Donald Trump attempted to overthrow the government of the United States
A Trump lawyer wrote an instruction manual for a coup. Why haven’t you seen it on the news?
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Donald Trump attempted to overthrow the government of the United States
Neither he nor any of his many many co-conspirators throughout the national and state Republican parties have suffered any legal consequences for this. One reason is that the details of this story, which are still emerging nine months later, are not currently being treated as an actual news story by the news media:
There have not been a lot of attempts to depose elected American presidents in my lifetime, though I’m only 34. Not knowing for sure what happens when you dissociate “peaceful transfer of power” from “a society entirely predicated on it,” I sort of think this is a pretty big deal. This is a break-the-glass moment, as some have said, only someone else already broke the glass and took the axe and is running around with it.
It is a little weird to read all these months later about something that was also plain as day at the time. Thursday marked the one-year anniversary of a Barton Gellman article in The Atlantic that laid out the strategy that Trump, with Eastman and others’ help, would pursue. Mother Jones and others covered closely the efforts from the Trump campaign to throw out votes in courts and disenfranchise entire states. My colleague Becca Andrews was even in Atlanta on December 14 when Georgia Republicans showed up at the Capitol to endorse their own pretend slate of Trump electors—a bizarre sideshow that was nonetheless part of a scattershot, collective pretext for the strategy Eastman spelled out. January 6 happened on live TV. But what was described on those couple of pages is what all the stunts and subterfuge were building up to—notes, as it were, on a criminal fucking conspiracy. But it is not such a big deal, apparently, if you watch network TV news. On Wednesday, Media Matters’ Matt Gertz reported that the total number of minutes devoted to the story on either the morning or evening editions of ABC, NBC, or CBS News in the first two days after the [Eastman] memo was published was zero. “In fact,” Gertz wrote, “the only national network broadcasts to mention Trump’s coup memo were the late-night variety shows hosted by Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, and Seth Meyers.”
One reason for this is that there’s no category in the American news media ecosystem for “attempts to overthrow the American government by the sitting president.” That would be a coup, and it’s well understood that coups don’t happen in America (we have the Constitution you know), so there can’t be a news story about something that it is already known cannot happen.
This sounds facetious, but it’s simply a literal description of what is still happening right now.
They did it, they got away with it, and therefore they’re going to do it again.
Speaking of which, another thing that seems like it would count as news is the news that Merrick Garland’s DOJ doesn’t seem to be prosecuting anybody above the street level on this. But there are no stories on that either.
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www.washingtonpost.com /lifestyle/media/sullivan-eastman-memo/2021/09/29/68d93000-211f-11ec-9309-b743b79abc59_story.html
A Trump lawyer wrote an instruction manual for a coup. Why haven’t you seen it on the news?
Margaret Sullivan 6-8 minutes 9/29/2021
In a normal world, the “Eastman memo” would be infamous by now, the way “Access Hollywood” became the popular shorthand in 2016 for the damning recording of Donald Trump’s bragging about groping women.
But it’s a good bet that most people have never even heard of the Eastman memo.
That says something troubling about how blasé the mainstream press has become about the attempted coup in the aftermath of the 2020 election — and how easily a coup could succeed next time.
The memo, unearthed in Bob Woodward and Robert Costa’s new book , is a stunner. Written by Trump legal adviser John Eastman — a serious Establishment Type with Federalist Society cred and a law school deanship under his belt — it offered Mike Pence, then in his final days as vice president, a detailed plan to declare the 2020 election invalid and give the presidency to Trump.
In other words, how to run a coup in six easy steps.
Pretty huge stuff, right? You’d think so, but the mainstream press has largely looked the other way. Immediately after the memo was revealed, according to a study by left-leaning Media Matters for America , there was no on-air news coverage — literally zero on the three major broadcast networks: ABC, NBC and CBS. Not on the evening newscasts watched by more than 20 million Americans, far greater than the audience for cable news. Not on the morning shows the next day. And when Sunday rolled around, NBC’s “Meet the Press” was the only broadcast network show that bothered to mention it. (Some late-night hosts did manage to play it for laughs.)
