiled in part because the FBI infiltrated the group with informants , according to a criminal complaint."
I couldn't care less either way, I just thought that maybe you missed the memo...
So are you now claiming that you believe that FAKE NEWS from the MSM?
MY comment is based on the statements in the FBI complaint and ACCURATELY characterizes what the FBI documented.
[deleted]
Nope.
No matter how many times I GIVE you and yours links to prove my statements you all continue to insist that I never back up my comments.
So go pound sand.
Instead of ROTHFLYAO, do your own research, just like I did. You didn't seem to have any trouble finding an article that you think bolstered your comment, use those same skills to review some FACTS.
And just WHAT didn't you understand about this from the article?
I've never not read a provided link unlike some here who don't WANT to see things differently so, have at it.........................I'm all eyes.
Admit it - Jim nailed it. He provided the facts!
You said they didn't infiltrate and you were proved wrong!
Never said that y'all didn't read them Jim, just said y'all consistently allege I NEVER provide them.
That and your ROTFLYAO emoji are weak motivation for me to waste my time providing you and yours with links that I spent MY time garnering and reviewing so that I could more accurately converse with those that actually care about FACTS.
Actually Vic, any thinking person will recognize that Jim quoted the statement of MSM journalists, who are members of a group that you and yours decry as 'enemies of the people'.
FAIL.
Actually Dulay, you were proved wrong. DECISIVELY SO!
Admitting it would be the right thing to do.
Everyone makes a mistake.
You have a right to your own opinion but not your own facts.
First of all, why would I admit to something that never happened?
Secondly, I await the day you follow your own advice.
Yet in this thread, I made no mistake.
Never have dissed USA Today. Of the MSM, they are closer to the center than MSNBC, CNN, Mother Jones, VOX and a shitload more. They said according to the damned complaint. Just stop. [deleted] Not my problem. Now, show your version of the report or just piss off............................
Nice slogan - In this case it applies to you. Just admit that Jim proved you wrong instead of going on with this.
First of all, why would I admit to something that never happened?
It did and you were given the proof. Denying it looks bad. I'm trying to give you good advice with all due respect.
What say you about the Detroit Free Press, since THAT is where the journalists that you quoted actually work?
Yes, I read that. I for one prefer to pursue the ORIGINAL document and READ it for myself. But you be you...
You and your buddy can believe what you want. I'll rely on facts I garner from the source rather than on journalists telling me what the source says. But again Jim, you be you.
I don't have my 'version' of the report Jim, I only have the same access as YOU do to the DOJ 'version' of the report.
My comments are not based on my opinion, they are based on the FACTS.
But he hasn't Vic, and NEITHER of you have any evidence that he has. Some here don't swill everything journalists serve up and rely on our own reading of the evidence. But as I told Jim, you be you Vic.
No Vic, I was given an unfounded statement by journalists. If you and Jim want to accept that as proof, so be it. I don't.
Actually Vic, you and Jim insisting that I take the word of journalists over the DOJ documentation that I have read for myself is what looks bad.
Yet I really could NOT care less how YOU or Jim think it makes me look because even if I GIVE you the documents I have read you'll be saying that I NEVER support my claims tomorrow. So go pound sand.
That dog don't hunt.
Show your work. And unfounded? The article stated it was from the report. So again, if you can, show the difference between what you "have read" and what the news report said or you have nothing. Period.
The fact is the link Jim posted in 19.3.3. You have been denying it. You claimed they didn't infiltrate. You were proved wrong.
But he hasn't Vic
But he has - that's how we do it here on NT - we provide a link to back up what we say. You consistently refuse to accept it.
No Vic, I was given an unfounded statement by journalists.
No Dulay, you were given proof.
Actually Vic, you and Jim insisting that I take the word of journalists over the DOJ documentation that I have read for myself is what looks bad.
I beg to differ. Not only won't you accept a fact, but you choose to contest it without offering anything to counter it. I'm really trying to offer you good advice.
So go pound sand.
No, I have to respond to such a denial of facts. We were told to back up what we say here. Jim has done that. I'm standing with him.
Please post a link if you can, I would like to read that myself, because Dulay has assured us all that there was NO infiltration by the FBI.
Let's see!
I sure hope that the argument that the FBI didn't infiltrate doesn't include "well, technically, the FBI didn't do it, there was an informant who wasn't FBI!"
excellent and thank you!
well, some here demand exacting standards of precision with each and every word. so who knows how this will be spun?
Infiltrate:
The CHS are how the UCE 'gained access' to the group. It's not like the FBI had an eye on these guys before the CHS came forward to the local PD. [see below]
Your bold highlight doesn't prove that claim.
It implies that the FBI just stumbled across a willing member of the group.
In fact, since your buddies think that statements from journalists are definitive proof, there's this:
So are you open to the possibility that the informant that you claim the FBI developed had already come forward to the local PD and agreed to become a CHS for the FBI?
BTW, why didn't you provide your buddies with the link that they have been bitching about but were too lazy to look up themselves? How long did it take you to access the complaint? Yesterday, it took me about 10 seconds.
It wouldn't hurt for them to read about how the documented actions started in June and the first time a 'UCE' is mentioned in those actions is in September on the 12th and 13th and that is the ONLY time. The last 'action' is dated Oct. 7th.
Actually, the one you quoted from is here:
You linked the FBI complaint.
Suspects in Whitmer plot photographed with long guns at Michigan Capitol
Oh...wow.....Can't wait for the prosecutors to show this at the trial
here's the local yokel sheriff that's defending them, shown at a presser earlier this year. hmmm.... what are those yellow patches on one guys arm and the others hat? antifa? no. the kidnappers appear to be associated, if not members, of a different domestic terrorist group. the tea party. how quaint.
here's the local yokel sheriff that's defending them, shown at a presser earlier this year. hmmm.... what are those yellow patches on one guys arm and the others hat? antifa? no. the kidnappers appear to be associated, if not members, of a different domestic terrorist group. the tea party. how quaint.
sorry about the double post. I spaced the picture on the first one and timed out on the edit.
It will be Whitmer vs the witless.
Radical Left: Can we have healthcare please?
Radical Right: Lets kidnap a governor and overthrow the government.
Aha!!
You've gone over to the Dark Side.
Bothsidesism!