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The Unacceptable Support of President Trump

By:  lennylynx  •   •  3 weeks ago  •  282 comments

The Unacceptable Support of President Trump

"There is nothing to talk about here, no chance of reconciliation. If you support Trump, after all he has said and done, you are simply not a worthwhile human being."

As the horror show in the White House churns on, the continued support of Donald Trump by such a large segment of American society becomes more and more outrageous.  How can any normal, reasonable person accept Trump support as a valid, respectable position?

The insane amount of corruption, obvious criminality, open and blatant obstruction of justice, constant lying, complete and utter disregard of basic human decency, disastrous and dangerous foreign policy, the sheer unfitness for office, has gone on for far too long.   Enough is enough already, Trump is a basket case and always will be.  There is nothing to talk about here, no chance of reconciliation.  If you support Trump, after all he has said and done, you are simply not a worthwhile human being.  Defenders of this dangerous buffoon are enemies of America.

Where does America go from here?  Some like to think that when everything finally comes to light, and Trump is exposed for the criminal he obviously is, everything will be ok.  Umm, no, I don't think so Tim.  Trump supporters already know he's guilty and corrupt as hell, they know he's inciting violence with his irresponsible speech, they know he doesn't have a clue what he's doing, and they know he's unhinged and dangerous.  The time has come to call these despicable traitors out for the damage they are doing to America's citizens and reputation around the world.  Trump turns his back on America's allies while praising and enabling the world's despots and brutal dictators, and these cretins stand right beside him. 

 Call me a partisan hack if it makes you feel better, but Trump's unfitness for office has nothing to do with left/right politics at all.  The Trump administration is a horror show by any reasonable point of view.  Every responsible CONSERVATIVE in America is strongly opposed to Trump, and there are millions of them.  No, Trump support is not reasonable, and not acceptable for anyone who tries to claim basic human decency.  The point of view of anyone who supports Trump, is utterly worthless.  It gives me no joy, taking this position on 40% of the country, but accepting the support of Trump is far too much to ask of any decent person.

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lennylynx
1  author  lennylynx    3 weeks ago

Sorry I have to feel this way, but Trump is simply a bridge too far.  Stop supporting this lunatic so he can be removed.

 
 
Blissful Arrogance
1.1  Blissful Arrogance  replied to  lennylynx @1    3 weeks ago

All that and yet obama was far worse by almost any objective measure of his policies. The rest is irrelevant. 

 
 
MrFrost
1.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1    3 weeks ago
All that and yet obama was far worse by almost any objective measure of his policies.

Completely false statement. Nice try though. 

 
 
Cerenkov
1.1.2  Cerenkov  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.1    3 weeks ago

Another lie. Good effort.

 
 
Blissful Arrogance
1.1.3  Blissful Arrogance  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.1    3 weeks ago

 I find it to be demonstrably truth because I can point to the exact reasons why as I’ve stated before any objective measure instead of the emotional hyperbole that you get with all these rants about Trump.

 
 
bbl-1
1.1.4  bbl-1  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1.3    3 weeks ago

Well, name them.

 
 
Blissful Arrogance
1.1.5  Blissful Arrogance  replied to  bbl-1 @1.1.4    3 weeks ago

How many hours are you willing to dedicate to this topic.   I have probably more than 100 hours of accumulated video detailing the reasoning.

 
 
Hal A. Lujah
1.1.6  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1.5    3 weeks ago

Oh, that sounds reasonable.  Guys, stop defending Obama because Done says he’s got 100 hours of reasons why you should, and that’s just too much to post therefore he doesn’t need to post anything.

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.6    3 weeks ago

It's always that way with some.  Say they have proof and never ever put up a shred of evidence (because obviously they have nothing).

  

 
 
JBB
1.1.8  JBB  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1    3 weeks ago

No Obama campaign or administration officials were ever indicted...

 
 
MrFrost
1.1.9  MrFrost  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1    3 weeks ago
All that and yet obama was far worse by almost any objective measure of his policies.

Hey, you're right, Obama was horrible at being a criminal, trump is MUCH better.

Trump is up to 109 indictments, 36 guilty pleas. In just 2 years. At this rate, trump will make Nixon look like an amateur. LOL

800

 
 
MrFrost
1.1.10  MrFrost  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1.5    3 weeks ago
How many hours are you willing to dedicate to this topic.

Hours? Trump has not even come CLOSE to what Obama accomplished...

512512512512

 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1.3    3 weeks ago

If you're thinking of giving donny boy credit for that new prison reform bill.....don't.

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.12  Tessylo  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1.3    3 weeks ago

Where you been Oliver?

 
 
cjcold
1.1.13  cjcold  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.7    3 weeks ago

Just like Trump's birther idiocy. He said he had proof but never submitted it. I guess lies and innuendo are all the far right wing needs to energize their mindless fascist fanatics.

 
 
Blissful Arrogance
1.1.14  Blissful Arrogance  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.7    3 weeks ago

  You got to give me a reason because right now I don’t believe in doing anything for anybody that they can do for them selves. 

 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.15  Trout Giggles  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1.14    3 weeks ago

You made the claim. Put up or shut up

 
 
Blissful Arrogance
1.1.16  Blissful Arrogance  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.15    3 weeks ago

1.1.14

 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.17  Trout Giggles  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1.16    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

 
 
Ed-NavDoc
1.1.18  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1.5    2 weeks ago

It would not do any good because the hard core progressive leftist liberals posting here would just deny anything you provided as false because, true or not, it does not jive with their particular worldview. Seen it happen too many times both for years on Newsvine and here on Newstalkers.

 
 
Tessylo
1.1.19  Tessylo  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @1.1.14    2 weeks ago

No reason needed Oliver.  Ya got nothing!

 
 
dennis smith
1.1.20  dennis smith  replied to  JBB @1.1.8    one week ago

There was no transparency as promised by Obama for 8 years. Trump's transparency using Twitter is open for all to see.

Other countries continued with unfair trade practices until Trump did something about it. 

Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results is what government has been done for decades in DC. No longer do Repubs and Dems in DC work together and there is no change in sight for them to do anything differently. 

 
 
JBB
1.1.21  JBB  replied to  dennis smith @1.1.20    one week ago

You assesment of Obama is inacurate. No, as in zero, Obama campaign or administration officials have ever been indicted for malfeasence in office making Obama's The Most Squeaky Clean Presidency in US History...

 
 
dennis smith
1.1.22  dennis smith  replied to  JBB @1.1.21    one week ago

Wrong, Obama trade policies allowed other countries to keep America in a trade deficit. Transparency during the Obama years was non existent compared to Trump's twitter transparency.

Your little hero Obama was a disaster and it will take more than 2,3, 4 years to correct.

The Obama admin said it would take many years to undo what the Bush admin left. 

 
 
Trout Giggles
1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  lennylynx @1    3 weeks ago

Don't be sorry for the way you feel, I feel the same way

 
 
Heartland American
1.3  Heartland American  replied to  lennylynx @1    3 weeks ago

Not only no but heck no.  We will stand by him no matter what his detractors say about him and us.  All the attacks here do is to cause us to double down on our support for him and for his policies.  We Heartland Americans gain strength by the bicoastal limousine liberal arrogant condescending toward us from their elite ivory towers.  It’s not like his haters can send Antifa into the Heartland to punish us for supporting him.  

 
 
Studiusbagus
1.3.1  Studiusbagus  replied to  Heartland American @1.3    3 weeks ago

You're going to feel the punishment anyway.

As I correctly predicted, the earnings reports are coming in and it doesn't look good. Nobody is expecting Sears/Kmart to survive past the holidays along with several other large brands...Target just lost 15%. 

Retail is the largest employment sector, employment, sales tax collection, shipping are all connected to this...how do the supporters and Trump plan to deal with this? Neither you nor he have the first clue what to do.

So bad that the market has lost all of it's gainsfor 2018..notice he's not taking credit anymore.

The deficit is rising faster than Obama's. 

Prices for everyday goods are jumping. 

Your "tax break" has already been swallowed up and the tariffs are sinking us lower.

Your punishment will be self inflicted and no liberals to blame.

 
 
Ender
1.3.2  Ender  replied to  Studiusbagus @1.3.1    3 weeks ago
the market has lost all of it's gainsfor 2018

Guarantee you that they will blame it on the Democrats taking the house.

 
 
livefreeordie
1.3.3  livefreeordie  replied to  Studiusbagus @1.3.1    3 weeks ago

Sears and Kmart have been bankrupt for over 2 decades

Brick and mortar are obsolete as Amazon, Ebay and others have demonstrated.

The deficit is rising because we are getting the pay back from the Fed who bailed out Obama for 6 plus years with zero interest rates.   The interest on the debt which Obama added 10 trillion to is expected to soon be larger than the defense budget

We need more tax cuts and dramatic reduction in domestic spending 

 
 
Studiusbagus
1.3.4  Studiusbagus  replied to  Ender @1.3.2    3 weeks ago

DINNNNGGGG!

Fox news did that this morning!

 
 
Trout Giggles
1.3.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Studiusbagus @1.3.1    3 weeks ago
So bad that the market has lost all of it's gainsfor 2018..

And.....it's nearly the end of the year. That tells me that the market didn't gain a whole lot this year or something really bad is about to happen

 
 
Heartland American
1.3.6  Heartland American  replied to  Ender @1.3.2    3 weeks ago

We will.  At least we won’t have any cap gains or dividend taxes to pay this year.  

 
 
Studiusbagus
1.3.7  Studiusbagus  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.3.5    3 weeks ago
That tells me that the market didn't gain a whole lot this year or something really bad is about to happen

It gained great! Everything was on the trajectory set by the last administration.

Then came the savior of the right, dicking with our allies, throwing out bullshit figures, and now tariffs and trade wars as well as his massive fuckup in Korea. 

And something really bad is about to happen..I puled out of the market already, squeezing the last few dimes at the risk of major losses is not for me. I pulled out in 2006 while people were laughing at me, including my ex. She's back to where she was but wasted 9 years getting it back.

The government report came out this week and they smell blood too.

Too many profit driven companies are turning in depressing earnings statements. GE is praying for a miracle. They have been removed from the 500 group it's so bad. 

We have already had a bump in unemployment applications, after the new year I expect the floodgates to open.

And Trump is NOT prepared for this. Nor is his army of doolers.

 
 
Trout Giggles
1.3.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  Studiusbagus @1.3.7    2 weeks ago

I wish I could pull my stuff out of the market but it's one of those 503c's (???) set up by the state for a retirement fund. I can't do anything except change my percentages of what goes where. I can't pull the money out until I retire

 
 
Studiusbagus
1.3.9  Studiusbagus  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.3.8    2 weeks ago

Yeah, my wife has a secondary account like that. She still works for the state and all she can really do is change her risk factors.

Her pension is still state but as of about 6 years ago they allowed 537c's or something like that. I refused and after seeing the freedom I have to avoid crap coming like this buffoon has initiated she declined, opting to keep the pension system retirement. She said she wants to play "stocks n' robbers" (I named it that so it would take the fear and stygma out of her head) while I'm sitting next to her in my brass urn. LOL

 
 
Studiusbagus
1.3.10  Studiusbagus  replied to  Heartland American @1.3.6    2 weeks ago
At least we won’t have any cap gains or dividend taxes to pay this year

Since you have already made the declaration of your worth which isn't even a direct connection to the market, it's safe to say you wouldn't be even close to those fees under ANY president. So I don't know where you get off on this "we" shit.

 
 
dennis smith
1.3.11  dennis smith  replied to  Ender @1.3.2    one week ago

The market adjusts and makes corrections all the time. Your knee jerk reaction to a short term sell off is nonsense. BTW check out the Dow gains this week.

 
 
Heartland American
1.4  Heartland American  replied to  lennylynx @1    3 weeks ago

Not only no but no but heck no.  All appeals like yours will do is cause us to double down on our support for him.  We will do whatever we legally can do to assure he stays in office at least to 20 Jan. 2021 if he decides not to run for re election.  We hope he does run but at his age and if he accomplishes enough he may decide not to.  In that event we will do whatever it takes to assure that those who want him gone will have to resort to overthrowing the constitution to force him out by coup as we will use every peaceful and legal means needed to keep him as our President until his term 1st or 2nd expires per the constitution.  There will be no legal or peaceful lawful means of removing Trump before then.  

 
 
MrFrost
2  MrFrost    3 weeks ago

Everyone I know that voted for trump now admits they made a mistake. 

 
 
lennylynx
2.1  author  lennylynx  replied to  MrFrost @2    3 weeks ago

I know some who admit it and some who don't.  No one here at Newstalkers seems to admit it.  He still has the support of a very healthy chunk of citizens.

 
 
MrFrost
2.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  lennylynx @2.1    3 weeks ago
He still has the support of a very healthy chunk of citizens.

These are the same people who believe every single word that comes out of trumps mouth. Sad. 

 
 
Blissful Arrogance
2.1.2  Blissful Arrogance  replied to  lennylynx @2.1    3 weeks ago

That support you refer to is far more than you realize from the headlines given the attempts at social ostracism that accompany the hysterical anti-trump culture in today’s environment. 

 The article here of course and the related comments are pretty much prima facie evidence of that.

 
 
Blissful Arrogance
2.1.3  Blissful Arrogance  replied to  lennylynx @2.1    3 weeks ago

 I didn’t vote for him before but that doesn’t really matter where I live and I would vote for him in the future however given the alternative. 

 
 
lennylynx
2.1.4  author  lennylynx  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @2.1.3    3 weeks ago
"The point of view of anyone who supports Trump, is utterly worthless."
 
 
Blissful Arrogance
2.1.5  Blissful Arrogance  replied to  lennylynx @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

Reasoned intellectuals would disagree.

 
 
Tessylo
2.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @2.1.5    3 weeks ago

Who would those reasoned intellectuals be?

 
 
Kavika
2.1.7  Kavika   replied to  Tessylo @2.1.6    3 weeks ago
Who would those reasoned intellectuals be?

The leader of the pack...LOL

1etqz9.jpg

 
 
cjcold
2.1.8  cjcold  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

And every single word that comes out of Trumps mouth is a lie.