The Washington Post reviewed the memo that was obtained for the Woodward-Costa book and wrote about it in a broader news story about the book’s revelations and in a news analysis. CNN got a copy, too, and more than most, gave it its due.
But largely, it fell upon a handful of opinion writers to provide the appropriate outrage.
Some national newspapers paid attention, but not much. USA Today with a story; the New York Times with a few paragraphs dropped deep into a sweeping news analysis .
For the most part, the memo slipped past the public — just another piece of flotsam from the wreckage of American society, drifting by unnoticed.
Why wasn’t the Eastman memo treated as what it is: a flashing red alert, signaling that Trump’s allies were (and almost certainly still are) plotting the end of free and fair elections in America?
“Trump and his ilk have flooded the zone with so many attacks on democracy that it’s paradoxically become less likely for journalists to focus on any specific case,” said Matthew Gertz, senior fellow at Media Matters.
But the former and current network executives I spoke with offered a different view — and largely agreed with decisions to downplay the memo.
For Tom Bettag, the document landed in his “shocked but not surprised” category. A former executive producer for “CBS Evening News” with stints at three other networks who now teaches at the University of Maryland, Bettag saw the story as merely “an unknown lawyer, who says he’s on the Trump legal team and had said Kamala Harris was not a citizen , wrote a crazy memo.”
He echoed the view of one network representative who told me: “After all, it didn’t happen.” In Bettag’s words: “There’s no indication that Pence considered it seriously.”
Others pointed out that there’s so much other news to cover these days: the brewing government shutdown, the aftermath of the Afghanistan troop withdrawal, and of course, the audience-riveting case of Gabby Petito, the 22-year-old woman whose remains were found in Wyoming last week.
You’d think, though, that a few seconds of precious airtime might be given to something as startling as the Eastman memo. In numbered steps subtitled the “January 6 scenario,” it outlined how Pence, charged by the Constitution with counting electoral ballots from the 2020 election on that day, could have simply ignored results from seven states that tipped the presidency to Biden. Pence would effectively throw away millions of votes from Arizona, Pennsylvania and any other state where fraudulent groups of “shadow electors ” had challenged Biden’s victory based on no valid legal principle whatsoever.
“The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission — either from a vote of the joint session [of Congress] or from the Court,” Eastman wrote.
The Post’s Philip Bump summarized Eastman’s endgame: “Predicting ‘howls’ from Democrats, Pence says, fine, let the House decide, as is procedure when there’s a tie in the electoral college. In that case, each state gets one vote and, given that Republicans controlled 26 states, Trump wins again.”
One way or the other, a no-lose proposition for Trump.
Yes, it’s downright bone-chilling to think that this lawyer and legal scholar who was enough of an insider to have a speaking role at Trump’s “Stop the Steal” rally on Jan. 6, had gamed it out like this. (After protests by his colleagues at California’s Chapman University, where he once was the law school dean, Eastman retired.)
But the news coverage wasn’t nearly widespread or prominent enough to make “the Eastman memo” a household name or to strike that legitimate fear into the hearts of citizens. To raise that red alert.
It’s telling that we’ve become so inured to Trump’s flagrant disregard for the will of the electorate. As Robert Kagan wrote last week in a grim opinion piece that did seem to break through the noise, a Trump-fueled constitutional crisis is already upon us, although the warning signs “may be obscured by the distractions of politics, the pandemic, the economy and global crises, and by wishful thinking and denial.”
And still, some dismiss Eastman’s plan as not newsworthy. “After all, it didn’t happen.”
Well, no, it didn’t. But a riot at the Capitol did — on the same day, fueled by the same autocratic lust.
Eastman’s coup hasn’t happened yet. But given the media’s shrug-off, maybe all we have to do is wait.
Giuliani's deposition goes into detail exactly what their thinking was and his ramblings closely follow the assertions of the Eastman memo. Ironically, Giuliani's rambling had nothing to do with the question he was asked...
We all need to ask why this information ( as revealed in the Woodward-Costa book) has not been the lead story on the national news.
