Reminiscences of Leopold and Loeb
Link to Quote: https://famous-trials.com/leopoldandloeb/1749-ownwords
Police have linked Bryan Kohberger to the stabbing deaths of 4 students: Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Ethan Chapin, 20, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Madison Mogen, 21. Kohberger is a 28-year-old graduate student, with a master's degree from DeSales and he is a criminal justice Ph.D. candidate. He studied under famed criminoligist Dr. Katherine Ramsland. Kohberger was charged Thursday with four counts of first-degree murder and one count of felony burglary. A premeditated first-degree murder charge in Idaho carries a death sentence or life imprisonment. This case in which an intellectual comes to believe in his own superior intellect to the point of being able to comit and get away with the "perfect crime" reminds us of the famous case of Leopold and Loeb.
For those who don't know:
"Wealthy and intellectually brilliant ( Leopold had graduated from the University of Chicago at 18, Loeb from the University of Michigan at 17), the two had committed several petty acts of theft and arson before attempting the “perfect murder”—in the kidnap of Bobby Franks in a rented automobile on May 21, 1924, on Chicago’s south side; Loeb, the more ruthless of the two, hit the boy on the head with a chisel and stuffed a gag in his mouth; the boy died within minutes. They half-buried the body in a railway culvert and, by phone and notes, demanded $10,000 in ransom from the boy’s wealthy parents. The body, however, was unexpectedly found, and several clues, including the discovery of Leopold’s eyeglasses at the culvert, led the police to Leopold and Loeb. They quickly confessed.
For 33 days in July–August 1924, Darrow, hired by Leopold’s father, defended the two before Judge John R. Caverly, offering an eloquent appeal against capital punishment. The judge finally sentenced them each to life imprisonment for murder and 99 years for kidnapping. They were sent to Northern Illinois Penitentiary near Joliet ."
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Leopold-and-Loeb
It is truly sad when the well educated delude themselves into thinking that they are superior to the rest of us. In the Kohberger case the police took a lot of heat up front but in the end they got the killer. Another spoiled genius bites the dust.
The Week:
D ay 4 of Kevin McCarthy's odyssey: "After failing to win in 11 rounds of voting, Kevin McCarthy played down the idea that planned concessions would weaken him as speaker, and negotiators indicated they were closing in on an agreement. Republicans involved in the talks huddled late into Thursday trying to bridge the gulf between Mr. McCarthy’s supporters and his 20 opponents . Negotiators indicated they were closing in on an agreement, and Mr. McCarthy expressed optimism and played down the idea that planned concessions would weaken him as speaker."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/kevin-mccarthys-house-speaker-bid-heads-to-fourth-day-as-talks-continue-11673002595?mod=hp_lead_pos5
U.S. employers added 223,000 jobs in December: "The jobless rate moved down to 3.5% from a revised 3.6% in November. The December payrolls numbers are a slight decline from November’s revised increase of 256,000, the Labor Department said Friday . For all of 2022, U.S. employers added 4.5 million jobs, the second-best year for job creation on records back to 1940 after 2021, when the labor market rebounded from the pandemic-induced shutdowns and added 6.7 million jobs."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/december-jobs-report-unemployment-rate-economy-growth-2022-11672961227
Transgender ruling: "A federal judge in West Virginia has upheld a state law that prohibits biological male student athletes who identify and present themselves as female from playing on girl's school sports teams . Judge Joseph R. Goodwin of the Southern District of West Virginia ruled on Thursday that H.B. 3293, the "Save Women's Sports Bill," which defines "girl" and "woman" as biologically female for the purpose of secondary school sports, is "constitutionally permissible." The court found that West Virginia's definition of "biological sex" for school sports is "substantially related to its important interest in providing equal athletic opportunities for females."
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/federal-judge-upholds-west-virginia-save-womens-sports-law-barring-trans-athletes-girls-sports-teams
Violence in the failing nation of Mexico: "The state of Sinaloa, Mexico is being hit with a wave of violence, officials say, following the arrest of the son of jailed drug cartel kingpin Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzmán in the days leading up to President Biden’s visit to the country. Sinaloa state governor Ruben Rocha told Reuters that so far seven members of Mexico’s security forces have been killed and 21 were injured in a dozen clashes within the northern Sinaloa state, home to the cartel with the same name that once was run by El Chapo. Ovidio Guzmán, his son, was arrested there Thursday by Mexican authorities, officials confirmed."
https://www.foxnews.com/world/sinaloa-mexico-engulfed-violence-chaos-el-chapo-son-arrest-ahead-biden-visit
What have we learned:
There are two takeaways from the standoff going on in the House of Representatives. First is the state of the House that has so many Republican members angry. That would be the legacy of Nancy Pelosi:
1) Congress not complying with its own budget process
2) The Speakers office now has firm control of House business
3) Committees barely function.
4) Members have no ability to debate or make amendments.
5) Legislation is decided in private by party leaders.
That seems to be part of the complaints of the 19 members to the right of McCarthy. Unfortunately, It's McCarthy who is bearing the brunt of what Pelosi has wrought. My second impression of this fight over the Speaker is that no matter how many concessions McCarthy makes, there is a group that simply does not want him to be Speaker.
There is another issue that needs to be addressed and that is the msm story involving newly elected congressman George Santos. He is not only a liar, as many politicians are, but he is blatant and ridiculous with lying. The funny part is that he emulates Joe Biden in this regard. So why the sudden outrage? I see the New York Times, which has told more lies than Santos and Biden combined is still doing stories on it. It's without a doubt: the biggest non-story of the week.
Cartoon of the Week:
Honorable Mention:
Simon Ateba
Tags
Who is online
74 visitors
My message for the 19 against McCarthy:
Listen to Trump and "take the victory!"
What victory?
What a loser ass kisser yet still a loser
lol
The assholes are on the steps of the Capitol right now redoing their Jan 6th Bull Shit. Is that what you mean?
I watched Pelosi stumble through her adoration speech commemorating the people who died on Jan 6, 2020. What she deliberately omitted was that the only person who died that day was unarmed Ashli Babbitt.
... shout out to Ashley Babbit for 2 years of sobriety.
Correct. Within a few minutes somebody here will claim that the Capitol cop who died of a heart attack was a direct casualty of the riot
I'm sure it will happen. It's the MSM mantra.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you mean folks are protesting the failed insurrection and reminding people to never incite an insurrection after losing the Presidency for months and continue to deny you lost and never conceded to President Biden.
Is that what you mean?
Is deflection all you have?
He was a direct casualty of the failed insurrection thanks to the scumbags and vermin who were there and supported/enabled the failed coup/insurrectionist vermin and beat others nearly to death and used bear spray on some officers and shit and piss in the Capitol
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
While I agree with some of the points of the 19 and I do believe that Washington needs a big correction and that McCarthy is too engrained into the Washington elite to really be a good leader, I have another take on it. The Democrats IMO should think long and hard about who they want in the leadership chair. At least McCarthy is moderate enough that he will still work with Democrats, there are a few on the right who will not. Hell, while it's along shot it's not ruled out. How would the Democrats feel about having Trump elected to the speakership? Maybe the Democrats should also stop playing their partisan games and think what would be better for them for the next two years. With the political climate being what it is I do not see the potential for a coalition government and I do not see any Republicans being willing to vote a Democrat in as Speaker, so perhaps the best the Democrats could hope for would be a moderate who at least will work with them?
IMO I do not want McCarthy as speaker, I don't believe he's truly interested in conservative values and the betterment of the country. He's more interested in advancing his own power and wealth and his next steps down the road.
You've made some good points. It is true that there are those who have never trusted McCarthy, but I must say they have gotten quite a few major concessions out of him.
If he were elected Speaker now, he would be operating with a gun to his head for the next two years. I don't know why he hasn't stepped aside?
McCarthy is not a moderate, he is a Trumpster.
Are all Republicans who supported Trump MAGA Republicans?
McCarthy is of the Ryan/Boehner class.
