We Need to Accept That At Least 70 Million Americans Just Suck
By: The Rude Pundit
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
I have never disliked anyone because of their income. Poor, rich, it's fine. I've never condemned anyone for their race or their gender or any aspect of their identity. I don’t even hold people’s beliefs against them until they try to impose them on me or use them to harm me or others. Then, whether they're religious or political or social, fuck your beliefs and fuck you for having them.
So if you think that I’m just supposed to forgive a bunch of racists fucknuts who decided that I am not really American and who attacked others, directly or through people they elected, yeah, fuck that. If someone has a shitty ideology, they need to give that shitty ideology up before we’ll even talk about forgiveness. And right now, Trump voters aren't giving up on a thing, so, yeah, I'm gonna fucking continue with my condemnation, my ridicule, and my dismissal of them.
That's not just because they spent the last five years (including the campaign) allowing their hate-filled ids to run rampant. No, that wasn't enough. It's that they actively rejected science, favoring the gut instincts of an objectively failed businessman over people who had spent their whole lives studying things like diseases and the climate. It's that they rejected things that were occurring right before their eyes, preferring whatever algorithm fucked their faces with a continuous feed of lies on their Facebook pages. And, more importantly, it's that they dragged the rest of us down with them and then thought we were the traitors for not agreeing with them.
They dragged us backwards as we saw scenes out of the civil rights era take place before our eyes or to us, along with anti-Semitism and Islamophobia and anti-LGBTQ bias, putting so many people in real danger. They joined or cheered on terrorist groups they called "militias," who really believe they might have to start killing us. They bought into the most idiotic of conspiracy theories by the millions. They degraded and debased us as they cheered on the cruelty of the Trump administration and laughed at us for how upset their savagery made us, mocking us for normal human emotions, like sympathy for migrant families fleeing brutality and death only to be subject to the depraved actions of our government. Instead of trying to empathize, they sent us Pepe the Frog memes and accused of never getting over the 2016 election and said we only cared about the Russia hoax or the Ukraine hoax or the COVID hoax and drank our liberal tears.
And if some of them say they didn't believe any of this shit, they just liked the tax cuts, well, they fucking tolerated it and did nothing to stop it. So fuck 'em, too.
I want them to face consequences for their actions. If they committed crimes, of course they should be arrested. Jesus Christ, break up the goddamn militias. But even beyond that, the nation as a whole, the majority that doesn't believe this shit, needs to spurn them and not merely let them crawl back under their rocks until the next demagogic con man comes along to scratch that hateful itch. You apply for a job and someone googles you and finds you screaming insane shit about Tom Hanks drinking baby blood? Yeah, fuck you, Jesse, you can go shovel shit at your Nazi uncle's farm than work the cash register at the local Target. Chase these fuckers out of civil society. Let them walk in the wilderness for a while. You can't just fucking be a racist piece of shit without some fucking consequences. It shouldn't work like that. We shouldn't allow it to work like that.
And, goddamnit, we need to hold companies like Fox, like One America, like Sinclair, like fucking Facebook accountable for spreading lies, real lies, that do real harm to the country. That needs to be done in a legitimate way, not by braying , "Section 230." There has gotta be a fucking balance between censorship and treating the First Amendment like a suicide pact.
And, goddamnit, we need to improve education in this country, with shit like media literacy and motherfucking civics. We need to take over school boards to ensure that real history and mind-expanding science and literature are being taught, not the whitewashed faux-patriotism and forced ignorance that the right imposes on too many. Jesus, none of this should be controversial. It's just fucking wrong that it is.
So many times in the last few days, since Joe Biden and Kamala Harris were declared the winners of the presidential race, I've heard someone say that it's fine to be happy, but "we have to grapple with the fact that 70 million still voted for Donald Trump despite everything that we know about him. What are we going to do about that?"
My response is simple: Maybe we just need to accept that at least 70 million Americans are just shitty people. And, frankly, it's on them to change. They're not fucking children. They're adults who made adult decisions. I'm so fucking sick of the infantilization of the Trump voter, the idea that they're these naifs who need to be nurtured into some kind of maturity, that they have fears of the progressive world (even as they benefit from it in many places with expanded Medicaid), that they are uneducated and inundated with bullshit from Fox "news" and its devolved progeny in the nutzoid right-wing media.
Fuck that. They chose this ideology. They chose what to believe. They decided to be a bunch of scabby pricks. They gotta own that shit. Forgiveness is wasted on those who refuse to believe they need to be forgiven. The more charitable of you might be able to do it, but I'm not fuckin' charitable to these goons and freaks and worms. Donald Trump played 'em like a goddamn fiddle. Hell, he's still playin' them, squeezing them for more cash under the umbrella of his bullshit "voter fraud" lawsuits. Until they wake the fuck up or are woken the fuck up, they need to exist as a warning not to let them get more power than they have and to work like hell to take away their remaining power.
It's time to tell Trump voters to spend a little time trying to understand Biden voters so they can see why we fucking kicked Trump's ass.
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I don't want any apology from any of the cult followers.
me either, fuck them. it would be the typical non-apology apology from them anyway. after they dig the holes in their backyards, they can ditch their masks, social distancing, and head for their thumper madrasas or tea party militia meetings for all I fucking care.
I hear Venezuela is nice this time of year
somalia would be a lot better, they can't drive here from there.
they can't drive here from there.
... but I fully encourage them to try.
And Somalia is a Libertarian Paradise!
no doubt. lots of jews to convert and muslims to kill up north and lots of black folks to offer many unpaid internships to in the west and south. all within an easy drive and no taxes !!!
And any war lord you want to serve!
directly east ...
you mean gang leader thugs that need to get 2nd amendmented.
Problem being that Covid will still keep trucking on.
Without masks an distancing we're all fucked!
I was pretty specific on who I thought needs to get fucked.
Yes, anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you politically.
Got it.
I would like to say I am surprised, but that would be a lie.
meh, why stop now after 5 years.
Because after 5 years I can spot bullshit a mile away.
So I am not surprised to see yet more of it here.
Your post is a fine example.
Not to worry...
They literally cannot bring themselves to accept that they have been s-o-o-o wrong... that they have been bamboozled... that they have been "suckers and losers".
... so of course they have no reason to apologize.
I am going to try and be more civil.
Wish me luck with that
What did you say?
You're going to try for more civil war?
Funny, Bob
that's the type of comment that gets deleted/ticketed in your groups and I've got an itchy trigger finger.
I hope not. This thread isn't under a strict "on topic" rule. As most are not on The Beacon.
Unless there's a strict "on topic" rule, no good-humored post should ever be ticketed.
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I thought he was joking around with me. It's all good
Trout G', you are on-balance, my dear. These Trump surrogates have been cruel, braggadocios, and 'in yo face' for four years now. The truth is Joe Biden kept his word: "I will beat Donald Trump like a drum." (September 21, 2019.) We can all breath a bit easier now, because on our worse behavior days- we are not cruel, braggadocios, or "in you face." We just want to be firm in getting the truth into some whether narrow-minded and stuffy heads.
Donald Trump
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Joe Biden is...
For lower taxes for earners under $400,000.
For secure borders!
For low unemployment and has programs that will get Americans back to work at better paying more secure jobs.
For Fair Trade
For the First Amendment
For the Second Amendment and for enforcing existing laws including background checks and accountability.
Joe doesn't want any wars or to weaken our military or police.
Joe Biden has been a solid statesperson his whole career and before Trump's slanders of his good character nobody who knows him has ever said anything but good things about him personally.