 
 
Studiusbagus
2.1.9  Studiusbagus  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @2.1.2    3 weeks ago
That support you refer to is far more than you realize from the headlines given the attempts

Then why did you lose the house?

 
 
Studiusbagus
2.1.10  Studiusbagus  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @2.1.3    3 weeks ago
I didn’t vote for him before but that doesn’t really matter where I live...

What? No ballot boxes in St. Petersburgh? 

 
 
Heartland American
2.1.11  Heartland American  replied to  lennylynx @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

Then why have the discussion?  What was your point?  An amen choir of TDS victims congratulating you on your hit piece against us in an echo chamber?  

 
 
dennis smith
2.1.12  dennis smith  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.1    one week ago

They used to be called deplorables by the left. It is the left that are no the deplorables

 
 
PJ
2.2  PJ  replied to  MrFrost @2    3 weeks ago

I still do not forgive them.  jrSmiley_55_smiley_image.gif

 
 
Heartland American
2.2.1  Heartland American  replied to  PJ @2.2    3 weeks ago

I don’t want the forgiveness of the progressive left.  Their contempt and anger is a badge of honor for us.  I’m looking forward to the next six years of the Trump administration.  

 
 
PJ
2.2.2  PJ  replied to  Heartland American @2.2.1    3 weeks ago

Pfffftttt

You secretly really really like me X.  I know it so don't pretend otherwise.  

 
 
lennylynx
2.2.3  author  lennylynx  replied to  PJ @2.2.2    3 weeks ago

Why, HA is totally gaga over you Sweepea, how could he not be??

 
 
Studiusbagus
2.2.4  Studiusbagus  replied to  Heartland American @2.2.1    3 weeks ago
I’m looking forward to the next six years of the Trump administration.  

I'm looking forward to his first parole hearing in 6 years.

 
 
Heartland American
2.2.5  Heartland American  replied to  Studiusbagus @2.2.4    3 weeks ago

He will need a parole hearing to retire from the White House on Jan. 20,2025 when President Hailey is sworn in as POTUS #46?  

 
 
MrFrost
2.2.6  MrFrost  replied to  Heartland American @2.2.5    3 weeks ago
President Hailey

Could be. I actually like her quite a bit. Depending on who she is running against, I could vote for her. As far as trump is concerned? He will leave office as the worst president in history, and that's saying a LOT given how bad GWB was. 

 
 
Studiusbagus
2.2.7  Studiusbagus  replied to  MrFrost @2.2.6    3 weeks ago

Chances are he'll be gone by way of resignation in shame.

Much like Sarah Palin resigning to escape her charges.

 
 
Heartland American
2.2.8  Heartland American  replied to  PJ @2.2    3 weeks ago

We neither seek after nor ask for your forgiveness. Viva Trump!  

 
 
Heartland American
2.2.9  Heartland American  replied to  MrFrost @2.2.6    3 weeks ago

Obama was worse than both his predecessor and his successor.  As to Hailey, there’s talk that Trump could appoint VP Pence to a cabinet position and select Hailey as his running mate in 2020.  I hope she regardless having left the UN establishes residence outside of South Carolina.  I’d like her to pick Sen. Scott as her running mate.  Otherwise Sen. Rubio of Florida would be a very good running mate for her.  

 
 
Studiusbagus
2.2.10  Studiusbagus  replied to  Heartland American @2.2.9    3 weeks ago
I’d like her to pick Sen. Scott as her running mate

.Rick "plead the 5th 75 times" Scott?

 
 
Studiusbagus
2.2.11  Studiusbagus  replied to  Heartland American @2.2.9    2 weeks ago
Pence to a cabinet position and select Hailey as his running mate in 2020.  

Hahaha ! Not a fucking chance. She's bisy ejecting him from every aspect. He's toxic for her. If anything she'll primary his ass and watch as he melts away in a disasterous and embarrassing defeat.

That's if he and the lottle Trumps aren't already kicked to the curb or sent to Leavenworth.

 
 
Cerenkov
2.3  Cerenkov  replied to  MrFrost @2    3 weeks ago

I'm happy I voted for him SCOTUS alone was worth it. [Deleted]

 
 
bbl-1
2.3.1  bbl-1  replied to  Cerenkov @2.3    3 weeks ago

And the SCOTUS will deliver what, for you?

 
 
Trout Giggles
2.3.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  bbl-1 @2.3.1    3 weeks ago

That is the 64 dollar question, isn't it?

[Deleted] he should want SCOTUS to repeal Citizens United. That decision is going to be very bad news for all Americans one way or another

 
 
cjcold
2.3.3  cjcold  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.3.2    3 weeks ago

Yep. Multinational corporations flooding the media with far right propaganda is not democracy.

 
 
WallyW
2.3.4  WallyW  replied to  bbl-1 @2.3.1    3 weeks ago
And the SCOTUS will deliver what, for you?

Whatever the left was desperately trying to stop with the disgraceful confirmation hearings of Kavanaugh.

 
 
WallyW
2.3.5  WallyW  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.3.2    3 weeks ago
to repeal Citizens United. That decision is going to be very bad news for all Americans one way or another

Explain in detail, and also how it affects you personally.

 
 
WallyW
2.3.6  WallyW  replied to  cjcold @2.3.3    3 weeks ago
Multinational corporations flooding the media with far right propaganda is not democracy.

Can you provide some examples?

 
 
bbl-1
2.3.7  bbl-1  replied to  WallyW @2.3.4    3 weeks ago

You did not answer.

"Disgraceful Confirmation Hearings."  ? ?  Absolutely.  Especially when Kavanaugh asked Klobuchar if she, "Ever blacked out."  There it is.  There you have it.

Besides, Citizens United was on the 'conservative' wish list.  They got it.  Thanks to the conservative court.

 
 
cjcold
2.3.8  cjcold  replied to  WallyW @2.3.6    3 weeks ago

Citizens United is the worst thing for 'we the people'. It's good for multinational corporations.

 
 
Cerenkov
2.3.9  Cerenkov  replied to  cjcold @2.3.8    3 weeks ago

It's constitutional. That's why we needed Trump's judicial nominees. Winning.

 
 
Heartland American
2.3.10  Heartland American  replied to  WallyW @2.3.5    3 weeks ago

Citizens United was one of the better Supreme Court decisions of my life time.  

 
 
Cerenkov
2.4  Cerenkov  replied to  MrFrost @2    3 weeks ago

He's putting actual judges in the Federal courts. I'm quite pleased with my votes. He will retard the liberal pogrom for a generation.  Winning!

 
 
cjcold
2.4.1  cjcold  replied to  Cerenkov @2.4    3 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
Cerenkov
2.4.2  Cerenkov  replied to  cjcold @2.4.1    3 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
lennylynx
2.4.3  author  lennylynx  replied to  Cerenkov @2.4.2    3 weeks ago

Please stop deleting comments on my blog, Sandy, and congratulations on becoming a mod.

 
 
sandy-2021492
2.4.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  lennylynx @2.4.3    3 weeks ago

Thanks for the congratulations, and please see Perrie's comment #14.

 
 
Cerenkov
2.4.5  Cerenkov  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.4.4    3 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
lennylynx
2.4.6  author  lennylynx  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.4.4    3 weeks ago

Perrie, Schmerrie, do you always do as you're told?  Raise a little hell for a change!!

 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.4.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  lennylynx @2.4.6    3 weeks ago

Lenny, refer to my comment @14.1.1

 
 
lennylynx
2.4.8  author  lennylynx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.4.7    3 weeks ago

Yeah yeah, I saw it, please stop turning my blog into a concentration camp!!

 
 
Heartland American
2.4.9  Heartland American  replied to  lennylynx @2.4.8    3 weeks ago

More like the whole site in my opinion.  I strongly agree with your post and the point you make.  jrSmiley_12_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
lennylynx
2.4.10  author  lennylynx  replied to  Heartland American @2.4.9    3 weeks ago

Omg...

 
 
MrFrost
2.4.11  MrFrost  replied to  lennylynx @2.4.3    3 weeks ago
Please stop deleting comments on my blog

May want to brush up on that CoC Lenny. Just saying. 

 
 
lennylynx
2.4.12  author  lennylynx  replied to  MrFrost @2.4.11    3 weeks ago

Fuck the CoC Frosty!  Just saying... jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
Heartland American
2.4.13  Heartland American  replied to  lennylynx @2.4.10    3 weeks ago

shocking Isn’t it that we agree on something.  When you are right and in this case you are, I’ll say so. We certainly don’t agree on the content of your blog though that you wrote it and believe it doesn’t offend me personally.  

 
 
Heartland American
2.4.14  Heartland American  replied to  lennylynx @2.4.12    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif  Not sure what the expletive is but well said until the rewrite.  

 
 
livefreeordie
2.5  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @2    3 weeks ago

I didn't vote for him (voted 3rd party) but I will definitely and proudly vote for him in 2020

 
 
JBB
2.6  JBB  replied to  MrFrost @2    3 weeks ago

No, our federal deficit is exploding because the damn gop in Congress is spending trillions more than the gutless bastards are willing to raise in tax revenues. "Economics is just math" - Bill Clinton...

 
 
Blissful Arrogance
2.6.1  Blissful Arrogance  replied to  JBB @2.6    3 weeks ago

That’s not the reason but it doesn’t really matter because you don’t care anyway.

 
 
livefreeordie
2.6.2  livefreeordie  replied to  JBB @2.6    3 weeks ago

no, it's because the Fed bailed out Obama with Zero interest rates for over 6 years and now the cows are coming home to roost

CBO projection under Obama

March 24, 2016

As it typically does after the President’s budget is released, CBO has updated the 10-year baseline budget projections it published early in the year. CBO now estimates that if no further legislation is enacted this year that affects the federal budget, the total federal deficit for fiscal year 2016 will be $534 billion, about $100 billion greater than the shortfall posted in fiscal year 2015. If current laws generally remained unchanged, the deficit would increase (in dollar terms) in nearly every year over the next decade and, CBO projects, by 2026 it would be considerably larger as a share of the nation’s output (gross domestic product, or GDP) than its average over the past 50 years (see figure below). Debt held by the public also would rise significantly from its already high level, reaching 86 percent of GDP by 2026.

This year is likely to be the first since 2009 in which the federal deficit will increase as a share of the nation’s output—from 2.5 percent of GDP in 2015 to 2.9 percent in 2016, by CBO’s estimate. That growth in the deficit will result in part from a shift in the timing of some federal payments from the beginning of fiscal year 2017 to the end of 2016 because October 1, 2016—the first day of fiscal year 2017—falls on a weekend. Without that shift of an estimated $41 billion in payments, the deficit projected for 2016 would be $493 billion, or 2.7 percent of GDP.

In CBO’s baseline, deficits rise because growth in revenues over the next 10 years is outpaced by increases in spending—particularly for Social Security, Medicare, and interest payments on the federal debt. The deficit remains at roughly 2.8 percent of GDP through 2018 but climbs to 4.9 percent of GDP by 2026. The cumulative deficit projected for the 2017–2026 period is $9.3 trillion.

One important effect of such deficits would be a burgeoning amount of debt held by the public. In 10 years, debt held by the public would equal 86 percent of GDP —more than twice its average over the past five decades. Debt that high—and heading higher—would have significant negative budgetary and economic consequences (see figure below):

  • Once interest rates returned to more typical, higher levels, federal spending on interest payments would increase substantially.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/51384

 
 
JBB
2.6.3  JBB  replied to  livefreeordie @2.6.2    3 weeks ago

Income minus expenses equal net surplus or deficit.

The gop cut income then blew up military spending...

Increase cost of debt will exacerbate these problems.

 
 
livefreeordie
2.6.4  livefreeordie  replied to  JBB @2.6.3    3 weeks ago

Wrong. Income receipts are up.  Trump proposed 3 trillion in spending reductions this year and Democrats screamed bloody murder.

Trump releases 2019 budget with $3 trillion in cuts

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/373413-trump-releases-2019-budget

 
 
lennylynx
2.6.5  author  lennylynx  replied to  livefreeordie @2.6.2    3 weeks ago

Cows roost??

 
 
Heartland American
2.6.6  Heartland American  replied to  JBB @2.6    3 weeks ago

Now that we have a democrat party controlled house let’s just see how much they reduce spending to curb the deficit since all spending bills originate there.  

 
 
Heartland American
2.6.7  Heartland American  replied to  JBB @2.6.3    3 weeks ago

Excuse me but federal tax revenues increased after the tax cut.  Spending increased far more. 

 
 
Studiusbagus
2.6.8  Studiusbagus  replied to  Heartland American @2.6.7    2 weeks ago

Excuse yourself...even the Treasury says revenues are down 9%

 
 
Ronin2
2.7  Ronin2  replied to  MrFrost @2    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
Split Personality
3  Split Personality    3 weeks ago

Lenny, I have a lot of cousins and their families around Westhaven & Knights Rds, almost all regret this Administration, regardless of who they voted for.

 
 
MrFrost
3.1  MrFrost  replied to  Split Personality @3    3 weeks ago

It really is embarrassing. I have a few friends living in Germany and they are shocked at how horrible trump is. Trump literally makes GWB look like a fantastic president and he destroyed the economy. 

 
 
Cerenkov
3.1.1  Cerenkov  replied to  MrFrost @3.1    3 weeks ago

Bush was a good president. That's why he was elected for two terms.

 
 
Blissful Arrogance
3.1.2  Blissful Arrogance  replied to  MrFrost @3.1    3 weeks ago

I have relatives overseas as well and when I have had these types of discussions with them they can never point to any specific policy or measure that would rate as objectionable to the degree that you speak of. 

 
 
pat wilson
3.1.3  pat wilson  replied to  Cerenkov @3.1.1    3 weeks ago

Ya, like Clinton and Obama. 

 
 
PJ
3.1.4  PJ  replied to  MrFrost @3.1    3 weeks ago
Trump literally makes GWB look like a fantastic president and he destroyed the economy. 

I never thought I'd see the day in which I would agree with this statement even knowing that Bush murdered over 3k American military and ousted an active CIA agent.  He is still far better than who is currently in the WH.  Everyone and anyone associated with or responsible for this WH should be utterly ashamed.

