Opinion: After baseball attack, the hate in politics has got to go!

Can we, as NT members, do it?  Can we disagree without being disagreeable?  This is our country.  We may have different viewpoints as to how to move forward, but move forward, we must.  Can we, here on NT, have the wisdom and the courage to treat each other respectfully and to lower our hate quotient towards each other?  Can we discuss, rather than blame?  Can we share our views without being mean to each other?  Can we behave as adults?

I think we can.

Great article Dowser and I have to agree with your sentiments. I would hope that we as members and a community can agree to be respectful. There is never a reason to be mean. We should act as if we were in public. 

Amen to that!  

It's an admirable thought, Dowser.  I hope it reaches out to everyone and they at least think about it a bit.  I will.

Thanks, Spike!  

If we can't get along, when we know each other, even sort of, how can we expect others to get along?

Dowser, should people unite behind Donald Trump because of this shooting? 

Please tell us.

Are you aware of various statements Trump has made SINCE that shooting? 

Donald Trump went to the hospital yesterday morning to visit Scalise. Within a half hour of leaving Scalise , Trump was posting tweets where he brought back his complaints about Hillary Clinton and claimed the Democrats are more involved with Russia than he is. 

This man wants no "unity" , he wants everyone to agree to submit to his intentions. 

It's not going to happen. 

After Trump is gone maybe there can be more "unity", but it will not happen before then. 

Stop fussing at everyone who doesn't agree with you 100%.  Be nicer to people.

If you can't, then keep it to yourself.  The only way we can get rid of him is to vote him out, or impeach him and remove him from office.  Perhaps the best way to change the way things have become is to practice what we want from our government, and elect people who will work with the other side.  I've sent a letter to both of my senators today.

The same old song and dance, it's a nice thought but do you actually think that it will last. 

Remember Gifford being shot in Phoenix, it was a ''come to Jesus'' time. How long did the civility last, a couple of weeks. 

Don't expect anything different this time.

I don't expect anything to be different, but I hope they will be.

I hope the drive-by flamers will take heed that it won't be allowed here-- from the other members.  I hope that we can set aside our differences to speak to each other in a normal tone of voice, as opposed to shouting.  I don't expect it to happen-- but I do expect all of us here to behave as adults, not screaming children.  

Frankly, we've lost too many members to continue as we have been going.  This site will die, if we don't.

Don't expect anything different this time.

I agree.

Yeah, me either.  But Perrie needs our help in being a bit more reasonable and less vituperative!

I agree.  No matter what any of us believe or say an article or seed, we should be able without exception to calmly and rationally as adults discuss and debate any given topic while maintaining comity and being civil even if the seed is from American Thinker or Dailykos.  There is no reason to attack the seeder or the source or to derail the topic because we didn't like what it said.  Either respond with civility or pass it by.  We can coexist here.  

Both democratic and republican parties are equally as guilty  for producing mindless partisan eunuchs that are incapable of independent thought.

There is a fatal flaw to your logic Aeon. It assumes that only non-Democrats and non-Republicans can think for themselves. If you are a Democrat or Republican someone tells you what to think and what to believe in. That's just nonsense. Sure it may be true in some cases, but it is not an axiom. 

If you are a Democrat or Republican someone tells you what to think and what to believe in. That's just nonsense.

I agree. I am a Democrat and I think for myself. I also believe that this idea that both sides are equally guilty is a false equivalency.

It's a generalization but I mean BOTH democrats and republicans equally.  You proved nothing.

People who are "partisan" and usually and in general vote for a party can still be described as thinking for themselves. It depends on the individual. 

Democrats and Republicans are not equal. That is a false equivalency. Their standards are different. What their goals are are different, etc. They are completely different on the law, how they look at social issues and health care are different. Many people say they both the same thing, but that is just an absurd elitist cop out.

See reply below.

Sorry, you are such a partisan democrat, you have zero credibility on this topic.

And you are such a hateful toward any party elitist that you have zero credibility on this subject.

How original, coming from a common partisan democrat.

How original, coming from a common partisan democrat.

Your elitism and ideology is every bit as blind and strong as you claim the most blind republicans and democrats are guilty of, except yours is directed toward the two parties and is instead in favor of your so called independence. How original coming from a common partisan independent.