Trump tried to organize a coup and it hasnt even been denied in the specifics. I sure hope the Jan 6 committee in Congress is going to dive deep into this.
Trump will litigate the fuck out of every step the Commission takes though I question the mental state of any lawyer that would represent Trump in those cases.
In Rudy's case, Trump was right not to pay him. He is totally incompetent and I would not have paid him either.
Both Giuliani and Trump are known for incriminating themselves when they go off script.
Which is why I laughed when I heard that Trump was suing his niece. I can't wait for his deposition in that case!
You know that won't happen. Trump will go to any extreme whatsoever to not be put under oath. Not sure he has the ability to recognize the truth anymore.
Oh but he HAS been deposed multiple times Ozz and some of them are available online. My favorite is the one where he admits he doesn't have anything to do with negotiating contracts and doesn't read what he signs.
When Trump was suing the writer Tim O'Brien for what he said about Trump in O'Briens book at the time, Trump was deposed. It is estimated that he lied 35 times during that under oath deposition. There is a web page out there that catalogues all the lies.
He lied but was not charged with perjury? Or is the POTUS immune from such charges?
It was in a civil case [Trump suing O'Brien] and in a deposition. So I guess they'd have to sue him for lying, if that's possible.
They would have to prove injury (could be physical or emotional) or actual damages, I suppose, to have a case.
If he does in the off chance win the lawsuit, I hope he receives what he did in another multi million law suit that he actually won......one dollar.
"Giuliani's deposition goes into detail exactly what their thinking was and his ramblings closely follow the assertions of the Eastman memo. Ironically, Giuliani's rambling had nothing to do with the question he was asked...
Speaking of which
We knew that on 6 Jan, so this is not news.
Gotta disagree with you this time Paula. The Eastman memo is a smoking gun. Both the text of it and the fact that Trump approved it.
I don't think it's the smoking gun you want it to be. It lays out a proposed scenaro, it doesn't explicitly say to do it and it wasn't acted on. I don't know that it will amount to much in the courts, but of course I would expect the Jan 6th investigation to attempt to make hay with it as IMO the investigation is more for the 2022 election cycle than anything else.
Just one more smoking gun, eh?
I think we have heard enough of these claims of smoking guns--enough to outfit an entire army if you have read the pablum spewed here daily.
SOSDD
I disagree that it is not specific. I think it is quite specific. We know that Trump approved of it because he met with Eastman in the oval office to discuss it and afterwards told Pence to listen to Eastman explain it to him.
This all appears in the Woodward book and neither Trump or Eastman have denied the existence of this memo.
Once again, unlike many people here , you cannot come close to addressing the issue. Just more peanut gallery bullshit from you.
It's specific in detail, but there's nothing there to indicate that Pence was ordered to follow it. The memo laid out a plan. Trump may even have stated how much he liked it. But unless there is hard evidence that it was the ordered plan of attack I have a hard time seeing it go far. I expect it to be used during the 22 election cycle and if Trump does run to also be used heavily in the 24 election cycle. But I don't think it will amount to much legally.
Had Mike Pence been more like Donald Trump and John Eastman it would have been acted on. The fact that is wasnt acted on may be a legal defense, but it certainly isnt a moral one.
Woodward says Trump told Pence to listen to John Eastman.
Trump has not denied this, probably because he said many other times as well that he wanted Pence to prevent the counting of the electoral votes on Jan 6.
If Mike Pence had followed Eastman's plan Trump would have been the happiest person on earth.
Here, JR, just for you:
Since an alarming number of progressives apparently get their news from late night comedians, this is not surprising.
Seems like this isn't some huge news scoop.
Not everyone in America is willing to go Chicken Little over every little thing.
Not surprising that you consider a concrete plan to steal the election a "little thing".
The memo laid out what the Trump team and lawyers stated were constitutional grounds for Pence to push back on seven states which would then throw the electoral college votes for those states back to the House. As the Republicans had the advantage in those counts, a partisan House vote would hand those electoral college votes to Trump. The memo to me does not lay out illegal acts, it reports that the lawyers on paper felt the action was legal and constitutional. That's why I don't believe it will go far legally.
