'America Is Back': World Leaders Are Telling Biden They're Thrilled To See Trump Go
By: Sean Colarossi (POLITICUSUSA)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
World leaders are already lining up to work with Joe Biden now that Donald Trump is headed for the exit, the president-elect said in a new interview with NBC's Lester Holt.
"America is back," Biden said. "I have spoken with over 20 world leaders and they all are literally pleased and somewhat excited America is going to reassert its role in the world and be a coalition builder."
The incoming president said that the days of America being "alone" will be over when he takes the reins in January.
Video:
Biden says leaders from all around the globe are excited to work with America again now that Trump is leaving the White House. pic.twitter.com/Wnk87Fx4T2
— PoliticusUSA (@politicususa) November 25, 2020
Biden said:
America is back. We're at the head of the table once again. I have spoken with over 20 world leaders and they all are literally pleased and somewhat excited America is going to reassert its role in the world and be a coalition builder. … This is not a third Obama term, because we face a totally different world than we faced in the Obama-Biden administration. President Trump changed the landscape. It's become America first, but it's been America alone.
Biden is filling his administration with competent adults
In a pretty stunning contrast to the current administration, Biden is filling his incoming team with competent adults that actually have expertise in the departments they will run.
As PoliticusUSA's Jason Easley noted earlier this week amid a flurry of new Biden hires, "The adults are back in charge, and the American people are about to be reminded of what it's like to have a competent government working for them."
For four years, America has isolated its traditional allies while embracing thugs and dictators like North Korea's Kim Jong Un and Russia's Vladimir Putin.
With Biden taking over as commander in chief, those days are coming to an end - and American allies couldn't be happier.
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Sean Colarossi
Sean Colarossi currently resides in Cleveland, Ohio. He earned his Bachelor of Arts degree in Journalism from the University of Massachusetts Amherst and was an organizing fellow for both of President Obama's presidential campaigns. He also worked with Planned Parenthood as an Affordable Care Act Outreach Organizer in 2014, helping northeast Ohio residents obtain health insurance coverage.
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The adults are in charge again.
have you seen any incompetent campaign mega donors land a cushy high profile position yet? yeah, me neither.
Has there been any word as to who will replace those two pos's Barr and DeJoy? Also DeJoy should be made to replace the sorting machines he destroyed out of his own pocket.
A rumor that Sally Yates is in the running for AG.
How sweet that would be.
It would be awesome.
Or Biden could fulfill my fantasy and immediately assign Sally Yates as 'Special Prosecutor' and give her an open mandate to follow the money. Judging from her Congressional testimony, she would be more than willing...
asz the A Dolt in the White House needs his diaper again, a changed
Said world leaders better be careful what they wish for as far as Biden is concerned.
speculation of future trends/events by a specific faction of the right wing rings a bit hollow presently ...
And the left does not? Yeah right!
Right, our allies are thrilled that that their tail will be wagging the US dog again.
Think our NATO allies will keep up their military spending commitments with Biden in charge? Try again- we are back to the weak kneed approach of previous Establishment administrations.
Wonder how long it will take Biden to go to war in Syria to appease our "allies". From the sounds of his campaign comments- not long at all.
New trade deals with NATO countries- please, Biden will be on the "Sorry tour" part 2.
As for China- Biden will be making them rich again. No fair trade deal, and no holding them accountable for allowing Covid 19 to become a pandemic (No TDS suffers that isn't Trump's fault). I am sure China will be thrilled to see big money from the US Green New Deal. It is not like we have the resources to make any of the solar panels or wind turbines here. Obama already proved that not even US tax payer money can save government startup companies in those areas.
Iran will have US trade, and nuclear weapons- what a deal that will be for them! I am sure Biden will be one of the shocked when Iran holds a military parade showing off missiles with nuclear tipped war heads. Our allies in the middle east will be as well; touching off a new nuclear arms race.
The good times will be rolling for everyone; except the US.
Time for some Trump supporters to realize that Donald Trump is on a "Bitter tour Infinity" of his own. Also, it is now clearer to view than ever that Donald Trump is crazily having a nervous breakdown in front of the whole world.
Time for some opinionate people on the left to step off.
Some of us weren't voting for Trump; we were voting against the 5 years of bullshit the left, media, and Democrats put us through. Personally, I can't stand Trump- but I voted straight Republican ticket for the first time ever because the Democrats are unfit to lead at any level.
But keep projecting the Trump bullshit- it will only drive a deeper wedge between us.
Please. I don't worry myself about why you voted for Trump. Donald Trump does not care why you voted for him either. As for wedges, well they're your to use as you see fit.
As the one person on this forum who can genuinely be designated 'left,' I suggest that the 'left' concluded years ago that the fascistic right was through dealing with anyone other than themselves. As I see it, the hard right has no intention of building community or nation with those outside its narrative embrace. And those who are 'left?' As I see it, we really have no alternative but to accept your decision.
The 'previous' Administration had already signed an agreement in 2014 for spending commitments. Try again.
Trump made ZERO trade deals with NATO countries so Biden could hardly do worse.
Trump JUST signed a trade deal with China. Unless you think it sucks, why would Biden need to make another one. (No TDS suffers that isn't Trump's fault).
Your Covid claim is juvenile.
Actually, we DO have the resources to build both solar panels AND wind turbines here since we already DO.
They were keeping up their commitment before Trump, and remember, they do not pay NATO, it is spending on their own military. They were committed to increasing their spending by so much each year.
Trump keeps criticizing NATO allies over spending. Here's how NATO's budget actually works.
How long did it take Trump to "go into" ( not physically ) Iran policies to appease Israel?
They're not rich now? China has won the war of tariffs.
We have one now?????
Because Trump backed out of the only thing preventing them from having it for at least a decade.
Like North Korea? Thanks Trump!
I think most have been pretty diplomatic and careful in their messages, I would have loved to have known what they really said in the confines of their inner sanctoms.
Where have I heard this before................ hmmmmmm oh yeah. Mattis
Is Mattis on his short list and therefore being quoted? Shades of his run for POTUS in '87/'88?
Other countries should be happy, Biden will tax us and give stuff to other countries (my opinion)
yeah, some people that don't even come close to being affected usually go with that BS meme. IMO
Everyone really needs to pay attention to which countries are excited that Joe Biden is reviving a nostalgic version of American leadership. The European Union is crumbling and NATO is no longer relevant. If those countries have embraced a failed technocratic neo-liberal governing philosophy then the United States can only lead them into obscurity.
Funny you list mostly Democratic countries as in decline. Yearning for a harder hand, aka dictatorship?
they've lost their autocracy, boo hoo hoo
Funny that Joe Biden's insistence on following the authoritarian dictates of administrators is considered democratic government.
Technocrats are authoritarians who do not create and implement policies based on democratic consensus or legislative compromise. Joe Biden is assembling an autocratic government that distrusts democracy.
What the hell are you talking about? Biden will be using the same government in place that donald has been using.
So you do not see all the people donald has in positions in the same light as the people Biden would have in place?
You are using techno babble trying to come to some unjustifiable point.
Is that what that is? I have a hard time understanding Nerm's word salads
The only thing I could get out of it is how dare a bureaucrat have an opinion.
I guess donald has programmed them to think one must be loyal to dear leader. Any dissent is frowned upon....
You could at least explain your "Brave New World" idioms like "technocrat"
My guess would be anyone Biden puts in a cabinet position or in charge of a department.
Anyone donald had in these positions good, anyone Biden would have in these positions bad....
Funny though, he is describing donald to a T.
I'll bet that there won't be the revolving door hitting on the ass the highly experienced and competent cabinet members and other officials that Biden is putting in place, as compared to anyone who didn't kiss Trump's ass in HIS cabinet and other appointments.
A technocracy consists of elite technical experts governing society through autocratic means. A technocracy functions in much the same manner as a bourgeois aristocracy where divine right to unilaterally govern has been replaced by credentials and measures of competence; a meritocracy rather than an aristocracy. Technocrats are elite technical experts who claim right to govern based upon measures of merit often defined by technocrats. Technocrats claim the public is too ignorant to make rational choices because of the complexity and specialized knowledge necessary to make those rational choices. Technocrats distrust democracy.
An example would be the Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA performs a judiciary function by interpreting law and unilaterally judging the Constitutionality of those interpretations. The EPA performs a legislative function by creating regulations based upon the agency's interpretation of law. The EPA performs an executive function by enforcing the regulations that the EPA has created. No official of the EPA has been elected in a democratic manner. While appointment of EPA officials provides tenuous oversight by political government, the EPA claims to be a politically independent agency that governs based upon merit.
The EPA is not the only Federal, state, or local agency that governs in this manner.
i usually just toss em to the side for some others to digest
Nobody is talking about "education worship" here or in the Biden Administration, Nerm_L. That is a narrative some conservatives are weaving as a pejorative. (We see you upfront!)
If by this you mean that Biden has intentions to use the best and brightest with high standards then yes! If you mean Biden intends to NOT run the government of a great people on one man's emotional state of being, then I agree!
If you mean that congress should sit on its republican 'hands,' being destructive and putting on a display of the politics of government disruption for no proper or good benefit, then I pray it backfires on republicans in 2022 elections.
Technocratic government displaces democracy. No matter how that is twisted and spun, administrative government has become more autocratic and less democratic.
Let's back up: What label do you give the Trump Administration?
Four legs good, two legs bad
It's unfortunate how some conservatives formulate their talking points. How about our elite fighting forces of the United States? Are these groupings "technocrats"? Is the general public (private sector) sufficiently capable of the mundane task of continuous and unbroken governance?
Guess what, Nerm, the EPA was legislated into existence, it did not just magically appear one day when the King wasn't looking. The fact of it's legislative origins means that it is not, despite your protestations, autocratic. Every rule and regulation is subject to scrutiny by the executive, congressional and judicial branches.
In other words, you are just making shit up.
Which does not change the fact that the EPA performs the functions of the three branches of government in an autocratic manner. EPA is not a democratic institution.
Really?
It is true that the EPA does not operate democratically. As a government agency, it does not put its decisions up for a vote via referendum. It makes decisions on behalf of the people (like every other government agency) in accordance with its statutes. It is also true that internally, the EPA does not operate democratically. Its decisions are not put to a vote by the employees of the EPA but rather are made by executives (with more minor decisions made by lower managers) in accordance with its statutes.
Just like every other government agency.
But, as Thomas explained, these government agencies are all subject to the control / oversight of the three branches of government. The legislative branch has existential and regulatory (e.g. statutes) control. The executive branch has executive (e.g. cabinet status) control. The judicial branch has legal control.
The three branches of government are the constitutional representatives for the people. They implement the representative democracy of our federated Republic. Ours is a system based on indirect (representative) democracy.
So, in short, here is how our system works:
People ⇢ [ Representatives (congressional, senate, [ PotUS ⇢ Cabinet ] ) ⇢ SCotUS ] ⇢ Government Agencies
This is indirect (representative) democracy. The power lies with the people (we are a Republic) who democratically vote for those who (ostensibly) will represent them. And these representatives, in turn, control our government. And that includes the EPA.
Seems that way.
What a load of crap. It's laughable to claim that EPA regulations can not and have not been litigated. The Judiciary regularly rules on the Constitutionality of EPA regulations. Sheesh...
If Congress wasn't so fucking lazy, incompetent and cowardly, they would legislate specific regulations rather than bumping it on Agency heads by stating 'the Secretary shall' in the bills they write.
Laws enacted by Congress have been litigated. And the Judiciary regularly rules on the Constitutionality of laws enacted by Congress.
You are only pointing out that the EPA performs the same governing functions as Congress.
The only thing your comment suggests is that technocratic administrative government has become a fourth branch of government. The legislative, executive, and judiciary branches of government have abrogated their Constitutional responsibilities by creating a fourth branch of government that governs on their behalf.
AGAIN, the Judiciary regularly rules on EPA and other Agency regulations.
NO, I pointed out that the Congress legislates that the head of the EPA and other Agencies devise regulations to meet Congressional mandates. It would behoove you to recognize that reality.
Don't try to put YOUR words in my mouth Nerm.
Congress has been delegating the responsibility for meeting their legislative mandates from day one. They did it in the First session of Congress, which included many of the founders. Why try to pretend that is something new and unusual.
It does not. I work closely with the EPA and for the most part, states have primacy to regulate as they see fit.
Omg! Competent people! Can't have that now can we.
I heard rumblings that the assholes in the senate are already saying they are going to deny Biden any confirmations.
After all of the incompetent people donald put in charge with their blessing, they are going to turn into nothing but obstructionists again. Already saying they won't let him get any judicial picks ala the Obama years of do noting and let nothing happen.
Worthless pieces of shit.
no worries, the loser already blazed a trail of ruling by EO, ignoring congress, and placing "acting" people in charge. probably nobody will complain about those types of executive gov't solutions now.
I am willing to bet that all the sudden EOs will be bad again and all the sudden 'acting' roles will be frowned upon.
Hypocrites....
Of course they will! I understand one of the first of trmp's EOs to go will be the reverse on DACA. Biden wants to implement a path to citizenship
EASY-PEASY. Help Georgia senate campaigns get rid of the other Trumphole: Mitch McConnell as majority leader in the Senate. McConnell is not good for a democracy like us. McConnell is trash. And everybody in Georgia needs to see Mitch McConnell and his Trumphole 'troupe' of senators for what they are: new obstructionists.
Starting the day after Thanksgiving let us all work to get Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock elected to the Senate of the United States. Why should we start off in a hole?!!!
And I hope that Biden can get this done! BTW, we all need to be more civic minded in terms of writing our leaders with our feedback, even on the mundane matters. Because congresspeople and presidents do listen to the voices that share with them, in my experience! Let them know what is in our hearts and minds. They listen.
Also, this new administration will be pelted with a steady stream of negativism from the "do-nothing" caucuses of our fine country. The Biden Administration will need to hear from positive voices on a constant two-four years near daily, weekly, monthly set of intervals with high-quality inputs!
Not in politics anyway >sarc<
What's that say about some of the voters who put Donald in charge to begin with?
I guess you answered the question.
Ignorant worthless P's OS
Nothing new to see here folks. A Biden presidency will amount to a warmed over amalgam of failed Clinton and Obama policies and ideas. A Harris presidency is too scary to think about
failed? Who pulled us out of that 2008 recession?
You're scared of Harris because she's a woman and a tough one at that
Funny that the only thing they can complain about was 'it was too slow'...
Maybe if the republicans in congress didn't block everything Obama wanted to do and didn't obstruct his administration at every turn, it could have been quicker.
I think the slower an economy recovers, the stronger it is. I could be wrong. The recovery continued and lasted until March when the pandemic hit
Sounds reasonable. A strong foundation for it to grow.
"Maybe if the republicans in congress didn't block everything Obama wanted to do and didn't obstruct his administration at every turn, it could have been quicker."