 
 
MrFrost
3.1.5  MrFrost  replied to  Cerenkov @3.1.1    3 weeks ago

I voted for GWB...1st term only. 

 
 
luther28
3.1.6  luther28  replied to  Cerenkov @3.1.1    3 weeks ago

At the time I thought not, but relatively speaking (I never thought I would say this) I long for the days of Mr. Bush.

 
 
Ronin2
3.1.7  Ronin2  replied to  PJ @3.1.4    3 weeks ago

What are your thoughts on Obama's murdered American military, which for outstrips Bush?  What do you have to say about the US Diplomat and security personnel that were killed under his watch in Libya; that his administration tried to cover up by blaming a low budget movie on Islam? What do you think of Obama's drone extra judicial killings (and collateral damage) which far outstripped Bush? Obama destabilized 4 (Syria, Libya, Yemen, and Ukraine)  countries to Bush's one (anyone that thinks Afghanistan was ever stable is nuts).

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/war-afghanistan-numbers-n794626

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/some-2500-americans-have-died-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-under-obama-62022/

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-17/obamas-covert-drone-war-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/obama-doctrine-wars-numbers/474531/

If you hated Bush, you should have loathed, detested, and despised Obama. He was Bush on steroids in every way.  Including increasing the debt, scandals, cover ups, and corruption. He just had better yes men, and women, covering for him.

I will give Trump credit for one thing. Outside of Syria- which he expanded by putting US ground forces in; he hasn't started any new wars- or destabilized any countries. He ssucks; but at least he isn't out to destabilize the planet so far.

What can we expect when the two major parties give us a failed reality tv host; and an un-convicted criminal to chose from as candidates.  We got exactly what we deserve; and judging from the rhetoric on both sides we can expect far worse in the future.

 
 
MrFrost
3.1.8  MrFrost  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.7    3 weeks ago

Obama ENDED the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, he didn't start them. NO one would have died in those two countries had bushtard not STARTED them in the first place. 

But since you went there... How many civilians died in Iraq between 2003-2007? 500,000. Not a peep from the right wing, but Obama kills a goat and the right wing is still crying about it. SMFH

 
 
cjcold
3.1.9  cjcold  replied to  MrFrost @3.1.5    3 weeks ago

This independent voted for GHWB...1st term only.

I doubt I'll ever vote for another republican. I've been polarized.

 
 
PJ
3.1.10  PJ  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.7    3 weeks ago

I love these whataboutisms.  Unfortunately I don't play.  I don't care what you or others in your camp think about my posts or my opinion and I certainly don't care about yours. 

Feel free to give Trump credit for whatever you want.   

 
 
Trout Giggles
3.1.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  cjcold @3.1.9    3 weeks ago

I could be persuaded.

 
 
cjcold
3.1.12  cjcold  replied to  PJ @3.1.10    3 weeks ago

Most of what Trump takes credit for was already trending due to Obama's wise moves.

 
 
PJ
3.1.13  PJ  replied to  cjcold @3.1.12    3 weeks ago

I agree.  I do think Trump deserves some credit for the stock market but I imagine that will get mucked up because he's so incompetent and corrupt.  

 
 
lennylynx
3.1.14  author  lennylynx  replied to  MrFrost @3.1.8    3 weeks ago

It was hilarious hearing the right wing hippos whine about the tiny bit of collateral damage that resulted from Obama droning terrorist leaders.  Their hypocrisy is off the charts.

 
 
WallyW
3.1.15  WallyW  replied to  Blissful Arrogance @3.1.2    3 weeks ago
they can never point to any specific policy or measure that would rate as objectionable to the degree that you speak of. 

And neither can any of the left wing ranters here!

 
 
MrFrost
3.1.16  MrFrost  replied to  cjcold @3.1.9    3 weeks ago
This independent voted for GHWB...1st term only. I doubt I'll ever vote for another republican. I've been polarized.

Exactly. I voted for GHWB as well. Never again will I vote for (R) again, especially after GWB's epic failure of a presidency. 

 
 
Heartland American
3.1.17  Heartland American  replied to  cjcold @3.1.9    3 weeks ago

Me too.  Just the other direction.  

 
 
Heartland American
3.1.18  Heartland American  replied to  PJ @3.1.10    3 weeks ago

Funny but I feel exactly the same about you all and my posts.....

 
 
Heartland American
3.1.19  Heartland American  replied to  MrFrost @3.1.16    3 weeks ago

Except for Nikky Hailey?  

 
 
Studiusbagus
3.1.20  Studiusbagus  replied to  MrFrost @3.1    2 weeks ago
I have a few friends living in Germany and they are shocked at how horrible trump is

That's so funny! I have friends in Iran and they say "And we thought we were fucked under Amadinijad's stupidity and ignorance!"

 
 
Ronin2
3.1.21  Ronin2  replied to  MrFrost @3.1.8    2 weeks ago
Obama ENDED the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, he didn't start them. NO one would have died in those two countries had bushtard not STARTED them in the first place. 

You can't really believe that? What the hell are American forces still doing in both countries then?  

Obama withdrew US forces from Iraq- you can thank Bush's SOFA agreement for that. Obama wanted to keep US forces there; but wasn't willing to agree to the Iraqi government terms for keeping them there.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/24/martha-raddatz/obama-wanted-keep-10000-troops-iraq-abcs-raddatz-c/

He then reinserted US forces when the country destabilized. 

https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/07/politics/obama-sends-troops-to-iraq/index.html

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/276652-obama-to-send-more-troops-bring-them-closer-to-front-lines-in-iraq

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/world/middleeast/obama-troops-iraq.html

http://time.com/4298318/iraq-us-troops-barack-obama-mosul-isis/

The war in Afghanistan never ended. Obama's SOFA agreement has tied the US to a weak corrupt government that will never survive without US military presence.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/obama-leaves-complicated-legacy-iraq-afghanistan-syria

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/02/world/asia/obama-lands-in-kabul-on-unannounced-visit.html

But since you went there... How many civilians died in Iraq between 2003-2007? 500,000. Not a peep from the right wing, but Obama kills a goat and the right wing is still crying about it. SMFH

Please smack your head against a wall or something that will break your blue tinted glasses. I already blamed Bush for Afghanistan (which he was too weak to defy NATO and the UN on); and starting the invasion of Iraq. But Obama killed far more than goats; claiming otherwise is a flat out lie.  Obama used extra judicial drone killings across far more countries than Bush did; and then changed how combatants were counted.

These are the White House BS numbers Obama put out.

https://www.cfr.org/blog/obamas-final-drone-strike-data

The strike was thelast under Obama(that we know of). The 542 drone strikes that Obama authorized killed an estimated 3,797 people, including 324 civilians. As hereportedly told senior aides in 2011: “Turns out I’m really good at killing people. Didn’t know that was gonna be a strong suit of mine.”

Here is reality.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/05/do-not-believe-the-u-s-governments-official-numbers-on-drone-strike-civilian-casualties/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/04/world/middleeast/drone-strike-statistics-answer-few-questions-and-raise-many.html

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-17/obamas-covert-drone-war-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html

It is also because Mr Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in the strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.

If you want tit for tat on who is the bigger butcher. Why not take add up how many civilians died in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and the Ukraine thanks to Obama?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211419X15000348

Methods

A systematic cross-sectional field survey and non-structured search was carried out over fourteen provinces in six Libyan regions, representing the primary sites of the armed conflict between February 2011 and February 2012. Thirty-five percent of the total area of Libya and 62.4% of the Libyan population were involved in the study. The mortality and injury rates were determined and the number of displaced people was calculated during the conflict period.

Results

A total of 21,490 (0.5%) persons were killed, 19,700 (0.47%) injured and 435,000 (10.33%) displaced. The overall mortality rate was found to be 5.1 per 1000 per year (95% CI 4.1–7.4) and injury rate was found to be 4.7 per 1000 per year (95% CI 3.9–7.2) but varied by both region and time, reaching peak rates by July–August 2011.

https://www.mintpressnews.com/how-many-millions-have-been-killed-in-americas-post-9-11-wars/241144/

Libya

So I estimate that about 250,000 Libyans have been killed in the war, violence and chaos that the U.S. and its allies unleashed in Libya in February 2011, and which continues to the present day.  Taking 5:1 and 12:1 ratios to passively counted deaths as outer limits, the minimum number of people that have been killed would be 150,000 and the maximum would be 360,000.

Syria

If SOHR has been more successful than any previous “passive” effort to count the dead in a war, and has counted 25% or 30% of the people killed, the real number killed could be as low as 1 million.  If it has not been as successful as it seems, and its count is closer to what has been typical in other conflicts, then as many as 2 million people may well have been killed.

Yemen

Even UNOCHA and the WHO acknowledge substantial underreporting of war deaths in Yemen, and the ratio between the WHO’s passive reports and actual deaths appears to be toward the higher end of the range found in other wars, which has varied between 5:1 and 20:1.  I estimate that about 175,000 people have been killed – 15 times the numbers reported by the WHO and ACLED – with a minimum of 120,000 and a maximum of 240,000.
https://www.voanews.com/a/united-nations-human-right-council-ukraine-conflict/3910072.html
Since April 2014 when war erupted in eastern Ukraine between the government and Russian-backed separatists, the United Nations estimates around 10,000 people have been killed and more than 23,500 injured.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan you will have take Wiki for the numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

I never defended Bush; but your blue blinders won't allow you to put Obama in the same category as Bush. You might want to try getting some facts before making baseless assertions.

 
 
MrFrost
3.1.22  MrFrost  replied to  Heartland American @3.1.19    2 weeks ago
Except for Nikky Hailey?  

Possibly. 

 
 
lennylynx
3.2  author  lennylynx  replied to  Split Personality @3    3 weeks ago

Every single person you and Mr. Frost know who once supported Trump have turned against him, yet he still has 40% approval and the Republicans gained seats in the Senate?  Your testimony is nice to hear but if the rejection of Trump was half as complete as you guys are suggesting, the dirtbag would have been removed by now and the Democrats would be holding both houses.  I would love to believe Trump has been completely rejected, but will require more evidence.  My brother is a Trumpist and I'm hoping he has changed his tune by now, will find out at Christmas time.  He was still a Trumpist last Christmas...

 
 
Trout Giggles
3.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  lennylynx @3.2    3 weeks ago

I don't know of one person who regrets their decision to vote for him. Thanksgiving is going to be really fun this year.

I'm gonna needs lots of Klonepin.....

 
 
cjcold
3.2.2  cjcold  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.2.1    3 weeks ago

Being I'm the only liberal in a horde of conservatives, I'm bringing a Taser and pepper spray.

 
 
Trout Giggles
3.2.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  cjcold @3.2.2    3 weeks ago

This is my family!

Maybe I'll bring my bb gun

 
 
cjcold
3.2.4  cjcold  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.2.3    3 weeks ago

FBI statistics show that most murders are committed during the holiday season by family members. Since my family are all far right wing fascists, think I'll just stay home this christmas.

 
 
Cerenkov
3.2.5  Cerenkov  replied to  cjcold @3.2.4    3 weeks ago

So you are afraid of your family? [deleted]

 
 
Heartland American
3.2.6  Heartland American  replied to  cjcold @3.2.2    3 weeks ago

For your own family? 

 
 
Heartland American
3.2.7  Heartland American  replied to  cjcold @3.2.4    3 weeks ago

I have a mixed family and would never stay away and avoid a family get together over differences of opinion even over politics and religion.  

 
 
bbl-1
4  bbl-1    3 weeks ago

The Russian/Putin propaganda machine is effective.  The Trump's record of fraud, bankruptcies, puffy grabbing, sexual assault allegations, adult film stars, playboy bunnies, children in cages and all the rest----and somehow---someway---a portion of the American electorate bought it anyway.  Most definitely the 'shyster act' of American history.

 
 
WallyW
4.1  WallyW  replied to  bbl-1 @4    3 weeks ago

None of the above is true, and it doesn't matter anyway.

 
 
bbl-1
4.1.1  bbl-1  replied to  WallyW @4.1    3 weeks ago

Which of 'the none of the above' is false?  Specificities are warranted.

 
 
cjcold
4.1.2  cjcold  replied to  WallyW @4.1    3 weeks ago

ALL of the above is true. But truth matters very little to the liar in chief.

Actually truth does matter. 

 
 
Heartland American
4.1.3  Heartland American  replied to  cjcold @4.1.2    3 weeks ago

Truth does matter. That’s why I must say that all of the above is completely and totally false.  

 
 
pat wilson
4.1.4  pat wilson  replied to  Heartland American @4.1.3    3 weeks ago
Truth does matter. That’s why I must say that all of the above is completely and totally false.  

If you want to call out what is "truth" and what is "false" you should be prepared to, as the saying goes "put up or shut up". So let's see your links that back up your assertions.

 
 
Studiusbagus
4.1.5  Studiusbagus  replied to  Heartland American @4.1.3    2 weeks ago
Truth does matter.

Why doesn't that reflect in your posts?

 
 
Kathleen
5  Kathleen    3 weeks ago

Comment removed at commenters request. 

 
 
lennylynx
5.1  author  lennylynx  replied to  Kathleen @5    3 weeks ago

Trump and his supporters have caused irreparable harm to America.

 
 
XDm9mm
5.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  lennylynx @5.1    3 weeks ago
Trump and his supporters have caused irreparable harm to America.

Yeah.   That harm of the best economy in decades.  Lowest unemployment in decades.  Lowest unemployment for some specific demographics ever.  Lowered taxes.  Higher wages.  Those 'magic wand' manufacturing jobs being created.  The markets going gangbusters.   Trade deals being negotiated which don't HURT America, but make it possible for America to compete on a level playing field.   

Yeah, all that harm is just so intolerable, only if one is brain dead.

 
 
Tessylo
5.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.1    3 weeks ago
'Trade deals being negotiated which don't HURT America, but make it possible for America to compete on a level playing field.' 

Just this one thing alone is a fucking ridiculous.  Tariffs?  Hello?????????????