I didn't say he was a moderate, I said he was moderate enough that he would work with Democrats. IMO he's more concerned with his future and solidifying his power and money. He's young enough, I would expect him to run for the White House in a couple of cycles. To be successful with that he will need to show that he can work with everybody. And he's very much ingrained with the Washington establishment.
McCarthy is Gingrich 2.0
No, he's Ryan 2.0
WTF.
McCarthy is way too much of a moderate to ever be Gingrich.
How far to the left does one have to be to even think that?
Maybe. McCarthy will do what he thinks is best for McCarthy not for the Republican Party nor the American people. Gingrich has no morals or ethics something McCarthy seems to be learning.
Yes, they're all MAGATS
"President Biden appears to be struggling in his press conference on his immigration reforms. After referring to "President Harris", he said the seizure of "more than 20,000 pounds of deadly fentanyl...[is] enough to kill as many as a 1,000 people."...Jonathan Turley
I nearly fell of my chair in astonishment at those blunders. It seems that his handlers didn't give him a note card with the Fentanyl poisoning death stats that were caused by HIS Administration's dereliction of duty.
He's going to the border tomorrow. The 2024 election has begun!
This afternoon. It's just a 3 hour photo op lay-over with Mayorkas in a sanitized El Paso. They started getting rid of illegals' tents, blankets, human excrement, and garbage last week and moved the illegals out of sight. Biden won't see what Fox News reporters have been showcasing for a long time.
Joe will do whatever the CCP, Mexican cartels, Soros, Obama, and Jill tell him to do.
El Paso has become the Ellis Island for illegal migrants. Remember McCarthy's promise: If Mayorkas doesn't resign he will face impeachment!
Joe will do whatever the CCP, Mexican cartels, Soros, Obama, and Jill tell him to do.
And right now they are telling him to look more moderate.
At least the Ellis Island immigrants entered LEGALLY, were vetted/sponsored, and medically checked out before release into the US. I can't say the same about 5 MILLION known illegal aliens and tens of thousands of illegal got-aways, many of whom are criminals, on Joe's watch.
where are your citations for the millions of allegedly known illegal immigrants and the alleged tens of thousands illegal alleged many known criminals?
not from faux news though or some other far right wing rag or blog or whatever
You have asked me for these citations on numerous occasions before, and I've complied. I will not do it anymore. Groundhog Day is a good movie, but I don't live it.
Which were all false or irrelevant.
Of course, you have no citation because it's not true
Did someone tell you that, or did you form your own opinion after READING the links you claim you never read?
It doesn't matter. I've provided both left and right links which included the same CBP statistics.
[Deleted]
I know. It is just that the incessant, childish criticism of links the person never even read gets tiresome.
[Deleted]
Not entirely true.
Two tiered justice?
You really shouldn't say anything without non partisan iron clad proof.
Two-tiered "justice" throughout the world has existed for millennia and exists today. Your point?
How many times are "enough" times for you, SP? For FIVE YEARS I've complied by posting CBP, DHS, DEA, and other government documentation - including video footage and interviews with CBP agents and county sheriffs. If people don't open and read/watch them, it's not my fault.
we're supposed to be better than that in america. hopefully the DOJ and jack smith prove it soon.
Ellis Island didn't screen First Class or Second Class passengers unless their paperwork was in crayons or they were bleeding.
I would expect a link each and every time someone spouts statistics about any political issue especially when they are repeating Breitbart & FAIR estimates based on those invisible "gotaways".
Is that clear enough?
You know as well as I do that Breitbart and FAIR aren't allowed as seed origins on this site, SP. That's why I've never seeded anything using either of those sites.
As far as the rest of your comment - many things are common knowledge and do not need to be cited every time someone who admits to not opening links continues to ask for them. Examples:
Our members are smart enough to use the Internet to verify people's comments. Therefore, they can easily verify my comments about illegal aliens, CBP, DHS, DEA ------- especially because I've posted non-partisan links MANY times.
gee, I wonder why...???
Yes, I easily verified that the figure 5 million you are quoting is sourced by
FAIR and repeated by the likes of Breitbart, not the CBP.
Which is why links are necessary.
Thanks SP. I would expect a citation to back up those claims, which I did, which I requested, which was denied because obviously he has no actual proof
WE shouldn't have to verify YOUR claims. Why not just provide proof for your allegations?
Yeah, when people make a claim they should have to provide some proof. It just sucks when people toss out shit without providing any verification for the shit they just tossed out.
Sometimes we forget this is a venue for speaking one’s opinion.
Too often, we get caught up in the desire for verification (when nearly any point can be readily verified or vilified) thus losing the intent of this being first and foremost a mostly civil open forum…thankfully.
That being said, always appreciate your input, Snuffy, though we rarely see eye to eye.
Thanks again for a good wrap up.
lol to you maybe
Well that's all that matters at this point. Your opinion after not even reading is irrelevant.
I read it. garbage as usual. a complete waste of my time
You say that every week yet here you are............................
Just reminding the know nothings of the garbage they are reading, if they know how
doubtful.
It's always good for a chuckle or outright guffaw at vic's 'version' of the week
Well, he is the one that counts!
There is a commemoration of the Jan 6th two year anniversary taking place right now on the Capitol steps. Out of the 200 or so congress people attending the commemoration, ABC News reports that very few of them are Republicans.
Maybe they're saving up their energy for the next dozen McCarthy votes.
What a bunch of assholes!
I agree, the Republicans without the decency or patriotism to commemorate the Jan 6th attack, on Jan 6, are assholes.
Yup, The second anniversary of the worst day in American history since the attack on Pearl Harbor!
Did you cry?
Your delusions appear to be expanding.
I thought having a bell ring as names were read was a nice touch. Don't you think so?
I must have missed the progressives commemorating the officers and secret service agents injured during their 2020 assault on the White House.
Progressives broke down the doors of the White House and rampaged the place? When was that? I must have been sleeping .
They just did. They claim that 140 officers were seriously injured. Bells were ringing as they said it.
Oh, you mean the 2020 riots? That's all forgotten!
(Paul Pelosi was masterbaiting)
It was when they had to take the President down to a bunker and you guys were makling jokes about it. Remember?
Please post the pictures of a progressive mob breaking down the doors of the White House, entering by the hundreds, and rampaging the place. I think we would all be interested in those photos.
Yeah, injuring police and secret service was a big joke until Jan 2021. Rioters attacking the White House forced Trump to be moved to a bunker! Lol
good point. If the police had successfully contained the Jan 6 rioters and they had just spent hours assaulting and injuring officers, you would have laughed and called it a nothing burger, right?
John, we all know that they were only yards from the White House and had just burned down a Church. If the AG hadn't told the security forces to increase the perimiter the next morning, they surely would have. Had they have stormed the White House, the media would have called it a protest gone bad and it would have been no big deal...as the riots that killed two dozen were.
Those rioters killed two dozen people. It's barely a footnote.
So I guess you have no pictures showing a mob enter the White House, such as what happened at the capitol on Jan 6.
I guess they are not the same and equivalent then, are they?
I do have pictures of the 2020 rioters setting a police station on fire with people in it:
They aren't of the same equivalent. The 2020 riots were far worse.
which one of those riots attempted to obstruct a joint session of congress that was completing a constitutionally mandated process?
You seem to do that a lot.
That's right. Destruction of cities across the country over a drug addicts overdose doesn't effect the people as much as a protest in Washington D.C.
Which cities were destroyed? I just checked and all of our cities are still there.
Tell us you haven't paid attention to a damn thing without telling us.
Instead of attacking me, answer the fucking question, but we all know you have no answer. Typical.
Hyperbole much?
Instead of attacking me, answer the fucking question
I answered your "fucking question" before you ask it. Seems you can't pay attention to what was said 5 minutes ago let alone to anything about the riots of 2020.
I guess the outrage is really more about what you support instead of it just plain happening.
I just reviewed all of your comments on this article and you did not answer the question of which cities were destroyed So, yes, answer the fucking question. Which cities were destroyed? Answer is None. No cities were fucking destroyed. All you have hyperbole. Your outrage is nothing but fucking histrionics. Save your drama for the people that mindlessly agree with you.