If you took out the dates the Trump supporters would be hard pressed to pinpoint where the Trump Presidency began.
Thank-you
She's totally unqualified and unfit to be president
The American voters decided you are wrong!
This coming from someone who thinks orange conman is/was fit to be president. He is the WORST president this country has EVER had
Based on what exactly?
birthers, thumpers, teabags, Qanon dipshits, ... terrifying that almost 20% of americans are so willfully ignorant and/or just plain fucking stupid.
Some PotUS' get lucky and preside over a growing economy while others get unlucky (or actually inflict harm) and preside over a shrinking economy.
Either way, the PotUS gets credit or blame for the economy even though they have almost no means to make a good economy and limited means to make a bad one. For decades I have observed partisans fight over which administration is responsible for good and bad economies when the answer, in most cases, is neither. Luck of the draw.
Trump is now known to be at the end of his term. The market is doing fine (and it is an early indicators of the future) and the economic projections for at least the next 6 months are strong; even in spite of COVID-19. People should pay attention to this. Unfortunately, COVID-19 effects are coming so I hope the vaccine is effective and we can continue our economic momentum.
I know one of our irrational members claimed that he would dump his stocks if Biden were to win the election under the assumption that without Trump our economic factors would fall into ruin. Dump away.
Because she's a democrat? A woman? A woman of color? Take your pick
You know what opinions are worth don't you, Gregg.
Have some turkey stuffing and calm down.
All of the above?
The fact that his acolytes constantly rely on this obvious falsehood (Obama and the Democrats could have passed literally anything they wanted without a way for Republicans to stop them during the period they maintained a filibuster proof majority) demonstrates what a failure Obama was. They know it and refuse to admit it, hence they make up excuses that don't withstand the slightest scrutiny.
T
Correct.
I called him on it. he didn't due to the technicality that the election outcome is still in question. that is a textbook example of the defective mental state of TDS.
Arrogantly stubborn ignorance is not a good look.
It's just self delusion.
The filibuster proof majority was actually only for a short period of time.
American voters decided you were wrong in 2016, but yet, we have heard over and over, Trump is illegitimate, and by our biggest Trump hater on her, Trump is unfit.
It will be proven that Biden is far more unfit to be president.
IMPOSSIBLE after 4 years of TRUMPP
WAS YOUR CLOWN, now the tide is turned sweeping you and yours, out to see what you can't, cause trumps' under tones were like an undertow, drawing you out to not sea how exposed so many have bin, stored under the cabinet Trump did assemble with dat ability that dissed US All. Asz Disability to Divide was what Trump done did multiply and pry US Apart, cause apart from division were Bannons' and so many of his appointees' visi00ns and intended consequence via their decisions that through there incisions , cloth was cut, into ribbons, but from a fabric that was once our AMERICAN FLAG, desecrated to tear apart what tearfully required so much and so many, to sacrifice, just so as Trump could add another vice to dice up our country tis of thee, yet, so many still can't sea the depths that which Trump has drugged US to anchor, his bottom Fed thoughts for the thoughtless ofs', that sometimes outnumber the thoughts of those who think, and B fore i head out for another Drink , this in. You and yours' , as in all Trump Defenders and supporters, in my oh so humble opine, will be remembered for being some of the least intelligent and gullible followers of an Uncultured Pro Anti American , lead by an Anchor, and Anchor men and women's never "just",
asz just for optics,
just for Chaotic s, as Trump was
and is for, The Psychotic of
all the Probiotics that have shown US to be an uncultured growth that never stunted, so just grin and grunt IT
Brilliant! I was going to miss it. I am glad I clicked in!
That is an unqualified statement. An ad-homimen attack on the Vice-President Elect.
Color the democrats at the time, 'foolish' for trying to manage a "cooperative" styled government and not catching on in time that the sentiment was not mutually shared by republicans and conservatives who were then and are now heavily focused on listening to right-wing radio commenters (24/7).
And the democrats considered their position, and tried being "gracious" to the minority; which did not reciprocate in any meaningful manner.
None of the 'party of Trump' saw or understood the resentment the world had for the last four years of strong-arm tactics. For one thing, western styled nations not only do not wage war against each other (the thinking goes), but they were learning individual nation-lessons in trust across borders. And along comes a 'war-less' champion of the right with a set of gargantuan steel-toed boots shoving down and kicking the western way of looking at the world and life squarely and perpetually in the teeth!
while some wear dentures
most are not our indentured
servants of servitude,
and our countries "ignorance" we, nor any, can elude after watching Trumpp play Family Feud with the formerly "United" States won that was a loss, for all the world to accept, and yes, we asz a whole country, have
to, cause it has become this countries unfortunately reality. Our country, has been the example many would point to for much and many exemplifications of exceptionalism, and unfcknfortunately, we must also accept our over achievement, at ignorance ruling, our once so exceptionally bright beacon of Freedom and excellence, wear asz now, we are dim lit wit less more ons off ten than knot tied to the exceptionalism we once wore with or with out warring , and Capitalism has shown brightest, that it also illuminates the darkest in men
Real.
Funny....but Mr Giggles was just saying the other day how refreshing it is to listen to Biden discuss things...and Mr G was a trmp supporter. Mr G knows that the toddler in the WH is about to lain down for a nap and the adults are taking over the Oval Office again
Okay, I'll bite: Why Greg, pray tell?
he'll tell you she will prey on US
How so?
because she is not an old white guy,
and old white people can't handle such a "person" in "their" White Power House, imho
Oh! I see now!
He has spoken with over 20 world leaders about what he will be doing as president?
What about the Logan Act?! It's a violation! Prosecute! Prosecute!
/s
Remember when Trump drained the swamp? Yeah, me neither. Trump removed the drain and turned it into a gold plated hot tub for himself and his fellow swamp creatures. Now he’s in a mad rush to force in important last minute legislation, like pardoning traitors and bringing back firing squad executions. Seriously, how does anyone still support this lowlife?
They other leaders are happy because the know Biden will make America mediocre again.
Improvement is good
Personally I don't think being mediocre is good enough. I sorry that you do. What Biden will do to the country is not improvement. That is what Trump was doing, improving America to be great and number one in the world. Too bad you could not see that.
I don't think that the president was doing much other than playing king for 4 years and now he is bawling because somebody else got his sandbox..
He certainly wasn't draining the swamp, he was just building a bigger, filthier swimming hole that only the rich could use... at the expense of the bulk of the population. He was and is riding roughshod over agencies put in place to protect our environment and our persons, our health and safety, our human rights, putting people in agencies who were against the very purposes that the agencies were created to address, by not backing up and supporting the states as a president should.
He is a grifter and a cheat, a liar's liar and believes solely and completely in one thing, himself. Because of the last, I do not believe that he cares one iota for the country, inasmuch as he cared for the dias from which to spew forth and decree as he sees fit. He has reduced the countries stature and standing internationally as well as torn the fabric of decency and decorum at home and abroad.
Biden, even if he does not achieve his legislative agenda, accomplishes little or nothing, at least has a soul instead of a dark and malicious craving for power in it's place. He has already accomplished the most important thing: He has shown that the current president can be beaten.
Trump stands for Trump and nothing else. A worse president I can not imagine, and neither can 80,000,000 other people
as he tore, and continues to tear up, America, and what it has all ways stood for, all without a tear dropping from he, or his psychotically sicko sychofanatically fragile sympathizers, since Trumpps' sycophancy infamous infancy, that just about any should/would/could see Trumpps' "infancy" ( in his fans, see) ware a societal break dance down around the polls from which he swings (unfortunately not gallows), as his pole position, should be to just like Potsie (sit on it) , became housed in Public Housing, as this warehousing of just another person living in Public Housing while refusing to work, is not just another quirky twerk, butt an asz seen on TV, real Fck up, of up scale to SUPER size the downtrodden , while enriching those pouring on the panes as seen through by many inn glass houses wear pants aren't worn, just patience, as impatient has become the world spun buy a whirled wind bag of a mental deficit derelict piece of Shit that has regressed our country a plenty, and not the Good and kind.
His actions have brought tears to swollen eyes that see and despise all this non secret agent of Putin his place, disgrace after disgrace, another prayer of passion fruit, as Amen or omen, or a man or Woman, in the end will pray that the prey has not foreshadowed what will eventually Play out, without a production directed by a director, with out the clout, to leverage our now sewer grate Country from it's depths, cause America, and it;'s Well Being
too deep for so many to hear the cries and pleas
for help,
has been hit by a disease, that makes the current pandemic look,
look like it's aim was
to please
I’m sure they are thrilled that the US government will become the patsies they were before trump. Put your pocketbooks away, nato, the American taxpayers have you covered, etc.
On the otherhand, a little 'good-cop' action can be expedient. We can threaten to bring back the other Trumphole in four years for a repeat of what just happened!
[deleted]
In that case, don't hold breath while waiting! This is a what you see is what you get -moment.
Of course they are. Trump leaving means that they can go back to the Obama level of laziness relying on the US to be the world police and piggy bank.
is that like the threats of martial law and a muslim communist take over we heard from rwnj psychics in the past?
[deleted]
No Value [devangelical]
Seriously? I as a question and it's "No Valure"?
If you don't want the 'travails' of being titled number one nation in the world - the world's superpower; then, just step aside quietly without the ruckus. China will "AI" best the future in our stead!
That's what we were getting with Trump as president. We were on our way to being number one again. With Biden and the 'progressives" in charge we will end up being mediocre and average again.
That's the line he was selling. Like a political used car salesman.
When have we not been number one?
Pure conjecture.
Well there were a couple of decades in the beginning...
We've been number one in that regard for months now.
I suppose it took a little time to get our footing.
Well arkpdx, elections have consequences. I won't rehash all the reasons that Donald Trump was the wrong direction for this country in totality, but cheaters never stay of top for long. Thus, Donald had a "great fall" and try though they may, the republican party could not put Donald back on the wall again.
President-elect Joe Biden's vague assurances that a Democratic Party administration somehow imply a return to 'normal' socio-political life in American are fundamentally dishonest. There is no 'normal' hiding in the wings, waiting to jump onto center stage at some future point.
Biden seems to propose that the contradiction between the increasingly desperate life conditions of the vast majority and the untold wealth of the capitalist financial elite can be somehow bridged with religious pablum about love and the recognition that all people are 'created in the image of God,' along with corny declarations that 'we are all in this together.'
Joe Biden can not so much as bring himself to point out that the 2020 election marks a major turning point in the decay and collapse of American democracy. His unite with Republicans strategy won't end well. His reply to Lester Holt that the vast majority of police are 'straight, honest and responsible' indicates that nothing will be done to curb the epidemic of state-police violence. His cabinet is the incarnation of imperialist reaction, and his security team will consist of right-wing militarists.
I anticipate that a President Biden and his Democratic Party will prove as ineffective in checking the growth of the US fascist movement while it is in office as it was when it was not.
I would say you are a pessimist, but actually I think this is much worse: You have all the earmarks of a revolutionist. I could be wrong, nevertheless. Questions:
Of course President Elect (PE) Joe Biden is not talking about forging a revolution in of a country which just shakily, nervously, but handedly, voted down a takeover attempt by its sitting president (and still an undercurrent is vibrating). It is enough for now to repair some of the breaches in our societal fabric and political establishments which are certainly damaged by the aforementioned leader and a pandemic ravaging the very people you would like to see rise up! And though the fundamentals of our economy retain strong and relatively vigorous, they are being put through an exacting stress-test in 2020.
[deleted]
Yeah, hell if a way to unite people.
Sir or madame, heal thou-self and your 70 million loose associates-so the rest of us can get on with progress! Now we are all participating in making a mess of things in this country through one form or the other methodology, it is time we all turned to save something for a change.
It is sir and I have absolutely nothing to heal nor do any of my associates.
With respect, sir. Until Biden properly offends you - you would be wise to not associate him with some unkind or grievous social media commenters.
Nah, we are going to treat Biden like the left and media treated Trump and anyone that didn't vote for Hillary. [deleted]
Well do you, 'Boo.' The saying goes. We can clearly see that Donald Trump is not the man he once thought himself to be. His lies are beginning to consume him before our eyes. Don't know what that means for his strong and stubborn loyalists. Eventually, I guess some of Trump supporters will see the shell of the man that is now Donald J. Trump, as his well-coutured facade falls.
The old fall back defense when you don't have anything of value to say.
Speaking of Bunker Boy.
You have no right to tell me who to associate with or not. I find Biden's announcement of his first four actions he will take offends me and I have no doubt their will be many more offensive actions to come.
I wrote:
You misconstrued my meaning. So read it again, please. Now then as to your disagreements with his "first four actions" —to each his or her own. If you find those four offensive-so be it. It's your right to have an opinion about it one direction or other.
easily offended, eh? What are you...some kind of snowflake?
The author provides no evidence; and is completely devoid of facts.
What did Trump give Kim Jong Un? What did he give Putin? That is right; nothing. Sanctions are still in place on both countries. US still has troops in Syria illegally- against all logic. Trump did something Obama never did by sending Ukraine US weapons, and allowing them to purchase the same. I am sure Putin is really happy about all of that./S
Why the sarcasm? Putin is a international holdout on salutations for the incoming Biden presidency. Why? Putin loves Donald in the 'chair.' Sanctions are a complexity, yes. They are not a be all that ends all: In this case routine phone calls between Vladimir and Donald.
What one must do is take a 3 dimensional look at the political world. To do that, use a bigger lens, please.
Prove it. I don't mean with empty conjecture. Name one thing Trump has done to aid Putin and Russia? [deleted]
[deleted]
Ronin2, I think you confuse me with someone who is 'working' to sell you on something. That would be wrong. You have the opportunity to catch all the news of the day and you have been around here for a great many discussions on Donald Trump. I will offer you nothing, per se.
Figure out Donald for yourself or not. It's all the same to me.
@13.1.3.
So nothing then, like normal. Just empty words backed by nothing.
Ditto. Catch up on recent history on your own time. (Smile.)
Interesting is it not...? I think the only thug dictators Trump actually embraced was Erdogan and the Saudi crowned prince ... I may be mistaken but are those not 'allies'...?
H liked that guy in Brazil, the Phillipines, Kim Jong Un, most definitely Putin....
Of course they are thrilled - they get to once again feed at the trough that is the American tax payer... putting the American people first was never isolationism / nationalism .. it was all about American jobs and spending on the people of the United States. . of all the things that Trump did I do not know / understand why this ticked people off so much, all he did was quit trying to buy friends [the word 'ally' should not / does not mean send money] and actually made them pay more of their own way ... one of the youngest nations on the planet is suppose to support the rest of the planet? ...guess it is above my pay grade [albeit I cannot excuse the Trump administrations approach, there were some couth issues]
I do find it interesting that for 4 years there was non stop crying and whining about Trump not being 'my president' BS .. that he was an illegitimated president [blah blah blah] scream at the sky .. haha but now the Trump supporter is just suppose to 'get over it' the election was fair and square [blah blah blah] .. now the pattern is going to repeat itself? Biden may be seen as an illegitimate president ... is the left going to be bent out of shape that not all are jumping on the Biden band wagon?