 
 
Trout Giggles
5.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.1    3 weeks ago

http://fortune.com/2018/10/09/ford-stock-today-layoffs-trump-trade-tariffs/

Ford is having a bad year in 2018. Its stock is down 29%, and the tariffs imposed by President Trump have reportedly cost the company $1 billion, as the company is in the midst of a reorganization. Now, the company is announcing layoffs. Jim Hackett, Ford’s CEO, is working to engineer a $25.5 billion restructuring of the automaker, hoping to cut costs and remain competitive, the Wall Street Journal reports. But auto sales are down, and one reason is the trade tariffs that Trump has imposed on metals and other goods. According to Bloomberg, Hackett has said they have already cost the company $1 billion in profit and could do “more damage” if the disputes aren’t resolved quickly.

I thought I had heard something about Ford and layoffs in the news.....

 
 
Split Personality
5.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.1    3 weeks ago

Unless your trying to sell or buy a house.........

softest market in 12 years.........

 
 
Split Personality
5.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.3    3 weeks ago

I have a lot of GM, Chrysler and Ford stock, tell me about it./s

Ford & GM took major losses due to the tariffs and have initiated or announced tens of thousands of layoffs and cancelled several new models both here and in China.

Car prices are up over 2,000. 00 due to tariffs.

yep, everything is peachy keen.

Gas prices keep rising butt everyone knows Presidents don't control that /s

Even Toyota, with 10 manufacturing facilities in the USA is griping about tariffs and raising prices an average of 1,800.00 per model.

good bye tax cut......

 
 
XDm9mm
5.1.6  XDm9mm  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.4    3 weeks ago
Unless your trying to sell or buy a house......... softest market in 12 years.........

True.

But, the reason for that softness is actually the improving economy which is the reason the FED is raising interest rates in order to control inflation.

Higher interest rates, fewer people getting mortgages.

But...   higher interest rates are good for people with savings.  

It's a double edged sword.

You know that but HAD to find something to complain about regarding Trump.

 
 
XDm9mm
5.1.7  XDm9mm  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.1.3    3 weeks ago
I thought I had heard something about Ford and layoffs in the news.....

What you're neglecting to realize is that Ford IS in trouble, as are many 'automobile' companies....   at least in the US market.  All of the manufacturers are cutting CAR production and expanding trunk and SUV production.   When that car production is cut, those lines are shuttered or temporarily stopped for retooling to SUV/Truck production.

So, there ARE others reasons for shutting down lines and laying off people.

 
 
badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη
5.1.8  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.5    3 weeks ago

GM was loaded up with beurocracy after the bailouts. They were pushed to hire midlevel management they simply don't need.

The current layoffs target the midlevel salaried baggage. The goal is to be efficient and lean 2 to 4 years from now.

It's a smart move. Gm finally hired a good consulting company that is pushing them to take advantage of the good economy and prepare for the future.

I too own GM stock and well I talk to GM executives 5 days a week. I applaud the move and I live and breathe GM every day. Its finally a relief to see them planning ahead.

 
 
XDm9mm
5.1.9  XDm9mm  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.5    3 weeks ago
Gas prices keep rising butt everyone knows Presidents don't control that /s

You REALLY need to keep up with current events SP...

Gas prices NATIONALLY are coming down.  There is an oil glut and less demand.

Hell, prices in some states are below $2.00 a gallon, and AAA predicts prices to keep dropping through December and into early 2019.

Below $2

Several dozen stations across Louisiana, Missouri, Ohio, Oklahoma and Texas were charging less than $2 per gallon as of Wednesday, according to GasBuddy.

That number "could be several hundred by Thanksgiving Day," GasBuddy's DeHaan said.

Source:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/11/15/thanksgiving-gas-prices/1998466002/

 
 
MrFrost
5.1.10  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.6    3 weeks ago
But, the reason for that softness is actually the improving economy which is the reason the FED is raising interest rates in order to control inflation.

Higher interest rates, fewer people getting mortgages.

But...   higher interest rates are good for people with savings.  

It's a double edged sword.

True. Completely agree.

You know that but HAD to find something to complain about regarding Trump.

Like I said, the right came unglued when Obama wore a tan suit....the right set the bar pretty damn low as far as finding something about trump to complain about. 

 
 
XDm9mm
5.1.11  XDm9mm  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.10    3 weeks ago
Like I said, the right came unglued when Obama wore a tan suit

Personally, I don't give a rats ass what he wore or wears, nor do I care what Trump wears.   It's the results that matter, and as far as I'm concerned, Obama was an abject failure.   

His only claim to fame was forcing the American populace to BUY a product from a private company or be fined (until it was defended in court when the fine became a tax) for not doing so.

 
 
MrFrost
5.1.12  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.11    3 weeks ago

I posted some FACTUAL charts above, if those don't prove that he did a lot of good for the country, nothing will. 

 
 
XDm9mm
5.1.13  XDm9mm  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.12    3 weeks ago
I posted some FACTUAL charts above

The same balderdash you post all the time.   They're still as laughable now as the first time you used them.

 
 
JumpDrive
5.1.14  JumpDrive  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.11    3 weeks ago
His only claim to fame was forcing the American populace to BUY a product from a private company or be fined (until it was defended in court when the fine became a tax) for not doing so.

I’ve seen you post this a number of times and it needs to be addressed. The Mandate was proposed by the very conservative Heritage Foundation in response to Reagan’s passing of the 1986 Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. The Act allowed anyone to get Emergency Room service even if they could not pay. The Heritage Foundation stated that people should be responsible for their own healthcare and proposed the insurance mandate. Just as anyone who drives must have insurance to protect other drivers, so too, anyone with a body must have medical insurance. The mandate was Republican policy for a quarter of a century, up to and including Romney’s installation of it in Massachusetts as a blueprint for the nation. However, when Obama used it to get 20+ million working class Americans medical insurance it got cooties, and Republicans all turned on a dime as instructed by their media and said it was now bad.

 
 
WallyW
5.1.16  WallyW  replied to  lennylynx @5.1    3 weeks ago
Trump and his supporters have caused irreparable harm to America

You probably can't list anything specific apparently.

 
 
PJ
5.1.17  PJ  replied to  WallyW @5.1.16    3 weeks ago

Well the most apparent harm is the division within the country.  We are in the throws of a modern day civil war. 

 
 
XDm9mm
5.1.18  XDm9mm  replied to  PJ @5.1.17    3 weeks ago
Well the most apparent harm is the division within the country.

I will submit that the division took off like a rocket during the tenure of the previous president.

Hell, he effectively and literally told those of us on the right we would need to ride in the back of the bus.

Great way to make friends and influence people.

 
 
PJ
5.1.19  PJ  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.18    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif  Now you can sit in the front of the bus and shit all over women and minorities again.  Poor wittle white guy.......  

 
 
dave-2693993
5.1.20  dave-2693993  replied to  PJ @5.1.17    3 weeks ago
We are in the throws of a modern day civil war. 

It is true PJ that the rhetoric is cranked up way to high and the rule of law is being tossed aside all to often but we are not in a civil war.

This is a civil war. Although these do not show warfare in urban areas, there was plenty of it. Trends say, the fighting is ramping back to what is shown in these vids.

Can you believe fewer than 300 people out of millions were granted asylum here, even when people here had open doors for our friends?

 
 
Cerenkov
5.1.21  Cerenkov  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.4    3 weeks ago

My house value has skyrocketed. Looks good to me...

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.22  Heartland American  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.1    3 weeks ago

All I can say is , Mr. President hurt me some more!  I want more of that kind of hurting and pain.  jrSmiley_36_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_24_smiley_image.gif

 
 
Heartland American
5.1.23  Heartland American  replied to  PJ @5.1.17    3 weeks ago

And if Hillary has won do you think that the division would have been any less?  

 
 
PJ
5.1.24  PJ  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.23    3 weeks ago

No, probably not but I think our allies would still have respected us.  Nobody likes us anymore except for dictators.......

 
 
lennylynx
5.1.25  author  lennylynx  replied to  PJ @5.1.24    3 weeks ago

You got that right! How was your hike?

 
 
PJ
5.1.26  PJ  replied to  lennylynx @5.1.25    3 weeks ago

It was good.  I was a feeling a little sluggish but after about 45 minutes I got my second wind.  Hiked about 3 hours today.  I'm moving a little slow now.  Below is a pic I took this morning.

320

 
 
lennylynx
5.1.27  author  lennylynx  replied to  PJ @5.1.26    3 weeks ago

Wow, 3 hours is a pretty good jaunt.  Taking off for about 3 myself right now to do a little job and go for a beer, won't be seeing scenery like that though!

 
 
PJ
5.1.28  PJ  replied to  lennylynx @5.1.27    3 weeks ago

Have a beer for me!

 
 
MrFrost
5.1.29  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.13    3 weeks ago
They're still as laughable now as the first time you used them.

If you can dispute the numbers do so, other wise accept them and move on instead of digging that hole you are standing in. 

 
 
MrFrost
5.1.30  MrFrost  replied to  JumpDrive @5.1.14    3 weeks ago

Always found it entertaining that republicans insist that everyone that drives a car MUST have insurance, but human beings? Naw... It literally makes no sense. 

I suppose if a person is sick, they could drive their car into a hospital ER, climb out of the mangled wreck and ask to see a doctor.....because the car insurance will pay for it. 

 
 
charger 383
5.1.31  charger 383  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.30    3 weeks ago

I can't figure that out either 

 
 
XDm9mm
5.1.32  XDm9mm  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.30    3 weeks ago
Always found it entertaining that republicans insist that everyone that drives a car MUST have insurance, but human beings?

STOP the bullshit.   

Auto insurance is required by STATE governments, Democrat and Republican alike, so shove your partisan bullshit where the sun don't shine.

HOWEVER.....   Driving a car is an OPTIONAL PRIVILEGE.   If you don't want to pay for the insurance, or have no need to drive, no one is FORCING you to buy it.   I know a large number of people in New York, including my niece that doesn't pay for car insurance as she lives in Manhattan and has no need for a car.

Human beings on the other hand have no option about breathing....   well they do and I could give you some suggestions to eliminate that if you need, but the government forcing the people to buy a product from a private company simply for the act of breathing is BEYOND the governments reach.

PS:

digging that hole you are standing in. 

I have.  You just refuse to believe them.   So keep digging away Frost, keep digging.

 
 
Trout Giggles
5.1.33  Trout Giggles  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.32    3 weeks ago

So good health and life is an optional privilege?

 
 
Colour Me Free
5.1.34  Colour Me Free  replied to  JumpDrive @5.1.14    3 weeks ago
The mandate was Republican policy for a quarter of a century, up to and including Romney’s installation of it in Massachusetts as a blueprint for the nation. However, when Obama used it to get 20+ million working class Americans medical insurance it got cooties, and Republicans all turned on a dime as instructed by their media and said it was now bad.

Not completely accurate, if one goes back and takes a look 25 years ago .. the (R)'s never put that 'mandate' to the vote - no pass, no fail … just no vote (the plan was found to unsustainable in the long run) …  Romneycare was designed to work on a state population level, a one size fits all .. taking it to a national level was ill informed .. depending on the young and healthy being forced to purchase insurance to off set the pre existing conditions and relying on uncontrollable things like Medicaid expansion to make the ACA sustainable were 2 major errors made ….

I can provide links in they are needed...

figure I had better at least post one link since it is doubtful I will be back today .. I presume that Political Fact is credible enough?

Is the Affordable Care Act really the same as "the Republican plan in the early '90s?"

Short answer -- sort of. There was a Republican bill in the Senate that looked a whole lot like Obamacare, but it wasn’t the only GOP bill on Capitol Hill, it never came to a vote and from what we can tell, plenty of conservative Republicans didn’t like it.

Our ruling:

Qualls said the Affordable Care Act "was the Republican plan in the '90s." The bill she had in mind did have a strong roster of Republicans behind it, and it did share many major features with the Affordable Care Act. There were some significant differences but in a side-by-side comparison, the similarities dominate.

However, to call it the Republican plan, as though a majority of Republicans endorsed it, goes too far. The House Republicans took a different path, and there was opposition from more hard-line members of the Republican coalition. It is telling that the Chafee bill never became a full blown bill and never came up for a vote.

We rate the statement Half True.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.35  Jack_TX  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.30    3 weeks ago
Always found it entertaining that republicans insist that everyone that drives a car MUST have insurance, but human beings? Naw... It literally makes no sense.

*sigh*  It makes perfect sense to any person who understands insurance.   

You are not required to carry insurance that repairs your car or covers your injuries.  You are required to carry insurance that repairs MY car and covers MY injuries after you hit me due to operating your car with the same level of expertise you display with regard to insurance.  

 
 
JumpDrive
5.1.36  JumpDrive  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.35    3 weeks ago
You are not required to carry insurance that repairs your car or covers your injuries.  You are required to carry insurance that repairs MY car and covers MY injuries after you hit me due to operating your car with the same level of expertise you display with regard to insurance. 

*sigh* who do you think pays for people without insurance who end up in ERs? Hint: Hospitals get to distribute those costs across the people who do have insurance.

 
 
JumpDrive
5.1.37  JumpDrive  replied to  Colour Me Free @5.1.34    3 weeks ago
Not completely accurate

But mostly accurate. The ’93 Chafee plan included the individual mandate. From your Politifact excerpt “There were some significant differences but in a side-by-side comparison, the similarities dominate.” “designed to work at the state level...” is specious. The larger the pool the better. The young & healthy defraying the cost for those with pre-existing conditions is how insurance works. Young drivers would never be able to get insurance if theirs was not subsidized by experienced drivers. People with lots of kids wouldn’t be able to educate them if people with 1 or no kids weren’t subsidizing them. The Medicaid expansion was a godsend for rural hospitals and the millions who got healthcare in the states where the governors didn’t deny it.

The reason Romneycare worked well is because Democrats worked with Republicans to make it work. The same way Democrats, who uniformly voted against Bush’s drug entitlement, worked with Republicans to make that work. All Republicans have done is damage ACA wherever and whenever they could; yet it still survives because it is the best we can do in the face of Republican and Insurance company intransigence.