I realize that inside the rightwing bubble they say nothing but bad things about him. That he is a philandering paedophile. That isn't true!
So, Cry Me A River!
You guys lost big because most Americans are getting sick of your fake self righteousness.
You have exactly no moral authority after falsely accusing an innocent man of abusing children and selling out. Joe Biden? GOOH!
Fuck being civil!
All who deny anthropogenic global warming and covid will get sick and die.
go natural selection go!
Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.
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Bob, the CoC already has a strict 'on topic' rule. There is no need to reiterate it.
[Deleted. Take it to Metafied.]
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Now that's eloquence
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I didn't expect one nor do I want one. I figured you got what you deserved after 4 years of non-stop hero worship of a man with clay feet
Well, Donald Trump failed at his 'war' and millions are sick and hundreds of thousands are dead on his 'Watch'!! You may find that as 'prosperity,' but the next four years will 'flesh' it out just in time for 2024! Lots gonna change 'tomorrow.' Bet on it!
Even though Trump has been proven to be insane you would still vote for him?
/
He hasn’t been proven to be anything but a wise leader with good policies. So yes, given the chance I will proudly vote for him again in 2024.
Xx, that has to be right up there with THE most delusional comment you have ever posted and that's saying something...
"Show them no mercy--For you shall receive none." Aragorn at the Battle of Helm's Deep.
Doubt that sub 100 IQ folk would ever apologize for even their worst mistakes.
Donald Trump is the worst of the worst sub humans.
Donald Trump is a great American. Joe Biden is the worst of human waste and scum, the definition of human debris.
Donald Trump doesn't even know the meaning of being an American. As everyone with even a modicum of intelligence is well-aware, Trump is a dictator-loving POS who is likely going to jail, where he undoubtedly belongs. In the modern era, there has never been a President who has caused more damage and been a greater disgrace than Donald Trump. Joe Biden, on the other hand, is a reasonable, rational, patriotic public servant, recognized as such by Democrats, Republicans and Independents, which was clearly demonstrated by the nearly 80 million Americans who have put their trust in Biden and voted for him with these historic election results.
To call Joe Biden "the worst of human waste and scum, the definition of human debris" is a comment demonstrating utter depravity.
Many of the righties on NT are having a meltdown. They are now playing the squirrel game, look over there...LOL
I don't have any use for any of them, they can take their apology and stuff it.
The best medicine of all is that Joe, the worse presidential candidate in history according to Trump is winning the popular vote by over 5 million votes...That has just got to burn Trump's ass and that of his lemmings.
No kidding! It has become downright indignant around here. I'm still a little surprised by Vic's behavior yesterday.
bfd, fuck those trumpster morons.
Yup.
There are 70 million shitty Americans.
They fucking vote.
Donald Trump got the second-most votes ever in the history of the republic.
There is every reason to presume that they will vote again in 2022 and again in 2024... and every two years until they grow old and die.
They cannot be convinced. They cannot be converted. The Constitution gives them (small, rural) nearly unbeatable over-representation.
Unless all small-d democrats understand that the next defeat will be the end of democracy in America, and bury their differences, and get out the vote...
... we're screwed...
I think the number is closer to 40 million with another 30 million who don't pay enough attention to politics and bought the lies fed them by conservative Republicans about this being a referendum between Democracy and socialism. I think 30 million of Trumps voters were just scared to death by the 24/7 footage of riots and cars burning even though virtually none of them actually saw any of that with their own eyes in their cities because 95% of the protests were peaceful. But Fox spent 100% of their broadcast to focus on the 5% of protests that turned violent and they refused to include the fact that there were many right wing infiltrators and instigators. So I feel bad for those 30 million who were simply bamboozled by the right wing lie machine, but the other 40 million who know who Trump is, know he's a worthless racist but see that as a feature, not a bug, they're the ones who I consider worse than 'shitty Americans' and closer to traitors as they have definitely given aid and comfort to our worst foreign enemy that is determined to destroy America. Russia realized they no longer have a military that could destroy America from without, so they had to work on destroying us from within and those 40 million who think of Russia as a friend and ally and don't care that Putin worked hard to get Trump elected were the perfect dupes Putin used to cause division and chaos.
Ignorance is not an excuse.
Watching Fox 24/7 is a choice. Viewers know what the network's biases are. Watching Fox is a willful choice in favor of ignorance.
You're right that many of these people are Trumpists because their neighbors are. Unfortunately, many of them (perhaps because they actually understand nothing) feel obligated to show vehemence.
Those who understand the least are often the most vociferous.
I'm one of those people who is planted firmly in trmp country and don't give a rat's ass what my neighbors think. Hell, my own husband is a trmper and so are all of his buddies.
I'm the odd ball of the group
meh, you're smart, a lot of people don't have the mental capacity to reject military brain washing.
Believe me they tried.
While Arizona went blue (just barely), and now has two Democratic Senators... my corner, in the southwestern corner, is still solidly red.
I'll be returning to Yuma in early December. I wonder if I'll still see a Trump flag on every other home.
I didn't realize that AZ elected 2 Democratic senators.
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That is uncalled for. And people here say that Democrats only want one party - just goes to prove to them it is NOT the democrats that want that.
Have you noticed that lots of people accuse others of doing what they themselves intend to do?
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Then flag it instead of posting shit not worthy of discussion.
I notice that a lot here and in the "real" world. I am just weary of it & am tired of just letting it go without calling it out.
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Yup...
I took the same oath, but that's not the brain washing. The brain washing was from those who thought you should only vote republican because we needed that money for our shiny new toys.
I will defend my country against all enemies foreign and domestic....be they right wing or left wing
I know exactly how you feel.
It's kind of nice to have a mind that works.
I think that is what bothers me the most. They don't seem to mind being dragged back to the fifties & beyond, where white men were supreme & could beat their wives & children with no consequence. Women & children were chattel, people of color were meant to clean up after them, women were meant to produce 8-12 kids (one every year), stay home, take their valium and shut up....
BUT - they also want to keep all of their modern conveniences... as long as the white men have control over how they are used.
Yup.
Good summary...
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Uh huh - sure, Keep playing that note. A little off key though.
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That is your belief, not mine - I am not the one supporting candidates that think BC is bad, women should be forced to carry EVERY pregnancy to term. Some people have evolved - some have not.
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And I believe the majority of Americans do not want to live in Trump's world view of America - as proven by the Biden win.
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The rule of the thumb?
Or fist.
The events of WWII were the start of crumbling of that mentality, at least the 'stay home' part of it.
The nation heralded the patriotism of women working 'for the war effort' in factories and in just about every other job that needed to be done. Women proved that they could do the job to a high degree of expertise AND keep their families running WITHOUT their 'menfolk'.
When the war ended, women were expected to quit their jobs and go back to the kitchen. Of course, the government and the society desperately tried to ignore the fact that 10s of thousands of 'menfolk' weren't coming home and that over 87% of those women wanted to keep their jobs and they had earned the right to do so. Most were pressured to quit or were just fired outright. It was a disgusting betrayal.
But is was impossible to put the Genie back in the bottle.
Yet it still took decades after that for women to get anywhere near equal treatment under the law. Until the early 70's, my mom was forced to have a credit card and checking account in my fathers name, even though she worked full time all of her adult life and by the late 60's was an Management Executive. Ironically, when it came to debt, after my father 'abandoned' us [good riddance] they had no problem forcing my mom to pay off loans my father took out for his own benefit and without her knowledge. It took her 3 years to get out from under HIS debt.