So your attention span is in question as well as your comprehension skills.
It's cute you actually think you are in ANY position of authority over me. I guess "Wishful Thinking" is how you operate. Tell me how that's working for you.
My "outrage"? I'm not the one demanding an answer to a question.
Again, you have nothing but histrionics and hyperbole. You've answered nothing and now you're just making shit up.
Because those gqp republicans played a part of the failed coup. They're vermin scum
Do you often fantasize about other men masturbating? That's a lie about Paul Pelosi. All you have
lol I thought he was going to waddle to the Capitol. He was masturbating watching the vermin scum destroying/attacking people/police/security and shitting and pissing inside the Capitol, etc. They're doing this for me as he bops his baloney.
Babbit got exactly what she deserved. Traitor bitch. Send the other vermin scrum cockroaches scrambling also. Win-win!
Nobody claimed they were.. But a lot of damage was done and many people were hurt.
And by the way....the Capitol wasn't destroyed either...just some minor damage in fact.
I never said the Capitol was destroyed, so that was a bad attempt at deflection.
There's the claim in all of its hyperbolic glory.
And yet, you haven't proven anything I've stated wrong. Why is that?
So, you're still sticking to the lame ass story that cites were destroyed, yet you never answered what cities were destroyed. I can't prove you wrong if you don't answer the question because absolutely no cities were destroyed. They're all there. So, why didn't you answer my question is the new question? Second question is why are you replying to comments I made 4 days ago when you couldn't reply to them at the time?
You keep running your mouth by replying to me so yeah, I'll keep on replying to you. You don't even know what you are talking about anymore. I asked you over and over again what cities have been destroyed. How can I prove you wrong if you won't answer the question? Fuck you're dense. AND NO CITIES WERE DESTROYED, NONE. There, I proved you wrong since you supplied the same amount of proof that cities were destroyed.
Democrats celebrating their most beloved day Jan 6th. Oh the joy they feel! The elation they have!
They, and their media shills, will try and force everyone to remember it forever. Since they have no achievements other than running this country into the ground for the last two years, it is all they have to divert voters attention.
More officers and Feds were injured during the leftist Brown shirt Summer of Love than Jan 6th. More civilians assaulted and killed. More damage was done to private, public, state, and federal property.
Maybe Democrats should remember all the inciting their politicians and talking heads have done?
Try to ignore the information coming out about Pelosi's role in fucking up security on Jan 6th. The Republicans already release a report blasting Pelosi, Bowser, and Schumer. The fired head of DC Security has a book out blaming Pelosi for "politicizing" DC security and hamstringing it's ability to do it's job.
So celebrate Jan 6th while you can. The truth is coming out; and Democrats aren't going to like it.
As long as the "Lost Cause Jan 6th " deniers keep misrepresenting the truth I will treat them like the unpatriotic scum they are.
Misrepresenting the truth. And exactly what truth has been "misrepresented"? Lets see your links.
Which is covered:
Notice how the left is absent from trying to disprove ANY OF IT.
get lost waste of time
Oh, what's wrong? Can't back up your claims (AGAIN)?
Oh, that's cute. You asking for someone to back up their claims when you can't answer a simple question.
[Deleted]
JEREMY ALSO, HE'S ON IGNORE. BRINGS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO THE TABLE LIKE THE MAJORITY OF HIS BUDDIES
It's a high holy day to them. They'll by commemorating it a decade from now.
They're milking this has baked riot and demonstration gone bad for all its worth.
Was it wrong for the Trump supporters to engage in an armed break-in of the Capitol and cause the disruption of Congress?
Do you believe that history will find this to be an insignificant, meaningless event?
In short, why would anyone NOT find the Jan 6th events (and the Big Lie campaign that precipitated it) to be distasteful and a stain on our nation?
They do need to fix Biden's cue cards however so he doesn't again confuse it with July 6th.
Well, it does scare the bejesus out of his handlers when he goes off script on the cue cards because they never know what will come out of his mouth!
That's a moronic comment
Pelosi was the first speaker to not allow a single floor amendment from the opposition party. She, with the help of her elected mindless glasses of water, made the peoples house more anti democratic than it had ever been.
In history to be so absolutely worthless that she lost the speakership twice.
How many Speakers have that on their record?
Since 1900 Sam Rayburn, also a democrat lost it 3 times,
Ahh yes!
If she lives long enough she may have one more chance to tie the record
Bite your tongue! The woman has trouble keeping her dentures in her mouth!
And it looks like she had trouble keeping a hatchet out of her face!
She should spend more time keeping male prostitutes away from Paul, Maybe that's wheyshe wants to be an ambassador?
Looks like Kevin is going for a baker's dozen.
Yet all they have is deflecting to and pissing all over Nancy
Probably own stock in Botox!
Can we ever forget the way she made her members walk the plank for Obamacare?
Many of them paid with their political careers.
the events between election day 11/20 to 1/6/21 -
Nothing but endless lies and incitement and planning for the not yet failed coup on 1/6
Is this similar to Reagan's amnesty program?
Speaking of colossal horrors, one of those would be stephen miller, the anal warts on Satan's ass
Democratic governor sending migrants to NYC
And the little whining coward NYC Mayor crying "it's not fair". Looks like NYC's declaration that it's a sanctuary city was merely virtue signaling that has been called out.
Shipping people across the country? What does that say about us as people? We put so little value on the lives of these people we are ok allowing human beings to be transported across the country as cheap dime store political pawns?
It's disgusting and anyone that supports this is an inhuman, immoral pos! A country of immigrants treating desperate people like animals. Wow this country is F'd because the warped minds of people that support things like this.
You obviously don't know the full background on the movement of illegals throughout the country. I'll get you started.
Biden secretly flying underage migrants into NY in dead of night
NYC, Martha's Vineyard, Washington D.C., Chicago all declared themselves Sanctuary Cities, that they would welcome the "newcomers". But when these "newcomers" arrived these "welcoming" shit holes reneged and the "newcomers" were shipped off to other locations for them to deal with.
Texas, Colorado and Florida haven't tried to move anybody under the cover of darkness and in Florida's case, they have documents signed by the "migrants" stating that they boarded the buses by their own accord.
You want me to feel sorry for them? Not going to happen. There is a process that should be followed. They are sidestepping the process. They are here ILLEGALLY and should be removed.
The big item looming on the legislative agenda is raising the debt limit. The fear is that McCarthy will cave. We've already observed during the speaker fight that McCarthy will trade away everything for his own political benefit. This isn't about 'The Party' any longer. The Republican Party no longer has a policy agenda so factions are required to fight for their own cause -- screw 'The Party'. The Republican Party trying to stand for everything only means the Republican Party stands for nothing. It's every man for himself. And Kevin McCarthy trying to serve himself won't unify Republicans. McCarthy is a left coast Republican, after all.
Not even Reagan could unify the current Republican Party without a policy agenda.
My X is coming by for lunch ... a good thing seeing that I need an extra pair of hands to count all the squirrels.
Why not use a Canadian source? This one could become one of your faves:
Great site. My computer almost crashed.
I'll say a prayer for it.
You're always trying to help!
Do you also have a crush on Mr. Trudeau?
Both Biden and KJP said that J6 was the worst attack on democracy since the Civil War.
Biden ... April, 2021 ...
KJP ... December, 2022 ...
They've obviously never learned about Pearl Harbor and September 11, 2001.
One more ...
Those were attacks by foreign parties, as an act of war on our country, not the ideals of democracy. Sorry, but not the same thing.
So you don't think that those attacks were indeed attacks on our democracy? Whether foreign parties or not? Sorry can't agree. Why else would they attack us? They didn't like us nor our principles and ideals. Our very fabric of existence.
I'm still trying to figure out which foreign country attacked Oklahoma City.
I guess we need a better demonstration of what an attack on democracy is? Was the civil war an attack on democracy? they still had elections in the south. so was it a democracy attacking another democracy?