I agree with Aeonpax here.  The elites of both parties are out of touch with the people.  I am a Conservative with libertarian leanings first and a republican second. I'm not an overt populist and I opposed Trump through out the primaries and voted for neither Trump nor Clinton in November.  The ranting of the people who lost the election and the actions of them have put me in the position of defending Trump much more than I imagined election night.  I believe he was the lesser evil between him and Hillary and expected to support him on his court picks, tax and regulations cuts, and obama rollbacks.  Now I feel I have to back him on everything in order to deal with the response of the haters.  

You make the same mistake she does, that a member of the Democratic Party blindly follows the "elites" of the Party when we do not. I am a member of the Democratic Party because I lean toward many of the issues they stand for like single payer health care and strong public education, because I believe both are essential National Security issues, since a healthy, well educated America is a much stronger America. I believe in strong Social Safety nets for those who need them, such as the elderly so they can live out their retirement with dignity and the disabled who truly can not work and need survival money and medicare that they have paid into all of their working lives. Many of these (most as a matter of fact) are things that the current GOP Congress does not believe in. They are again enthralled to the same foolish idea of trickle down economics. Foolish for everyone but the rich that is

Actually it has always worked fantastic, because it was designed to never trickle down. The idea of it trickling down was always a lie. The whole idea was to cut taxes for the rich and give a relatively tiny tax cut for the middle class and screw the poor. The way they sold it was that making the already rich richer meant that they would invest in creating more jobs and everyone would benefit, but the people who set it up knew that was never going to happen. They knew it was a lie. They knew that the rich would just keep the money for themselves and invest it off shore in hidden bank accounts or spend it on more mansions or yachts. And nothing trickled down, just they way they designed it. That was under Reagan. Then under Dubya when we were running a surplus and actually paying off a lot of our debt, Bush talked the people into it again and again it worked fantastic. The Rich got a lot more rich that time, the middle-class got a tiny amount and the poor got screwed and the deficit skyrocketed. And again, nothing trickled down, just like they planned. Now Trump and Paul Ryan want to do it again and they are counting on Americans being so damned stupid to let them do it to us again. To give a trillion dollar tax cut to the rich, a tiny amount to the middle-class and pay for some of it by taking away health care and all social safety nets for the poor and once again they will lie and say this will somehow magically create more jobs and be good for the economy. That again will be the big lie. They know that the now billionaires will just keep the money and no more jobs will be created and nothing will ever trickle down and again they will laugh at the stupidity of the average American people for letting them trick them with the exact same lie one more time. Always remember and never forget. Trickle down, massive tax cuts for the rich, is the biggest lie and outright theft the already rich have ever pulled on the rest of us. Nothing has ever trickled down because it is designed for all of the money to stay with the rich and to never trickle down. Ever. It is pure theft. It is all a huge lie. Don't let then get away with it again.

wait a minute. that's a logical fallacy. i have to consult the list to see which one.

that's like saying to a defendant "you can't be innocent because you're so guilty"

someone can choose, with great logic and consistency to support a political party. it is no more disqualifying of independent THOUGHT than being an independent is. 

Independent thought does not necessarily = political independence

I'm just saying that there is plenty of blame to go around...  But, you're right about the followers of just about any creed can be mindless!   

Thanks, all of you, for having an argument without resorting to name calling, etc.  I'm so glad you had this disagreement here!  No one was disagreeable!  Thank you, very much!

I'm sorry but I do not think both parties are equally to blame.  They are both to blame for different things but not all can be weighed equally.

Lady Dowser I appreciate your attempt to curtail the rhetoric but all anyone has to do is go look on the FP and the evidence is there for all to see.  

I agree with that, and I'm not trying to weigh everything equally.  What it is, is.  We have to move forward, and one of the ways to do that is to change our attitude here.

Part of the problem here is that we've fought with the same people, for so long, our attitudes have become entrenched about specific people.  I'm certainly willing to try to change my own attitudes towards the people here, but we must all try it.

It can't hurt, and it may save the site!   Wouldn't you like to be able to come here and not feel put down as a woman?  I surely would! 

Sadly, as long as hateful, rhetorical stories circulate … stories without verification/validation … stories intended to perpetuate a divided America … the politics of hate will continue, and likely, escalate.

Most of our FP exemplifies this and no amount of challenges or rebuttals to ugly, unfounded allegations brings anything but ad hominem responses.

