Liberals Are Amazed That Campus Free Speech Outrage Gets So Much Attention. Here's Why It Matters.
MSNBC's Chris Hayes is frequently amazed ; today he is amazed that free speech controversies on college campuses receive so much attention from conservative media.
The reason for this, he explains , is that the right wing holds tremendous power—control of the White House, Congress, the Supreme Court, and state and local government—but its "emotional fuel is grievance and persecution," and so conservatives must draw attention to the one place where they can play the victim: Berkeley.
"You'd think liberal arts undergrads had the nuclear codes," Hayes tweeted Tuesday night.
Is the right's obsession with the campus culture wars partly explained by the conservative media's continued interest in feeding an outrage-hungry base? Of course.
At the same time, it's wrong to say that this fixation on the current state of higher education in America is unwarranted. Liberal arts undergrads may not have the nuclear codes, but they are spending lots of money and years of their lives in pursuit of the most prestigious credentials in the world—the college diploma—and the power it buys. The graduates of Berkeley, and Middlebury, and Michigan, and Mizzou, and a hundred other institutions enduring similar moments of illiberalism, will go on to become business leaders and political leaders and activists and inventors and doctors and lawyers and artists and writers. They don't have their fingers on a button that could destroy the world all at once, but their ideas do matter, and will shape society in the long run.
The question is this: do we want the society of the future—the one built by Berkeley graduates—to reflect a sustained commitment to free speech and other liberal, Enlightenment norms, or not? If the answer is yes , then what happens at Berkeley should matter, for liberals like Chris Hayes as well as for conservatives.
The saddest thing about what's happening at Berkeley is that a lot of people currently invested in the project of higher education have come to believe the answer is no . Take Ulrich Baer, a vice provost and professor of comparative literature at New York University, who recently penned an article, "What 'Snowflakes' Get Right About Free Speech," for The New York Times. They are right, Baer argues, to regard offensive speech as an invalidation of their own humanity, and as such, beyond the pale of acceptable discourse:
The recent student demonstrations at Auburn against Spencer's visit — as well as protests on other campuses against Charles Murray, Milo Yiannopoulos and others — should be understood as an attempt to ensure the conditions of free speech for a greater group of people, rather than censorship. Liberal free-speech advocates rush to point out that the views of these individuals must be heard first to be rejected. But this is not the case. Universities invite speakers not chiefly to present otherwise unavailable discoveries, but to present to the public views they have presented elsewhere. When those views invalidate the humanity of some people, they restrict speech as a public good.
This view is wrong and dangerous. Free speech isn't a public good: it's an individual right. Expressing views that "invalidate the humanity of some people" does precisely that: it invalidates the humanity of some people. That may be wrong and legitimately hurtful for those people, but it does not restrict their speech. Baer, in fact, is turning the definition of free speech inside out. He is claiming that free speech is merely the right to not feel invalidated—a right that implies censorship is justified if done in order to safeguard the feelings of others. This isn't a "right," and it certainly isn't free speech.
Baer continues, "in politics, the parameters of public speech must be continually redrawn to accommodate those who previously had no standing… Free-speech protections — not only but especially in universities, which aim to educate students in how to belong to various communities — should not mean that someone's humanity, or their right to participate in political speech as political agents, can be freely attacked, demeaned or questioned."
But the purpose of the First Amendment, and norms of free speech more generally, is to prevent the authorities from re-drawing the parameters relating to speech, since they cannot be trusted to do so fairly. Indeed, Baer's own remarks demonstrate how the people who wish to re-draw speech parameters will always be tempted to do so in a manner that disadvantages their enemies. For instance, Baer writes that "free speech protections… should not mean that someone's [] right to participate in political speech and political agents, can be freely attacked." And yet, in his article, he is attempting to craft a definition of free speech that obligates attacks on certain people's right to participate in political speech: Charles Murray, Ann Coulter, etc. This is the hypocrisy of those who would damage the concept of free speech in order to protect what they describe as the "humanity" of offended people. Invariably, the humanity of the disfavored people—like Coulter—doesn't seem to matter to them.