Really? Were the Japanese a Democracy when they attacked Pearl Harbor? How about the countries the 9/11 terrorists were from; or Afghanistan where they were trained/organized?
Don't remember Democrats saying the Oklahoma City bombing wasn't an attack on Democracy. That was done by Americans BTW.
If things had gone their way would the US still be a Democracy today?
Love the hyperbole and drama from Democrats and leftists. Jan 6th was the first "insurrection" where the participants got bored and left for happy hour.
Keep the Jan 6th dream alive! Maybe it will work again with voters in 2024.
I remember when America rolled in to Iraq where no weapons of mass destruction were found. The Human cost in the region was abhorrent. 306,000 civilians were slaughtered. That's democracy right? The cost of it? The price for freedom?
America is not free, you are not free, we surrendered much of that. If you enter the capital building you are a terrorist and your due process is the last thing anyone cares about. The terrorist label killed 70,000 in Afghanistan and imprisoned thousands more most of whom were poor farmers. The laws during this time period have made us all potential terrorist suspects. At some point in the near future all of us may experience the impact of the legal changes during the War on Terror. It will one day be impossible to espouse opinions online without the threat of losing what little freedom you have left.
One thing is for certain, someone thinks each and every one of us is a terrorist and will be a willing participant cheering for their tribes actions as they persecute your thought crimes.
Because they had the idea of splitting up the world between two powers. War by an outside party is a totally different thing than war within a country.
How many were killed by US forces and how many by terrorist's?
Three dates will live in infamy…December 7th, 9/11, and January 6th. Attacks all.
As to the Japanese, it had to do with them securing oil and other resources ... the US had placed an economic embargo over Japan.
Two nuts who were mad at the FBI for Waco and Ruby Ridge, went radical and decided to blow up an FBI building is hardly an attack on democracy.
I see you ignored the 1995 Oklahoma attack I cited. It was a domestic terrorism attack on the "ideals of democracy". How quickly we forget.
No they weren't a democracy, but it really doesn't matter. It was a world war. The Japanese were at war for a different reason than Germany, and Russia was an ally of us. We're they a democracy? You can't compare a world war to an internal conflict.
So first of all, that is beyond personal to me, since it was not only an attack on my city, but I was actually there. Don't you think I might be invested in what happened there? Those people wanted us out of Afghanistan and out of the ME and our support of Israel which Bin Lenden spelled out in an official letter. He didn't give a damn about taking down our country. He was trying to take a dump on us so we would leave.
I already went over Oklahoma City.
Not recognizing what Jan 6 was is what keeps it alive. Personally, I would like to get past it and move on.
In Iraq? That number is from Iraq alone. It actually does not include people indirectly affected that died of a loss of infrastructure etc. Doctors without Borders estimates the number over 2 million.
I thought we were looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, what does that have to do with terrorism?
I have already addressed it and if we want to quote wiki:
Motive [ edit ]
The chief conspirators, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, met in 1988 at Fort Benning during basic training for the U.S. Army. [17] McVeigh met Michael Fortier as his Army roommate. [18] The three shared interests in survivalism . [19] [20] McVeigh and Nichols were radicalized by white supremacist and antigovernment propaganda. [21] They expressed anger at the federal government's handling of the 1992 Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) standoff with Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge , as well as the Waco siege , a 51-day standoff in 1993 between the FBI and Branch Davidian members that began with a botched Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) attempt to execute a search warrant . There was a firefight and ultimately a siege of the compound, resulting in the burning and shooting deaths of David Koresh and 75 others. [22] In March 1993, McVeigh visited the Waco site during the standoff, and again after the siege ended. [23] He later decided to bomb a federal building as a response to the raids and to protest what he believed to be US government efforts to restrict rights of private citizens, in particular those under the Second Amendment. [12] [24] [25] [26] [27] McVeigh believed that federal agents were acting like soldiers, thus making an attack on a federal building an attack on their command centers. [28]
“Jan 6th is already forgotten by "Normal" folks,”
Methinks you misquote “Normal” with the more appropriate ‘abnormal’…those sad individuals who forget the meaning of democracy and tacitly, ignorantly support its suppression.
We placed an embargo on Japan after they had attacked and taken Korea, Manchuria, were attacking strategic cities in China and was looking at Indochina.
Pearl Harbor was not an attack on democracy. The japanese wanted a far east empire and the US , and Britain, would not allow it. They attacked the US in the hope of either winning a quick war or getting the US to back down on their opposition to Japanese territorial ambitions.
Sep 11th was arguably an attack on democracy, Waco and Mc veigh are not.
Not according to Bin Laden.
The thing that made Jan 6th an attack on democracy was the nature of the intentions. They wanted to subvert the keystone of democracy, the sanctity of the vote.
They have to know that John. I gather they just don't care.
Your point?
You know they will change the definitions to fit their narrative.
"Democracy wasn't destroyed by Jan. 6th, as the Vote Counts for elections "After the Fact", surpassed even the "Media's Fake Suppression/Jim Crow 2.0" mis-information Crap !
What?
[Deleted] relieve us from having to decipher such illiterate idiocy.
That 'skirmish' was all about rubber and synthetics still being several years away from mass production:
His purpose was not to destroy our democracy but for us to mind our own business.
Yes, and I asked how many were killed by US forces versus by other Iraqis or regional terrorists.
First of all, all those events were infamous. What we are discussing is what was the purpose of them and that varies.
And what narrative? Facts are facts. What I read here is people trying to defend and act that should have never happened and the reason it happened is that those people wanted to stop the peaceful transfer of power, which indeed is a threat to our democracy. It is what has been going on since the country started and is a gift that our founding fathers gave us.
Perpetrated by who? There are conflicting versions of what happened that day. Which one is "fact"?
So keeping that in mind, it's suddenly a problem? Or is it only a problem from a certain perspective?
Why? Because you say so? I’m not defending the Jan 6 attackers but they sure weren’t attacking democracy. The hyperbole around it is hysterical.
Trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power, is an attack on democracy, as it undermines the whole premise of our elections. It is those who can't see it, that make this an endless issue.
And it's not because I say so. It's because it is a fact.
You might want to read this:
or this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_transition_of_power#:~:text=A%20peaceful%20transition%20or%20transfer,to%20a%20newly%2Delected%20leadership .
According to the police present. According to Pence. According to both Dems and Republicans there.
The problem is that this should have never happened. That there was a plan to stop the peaceful transfer of power. The only perspective is what the nation witnessed that day. The problem is that there are some people who don't see this as a problem.
Oh, I see. Domestic terrorism perpetrated by Americans isn't threatening to democracy as international terrorism perpetrated by foreigners. SMH
Shake your head as much as you like, because it is obvious to me that you didn't read a word I said. The words to remember are purpose and motivation.
Anyway, this mincing of words is irrelevant. If you want to say that all those previous events threaten our democracy, fine with me. But we did it to ourselves on Jan 6.
Don't put me in the same categories as you and others for what you did on J6. I was hundreds of miles away from DC on that date! Sheeeeesh!
You are way too literal. I meant as a country. Sheeeesh.
True. We still don't have "facts" about ...
No, Perrie.You said "we" in comment 11.1.36 . By using that pronoun , you led readers to believe that you included yourself.
Again, that is too literal and I am not falling into that trap with you.
Feel free to stop making a fool out of yourself at any time. "We" is a perfectly appropriate way for an individual to describe actions of their countrymen.
This is borderline insanity. Even if, for no good reason, we stipulate that "Ray Epps" instigated something, so what? Did he instigate the Proud boys? Did he instigate the Oath Keepers? Did he instigate the white supremacists? Are you claiming that without Ray Epps the insurrection would not have occurred ?
Well how about these attacks?
Where were you during the late 60's/early 70's?
"Early 1971 was a time of heightened tension in Washington, D.C. Police are shown trying to remove protesters on May 1, 1971, at a massive rally that occurred just weeks after a bomb was planted in a washroom below the Senate chamber. (Michael Ochs Archives/Getty Images)"
How come nothing was done about that?
Aren't those young radicals the same people holding complete power today?