I believe in the Republic that is the United States and We the People .... Biden is the president elect and should be respected, if for NO other reason than he will occupy the highest office in the land - yet since 2000 the office of president has been occupied by 'allegedly' illegitimate presidents .... hahahahahaha now Biden is legit : ) more mail in ballots cast then ever before .. yet less rejected than in any other election ... [?] interesting if proven to be true....!
Hope all had a safe and Happy Thanksgiving .. I made Gumbo .... my youngest son picked his pot up and went home to his apartment .. The End : )
Peace!
Don't take this personal as I can 'feel' your frustration with politics. However, Donald Trump can down the escalator to a waiting world to make a lousy first impression at his debut. Think of it as something Trump was familiar with doing having done many times: A WWE studio entrance.
Donald Trump walked to the microphone in 2015 and without hesitation began a process of taking to task every reasonable and decent standard this country internalized and built as its image. Sure we have issues with those nations that don't properly carry their loads, plural. However, being a professional 'heel' is not a good quality for this world's preeminent nation.
All eyes were on Donald. And for four years, nearly daily, Donald showed up and showed out!
Thus, in the vernacular of the WWE - a former hang-out of Donald: Donald screwed Donald. With that big ass mouth of his and his micro-management of every 'crevice' of American life in funky fashion. And, we can't forget the lies. And more.
For a good work, I, we, thank Donald Trump for his service. For making us all feel inadequate, diminished, tarnished, stained, and dirty -- Donald Trump needs to get the he** to stepping through the open door placed squarely in front of him on January 20, 2021. We will consign our memories of this current president to history for debate, argument, and further development. Although, 'his-tory' as a former president begins the day he vacates the WH grounds.
One last thing. It is Trump's hubris and uncouth-ness which won't let him come to grips that there are republicans and conservatives who thought and think he is a bit much; way over the top. That said folks in his own party did not wish to see four more years of his antics and cut their Trumphole loose while do-able. Allowing him to get on with his life, as he has dispassionately done to many under his control.
That is a wild generalization of how 'we all' feel .. but okay .. sorry you have felt that way. There is no rule book to being president .. sadly not even anything about having couth - nor about being an obnoxious loud mouth .. I agree that Trump screwed himself .. all he had to do was shut his mouth, be phony [as in not himself] and he would have been reelected .. scary is it not? Once again 'we' have a president that was elected by votes cast against and not a vote for!
This is something that I do not completely understand .. it has seemed to me from the beginning of my political awareness, that this image of what the United States represents has been bastardized .. there is nothing about being a 'shining city on the hill' that says support everyone but the people actually working and footing the bill (does it?) ... this phony image of what the United States is suppose to represent is getting old - the United States has impoverished citizens .. a massive and still growing homeless population .. is there some reason that citizens of other nations 'should' take precedence over our own huddled masses yearning to breathe free?
Interesting speculation ... as I think similarly about H. and why she was not elected .. this voting against a candidate and not for one could come back to bite this nation even harder in the future
That is an assertion you can not prove, even if an oversimplification. Because multiple factors go into the decision to vote for an individual, against an opponent, and/or both.
As powerful as a vote is, it as a thing pales in comparison to what the best choices of a slate of candidates should be. At the end of the process, the "last man or woman standing" out from the candidate pool has done the work. It is undeniable. (Though, some may question the methods deployed.)
Even Donald Trump accomplished the act of being 'last man standing.'
It should be scary, but people are easily fooled. Our most successful politicians seem to be the ones who are most adept at hiding who they really are. It's amazing to me that Trump managed to get elected even once while being his authentic self.
Whoopie Goldberg made a statement in the nineties, to which I credit to her and paraphrase here:
"Instead of sending aid to the world, why not reach out to help a neighbor across the street?!'
So yes, Whoopie and many of you, us, recognize that there are tangible problems with being the world leader and being the driving force for nations in dire straits and continual need. And yes the "position" can be at times insufferably difficult to manage and hold on to-that said, it is the inherent nature of leading countries to well, lead.
Despite hardships, lack, and loss.
This is the meaning of the "shining city" metaphor. It is a city to be 'modeled' after. To gaze upon and look up to. Consequently, that city must have something of inherent and real value that never decreases its substance. For the US, It is not just our ability to make wealth. it is our national 'big heart' approach to life on this planet.
That branding we build for ourselves, was tarnished for a moment in time, when a president worked to tell us to gaze at ourselves inwardly and avoid those staring eyes abroad all around us! Ironically by looking away from the world, automatically without hesitation, our internal national light dimmed at the top.
Thankfully, we saved ourselves in the November 2020 presidential election. Because a nation planned on the basis of immigration, needs immigrants to support its 'mission' and good overall health! Our country's beauty in the world stems from its internal 'freshness' of ideas. Our ideas come from a robust influx of new immigrant populations and tribes who have experienced the best and the worst from other humans across the globe-before they wash up on our shores to spend the rest of their individual lives and make new generations.
That Colour Me Free, is the 'merican experience and for our nation health its priceless.
Which is saying something about what some people want in a leader. Donald has the worst appetites. As demonstrated right now when he is being extraordinarily 'humiliated' by the world and he persists in his usual appetites while under a much brighter spotlight and dome, instead of begging off from those choices for a time.
I am convinced that millions of people voted for Trump on policy in spite of all the negatives. They held their noses and made a hard choice.
That is my conclusion too. Outside of social media, I do not know anyone who likes Trump but I know plenty of people who voted for his policies.
So there was no other choice candidate among a list of republicans and conservatives running for the 2016 presidency who would not have split the political party and driven suburban women away in four years? Trump was and is unique among you all? Is Trump even a true republican or conservative?
Trump giveth and Trump taketh away. The nation clamors for a second round of stimulus relief; Trump refuses to 'act.' People remember in each election cycle the policy indifference which allow them to individually and collectively languish.
16, if memory serves. Something like that. Too many, as it turned out. They split the non-Trump votes so much that Trump ended with the most delegates by convention time.
I don't know what you mean by "you all." I would acknowledge that he is unique when it comes to presidential candidates, wouldn't you?
I don't know what you mean by "true" but he has been both a Democrat and a Republican in his life. I believe he has switched parties multiple times.
Tacos. I am not going to "do cute" with this. The questions are sincere and yet you twisted them to do your bidding. Enjoy your handiwork. I'm moving on.
I do not see how Tacos! twisted your questions. Best I can tell he tried to give you direct answers. Maybe you had more specific notions in mind. If so, I would formulate more direct, specific questions.
On splitting the party, I do not think the other candidates would have split the R party (at least nowhere near how Trump did).
Trump is demonstrably unique.
Finally, I do not see Trump as a partisan. Quite the opposite. He will use whichever party suits his purposes. Similar to how he used religious people and blue collar workers to suit his needs. He is a narcissist through and through who does not give one shit for anyone (except, likely, his progeny).
IMO
You forget the media and Democrats made Trump because they thought he would be an easy win for Hillary.
Hard for those other candidates to get any traction when the media was hanging on Trump's every word and action.
Wishful thinking at best .. this is something that confuses me as well. Going out into neighborhoods, registering people to vote and then taking them to the polls has less to do with educating the individual on the issues .. it has more to do with getting them to see things 'your' way .. organizing a drive. I believe that these services are important, but please do not sell it as if there are multiple factors ... albeit I know the majority of the voting public does educate themselves on the issues and vote their conscience.
Really? Whoopi for president next?
Not hardly .. it is actually taken from the 'Sermon on the Mount' and represents, in the Reagan era to the world, a beacon of HOPE (something to strive for within their own country) not a beacon of 'if you can get here we will take care of you' .. I call my nation a successful experiment in a Republic designed to protect the individual from the tyranny of the majority rule .. but now that the US is called a 'representative democracy' majority rule is trying to force itself into the federal government .. and the American experience continues to be bastardized .. all the while 'we' take what 'we' have for granted ignore (out of arrogance) that is 'we' have problems and focus on other nations
Why do some hero worship politicians? NO, 'we' do not have a king or queen, but 'we' have royalty in Congress, titles for life, wages and health care for life .. some getting rich while a 'public servant' .. I am glad you are pleased with Biden - I was ALL ON BOARD for Biden in 2016 .. alas it was H.s turn - so America had to take a seat for 4 years til it was his turn again? I think it is great that you think that providing for the world as some great accomplishment .. but these same things are what is putting a burden on this great nation .. 'we' are no longer Americans, no longer proud to be an American or as you so insult 'merican. 'We' have become fragmented - an American is now a hyphenation .. cancel culture [a term I do not embrace] is tearing down that which is found to be offensive by some / many / whatever the 'mob' takes upon themselves as no longer acceptable [not saying I disagree with all of it]
I have ZERO against legal immigration .. but that is not what we are talking about is it?
P.s.... the United States is no longer a fledgling nation - 'we' have our own Indigenous peoples, that were removed from their lands, lied to, then segregated on reservations that need to be recognized / their way of life needed to be, still needs to be embraced . 'our' ancestors did harm and the harm continues .. slavery did harm, and once again in ways the harm continues even though slavery was abolished - we have our own young people now that provide freshness and innovation .. perhaps it is time to give them the chance .. but I am not even sure if 'we' have done them any favors by giving them a sense of superiority and entitlement .. safe spaces to hide, because 'we' have not taught conflict resolution for years .. I am right, your are wrong .. I am offended / do not agree with you, so you cannot say that.. the list goes on ....
I am not here to argue CB, I am here to exchange thought..... I respect your opinion and know that your life experience is different from mine .. yet here we are disagreeing in a respectful manner .... that is what makes the United States the BEACON OF HOPE .. ! [In my opinion]
Peace!
Agreed Tacos .. and Trump could have been very easily reelected .. for all the 'hate' for the man - 75 million'ish still voted for him....
Trump did have policies I agreed with .. China being the main one!
Watched a Frontline yesterday on the Supreme Court and Mitch McConnell .. interesting stuff!!!
the past election was trump's for the taking, as an incumbent president always has a political homefield advantage, but he squandered many missed opportunities to build upon his base, and was 6+ months behind the curve in crisis management.
No argument from me ... that is pretty much what I have been saying in this whole thread .. had Trump just shut his mouth and even pretended to play into the science of a pandemic he would still be the president. I think his supporters would have remained supportive, even if he told them to wear a mask - Trump never does anything halfway .. 2020 became focused on his 40+% that no matter what would vote for him .. leaving the rest out there to say 'what the fuck?'
Agreed .. yet is not that what most politicians do? Are 'we' not only important when it is time to vote - even then 'our' opinions do not really matter once the politician is in office [for the most part .. not all]
In some kind of odd fairness that is what presidents are .. do ... the office is ran for by narcissistic individual by design - takes someone that thinks a great deal of themselves to think they have what it takes to lead a nation. Hubris always plays a role...
I do not know if it is sad or not, once again above my pay grade .. but there is an agenda, and a legacy being sought by anyone that runs for president... what I do know that is sad is how the nation divides itself. My youngest son was out at the gun club when he contacted me and let me listen to the conversation regarding Biden being the puppet of Obama and progressives..
American politics at its finest?
Yes, politicians say whatever they think will get them elected and then typically fall lockstep into the machine once elected. Our government is not operating as a good representative democracy. The power lies with the leadership and that is a tiny, sliver minority of a nation of 328+ million.
I see a profound difference in narcissism between Trump and:
When we hit Nixon and Johnson we have our first points of comparison. Both Nixon and Johnson were serious narcissists but they both were far more statesmanlike than Trump. Nixon and Trump might need a run-off on delusional thinking though.
It is indeed sad and seems to be worsening. I have been disgusted with our politicians for decades and my disgust has grown over the years. I do not think that this is a function of me though.
it's long been my contention that the political landscape in america would be dramatically different today if nixon had not been pardoned by ford and ended up facing the music.
That's Taco response to my question in blue above. My question comes before Trump 'flattened' the other republicans! Republican and conservatives had a 'cornucopia' of candidates besides Trump. Taco 'escapes' directly dealing with that aspect through a hatch he carves in the question. Republicans and conservatives CHOSE this freak of nature-Donald Trump to be their candidate and plenty still do despite what has gone on for four years.
Yes, very true ... but you are also comparing apples and celery .. these men on your list were groomed politically - was Trump ever in public office? Did he ever even run for anything outside of president ...? I think it is the lack of couth that somehow makes it look as if there are varying degrees of narcissism.
Interesting .. how so? Had Nixon been sent to prison, what difference would if had made in the political landscape other than do not get caught .. paranoia bit Nixon in the ass .. had he not lied and just laid the cards out on the table, I doubt he would have been forced to step down to avoid impeachment..
Perhaps I am missing your point?
I am comparing PotUS to PotUS. Every human being is different so one can always claim apples to oranges. You are arguing that Trump's profound difference in narcissism can be explained by virtue of him not being groomed as a politician whereas the others were.
It is very easy to offer examples of non-politicians who could have been PotUS and who would have operated in a presidential manner and made decisions for the good of the nation rather than strictly focus on what is good for them personally.
Let's take Bill Gates as an example. Imagine Gates as PotUS. Do you see him tweeting about the long ugly face of a female rival? How about talking off-the-cuff about how nobody has ever done what he has done, bragging about his wealth and his 'best words', etc. Imagine Bill Gates downplaying COVID-19 to keep the stock market (and thus his personal wealth) high. If Gates had lost his reelection bid, can you imagine him behaving like a delusional petulant child refusing to engage in our historic, graceful transfer of power and instead working his sycophantic supporters into a frenzy over claims of unevidenced election fraud and countless bogus lawsuits?
I cannot. Gates, I am confident, would have respected the office of PotUS. He would have chosen his words carefully knowing the weight each word spoken by the PotUS carries with a nation of 328+ million people and with the rest of the planet.
It is not about political grooming. Trump is an asshole narcissist and to paraphrase Trump: like noone has seen before.
Not at all .. I am arguing that there are not 'degrees' of narcissism .. some narcissism is apparently 'more acceptable' .. Trump is crude and obnoxious, but had he been polished [groomed is the word I chose] would 'his narcissism' have been any different? Trump's childish insecurities were his biggest downfall, as he could not resist 'fighting' back against his detractors .. everything was a personal slight or attack - I cannot even pretend to look into the mind of other presidents .. yet I am quite confident that there was screaming and gnashing of teeth - yet they listened to advisers
I agree .. as far into the non existent future / past as one can project .. yet once again Bill and Melinda Gates are not narcissistic in my opinion .. they are well educated successful humanitarians .. apples and celery comparison - why even try to compare people?