Nor does it seem to matter that there are students who want to hear from Coulter and Murray. A private organization that makes no guarantees about free speech to its members should have the right to discriminate against conservative students and conservative speakers. But Berkeley is a public institution, and if it refuses to defend speech and opportunity on an equal basis for all the members of its community, it is unworthy of the taxpayer's generous support.
As for "snowflakes," there's no question that the term is overused —often by people who are at least as easily offended as the students they're mocking. But some critics of these students spend a great deal of time writing about what's happening on campus because they actually take snowflakes seriously. The ideas of liberal arts undergrads matter. They wield tremendous power on campus, and they will continue to wield tremendous power after they graduate.
http://reason.com/blog/2017/04/25/liberals-are-amazed-that-campus-free-spe
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When those views invalidate the humanity of some people, they restrict speech as a public good.
If I let someone elses speech invalidate my humanity, I have a very weak sense of my own humanity.
It is past time to put their big girl panties on and get on with adulting.
They wield tremendous power on campus,
Yes
and they will continue to wield tremendous power after they graduate.
No
I don't see how some of these people will graduate. When do they ever go to class or study? Oh, that's right, they are being taught by Liberal Professors who are out there with them. They must get credit for these protests in their courses. I don't condemn protesting, but protesting to the extent of silencing is something else. Destruction and harming others is out of the question as well.
Most students aren't involved in these protest. Most are there trying to get an education. The latest demonstration at Berkley was peaceful. Guess Anifa thought twice after the last beating they received, but they have an upcoming protest in NY soon. They're probably organizing for that instead.
I don't see how some of these people will graduate.
Graduate? Fuck Six under the current government will they even have function-able world to graduate in to??? This is the most self destructive government in American history! Two fucking words! Steve Bannon! Two fucking more. Steve Miller! How about Mike Flynn? Or Carter Page? They seem determined to Destroy everything and start all over again. In some ways that would be fine. Looks fucking fantastic ON FUCKING PAPER YOU KNOW! But what about all of the millions of people who will die or fucked out doing it? This is NOT 17-fucking-76 you know!
You and yours need to stop fantasizing and if you would all pull your heads out of your assholes ! There is a real world out here that needs to be dealt with and the rest of us would appreciate it if you would all out of your assholes and help out, because we can't fix it alone! So why the fuck don't you REALLY pull your weight instead of just mouthing off, complaining and bitching! Grab a hold of a fucking rope and PULL MOTHERFUCKER!
or just be a worthless cunt who whines....
Randy,
The way for profit schools are now (put you in debt for the rest of your life for a liberal arts degree that won't find you a job) I honestly believe you are better off listening to Mike Rowe and learn a trade. I went to a trade school got in the up and coming field of Barcoding and I make quite a bit more than 28 of my friends that went to college (some of whom are still paying it off) except 3. Out of the three only one makes substantially more than me. I recently started my own company selling used equipment on the side and I am catching up to him.
The point is that for profit colleges are not about education any more but profit, and they are churning out a higher percentage of graduates with useless degrees than the percentage that gain a degree that will likely gain them unemployment. Sorry but trying to blame this on Trump is as ridiculous as your hyperbole on jobs.
Randy,
That comment, though not a CoC violation is kind of OD in cursing. Please keep it down a bit so that it doesn't escalate.
I agree Perrie that I could have chosen my words better and for that I apologize to you, but the sentiment remains the same.
Yea Randy dear, we wouldn't want anyone to get the idea you were calling another member a motherfucker or a worthless cunt now, would we? You don't have to worry. I'm only responding here to comfort you in your distress.