Epps did more, way more to instigate the so called “insurrection” than trump did. And all you can say about that is a limp noodle “so what”pathetic.
Once trump and all those responsible for 1/6 including fake electors are held accountable/behind bars and then I would be glad 'to get past it and move along' - EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM INCLUDING THE INCITER IN CHIEF
You get one more link to CBC after which Canadian conservatives will condemn you as being a far left troll.
HOW COULD ONE FORGET 1/6 AND IF SO, WHY ARE THEY COMMENTING ABOUT IT???????????
Your point?
Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH, THAT'S WHY
Do you even know what cancel culture, woke, SJW, etc., even mean?
Please tell us
Some folks do nothing but deflect among other things
Not the last one....not even close. Get real.
What's so special about January 6. It was a demonstration that got of hand because of a handful of radical right morons.
“…a handful of radical right morons.”
…thousands goaded into action to intervene in one of our most precious of birthrights…the peaceful, repeat peaceful, transition of power. And goaded into action by the sitting President who indubitably lost the election.
So yes, it is a day that will indeed live in infamy.
The phrase "attacking democracy" is a nice sound bite and I'm sure the majority of those protesting at the Capital on Jan 6th felt they were defending democracy from the evil bastards on the left who stole the election. Personally I really don't care what it's called. Those to entered the Capital were very wrong to do so. While there are some who planned on attacking the Capital I feel confident that there were many stupid people who just got caught up with the riot and entered the Capital without any real thought or plan. I base this on the simple fact that for the number of people who entered the Capital there was relatively little damage.
Those who entered the Capital are paying for their actions and the investigations continue as well as legal proceedings.
This is the first time in US history that a mob (thousands of people) rioted the Capitol (that includes its grounds) where hundreds of same engaged in violence to disrupt the proceedings of Congress.
The mob responded to the claims by the sitting PotUS who, for the first time in US history, bucked the peaceful transition and attempted through lies, coercion, subornation, and general abuse of the authority of the office of PotUS, to steal a US election.
That alone should illustrate why this event is historically significant (and 'special').
My question is why this need even be illustrated. Is it not obvious to everyone why Jan 6, 2021 is historically significant to the USA?
So I had to check out these events on the captial.
The first one was: Eric Muenter (March 25, 1871 – July 6, 1915), also known as Erich Münter , Erich Muenter , Erich Holt or Frank Holt , was a German-American activist and would-be assassin . Although employed as a German professor at elite American universities, he was actually a spy and a "fanatic in the clandestine service of the Imperial German government." [1]
He was German, acting out on behalf of Germany who we were heading into war with. I would classify this as an act of war.
The Puerto Rican nationalist attack is a gray area, since whether they like it or not, Puerto Rico is part of the US, and therefore, it was an attack on the country. The reason it's not quite the same as Jan 6, is that they were not trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power, but rather be rid of the US. It could be considered a civil war in a way.
The bombing in Laos had nada to do with anything about our democracy other than wanting us out.
The 1983 bombing of the senate by the Armed Resistance Unit was an attack on an institution they felt were too involved in Lebanon and Grenada.
There is really nothing close in our history to what happened on Jan 6.
Only England has any equivalent. Guy Faulks and his gang did try to take down Parlement, but as an institution and as an actual building. If you are talking about a threat to democracy, you have to look at what they were hoping to achieve.
Exactly.
Well sure. When you define something so narrowly that's going to happen. If the only way you can "attack democracy" is to participate in a riot on the exact day the election is certified, than sure, Jan 6th is unique. But there have been countless (actually deadly) attacks in our history trying to subvert Democracy.
. hell, one of my ancestors (a Chicago cop) was arrested after a riot at the polling place as part of a democratic plot using Chicago police to keep Republicans from voting in the 1880 Presidential election. Somehow the Republic survived and it was immediately forgotten about.
No one should have been there on Jan 6th. There was no actual basis for a so called protest. The "stolen election" was a figment of Trumps evil scheming, and nothing more. Donald Trump was going to do what he did , period, if he lost. He was going to do it in 2016 if he had lost, but didnt have to. The gullibility of MAGA is off the charts.
No one had a legitimate cause to be at the Capitol Building "protesting" that day. No one.
Sean,
The civil war was an attack on our democracy. The decision was after that period, and since then, nothing much has.
Of course, if someone tries to blow up our government in progress, that would be an attack on our gov.
I'm sure all the people murdered in the 1876 election, for instance, would disagree with that.
Again, that had to do with the Civil war and of course racism.
Well no, the Civil War ended in 1865. But that's my point, you just keep excluding all other "attacks on democracy" for one reason or another, then yes, of course, the riot on Jan 6th is "unique". Everything is unique when you pile qualification upon qualification. but sure, no other riot occurred on the capitol grounds, on Jan 6th, when it was 40 degrees outside and partly cloudy.
If it was such a stand alone egregious event, then why do democrats blatantly lie about the event?
For example Hakim Jeffries spoke at the memorial and claimed that 5 Police officers lost their lives during the event. (The only person who was killed was an unarmed civilian.) Check out 3:30 of the video:
Partisans lie, Vic. They push reality past the extremes in pursuit of partisan advantage.
The fact that partisans engage in lies (and exaggerations) does not change the reality of Jan 6th (and the context under which it happened ... the Big Lie).
Why do you try to downplay the significance of Jan 6th? Just blows my mind how people continue to defend Trump instead of standing up and noting (and condemning) the wrongdoing of Trump and make the statement that this should never happen again in our system.
SMH
You didn't say the same thing about all the people who were in Washington protesting on Jan 20th, 2017 now did you.
You don't get to decide for people if they have a reason to protest or not, it's not your decision to make. You can only put out your opinion and after your several hundred "I Hate Trump" seeds everybody knows your opinion.
If you want to do away with the First Amendment (Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.) there is a process to do so. I doubt that any such Constitutional amendment would pass however so if you really want to live where people cannot decide for themselves if they have something to protest about then I suggest maybe you should move to North Korea. Then you won't need to worry about what reasons people may have to assemble to protest as it will be officially spelled out by the government.
He said and I quote:
"As a result of what happened on Jan 6th lives of 5 heroic officers were loss."
He didn't say they were killed on that day. They committed suicide from what happened that day.
I just watched a blow-by-blow event of what those officers endured. I honestly don't know how any law abiding citizen could ever say that what happened on that day was anything less than an attack on our government, and the buildings it represents.
Sean,
You can look at 20 different murders, and see that courts gave out different sentences.The reason for that is that they look at the intent, and the actions taken that caused those murders.
Not all attacks on Gov buildings are for the same reason. I gave you one that was equal but not here, but in England, when Guy Faulks tried to take down Parlement.
I'm sorry that you don't look at the motivations, but I do. That takes more effort.
Officer Sicknick, who has been memorialized by Pelosi & co was found to have died from natural causes. Can you tell us who the other 4 were and how their deaths were related to the Jan 6 riot? Sorry, but all those who mention them have never explained.
Because it has been used politically.
Are you kidding? Trump is running again!
Yes! It is political! Trump caused Jan 6th!
I hear you. You want us to forget about it.
And how many democrats will once agian be voting for him in open primaries?
I do not know. NY is not an open primary state. But, we can still donate to Trump!
So we can forget about an indictment?
The Civil War ring a bell?
Damn, didn't even have to dig for that one.
So you intentionally present Jan 6th as less significant than it actually was (the meaning of downplay) because of partisan reasons.
Too bad so many refuse to work with plain truth instead of constantly twisting and 'downplaying' reality to suit their partisan desires.
Makes sense to me that a D would vote for Trump in an open primary. Do you blame them? Trump is a near guarantee win for the Ds.
Come on Vic, these 4 officers committed suicide within a few months talked about their trauma from that day. Police officers don't do that from one precinct for no reason.
As for Officer Sicknick, the death was ruled natural death from stroke, but this man endured being sprayed with an unknown chemical, sustained injuries during the attack, and then collapsed. Do you think that would have happened under any other circumstances?
Pay attention, Ronin, we were talking about attacks on the Capitol, not any event in American history.