I have to remind some people that "Father Knows Best" was a TV show. No vacuuming in heels (for most women). And even today some states require a husband's agreement when his wife wants to have a tubal ligation. Sad isn't it, but it continues even here on NT when a woman is called a "whore" simply because she is a Democrat (the person that labeled her a whore did not label Palin's daughter as such for getting pregnant as a teen & unmarried).
For many women are still considered second class citizens. Still a glass ceilings in many companies. Still pay higher prices for hair styling, clothes, shoes etc.
As an information analyst I am considered by some men I train as knowing less than them since I am a woman, As a woman I shouldn't know computers. A little frustrating, annoying and disturbing.
You know what is interesting about this talk you and Dulay are having is this: It reminds me of something PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) did and it worked! Remember the campaign to stop people from promenading around in the skin and fur of animals? They ruined the expensive pelts and made the wearer a 'has been' spectacle.
We need an approach that gets into the bent-headed psyche of meddlesome conservatives. Verbally and figuratively putting them on notice that CHANGE is not coming: CHANGE IS HERE!!!
Hit the ground running with it.
I can say this for myself: I am done accepting the derogatory terms used against women for behaving on par with men.
Ambitious man = pushy woman
Outspoken man = bitchy woman
"mac" daddy = whore
I am tired of it & will now be asserting my displeasure.
I assume (hope?) that on NT misogynistic language would be ticketed.
It hasn't been so far, but I am going to point it out every time I see it.
What gets me even more is that all too many women have internalized that shit. Men rarely if ever use bitch as an 'endearment' while women do so regularly now. I suppose it's a re-appropriation to ameliorate a pejorative that saturates society but it irks me every time I hear it.
Never saw Hazel doing that shit...
I know what you mean. Drives me batty.
The reason that campaign was effective was because peer pressure on people of conscience who were encouraged to have empathy. Conscience and empathy are becoming a rare commodities of late.
Flag it. I don't know which label to use... perhaps "taunting".
I have.
HA! And all this time I considered it was because that fur splashed with 'red' was too tawdry and oft in need of cleaning!
Skillful male driver = crazy woman driver
gay bachelor = old maid
Ladies man = whore
... we're screwed...
yes...the libs are as powerful now as they ever will be. From here they begin their great spiral downward
It's coming...the first clue will be the Republicans taking back the House and gaining in the Senate at midterm.
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We sure as hell don't! Which is why the majority of us voted out trmp
You better inform the Republicans.
I would love to see more than 2 party rule in this country.
America's "first past the post, winner take all" voting makes it very difficult for a third party to survive. Countries with healthy multi-party systems allhave voting systems designed to promote small parties.
So would I.
Well Greg, you suck at prognosticating, but you are consistent....
From May of 2019
or this gem.
or
Want more? I have many, cheers.
This centrist worries about folk who define folk as either "right or left".
There are so many who don't identify either way.
I have no idea what that might be today. Seriously.
As far as I can see, the right has no policies, other than tax cuts for the rich.
There is no "left" in America. (As someone who lives in Europe half the time, I know what "left" means. The spectrum in the Democratic Party goes from center-right to center-very-slightly-left.)
I do not see any space for a centrist.
What policies do centrists support?
The policies that pretty much piss everybody off just when folk think they know you.
For once I actually agree with the entire article. Its hard to look out my window (I live in trump country) and realize that most of my neighbors are just a bunch of racist POS's. I admit I've been having fun watching all the conservative meltdowns in my community and here on NT.
To Greg (in CO and TX) and all the others I have one question. what have you shown me in the last 4 years that would make me want to vote for a Republican? Keep in mind that until a few years ago I was a firm believer in split ticket voting. After the debacles of the current administration and Senate I just witnessed, why would I even think of voting for conservatives again?
Well sometimes, albeit rarely, a good person manages to get on a ticket, and after all, it always boils down to two people.
Sometimes you just have to vote for the person with the least baggage.
signed, Ex-Republican, ex-smoker and excommunicated.
I could be convinced to vote for another republican or third party. I just have to be convinced that the person they want me to vote for has the country's best interests at heart
I always look at all the candidates. I would have voted for McCain in 2000, but he lost the nomination to GW. I would have voted for Jon Huntsman, but he lost the nomination...
I could honestly, in good conscience, never vote for another republican as long as McConnell is still in the senate. He has single handedly sealed my vote for opposition to his draconian ways.
Still working on that smoking thingy.
Neighbor was bitching about masks & smoking laws the other day from across the street and bragging about having his
adult children over every Sunday ( Two nurses and a H City detective ) and his grandchildren.
I said remember smoking 40 years ago in restaurants ? No , he says.
How about the bunkers in Vietnam, I said. I know you remember that as if it was last week, living underground
with people smoking pot, weeds, cigarettes and cigars, if you could see the other end of the bunker,
or if there was just a permanent haze ( and stink ), you remember it every time you wear that airborne ball cap.
That's what we have to think of when we think of the virus because it's the same, we just can't see it.
That's why I don't mind talking to you from a distance of 15 feet outside
and I don't mind the Trump flag because it warns me which way the wind blows,
but you'd better start wearing masks inside your house when you fill it with family
so you don't all end up sick at the same time.
He brushed me off...
I have to say that I am truly shocked at the willful ignorance of all too many in the US. The evidence is clear, it's right in front of their mask-less faces and they still continue to whistle passed the graveyard.
I wouldn't mind leaving them to Darwinian repercussion but they are taking the rest of us down with them. They demand the 'personal choice' to refuse to help mitigate the effects of the pandemic while utterly ignoring the fact that they are denying the rest of us the 'personal choice' of feeling safe in our own communities.
I went to Aldi's yesterday for my monthly stock up and was happily surprised to see the vast majority of people wearing masks. Of course there was one utter asshole, unmasked and walking around talking away on his Bluetooth, wafting cooties wherever he went. Though he was oblivious, everyone gave him a wide berth, which caused 'road blocks' whenever he stopped to pick out his groceries. Thankfully, I had already picked up my onions and potatoes before he got near them.
"Thank you for your service." You did right by your neighbor. And for a good work I give you kudos.
I went out to this little shop I love to frequent x 2 weekly. As I was not in a rush and the front door is 'marked up': "Wear a mask." —on this day several people came in back to back separately unmasked. One did the old pull up his shirt over his mouth and nose (ineffective) trick. But, the one I want to talk about was a man on a motorized power-scooter. I offered him to go ahead of me and noticed he did not have any pretense of a mask covering.
So, from behind my mask and eye-wear covered face in my most amicable voice I asked him: "Where is you mask?" From his seated position, he looked back at me and blinked nary saying a(nother) word. At that moment, for the first time since the "mask-escapades" in our country's digest I had a feeling of dread rush over me in the form of a sketchy 'vision' of this man pulling out a gun from the 'dash' of his scooter and shooting me. Indeed, he actually reached up toward the front of his scooter straightway.
Well, I survived. Only to see another lady coming in through the front door—unmasked. I got the "h" out of there!
Saying 'were is your mask?' to the Aldi's asshole was on the tip of my tongue but as you said, I got the hell out of there instead. It's always my goal to get in and get out of stores ASAP. Having an intellectual argument with an unarmed person wouldn't further that goal.
Right on! Sometimes you just have to declare victory and move on! Else you could end up tussling and rolling around on the floor in a Covid-19 cloud free for all!