Oh, by the way, I've been pulling my weight all day and just arrived home about an hour ago. What about you? LOL
I have been worrying all day and on and off the phone with my baby sister. My step-mother Marsha had a heart problem yesterday (Thursday) and was taken to the ER at Grand Rapids Metro South Hospital in Wyoming Michigan. She felt uncomfortable and sick, so Cheri Lynn took her to a local Urgent Care and her heartbeat was 182 beats a minute. One does not have to be a medical expert to know that is bad. She still in the hospital and was in in the Cardiac ICU while they try to get her heart rate better and this after noon it is looking much better and she is in a regular room and wanting to go home. She is the woman, starting when I was a small monster just come out of 4 mouths of beatings and rape (that I told no one about, but became really withdrawn instead) at the age of 8, along with my 3 small sisters monster taught me discipline, how to use a fork, knife and spoon instead of my hands. How to say yes sir and yes mam and yes miss and please and thank you, how to hold a door for a lady and how to be a decent human being. No one else in my life contributed more into shaping me into who I am now. When I was 17 and failed my entrance physical for the Air Force because I was 105lbs and needed to be 110lbs she is the one I turned to. She stuffed me with beef ad fatty foods and malts and bananas until I put on 6lbs and 6 weeks later I was back in Detroit and the only thing I had to do there (since I had already passed everything else with flying colors Weeks before) was to hit that weight and I weighed in at 111 and 1/4lbs. I was sworn into the Ready Reserve that day and left for Lackland AFB (and my dream) the following Friday.
So no, I was not "carrying my weight" and I never do according to your lying, bullshit cynical standard. But you know what? You may have been carrying your weight, but you were not carrying one fucking ounce of mine! I put in a full time job since was 15 and worked part time since I was 13 splitting wood for the wood burning furnace of F. Moorehead and Sons Farm Supply in Hopkins Michigan for 50 cents an hour in 1969. That doesn't include the time I spent in the orchards picking cherries, apples and pears or helping Lynn Schwartz milk his cows (and I was terrified of cows! (still am)). In short I worked my ass off for all of my life including 4 years of active duty serving my country in the United States Air Force as a Computer Operator at the 321st SMW at Grand Forks AFB, North Dakota and about 12 years later I worked 2 years as an EMT on a rescue Squad for Rural-Metro Fire Department in Sun City, Arizona just because I wanted to know what it felt like (it felt scary, but satisfying in a way that can not be described).
So you know what six? I have pulled my fucking weight and I have paid my fucking taxes and I have paid my FICA out of ever pay check for more then 35 years and I have EARNED the right to help because I am now sick and I am NOT taking any of your fucking money, I am just getting well earned payback and if you don't get that, then you had better hope you don't get sick an need payback too.
I'm sorry to hear about your mother or stepmother Randy and hope she is much better today. I have no control over anything going on in your life and mine has been pretty busy.
"But you know what? You may have been carrying your weight, but you were not carrying one fucking ounce of mine!"
You're the one who called him out about pulling his own weight in your first comment, Randy.
Oh, by the way, I've been pulling my weight all day and just arrived home about an hour ago. What about you? LOL
What is wrong with you? I've never seen you be so cruel as to make light of someone's illness, and then laugh about it. I've seen it from others here who enjoy that kind of thing, but not from you. I've always thought of you as one of the good guys. Please tell me I'm not wrong.
You are mistaken Sister. I never made lite of of Randy's step mother's sickness.
The best thing I can say is look at the time of the comments.
#1 I made a comment about how do the students even graduate? Even though I never even mentioned Randy, he flew off the handle and basically called me a mother fucker and worthless cunt. Told me to grab a rope and pull my weight.
#2 Then Perrie told him to cool it and he apologized to her.
#3 At that point in time he hadn't even mentioned his sick stepmother, so I made my sarcastic comment because everyone should have known his comment to me without provocation was a COC violation or at the very least skirting the COC even though Perrie obviously saw it differently.
#4 Then Randy goes into this long drawn out history of his life and mentions his sick stepmother.
#5 I tell him I'm sorry to hear about her illness and hope she is doing better.
#6 I'm not a mind reader. I don't know what is troubling someone and why he jumped down on me when I didn't even say anything remotely about or to him.
#7 But the comment you are referring to came before Randy said anything about his sick stepmother.
#8 You know I saw his initial comment to me and ignored it until I read Perrie's comment later. I guess she didn't notice how long I had ignored it and felt compelled to comment about it, since it was getting iradic.
#9 And lasty, I would never do what you have mistakenly thought I did and I still hope his stepmother is doing much better.
If I deserve it, I'll eat it, but not on this one Sister. I'm innocent.
She thinks you made a shot at me not pulling my weight because I'm sick and can't work. I thank her for that.