Are you kidding? You might want to read up this thread. The Civil War was mentioned many times.
It can be argued that as many police officers die from suicide as in the line of duty. In none of the 5 cases is there a direct link to Jan 6th.
You did have one person killed on that day and Jeffries did not mention her.
I think it is disgusting the way democrats have used Jan 6th.
Don't be insulting.
Does the US civil war have anything whatsoever to do with the question of attacks on the Capitol building?
NOTE:
According to Joe Biden: "the Capitol riot on Jan. 6 as the worst attack on the U.S. since the Civil War."
Joe has linked them.
I think that two of the four suicides as well as Officer Sicknick's death have been found to be 'in the line of duty',
You bring in a quote from an entirely different context to 'link' concepts in a thread within a forum???
Now that is quite a creative poor tactic.
What is so special about Jan 6th, Vic? You can read my answer to Greg's question @11.1.88.
What is your answer?
By whom?
It has become a political weapon of the left, celebrated two days ago with speeches and bells ringing.
Obviously you have never watched what happened to these officers before backup came. And frankly, after watching it, I think they showed great restraint considering what the mob was doing to them.
And why would Jeffries mention someone who would have been arrested, had she not been killed. She had no business being where she was. Since when do we honor criminals?
And I think it's disgusting the way that Republicans backtracked on their initial reaction that day, because they felt it was bad for their party. And that is why there was no red wave. Because the party loyal will not acknowledge those events. Independents traditionally vote for the opposite party in power in midterms and this time they didn't and there is the reason why.
That is what makes the day special ... that it has been weaponized by your political adversaries???
That is more important to you than the fact that it was the first time in US history that a mob (thousands of people) rioted the Capitol (that includes its grounds) where hundreds of same engaged in violence to disrupt the proceedings of Congress ?
Partisans
Indeed ... and still do.
Really?
Whenever you put gas in your car or buy groceries or pay an electric bill it should become clear who you voted against.
I'm surprised you didn't notice the word I used in Post 11.1.93
I didn't say democrats commemorated that day. Notice I said they celebrated it!
I thought the same as I've watched the videos. There easily could have been a lot more than one killed that day.
His lies and all the other republican/gqp lies about 1/6 have been relentless
ZERO
They lied about the Jan 6th riot?
How so?
Oh, that's a relief. I only have your word though.
You never answer my questions. Why do you think I would answer yours?
It sounds familiar. Tell her we miss her.
They did not celebrate it - they memorialized/commemorated NEVER FORGET WHAT TRUMPTURD AND HIS ENABLERS/SUPPORTERS/FEELLOW PLANNERS ARE CAPABLE OF
You can't just keep making claims without supporting them.
if it's a contest, some traitorous fraud in florida already has a 27 month head start...
That would be you vic, your usual PP&D
My word is worth it's weight in gold
[Deleted]
I read your comment correctly. What makes you think my reply was based on a commemoration (I did not use that word)?
Like Benghazi ten times? Like the Keystone XL phase 4 pipeline cancelled 4 times now? Like Hillary's Blackberry and server? Like Nixon's and Agnew's tax evasion?
Like the diaries and laptops of a person's family?
You yourself use things politically multiple times a week.
SMH
Just as predicted, no answer - just the predicted deflection and some cryptic comment which only makes sense to the gqp
Gas prices have gone down. Food prices are up worldwide as is electricity. I am aware of what I did. How about women's rights are in danger, bump stocks are now OK, etc.
But more importantly, people want bipartisanship and if what we just saw with the election of the speaker is that your party is being hijacked by extremists. That is a very sad thing, for those of us who would like more moderation.
Wrong again, not surprised.
[Deleted]
--------------------
Inaccurate comment. Not surprised.
11.1.93
Or possibly, people want government that actually works for their best interests rather than the political and personal interests of parties and politicians.
Then stop making them and supporting others who do.
I am sure you don't really believe Vic meant celebrating like Catholics celebrate Mass
or Jews celebrate a person's life while sitting shiva, do you?
I think he meant celebrating like celebrating New Years or winning the lottery,
otherwise it's not a "political weapon" is it?
Damn that pesky English language.
Do you really think Vic was mocking a solemn event?
In the state of New York they are set in stone, as well as many other states. Whether it's left to the states individually or the Federal government the people will get to choose. Are you against that?
But more importantly, people want bipartisanship
According to the midterm elections, the people want it just barely.
And you are going to pretend that Pelosi & co aren't glad that it happened?
Pretend?
People have to be 100% twisted to believe that anyone wanted 01/06 to happen
or that a sitting, pouting POTUS would do nothing but "celebrate" the riot from the WH
for 3 or 4 hours.
His lament? The SS wouldn't take him there.
Pelosi? Everyone should have been equally saddened by the whole incident.
Well, Americans anyway.
Then I must be twisted because you see, the left has exploited the tragedy beyond reason.
“…the left has exploited the tragedy beyond reason.”
At least you acknowledge the tragedy.
The only exploitation comes from those whom continue to ignore the events leading up to that tragic day, those whom remarkably blame the outcome on those sworn to protect the process, and those, whom to this day, continue to politicize it sans any semblance of understanding as to the dangers they blindly defend.
No comment.
Just another opinion, congratulations.
According to Joe Biden it was worse than Pearl Harbor or 9/11.
whom to this day, continue to politicize it
Please think about that.
An obvious conclusion.
Many people shared the same conclusion about the 10 Beghazi hearings which McCarthy admitted were a political attack on HRC.
The last six were by committees of the Republican controlled House.
All 10 failed to bring charges against Clinton.
At that time you acted like Benghazi was worse than Pearl Harbor.
Spare us the drama.
I'm sick of that taunt that you have copied from some of your little buddies. Of course, nothing will be done about it, usually never is
Also, that's just your excuse for not knowing the truth of your allegations, like usual, you don't have/know the answer, just trying to impress those little buddies of yours
Democrats need to relearn history (not the demented CRT garbage they are pushing) and STFU.
... save the republican version of US history for comedy night.
Just watch the opening monologues of Jimmy Kimmel.
You get your talking points from a comedian?
I get my talking points from me. But do watch him sometime. You might see what a lot of people think about some of these republicans.
I think they are all for the most part clowns, Florida is insane for sending a tool like Mat Gaetz to Congress. And Georgia keeps sending the idiot who thought Guam might tip over back.
I never understand why anybody thinks there is anything special about someone who simply won a popularity contest against someone equally as bad.
On that we can agree.
He can actually be quite comical. I think it was last night they had a segment about how easy it is to scam people. Some people let a guy on the street scan their credit cards....
I've found it stunning that the left actually believes that rewriting history and brainwashing vulnerable people is a good thing for our nation.
Is projection and mis/disinformation all that you and ronin have?
"Nationalists Lolita Lebrón, Irvin Flores Rodríguez, Rafael Cancel Miranda and Andres Figueroa Cordero, carried out their attack in D.C., on March 1, 1954, from the gallery of the House of Representatives, where members were debating a bill concerning migrant Mexican workers."
We get the actual truth from these folks who also happen to be hosts of TV shows, actors, comedians, people from all walks of life and then use the truth/facts to form our own conclusions/opinions
and vic?
Some leftists get their news from comedians!
Under current economic conditions the jobless rate isn't very informative by itself. It's also necessary to look at the labor participation rate. Labor participation declined significantly during the pandemic (for obvious reasons) and hasn't recovered. At present there really does appear to be a 'black market' for labor that isn't being captured by the traditional employment statistics.
IMO retirement doesn't explain the persistent decline in labor participation. People surely didn't retire to increase their income; although retirees may experience an increase in disposable income. Some of what is being observed may be due to recognition that loss of net income doesn't necessarily mean a loss of disposable income.
The job statistics are a holdover from when the United States was a manufacturing economy. While it's far too early to draw any conclusions, there is sufficient information to support speculation that the US economy is transitioning toward a 'cottage industry' model. And the old industrial methods of measuring jobs and income won't work well for a 'cottage industry' model.