I had the same type of experience a couple of days ago at my local grocery store. While waiting on the person in front of me at the register, a woman about 30 to 35 years old comes up behind and starts unloading all her items behind my 3 items. Bear in mind that there are markers on the floor showing 6 foot distances and a sign above that says "Maintain Social Distance of 6 Feet" in both Spanish and English. I live right on the border so we get many people from Mexico that come here to shop. After depositing her items she proceeds to stand about 2 feet behind me and has no mask and neither do her three kids. I look at her and ask her in fluent Spanish if she knows what 6 feet is? She blinks her eyes a couple of times before replying that she nor her do not have to wear a mask. I proceeded to point to the marks on the floor and the sign above the register that said otherwise. She then replied that she was from Mexico and not subject to our laws. By this time the clerk checked me out and as I was leaving the woman cussed me out and called me several colorful and vulgar foul names in Spanish. I just turned to her and smiled and said have a nice day. True words that sometimes you just cannot fix stupid!
Well done!
Yep. I don't get it. Not at all. I go to the "mom n pop" grocery store where they're enforcing mask wearing for their patrons and employees alike. I've seen a couple of young kids [not in school yet] without them, but very few and the parents are [surprisingly] wearing masks. Now however, over the age of 2 is required to wear a mask or shield. I get it, no one likes it, especially little kids, who are defiant and it's not always feasible to get a sitter or have a significant other be at home with the little one [some may not have a significant other], but I also understand that kids are germ-spreaders and when they sneeze or cough, generally don't cover their faces. I don't say anything to those not masking, but I also stay away from them... as far as possible.
Do you think if I go to Mexico I can tell law enforcement that I'm not subject to their laws?
You are more than welcome to try but I would not recommend it. By the time you got done paying for a Mexican lawyer and paying mordida, slang for bribes to crooked cops and officials after getting arrested, you might get out of the country with the clothes on your back and not much else! One does not mess with the Mexican police or justice system.
I think you're right. And I hear a Mexican prison is no place to spend your retirement years
If you ever saw the movie Midnight Express showing a Turkish prison in the late 70's early 80's, a lot of Mexican prisons are very similar. Not nice places at all.
I read the book before I saw the movie. The book was a lot scarier than the movie and taught me a lesson about trying to smuggle drugs across borders
Yes! I think it is Covid-19 familiarity relief that people are displaying. It is as if they are saying, "I got this!" Meaning the virus under control in their life. Just yesterday I observed a "train" of people throughout a local shopping center (employee and customers) with their noses definitely peeking atop their masks. Mind you, if you nose is atop your mask - obviously you are breathing in the surrounding air and vacuuming 'off' the top half of your 'protector.'
On MSNB last Sunday (yesterday) I heard a line in a Richard Engel coronavirus special (paraphrased): 'A virus is so small that you need a separate microscope to see it. 100,000 coronavirus can fit on the head of a pin!'
So, we're not going to see the 'attack' of the virus that infects anybody. We're not going to smell it or taste it. We simply have to 'imagine' it is all around us at any given moment. And be on our best guard!
If the election was rigged, why would we not rig it against Moscow Mitch and Miss Graham also?
Really. Terrible job there...
Exactly. Removing Trump was just the tip, although it is a big one, of the proverbial iceberg. Moscow Mitch, Graham, and others who are intent on destroying this country for their own selfish reasons and financial gains should never have been reelected. Shame on the states that did that. So, why would we not rig their chances also?
It seems that Graham was trying to rig Georgia.
Sickens me to think that piece of shit just got elected for six more years.
He is a disgusting scumbag.
Me too, I sent money to Jaime Harrison's campaign. He was so close.
That's only on the assumption that it was rigged at all, which I personally don't believe it was.
I still vote split ticket. I've never tried to convince anyone as to who they should vote for, so I certainly don't intend to start now.
That's nice, though of late its been a bit more of a split country vote, not just a split ticket.
Trump has demonstrably lost, he is a loser, the sooner his base comes to accept that the sooner we can start trying to come together again.
We all want safe schools, safe streets, good jobs, free markets and a strong military. Only those determined to divide us are still uselessly trying to invent division, trying to manufacture some "them" category to throw their political opponents. But the reality is we're all Americans and even if a third of us are fucking blind and stupid, we need to lead them to the water regardless of whether they will drink or not. Those refusing to accept the election results who are blindly loyal to a serial adulterer, accused sexual predator and known low IQ sexist ignoramus con-man should be ashamed of themselves, but even if they are so shallow and have no shame left, they should still want what is best for America and that is to rally behind the winner of the 2020 election and wish the new administration well as it tries to confront the numerous challenges of our time. Continuing to sit in some festering wet squalid rotted cesspool of Trump stupidity and ignorantly fantasizing that he didn't just lose 'BIGLY' is beyond stupid, its dangerous to America.
That's important.
Trump lost because of who he was and how he behaved. Nobody voted "for Biden". 75 million Americans voted "against Trump".
TrumpTrueBelievers may be proud of their effort: they got out the vote! They got the second most votes ever...
.... and still got whomped!
Trump's base really must reflect on that.
I voted FOR Biden. In previous elections, I voted for Biden in the primaries too.
Would I have voted for anyone vs Trump? HELL YES. That doesn't mean that I didn't vote FOR Biden.
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I know that I have told you this before but I think it bears repeating.
I could not care less what you think of me Tex. Your opinion of me is of ZERO importance to me.
Neither am I here to convince YOU or anyone else or a fucking thing.
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My friend Bob, and I do 'count' you as a friend, I have to burst this bubble before it rises too high: I did vote for Joe Biden, because I know Joe. Yes, Trump screwed Donald, nevertheless.
You know Joe?!
That is s-o-o-o cool!
I only ever met one candidate, and he kinda lost. George McGovern.
I wonder if they ever met. Two good people.
Yes! I know Joe through his public life persona! I liken Joe to a bag of oats to an old horse. Exhilarating!
But every one of your posts mimic far right wing propaganda sites.
HA!
The best part is that the EC votes mirrored 2016. Trump not only lost the EC votes, but the popular vote also.
Yes. By the same score.
Nobody voted "for Biden". 75 million Americans voted "against Trump".
That is what happened in 2016. Nobody voted for Trump. The voted against HRC. I have had more than one Trumper tell me that. They knew then that Trump would be a disaster but their blind hatred for HRC was more important than electing someone, anyone who could lead this country. If Zippy The Pinhead had been running in 2016, he would have won.
You're probably right... which is pretty amazing.
I've never been a Clinton fan, but the vehemence found on the right is unhinged.
Okay. So we just ignore the 180 million people who did not vote?
You know 80 million votes is less than a quarter of the population of the United States. The argument being made is that one in four people get to decide who is deplorable. And the minority quarter of the population calls that democracy.
If a candidate runs unopposed and gets every vote then they still would not be elected by a majority of the people of the United States.
Of course we ignore the 180 million who didn't vote. They had their chance to add their voice and they didn't. That's their problem if they aren't being represented by who best suits their needs.
Over 100 million people cannot vote for a variety of reasons. If every eligible voter voted that would be about two thirds of the population. A third of the population of the United States does not have a chance to vote.
As it is, one in four people chose who would be President. If every voter voted then one in three would have chosen the President.
Why can't they vote or don't have a chance to vote? Don't throw shit on the wall and not explain why you threw shit on the wall
No.
Widespread authoritarianism is.
I am all for making it easier for eligible citizens to vote, sadly Republicans have been working hard trying to prevent eligible voters from voting. I wish every single eligible voter would cast their vote in every election. I believe that when there are more people who participate the closer we get to a truly more perfect union as our founders intended.