But I did have to chuckle at 3.1.6. You've spent the better part of six years telling everybody who would listen just how bad/wrong/etc Trump was. I don't think you ever implied he was moral...
His rally that day was proof that he not only approved but encouraged it.
Jeez, give it a fucking rest. No one stole anything.
Biden won, remember?
Biden sits in the WH, remember?
And now we can hold Democrats responsible for all the Biden fuck-ups.
Do you have an actual argument to make on this topic or are you just going to whine?
I can't help it if you didn't read post 3.1.9.
Strange, because it LOOKS like you responded TO it.
Really? The memo instructs Pence to say that the results of certain swing states were "in dispute" and thus would not be counted. In dispute according to who? All of those states, like every other state, had their results certified and ready to be counted. The fact that Trump disputed the results cuts no mustard. There was no actual basis for saying the results were "in dispute". That is why it would have been a coup.
It is almost funny that for 4 years we heard these "smoking gun" claims and not a single one lead to anything of substance.
It seems that, because of the number of posts by this person, somebody has an unhealthy obsession with Trump.
I am not responsible for your delusions.
More importantly, Republican legislatures have proceeded to pass laws that allow them to do exactly what Eastman's memo is predicated on, transmitting dual slates of electors.
That predicate NEVER existed in 2020/2021. Not ONE state transmitted alternate electors to Pence. Yet now, multiple states legislatures have empowered themselves to do just that and in doing so, ignore the votes of their citizens, based solely on innuendo and unfounded assertions.
The government was never in danger of being overthrown
The memo also says why they felt Pence could say this. You are pushing hard to make this the missing piece for locking Trump away. I don't believe it is. I feel this is much more likely to be used during the 2022 (and potentially 2024) election cycles but will have rather little impact in the legal system.
Just because it wasn't successful doesn't mean it wasn't acted on. It's clear that Trump and his cronies had a plan and exerted pressure on others in an effort to forward that plan. Just because other key players within the government like Pence chose not to be part of it which led to the plan crumbling doesn't mean Trump is cleared of any wrongdoing.
Trump has devalued American national honor so severely that we end up having people dismiss the seriousness of all this. A sitting president INTENDED to stay in office by stealing the election he lost. Whether he succeed or not or whether it was carried out or not is hardly the point. It is what the then president of the United States wanted to happen. Previously to Trump, this sort of thing would have been considered the greatest scandal in the nation's history.
America has changed for the worse, and it will get worse before it gets better.
The memo is predicated on a fantasy Snuffy. Note one state 'transmitted dual slates of electors'. It's utter BS which, if the book is to be believed, Trump fell for hook line and sinker and insisted that Pence sit through a briefing to walk him through the scenario.
The book also claims that Pence sought out Quayle to advise him on what to do. Allegedly, after much tooth gnashing and Pence hoping for a different answer, Quayle replied: "I do know the position you're in," Quayle responded. "I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That's all you do. You have no power."
In short. this was a close thing and the Congress needs to address the fact that we came too fucking close to a constitutional crisis because of a psychopathic narcissist and his minions.
IMO, it was a conspiracy to "overthrow" the government. There was intent, opportunity, and motive
Well, of course it wasn't.
[Deleted] people seem to believe that there was some attempt at a coup, and they insist on perpetuating the lie.
Of course it is. Doesn't mean it's going to amount to much legally. That's the line, what can be used legally.
The biggest gain for Democrats IMO will be to add this to the wall to prevent Trump from getting back into the election in 24. And if he does run (and wins the primary) to use it against him like a great big hammer. For myself I don't want him to run. I like some of his policies and actions while he was president but the last 4 - 6 months of his presidency are too much for me to want to vote for him again.
No its not.
You are 100% correct again TG.
My link is from THIS seed and this thread.
Why is that the line? Understanding who advised Trump and what he was planning and why is important. Especially since he is still pulling the leavers of the GOP.