My argument is that there is not 'degrees' of narcissism .. as there are not 'degrees' of racism ... 'we' may see these 'isms as having differing degrees .. we have regular narcissists [Obama] .. regular racists [your neighbor that keeps his beliefs to himself] extreme narcissists [Trump] extreme racist [organized hate groups] .. I have had this discussion before the definition is the definition ... it all boils down to what 'we' are willing to accept..
I am quite certain I have not expressed myself in the best way possible ..
Hard to say. I have a hard time imagining Trump's narcissism being contained by grooming.
Not to me either. I offered Bill Gates as an example of a private sector successful executive who has never been groomed for political office. I was countering the notion that Trump's behavior was a result of not being groomed politically.
It is not the lack of grooming, it is the person himself that is the core of the problem.
IMO, Trump's narcissism could not be contained by grooming. He is too extreme, too out of control in terms of unpresidential behavior and unstatesmanship. He simply is not a person who should have been elected to this office.
I of course agree with that. But you started off suggesting I was comparing apples to celery. That did not connote a degree point but rather that I was flat wrong to compare Trump with his predecessors. That the comparison was invalid.
The mass media is a competitive business, not a public service agency. It has a job to do for its business models. In the case of republicans and conservatives at-large deciding upon a candidate to run for an office, media does not choose that one individual-voters do!
I don't know what that means, so I can't really respond to it.
Why do you seem to assume that only you can be sincere? My answers were sincere. I can't even fathom what you think my "bidding" or "handiwork" would entail.
Frankly, I see no value in your apparent need to assume the worst in other people. If you feel like your meaning is not coming across or being heard, why don't you try simply clarifying your words instead of picking fights with people?
The proper answer is this: There is nothing unique about Donald Trump as far as him being a liar, cheater, and thief of the physical and intellectual property of others -even from his fellow republicans and conservatives. The implication (of uniqueness) is of something to be admired and to strive after - Donald Trump's persona and professionalism as a politician is atrocious! There is nothing 'unique' about driving one's conduct to the ng degree just to be a 'dirty bastard' to friend and/or foe. It is not something to be awe of or treat as exceptional.
You didn't say that, so I had no reason to think that. You asked about:
The only practical time period in which Republicans had a choice other than Trump was during the 2016 primaries, so that's what I focused on.
It was pretty clear to me at the time, that most Republicans and Conservatives wanted someone other than Trump. Before April, he didn't win a single primary with a vote of 50%, and several were in the 20s. From April, it was basically down to him, Cruz, and Kasich, neither of whom had enough delegates to make people think it was worth voting for them at that point.
Nevertheless, there was a lot of talk in the party about possibly going to the convention and picking someone other than Trump. I have never heard that kind of talk before from either party and I consider it noteworthy. However, because they feared the legal wrangling and party discord that would ensue, they opted to avoid that fighting.
I have no need to escape anything. If you don't like the way I answered your question, all you had to was restate it. You seem to have zero problem doing that for TiG, but rather than do the same for me, you'd rather make me the subject of derogatory discussion.
Now you're not talking about 2016. You have to be talking about 2020. I can't tell if you have a question for that or not.
As you can see, I am happy to give you space to explain yourself. I am not - and have not been - trying to twist your words in any way.
While the definition of republicanism and conservatism is best defined by members of the classes, there are clear evidence of republicans and conservatives, exampled by the Lincoln Project (organization) for one, which have 'walked away' from this current iteration of the republican party.
Tacos!, is a favorite supporter of the aforementioned worldviews - so I am simply asking for a clarification on what is this that some outcasts of the party are meaning when they write opinion pieces and give television interviews expressing Trump and his teammembers as "RINOs" and flipping the script - Trump conservatives see those currently outcasts who are opposing him as the same: "RINOs."
Tacos!, replied by straddling the fence and in a way deferred away from this 'hot-button' issue that is presently pitting republican party officials and members against each other.
All he really had to do was try to not behave like a 5th grade bully and I think he could have been very successful.
I still don't agree with everything he has done, and I do think he could have handled the pandemic better, so it could have still had an impact on the outcome.
Nevertheless, I think the man is far more controversial than most of his policies.
I agree that Trump was not the right man for the job as a whole .. yet once again 'terms' such as unpresidential / unstatemanship being used that are subject to personal interpretation cloud things .. 45 / 49% of the population did not care if he did not fit the 'normalized' presidential definition ...
Not my intent to be abrasive or try to invalidate your opinion ... I am an individual that tries not to label / define people - my whole life I have been forced into slots I did not want to be in / nor fit in ... that is why I try never to compare people. YET apparently that seems to be how 'we' take a stand .. 'we' say I am not like them .. that is not how I would do it .. not acceptable ... Us v. Them
I do not know where a line needs to drawn or if a line can be drawn .. perhaps it comes down to reevaluating 'our' relationship with government and 'our' perceptions? I keep looking at the political landscape and cringing - is the federal government becoming royalty? In hard times people get laid off .. manufacturing jobs vanishing .. 'We the People' struggle to survive etc... the government shuts down for even a couple weeks and the nation is up in arms over government employee jobs [they have bills to pay] WTF? An hierarchy has been created .. 'we' just do not call it a monarchy...
If 'We the People' want to define what the president behavior should be .. perhaps there should be a qualification process outside of being 35 years old and a natural born citizen .... that is not what America is all about though is it? Every lil boy and girl are told you can be anything they want to be .. there is never a caveat that they must behave in a specific manner in order to succeed .. is there?
He is unique in a bad way. Unique does not necessarily connote 'good'.
Eureka! Confirmation there was a window of opportunity to turn away from the liar, cheater, and thief that is Donald Trump. But, some of "y'all" - republicans and conservatives wanted what this candidate offered and did not take any of the advice about the downside of running a corrupt and ruinous businessman who 'glorifies' in living in an alternative universe, kingdom, of his own creation, populated by all those willing to put themselves under his control as "lieutentants," stewards, and rank and file.
But, this liar made promises to do better as president and leader of the free world —now we know he did not change one iota of his personal or professional character to match the upgrade to world leader and leader of the free world.
Those terms properly and accurately express my opinion of Trump. Trump IMO behaves in an unstatemanlike manner. He is not presidential in any sense of the word.
It is not possible to express one's view of an individual without using nouns and adjectives. You deem these to be an act of labeling; I see them as a way to communicate a thought.
Each individual makes that choice.
Based on your collective comments I will ask this:
Do you consider Trump to be presidential? Did he properly represent the office of PotUS in a manner that maintains its historical dignity and importance?
Agreed .. however, 5th grade seemed to be his emotional level when he felt he was slighted .. I have been shaking my head since election 2016 .. I am convinced the condition is not going away anytime soon ... my own father feels as though the election was stolen from Trump.
Could not agree more ... 4 years later people are still choking on his descent of the escalator ...
Cannot say I supported the man, but many of his policies I do support .. as I said above China being the main one - Putin is the bad guy .. yet Xi has far more power .. a long list human right violations .. Hong Kong crack down etc etc ... yet in the name of cheap stuff Xi gets a pass? probably never going to understand that...
Have you at least considered that Trump's maskless rally policy could, mind you, could be the reason Herman Cain, a high-profile, republican and conservative, is dead of Covid-19? (I can't prove this, but can you opine there was location, chance, and probability?)
I completely agree.
Granted. However, for our purposes, generally, in these conversations, who gives a "blank" about what make a uniquely bad politician? It kind of goes without stating it, I was writing about common nuance of political usage of unique.
We have been talking for years about why Trump is unique among presidents. Seems like many care to some degree about this.
I barely consider Trump a man ...!
Yet I am a person that has not seen much in lines [by my definition] of presidential behavior in some time .. strangely enough, one of the most presidential things that I have seen in 20 years was Bush holding Maliki's hand .. taking time out of his day to video conference with him in an attempt to guide a fledgling government - he broke it, and he reached out to try and assist in repairing it. The following president turned his back...
... perhaps that our definitions of presidential are not the same .. outside of no, Trump in my opinion was not a good fit for president...
Would you vote for Bernie Madoff or Harvey Weinstein for president IF they had promised policies that you approve of ?
Yes or no question , but explain if you want
Trump tried to be the "doer" that never repents, never looks back, never apologizes. . . in other words, 'merica's (one and only) strongman. Breaking with all traditions and receiving the country unto himself.
Donald Trump will not be this country's strongman any time soon.
Well, Donald won't even get a second consecutive term! His economy is in a 'shithole.' Unemployment is raging higher. And he evidentially can not fight an opponent he can't mince words with- that is, Coronavirus. It's eating whatever political 'spine' Trump uses as a frame on a daily basis.
Peace out John!
I'm just trying to figure out if you have any standards of personal behavior a president must adhere to in order to get your approval.
This idea that Trump is just one of a crowd when it comes to bad behavior is absurd. I'm sure you don't want to make absurd comments on Newstalkers.
Dear JohnRussell
Please leave me alone .. I realize you have issues with me, so why hump my leg? Nothing I could say would have any impact on your narrow blindered view of another's life or opinions!
This is the last response you will ever receive from me .. take care of you!
I hardly ever address you. If you believe otherwise please prove it now.
You write a long comment essentially justifying support for trump. I asked you to explain yourself and you take offense. not my problem.
There is often a frustration with the status quo - with professional but feckless politicians. It transcends the generations and sometimes results in someone getting elected who is charismatic, but lacks the usual background. In fact, that background and the rough edges of their personality may actually be an asset in such a climate. That's how a guy like Trump gets elected. It's how Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse Ventura got elected governor. It's how Al Franken could be a Senator.
it's important to have occasional reminders that absolutely no person in the US is above the law. it reinforces the rule of law and it can be used as a unifying vehicle. everybody hates politicians, they say, and it's good for the health of the country to see those that are supposed to be our employees and/or representatives that profess or proclaim living to a higher standard pay at the very least the same price as anyone else that tries to game our system. the protracted humiliation of a public prosecution and then serving a prison sentence is a very steep price to pay for an over inflated ego. that's an important cultural quality control check that should be exploited at every opportunity. jerry ford paid the price at the polling booth for nixon's pardon, suggesting the public was expecting much more punishment.
Of course.
Agreed! Thanks for the clarification .. I was not seeing the complete picture you were presenting....
Huh? Biden is the president elect .. unless he can prove fraud - consecutive is moot
Actually unemployment numbers have declined .. albeit that may not last long, as places are closing up again
This is a bit hard to decipher, but I think I get the gist of it. Yes! Our nation does do a great deal for other countries, at least in appearances. I say appearances not to be critical, but to admit to not knowing what I can't know about how other nations makes 'insider' exchanges of products, goods, and services contractually with us if not made public.
Let's be clear, being in the position of #1 does not come without its challenges, testings, and rewards. I, probably like you, just wish any rewards suitable and worthy enough would make its way to the rank and file citizens were it could allay a whole lot of griping and murmurings about our nation 'oversharing' itself with other nations.
'merican is not an insult. In the frame of reference, I am a 'merican too! Glad somebody brought it up so I can clarify: I take off the "A" because this nation of our is not the only "Americans" in the "Americas." There are Northern Americans, Central Americans, and South Americans!
Somehow, our great country has turned the phrase, "I am American." —possessive. At least in the hearts and minds of United States citizenry. I am making a nuanced distinction solely for the purpose of broadened the term and its usage once again. Technically, we are citizens of the U. S. A or the United States.
'mericans, as parlance from me is not intended to be an insult.
(Thank you for giving me space to explain why I share this in this way!)
I have a lower bar for presidential than you. To me, presidential means respecting the office and the people who voted you into the office enough to maintain a level of integrity and adult behavior consistent with our history. Behave honorably, sensibly, responsibly, etc. so that we can point to characteristics that we would encourage our descendants to aspire to.
That allows a rather wide leeway yet Trump managed to blow well beyond the limits.
IMO.
We should give our own people, young, old, and inbetween the sense of belonging to one another. What do I mean? We let the "shitty" political gamesmanship fall to the ground under our feet and beneath the dirt even that is between people. The young(er) people are ready for this. Sometimes, yea, sometimes I wonder if the younger folks get their "stupe" from us seniors who cultivate it.
Case in point: Donald Trump is too old for the divisionary strategy he deploys from the White House. For his years, he should have had all this conspiratorial, biased, it's me or the world, paranoid nonsense spooned out, but here he is spreading political poison throughout the veins of the republic! And, we the citizenry, individually have to tune him out or let him flood the zone of our hearts and minds because he really is a problem, in and of himself. A virtual "energetic bunny" of divide and conquer philosophy.
Some young people will pick up what Trump is spreading. Some other youths will not touch it with a ten-foot pole! Impressions. Donald Trump, arguably a successful businessman uses his achievements to impress upon our nation and by extension the world to pull apart from one another, don't be harmonious, but rather be selfish and discordant.
Our land is successful, because of forces (providence/talent/education/etceteras) that go well beyond internalizing wealth. We say we want life to have a greater purpose - well, money for money sake is not a higher purpose. Just ask the extremely wealthy if money is the meaning for their lives. Ideally, don't ask Donald Trump though! (Smile.)
I could go on with this line of thinking, but I would get nothing else accomplished this day. For it is a good place to dwell in discussion. Perhaps more later on it.
BTW, thank you for your tone. It is appreciated and I will mutually reciprocate as appropriate. (Smile.)
Tacos! Nice screed you got there. I read it accordingly. And am now moving on.
Yes. I understand. And then men like Trump SAT ON THE SYSTEM AND FARTS. There is one major difference we can all see from Arnold, Jesse, and Al - these men had a sense of belonging to the masses. Trump wants as many of us as he can persuade or delude to be his very own 'toys' in his very own menagerie alternative universe.
Those "poor" wretched close family members of his, trapped under his control. Or, do I have it wrong? Could it be that they enjoy living in Donald's dream world? How about the millions of voters who follow Donald - do they realize it is a dream condition they are sustaining simply by the force of their minds?
Okay, I am starting to drift here. Yea.
I guess if all people of North, Central and South America are Americans then I, too, am an American. However, I much prefer to be considered a Canadian. Actually, I think the only REAL Americans are the ones who are descended from those who were here before persons from elsewhere immigrated over the past 600 years. It is, however, a bit clumsy to have to call oneself an United States of American, isn't it.
And there is the matter of audacity by Donald Trump to tell the people who would not vote for him (to the faces of people who would vote for him) that they did'nt matter anyway, because he would protest their millions of votes—and win. Thereby, taking the presidency for four more years right under their noses! And then it got out that he had a planned strategy laid out to do just so!
Of all the damn gall. . . . Seems people, likely some conservatives and republicans even, take exception to specified "mind-manipulation" treatment from an extraordinarily arrogant Trumphole.