So why don't Republicans support early voting, Sunday voting and mail in ballot voting? All are proven to have virtually no voter fraud, the few rare cases are almost always caught and the punishment is severe which is why the amount of fraud is statistically insignificant. Same with in person voting with basic forms of ID even without a picture. The amount of in person voter fraud is again statistically insignificant. So why not increase access to the vote for all eligible voters? Why are Republicans so determined to purge voter rolls and limit polling locations in poor or minority areas? Why were Republican legislators caught red handed after they requested data on voting patterns by race and, with that data in hand, drafted laws that the court found targeted "African-Americans with almost surgical precision,"?
Those trying to block eligible voters from having a voice are the very definition of Americans who "just suck" as detailed above.
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Because those methods of voting work against them
Well, gotta throw this in - take the Native Americans who have more restrictions on having the ability to vote due to localized prejudice or fear. Example - one polling place 123 miles from the reservation 'cause the "county" just didn't wanna take the trouble to take the ballot boxes where the tribe/nation was.
No, they didn't get a chance to vote.
Authoritarianism needs apathy to survive.
And that needs to be addressed and fixed. Thankfully, the party now taking over the administration cherishes the right to vote and will no doubt support making sure that issue is addressed and a polling place is set up in a far more convenient location.
Up till now, Republicans haven't been keen on helping native Americans get to the polls because native Americans tend to vote Democrat. Only a Democratic administration would be interested in getting more access to native Americans, and while it may be self serving, they may be doing only because they think more native Americans will vote for Democrats, it's still increasing access to the vote regardless of which way a certain group leans politically. But yeah, Republicans would never have tried to make it easier for native Americans to vote since they know the more who vote, the less likely their party is to win. Republicans have a vested interest in keeping native Americans away from the polls, they don't give a fuck about the fact that they're Americans worthy of a voice and a vote.
Yes.
Mobilisation saved democracy in America for another four years, when its survival will again be tested.
Despite what anyone says , there was no 180 million Americans who did not vote, unless you want to count small children.
There are about 230 million Americans who are old enough to vote and appx 150 million voted.
So we take the 1 off the 180 and we have the approximate correct figure of non voters.
I think a lot of it had to do with eliminating polling stations, blatant voter suppression, Trump and the PMG removing mail boxes, and redrawing district lines to favor red candidates,
And your twist of reality continues.
To my knowledge, which in this case isn't a lot, the only times an individual doesn't have the right to vote is: A Dishonorable Discharge from the military, commission of a class 1 felony, or by not being as citizen of the US. So who are these 100 million who can't vote?
The children from age 1 day and all those not 18 yet.
An argument for arguments sake.
I really don't want children voting, do you?
How about fetuses?
After viewing some of the interview tapes of people screwing up basic American history
questions or blaming Barack Obama for "letting 911 happen"
or the pro life guy who refuses to wear a mask for personal reasons...
I almost wish there Jim Crow laws for everyone to prove they are qualified to vote and not just
dumb parrots.
LOL! Sure why not! They're people aren't they?
That is what I have been told.....
When I saw that I wanted to reach thru the screen and throttle that guy
Fetuses are people, too... so why shouldn't they vote?
So I have been told - still don't believe it.
Oh!
An unbeliever!
Where did we put the ducking chair?
in the ducking closet?
Unfortunately, children of all ages vote.
In more ways then one.
There are some adults I don't want voting either.
Sounds like you are advocating for voter suppression.
I guess you only have a problem with it if you aren't the one doing it!
The ones I am referring to are those who know a candidate is wrong for a position but they vote for them anyway because of their party. I should have added that to my comment. For that I apologize to NT for. Now papa oscar.
No, I don't think all Biden voters suck, I just think they were blind to the truth and let the media tell them how to vote.
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There is a huge difference between thinking something and actually knowing it and proving it. Saying that 78 million Biden voters are letting the media tell them how to vote is stretching the bounds of reality.
BTW, are you aware that 72 million Trump voters have drunk so much kool-aide that they have turned orange?
So do you believe in the seed on here that states 70 million Americans suck?
I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment, bugsy. I was quite specific in what I posted and by your comment, you think that Biden voters can't think for themselves and follow what the media tells them. Not only does it stretch the bounds of reality it is pure BS.
Now, that said as long as you believe that Biden voters can't think for themselves what do you expect to believe? That I believe that 70 million Americans suck or that I have a more realistic view of voters?
The fact remains that for 4 years, the left described Trump supporters as a cult. No different than my belief that many leftists made their decision to vote for Biden because the media told then to.
You can't call bs on one but believe the other.
I guess that having a conversation/debate without insults isn't something you're interested in. Oh well, it was worth a shot.
None of your comment has anything to do with what I said or believe.
Where did I say that I believed the other? Nowhere
Please refer to my comments accurately.
Hey!
This is NT! Misquoting is specifically authorized by the CoC.
I'm interested in knowing what it was you thought I posted was an insult, because it was not.
That is what I saw. (Sweeping generalization deleted.)
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[deleted]
Groups are (often) moderated by group mods (designated members of the groups).
save your keystrokes. a group of people here are learning a valuable cause and effect lesson that involves flagging and moderation in another group.
... no offense towards you intended.
none taken
[deleted]
I hope that is not the case. Moderation is supposed to conform to NT rules, but still give some leeway to the owner of the groups and their mods. If there is an abuse of moderation, a group's privileges can easily be removed. Payback is never OK. The appropriate action is to get me or one of the other mods.
[deleted]
Thank you for responding. My intent is to replicate the moderation styles elsewhere in NT with the hope of achieving some consistency in moderation across all groups. All the tickets I have issued here are strictly within the boundaries of the rules, with the exception of some meta comments made by ranking members of NT and this group, such as here. I encourage you to review my decisions and correct any mistake(s) you believe I have made here and to continue to help me improve my moderation skills as we both move forward.
Any further discussion of moderation within this thread and this article by non-principals of NT, this group, or the author of this article, will be considered meta and will be deleted.
oops, dyslexic moment on my part. in simple terms, unless you're a NT mod, NT IT person, group mod here, or the author of this article, any meta comment you make here is getting deleted.
[deleted]
[meta]
Dulay, I voted this up---------------------but-------------
The 70million+ people DO NOT ****. Rather, many of them believed or fell for 'something' that was never defined and in spite of believing/hoping ( the brand ) was for them never understood ( the brand ) never included them.
There is this too. Within this ( brand grouping ) are a smattering of souls lost to a national identity and instead falling for an identity fostered for them by years of meticulous, well produced propaganda by domestic and international mediums whose only desire is to blunt, disadvantage and cripple the prospect of freedom and democracy. For these folk a simple four letter word as a description is far to kind.
IMHO the posit of the seed is that we shouldn't give a fuck WHY they are who they are. They voted for Trump knowing all they needed to know about him. They did it knowing that Trump didn't give a shit that tens of thousands more people will die because of Trump's incompetence and all for their 401Ks or their delusion of being millionaires themselves one day or there deep desire to control women or their idolatry of guns or their xenophobia and/of homophobia.
When the Dems lost the last election they were told that they needed to understand the 'disenfranchised' rural voter who felt left behind.
You will not see the GOP handwringing and wondering how to expand their 'big tent' and get a broader scope of Americans to vote for them. They'll concentrate on gerrymandering and suppressing voting rights.
You are correct. I understand all of that.
But-----"the disenfranchised rural voter who felt left behind" is in that situation because Supply Side Economics concentrated the prosperity and the benefit of that prosperity away from 'them' and into the control of the already wealthy. I suspect it is impossible to ( educate ) the lower economic tiers on that fact though.