As I can't reply to your comment as the mad locker has struck again, I will have to reply here JR. I am referring to what we heard from Mo(ron) flack jacket Brooks, hand down his pants Rudy, and the orange toddler at the rally that day. I also saw the riot unfold as did the rest of the world. It was to overthrow and trash democracy pure and simple. Of course we did not know of The Eastman memo on that day but we saw the results. I should have been clearer in my original comment, apologies.
Could it be due to the claim, like all the other claims, this one is fiction?
No.
Note that there hasn't been a denial from anyone that the memo is authentic. Also note that if someone DOES deny it's authentic, it opens Pence up to being deposed under oath. THAT is something I would love to see.
They can't deny it because obviously Woodward and Costas have a "paper trail" of it through emails.
They were given this information, probably by someone in the office of Sen Mike Lee, who was shown the memo by Trump forces in order to gauge his reaction.
Were those emails between the parties in question...trmp and eastman?
To my knowledge, Eastman presented the plan to Trump in person, in the oval office.
Attorney-client privilege. Where they screwed up was sending it to Lee, who has no such claim.
Ah. I got my juris doctorate from watching Law and Order...I should have known that
Eastman must have received F's in the Attorney-Client Privilege class
The most likely explanation is that neither Eastman nor Trump thought there was anything wrong with what they were planning to do.
Of course they didn't! Trmp believes himself to be above the law
Or that Lee was a 'fellow traveler' and would fall on his sword for Trump.
So let's see them. Provide the emails instead of another hit piece.
take your whining up with bob woodward , he says it went down and no one has disputed it. if you thinks he is making this up you are dreaming
Actually, there is no need for proof of emails. Sen. Lee, during a live town hall meeting on Jan, 27th told his constituents about the Eastman memo [without naming him], cited a brief summary, and stated that he called state officials in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan and Arizona and they all denied Eastman's fantasy.
BTW, here's the video, FF to 12:00 and then start at the beginning for the rest of his narrative.
[deleted]
How'd you like the video Jeremy?
Still waiting for that proof.
The claim is that there are emails. The lack of the emails makes this as made up as a J. K. Rowling novel. Forgive me if I'm not surprised about another cluster of BS.
If you refuse to believe the statements of Sen. Lee, I can't help you Jeremy.
Do you think that Eastman went to Sen. Lee's office and handed the memo to him Jeremy?
Oh and BTFW, kvetching about 'emails' is a sad attempt at deflecting from the FACT that Sen. Lee acknowledged the intent of the fabricated Eastman memo.
They're no different than statements from you. Nothing but speculation until proven otherwise.
That is an utterly ridiculous statement Jeremy. Sen. Lee did a 15 minute narrative about the run up and the day of the Jan. 6th insurrection. Lee gains NOTHING by fabricating that narrative.
Oh and BTFW emails can be fabricated too...
You mean like charges of colluding with Russia.
No.
The record of it may be sealed for now due to the investigation.
And that would be the 1st time the Democrats abide by that rule.
That was MY comment Jeremy, but of course you KNOW that.
Your comment is non-responsive. Try harder.
You want a cookie?
My comment still stands despite your opinion.
No thanks.
BTW, why blockquote MY comment and then fail to address it's topic?
It's not an opinion Jeremy, it's a fact.
Until you back it up, it's opinion.
That's YOUR opinion Jeremy.
How is this not a big deal and being brushed aside. The president wanted to use unscrupulous tactics to change the results of an election.
And people just shrug their shoulders...
People are blase now about things like this. This is what happens when you let someone like Trump occupy the national political stage for years and years. The country's sense of outrage becomes degraded.
Outrage became diluted after 5 years of being chicken littled by the left.
Get a mirror.
Silly response to someone who obviously has read the comments here.
Daffy Duck is outraged by his comment. He may sue.
As my mother, rest her soul, used to say, "Want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first."
There was zero chance any attempt at this would have failed miserably. It needs to be shrugged off.
You say that now yet what if someone tries again. Hell they laid out a plan.
Are you going to tell me that if say Hillary had a plan to over throw an election, the right wouldn't be spitting blood.