I’m not sure why you posted the comparison of ACA and Chafee’s, I made no claims there. My point to X… was that the mandate was a good conservative idea that makes people take responsibility for their healthcare while also making it possible to cover pre-existing conditions. It’s removal is like having auto-insurance you could buy when you have an accident. A nonsensical notion, but exactly what Republicans did to damage ACA.

 
 
JBB
5.1.38  JBB  replied to  JumpDrive @5.1.36    3 weeks ago

Righties cannot seem to get it through their noggins that overall we Americans all end up paying twice as much per person for our collective healthcare compared with all other modern nations and yet we get worse outcomes exactly because of all the excessive layers of profit taking by for profit providers, insurance companies, drug and appliance companies and collection agencies which only our very inefficient very ineffective very corrupted system will allow. There is no free lunch. You pay one way or the other. The sad fact is we (ourselves, our employers and our government) on average pay twice what we should have to. I blame the gop... 

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.39  Jack_TX  replied to  JumpDrive @5.1.36    3 weeks ago
*sigh* who do you think pays for people without insurance who end up in ERs? Hint: Hospitals get to distribute those costs across the people who do have insurance.

Or....in the real world, hospitals charge whatever they can get away with, just like every other business.

If charging more is a function of their losses in unreimbursed care, then we could count on them to start charging less if more people had insurance.   Do show the class how that happened as all these additional souls got covered under the Affordable Care Act.  

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.40  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @5.1.38    3 weeks ago
I blame the gop... 

Your child-like misunderstanding of our healthcare system aside, you pretty much blame the GOP for everything from male pattern baldness to pineapple tacos and all things in between.  

 
 
JBB
5.1.41  JBB  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.40    3 weeks ago

You can't tell me how or why I am wrong but you can insult?

Americans in total pay twice as much for worse outcomes...

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.42  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @5.1.41    3 weeks ago
You can't tell me how or why I am wrong but you can insult? Americans in total pay twice as much for worse outcomes...

Yes.  We pay twice as much.  US providers make twice as much.... or more... than most of their counterparts in other countries.   For example, US Medicare reimburses providers about double what Canadian Medicare does.   A Physician's Assistant in the US makes more than an actual primary care doctor in most other countries.  

Yes.  We have worse outcomes.  We live ridiculously unhealthy lifestyles.  Two thirds of us are overweight, and half of those are obese.  We spend a quarter trillion/yr simply on complications of obesity.  That doesn't account for all the other problems our lifestyles generate.  "Walking distance" in most of the United States stops at 100 yards.  We spend over $900 per person per year on fast food alone.

One American in 6 takes medication for "anxiety" and 1 in 7 takes it on a permanent basis.  Because we just can't even. 

US physicians wrote 300 million pain prescriptions in 2015. Americans are responsible for 80% of the world's opioid consumption.  In all, we fill over 4 billion prescriptions per year in the US.  That is an average of 13 scrips for every man, woman and child in this country.  Every year.

We are NOT getting worse outcomes because people are not insured.  As Democrats love to tell us, 90% of us are now covered.  

We are also NOT spending $3.5 trillion/yr because that 10% is not insured.  That's just silly.  

We spend so much and get poor outcomes because we're a bunch of weak, lazy, fat, stupid bastards who expect to live however we want and then go see doctor for magic pills to make us feel all better.

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.43  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.39    3 weeks ago
If charging more is a function of their losses in unreimbursed care, then we could count on them to start charging less if more people had insurance.   Do show the class how that happened as all these additional souls got covered under the Affordable Care Act. 

Actually PPACA cut them out. That's why hospitals were closing emergency rooms because people were actually seeing private doctors instead of using the emergency rooms as primary care.

 
 
JBB
5.1.44  JBB  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.42    3 weeks ago

The ineffective inefficient expensive corrupt healthcare system we all suffer under comes to us courtesy of the damn gop in Congress which has fought tooth and nail to derail all needed changes resulting in the bankruptcies of millions of American families at the behest of med-rich gop doners in the insurance and pharma industries that are making onerous profits at everyone else's expense. It is our own stinking political system (the gop has controlled all brances of government for two years now) we voted for that gave us such our overpriced undereffective messed up healthcare system and that protects and perpetuates the lousy status quo...

 
 
livefreeordie
5.1.45  livefreeordie  replied to  JBB @5.1.44    3 weeks ago

Trump and the current US Congress gave America it's healthcare system?  We haven't had a healthcare system that hasn't been controlled by Government since 1965.

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.46  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @5.1.44    3 weeks ago
The ineffective inefficient expensive corrupt healthcare system we all suffer under comes to us courtesy of the damn gop

Riiiiiiight.  It's all the fault of the people you love to hate anyway.  Amazingly convenient how that always seems to work out.  

which has fought tooth and nail to derail all needed changes

You'll forgive me if I don't believe either the voters or Congress would recognize a "needed change" if it painted itself purple and danced on a piano singing "Needed Changes are Here Again".

resulting in the bankruptcies of millions of American families

Really?  Do cite your source there.  You're not actually believing Steffy Woohlandler, are you?

behest of med-rich gop doners in the insurance and pharma industries that are making onerous profits at everyone else's expense.

How much profit?  Do tell?  How much of each of your healthcare dollars goes to insurer profits?  Pharma profits?  Show us your math skills.

we voted for that gave us such our overpriced undereffective messed up healthcare system and that protects and perpetuates the lousy status quo...

The system we have isn't new.  It's been simmering for nearly 100 years.  We don't have socialized health care because we didn't get the shit bombed out of us in WWII.  

Saying our current system exists to protect big pharma or insurance is like saying the reason there isn't a bridge from LA to Fiji is because the shipping conglomerates don't want it.  That's a simpleton's explanation for a monstrously complex issue.  Don't fall into that trap.  

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.47  Jack_TX  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.43    3 weeks ago
Actually PPACA cut them out.

No, it didn't.

That's why hospitals were closing emergency rooms because people were actually seeing private doctors instead of using the emergency rooms as primary care.

So the whole "stand alone ER" industry that sprouted up overnight shortly after the ACA was passed....that's not a real thing?

 
 
JBB
5.1.48  JBB  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.47    3 weeks ago

The "Doc in a Box" phenomenon did not start with the ACA but it does steer nonemergency traffic to an affordable alternative to emergency rooms for lots of people. A kid with a cold should not be being treated in an emergency room anyway. Unfortunately for the uninsured poor emergency rooms remain an only option. The model for the ACA was Romneycare which evolved from a proposal by the very conservative Heritage Foundation.  

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.49  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.47    3 weeks ago
So the whole "stand alone ER" industry that sprouted up overnight shortly after the ACA was passed....that's not a real thing?

They are a "real thing" but I think there are some things you don't know about that process.

"Urgent Care Centers" are actually doctors offices. 

They treat the uninsured at at better rate than the hospitals.

Here's the kicker, at least in Florida, I have great insurance and I got sick during my primary doctor's vacation. So, I went to an urgent care center owned by the local hospital. 

The very kind and honest lady advised me to use the emergency room and not them because if I use them the insurance company now recognizes the urgent care office to be my primary care physician, "viola!" Now the urgent care people have an insurance paid client. She told me that if I use the ER nothing will change on my insurance.

I am one of those "like your doctor, keep your doctor" people that did get to keep my doctor.

That's why they popped up. Not ACA

 
 
JumpDrive
5.1.50  JumpDrive  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.42    3 weeks ago

You’re right in everything you posted, but your post is also incomplete. It’s still the case that about 30 million people don’t have healthcare. Stats show that between 1 in 800 and 1 in 1000 people without healthcare will die every year because of that. These are 30,000 unnecessary deaths. I’m sure the number of bad healthcare outcomes due to lack of insurance is a far greater number. So, ignoring the human tragedy, lack of insurance will affect our standing.

It’s also the case that private healthcare insurance has 25% to 30% overhead. Medicare has a 3% overhead because there is no profit. Private insurance is about $1.1T/year, so the additional overhead is around $250B/yr.

Another problem is that the Medicare Drug Plan was designed to be a gift to Big Pharma. Medicare pays full price for drugs where the much smaller VA has negotiated about $0.59 per dollar for the same drugs. The cost for Medicare Part D is about $90B/yr, we should be paying closer to $45B.

We also have the problem that Big Pharma is less interested in curing diseases than mitigating them because of the ongoing profit motive. It’s probably the case that we could save a lot of money having the government fund the research for drugs. (and that's all I can remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure this list is far from complete)

It’s a good idea to have private hospitals/doctors/nurses/etc., but private healthcare insurance is one of those things where capitalism pushes things in the wrong direction. No doubt the reason *every* other western industrialized nation has had universal healthcare for more than a century (or as long as it’s existed, like Israel).

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.51  Jack_TX  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.49    3 weeks ago
They are a "real thing" but I think there are some things you don't know about that process.

You do know I consult on this shit for a living, right? 

"Urgent Care Centers" are actually doctors offices. 

We're not talking about urgent care.  We're talking about stand alone ER.  Totally different things.   

Here's the kicker, at least in Florida, I have great insurance and I got sick during my primary doctor's vacation. So, I went to an urgent care center owned by the local hospital. 

Which is neither an ER nor stand alone.  Do you see how this works??

The very kind and honest lady advised me to use the emergency room and not them because if I use them the insurance company now recognizes the urgent care office to be my primary care physician,

First of all, you only have a PCP if you have an HMO plan, which...as you're happy about keeping your doc...it seems unlikely you would have.  Secondly, the insurer doesn't change your PCP because you visit a doctor.  They've already paid a capitation fee to your actual PCP, so they're not going to pay another one.  Thirdly, urgent care is not primary care.  It's billed entirely differently, even if you have the same diagnosis.  Your lady may have been very nice, but she does not appear to be very well informed on how insurance actually works.

That's why they popped up. Not ACA

They popped up because the Affordable Care Act says that all emergency claims must be paid as though they are in-network, whether they are or not.  So out of network ERs basically have license to charge whatever they want, and the insurance companies have to pay it.  We had a client take his daughter into one of these places for stitches on her finger.  $3400 later, she had 5 stitches and a prescription for pain meds.  The same service at Presbyterian Hospital's in-network ER only runs about $200.

This is also why commercial insurance plans are increasing ER co-pays and decreasing Urgent Care copays.  (You do now understand that these places are not the same thing, yes?)  Urgent care is indeed MUCH less expensive, and most of what people go to ER for could have been handled at their local "doc in the box".

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.52  Jack_TX  replied to  JumpDrive @5.1.50    3 weeks ago
It’s also the case that private healthcare insurance has 25% to 30% overhead. 

By law, it doesn't.  In actual fact it never did.  Most of these companies are either publicly traded or member-owned, and publish financials you could read if you were so inclined.

Medicare has a 3% overhead because there is no profit. Private insurance is about $1.1T/year, so the additional overhead is around $250B/yr.

Medicare has at least 10% losses to fraud and improper payments....that the GAO can find.  Nobody really knows how big that number is, but it's at least 10%.  

The fraud losses we know about are double the combined profits of the ten largest health insurers in the US every year.

Medicare also doesn't have to factor in administration on prescriptions, which are the most common form of medical expense.  Finally, Medicare claimants average more than twice the dollar amount of claims than do people on other forms of insurance., which causes admin costs to represent a lower percentage of claims.

Another problem is that the Medicare Drug Plan was designed to be a gift to Big Pharma.

The Affordable Care Act was a big gift to the health insurers.  Medicare is a massive gift to payment contractors.  Or did you imagine government employees paid all those claims?  Odd how more government involvement always seems to lead to higher costs.

Medicare pays full price for drugs where the much smaller VA has negotiated about $0.59 per dollar for the same drugs. The cost for Medicare Part D is about $90B/yr, we should be paying closer to $45B.

The VA is the dispensary.  When you nationalize all the drugstores, you'll get better rates, too.

We also have the problem that Big Pharma is less interested in curing diseases than mitigating them because of the ongoing profit motive.

The existence of Harvoni would seem to challenge that idea.  It could be that diseases are actually pretty hard to cure.

It’s probably the case that we could save a lot of money having the government fund the research for drugs. (and that's all I can remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure this list is far from complete)

The government does fund a lot of the research.  And a lot of those drugs that simply address symptoms are life saving because the symptoms are deadly.  Things like Crohn's Disease are currently incurable but no longer fatal, thanks to biologic immunosuppressants.

It’s a good idea to have private hospitals/doctors/nurses/etc., but private healthcare insurance is one of those things where capitalism pushes things in the wrong direction. No doubt the reason *every* other western industrialized nation has had universal healthcare for more than a century (or as long as it’s existed, like Israel).

Many universal health systems started shortly after...and as a result of...WWII.  We didn't, and at this stage the cost involved is such that we can't get there from here wiithout destroying the healthcare system and economy in this country.

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.53  Studiusbagus  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.1    2 weeks ago
The markets going gangbusters

Really? Which markets?

All of 2018 gains are gone...long gone.

Unemployment applications are up.

US steel opened one blast furnace and the right saw it as the second coming of the almighty. And US Steel's stock is still tanking.

Your tax break has already been swallowed by inflation due to his stupid trade wars. And the tariff taxes you all applauded is going to give back your tax break and then some.

Business bankruptsy is rising faster than any time under Obama.

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.54  Jack_TX  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.53    2 weeks ago
All of 2018 gains are gone...long gone.

"Long gone"....defined as "48 hours".  Dude.  Seriously?

Unemployment applications are up.

And unemployment is at a 50 year low.  

US steel opened one blast furnace and the right saw it as the second coming of the almighty. And US Steel's stock is still tanking.

Steel workers went back to work, even if only temporarily.  That's not a bad thing, by any definition.  The stock market is down because interest rates are up.  We all knew both were coming.  

Your tax break has already been swallowed by inflation due to his stupid trade wars. And the tariff taxes you all applauded is going to give back your tax break and then some. Business bankruptsy is rising faster than any time under Obama.

You're not so stupid as to think that the president controls either the stock market or the economy.  Trump's actions have moved the needle so little in either direction we need an electron microscope to measure it.  