Agendas that rely on assaults on reason manifest a desire, not for detente, rather for an escalation of hatred via scapegoating, misrepresentation, demagoguery … we are living in an Orwellian world.

In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics.' All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.

                                                                                                                                ___ George Orwell

I understand exactly what you're saying.  and feel that everyone here is likely a part of the dysfunction that is NT.  We've lost a LOT of good members, lately, and I only see that as continuing, if we can't grow up and behave as adults.  

This is a wonderful call to action, Dowser. Hat's off.

I think this has to run its course, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. I've read through the comments so far, and see that the blame game is in full swing. The suggestions are replete with what the party that they do not support should do to make things better. I feel bad about that, since I'm sure you were looking for anything but that. 

Sometimes it's the little things that bring about a more civil legislative body. I've been told that in the Congressional dining hall, they are even divided there. Perhaps they should begin by assigning seats, so as to insure that they all get to know each other - as people. 

I'm glad to hear that the Congressional baseball game was not cancelled. Someone floated the idea that the teams should not be divided into Republican and Democrat, but East and West. This way, again, there will be more opportunities for those in the opposing parties to spend more quality time with their counterparts.

I guess what I'm saying is that Congress needs to view the sum of its parts on an individual basis in order to move forward as a unit that has the back of the country as a whole, rather than its constituent party base. Each Member needs to view each other as a person, rather than a member of their party or the other party. That number is clearly less than 100%. 

It's a start, and hope is hard to come by, but we must push.

Again, cheers on your article, Dowser. 

Thank you, Jonathan!  You can see that most people are not at all ready to talk to one another, rather than shout, and that the blame game is going full strength.

I think everyone is at blame.  Not necessarily equally, but if you partake in the partisan BS, you're part of the problem.

Thank you, for your support!  

Not necessarily equally, but if you partake in the partisan BS, you're part of the problem

"Both sides do it" ,as a way of understanding the ongoing public dialogue relating to politics , is exactly what gave us Donald trump as president in the first place. 

Whereas 94 percent of all US daily newspapers refused to endorse Donald Trump for president, 94 PERCENT !, we had at the same time the "independents" and "non-partisans" saying "how bad can he really be" , "Hillary is just as bad" "what difference does it make"? 

Then we get Donald Trump in office contradicting himself every 5 minutes, promoting bills that he has no idea of what they actually contain, insulting our allies, planning to decimate the social safety net, end health insurance for 20 million people, end US participation in international climate change efforts, and give the rich big tax breaks. Not to mention the investigation into his Russian and financial dealings. 

Apathy over "partisanship" is part of what got us here. 

BRAVO!

I don't see any progress being made here. The examples on this thread are evidence of that.

Your president's latest approval rating is 35% . 

He's your president too. Good job.

"I don't see any progress being made here. The examples on this thread are evidence of that."

I agree with Cerenkov. Dowser is commended for making an attempt to save this site, and to start here and with what she is doing personally politically to try to stop the denoument of the USA.  Some others here are proving the point of her warning. From abroad, from an observer only, I find it hard to fathom that such divisiveness and polarization has not already led to an ideological civil war. There are American expats here who agree with me - they consider themselves lucky not to be there.

Buzz, Comment removed for CoC violation [ph] Your objectivity is a thing of the past. 

I appreciate whoever flagged John Russell's comment - it was not me.  However I know what it was because it was preserved in my email - somewhat of a surprise considering that John Russell thanked me recently for posting an article that was critical of Trump.  One cannot even try to be like Dowser has been in this article without raising his vitriol.

Buzz, if what I said to you is a COC violation everyone who uses any impolite language whatsoever better be on the lookout. 

I don't know what else to say. It was not a compliment but neither was it a gross insult. 

I am worried about speech being squeezed to death out here. 

The fact that I enjoy playing devil's advocate in opposition to members whose obsessions go beyond the pale, no matter on whatever topic, is what you should not only be critical about, but perhaps you should look within yourself to recognize that you qualify for such of my comments.

Again, there is a huge difference between disagreeing and behaving disagreeably.  None of us have to agree, but it doesn't take insults and name calling to disagree.

Dowser , I get along fine with the great majority of people on this site, and consider many of them friends.  When people post false and fake information from discredited clownish websites like Infowars and Gateway Pundit, and/ or openly lie, they will hear about it.  I am not a "both sides are equally guilty" kind of guy.