You know very well they would. And we don't even need to speculate on who would lead the parade here on NT
They have absolutely nothing to counteract the truth. They just flail and pretend.
Some may I suppose but I am not one of them. And she wouldn't get it done either.
What's worse is the overt hypocrisy. They would be screaming their lungs out if a Democrat was revealed to have conspired to overturn the election. It wouldn't matter if it was a totally delusional conspiracy, they would be here posting seed after seed about it.
The attempt itself was successful. It was the follow-through that failed.
Shrug this:
and this:
and this:
and this:
and this:
and this:
People died. Countless others were hurt. In addition, these pricks caused $1.5 million in damage to my Capitol building.
That you think what happened needs to be shrugged off, then you are part of the problem.
The only thing that needs to be shrugged off is this prick:
Law Enforcement agents had to yank his silly behind out of his granny's closet. In custody, he folded like a cheap suit. One thing, though...How many people do you know who try to camouflage a deadly spear with an American flag? Yep, just another ordinary tourist.
Yeah, so get to shruggin', Pappaw, and leave saving this country to those of us who give a damn about it.
Right on Sister! Well said!
Great thing about stupid posts like this is that they can be so easily trashed.
Benghazi
Jan 6th
As for the costs involved. Throw in the Mueller Report/Investigation; the two faux impeachments; and now this idiotic investigation after the FBI already stated Trump had nothing to do with the planning of Jan 6th- it was a few small far alt right groups; and lacked any organization- which is obvious to anyone that looks at Jan 6th objectively. They are all connected. The Democrats will never let the TDS die.
Too much BS to address.
The mistake she made was not demanding an audit and recount.
The LEO who shot the traitor did what we expect men to do. He took out the trash.
It should read 4 Americans and 1 seditious traitor.
So many heads would explode that it would look like the remake of the movie Scanners.
Because there are some Americans who are more loyal to their ideology and faith than they are to our constitution. If getting their ideology and/or faith into a position of absolute power means abandoning the constitution, I believe few right wing conservative Trump loyalists would even give it a second thought, constitution be damned, all hail Fuhrer Trump!
It shouldn't be surprising how callous many right wing conservatives are when faced with inconvenient facts, we've seen them shrugging their shoulders at numerous ethics violations, abuses of power, obstruction of justice, extortion of other governments for personal political gain, illegal use of campaign funds, campaign finance violations, retaliation against whistleblowers, dozens of accusations of sexual assault, none of it matters to many right wing conservatives because they were promised by Trump that he would appoint conservative justices who would overturn Roe v Wade and fight for the right of religious conservatives to continue discriminating against those their faith labels "sinners" and fight against the "brown wave" of immigrants from our Southern border who they see as a threat to their fantasy "white Christian culture".
So seeing them shrug their shoulders when faced with what is clearly an attempt to discard the free and fair election results for their personal political gain should be about as surprising as finding out bears shit in the woods.
Your comment hits the points that need to be addressed, but are so often swept under the rug.
I can see their defense now, but, but, not the bears that are in the zoo, so it's not a 100% conclusive that Trump shit on our Constitution True, because of Zoo Keepers of the Pseudo Faith slappin the face of reason, cause they don't like what we all knows, so cut it off, and let it goes Despite their spite, any thinking individual knows what is true and RIGHT, and it is not Trump or his facilitraitors , or the 'right' that incessantly see ONLY what they wish, cause they are all from the same school of phish, flipping the truth around and ignoring the reality, of what the rest of US All see clear asz day, but they say i am wrong, cause i wrote this in the night, and they would be wrong once again, cause wrote last night as in this mourning , but just hit send now, but innocent via technicality, so after reading their defenses of the indefensible, just wow, just wow.....
Some folks are holding up Pence (no offense intended) like he did the right thing by not agreeing with whatshisname and Eastman - which he did, but he had to ask someone else - Quayle - what should he do? NOT GO ALONG WITH EASTMAN AND WHATSHISNAME is what!
WTF SP? What is with locking all those comments?
i agree with you Paula
As do I. What is the reason for locking 4 hours worth of discussion and disappearing comments?