As for my step-mother she didn't get out of the hospital because her heart is till too unstable and according to my baby sister her lungs sound "juncky" whatever the hell that means. I know she's old and going to die sometime, but all I can see of her is her telling me how to be. How to act. How to say the right thing. I was so far in deep of myself that I was unreachable, but I responded to her directions. My sisters hated her discipline. Her structure after us having none for all of our lives. We would literally steal food off each others plates with our hands. We would grab food out of the bowls as soon as it was put on the table with our hands. We didn't know any better. Eating was competition, like pack animals to get as much as we could. Marsha would not tolerate that. My sisters rebelled and fought her and told our dad when we saw him on Saturday morning and we were hurt when he just turned it back over to her. We were scared of this stiff, hard, back-boned Dutch (her maiden name was DeBoer) form of life, but I was so sore that anything was better then what I had had. I bought into it at once. It was like basic training years later. I ate up what she had to teach.
She is sick and I hope she does not die now. My baby sister gave her my love and thanks for all she did for me, but I can never thank her enough. If not for her hard firmness toward me as a child at the exact time I needed it, I would have fallen apart into an unrecognizable mess. I don't want her to die now because I need to tell her what she meant to me and how she changed my life and made me more then I could have ever made of myself. I hope I don't miss this chance.
I got angry and I am sorry Six
You said this to Randy:
Oh, by the way, I've been pulling my weight all day and just arrived home about an hour ago. What about you? LOL
If ridicule wasn't your intent, then I apologize. But I've seen the 'I've been pulling my weight, what about you?' comment directed at Randy from three other community members with whom you spend a fair amount of cyber-time. It's difficult to see that as merely a coincidence, and it's not likely you were making the comment in response to his mother's medical condition.
Randy has been open and honest about his illness, and on this site, that takes balls the size of Texas. It deserves at least a modicum of respect, not a bitch-slap and a giggle. But, as I previously stated, if I misunderstood your comment, I apologize.
I thank Sister for jumping to my defense and it is not altogether un-warented. While I don't think that Six was attacking me in this case, it has happened in the past. There have been times when people have made smart-assed remarks about the fact that I am on Social Security Disability due to a mental Illness as if that means I have found some sort of loophole or that I am gaming the system in some manner. I can understand that to some extent. I mean a mental illness is hard to pin down. If my legs were paralyzed then there would be no argument. However to have part of my mind paralyzed or not working properly is not obvious to see so I can see how some people would think that a person who is mentally ill might be faking it and the problem is that some people do fake it. However one of the things that is so easily faked is mental illness and that it why it is one of the things that is so much scrutinized by the Social Security system.
To get a Social Security Disability claim approved for a mental illness is probably the most difficult process of all. They are used to all of the games. They are used to the people whose unemployment benefits just suddenly run out so now they are suddenly "hearing voices" or are suicidal and it just doesn't work like that. The paper trail of my mental illness stretches back more then 35 years of therapy and hospitalizations and counseling and drugs. Hell even I didn't see the pattern until I put it all together for my claim. Less then 30% of all claims for Social Security Disability get approved the first time and far fewer of those that are mental illness claims do. Mental illness is simply too hard to pin down to approve in the vast majority of cases. Most of the time you have to go in front of a psychiatric board to see if you are faking. In my case that didn't happen. In my case I submitted my claim, with the fax numbers (look them up online) to every therapist and psychiatric ficlity I had ever been to in my life and signed a release form for Social Security to have all access to an and all of my private information and then, after about 6 months, they called me and told me I was approved.
So yes, some people think that I am faking it or taking the system for a ride, but you know before I went on Disability I was making more the $60,000 a year. Now I get about $1500 a month and half of that goes to pay old back child support and I give the rest to my wife for bills. Guess I'm really taking the system for a ride, huh? Damn I wish I could work again.
Randy has been open and honest about his illness, and on this site, that takes balls the size of Texas. It deserves at least a modicum of respect, not a bitch-slap and a giggle. But, as I previously stated, if I misunderstood your comment, I apologize.
OK, let's try to clean the air as best as can be done. I may come across in a bad light at first, but I intend to end, maybe not this comment, but by the time I've finished here and responded to your comments Sister and Randy's, I hope we can come to mutual understanding a respect for each other.