Krugman has been writing about "why".
He sees a closed, tightening cycle, with the better training opportunities (all levels) found in urban centers driving both growth and prosperity. Leaving rural areas behind.
This would explain the feeling of abandonment in the rural world, and the envy of "coastal elites".
My nearest neighbor lives over a mile away and we don't socialize.
Excuse me, but I don't understand the pertinence of your Reply.
Their children are Democrats.
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70 million may have voted for Trump's GOP; but 70 million are not US fascists. But so long as grievous social conditions are unaddressed, fascism's ranks will swell. The petty-bourgeoisie can't avoid this forever.
You're the first one in over 200 comments to say anything about them or anyone else being fascists. Why interject it now?
On the other hand, you could explain why Democrat criticism of Trump's refusal to cede centers NOT on his incitement of fascistic violence, and NOT his efforts to establish a personalist dictatorship, BUT on complaints that Trump is undermining 'national security' -- translation: the US' imperial interests. As Trump intensifies his his incitement of violence, Democrats appeal for 'unity' with Trump's enablers in the GOP.
The Democrat Party is desperate to forestall the emergence of mass opposition to Trump which would threaten the interests of US imperialism and Wall Street. That is because the Democrat Party IS a party of Wall Street and the military. Think of it as 'GOP Lite.'
That's pure deflection IMT. I asked you a simple question.
So you want ME to explain YOUR opinion yet refuse to answer a question about your opinion.
WHY?
BTFW, I don't accept the premise of your 'translation'.
That's a pretty simplistic summary for a very complicated position. Only someone who is desperate to ignore that there are a plethora of issues which CAN and SHOULD be addressed with bipartisanship would question calls for unity.
I won't even ask for evidence of that utter load of crap.
YOU think of the Democratic Party any fucking way you want and so will I.
However, I note that as is your MO, you continue to blame the Democrats for all that YOU believe is wrong with this country while giving the GOP a free pass. Why?
Dear Dulay:
My apologies for deflecting your simple question. That a distinctively 'American' form of fascism now rises is only beginning to be recognized. So of course few people address this. The problem I had was finding a way of stating the obvious in a way that wasn't disrespectful. But since you insist ...
So -- you don't admit US imperial interests. Well, when did we ever do so? We had at one point a thousand military bases around the world [of which we knew]. Did anyone ever admitt that this is a projection of imperial power? No one I know. It seems you're in good company. We'll just keep ordering the world in the US ruling class interests, and deny that it's imperialism.
Problem solved.
'...you continue to blame the Democrats for all that YOU believe is wrong with this country while giving the GOP a free pass. Why?'
Maybe it's because I look at economic crisis, high unemployment, financial ruin for millions of families, food insecurity, evictions, loss of medical insurance which is kept under a lid solely by means of state/police terror, I don't see anything right 'with this country.' If you can tell me what is good about this stuff, I'll cede the point gladly. I keep hearing that I dislike my country because I have the effrontery to speak about these conditions.
Seriously, though, you raise an important theoretical point, and one that needs to be addressed.
The Next 9% [represented by the Democratic Party] after the 1% [represented by the Republican Party] can have no policy of its own.The Next 9% is stuck in the role of mediating the rule of the 1% over itself, and especially over the 90%. To do that, the Next 9% must attempt to find a synthesis of 1% and 90% class interests. It can only borrow EITHER from the 1% OR from the 90%.
I don't envy you, Dulay, because the bourgeoisie class and the proletarian classe have naught in common. The petty-bourgeoisie [Next 9%] is tolerated by the 1% only so long as it is useful TO the 1%. But so long as it is useFUL to the 1%, the petty-bourgeoisie is useLESS to the 90%.
I think you've got this deep-seated gnawing feeling that somehow, I am a closeted GOPer. At issue is the Next 9%'s service of the 1%. Marxian doctrine holds that the mutually necessary yet hostile alliance of the 1% plus Next 9% which IS the ruling class in Capitalist countries MUST BE BROKEN.
For decades, the Next 9% has abandoned the 90% to its own destiny. Now the 90% which is the proletarian class is awakening to its class interests. That changes everything. You're going to have to decide whether you will stand by the 1% or the 90%. Why is that? It's because the 90% won't allow you to do otherwise. It will create conditions REQUIRING you to opt BETWEEN the 1% or the 90%. Without the assistance of the Next 9%/Democratic Party, the GOP would collapse; it wouldn't stand one month.
Trump's vicious, 4 year campaign amounts to a threat against the Next 9% to MOVE TO THE RIGHT -- to be increasingly useFUL to the 1%. Biden's seeking 'unity' amounts to a promise to serve 1% interests with increased diligence. By all accounts, it's working.
We're not bothered that you refuse to interpret YOUR experience within the strictures of our conceptual framework. What else would you expect of us re: the 1% and Next 9%?
Have a good one, man.
PS: Edit -- replace 'Democrat' with 'Democratic.' Apologies if I missed any references.
Yet you merely proceed to post blather that is non responsive to my original question.
NO, I don't accept your equating national security with imperialist interests. Try to FOCUS on what was actually said instead of what YOU want to blather about.
Which STILL fails to address the FACT that you blame it all on the Democrats while giving the GOP a pass.
Seriously, IMT, I didn't raise a 'theoretical point'. I asked you a simple question which you continue to avoid answering.
You remind me of a wide receiver who drops the ball because he already has his run in his head before he makes the catch. You seem to have kneejerk replies already scripted and merely use other members comments as avenues to express them while failing to address what you pretend are the basis of your reply.
Since you felt free to characterize what you think I feel, I will take the liberty to set you straight. I think you are a socialist and I really could not care less. My issue with your comments is they are non responsive and pointless soliloquies.
NO IMT, at issue is your lack of any desire to have a discussion.
Neither this seed or this forum are venues for proclamations or oration. As a member, you are expected to stay on topic and interact and participate in discussions in good faith.
If you want to orate, avail yourself of the blog function that NT provides and have at it.
Don't use this seed as your soap box. Answer the fucking question or move on.
Actually, you went to the heart of Marxian social theory. It isn't my doing if you're insufficiently exposed to material dialectics to see into what waters you've waded.
If it's on topic you want, I don't cede that 70 million US citizens just suck. They may be exhausted, confused and politically disoriented; but that [in my book at least] isn't 'sucking.'
Now -- you ask why I pin everything on the Democratic Party? I don't. I've already gone on record -- as has the Socialist Equality Party -- in calling for Trump's immediate removal from office. I have also gone on record charging him with war crimes and crimes against humanity. Let me repeat that: I hereby call for the prosecution of Donald Trump for his war crimes and for his crimes of war against humanity -- including but not limited to -- denying refugees and immigrants entry as required by international law, by refusing all serious measures to protect the US population from the coronavirus pandemic, for attempting to foment insurrection in the South America continent, for the assassination of Major General Qasem Soleimani, etc., etc.
Have you censored Trump and his Republican Party henchmen for their crimes of war?
All the best!
PS: I hope that 'national security' doesn't become the Democratic Party mantra. It sounds so ... GOPish...
Ya, I got that from your first post. You STILL haven't explained WHY you interjected fascism into the conversation when it wasn't an element in the posit of the seed or ANY of the prior discussions.
No more that you or the Socialist Equality Party have IMT. We all must live with our limitations...
At the least, they are fascist fellow-travelers.
I can't agree.