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.55  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.54    2 weeks ago
You're not so stupid as to think that the president controls either the stock market or the economy

Trump does andapparently so do most right wingers as they love to discuss the market and the economy as his miracle until it goes bad like the market has now and the economy starts to falter as it's doing now.....thensome right winger replies with "you're not so stupid as...."

Oh...and the market started to flounder before interest rates were rising.

But just like we heard Bush, now we're hearing from Trump "It's just an adjustment"

Yes, he is responsible for the market and the crash coming.

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.56  Jack_TX  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.55    2 weeks ago
Trump does

No he doesn't.  He just says that because it wins him votes.

so do most right wingers as they love to discuss the market and the economy as his miracle

And your goal is to be at their intellectual level?  Really?

Oh...and the market started to flounder before interest rates were rising.

That's just completely inaccurate.  The Fed started raising rates in 2015.

But just like we heard Bush, now we're hearing from Trump "It's just an adjustment"

The term is "correction".  And we've been overdue for one for a loooooong time.  We're overdue for a bear market, as well.  We haven't had one because interest rates have been artificially low from June 2006 to December 2016.  

Yes, he is responsible for the market and the crash coming.

I'm sure it makes you feel better to think so.  If the sum total of your intellectual involvement in an issue is to root against the side you hate, you would be better off picking a college football team to follow.  

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.57  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.56    2 weeks ago

Jack, normally debating with you can be a good experience and we learn something. I fear this is not the case.

Trump certainly has jittered the markets. Unless of course the teetering after his tariff threats and enactments are all coincidential. 

His tariff talk sparked China to find soy elsewhere and we find farmers are plowing under and taking the 12 billion in relief money. 

His desperate move to pawn off soy on Europe and their lip service made it worse.

His tough talk with our allies has terror groups smiling as we become more vulnerable with our weakening association. You can flash F-35's until one is blue in the face but are useless when the problen is withim our own borders.

Korea is and has been a serious disaster however it's observed. 

His economic preparation has been abysmal. Retail is crashing which will send employment figures in the outhouse.

The tax break is shooting inflation and the deficit upwards. Contrary to what many would like to think, it made minimal improvement in people's lives. The jump in food and the elongated price increase in fuel that is now just dropping from the glut chewed up the tax break. And now the rooster is coming home to the reality, all the cheering by the right about how we're going to punish offshore manufacturers with tariffs until they find that the tariff tax is paid by the US consumer not the offshore company. And will again raise prices.

Business bankruptcy is now the highest since 2011 and jumped 63% from 2017.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/chapter-11-bankruptcies-are-up-63-from-a-year-ago-2018-4

These actions are directly related to the president.

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.58  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.54    2 weeks ago
Long gone"....defined as "48 hours".  Dude.  Seriously?

Yes "Dude". seriously.

Which 48 hours do you want to discuss? The first drop in the market in March? Or the daily free fall we're in now? 

Ever since inauguration day the market went from steady incremental increases to skeetering up and down like a polygrapgh tied to Trump's arm.

Trump's actions have moved the needle so little in either direction we need an electron microscope to measure it.  
 
 
JumpDrive
5.1.59  JumpDrive  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.52    2 weeks ago
By law, it doesn't.  In actual fact it never did.  Most of these companies are either publicly traded or member-owned, and publish financials you could read if you were so inclined.

Private healthcare insurers are limited by law to 15%/20% overhead. The problem is that a percentage of a big number is better than of a small number; minimizing healthcare costs minimizes profit. People believed that limiting liability would lower insurance premiums by eliminating a lot of procedures done for fear of lawsuits, but in states where this was done that did not happen. The system is structured to maximize spending. Hence, the effective overhead of the system is higher than the law would seem to permit.

Fraud is present in the private sector as well. Dramatically increased fraud detection was one of ACA’s pillars. Crime is a universal overhead.

The Affordable Care Act was a big gift to the health insurers. Medicare is a massive gift...

ACA & Medicare have insuring more people as their primary purpose, and include new revenue and cost cutting measures. Of course this brings new business to providers. Medicare Part D is unfunded and the non-negotiating restriction as well as the restriction against drug importation made sure to funnel as much money as possible to the drug companies. I do know that even Democrats refused to vote for this law as did Republicans. It was only through arm-twisting late into the night that the Bush administration was able to force this law through.

The VA is the dispensary.  When you nationalize all the drugstores, you'll get better rates, too.

Insurers don’t run dispensaries, but they do negotiate prices. I hadn’t looked at Part D since its inception. Turns out that competition between Part D insurers has actually lowered drug costs. Frankly, this is confusing because I spoke with a person who does major buys of drugs for large organizations and he did say that negotiating for Medicare is not permitted. Perhaps where there are drugs for the same purpose, the manufacturers compete to be the preferred choice.

The existence of Harvoni...

Examples of cures are not indicative of overall behavior. And yes, the government does fund research, in fact, initial research into cancer and viruses was made by the gov’t. The potential was too low for Pharma to invest before those breakthroughs. The government should be doing more; that would make possible research on diseases that don’t afflict a profitable subset of the population. It also allows for more basic research where the benefit is not immediately obvious.

The problem is not that “we can't get there from here”, the problem is that Republicans would destroy ACA, Medicare, & Medicaid if they could. Republicans have worked tirelessly to damage ACA rather than to get people the healthcare they want. Where Republicans and Democrats work to make the system work, like Massachusetts, it works.

Medicare would not exist if “we can't get there from here”. We are paying twice as much for healthcare with no better results than countries with universal healthcare. Seems like there’s a lot of money to be saved somehow, or at least redirected to provide healthcare to the 10% of Americans without it.

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.60  Jack_TX  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.58    2 weeks ago
Trump certainly has jittered the markets. Unless of course the teetering after his tariff threats and enactments are all coincidential.

They're not coincidental.  But they're a very, very small impact on the markets relative to interest rates. 

It's also not a coincidence that the yield curve always inverts right before a recession.  Interest rates drive institutional investor decisions.  If they can make money in bonds, they prefer that to stocks because it's safer, and money rolls out of the equity markets.  

Interest rates touch every area of our economy.   Higher interest rates slow the housing market, which slows 100 other sub-markets.  It slows the auto market, which slows 100 other sub-markets.  It slows big-ticket consumer spending, commercial construction, and public works projects.  The more expensive it is to finance things, the fewer of those things that happen, and the slower the velocity of money becomes.

Korea is and has been a serious disaster however it's observed. 

Which is not new, not unique to Trump, and has zero impact on the stock market or US economy.  

His economic preparation has been abysmal. 

His preparation has been poor, no qualifier needed.  But most presidents aren't very good in their first two years.  

Retail is crashing which will send employment figures in the outhouse.

Retail is just moving online.  Shopping mall jobs will become warehouse and transportation jobs, which pay better anyway.

The tax break is shooting inflation and the deficit upwards. 

Core inflation for 2018 is lower than it was in 2016.  

Contrary to what many would like to think, it made minimal improvement in people's lives. 

True.  But contrary to what most liberals like to hear, it wasn't a terrible thing.  

the tariff tax is paid by the US consumer not the offshore company.

That's the problem with all this, isn't it?  People want American jobs back manufacturing American goods in American factories....but then they don' want to pay the higher prices...which is why all those jobs went to Asia to begin with.

These actions are directly related to the president.

The president doesn't have that much power.  No president does.

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.61  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.60    2 weeks ago
That's the problem with all this, isn't it?  People want American jobs back manufacturing American goods in American factories....but then they don' want to pay the higher prices...which is why all those jobs went to Asia to begin with

Thank you for the civil and well thought out responses.

I disagree on a few points, this one in particular. 

I have responded to similar conversations that responded to me " then don't buy Chinese"

It's not just goods made overseas that are involved. It's raw goods and parts of whole goods made in America. Aluminum for instance, the auto industry has turned to aluminum for weight savings and more efficient combustion engines. A good bit of that aluminum is imported.

I've also noted before that "all American" companies like Ames' hand tools state on their equipment "Made in America from domestic and globally sourced parts" 

That globally sourced part is subject to the tariffs as is the American auto.

GM and Ford has both stated that the tariff has created a $1 billion increase in operating costs.

I agree that consumer demand for more competitive discounts has driven foreign manufacturing since the late 50's ( remember hearing back in your childhood adults proclaiming "Japanese made junk") and so many toys and such marked "made in Japan" which is mostly replaced with Made in China or some emerging country.

To the best of my memory, TV's were the first to go starting with JVC and RCA which were one company at a time.

The auto manufacturers followed suit in this drive to their own foolish self inflicted wounds. IE Kia was unheard of until they were contracted to build the Ford Fiesta. The Chevy S-10 started life as an Isuzu. Mitsubishi, which is the smallest Japanese manufacturer was under Chrysler's wing for decades.

All of this mixing has been done for many, many years. Now they will get more expensive due to tariffs you and I will pay, not them. 

Our first new car was an '82 Dodge Omni all American, well and good....nope. When I started needing repairs I found it was actually a Volkswagen.

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.62  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.60    2 weeks ago
True.  But contrary to what most liberals like to hear, it wasn't a terrible thing.  

But it is actually. The tax change is another "bite you in the ass later" legislation. Designed to look great on paper until the bill comes. Reagan went through this same motions and we're still paying interest for it. 

I didn't invoke Reagan as the sole perpetuator of the economic issue but as one of the clearest examples of PR legislation.

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.63  Jack_TX  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.62    2 weeks ago
But it is actually. The tax change is another "bite you in the ass later" legislation.

OK, so let's hear your explanation on that.

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.64  Jack_TX  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.61    2 weeks ago

I agree completely.  

My point was simply that people say one thing but the economics drive them to do another.

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.65  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.63    2 weeks ago
OK, so let's hear your explanation on that.

I'm torn between the short version or the longer version...

I'll try the longer version.

Starting with Reagan, he did his major tax cut and all the while before that economists from both sides told him that he was putting off a solution to the economic problems of the day for future generations to pay off. Reagan went on a campaign to paint them as tin foil hat crackpots. 

Even Reagan saw the writing after the law was signed and increased taxes in various ways but it was too late and npw we are still paying for those decisions.

Clinton came and raised taxes as did GHW Bush before him and we started to see daylight and prosperity.

Fast forward to GW Bush who did the same damn thing as Reagan and set the ending date just inside the next president's term. The damage again was done. 

The right insisted Obama was a tax raiser if he let Bush's tax law expire calling it the Obama tax increase. 

He fiddled with it and came up with a livable plan. Although it seemed to drag on, we were steadily clawing out of the hole. All the indicators were there, a job trajectory, Stock market taking off, businesses opening and feeling secure.

Now comes Trump..His tax reform laws are already starting to falter the deficit and his mouth and trade rhetoric shaking the market.  Business bankruptcy has jumped higher than any time in the Obama era.

Housing and retail are two backbones of our economy, both are getting hammered in a perfect storm. Building materials, something I buy weekly in a small time basis has jumped 21% for me since his tariff bs.  A major old nail manufacturer is closing down, a television manufacturer in SC is shutting down, the one blast furnace that re-opened is not saving US Steel although touted as a great move by Trump. The deal that Trump and Scott Walker cut with Foxconn with a buttload of taxpayer money turned out to be a sham and 1000's of jobs promised is at less than half and each position hired is costing the taxpayer in excess of $1,000,000 each.

All the while the treasury reported a 9% increase incoming the treasury said it doesn't come close to covering his losses. 

Another tax plan that's going to bite us in the ass....

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.66  Studiusbagus  replied to  XDm9mm @5.1.1    2 weeks ago
Those 'magic wand' manufacturing jobs being created.  The markets going gangbusters. 

And the planet you are communicating from is...???

 Stock market is taking a severe beating and top economists are predicting a 2000 point drop in the Dow before this is over....

Oh! And GM announced 14,000 jobs layoff this morning as well as closing 5 plants.

This is just the start....and the Republicans controlled all 3 branches...

 
 
Tessylo
5.1.67  Tessylo  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.66    2 weeks ago
'Oh! And GM announced 14,000 jobs layoff this morning as well as closing 5 plants.'

They're laying off 15,000.  

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.69  Jack_TX  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.65    2 weeks ago

Tax plans do not begin to move the needle when it comes to the economy as a whole.  This is well documented.  Indeed Democrats are famous for telling everyone "tax cuts don't spur economic growth", and they're correct.  Neither, however, do they spur economic downfall.  There just isn't enough money in question, relative to the overall size of the economy.  It's like you trying to push an 18 wheeler.   You can't move it forwards, but you can't move it back, either.

The Trump tax cuts are on pace to generate a $1 trillion deficit over 10 years.  That's about $100billion/yr....in comparison to a $20trillion economy.  That's one half of one percent.

That $1 trillion over 10 years wasn't seen as a problem when the ACA was passed.   It's not seen as a problem when it's lost to Medicare/Medicaid fraud over the same period.

Interest rate changes, however, immediately impact the $82 trillion worth of bonds currently afloat in the US, as well as the $30 trillion market value of stocks.

and each position hired is costing the taxpayer in excess of $1,000,000 each.

I see calculations like this often, and they're usually wrong.  Not saying this one is, but I would want to see the numbers myself.  I remember one conversation with a friend bitching about how Texas paid some Chinese manufacturer over $1m/job to bring 500 or so people to Beaumont.  Turns out it was actually just over $1900/per $60k job, which is a deal you would take a million times over.  Journalists tend to be totally shite at math, so I don't ever trust theirs.

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.70  Jack_TX  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.66    2 weeks ago
And GM announced 14,000 jobs layoff this morning as well as closing 5 plants.

They are going to stop making cars nobody buys.  

It's the end of the world.  We should all immediately retreat to our underground bunkers with canned food and lots of ammo to await the inevitable zombie apocalypse.

 
 
Studiusbagus
5.1.71  Studiusbagus  replied to  Jack_TX @5.1.70    2 weeks ago
It's the end of the world.  We should all immediately retreat to our underground bunkers with canned food and lots of ammo to await the inevitable zombie apocalypse.

Was there a point you were trying to make with that asshole comment?

I'm not in a panic because I don't have to be. 

Do you think that shuttering a factory and terminating 4000 positions is just chaining the gate and 4000 jobs lost? No vision of the businesses around it and involved with it?