Randy attacked me, in my opinion quite viciously and has done this several times as of late with this skirting the COC name calling. I took the bait.
I know Randy has balls bigger than the state of Texas and far bigger than mine. I'm not one to expose the troubles in my life and I don't see many of the rest of us willing to put their lives out there for everyone to see. I have respect and ridicule for such actions. I respect him for his honesty in putting his feelings on the chopping block and I ridicule, maybe that isn't the proper word, but I just don't think using your disability as an excuse to be free to criticize others and not expect a reaction from others is leaning a little to much on your disability and relying on sympathy from others to defend you once you are attacked.
Remember Flameaway opened himself up to all of us. If you don't remember him, then ask someone or me in private who he was. Well, even though he confessed and tried to be accepted, he had given anyone disagreeing with him ammo to use against him, I personally think he should have not divulged this information to the world.
Of course Randy's situation isn't anything like Flame's. Randy should have kept his mouth shut, in my opinion. His business is his business and none of our business. We have several people who wind up like tight rubber bands and eventually melt down. I'm sorry to say I've participated in this same sort of activity as well.
I'll tell you this, after driving a total of 1827 miles since last Sunday morning until I arrived home last night or this morning (Sun) at 12am, fighting traffic and many other stressing situations, I'll take this opportunity to tell Randy, even though I understand you have problems, the rest of us also have things to deal with in our lives and if you can't stand the heat, then stay out of the fire.
Now I know that sounded cold and seemed like I don't care about you, I do. My comment wasn't directed to your stepmother, but you. I should have not done that. I should have let you rant and ignored it, but I'm human as well and fail short of perfection in my decision to ask what you had done and it didn't have to have anything to do with your disability.
I think I'll just use this comment to do my rant if you will and say I was wrong in even saying anything detrimental under the circumstances by taking something Randy said so seriously to even react to it when he is so intense as he was in his comment to me. This is not to criticize Randy or put him down in some way. Randy is in my opinion one of the most open people I know and innocent in so many ways in trusting others to allow him to express himself freely.
My initial comment after Perrie's comment wasn't aimed at his disability he has exposed to all of us. I knew he hadn't done anything that I could see except spend his day and half the night on here and most of the week and to tell me to get my head out of my ass and pull the rope explicit or be a explicit doesn't have anything to do with his entire life history. My comment was stupid to not expect a repercussion for being the meanie who attacked Randy.
Now for the end of this comment and this is in response to all comments about this situation including Randy's apology to me. I apologize to you Randy as well and am sorry in some ways it went this far, but maybe it is for the best as we should understand each other and realize I am truly sympathetic toward you for all the things you have been through, your current mental status and the sickness of the one person who you felt has been the biggest inspiration in your life to make it better, starting when you were a monster child.
You probably didn't care too much for her at the time, but looking back you can see there are more than one way to help someone and you have decided, rightfully so in my opinion, she may have been tough, but you realize today what she did was beneficial to your future.
I would suggest you try and recognize when these times you are experiencing elevated mental anxiety and look for ways to overcome it. Let me tell you, it may be here today, but I've found it is better to stay busy doing something else, at least for short periods of time that require you to keep your mind active in something more positive than arguing politics.
Moderate exercise is one option, which reminds me, I have to cut my grass. Even though it is Sunday and I'll probably go straight to hell for doing it, at least I'll leave a mowed lawn behind. They can say, "He was a real asshole, but at least he cut his grass".
We all tend to say and do things in impassioned moments or even over extended periods of time; as I tended to argue before grievance officers and arbitrators, "you can't put the toothpaste back into the tube or unring the bell."
While metaphorically true, if in our careless, thoughtless, unfeeling, actions and words, we have hopefully done no permanent, irreconciliable damage, we can try to make amends by way of sincere apologies and an absence of future such transgressions.
As much as I have benefitted in careers involving confrontation and politics, and, while I like a heated debate, I often regret in hind sight, the unintended bad feelings that often result.
I am a "facts matter" guy, but I also a "feelings matter" person as well. Sometimes the two are in conflict, so, if in conveying some facts, I did so in an undiplomatic way squeeze the toothpaste tube too hard or rang the bell too loudly ... I sincerely apologize.