What "conversation" was that? Can you elaborate on this part?
Our "political landscape" afforded itself the time to fall prey to its own success. Having become the best at what it does and enjoying operating at its pinnacle best, as it is the case, there remain crooks and cutthroats who ooze in under all the "protective wards" and pillage our systems for themselves and their select affiliations. In other words, our high-end political parties get exploited by practiced think-tanks, tailored operations, and white-collar deceivers.
We do realize there is an immense flow of money and other resources that flows through the hands (and hearts) of our politicians. Our politicians, are pseudo-rock stars, and though it is no walk in the park to get in a position to be elected, once having done so-power, influence, and excesses are intoxicants for the severely weak-minded and pols will corrupt tendencies.
Look up the professional psychological definition and disorder: Narcissist. (I did earlier this year.) See if you can spot the signs.
Well said in its entirety.
There is always a manner of behavior to follow to achieve success. Always. It comes as part and parcel of being a member of society. Right now, if one is a member of the KKK, oneself and the values that one represents probably aren't accepted by most of society. Is this a bad condition? I mean, one has the right to be as batshit crazy as one wants, but there is necessarily some point where one is too far out there to be condoned as normal behavior.
So here we have a president who is lying to the country, actively and passively spreading false information, actively sowing the seeds of discord in our electoral process and democratic norms. When, exactly, is enough finally enough?
We had 40+ years to see that he was a lying, cheating scumbag who did not accept reality, but you know, I guess that is acceptable in a president now, which says quite a bit about us personally and the society in which we are presently living.
We are fucked.
Here in lies my conundrum with the president 'simply' being a nice honorable respectful guy for the future to aspire to ... does not the job then become a figure head, a 'photo op' in a [supposed] 'powerful' position and a great suit? Leading by example is a good thing, which also means the example should show said president taking care of the 'our' nation, while extending a hand that means more then above said photo op and handing over tax payer money?
Give me a lil leeway from the subject of Trump ..... I am sincerely not bashing former President Obama, he is just the most recent example of what I speak to ... the president of the United States is a leader, former President Obama wanted his words to carry weigh .. I think he thought his words were powerful...
......yet in 2012 goes on Jay Leno and states on a late night talk show that Putin has a cold war mentality [look it up .. I was watching that night, only because the president was going to be on .. Letterman was my guy] .. 'we' had a relationship with Russia prior (not saying it was a good one, but it existed and Russia was back on the map) ................
Obama mocked Romney about the greatest geopolitical threat / foe 'something like that - yet turns around and disses Putin on late night TV - fast forward to 2013, Boston bombing .. Russia had already handed us the key to the culprits before it happened ... fast forward again to 2014 Sochi Olympics (Obama almost did not let athletes go because of his unprovoked 'mistrust' of Putin's 'possible' handling of terrorist attacks) now jump to closing weekend of the games Ta Da 'not the coop' happens in the Ukraine .. [background] The Ukraine in December of 2013 had taken 5 billion of a promised 15 billion dollar loan from Russia - was being sued by China on a 3 billion dollar grain deal that the Ukraine double dipped on, took the money, harvested said crop and sold it elsewhere ................ enter the US and EU wining and dining the interim Prime Minister of the Ukraine.. 'we' hand over an additional 1 billion to the money pit and think Putin is just going to sit back and view a 'threat' to 'his then leased' Black Sea port (15 - 25 years was left on lease - do not quote me on that, the number is just not pooping into my head at the moment) as nothing? ... I am going too far into detail....
Jump to Crimea .. WTF did anyone think Putin was going to do? The United States had no business in Ukraine and the EU was not going to make them a member, which is what the Ukraine was seeking prior to the coop - but the then Prime Minister was leaning toward Russia ... anywho Russia takes Crimea, did not invade, 15k to 20k troops were already there on 'their' Black Sea port .. US 'leadership' condemns this [as if it fucking mattered] says the vote by the Crimean's was under duress, give Crimea back or else .. ya da ya da .... our great and honorable / sensible diplomat of a president then disses Putin in France. D Day 2014, even forcing'ish the then President of France to have separate meals - Putin leaves early after being 'disgraced' (not sure what word to use there)................................. Russia was even invited in 2019 .. Russia lost men, was an ally in the war - but Putin is a bad guy, I get it....
Big jump again in the timeline to 2016 [I am skipping the Syrian debacle and the now stronghold Russia has in the ME, as well as the debacle with Daesh because Obama did not like Maliki] .... Russia is interfering in the 2016 election, which I question to the severity / to what degree ('we' know they meddled) and if H. had won would the meddling even been a thing .. once again I derail a wee bit ...... Obama tells Putin 'KNOCK IT OFF' and goes about his campaigning for H....
Does any of that seem presidential to you? Is that a diplomat? Obama def a great orator, 'meh' a nice guy, well loved etc - but is that enough to be presidential?
Trump always behaved childishly .. amplified continually ... yet not recognized was Obama's childish behavior when he did not get his 'word weight' recognized.
Perhaps I judge the presidency of the United States to harshly - if 'we' want a figure head, especially when it comes to foreign policy, 'we' are headed in the right direction - probably the only thing I respected about Trump was his 'United States of Americans first' unhyphenated nor apologetic policy - notice I did not say "America first" because that is not what I saw Trump as doing...
Soooo I wrote you a book .. hope you see my view of what I think the 'leader of the free world' should do / or not do when it comes to said world .. making nuclear deal with Iran and a feel good Paris accord are great if one thinks that is what it takes to be a leader in the 'free' world .. the US hands over money and tries to keep said standing the world by bribing our allies.. ? ............. Oooo my word, I have not even stepped into the Turkey BS that is acceptable because of the strategic location and being a NATO member Erdogan is the supreme ruler now .. Xi is the supreme ruler of China .. Saudi has a 'crown' prince ... these guys are okay (except if Trump is involved, then he is embracing strong men?) but Putin is evil and out to rule the world HA! Lil Kim Jung-Un was somehow validated by the Trump administration .. ?
If America is back because Biden is the new president elect .. ? What exactly does this say about 'us' .. do 'we' want to feel good about being liked, or do 'we' want to lead the free world?
Shutting up now TiG ... : ) Thanks for letting me vent...!
Peace....
I seek a PotUS who also can competently perform the functions of office. I certainly have more than a sole criterion of presidential demeanor.
I read your post and hopefully the venting made you feel good. I think we agree in principle on what would make a good president. I suspect we also agree on the need to raise the bar on who should be elected to this office.
But I am not confident the balance of the electorate has received this memo.
One must define normal .. Trump is not the first dickhead in the Oval office - look back to President Grant (Oooo oops he is a hero) .. well unless you were an indigenous people living in the Black Hills of South Dakota when an illegal war was launched...
I am in no way intending to defend Trump .. I am simply trying to see all sides
No Thomas, we are not, and never have been : )
Apparently now, 'we' have a new president elect that is going to save 'us' from all evil and deliver us from temptation .... : ) 'We' can now feel good again [or so I am told] because "America is back" albeit it has always been here, 'our' Republic still stands ...!
Agreed ... Trump has sowed discourse over the election .. but for 4 years 'we' sowed discourse in the election process as well by calling trump an illegitimated president / not my president / Putin's puppet ... the list goes on .. yet that is okay.. because Trump is an abrasive jackass? 'We' tend to ignore a great deal when it serves a purpose .. perhaps....
Peace
Wow, that's a lot of warrens...
Biden's main function was to unseat Trump. My hope is that he lives to complete his single term of office and that he devotes his term to truly trying to reduce the divisive partisan environment, build sensible infrastructure, promote sensible environmental policies, encourage science, keep our military stable, project a presidential, strong, competent image to the world, etc. Basically, keep the ship afloat while navigating to calmer seas. I do not favor any major initiatives (in principle).
2024 will then give us the opportunity to nominate quality candidates. I fear we will have Harris vs some Bozo but I remain hopeful that this trend of lackluster candidates will not continue.
Nope and never will .. as there is no criteria to cast a vote - one does not even have to know the issues at hand, just vote .. I say this, because I feel if America's really had a desire for a strong leader / leadership in this nation 'we' would have a viable third party to check and balance the (D)s and (R)s ... .. so there will be another Trump - sadly ... it is only a matter of time ..
Thanks TiG .. I really appreciate the feed back - I know I ramble, I call it venting, but basically I am clearing out my thoughts ... have far too many details running around in my head to truly express myself .. things just keep popping up : ) my sons tell me since my (not so) lil man moved out that my ADD is now running the show .. my mind just keeps going : )
Amen ... from your lips TiG .. from your lips ....
I wanted Biden to run sooooooo badly in 2016 .. I really felt as though he was the man to allow the nation to take a deep breath .. absorb the changes that were happening, embrace them and start to heal the divide - I just feel as though that time may have passed ... I sincerely hope not though!
And Donald Trump was counseled and later often warned to allow these traits (if they be in him) to shine through him by many friends and foes. And like the privileged Trumphole he apparently chooses to flourish as, he did it his way: Leading against the grain. That is partially why he is being thrown out by the people and not given the time of day in the courts!
I am not a Harris fan .. do not see her as being able to win ... really wish Buttigieg had been the VP pick! There is talk of Nikki Haley in 2024 - however, I get the feeling she may be too tarnished from the current administration
I do not like Harris as a candidate for PotUS. Buttigieg would have indeed been a vastly superior choice for VP. Klobuchar too. I greatly dislike focusing primarily on physical attributes. And if Biden really wanted to smooth things out, he could have picked Oprah for V.P. She would likely have been an effective ambassador of good will.
Every R is tarnished from Trump. The R party has some serious cleanup to do.
Good point .. !
Yet another good point .. the next 4 years will not be easy, especially if Trump does not dropout of the political landscape ... he needs to retreat to lick his wounds or build his library, whatever it is that former presidents do .. write a book ..? Just stay out of politics - all X presidents should stay out of politics, I sometimes even question if they should endorse candidates...
If Trump ops to run in 2024, all bets are off however ... he could get back into office if Biden stumbles ..? [this sentence will now self destruct]
If Biden achieves most of your hopes, would you acquiesce that he was a 'quality candidate'?
Biden might help bring a certain...stability to the Office. But I have doubts he'll "wow" us. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.
WOW, there wasn't even one shit show at the WH this week!
WOW, the POTUS didn't fire anyone via tweet today.
WOW, the POTUS didn't make up any nicknames for his rivals today.
WOW, the POTUS didn't kiss Putin's ass this year!
Biden can WOW us by merely being a semi-literate human being.
I bet Biden can even say the word ORIGIN.
Acquiesce?
If Biden accomplishes what I suggested (or even a good part of it) his presidency will have been a great success IMO. Thus he will have earned, in my eyes, the designation 'quality PotUS' (and thus he would in hindsight have been a quality candidate).
I know the signs .. and still stand by opinion that most all who run for public office are narcissistic .. I am of the opinion that the definition is the definition .. it just seems parts of a whole are focused on - this person is extremely so, as apposed to that person that is a 'regular' narcissist...
Thanks for the replies CD, I am going to run a couple together here - if that is okay
We are a gun family, and my sons shoot league tramp and skeet .. immediately following the election(I believe) Tuesday the 10th my youngest was out at the trap house loading pigeons when a group started a conversation about the Biden presidency - my son video called me so I could see and listen [ease drop if you will]
This group of older to elderly men did not / do not have confidence that Biden will be his own man .. in some ways I see their point, I have some of the same concerns as to what is Biden going to do when the pressure is applied, how much influence will former President Obama have .. the progressives in Congress ..? the packing of the Supreme Court was of topic as well ..
After 4 years of a love / hate relationship with Trump .. elderly independents are seemingly paying more attention to what happens next - I only got to hear about 5 or so minutes of the conversation, but I know these people, retired middle class that saw their taxes go up under Obama (capital gains etc) .. I respect their views. I think they were breathing a sigh of relief to have Trump being removed from office .. but his policies also helped them - Biden is what, I interpreted them to be saying, is that he is an unknown factor, who will have his ear ..? Biden says 'we' know him .. and he is correct, yet his record is not one that impresses a Montanan or so was my impression of what I heard - and none liked Harris as VP .. !
I personally do not want any WOW stuff. Just do a good job of keeping the ship afloat and headed towards calmer waters while engaging in maintenance and some modest improvements in operations.
All good 'WOW's. If that is the WOW Biden brings then those are examples of what I have been talking about in terms of being presidential.
Some of us. I still have a higher standard for "wow" than that. Granted, Trump has lowered the bar substantially for what should be considered presidential behavior, but I do not acquiesce to the lowering of that bar.
But for Biden's term, I'm with TiG and Gordy - let's right the ship. Start healing the wounds. Hire smart people and listen to them. No big sweeping changes in policy. Not what I would call "wow" stuff, just what should be par for the course. Save the "wow" stuff for more stable political times.
WOW, Trump is actually being presidential for once?
In other words, change course a little rather than sink the ship.
Depends on the WOW.
I can be satisfied with that.
Exactly. Intimidate people too much, and we'll be right back where we were in 2016 - weak Democratic candidates facing (probably) weak Republican candidates, but with fear a prevailing motivator for voters, which tends to favor conservatives, IMO.
Many do seem to vote emotionally rather than rationally.
Also, the economic indicators that matter (e.g. earnings, unemployment) continue to look strong. If we can effectively achieve herd-immunity in the first part of 2021 then even though we will still have a bit of an economic slowdown (result of what is taking place now) the economy will likely start right up again.
My point is that Biden should just stay away from anything that could affect the economy. Just let things operate on their own and work on cleaning up. The economy should work well for Biden's term and that will earn him a major feather in history.
Plus, and this is critical, if the economy remains good under president Biden, then Trump has no argument in 2024. The nightmare scenario is that the economy hits its down cycle during Biden and Trump claims to be the guy to fix things and bring back the great 'Trump' economy. People will lap up that bullshit (sadly).
Exactly .. should Biden stumble / drop the ball .. whatever the term one wants to use .. trump could come roaring back .. sad and scary!
True. I never understood that criticism of Obama. Yes, things were bad when he took office, because the economy was already tanking. But ultimately, I did fine under both Trump and Obama, both in business and on the stock market, until the pandemic. Obama didn't really hurt me, and Trump didn't really help me. I'll bet if a lot of people were to look at their finances objectively, they would discover the same.
Hi Buzz! Yes, people from the "Americas" are "American." This point was driven home to me, by some news accounts of Central and South Americans who felt that the United States possessiveness of the word was, well, nationalistic. We even have a political party which tries to co-opt all the Americana paraphernalia it likes into its particular expression of patriotism.
On occasion, it is helpful to remind some of our people of a broader and proper use of the term, "American."
What balance should our next president put forward?