I think, dear friend, that you are not listening to what I'm saying.  I never said that both sides were "Equal" in any way, I said that there was plenty of blame to go around.  I never said you should stop disagreeing, I said that you can disagree without being disagreeable.  BIG difference!

I think, dear friend, that you are not listening to what I'm saying.  I never said that both sides were "Equal" in any way, I said that there was plenty of blame to go around. 

In essence, both statements imply the same thing.  'Plenty of blame to go around' is a statement typically used to describe a situation that is roughly balanced.  I've seen a whole lot of this ridiculous equivalency assertion on the news lately.  On AM Joy this morning, they were laughing about Ted Nugent asking democrats to tone down.  Nugent has said Hillary Clinton should suck on his machine gun, and should be hanged, among many other horrible statements.

OK, to me, "plenty of blame to go around" means that both sides are at fault-- not necessarily equally-- just both sides are at fault.

You cannot deny that both sides have contributed to the ills of the country-- some ideas have been good ideas and some have not.  It's a matter of opinion.  

To me, to statement does NOT imply equality, it just says that both sides have contributed.

so pick a side. otherwise you are saying both sides are equally to blame.

Imagine a room that has 100 football fans and 100 baseball fans, debating which sport is better.  20 football fans cough up a big hucker and spit on the baseball fans, and two baseball fans return the favor.  It would be incredibly short sighted to say there's plenty of blame to go around.

Have you ever had an argument/discussion with your wife where she was 100% right and you were 100% wrong?  No?  In just about anything, there is blame for the argument to go around...  I'm not saying equal blame, but you contributed to the argument, as well, making your own points.  See what I mean?

If either of you can't agree, that's fine.  Just move along.

There is a difference between fringe behavior and and mainstream behavior.  You're right - 100% is unachievable, but I think it's wrong to not recognize when behavior goes beyond fringe.

Hal, recognize it, discuss it-- all I'm saying is that it's not necessary to be snarky about it.  I know it's hard not to be.  Sometimes, I find it so incredible, it's all I can do to not respond in kind.  But that's not the way to make the site grow...

There is a member here who fairly regularly posts articles suggesting or saying that President Obama is a communist. Have you ever told him to knock it off?

I rarely ever mention Bush or Reagan. I am worried about the travesty that has befallen our country today.  This is not the point in history for "equal blame".

I seeded an article yesterday about how Trump used nepotism to appoint a friend of the family to a high regional position in HUD. There was so much off topic crap posted on the seed about Obama , Chicago, the mayor of New York, etc that I closed the article this morning.

Aren't you doing the same here?  Your demand for equality is not the topic of discussion-- the ability to disagree without being mean to each other, is.

And, as you can see, to me, I did not imply "equality".

Now, I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing.  I'm not asking you to accept what I'm saying as truth-- I told you what it meant to me-- and that you have to accept as the truth as I see it.  NOW, I think that you are just trying to be difficult on the article.  And I'm not sure why...  Do you want me to give you a free pass to be snarky to others?  Because I'm not going to do it.  

We can all disagree without being disagreeable.

I am not advocating apathy.  I am advocating behaving as adults.  Stop posting BLAME articles and stop picking at each other.  Stop doubling down on opinions, unless you can prove they are viable, or preface your opinion as YOUR OPINION.  Calm down the rhetoric.

Can it happen?  Yes.  Will our members allow it to happen?  I don't know.  I hope so!

Dowser, we have lost members over IMO the constant posting of ''blame'' articles and the refusal to actually look at facts that prove other wise. 

The drive by one liners that have nothing to do with the article, or posting comments that are untrue and say it's true because the person said so. 

All and all the effects contribute to the current situation that we have on NT. 

Hopefully with members like yourself the overall nasty tone of NT will calm down.

Thanks, Kavika!

I think that most of us are tired of the same old, same old.  We're losing some our best members to it.

Ladies and Gentlemen  (Sunday Afternoon)--

I am closing this article down for the rest of the evening.  I will comment on it again tomorrow!  Tonight, I want to relax with my family!  Happy Father's day to all fathers and fatherly members here!  Happy Father's Day to my dear husband, Magnum!

Have a great night!

Dowser

Well done Dowser!! I hope is that all of our articles ran like this. 

Thank you, Perrie!  We have it in us, to disagree without being so mean to each other...  I just hope we can do it!