Might I casually suggest group therapy for a few here? It's suppose to be a fun place isn't it?
Might I casually suggest group therapy for a few here? It's suppose to be a fun place isn't it?
Perhaps they didn't have a good night's sleep-- that can make someone very irritable . . .
Maybe some of these people should try "My Pillow" ?
(The ads on TV claim it really works!)
The reaction to flameaway's openness and honesty was so "inflamed" it made even a person named flameaway quit the site. He made the mistake of admitting and apologizing for his wrongdoing here. I learned long ago when I was in recovery that it is a giant step towards recovery to be open and honest and forthright about experiences in your life that led you to some kind of disaster, and I commended flameaway for doing that, but the tight-ass unforgiving holier-than-thou members on this site forced him out.
I thought he was banned.
The reaction to flameaway's openness and honesty was so "inflamed" it made even a person named flameaway quit the site. He made the mistake of admitting and apologizing for his wrongdoing here. I learned long ago when I was in recovery that it is a giant step towards recovery to be open and honest and forthright about experiences in your life that led you to some kind of disaster, and I commended flameaway for doing that, but the tight-ass unforgiving holier-than-thou members on this site forced him out.
Make no mistake, dear. He didn't quit, nor was he chased away. He was banned. And the unforgiving, holier-than-thou member that had him banned, was BF.
Sister Mary,
BF didn't run Flame off the site. Flame posted all of BF private informations including home address, work address, and phone numbers. That doesn't fly here. I took it down immediately and banned him. BF, didn't even had to get me, although he was totally freaked.
Oh. I wasn't aware of that. My bad.
I realize that, Perrie. I truly wasn't implying anything other than flame was banned for legitimate reasons, which were perpetrated against a member of whom Buzz thinks very highly. I apologize for my ambiguity.
No apology necessary Good sister. It's just often things are forgotten, and I keep a record of all events of importance here.
On the other hand, Buzz's reaction isn't shocking to me. Not everyone knows the kind acts that people do behind the scenes. We have several members who went far and beyond internet friendship and I find that kind of refreshing.
Make no mistake, dear. He didn't quit, nor was he chased away. He was banned. And the unforgiving, holier-than-thou member that had him banned, was BF.
Flameaway was one of the sleaziest. most dishonest people I've ever met on the Internet. And I have to admit I did what I could to get rid of him...(although it might have not been apparent).
You could call Randy's comment off topic, though only the author can really make that call. The comment itself seemed almost to be a flash of Tourette's Syndrome. Lots of stuff needs fixing. This article is about one of those things. I don't recall it being a diatribe about either side of what is going in in Washington D.C. right now. BTW, I was there last week, visiting various offices in the Senate and the House, both Democrat and Republican and for the first time in years, the staffers seemed optimistic about the direction government is going. Of course they don't make decisions, but then again, they control what their bosses see and how they see it.
The deciding factor here was about public safety. The campus had a well founded belief that members of the violent, democratic party left, would cause a riot if Coulter gave her speech, as they have done at other events.
I can't stand Coulter but the right for free speech is sacrosanct to me. It shows he how utterly low the democrats have sunk.
In the end Coulter canceled her speech herself so she would have a talking point on TV and the radio programs. She is a phony. hypocritical media whore.
Ann Coulter isn't the issue here. The issue was the reaction to the fact that she was going to speak, and the destruction of the First Amendment.
That first amendment thing only seems to work if you are saying what liberals want to hear.
Randy's posturing on the subject supports this point.
Exactly. Free speech is only allowed to the progressive left. Anyone else try it and they get deluged by angry therapy needing snowflakes.
Buzz, you are right on here.
Maybe because I'm a Canadian.
"In the end Coulter canceled her speech herself so she would have a talking point on TV and the radio programs. She is a phony. hypocritical media whore."
She cancelled the speech because unlike liberals, she abhors the use of physical violence to get ones way.
Seems the right wingers don't want to fess up when one of theirs commits a violent act against ''liberals''.
Case in point KY...RW attacks two female students eating lunch with a machete because they were liberals.
Washington state. Two RW shooting and pepper spraying ''liberals'' at a Milo gathering.