Suddenly 4000 jobs closes three restaurants, two bakeries, puts a dent in retail, slows down home building, stops suppliers in their tracks...

It starts a chain reaction that very often pedestrians do not even fathom.

The guy 5 years in to his job delivering transportation film everyday got married, bought a house, and a kid on the way loses that job because the factory closed and nobody is hiring because they're all affected by the closure. 

Can he jump in the bunker with you?

Got a magic wand handy?

 
 
Jack_TX
5.1.72  Jack_TX  replied to  Studiusbagus @5.1.71    one week ago
Was there a point you were trying to make with that asshole comment?

Merely that a profitable company reorganizing to be more competitive in the future is not cause for concern and is indeed how a business should be run.  It's happening at GM for the first time in 50 years.

Do you think that shuttering a factory and terminating 4000 positions is just chaining the gate and 4000 jobs lost? No vision of the businesses around it and involved with it?

Of course it has a ripple effect.  But so does the investment in self-driving, electric vehicle technology happening someplace else.

Can he jump in the bunker with you?

Or...he can sign on with any other transportation company in America.  I've made several road trips to Tennessee in the last year.  Every 18 wheeler I pass has the same sign on the back...."Now hiring drivers".  

The fact is that we're at full employment.  Businesses all over this country are desperate to hire new people.  But it is not feasible or prudent to continue to pay people $40/hr to bolt together a car nobody actually wants to buy.

 
 
cms5
6  cms5    3 weeks ago

I find the obsession of President Trump and the labeling of those who support the President to be rather comical. While it is simple to acknowledge that there are extremists on both sides; those who absolutely hate the President, and those who find the President to be the best thing since sliced bread - Neither has the right to belittle the other.

The continued abuse of those who still support Trump doesn't solve anything at all. Hillary proved that during her campaign. The left leaning media and their skewed polls led to complacency on election day. If anyone is to 'blame' - take a look at all of your blue buddies who took a 'why bother' attitude and failed to cast a vote. Winning the 'popular vote' in already blue states didn't cut it either.

Instead of obsessing over the President...gather all of your 'well educated friends' and motivate them into voting. The mid-terms was a start...but not the finish. Meanwhile, if people choose to see positive in this President...letting that get under your skin is just simply juvenile.

BTW - I will continue to support this President as long as he holds the office. You can label me all that you want. Kicking and screaming has never swayed anyone.

 
 
r.t..b...
6.1  r.t..b...  replied to  cms5 @6    3 weeks ago
Neither has the right to belittle the other.

But what we would do all day? And I agree that the obsessing will only get worse as the Mueller investigation reveals its' conclusions. One side will call for a hanging in the public square while the other will storm the castle, pitchforks in hand, to his defense. Sociologists will be studying this era for a long time in trying to ascertain how we came to be so rigid, so fearful, and so acrimonious. Peace...to both 'sides'.

 
 
Kathleen
6.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1    3 weeks ago

I have to agree with peace on both sides, but that seems like it will never take place.  I have never seen anything like this with politics. No compromise which makes it so much harder with both sides. 

 
 
r.t..b...
6.1.2  r.t..b...  replied to  Kathleen @6.1.1    3 weeks ago
No compromise which makes it so much harder

Politics has always been a blood sport and not for the faint of heart. With the advent of social media, the anonymity it affords allows anyone and everyone to spew the most despicable, unfiltered venom. That has spilled over to poison the 24/7 news cycle and political discourse. We are just learning how to negotiate the instant information age and until we collectively grow up, compromise will be a difficult thing to achieve. As in all things, hope lies in the next generation, they get it.

 
 
Kathleen
6.1.3  Kathleen  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1.2    3 weeks ago
As in all things, hope lies in the next generation.
Funny thing is, my daughter is Liberal, and I respect her choice, I would hope that others would do the same with their choice. It's a matter of working together that would make things much nicer.

 
 
cms5
6.1.4  cms5  replied to  r.t..b... @6.1.2    3 weeks ago
With the advent of social media, the anonymity it affords allows anyone and everyone to spew the most despicable, unfiltered venom. That has spilled over to poison the 24/7 news cycle and political discourse.

This is true and rather frightening. Unfortunately, spewing unfiltered venom doesn't help the 'spewer'. Using labels immediately puts an individual on the defensive. Hillary's use of the label 'deplorables' actually motivated people to vote for Trump.

We can only hope that it gets better.

 
 
r.t..b...
6.1.5  r.t..b...  replied to  cms5 @6.1.4    3 weeks ago
We can only hope that it gets better.

It is like to trying to make anything better...we're unable to make the changes at the macro level, though that is where way too much energy is spent. But we can effect positive change at the micro level, taking personal responsibility to ratchet down the rhetoric, engage in dialogue where disagreements can actually lead to better debate, and ignore those comments and/or commentators that do nothing but detract from the premise that we're all in this together. A lonely voice in the wilderness, but it's the really the only way back to civility and compromise.

 
 
lennylynx
6.1.6  author  lennylynx  replied to  Kathleen @6.1.1    3 weeks ago
"I have never seen anything like this with politics."

None of us have, Ms. Butterfie, we have never seen a horror show quite like Trump!  

 
 
Dean Moriarty
6.1.7  Dean Moriarty  replied to  lennylynx @6.1.6    3 weeks ago

These are good times. We are living in one of the most peaceful and prosperous times in the history of our nation. 

 
 
XDm9mm
6.2  XDm9mm  replied to  cms5 @6    3 weeks ago
I find the obsession of President Trump and the labeling of those who support the President to be rather comical.

The outstanding word of your post is "OBSESSION".   Those against President Trump for the most part are suffering a mental health crisis.  They truly ARE obsessed with Trump, any who support him, and will find fault in anything and everything done.   There is no way Trump or his supporters could placate the haters short of dying off and turning to dust.....   but then, they would complain that Trump and his supporters created a major dust storm.

If any question my contention, here's the definition of obsession.  I suggest some look in the mirror when they read it and include the synonyms.

ob·ses·sion
/əbˈseSHən/
noun
  1. the state of being obsessed with someone or something.
    "she cared for him with a devotion bordering on obsession"
    • an idea or thought that continually preoccupies or intrudes on a person's mind.
      plural noun: obsessions
      "he was in the grip of an obsession he was powerless to resist"
      synonyms: fixationruling/consuming passion, passionmaniaidée fixecompulsionpreoccupationinfatuationaddictionfetishcrazehobbyhorse; 
      phobiacomplexneurosis; 
 
 
Tessylo
6.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @6.2    3 weeks ago

The only obsession we have regarding tRump is getting the truth - which is not possible from him or his corrupt gang of thugs administration.  

 
 
r.t..b...
6.2.2  r.t..b...  replied to  XDm9mm @6.2    3 weeks ago
Those against President Trump for the most part are suffering a mental health crisis.

Thank you for the diagnosis, doctor. On the other hand, to continually excuse the misogyny, the race-baiting, the demonization of a free press, the embrace of dictators, etc. shows a proclivity to bend the narrative to fit an ideology. Equally obsessive per your definition.

 
 
MrFrost
6.2.3  MrFrost  replied to  Tessylo @6.2.1    3 weeks ago

They lack originality, that's for damn sure. The right got tired of being outed as having ""ODS", so in a complete stroke of genius, they came up with "TDS"... LOL 

 
 
XDm9mm
6.2.4  XDm9mm  replied to  r.t..b... @6.2.2    3 weeks ago
Thank you for the diagnosis

You're welcome.    

I'm not a doctor, but if the "diagnosis" fits, you might want to avail yourself of the services of one.

 
 
Phoenyx13
6.2.5  Phoenyx13  replied to  XDm9mm @6.2    3 weeks ago
Those against President Trump for the most part are suffering a mental health crisis. They truly ARE obsessed with Trump, any who support him, and will find fault in anything and everything done.   There is no way Trump or his supporters could placate the haters short of dying off and turning to dust.....   but then, they would complain that Trump and his supporters created a major dust storm

this sounds vaguely familiar... let's substitute Obama for Trump and see what happens shall we ? In fact, from some comments i have seen lately - there seem to be a lot of conservative minded people who still have an obsessive hatred for Obama and can't acknowledge anything good from his administration - but find the current administration to be transparently faultless.

looks like a pendulum thing to me..

 
 
Heartland American
6.2.6  Heartland American  replied to  MrFrost @6.2.3    3 weeks ago

Before you all claim credit for creating ODS, let’s remember that BDS preceded it and his defenders started the whole derangement Syndrome thing.  Also note that Bush was referrred to as a chimp by his detractors before any other President was called some primate variation.  

 
 
MrFrost
6.2.7  MrFrost  replied to  Heartland American @6.2.6    3 weeks ago
Before you all claim credit for creating ODS

I didn't. 

let’s remember that BDS preceded it

Never once heard that one. 

 
 
MrFrost
6.3  MrFrost  replied to  cms5 @6    3 weeks ago
Neither has the right to belittle the other.

The right never got the memo. 8 years in office and most on the right STILL can't seem to spell, "Obama". It's oblabla, ostupid, oretard, (not to mention the racist comments not only about him, but his wife and kids) etc. etc. etc.... But we on the left are show respect to tRUMP? Not going to happen. Sorry. 

Honestly, Obama wore a tan suit and the right wing was outraged for MONTHS. Trump slams a gold star family and not only does the right wing media give trump a pass, they actually back him up?

But the left is supposed to be civil and respectful? Um.....................no. 

 
 
Trout Giggles
6.3.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  MrFrost @6.3    3 weeks ago
The right never got the memo. 8 years in office and most on the right STILL can't seem to spell, "Obama". It's oblabla, ostupid, oretard, (not to mention the racist comments not only about him, but his wife and kids) etc. etc. etc.... But we on the left are show respect to tRUMP? Not going to happen. Sorry. 

I know, right?

cms5 expects us to respect this man when I never saw her rebuke anybody on the right when they mocked Obama and his family with "Obummy, Obummer, Moochelle, etc" or constantly called Mrs Obama an ape or a man.

Sorry, once they get over their double standards I will on mine. I'm trying to take the high road but the hypocrisy of some here on the right is simply breathtaking

 
 
cms5
6.3.2  cms5  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.3.1    3 weeks ago

Actually, I don't expect anything from you at all.

 
 
cms5
6.3.3  cms5  replied to  MrFrost @6.3    3 weeks ago

Expecting anyone on the 'left' to show respect for the current President would be extremely unrealistic, and I never asked for anyone to do so.

I merely pointed out the obsession and the labeling as being comical and ineffective. We can also include the 'tit-for-tat' mentality.

We all get it - you hate anything that isn't BLUE.

 
 
Trout Giggles
6.3.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  cms5 @6.3.2    3 weeks ago

Well all righty then. I pegged you all wrong

 
 
MrFrost
6.3.6  MrFrost  replied to  cms5 @6.3.3    3 weeks ago
We all get it - you hate anything that isn't BLUE.

My truck is white, love my truck. Motorcycle is black, love that too. My BMW that I sold was silver, loved that car. 

 
 
lib50
6.4  lib50  replied to  cms5 @6    3 weeks ago

I believe that when one supports a candidate that espouses racist viewpoints, ignoring that to vote for 'other reasons' one leaves themselves open to being called a racist.  I could NEVER support a candidate with those views no matter what I thought it would do to my finances.  EVER.  So many do it without a second thought and expect the rest of us to go along and pretend the racism means little or nothing, and that ain't happening.  There is a line in the sand, and crossing it loses my vote no matter what.  The fact that so many 'values' voters don't care screams volumes to the world.  Stop trying to pretend this race baiting.   And I do agree with you on the voting and those who can't be bothered. 

You continue to support the president,  if you are part of that shrinking base that he speaks and EO's (using is as a verb here) to,  I guess you wouldn't have a problem calling him your president.  He doesn't speak or EO to the rest of us, he could not care less about anybody except those who fuel him, so why would we consider him our pres if he doesn't?  And sorry, but supporting him does put you in that messy place having to defend against charges of racism because that is such a huge part of who he is.  I don't really know how you keep that stench off because it is pretty nasty.

 
 
Trout Giggles
6.4.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  lib50 @6.4    3 weeks ago
The fact that so many 'values' voters don't care screams volumes to the world

It sure does. It tells me that their so-called values have only ever been window dressing

 
 
PJ
6.4.2  PJ  replied to  lib50 @6.4    3 weeks ago

Bravo

 
 
JBB
7  JBB    3 weeks ago

The once Grand Old Party of Lincoln is now known merely as, "the gop"...

The gop gave us Trump. Trumpism is misbegotten. So, we all must resist.

 
 
1stwarrior
7.1  1stwarrior  replied to  JBB @7    3 weeks ago

Why?

 
 
WallyW
7.2  WallyW  replied to  JBB @7    3 weeks ago
So, we all must resist.

What good has it done for you, or the vast majority of American citizens.

 
 
Cerenkov
7.2.1  Cerenkov  replied to  WallyW @7.2    3 weeks ago

None. It's simply unamerican. 

 
 
Heartland American
7.2.2  Heartland American  replied to  Cerenkov @7.2.1    3 weeks ago

Couldn’t have said it better myself.  You are as usual in all that you post here 100% right on.  

 
 
Jack_TX
8  Jack_TX    3 weeks ago

Item one.... Do not confuse opposition to Democrats as support for Trump.  He is in the WH because that's how much America didn't want Hillary to be president.

Item two.... "Unacceptable" ????  When you get to decide what is acceptable for people to believe, we'll let you know.  

Item three....  Despite silly liberals panicking at a new imagined calamity every twenty minutes, life for regular Americans just rolls on along, and is actually better in quite a few ways since two years ago.  The lesson there is that any president has remarkably little impact on your daily life.

 
 
Phoenyx13
8.1  Phoenyx13  replied to  Jack_TX @8    3 weeks ago
Do not confuse opposition to Democrats as support for Trump.  He is in the WH because that's how much America didn't want Hillary to be president.

i love this reasoning.... like you are stating our elections aren't set up to vote for someone but they are set up to vote against someone... guess what ? if you vote "against" someone - you are voting "for" another person whether you like it or not. 