I want Biden to have all the wisdom to lead that 40 plus years in politics should instill in a leader. I want Biden to bare down and do what is politically correct. That is, realize that he has the acumen and demeanor to execute great policies, approved by some or all, if he focuses his attention and not listen to noisy riff-raff that always want to stir around in old crap or learn something new for knowing sake!
While all politics seems to be on a pendulum or see-saw going back and forth, there is relief in this if local governments would get their collective crap together. Stop sending up representatives to "blow shit up" as in my way or the highway. By now we can see the national "mood swings" for what they are. There will be no peace in pushing or pulling people to be something they plainly can not be or doing something they can not do.
So where do we land on the straight path? We can elect good people who want to do what is right for people across the board and do so over and over again.
Clarification needed, please. You wrote you approve of Trump policy-making, but not his public character. In Haley, who is a 'trumpist' you get rewarded with trumpism without the crudeness. Why consider the 'bearer' tarnished by the brushstroke?
As opposed to somebody who can't spell "hamburger" or his own wife's name?
Or so delusional that he doesn't know he lost the election.
Oprah Winfrey similar to Michelle Obama has no real interest in holding political office, locally or federally. Or, even for goodwill purposes.
Not the point. My point was that one could easily find a better VP than Harris.
Well, I guess. Anyway, we're just have to 'watch this space' together.
I think it is really sad that the most "impossible" human being to work with is given such lengths of lifelines in discussion. Democrats and the Never Trumpers had four years to explore means, methods, and resources of getting rid of this Trumphole in the White House. And they succeeded in doing so-honorably. Now, what is this? Still 'pining away' about his return? See that he does not! Donald Trump is a pathetic narcissistic liar, deceiver, and manipulator living in his own 'reality.' A rather extraordinarily dangerous man. Don't forget about him, but do the work to see that he never gets his hands on the gears and guts of this nation again.
Four years to record all his antics are left anyway!
That is only your opinion which is plainly and completely wrongheaded, in my opinion. We Democrats were not picking a candidate to please your consetvative mainline establishment Republican views. Remember that during the primaries you also often said that the Democrats could pick a much better nominee than Joe Biden and that I repeatedly disagreed with you because Biden was the strongest candidate in the swing states which Democrats must win to take the EC. In the end, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have handily whooped a sitting President which is always difficult. There is no zero zip evidence that anyone else could have done any better. Winning is everything in politics and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris beat Trump. The Democrats picked the candidates Democrats believed were the best candidates to beat Trump and they did. Who would have or could have been better at accomplishing that?
No comment.
Don't take this the wrong way, but. . . why do you think he didn't, . . . find someone "better" than Harris? There were other women on his short list! Besides, neither Biden or Harris have been "on the job day-1" yet to qualify as individual or collective proven failures.
Melania trump won the election?
I don't know, which do you think it is Trump's 1. White privilege. 2. Conservative privilege. 3. Appointment privilege. - that he is counting on to win in courts of law. Because apparently it is not professionalism, materials, and documents.
It's called stuttering, he cannot help it, just like some people cannot help being terrible at punctuation.
You think Biden could not find a better VP candidate than Harris? Really? She is objectively the best of all the available Ds?
Are you deeming me a conservative mainline establishment R? Seriously? What has gotten into you JBB? Where is this coming from?
You are arguing that Biden was the best candidate the D party could have picked?? The absolute best that the D party could possibly offer is Biden?? That does not speak well for 2024.
LOL. So because there can be no data on candidates who did not run against Trump you hold that nobody could have done better than Biden-Harris?
Looks like your entire post thus far has been high on emotion and low on reasoning.
Yes they did; that part is fact. But then your logic tells you that they are the only team that could and that they are the very best that the D party could possibly offer.
Likely true (for what it is worth). The D voters picked from what they had to choose from. Beating Trump was priority 1 so it is quite fair to say they were focused on who, among the choices they had, could best beat Trump.
Nobody JBB.
Nobody in the entirety of the D party is more qualified to be PotUS than Joe Biden and nobody is more qualified to be VP than Kamala Harris.
I am still trying to figure out where this is coming from:
Looks to me like you have ignored everything I have written for the past several years and jumped into a truly bizarre stereotype. I think you are the one who has the wrongheaded thinking here.
Biden projected upfront that he was going to pick an ethnically minority woman. So that narrowed his choices. Within his self-imposed limit, I suspect he thinks Harris is indeed the best for whatever objective he had.
So Biden likely thinks he made the best choice. I just find it funny that someone would think that simply because she was the VP pick that she necessarily is the best possible D for the VP slot.
Whether you acquiesce to it or not, Trump has lowered the bar so far that they had to dig a trench.
Now, as had been rinsed and repeated ad nauseam in our recent political history a Democrat will spend a huge amount of his political capital to concentrate on digging us out of the shit that Trump and the GOP have dumped on us.
Then, as happened to Obama, the GOP will point fingers and whine about Biden not digging us out of the shit FAST enough.
Vote for the GOP and they'll set you free!
Righting the ship, healing the wounds, hiring smart people and listening to them are ALL big sweeping changes in policy from the last 4 years.
We've already got members here claiming that what most of us view as Presidential, you know, things like accountability and respect and comity, is really just being PC and puts the US in danger of being under the thumb of the rest of the world.
I think Biden chose Harris as a way to appeal to the minority vote. So his decision was more political than practical. After all, a VP pick can make or break a campaign. Harris may not be the best VP choice, but she's not the worst either. Personally, I think Senator Tammy Duckworth might have made a better VP choice. An ethnic, educated female and decorated wounded military veteran can appeal to multiple groups. An honorable military service is certainly a plus. And Sen. Duckworth retired as a Lt. Colonel. It's too bad she cannot run for President.
It certainly makes sense that Biden chose Harris to appeal to the minority vote and to women. Also, a female VP candidate is historic and that appeals to a lot of people too.
Of course she is not the worst. That is what is so nutty about JBB's rant. My opinion that Harris is not the best possible candidate should not be met with: 'oh yeah ... well who is better?'. It should be taken as an opinion that is extremely well supported by commonsense. If someone stated that Harris is the worst possible VP candidate would it not be obvious to everyone that such a statement is logically flawed at the onset? The worst and best extremes identify a single individual compared to all the millions of individuals inbetween those extremes.
So who was?
I'm sure Biden had his reasons for selecting Harris for his running mate, of which we may not fully understand. While there are men who would make a good VP, and perhaps other women who are not a minority he could choose from, his choosing Harris is not truly not a bad choice either, which we may find further up stream.
But, I don't think anyone can doubt that selecting Harris helped gain him a great many voters who might otherwise not have turned out in the numbers to give Biden such huge votes. So, perhaps his reason for choosing Harris may have been for election benefits as well.
[deleted]
Then she could not have run for VP. you have to be eligible in all respects to be president to run for VP
Your use of acquiesce is just plain wrong. Given you used it again, even after I mildly objected, I will explain why.
Acquiesce implies that I have (reluctantly) agreed that you have shown me to be wrong on some point. That did not happen so why use that word? You should be asking if I would (in the circumstances you presented) consider him a quality candidate, not acquiesce to same.
You asked me this:
You asked how I would characterize Biden If these conditions become true. And I told you that in your hypothetical situation that I would consider Biden a quality candidate. Offer a different scenario and I might have a different characterization.
Noted. (I do not see why this was included.)
Characterize them that way then Dulay. I have no interesting in debating the labels you prefer. I am interested in what is done, not so much in the labels one puts on them.
We have members who write some truly nutty shit Dulay. Given I recently dealt with someone who is still thinking there is a path to victory for Trump, I am pretty sure most any wild idea can be held by some of these minds.
I am sure Biden thinks he chose the best candidate. If not, that would be strange.
I do not like Harris for VP but so it goes. I did not like Pence as VP either. That does not mean that Harris or Pence were the worst possible choices, it simply means that I would have hoped for better.
Why is this so controversial?
Of the other candidates who ran for the nomination this year, I would prefer to see Buttigieg or Klobuchar over Harris. But, then again, Biden had an enormous range of people to choose from so if I were to consider the available candidates I am sure I would come up with superior names.
And that really is my point. I think Biden could have easily done better than Harris. I am surprised that anyone objects to such an obvious observation.
Now, would you have picked Harris?
Controversial? Hmm....I just thought we were having a simple conversation, each expressing our own opinions about Bidens' choosing her as his VP.
What is so controversial about such a conversation? I just thought it was an exchange of opinions. Sorry if I came across in my comment as being controversial. That was certainly not my intent. And I truly apologize if I upset you.
I am referring to the thread, not to you. In particular, look at JBB's comment @14.1.108 That is a real WTF comment to read.
My comment was in reference to the objections (for lack of a better word) that I do not consider Biden and Harris to be the best possible choices for PotUS and VP. I would think this to be obvious.
Frankly, I would like to hear why anyone thinks either is best for the office they will hold.
Joe won the primary and he and Harris won the nomination and the popular vote and the Electoral College which makes them the best candidates. They were not who you would have picked butt you are not even a Democrat. Democrats chose who they believed were the best candidates and them winning confirms it. You were wrong in your predictions start to end. So, yes, I believe the Democrats picked the best candidates. And no, I do not believe any of the other Democratic candidates would have ultimately beat Trump. That is because, again, Biden was the strongest candidate in the swing states Democrats had to win to take the Electoral College in 2020.
She was under consideration for VP by Biden and she is eligible. Her Father was an American citizen. According to the Congressional Research Service (2011):
"The weight of legal and historical authority indicates that the term 'natural born' citizen would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship 'by birth' or 'at birth,' either by being born 'in' the United States and under its jurisdiction, even those born to alien parents; The predominant legal scholarship holds that the term natural born citizen applies, quite simply, to anyone who is a U.S. citizen at birth, or by birth, and does not have to go through the naturalization process. The child of parents who are U.S. citizens, regardless of whether he or she is born abroad, fits into the category under most modern interpretations."
Remember, John McCain was eligible to run for President, even though he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, because his parents were American.
Of course, Mr. Biden ended up not selecting Sen. Duckworth. But like I said, it's a shame, as she seems capable and qualified in other respects. She probably would have made an excellent VP or even President if circumstances were different.
Pence was a worse choice, but I suspect chosen for similar reasons as Harris was. As for worst possible choices, I think Pence ranks right up there as one of the worst.
I was wrong in what?? I have expected the D nominee to win since the COVID-19 pandemic hit the USA.
What on Earth are you talking about JBB?
Prior to COVID-19, my position was that all Ds had an uphill battle to displace Trump. Given the closeness of the swing states, Trump probably would be re-elected if not for his handling of the pandemic.
Your last two comments to me seem to come from someone who has no idea of what I have written in this forum. So, again, WTF is going on?
I stand exactly by every single word I said...
You bought into every one of the Fox News manufactured misconception about Biden. That he was too old, that he suffered from dementia and that he was feeble. In the end all of your opinions about whom the Democrats should have picked instead of the now President and Vice President Elect were proven wrongheaded.
You must be limiting yourself to those running for PotUS then. Right? Or do you actually believe that of all the Ds available the very best person to assume the job of PotUS was Biden.
I cannot imagine why you think there is no D better than Harris for VP. I do not expect you will enlighten me either other than 'because she and Biden won'. Biden + Harris were good enough to beat Trump + Pence. So job 1 was done. To me 'good enough to win' is a very different concept than 'best for the job'. Your reasoning, whatever it is, strikes me as incomplete.
Just like MAGA.
I did? That is a flat out lie JBB. Show me where I have stated that Biden suffered from dementia or that he was feeble. Don't just invent shit JBB, I get enough of that from the conservatives on the site. I did and do, however, hold that Biden is too old and that I am concerned that he is demonstrably not as sharp as he was when he was on the Obama ticket. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with Fox News. That is my assessment from watching him. And when Biden spoke at the convention I noted that he did a fine job. During the debate I noted that Biden did well. So again, WTF are you talking about?
You cannot even get straight my opinion on who I thought would win and why. Now you go to the extreme and just declare that ALL of my opinions were proven wrong?
I do not know what prompts people to just make shit up, but it is pathetic and obnoxious.
Biden Won the Presidency from Trump. Along the way he earned the support of all the other candidates. I am not going to argue that some yahoo you know MIGHT have done better than the former Vice President and Senator Harris.
Of course that is possible. So fucking what?
Are you a lifelong active Democrat and a long term member of the DNC? NO! You are not. That would be me! I said from the very start that Joe Biden was the best candidate. And from the start you argued that I was wrong.
Biden had a stronger base than anybody, including Trump, in the Blue Wall Northern and Western swing states like Pennsylvania, Colorado, Nevada, Michigan and and Wisconsin that any Democrat would have had to win to defeat Trump. No matter how many times you say otherwise I was right and you were wrong. Are we done now?
Trump would have easily beaten any of the other candidates. Biden was the only one who could have beaten him in my opinion. I did not make up shit. Argue with yourself. Sometimes everyone is wrong and this was your time...
I do remember you being all in for Bloomberg.
How did that work out politically? You are the last person who would be picking Democratic candidates. You are not even a Democrat...
I have not mentioned anyone specific. There are millions of Ds out there and likely hundreds directly within the radar of the Ds. To claim that the very best the D party could offer for PotUS was Biden would suggest a sad state of affairs for the D party. I do not believe that is the case, but apparently you do.
So does this mean you realize that Biden is (obviously) likely not the best D to be PotUS? If not, what are you trying to say?
You are then only talking about the primary candidates . My comments have explicitly been about the D party, not just the primary candidate. Biden (outside of possibly an earlier-entering Bloomberg) was the only one of that select group who was electable. Sanders and Warren were non-starters. The others were long-shots due to their low name-recognition and low campaign backing.
So where do you find me arguing that Biden should not have been the nominee given those running ? Who was I backing ( other than Bloomberg during his blip )? The only two names that made any sense were Biden and Bloomberg and when Bloomberg self-destructed the only one left standing with any chance to win was Biden. It was obvious, no special D party credentials needed to make that call.
Then, when COVID-19 hit, Trump became the underdog.
I don't know. Are you going to make up more completely wrong shit about me?
Well at least you got that much correct.
Bloomberg self-destructed. At that point Biden was the obvious choice.
How does having a D by one's name give you special powers?
You need to buy a few vowels because you have absolutely positively made up shit. You are dead wrong. And what is really strange is that you just come out of nowhere and start flinging crap allegations at me.
Why? To what end? Just looking for fight? WTF?
My opinion was that the only two who could have beaten him were Biden and Bloomberg. When I saw how crappy Bloomberg was in debate, the only person left was Biden.
So ... obviously ... from that point on I favored Biden for the D nomination.
I do not engage in argument for argument sake. Over eighty million Americans got off their butts to vote for Biden and Harris and that is evidence enough for me that they were the best candidates. They were not who you would have picked and that makes you what?