Yup, those peaceful RW's never commit any violent acts.
Seems that these thugs didn't abhor violence at all.
It shows he how utterly low the democrats have sunk.
It has very little to do with "Democrats"
It has everything to do with the pathetic democratic party who have sunk to the same lows as the republicans. Not all liberals and progressives are democrats and absolutely reject the democratic party's inhuman warmongering.
Yet the vast majority of them vote for Democrats so they really aren't any different. Just look at how few of them voted for third party candidates.
Not after this last election. Many are completely disgruntled at the parties warmongering corporate ways. It is just as corrupt as the republicans. Look at how well Bernie Sanders did. So far they have been absolutely ineffective against Trump. All talk, no action.
The duopoly called the Republicrat party has to go.
The right wing of America is slowly but surely being reduced to constantly complaining about political correctness as if it were the major ill in this society and this world. I find that bizarre.
It IS a major ill in this society and that is why most find it that way. I find it bizarre you don't. Bizarre.....but not surprising.
It IS a major ill in this society
Nonsense. It is entertainment and little more.
It has everything to do with the pathetic democratic party who have sunk to the same lows as the republicans. Not all liberals and progressives are democrats and absolutely reject the democratic party's inhuman warmongering.
Your comment was very prescient! Check this out:
Warren Calls Obama’s Message Out Of Touch With Everyday Americans
Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., criticized former President Barack Obama for supposedly running into a common dilemma that afflicts politicians of both parties — losing touch with the average American.
Warren delivered her critique during an interview, published Monday, in which she assessed what went wrong for the Democratic Party in the 2016 election.
She said that regular people feel alienated when Obama talks about how wonderful the economy is doing when this does not correspond with their daily lives.
(Its HERE)
It has everything to do with democrats...
It's not just fear of Ann Coulter. Portland had to cancel it's Rose Parade because progressives threatened to physically assault the local Republican group for daring to march in the parade.
I'm waiting to see what the liberals on NT have to say about that.
I guess the liberals have nothing to say about their people destroying the culture of America. Think of all the disappointed little kids. Next thing the bastards will do is cause the cancellation of the Santa Claus parade.
The rising terrorist faction among liberals is alarming.
Just ask John. It's all noting but in the mind of people in the right. Nothing more than that. I wonder if his comments were removed every time he made them (by someone on the right) if he would feel the same way?
Get your Antifa label pin now.....
Progressive fascists think they can use threats and violence to shut us up and then come here to mock us when we complain about their behavior because they want us to focus on their other issues.
From the linked article:
" … the right wing holds tremendous power—control of the White House, Congress, the Supreme Court, and state and local government—but its "emotional fuel is grievance and persecution," and so conservatives must draw attention to the one place where they can play the victim … "
ANTIFA is NOT A LIBERAL GROUP … it believes in anarchy.
ANARCHY: state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority: he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy .
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
Consequently, IT IS MORE LIKE A RIGHT-WING/REPUBLICAN/TEA PARTY-entity ideology of LESS OR SMALLER GOVERNMENT!
Of course, Republicans profess the ideology HYPOCRITICALLY!
Republicans are continuously talking about the need for smaller government, yet their actions show otherwise...
In 2014, the Supreme Court ruled abortions a legal medical procedure. Since then, 73 abortions clinics have been closed in Republican led states. Because of court orders, a few were allowed to reopen.* Is this governance of women’s bodies creating smaller government...or are our legislatures saying they know more about medical decisions than patients and their doctors?
These same Republicans who say they value life also desire to go to war with or without provocation, want to grow our prison system rather than reform it, and encourage the sale of larger, more powerful guns. Why do they only vote pro-life when women’s rights are involved?
Republicans believe that smaller government means lower taxes on millionaires and fewer regulations on big corporations. The result: There wouldn’t be enough money to fund social programs they want to dismantle like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
While Congress pushes for more tax breaks to benefit the wealthy and more funding for wars and military operations, they also feel compelled to tell others how to spend their money even though they can’t balance their own budget. Governor Brownback signed a law that tells welfare recipients they can’t get their nails done, go on a cruise, or go to the movies with the money received from the government. Ironically, there are no rules restricting the purchase of guns and ammunition to these welfare recipients.