 
 
Jack_TX
8.1.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Phoenyx13 @8.1    3 weeks ago
i love this reasoning.... like you are stating our elections aren't set up to vote for someone but they are set up to vote against someone... guess what ? if you vote "against" someone - you are voting "for" another person whether you like it or not. 

You're unfamiliar with the concept of "lesser of two evils", I see.

Yes, people often vote for what they see as the lesser evil.

 
 
Phoenyx13
8.1.2  Phoenyx13  replied to  Jack_TX @8.1.1    3 weeks ago
You're unfamiliar with the concept of "lesser of two evils", I see. Yes, people often vote for what they see as the lesser evil.

oh i'm familiar with the concept and it doesn't change this simple fact that i posted and you quoted:

like you are stating our elections aren't set up to vote for someone but they are set up to vote against someone... guess what ? if you vote "against" someone - you are voting"for" another person whether you like it or not. 

i made the important part bold so you wouldn't miss it this time :) we don't vote against anyone - whether we all like it or not - you are voting for someone. It's a very simple concept, regardless of your personal reasons for voting... you are voting for someone. Understand ? (here's another simple concept - when you vote for someone, then you are showing your support for that someone since you voted for them... let me know if that's too difficult)

 
 
Jack_TX
8.1.3  Jack_TX  replied to  Phoenyx13 @8.1.2    3 weeks ago

None of your lovely but pointless pedantic escapades change the fact that one should not mistake opposition to Hillary as support for Trump, any more than one should presume the citizens of Flint, Michigan drink contaminated water because they prefer it.  They simply have no other option.

Many, many, many people who voted for Trump don't like him at all.  But they would rather have his obnoxious yankee ass than Hillary.

I didn't vote for Trump.  But in no way should my vote be construed as support for Hillary.  She is an utterly reprehensible, vile, and despicable human being.  I would have voted for Trump if Bernie had been his opponent.  I can't stand Trump, but I would have voted for Charles Manson to keep Bernie out of the WH.

So we choose from the options the extremist nutjobs of our country present us.  That does not mean we support them.

 
 
Phoenyx13
8.1.4  Phoenyx13  replied to  Jack_TX @8.1.3    3 weeks ago
None of your lovely but pointless pedantic escapades change the fact that one should not mistake opposition to Hillary as support for Trump, any more than one should presume the citizens of Flint, Michigan drink contaminated water because they prefer it.  They simply have no other option.

i guess the simple set up of our elections escapes you - you don't vote against anyone, you only vote for someone (regardless of your personal reasons for hating or not wanting to support another candidate) which means - if you voted for Trump, on paper whether you like it or not (you can't escape this) - you support Trump.

Just like in Flint Michigan - there were other options (4 candidates total or choosing not to vote in the case of the election --- people could get bottled water etc in the case of Michigan).

Many, many, many people who voted for Trump don't like him at all.  But they would rather have his obnoxious yankee ass than Hillary.

which means - if you voted for Trump then you supported him over Hillary (guess what ? that means you support Trump - if you voted for him - since we vote for people and not against people)

I didn't vote for Trump.  But in no way should my vote be construed as support for Hillary.  She is an utterly reprehensible, vile, and despicable human being.  I would have voted for Trump if Bernie had been his opponent.  I can't stand Trump, but I would have voted for Charles Manson to keep Bernie out of the WH.

which means you support other people besides Trump. Congrats !

So we choose from the options the extremist nutjobs of our country present us.  That does not mean we support them.

if you vote for someone - then on paper (and you can't escape this) you support that person since we vote for people and not against people (this is a very simple concept, i'm not sure why you don't understand it)

To pretend otherwise is silly at best. we don't have elections to vote against people and your personal reasons for voting for someone is irrelevant - the fact remains you voted for that person which means you support them, period. Do you understand now ?

 
 
Dean Moriarty
9  Dean Moriarty    3 weeks ago

Nobody gets everything they want in a President the Jebists are not going to be happy with all of Trumps moves same as the Rand Paulists. One thing is almost all Republicans will agree Trump is better than anything the Dems have to offer. He has helped to slow the plague of socialism infesting the country. 

 
 
lennylynx
9.1  author  lennylynx  replied to  Dean Moriarty @9    3 weeks ago

Well, if you think the country is too far left, any right winger would be better than any left winger, ideology wise.  Sure, I get that, I would prefer left Presidents because I think the country is too far right.  BUT, my complaints about Trump have NOTHING to do with left/right politics.  The guy is a total basket case, it's like having a spoiled angry 5-year-old for a president.  His foreign policy is even MORE horrible from a right wing standpoint.  Can you imagine what the hypocrite party would be saying if a Democratic president sucked up to Putin and dissed our allies one tenth as much as Trump does?  They would be peeling Repuke politicians off the congressional CEILING for chrissake.  Sure, I don't like the corporate tax cut or the far right justices, but that's NOT what I'm complaining about.  Trump could not possibly be more unfit for the office he holds.

 
 
WallyW
9.1.1  WallyW  replied to  lennylynx @9.1    3 weeks ago

You are imagining 98% of all this bad stuff supposedly going on.

 
 
Cerenkov
9.1.2  Cerenkov  replied to  WallyW @9.1.1    3 weeks ago

Psychosis.

 
 
Heartland American
9.2  Heartland American  replied to  Dean Moriarty @9    3 weeks ago

You are correct that socialism is an infestation in America.  

 
 
Tessylo
10  Tessylo    3 weeks ago

H'e is in the WH because that's how much America didn't want Hillary to be president.'

Only item . . . More than 3 million voters WANTED HILLARY TO BE PRESIDENT.  

'and is actually better in quite a few ways since two years ago.'

which 'quite a few ways' would they be?

 
 
KDMichigan
10.1  KDMichigan  replied to  Tessylo @10    3 weeks ago
Only item . . . More than 3 million voters WANTED HILLARY TO BE PRESIDENT.  

Who freaking cares other than some uninformed proglibs?

If all of California and New York voted for Hillaryious Hillary who gives a crap, that is why we have the EC. 

If people love left leaning states so much then move there.

 
 
Jack_TX
10.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Tessylo @10    3 weeks ago
Only item . . . More than 3 million voters WANTED HILLARY TO BE PRESIDENT.  

63 million people were so against Hillary that they were willing to vote for one of the most hated men in America, if not the world.  Hatred of Trump goes back to the 1980's and beyond...in case you believed that Millennials invented it.  Yet tens of millions of Americans saw Trump as a better option than Hillary.  

which 'quite a few ways' would they be?

Unemployment is lower.  Minority unemployment is lower.  Wages are higher.  The economy is growing.  The stock market is up.  Median net worth is up.  

For regular Americans who work, pay bills, raise kids, and pay their own way, things are better than they were two years ago.  

 
 
Tessylo
10.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @10.2    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_90_smiley_image.gif

 
 
Jack_TX
10.2.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Tessylo @10.2.1    3 weeks ago

I'll consider that your concession of the point.  

 
 
Cerenkov
10.2.3  Cerenkov  replied to  Jack_TX @10.2.2    3 weeks ago

That's all she has.

 
 
Tessylo
10.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @10.2.2    2 weeks ago
'I'll consider that your concession of the point.'

Nope.

You're also incorrect in the quite a few ways.  No proof, no sources, not true.  

 
 
Jack_TX
10.2.5  Jack_TX  replied to  Tessylo @10.2.4    2 weeks ago
You're also incorrect in the quite a few ways.

That you are unable to enumerate.  Even after two weeks.

So if you haven't conceded the point, I presume you have a more intelligent rebuttal than "is not either" followed by sticking your tongue out?    However based on past history, I'm not hopeful.

 
 
badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη
11  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη    3 weeks ago

Do not mistake your butthurt and sadness for the rest of normal America that accept election results and move on with our lives.

The economy is amazing, I'm making money like the 90s and don't give a rats ass who the president is.

"It's the economy, stupid"

 
 
lib50
11.1  lib50  replied to  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη @11    3 weeks ago
It's the economy, stupid"

Or not, since the gop didn't find it a useful campaign rally cry.  Don't you wonder why? 

 
 
Kathleen
11.2  Kathleen  replied to  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη @11    3 weeks ago

That seems to be the biggest problem.

I am so glad that I am not obsessed with this. I just go on with my life.  It's a sickness.

 
 
JohnRussell
12  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

Donald Trump has never ever ever been a legitimate politician.  His entire political career is fruit from a poisoned tree. People who support Trump in the face of the mountains of evidence that he is a horrible human being and horrible president must then be considered to be among the worst people in America. They support something that has tremendously damaged the country despite the fact that they know it is horrible. If they don't see it is horrible, then they are the worst for their profound ignorance. 

Donald Trump's political career was BORN in a lie. In 2011 he wanted to create a political following among Republicans because he wanted to run for president in 2012. He saw the "birther" movement among tea party Republicans as a place where he could create a political brand for himself and a voter base. So voila he became the nation's chief birther, spending months peddling nonsense intended to discredit President Obama. Trump knew every word he was saying was a lie, but he did it anyway. Because he is a life long liar. 

No patriotic American should have ever again given Trump credence as a politician or a political candidate. He was , in effect, disgraced. 

But, the worst among us welcomed Trump into the 2016 presidential primaries. The very first thing Trump did was to lie about people coming up here from Mexico. Soon he led off his debate appearances by insulting a reporter about menstrual bleeding. He also said that one of his female opponents was too ugly to be taken seriously as a candidate. He called almost every one of his primary opponents childish, idiotic, nicknames. The worst among us laughed and thought this was all jolly fun. Soon Trump was asking the Russians to steal private information from his Democratic opponent. He cozied up to the Russian dictator. Again the worst among us approved. 

Trump's presidency has had a theme of daily chaos. People who know Donald Trump well say the only thing he cares about is fighting. There have been 4 or 5 books written, just in the first two years, that detail, and name names, that discuss the massive dysfunction of the Trump administration. Multiple Trump cabinet members have either been forced to resign or are under investigation for corruption within their departments related to abuse of power or attempts to unethically financially enrich themselves.  

For the first time in modern American history white racists and white nationalists have openly supported and endorsed the president of the United States. That may be in part because Trump and his sons have openly passed on information from white racists and white supremacists on social media. In any case, racist support for Trump and his acceptance of that support is an open secret. The worst among us support Trump in spite of that truth. 

Trump has tried to eliminate every vestige of his immediate predecessors from memory, which has led him to support repeal of "Obamacare" even though Trump has said during the campaign and prior to that , that he supports medical insurance coverage for all. He has us in uncertain and perturbed relations with our closes allies in the world, even while making nice nice with dictators and authoritarians around the world. 

Most of all, Trump is a hopelessly serial liar. He was recently documented making 30 lies every day, as he was trying to convince the worst people in America to vote for him and his chosen candidates in the election. What motivates someone to support a leader who lies to the public 30 times a day?  

It is hardly unfair to refer to Trump supporters in unflattering ways. The real question is why do others , independents, moderates, libertarians, accept Trump as just another "partisan". 

 
 
Jack_TX
12.1  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @12    3 weeks ago
Donald Trump has never ever ever been a legitimate politician.

You say as though there is such a thing as a "legitimate" politician...and they're not all bastards.  

You also say that as though being a "legitimate politician" is somehow a good thing.  In what universe is that the case?

 
 
badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη
12.2  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη  replied to  JohnRussell @12    3 weeks ago

Wow it's like election night at the Hillary headquarters all over again. It's hard to watch the drama llama tears.

It's time to man up, reach between and get over it.

Join a bingo club, get some fresh air etc

 
 
Cerenkov
12.2.1  Cerenkov  replied to  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη @12.2    3 weeks ago

I enjoy the liberal tears. They are invigorating. 

 
 
Heartland American
12.2.2  Heartland American  replied to  Cerenkov @12.2.1    3 weeks ago

I know!  Looking at pictures of the Hillary victory party in NYC on 11-9-16 since it was after midnight their time is still a pleasure for me.  

 
 
It Is ME
13  It Is ME    3 weeks ago

"If you support Trump, after all he has said and done, you are simply not a worthwhile human being."

I HATE this economy now. jrSmiley_50_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_30_smiley_image.gif

"Calgon" bring me back to the days of Struggling" jrSmiley_15_smiley_image.gif

 
 
badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη
13.1  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη  replied to  It Is ME @13    3 weeks ago

The obama economy.......no one wants that back. Not even the Obama's.

 
 
MrFrost
13.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη @13.1    3 weeks ago

800

 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
14  Perrie Halpern R.A.    3 weeks ago

I need to remind people of some things. The CoC is in effect on a blog. Violations will not be tolerated. 

Also when report violations and you are using the note section, please do not send us insults about a member. 

Thank you. 

 
 
lennylynx
14.1  author  lennylynx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @14    3 weeks ago

Lol, you better keep an eye on this if you care about the CoC, I'll let everything go! jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
14.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  lennylynx @14.1    3 weeks ago

Lenny, 

You need to read the CoC. This is your responsibility to make sure that the CoC is not violated 

 
 
lennylynx
14.1.2  author  lennylynx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @14.1.1    3 weeks ago

I interpret the CoC in a very liberal manner! jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη
14.1.3  badfish hαηd ⊕ƒ †hε Ωuεεη  replied to  lennylynx @14.1.2    3 weeks ago

If you treat the coc with respect, it will never let you down

 
 
Heartland American
14.1.4  Heartland American  replied to  lennylynx @14.1.2    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
freepress
16  freepress    2 weeks ago

Take any of the gaffes, the policies enacted, the things Trump says and does, the people he tolerates and appoints, then apply all of it to the name Obama or Hillary.

Nothing Trump does, says, tolerates, enacts, or enables is putting America first, it is tearing down and burning down democracy while he knows the victims who have bought into his con job will cheer him on.

His supporters wouldn't tolerate anything he does if you block out the Trump name and put the name Obama in front of it.

Trump is trying to emulate Hitler and he is trying to recreate the new Third Reich. No one should have a book of Hitler's speeches at their bedside table. 

Yet the rubes who listen to his outrageous diatribes and taxpayer funded "rallies" don't even realize how they are being used.