The horrible terrible allegation I made was that you have been wrong. Deal with it...
Can the drama!
You just provided overwhelming evidence to the contrary in this thread.
That is evidence (actually proof) that they were sufficient. 'Sufficient to be elected' is not necessarily 'best for the job'. This is obvious. Why are you arguing this futile point if not to simply argue for argument sake?
The D party obviously has better people than Biden and Harris to assume these top two positions. To believe this is the very best the D party has to offer is an insult to the D party. Same goes for the R party. They have no doubt been in cognitive dissonance for four years with Trump. But somehow, Trump, by your reasoning, must be the best possible R to assume the office of PotUS. Pretty irrational reasoning IMO.
Biden has been my choice since Bloomberg fizzled. But you are correct that Harris is not my choice for VP.
No you flat out lied about my positions.
Why you chose to invent crap and start this fight is inexplicable. You and I have been agreeing on most everything regarding this election and the aftermath. What got into you to pick this bullshit fight?
Irony at its finest.
With respect, JBB, that is only evidence that they were adequate candidates to beat Trump, at a time when he was made vulnerable by Covid-19 and its effect on the economy. Had coronavirus never jumped species, we likely would be looking at a Trump second term.
Excuse me, but I was speaking to Tig about his expressed opinions about Joe Biden lo these last twelve months or so. He was not a fan. Tig argued against him almost to the end.
There were many polls of the swing states and every one of them showed that Biden was BY FAR the strongest Democratic candidate in those specific states. In most cases Trump polled stronger than the others. That in large part was why Bernie and Liiz Warren and Mayor Pete endorsed Biden.
Because they believed he was the best candidate. He won. I am not going to debate the primaries again and I am not going to go back, find and link all the now proven wrong things people turned out to have said.
My only reason for thinking Biden might be a better choice is his previous tenure as VP, and having the experience in dealing with foreign policy and matters of the WH, plus, all the many years he spent in the Senate. He has some valuable experience all around that the others did not have and in the battle to put America back on its feet, and renewing our important relationships with our allies, these experiences may be a real asset to him in that battle.
As for being the best for a President...I don't think any of our Presidents were the best of their time, they were just preferred over those who also ran. And that is the way I feel about Biden. And as for Biden, I don't think of him as the 'best' choice, I think of him as the more preferred choice by large portion of American voters.
That's just my opinion. If others don't agree with me that is their choice and right.
If you compare Biden to those running in the primary then I not only understand your comment, I agree with it.
But my comment has been that Biden is not the best person the D party could muster for PotUS. And you are correct that we likely never have the best person running for and winning the presidency. I would say, rarely are we even close.
But I do not see how anyone can look at a 78 year old Biden who is clearly not as sharp as he was when running with Obama and say that out of all the potential D candidates in the party, he is the best person for the job of PotUS.
Just do not see it.
JBB is arguing that Biden, out of those running for PotUS this year, was the most electable. On that point I agree (except I would have gone with Bloomberg if he had shown skills in debate and Town halls). So once Bloomberg was gone, Biden clearly had the best chance (of those running) to defeat Trump.
But 'most electable' is not necessarily 'best for the job'. Biden, IMO, is far from being 'best for the job' out of all D's.
JBB seems to have some alternate reality in his head about my positions. Funny, too, since one would think I know my position better than anyone else.
Argued against him? Who do you think I was arguing for then? Buy a vowel.
They believed he was the most electable! The uber objective was to defeat Trump. Electability was the number one concern. Best to serve as PotUS was secondary.
Further, again, I have always been talking about best out of all the D's, not just those running for PotUS this year. You are focused on best only out of the primary candidates.
I think the best theory in voting for Biden as the Dem candidate is his better capability of getting rid of Trump, which was/is the more important issue at the time. While Biden is of advanced age, he may still be able to steer the country back on its feel for the next President to lead America on to a better path, and become a world leader again. I doubt Biden will even think of running for a second term, but, even if the GOP do their best to throw as many road blocks in his way as possible, like they did Obama is they fully control the Senate, there is still plenty of ways Biden can help the American people, and the world, regain their trust in America.
Is there a best President? Never. Only one that is better at the job than another might be.
JMOO
Become a Democrat and your opinion about who Democrats nominate will interest me...
Everything you said is still out there to see.
You do know that there are independents (and even some Republicans) who might be considering voting for Democratic candidates on occasion, yes? When you say such things, you're biting the hands that may be helping to feed you.
That is a stupid position to hold. You do not consider anything anyone says about D politics unless they are a registered D? What an excellent way to cultivate blind partisanship.
Yes. You should go refresh your memory because you have evolved your own alternate reality.
Given all the political comments I have made this year, who in your fucked-up reality do you think I wanted to win: Biden or Trump?
Yes, the electability factor. I am confident that is the primary reason he won the nomination.
I personally feel that is also a good reason Biden chose to run. With Obama's help he appealed to many others besides the Dems. But, to me, the only thing that really mattered in this election is getting rid of Trump, and to save our country and its people. Even those who voted for Trump.
And he did do that, by gaining the trust of the American voters who wanted to see Trump gone.
To that end, here is a perfect example where I state who I am supporting and then give an honest assessment of what I see:
JR wrote an article last month about the election. He asked: " WHAT DO YOU HOPE WILL HAPPEN AFTER THE ELECTION ?"
My answer:
My guess is that you take my assessments of the unknowns underlying the Biden administration (given the Sanders and Warren factors) as arguing against Biden. I want him to win but you somehow think I am arguing against him winning because I noted a potential problem.
There is a difference between blind partisanship and objective reasoning. Some of us can deal with the entire picture: the good, the bad and that inbetween. Only seeing good in a candidate/situation and ignoring or hiding the bad is partisan blindness. It leads to crappy analysis and inferior decisions because it excludes inconvenient / uncomfortable truths.
Clearly I wanted Biden to win. But I am also willing to voice my concerns that while Biden winning eliminates the Trump problems, it likely will introduce its own set of problems. To deny that is to be profoundly naive.
Yes that is what he said. I watched the debate.
I tried to become a democrat but all the frontal lobotomy clinics have closed down.
Besides I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
I suspect that is the primary reason for most who voted for Biden.
Why not? Also, is your "decision" a political one, Gordy?
Well both Biden and Harris have plans to be the polar opposites of Trump and Pence. Of course, it should go without saying that means "the bad parts." Moreover, I am mildly alarmed that with the end of the presidential election our national news seem to have found new wars and rumors of war to tell us about! Hmm.
You people are something else. Seriously. I am just now reading this thread, and it is just more of the same. Are you and Tig a tandem now?
Trump would have won if not for covid? Based on what? Tig's analysis that he has tried to imprint on this forum for a year or more? You know the one where the great economy made Trump a shoo in before the pandemic?
Donald Trump was IMPEACHED three months before the pandemic took off in the United States. Impeached, and the case against him was essentially proven. Because of covid, the impeachment was not even mentioned during the campaign. Had there been no covid, Trump's traitorous behavior would have been a major part of the campaign.
Prior to covid, Trump never led Biden in any polls. If he did it was very briefly. So what is the basis by which you and Tig can be so sure Trump would have won? Based on what?
This is all very baffling coming from people that presumably wanted to get rid of Trump in 2020.
Why does that make Biden the best person (out of all the Ds in politics) to be D PotUS and Harris the best person to be D VP? Wouldn't another D team be the polar opposite of Trump and Pence?
Tig spent a great deal of his comments about politics on this forum letting everyone know that Trump would win if not for the covid pandemic.
We are talking about a candidate who lied to the public THOUSANDS of times. Not 20 or 50 times, thousands of times. He also was caught trying to extort something from the president of Ukraine that was solely intended to help trump's re-election.
We have looked in vain for any sustained criticism of the Trump presidency from Tig. And while that is true, he is only one of many on NT who are cut from the same cloth.
JBB, there are only a handful of actual progressives on this forum, everyone else is in a different place on the political spectrum.
Never led in any polls? Not even in the states he eventually won?
Yes, I think it likely Trump would have won. He had the advantage of incumbency and a decent economy. The impeachment seemed to have little effect on him politically, and no effect at all on support from his base.
Am I sure he'd have won? No. I think it likely.
You seem to believe that my assessment that it was likely Trump would have won means that a Trump win is the outcome I desired.
I suppose I should be accustomed to you willfully misinterpreting my views.
Seriously?
Good grief.
I was mistaken. She is eligible to run for President. I initially thought she couldn't since she is not native born. I didn't take into account her parentage. So I will retract that previous statement.
And what do you mean by my "decision being a political one?"
You dismiss the political power of a great economy and a content electorate for an incumbent?
Even with COVID-19 stressing out the entire electorate and the economy damaged, Trump was still remarkably close in the battleground states. It would not have taken much for him to have won instead of lost. If COVID-19 had not happened, you cannot imagine a great economy and a content electorate causing enough of a shift in these states to have the incumbent wind up winning??
This election wound up too close for you to claim that those major factors would have made no difference.
You are putting too much faith in the polls.
See that just speaks volumes about your blinding bias here. Presumably? You are questioning whether we wanted Trump to lose? Man partisanship can really do a number on a brain.
I'm with Sandy. I have seen Tig rip apart Trump. What alternative universe are you guys living in?
If you want to have a voice in deciding the Democratic nominee you should at least be a Democrat. That is all. As far as Biden goes I was on his team from day one. He was the best candidate because he won. I rest my case.
Your credibility is now shit with me JR. I cannot believe you typed that lie.
How many times have I noted Trump is a narcissistic asshole who makes decisions for himself at the expense of the nation?
Partisanship rots the mind.
Strawman. This has not been about wanting to have a voice in deciding the D nominee. It is about whether Biden is the best D to be the PotUS.
That is stupid. He was the best because he won?? You call that logic? Was Trump the best candidate because he won?
Biden was the most electable, as evidenced by him winning. Same with Trump. But that does not make them the best to be the PotUS. See the difference?
Some states have open primaries, so one need not be a Democrat to have a voice in determining the Democratic candidate.
Moreover, the Democratic Party needs to choose a candidate that can draw votes from non-Democrats. And DNC leaders are well aware of that fact, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.
Donald Trump has never been fit to hold office. Never. To say the economy alone would have got him re-elected is an insult to everyone who has spent four years opposing him.
You dont beat someone by publicly saying you think they will win. If Trump was a decent sort of guy who just had conservative policies, that would be one thing, but he is much more than that. And I dont mean that in a good way. Yet we have had people who say they are against him trying fairly strenuously to talk up the inevitability he would win because of "the economy" and incumbency. Give me a freaking break.
And you dismiss his obvious and long lasting unfitness to hold public office.
It has nothing to with partisanship, it has to do with common fricking sense.
We agree. I'm baffled as to why you don't seem to understand that.
You don't prevent them winning by refusing to face facts.
It does not matter how you feel JR. This is election analysis. Your feelings don't mean anything.
You never will comprehend that some of us use NT for analysis. You, it seems, have some wild notion that your incessant ravings against Trump would in some way make a difference on the election. That any analysis that looks at reality objectively will cause a shift that would give Trump the win.
That is lunacy. It is being out of touch with reality.
Where?
In most states only Democrats can vote in Democratic primaries. Nitpick to your hearts delight. Joe Biden got eighty million votes. Obviously he tried to appeal to everyone...
Some people cannot admit they were wrong.
Still arguing against Biden is silly and dumb...
Democrats choose Democratic candidates!
Not the Republicans and not independents...
You people just want to argue. So do carry on.
Where do you get these moronic notions?
Yes, try to use it. I have watched you behave irrationally for almost four years. You have devoted countless hours repeating the same mantra about Trump. What on Earth do you think you are going to accomplish? Do you really think your emotive posts would make any difference in the election?
Your rantings have been so excessive that I suspect the vast majority of members will agree that we are collectively sick of your predictable rants. That one additional benefit of Trump losing is that finally JR will STFU. (maybe)
Less emotion and more analysis would be my suggestion for you.
Tig, your high horse doesnt impress me, but maybe it impresses others. Your analysis is worth no more or less than anyone else's.
The only people who have been saying for two years that Trump was going to win were Trump sympathizers. He was behind Biden in virtually every poll since Biden announced his candidacy. You wanted Bloomberg so you talked down Biden. That didnt work out so well, did it?
Strawman. That was not the debate.
Is this the best you have now JR? A Pee Wee Herman jab? Yes, I wanted Bloomberg to win the nomination until he showed his weakness in debate and interpersonal skills. At that point I went with Biden. I wanted the best candidate to go against Trump.
I make decisions based on available information. A good practice.
So what is your complaint now? That I have the objectivity to factor in new information and change my mind?
Fifteen states have open primaries. Nine more allow non-affiliated voters to vote in primaries.
That's a lot of country where non-Dems can have a say in choosing Dem nominees. Clearly, independents have a say in choosing Dem nominees.
JBB keeps deflecting to who gets to decide the nominee. That was never the issue. He cannot admit that he made shit up and must deflect elsewhere.
Based on the fact that many were disappointed with how poorly he handled the pandemic and the resulting economic decline associated with it.
The impeachment didn't have the effect the dems were hoping for and ultimately did little to Trump politically.
And yet, Trump was aquitted.
That's been explained. Almost ad nauseum now.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that some here are either defending Trump or wanted him to remain.
There is nothing to definitively suggest otherwise.
And many people essentially gave him a pass on that.
Are you being serious? Have you not been paying attention? TiG has been quite vocal about his disdain for Trump.
That's not really the issue.
The economy is perhaps the biggest factor. A stable, thriving economy is supported and applauded by people. People become content and would not want to risk changing that. An unstable economy makes people nervous and more apt tomake a change. History has shown this too. And considering how close the election was, especially in the swing states, clearly it took a significant negative development like the downturn in the economy to tip the votes against Trump.
Yeah, he's an indecent sort of guy who had conservative policies. And that appealed to many of his supporters, regardless of his individual character.
Perhaps because some can objectively analyze the situation without getting emotional about it. A good economy and incumbency are advantages to reelection.
Given the 2016 election and reelection, many clearly did not care about that aspect.
Fortunately, they were wrong. But they weren't far off, given the election results.
Wasn't he also behind Hilary in 2016? Take polls with a grain of salt. Not as a certainty.
This is what convinced me that JR has zero credibility. There is simply no way that a regular member of this forum could hold that one can search in vain and not find criticism from me of Trump. That is so stupid of a claim I cannot imagine what value JR thinks that holds. Does he think that the members here have not observed my criticism of Trump?
I just do not see why people engage in such brain-dead tactics as making obvious lies when they are commonly known to be false and so easily disproved.
For example, look at one of my many recent replies to JR:
It is trivial to expose JR's lies. To what end does he engage in this crap?
I concur.
It boggles the mind.
Pointing out lies is always necessary. If for no other reason than to protect your own honesty and credibility.