When Denton, Texas citizens voted to ban fracking in their city, Governor Greg Abbott created a law prohibiting city’s from banning fracking. Talk about government overreach.
Even though Florida is the state most in danger from global warming, officials at Florida’s EPA were ordered not to use global warming or climate change in any official communications, emails, or reports, affecting 3,200 employees.** I thought in America we were guaranteed Freedom of Speech by our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Why are the rights in Florida different?
Our Founding Fathers were also very clear on two other points: Separation of church and state and everyone’s right to practice their religious views as they wished. So why do Republicans want religion included in classroom core curriculum?
Mike Huckabee made it clear during his announcement for president in 2016 that he favors a theology over a democracy. He believes that schools should resemble churches delivering the gospel, rather than education and exchange of academic ideas. He opposes both women’s rights and same sex marriage. His current book’s title: God, Guns, Grits, and Gravy, communicates his beliefs and priorities.
Ted Cruz, who made his announcement for President at Liberty University, an evangelical school founded by Jerry Falwell, also believes that religion should be the basis for our government.
Voters need to look at each candidate’s party platform, priorities, and the way they have voted in the past. Voters need to vote for what is best for them and the country, rather than following a party because of past loyalties and ideologies that were part of the 50s. We are in 2015, and our legislators need to pass laws that address our current issues and challenges, and prepare America for the future.
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Yeah! I copied and pasted it … otherwise, the zeal-without-knowledge parrots would never see the light of day; 'Course the only thing they'll deal with is how I got it to this thread.
FACTS are a bitch!
Antifa is an organized radical left movement that supports socialism. They aren't anarchists. They are your fellow travelers.
You are correct in that they are not anarchists. However; they are not necessarily socialist, they are authoritarians. More in line with the alt-right and brownshirts than you would care to admit.
They are anticapitalist. That doesn't sound like the right. They claim to fight facism. That doesn't sound authoritarian.
Nice try little buddy, but you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.
My grandson claims I can trust him with certain items. His actions show otherwise.
Which do I rely upon, his claims or his actions?
I trust their actions, which involve suppressing speech on th right. Little buddy. Making up.a motivation that they neither espouse nor demonstrate is silly.
I trust their actions,
Then why list their claims that you make no attempt to deny, but wish to ascribe to others?
Their actions, to me, demonstrate that their motivation is authoritarian and in line with the brownshirt mentality. I have no doubt that they would suppress the speech of anyone who did not agree with their every action, whatever that may be. Doesn't sound particularly liberal to me.
Before you point fingers at those who suppress speech, it is the Republicans who suppress the vote via phony "voter ID" laws while simultaneously giving corporations "person" status so that "money can equal speech."
In practice, it's Republicans who restrict expression ... calling all media but their own shill outlets "fake" and the rest as "the enemy."
The current Republican-controlled Congress has kept many a bill from a vote and a SCOTUS nominee from being considered.
There are numerous ways to block speech and Republicans are the worst offenders, and at levels that prevent the most Americans from having those they elect shit or get off the pot.
Broad brush pronouncements and demagoguery don't prove anything other than the fact that those who use them in place of specifics ... cannot viably make their case.
"...it is the Republicans who suppress the vote via phony "voter ID" laws while simultaneously giving corporations "person" status so that "money can equal speech.""
That's a lot of falsehood in one paragraph. The Constitution does not give voting rights to noncitizens, and SCOTUS simply upheld the law. That was unusually weak from you.
That's a lot of falsehood in one paragraph. The Constitution does not give voting rights to noncitizens, and SCOTUS simply upheld the law. That was unusually weak from you.
You imply that I lied while you either have no clue about the realities, or, can't rebut what you don't want to hear so attack me instead.
There is virtually no voter fraud in America generally … and while the Constitution does not give voting rights to non-citizens,
The Fifteenth Amendment ( Amendment XV ) to the United States Constitution prohibits the federal and state governments from denying a citizen the right to vote based on that citizen's " race , color , or previous condition of servitude". It was ratified on February 3, 1870, as the third and last of the Reconstruction Amendments .
And …