US fascism is not yet a mass movement; but the potential is certainly there.This month's election was mocked by economic crisis recalling the Great Depression, mocked by high unemployment, mocked by financial ruin for millions of families, mocked by increasing food insecurity, mocked by evictions, mocked by loss of medical insurance. Beside economic crisis, this election was hosted under and mocked by pandemic state/police violence which continues unabated since George Floyd's murder. Police have nearly 900 killings in '20. [Mapping Police Violence; https://mappingpoliceviolen... ].
Concurrently, Congress is very generous to Wall St. and US billionaires. The FED pumped trillions of taxpayer-backed funds to Wall St. for share buybacks, and to purchase toxic corporate debt and mortgage-backed securities [now $120 billion/month; $1.5 trillion annually [Wall Street on Parade; wallstreetonparade.com ]. US billionaires increased their net worth some $500 billion since April [How billionaires saw their net worth increase by half a trillion dollars during the pandemic by Hiatt Woods Oct 30, 2020; ].
What will MAKE US fascism a mass movement is the absence of any voice or space for working class social grievances or material interests. The reason is that the Democrat Party is utterly incapable of mounting any serious challenge to Trump's dictatorial tendency. Like their GOP colleagues, the Democrat Party is petrified of a mass movement demanding social justice and opposing fascism. Both the Republican and Democrat sections of the ruling class are very well aware that financial markets and profits depend on the Pentagon and its ongoing wars, and this in turn depends on looting public moneys to extend the US Empire. This is why the Democrat Pentagon/Wall Street Party refuses to take seriously Trump's threats of a coup d'etat.
But whatever face the Democrat Party may present to the public, a post-election coup is receiving serious discussion within the ruling class. This is seen in the early morning November 6 meeting of major US corporate CEOs where this was discussed. Yale historian and author of On Tyranny , Timothy Snyder, opened with a solemn warning of a possibility ‘coup d’état’ tied to Trump's refusal to cede defeat in the November election.
It is true that 70 million did vote for Trump in an election he ought to have lost by 50 points. That alone is an astonishing exposure of Democrat Party fecklessness and ongoing ineffectiveness. In 4 short years, Trump was able and allowed to mainstream and normalize US fascism, and to mobilize a fascistic base of right-wing/religious militia groups, police and members of the military. He also has support from Schwarzman and other members of the ruling klepto-kakistocracy. And that's the rub. Hitler's Beer hall putsch may have been laughable, but when the Weimar Democracy proved helpless in 1929, the army chiefs conferred with Adolf, the little absurdity, the Austrian house painter. So did Germany's corporations and Big Money .
The COVID-19 pandemic is relevant here because as infection levels explode, the working class can only demand nationwide a shut-down of all non-essential businesses, with provisions for the sustenance of the working class . Neither section of the ruling class can agree to this. Yet neither party can offer even a solitary solution to any of the crises before us. One appeals to fascists; another can only repress opposition to fascism. Political incompetence, indifference and alienation of the ruling class is laying the basis for a social explosion with potential for general insurrection. Under these conditions, fascism may well be embraced in desperation.
Trump's coup d'etat may yet fail. His MAGA hat-thug rabble is not ready to die for him; nor are prosperity gospel christagelical evanjihadists. But if the Pentagon chiefs and industry heads decide -- as they did in Germany in the 30s -- that the 'führur' is the better bet for promoting their financial interests, they will support fascism, and as in '33, social democrats will offer no meaningful resistance.
I make it a rule not to dialog with anyone who uses "Democrat Party" rather than "Democratic Party".
Unfortunately that rules out a lot of people. It is inexplicable as to why they cant spell or pronounce a simple name correctly.
A lot of this comes from Rush Limbaugh. He purposely and repeatedly used the phrase 'Democrat party'. More petty partisan crap.
I am not suggesting this is why IMT uses the term; I doubt he takes any lead from Rush Limbaugh.
See TiG's explanation.
Whatever the reason... it's wrong. Intentionally wrong. Disrespectful.
Disrespect is a bad way to start a conversation.
Noted. Thanks. It matters that we refer to others by the nomenclature they prefer.
Taken under advisement, and corrected where the 'update' option was available. Thanks guys!
No. It's not a question of "preference". "Democratic Party" is the correct name of a proper noun.
How would you like it if a foreigner tried to impose the use of "Amerika" in a conversation?
Very good! Thanks for schooling me. Take care.
Given the the title of the article, that's a little ironic.
I don't enjoy "schooling" anyone. You're a knowledgeable person. I don't believe for a moment that you didn't understand what you were doing.
Weak sauce Tex.
What is clear to me if that you really want this union to change out capitalism. I don't see it happening. But you are welcome to discuss these matters, perhaps we can benefit from portions of it. Another set of elements to the hybrid system we operate under today. (Smile.)
One cautious warning tho. There is a certain twinkle in your writings when you suggest this country will "bottom out" in some new civil war. There are too many guns in this country - nobody would fair well in the aftermath. Please be careful with the fire and gasoline you're waving around.
We ought to want a peaceful transition of power now and beyond.
I appreciate your civility and intellectual honesty IMT. Most people, in these circumstances, would engage in deflection or some other tactic rather than attempt to work with others.
Bob:
We see the magic pixels move the cursor across the magical screen. It's easy to forget that behind that other screen is a living human being. I've learned in life to minimize assumptions because I've been incorrect so often. There is much that I don't know. I am a naturalized citizen. You [i.e. people in general, myself in particular] pick up habits across the years and do stuff without thinking. You're welcome to believe about me what you will. I've no problem with that. But on the day it's your turn to acknowledge a blunder or an offense, I recommend acknowledging it, accepting correction as graciously as you can, and move forward. We all have things for which we would wish to be forgiven. That means offering it as freely as we would wish to receive it.
I just read my reply to Dulay at 15.1.5 and thought to myself, 'that has a snotty air to it ... why did you do that!' So there ... I said it.
Take care!
As I've said before, CB, you are an intelligent man and routinely display nuanced thinking.
There are far too many guns, and many of them are held by people with political tendencies I do not endorse at all! The very proliferation of weaponry requires discussion. As much as we are able, we should be shaping that discussion with warm hearts and cool heads -- rather than the reverse which is so often the case.
I concur entirely that peaceful transition is needed more now than ever.
That said, it is imperative to recognize that Capitalism can resolve NO issues such as I name in 15.2.1. And that inability to resolve any pressing, social issues is what draws more and more people into fascism. People adopt fascism out of pure desperation. Hitler ran on the slogan, 'Germany's last hope,' words which express how many feel in our time and place.
Approached another way, we can say that the rise of a distinctively US form of fascism [in the United States, no less!] is an harrowing exposure of the profoundly dysfunctional system in which people have no faith whatsoever. Ask yourself, CB -- were the US NOT constituted a nation already, what prospects would you hold for forming that union today?
Unless I am very wrong, we are in far, far more trouble than anyone is acknowledging. Our emerging US fascist movement is a solemn warning that we simply cannot go on doing what we've been doing. Why? It's because doing what we've been doing is what brought us to where we are. This isn't working. Even if we do manage a reasonably stable 'transition' this time, it is certain that an out of office Trump will work behind the scenes to create the fascist movement he has sought to nurture in office.
Events will speed up; they do in times of extreme crisis. 2024 may well proffer a ticket with a would-be führur who is everything Trump is not -- clear-eyed, brilliant, polished and very shrewd. Trump may have brought us to the brink; but without a massive shift on on multiple fronts, I entertain no possibility of the US surviving the next presidential election.