What I find amazing is a lot of the lefts selective outrage about Jan 6 after supporting the riots all year.
a group of liberal fucktards grabbed a piece of liberal cities and declared independent nations. They patrolled their borders and refused to allow authorities to enter and not 1 insurrection charge, but let 1 guy wearing a Buffalo costume scare the pussies in Congress and they lose their minds.
No one I know supported riots. They supported the actual protests and protestors. Again, with the histrionics and hyperbole from the right.
Did they not declare themselves independent nations?
Where did I say anything about them declaring themselves "independent nations"? Hint: I didn't. I refuted your point about the "lefts selective outrage about Jan 6 after supporting the riots all year". No one supported the riots, they supported the real protestors and legitimate protests not the rioters or riots.
And conservatives supported all the peaceful parts of Jan 6, even when the cowardly piece of crap shot an unarmed woman.
Again with the hyperbole and histrionics from you. That traitor got what she deserved. You don't enter a locked and barricaded room with armed guards on the other side of it. Her own actions got her killed.
And, yes, there were some peaceful protestors, they were the ones that didn't enter the Capitol and the ones who didn't construct gallows outside of the Capitol.
Conservatives also support the people that illegally entered the Capitol that day and the traitor that caused her own demise. All it takes is for you to actually read the comments here to see that.
She was unarmed, he is a cowardly piece of crap that bears no resemblance to an actual man.
She should have complied, and she shouldn't have tried to break into the chambers. She caused her own death, but thanks for telling us that you support a traitor.
I never said I supported her or her actions, I simply stated the undisputed fact that he is a coward. He lacks integrity and honor.
Your comments say differently. You support a fucking traitor by trying to denigrate the officer who shot her and you seem to support everyone who entered the Capitol with your comment about "1 guy wearing a Bufffalo costume". Your comments speak for themselves.
So all demonstrators and protestors are traitors? You don't seem to have a clue as what a "traitor" really is.
She was unarmed, climbing through a broken window, no warning was given, and she was no immediate threat to the cowardly cop.
I never said that either. Your reading comprehension need a lot of work. Never ever put words in my mouth. You're not even close to qualified to do so.
Babbit caused her own death, but thanks for telling everyone that you're another one who supports a traitor trying to break into chambers. Not to mention the fact that the chamber doors were locked and barricaded which is a clear sign that no one should attempt to enter. By breaking a window and crawling through it, she sealed her own fate.
Most people didn't support the riots or what happened in Washington and Oregon.
And it was not one guy in a Buffalo costume and you know it. It was a well planned attack by a group of people trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power. If Al Gore did this, you would have been all over the guy, and rightfully so.
Bullshit! Absolutely partisan bullshit and you have no idea how I would react if Gore did this! The absolute BS that you just pulled explains a lot.
you as the owner sets the tone, so telling me what I think explains TiG perfectly! He pulls that same BS because he knows he can get away with it.
Let me get this straight. If a bunch of people did the exact same thing for Gore, you would have been fine with it. Yet you are complaining about what happened in Washington and Oregon. There is the BS, plainly exposed.
And as the site owner, I am allowed to have an opinion, like everyone else here. The fact that I let you talk to me in that tone, shows that I am on the up and up with everyone here.
And the 3 of you who upvoted that comment, well, I have to say I have a different opinion of you now, in regard to our relationship.
There you go, veiled threats, I’m watching who is up voting comments.
How is that a veiled threat? I said what I feel. That is really clear. If they can upvote insults to me I can have feelings about it. Did you actually think that people don't look at upvoting? Give me a break.
I don’t, so once again you have gotten wrong what I think and or do.
“Did you actually think that people don't look at upvoting?”
So many wing men…so quick to condemn, so little to contribute.
Since this is going meta, please read my private note to you.
Please tell us all what was "well planned" about it? Name one damn thing? Did they manage to capture one politician? Did they secure the capital building? Did they set up barricades to stop the riot squad and national guard from moving in? Did they manage to foment insurgents from all across the country to rise up in rebellion? Did they even have firearms available? The answer to all that is no.
They couldn't even get enough of the protestors to join them to overwhelm the shitty security Pelosi and Co had in place. If they had even gotten half of those that attended the Jan 6th rally to join in the results may have been different.
The vast majority of rioters were too busy showing off taking self incriminating selfies. Or showing off for reporters (unlike Antifa and BLM who attacked them).
Or slow chasing a slow walking security guard. Just how stupid were they? They had the numbers to easily overwhelm the guy; but instead allow him to push them around, argue with him, and lead them away from the very place they are supposed to be capturing. So stupid it is comical. Definitely well planned and organized. There were more rioters recording the event than pursuing.
How about making sure to stay between the tether ropes set up by security when passing through the gallery? Ushered into the entrance by DC security; and right out the exit. Still charged with "parading".
This was a riot. The fact that Democrats, their shills in the media, and their lemming followers have been allowed to turn this into anything else after coddling the Summer of Love rioters is the height of hypocrisy.
You're not helping your case.
Your denial is desperate, pathetic, and deplorable
It was more than a 'riot' it was a planned, incited, failed insurrection, planned on the inside (trunpturd, fake electors, etc,) and outside with white nationalist/supremacist scum
Also your usual PP&D regarding the protests (summer of love as morons refer to it) and any looters, rioters, or arsonists were not legitimate protesters - mostly right wing plants and criminals (same difference)
The ENTIRE purpose of Jan 6 was to keep the electoral count from occurring. It was the purpose of Trump in everything he did and said leading up to and on that day, and it was the purpose of the 50,000 or whatever number it was that gathered at the Capitol Building. Of course the mob INTENDED to enter the Capitol Building and confront the legislators who would be voting to accept the electoral count. That is the only reason they were there. Of course they didnt all enter, there wasnt room inside for all of them, and many of them got cold feet anyway. That doesnt change what they wanted to do.
Ashley Babbitt was stopped 25 feet from the floor of the House of Representatives. What if she hadnt been stopped, if there was no armed cop at that door? What if she and the ret of the mob got into the House, and the members were still there? What would Babbitt have done, said lets everyone hold hands and pray? Perhaps she would have "just" got in their faces and screamed at them to stop counting the votes, and perhaps she would have physically attacked someone. The same for the rest of the mob. They were not there for peaceful protest. Peaceful protest is not breaking out windows and doors and going past barricades.
The idea that the only purpose of Jan 6 was peaceful protest that got out of hand is nonsense.
What were they supposed to be protesting by the way? Some garbage that their hero Trump concocted out of thin air?
That doorway is within spitting distance of where Ashley Babbitt was shot.
Why do you defend the insurrectionists and Trump?
Was it wrong for Trump supporters to break and enter the Capitol building to disrupt the proceedings of Congress?
Was it wrong for Trump to watch this occur and not do anything to curtail the violence for three hours (he even threw Pence under the bus via a tweet halfway through the insurrection)?
I believe that Officer Byrd had no choice but to shoot and may have well saved lives. Babbitt's anger issues and conspiracy beliefs got her killed.
He later admitted that he had no idea if she even had a weapon
So what? She was attempting to put the lives of US congresspeople in danger. Period. That is all the justification he needed.
The idea that its ok to break down doors and windows and enter the US Congress that way is "ok" because you didnt have a weapon is insanity. Babbitt was not the only one who wanted to enter, she was just the first traitor that climbed through the broken window. The idea that cop shouldnt have stopped her by any means necessary is ridiculous vic.
She was a threat to nobody.
The idea that its ok to break down doors and windows and enter the US Congress that way is "ok"
Yet it was more than "ok" to murder two dozen people during the 2020 riots?
Gaad, R partisans continue to try to pain Babbitt as an innocent bystander.
Innocent bystanders have not broken and entered the Capitol building to disrupt the proceedings of Congress and certainly are not climbing through an opening resulting from insurrections breaking down a doorway.
Nobody wants people to be killed but Babbitt was way over the line. (Most people, for example, understand that when stopped by a police officer for speeding, etc. that they should not make any gesture that looks as though they have a firearm.) It is a shame she is dead due to her emotional zeal and suppression of common sense, but she brought it on herself.