I have no clue.
In this case it properly is what it is! All we have to go on at this point is the two people for whom fate has laid the presidency and vice-presidency upon. Trump and Pence are on their way out of the White House - having solidly lost the presidential election and a myriad of court proceedings. So far, having beaten all the competition up to and touching - Biden and Harris are "Be best."
That being said (above) alone with leaving off the bad parts of "trumpism," figures pretty dang better than unknowns about democrats who might have gotten tangled up in Trump's BS 'managerie.' After all, Biden has lived in the White House before too. Certainly, he knows people, places, and times in a political sense of how to 'use' a master User!
Biden threatened to beat Trump like a drum - and he bested Donald!
All you can hear inside the courts is "rat-tat-tat-tat-boom-boom-tat-tat."
Wow, if that comment doesn't say "I love Trump. Trump for President forever," I don't know what does. >sarc<
I could do this for hours, but I am stopping here on a rather critical comment that JR missed in his extensive search. Such bullshit from JR and JBB, it boggles the mind.
Well you know how it is TiG. If you're not proclaiming Trump to be worse than Hitler, that obviously means you're a Trump supporter. Lol
Odd is it not how often some of us must deliver our own quotes to get others to actually read them and realize they have presumed incorrectly? Even then it often does not sink in.
Yep you clearly see how this irrational game is played.
Well, it is obvious. The real question is, why is the game being played at all. The election is over, Trump lost, he'll be out in less than 2 months. You would think some here would be happy about it and not continue to obsess over Trump?
Doesn't a certain NTer we know usually "doubles down" on the BS when called out on it? This isn't much different. Some just really commit.
Yeah, I noted that earlier when JBB stood by what he wrote. Such a great rebuttal:
Oh you stand by your words? Well, now, that changes everything. I guess that doubles the validity of every word you wrote. So what you wrote cannot really be utter bullshit, it must actually be truth.
That standing by your words rebuttal is a real killer Gordy.
( Ever notice how much I despise intellectual dishonesty? )
Good point. My jaw was on the floor when I read JBB's first comment. What is the point of making demonstrably false allegations about me from, apparently, thin air? We were getting along famously for years and then out of nowhere we see the worst thing that someone can do with me: engage in intellectual dishonesty.
Bizarre.
In the context of the comment I replied to, you are plain wrong.
I didn't notice that you 'mildly objected' but that wouldn't have precluded me from using a perfectly good word.
Neither I or my comment implied that you were wrong about anything.
Why do you have an issue with the word acquiesce TiG?
Acquiesce is perfectly appropriate in the context of my question.
I do not acquiesce to anyone's control over my use of vocabulary.
Are you taking issue with me making an observation? WTF?
Again, you seem to be intentionally ignoring the comment that I replied to TiG. I was addressing the terms [labels] in that comment. Why are you attributing those 'labels' to me?
Oh and BTFW, how is one to debate 'what is done' without describing 'what is done' with some kind of 'label', much as you did in 4.1.72?
Juuuussst a little, Lol
So you understand the semantics. It should be obvious then why I do not accept that characterization as you used it with me.
I wrote that I have no interest in debating the labels you chose. I told you to go ahead and use whatever labels you wish because it is the ideas that matter, not the labels.
Note. You are arguing with me because I offered subtle objection of your characterization with a single word sentence: "Acquiese?". You cannot just take a hint but have to turn this into a full blown debate?
Last time:
The word acquiesce, per Oxford : " Accept something reluctantly but without protest. "
That language, in common usage, connotes being shown to be wrong and reluctantly giving in to a point that one had opposed.
When you present a new hypothetical situation and ask me to weigh in on it, that is not acquiescing to anything, it is evaluating or considering the new conditions you have put forth.
You do not acquiesce to anything Dulay, as evidenced by your last post.
Yes TiG, unlike many here, I only use vocabulary that I understand.
The term acquiesce is NOT a characterization TiG.
The use of the word acquiesce does NOT characterize you or your comment. Why are you trying to insist that it does?
Subtle?
You have GOT to be fucking joking TiG.
YOU came at ME for replying to sandy's comment, using the EXACT SAME terms that sandy used.
Interesting that you didn't take issue when sandy posted them.
What 'hint' is that TiG? That you wanted to pick an fight because you decided that I insulted your with vocabulary?
The first is the correct definition, the second is YOUR interpretation and NOT 'common usage' in my world, nor in Oxford.
If you want to add 'shown to be wrong' and 'giving in' to the definition, so be it, but I'm not responsible for how YOU interpret a word.
You call it whatever the fuck you want and so will I.
I acquiesce to the fact that you obviously have an issue with ME for some fucking reason.
Take a number...
You are impossible. I am done wasting my time.
The impeachment was never used in the campaign as a first line political weapon against Trump. Shortly after the impeachment the coronavirus issue ensued and that is where the emphasis was put.
Over the course of the last year or two you have repeatedly said that you thought Trump would win. People who are opposed to Trump during an election campaign don't say that. Those who are essentially indifferent to the outcome of the election might say it though.
For some strange reason you think that no one understood that Biden might not be an ideal candidate until you explained it for everyone, again and again. I hate to break it to you Tig but a lot of us understand the political situation without your explanations.
I don't doubt for a moment that you dislike and disapprove of Trump, but I also believe that you are more willing to tolerate him than others of us are. So I guess that is the point of contention.
And rightly so. Impeachment was not going to be enough (by a long shot IMO) to displace Trump's incumbency, economy and content electorate. COVID-19, coupled with Trump's downplaying for his own personal benefit, however, was sufficient. On election day, the economy was recovering but people were still struggling and were clearly stressed out about the ongoing pandemic inconveniences and worries. That is precisely the kind of dynamic that can unseat an incumbent.
Sans COVID-19 effects lingering into November, Trump might have won reelection. Biden was not a strong candidate by any stretch of the imagination and neither was Hillary. Both the D and R parties need to get their houses in order and put forth candidates that people will want to vote for vs. against.
You do not pay attention very well do you JR? I have repeatedly stated prior to COVID-19 that Trump had three major factors in his favor: incumbency, economy and a content electorate. I stated that this means the D opponent has their work cut out for them and that most of them would not be able to overcome that.
I never stated that Trump would win. I avoid trying to predict the future. I offered analysis that netted into Trump having the upper hand. Once COVID-19 hit, I factored that critical info into my analysis and concluded that Trump is now the underdog. That has been my position for this year (since about Feb).
Funny (not) how your memory twists what actually took place.
My comments were always in response to others. Unlike you, I did not seed and repeat in comments my same mantra view every day. For you (of all people) to complain that I offered my analysis multiple times must be the height of irony.
I do not suffer the delusion that providing honest analysis and opining on a social forum would impact the election in any way. So I had the luxury to discuss the good and the bad on both sides. You, in contrast, have been hyper partisan. You refused to acknowledge anything that supporters saw as good with Trump and anything bad with Biden. You jumped down the throat of people if they did not object to Trump with sufficient venom to satisfy your emotional needs.
Your seeds and comments for the past four years have been strictly one-sided and blind and you picked fights with those who were for Trump and also with those who were against Trump. Irrational and obnoxious.
But, apparently, you have no mirrors available to you.
Donald Trump NEVER had an approval rating of 50% during the entire course of his 4 year presidency. (He had an approval of 50% I think for one or two weeks ,out of the 180 or so weeks, of his term on one poll out of the many polls, a GOP favoring poll , Rassmussen). Trump never had something that approximated majority approval. He is the only US president since the advent of polling in the late 1940's to have never had 50% approval during his first term. Yet you make the assumption that he was the most likely to win the election. And you make this conclusion despite the fact that he was behind his main rival, Biden, in virtually every head to head poll taken about the two.
Why would someone tout Trump as the likely winner during a campaign where he had a poor approval rating and was trailing his main opponent in almost all the polls? It's odd.
Trump made it close because of the reaction to the "defund the police" rhetoric coming from a few people and groups purportedly representing "the left". "Defund the police" and "Black Lives Matter" play into white grievance themes which are the basis for trump's existence as a politician. Clearly a good number of people voted for Trump in 2020 who did not vote at all in 2016 ( he got 10 million more votes this time than he got last time). If you think this happened because of the good economy at the start of 2020 you are dreaming. These people came out to vote because they are opposed to "the left" and "socialism" , neither of which Joe Biden represents. But right wing media and right wing social media have a vast grip on the thoughts and emotions of these people. Which is why Trump will be around, front and center, for the foreseeable future. And by front and center I mean until he gets sick and dies, or another younger demagogue of his same sort of stature comes along and supplants him.
I am probably more of a moderate (pragmatist) than progressive. I do think that extreme "anything" should be avoided. As on either side of the spectrum, such policies (and persons) can be mocked.
Funny aside, I happened to watch HUCKABEE on TBN for a spell last evening and it was interesting to observe how he spun into 'comedy' his opening set of remarks of the happenings in democratic-progressive politics. All I could think about it is, wow, conservatives really do see liberals as from out of this world!
Democrats DESERVE This! | Huckabee
I do wonder if a true independent thinks all the categories of republicans and all the categories of democrats are raging 'joke' material on a deeper level, too!
The impeachment process was started in December 2019 and completed the following February, right before Covid really took off here. So yes, attention can be switched to Covid since the impeachment process was done and settled.
Yes, John, but he was elected. You do recognize that, right? We are talking about election dynamics, not popularity.
By 'content electorate' I do not mean 'people are happy with Donald Trump'. (I have explained this to you countless times yet you keep asking the same question as if nothing sinks in.) Rather, that means that in their daily lives they were content. (Think back at the Carter misery index; that is the idea I have presented.) They are employed, bills are being paid, their family is not suffering, etc. Contrast that now to the pandemic. In 2020, people were (are) stressed out about finances, health and the ongoing inconvenience and worry of dealing with this pandemic. The electorate is not content.
When an electorate is not content they historically seek change. When content, that bodes well for the incumbent.
Prior to COVID-19 the content electorate was an advantage for Trump. After COVID-19, the discontent electorate was a disadvantage for Trump.
You complain that I offered my analysis too much and here you are asking me to repeat myself. Well I know you will ignore whatever I write so I am not going to repeat my analysis as to why Trump, prior to COVID-19, held the advantage over any D rival and why after the emergence of the pandemic Trump became the political underdog.
That is untrue, John. As this is my group, you owe TiG an apology.
Can't agree with you here, John. I have seen TiG lay into trump on more than one occasion.
You seem to put too much stock in polls. Sure Trump's approval was never stellar. But given how close the election was, one cannot honesty say Trump didn't have a legitimate shot at reelection.
Your offering up of Senator Duckworth, whom I have no problems with-though she did not get the nomination, do you see it as a political choice? As Harris goes, she is a female, ethnic, black, (AG-CA) prosecutor, senator who clearly appealed to multiple groups—Biden counted on it occurring and it did successfully. (Smile.)
Why are you making it personal TiG?
I do have to point out that when COVID-19 (2020) became big and bolder, Joe Biden had already announced his candidacy in April 2019. In February 2020 Joe Biden mentioned beating Trump (the incumbent), and I quote, "Like a drum!" Biden planned to do this over corruption and not letting Donald Trump distract from his presidential lies and deceptions across four years by pointing the finger in Biden's direction.
Therefore, Joe Biden had a reason and a plan which only became more (poll) focused and more clear-eyed as Covid-19 came aboard and became 2020 "big-foot" to take down a dunce-president. We all had been watch'n and listening to Donald Trump run down our nation, the community of nations, and herding people away unceremoniously for years. Plus, the Republican Party had a new 'thing' - organized Never Trumpers morphed into The Lincoln Project.
It is my opinion that, if for some reason Trump does win in 2024 he will try to become the Dictator of America so that he will never have to leave the WH for the rest of his life, or, when he is over thrown. At least that is likely his thinking and objective for his running again.
Heh...if he acts this way in losing in 2020, I can only imagine what he would do if he lost again by such a margin in 2024.
Just hope that the economy is okay. If so, Trump will not have a chance. Also, I doubt he will run again. I do not think he was seriously trying to be PotUS in 2016. He will have moved on to some other gig by then and would not want to chance being a two time loser. His being fired is probably more than his ego can take as it is.
That is my thought as well. Being made a 'loser' once is more than he can tolerate, as can be seen by his current behavior, but, the change of being made a 'loser' for a second time would be more than he could tolerate mentally and emotionally. So as you say, he is unlikely to run the second time.
Although, he just might be willing to risk it for a second chance to win. He is very predictable in some ways, and yet very unpredictable in others. I guess we will see when the time comes.
I have a feeling he'll be either in a prison in New York, or trying really hard not to be in a prison in New York.
I am sure he has a few years of lawsuits ahead of him.
I agree sandy. He is facing a no win situation, and the loss of so many court cases should be a candle in the dark of what he may face ahead.
I am (really) encouraged that rule of law works in conservative courts and in republican capitals. Something is wrong with republican-Washington, D.C. The courts are standing up and making life yet coherent. (Whispers: "Thank you, courts.)
Much has been made of the minority vote and why or who they voted for. Perhaps take a look at how whites voted. This election cycle whites voted for Trump by a 57/42% margin.
Picking a VP or any other position is based on how they will be accepted or if they will appeal to certain voting groups.
Trump picked Pence for the evangelical vote and Biden picked Harris to appeal to the minority community. That's how it goes in the US.
Was Harris the best pick, I don't know at this point the next year or so will determine if she was or wasn't.
Totally agree Kavika. I guess we will just have to wait and see.
Of course world leaders are happy. They see the great bit teat that they can suck off of and have us spend while they just reap the benefits. Who wouldn't be happy with that deal?
I know, isn't it amazing how Trump was able to put those darn foreign countries in their place with his trade war? Oh, wait our trade deficit is larger this year than in 2019. It must be the ''Art of the Deal'' on steroids. When you add in the bailout to the farmers and the billions in tariffs that US companies had to pay it's even worse.
Sure, do nothing and hope the problem goes away.
Don't worry, Joe will have our supposed "friends" and "allies" happy again. Everything will go back to the way it was. Iran will be able to develop their nukes in peace- while reaping the benefits of US trade. China will latch on to the "Green New Deal"; because Joe can talk about using US companies for Green Tech; but they can't compete with the Chinese labor costs, governmental subsidies, or the cost of materials. NATO will be thrilled to cut their payments down- the US pit bull will be back on their leash and doing their bidding. Russia will get the short end of the stick- until Joe decides they are no longer a useful political tool; and decides it is time to play nice.
Just hope he doesn't continue the Establishment trend of expanding or starting any new military conflicts. With his statements about Syria- it doesn't look good.
Tump thought he was doing something but alas, he fucked it up to the core.
The rest of your comment is mostly speculation and bullshit. Keep up the good work,
And negative.