This isn't a matter of my waving around Molotov cocktails. I'm not the one holding the incendiaries; I'm pointing you to the direction from which they will be thrown and I'm telling you -- it CANNOT, it simply CANNOT be 'business as usual.' Doing what we've always done will always give us what we've got. That will be disastrous. That we are having this conversation at all should alarm you.
Take care and keep safe. We need level-headed people around.
Thank-you, TᵢG. This is encouraging. Take care!
extremely accurate!
I appreciate your profound recognition of my thought processes! For you are correct. I strive to look deeper into the matters I comment on routinely. To the discussion that we're having. We are having success in checking fascism- 'merican style. Yes, there is a problem with our systems; we are being flooded with too many voices (and organizations) dedicated to propping themselves up as viable systems to our present form of capitalism. Another problem is capitalism has not failed in this country - so far. Indeed, we are as a nation, preeminently wealth and prosperous cause of capitalism. Political rhetoric aside.
Remember our nation is in the throbs of a grand 'experiment.' We're that "melting pot" of the world. We're at once everybody on the planet existing and stiltedly walking forward over the centuries. We're at once all ideas, all cultures, and all world systems on display.
(I am going to speed 'up' at this point.)
This question probably is moot. As our nation with its constitution is the preeminent model used by many other republics. Thus, the world needed a country like this! (If we did not exist as a nation today - nature would act accordingly to establish yet some other "melting pot"!)
Trump has failed. Some conservatives have played around loosely with the facts of reality and reality won out. And irresistible virus and its real world determinants (outcomes) has defeated 'the grand showman of the United States' by exposure of his weaknesses. Donald Trump never learned to fight what does not physically push back on. People have died. He is politically done. He is fodder. He is political dung.
Our nation is in political danger, nevertheless. As has ever been the case, our people will prevail because our way of life as a united people is fundamentally strong. Already, the 'cords that bind' us are repairing themselves in the calm voice of a seasoned politician come to town with a difference in a novel VP.
Acknowledging an error is not a problem. I hardly pretend to omniscience.
The grace with which I do that will probably be proportionate to the grace with which the error is announced.
I hope you realize that I gave you a compliment in saying that you are too well informed to not know the correct names of America's principal parties. That compliment was delivered backhand, since it meant that your usage was intended.
A question that we old-timers must ask when a new member joins NT: Straight-shooter or word-weasel?
Oh, come on, Bob. What are the names of the three major political parties in Canada? (without googleing them)
Firstly... I'm not Canadian.
Secondly, Liberal, Conservative, and Lib Dem.
Oops.
After Googling... New Dem
Now take note that it's the New Democratic Party, not the New Democrat Party. It is possible for some of us to become confused about things like that, eh?
Do you get confused? I know that Canadian parties change their names from time to time, or new parties appear... so it would be understandable for a person - even a Canadian - to get one wrong.
The New Democratic Party was created in 1961.
America's two primary parties are the same, with names unchanged, for over a century and a half.
The NDP is Canada's socialist party, as was the CCF. It presently is in a coalition with the Liberal Party governing Canada. It was because of the CCF that Canada has universal single-payer healthcare.
... and you, as a reasonably well informed Canadian, know that.
Just as any reasonably well informed American would know.....
'We are having success in checking fascism- 'merican style.'
We’ll have occasion to recognize this mistake soon enough…
'We are being flooded with too many voices…'
I say let them speak … the ‘truth will “out.”’
'Another problem is capitalism has not failed in this country - so far. Indeed, we are as a nation, preeminently wealth and prosperous cause of capitalism...'
For me, ‘as a nation’ is misleading. As Marx saw, an accumulation of great wealth on one end of the spectrum indicates an accumulation of great misery at the other. We are a preeminently wealthy and prosperous in a nation where a handful of citizens control more wealth than the bottom of 50%. Preeminently wealthy and prosperous ‘as a nation’ says naught of social conditions and class relations under Capital. This leads to simplistic and incorrect assumptions that ‘all is well.’
In reality, the world capitalist system is trapped in its greatest crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s. Capitalist apologists said for decades that US-style “free enterprise” is history’s most perfect economic form even as they ignored many signs of approaching crisis – reckless financial speculation, irresponsible self-enrichment of the ruling class, etc.
When 2008 brought disaster, the US regime infused hundreds of billions into the market in a desperate attempt to save the banking system from collapse. The US president acknowledged publicly that the survival of the capitalist system was at stake.
While the emergency bailout did protect the wealth of rich investors; it failed to contain the crisis or to resolve ANY of Capitalism’s inherent and insoluble contradictions. The financial turmoil that began September 2008 continues to metastasize into a global economic chaos/breakdown. The toiling class never did ‘recover.’ Here and abroad, Capital demands ever more ‘austerity’ and bailout money. As Emeritus historian Crane Brinton wrote, while for a time historical tendencies can be interrupted, they will play out and reach their logical conclusion.
As I see it, what is called ‘politics’ are the varied campaigns [slogans, party lines, etc.] and measures [trade and currency wars, actual conflict and wars, class repression, etc.] which attempt to mask and forestall Capital’s inevitable collapse.
Civically speaking, little else happens.
‘Already, the 'cords that bind' us are repairing themselves in the calm voice of a seasoned politician come to town with a difference in a novel VP.’
I think this fails completely to grasp the nature of the nature, historical and class basis of the crises before us. And incorrect diagnosis will lead only to failed prescriptions. You cannot stop the march of events toward the collapse integrally and inherently contained in the reign of Capital. Brinton was correct. These forces will play out materially in time and space.
Take care!
The compliment was recognized; I thank you for it, and hope to show myself a 'straight-shooter.'
Take care and keep safe!
Welcome to NewsTalkers.
I can agree with you; all is not well with our society. But, there is this question:
Is Capitalism the problem in 'merica or is there a problem with 'merican hearts and minds?\
Our nation was constitutionally founded under an agreement that its citizens can be individually rugged and fortunate. It's a democratic-republic. Yes, schemes are involved and allowed. "Caveat Emptor" (slick trading) applies.
However, our people do fight internally for distinct independencies, plural, while fighting under the constitution not to allow capitalistic practices to make a complete mockery of democracy. Thus, over collective centuries this people continuously repeal cultural and/or business practices; discipline whole industries in an effort to turn them away from abominable principles of capitalism (i.e., raw and destructive capitalism), and help the 'up and coming' who being poor, unskilled, and "on the margins" are at the mercy of any one (or several) employer!
Capitalism is inherently anti-democratic. The Owner is an absolute monarch. Employees are kleenex, to be used and thrown away.
At the same time, capitalism can be (is not necessarily) an effective engine for creating wealth.
The question is, "Can the very considerable negative aspects of capitalism be adequately controlled, while retaining the system's dynamism?".
Think about it MUVA. As owner, you are in control over your company. You make the rules and your employees follow them or you fire them. At least I would expect that is how you run your company given your posts. Thus your company is not run democratically. You are the king.
MUVA you focused entirely on one word ... an analogy. Your entire argument is that you are not a king. Well, yes, it was an analogy. The idea is that as owner, you make the rules and your employees follow. It is not a democracy.
So why did you focus on finding a difference in an analogy (the easiest thing to do) while ignoring the actual point that was made?:
Are you able to focus on the actual point
and make a thoughtful comment? Do you run your company democratically or not?
I see all the (visible) points on this thread for what is meant to come across! Thank you (all) for participation and sharing!
As I figured, you make the rules and your employees follow them. And if an employee refuses to follow your rules then you will fire the employee.
Correct?
Thus you do not run your business democratically.
What is the problem with you admitting this simple fact?