Completely ridiculous. Battering down a barricaded and locked door and breaking out a window to enter is an act of violence. Its not peaceful. Period. End of story. She and the rest of the mob that was breaking down the door with their fists were a violent mob. No one knows what they would have done had they gotten into the chamber and House members were still there. The Capitol police were hardly required to let that happen because MAYBE the mob would be peaceful once they got inside. The assumption is that people who are being violent right now will also be violent one minute later when they get inside.
You could live to be 1000 and never win this argument.
Did the George Floyd "rioters" attempt to forestall an election and keep a candidate illegitimately in power? It is totally apples to oranges.
Babbitt was among a mob of people that had gained access to a hallway outside “Speaker’s Lobby,” which leads to the Chamber of the House. This was at the same time as members were still in the chamber and were being evacuated. Officer Boyd was one of several officers that used furniture to barricade the glass doors separating the hallway and Speaker’s Lobby. The mob continued to attempt to break through the doors by breaking the glass with flagpoles, helmets, and other objects. Babbitt attempted to climb through one of the doors where glass was broken out. Boyd order her to back down when she continued trying to gain access, he fired one round.
There isn't any evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that use of force was unreasonable and used willfully in disregard of the law.
As I've said many times, if that's all it takes to use deadly force, we'd have a lot of dead left wing protestors.
You could live to be 1000 and never win this argument.
I won it the day Pelosi stacked that committee.
“You could live to be 1000 and never win this argument.”
He could live to be 100 and the dark day will be always be remembered and commemorated…as it is a reminder of how fragile, yet how resilient is our system of governance…regardless of those that may live to be 100 and will never, ever comprehend the near tragedy that occurred that day…and will deny it with their last gasp.
Tragic as well.
I regard you as a serious individual. Him firing that round has to carry the same standard we hold local cops to when they have to deal with thugs resisting arrest. In this case we have an unarmed woman, doing nothing different than the mobs that attacked police stations during the 2020 riots. Officer Boyd had a history of reckless actions. He admitted that he didn't know if she had a weapon. He was the only one who found the need to use deadly force. He got a pass.
You of all people should see that?
You havent won an argument since you've been here.
What does Nancy Pelosi and the committee have to do with the danger Ashley Babbitt created?
Like all right wing fanatics, you are all about grievance. Now you want to blame Pelosi for Trump trying to steal the election.
Some people, even here on NT, think we should try and meet in the middle with right wing fanatics. That is a recipe for disaster. What we have to do is defeat them ideologically, or electorally, or out last them.
[Deleted] Had he let babbitt come in she would have attacked him, as would anyone else who came through that window until they had enough people in there to remove the barricade. What do you want him to do, be shot with his own gun?
His job was to protect the people in the House chamber, which is what he did.
THEY refuse to meet us in the middle - those right wing fanatics
Complete waste of time even talking to them
And yet, you persist.
That's a matter of opinion John. I think we should let the reader decide.
What does Nancy Pelosi and the committee have to do with the danger Ashley Babbitt created?
Babbitt was never a danger. Why did people like AOC lie about where they were on that day?
Like all right wing fanatics, you are all about grievance. Now you want to blame Pelosi for Trump trying to steal the election.
I want the left to stop using a tragedy for political gain.
Some people, even here on NT, think we should try and meet in the middle with right wing fanatics. That is a recipe for disaster. What we have to do is defeat them ideologically, or electorally, or out last them.
[Deleted]
I'll always be disappointed that every one of the insurrectionists that entered the capitol that day didn't end up being carried out feet first and stacked like cords of wood on the mall. what did end up happening is the creation of 950+ martyrs to the cause of an autocratic/theocracy movement.
The problem you have John is you called the officer who shot Michael brown a murderer and argued endlessly that the shooting was Unjustified.
Not exactly, right or wrong he was a federal office and no local or state laws apply.
I have no doubt that like National Park Police and other federal officers involved in a shooting, had a less than thorough investigation from a sympathetic Justice Department. Morale was already low in the USCP and there would be no apatite to prosecute Boyd.
We will know more if the Babbitt family law suite goes forward.
She would have taken his gun away and shot him?
His job was to protect the people in the House chamber, which is what he did.
I think we should have had a legitimate inquiry.
Guess you'll just have to learn to live with your disappointment.
“Babbitt was never a danger. Why did people like AOC lie about where they were on that day?”
Babbitt was indeed a threat. AOC lied.
The two have absolutely nothing to do with one another and to equate them simply diminishes any argument in defense of the former and blaming the latter for the events that transpired.
That's a big part of the problem.
I have no doubt that like National Park Police and other federal officers involved in a shooting, had a less than thorough investigation from a sympathetic Justice Department.
You are a good man!
We will know more if the Babbitt family law suite goes forward.
It needs to. Especially now.
They have everything to do with each other. It's called politics.
That’s a bridge too far, vic.
Always amazes me when people complain about lying after they supported trump for years...
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
[Further meta will result in points.]
[deleted]
I never called the cop a murderer.
An inquiry of what? Whether or not he should have let a violent mob into the House of Representatives?
This is all ludicrous.
I never called the cop a murderer.
You certainly believed he should have been prosecuted for murder and posted untold amounts of times in support of prosecuting him. Much like pretty much everyone else here who believes the shooting of Babbitt was justified.
Brown was a much bigger threat to the officer that killed him than Babbitt was to the officer who shot her. I can see believing both shootings were justified, and arguing that Brown's shooting was justified and Babbitt's wasn't simply based on size and past violent behavior, but believing Babbitt was a threat and Brown wasn't is a bridge to far.
If the victim had been a unarmed black women rioting on behalf of abortion rights or whatever, I would bet your opinion changes.
No, a Use of Force investigation.
Exactly, so ludicrous that investigators cleared Byrd of wrongdoing in the shooting without actually interviewing him about the shooting. By avoiding any interrogation, Byrd never had to worry about saying anything that could have been used to incriminate him. Byrd told NBC that he gave Babbitt verbal warning to stand down, this was disputed by police officer eyewitnesses on the scene.
Given federal law and court precedents, I doubt that Byrd could have been found guilty of manslaughter beyond a reasonable doubt, but I don't doubt, that this was just a check the box investigation.
I'm sure that you are very used to life disappointing you by now.
Is your position that the voice clearly heard on the video recordings was not Byrd's? Even if it was a different officer, does that make a difference?
If a thousand people managed to break into the Pentagon chanting lets hang
Drinker, who would you want protecting your office, Babbitt or Officer Byrd?
I only saw the video posted by the Washington Post and I heard no police instructions.
Byrd of course, is that how a proper UOF investigation is conducted?
I haven't said that it was, I just said that I didn't hear in the audio what Byrd claimed. Did you hear it? Do you think a thorough investigation was conducted?
Where do you come up with this crap? Babbitt wasnt shot because she was a threat to the officer, she was shot because she was part of a violent mob trying to storm our national legislature.
It is mind boggling that you and others here believe that she and the others should have been allowed to.
Amazingly, she was the only one in the violent mob shot.
Seriously, it is amazing that only one of hundreds who invaded our Capitol wound up getting shot.
I suspect that if this occurs again, the future insurrectionists will not be as fortunate.
Is that how you understand the Jan 6th armed breaking and entering of the Capitol to disrupt Congress in session? It was merely one guy in a Buffalo costume? And the 'pussies in Congress' behaved improperly in your opinion because they quickly moved to safe quarters, called for order and then later reconvened to finish their work?
Note these are questions based on what you wrote. Gonna claim that these questions are just me telling you what you think? If so, get a better argument.
[deleted]
You have created an alternate fantasy world that DEMONSTRABLY has no relation to reality. We all can watch the insurrection on video and see that it was a violent breaking and entering of the Capitol. That should cause you to find fault with the mob who disrupted the workings of our system yet you dismiss this as merely "1 guy wearing a Buffalo costume scare the pussies in Congress and they lose their minds". Pathetic, 'George'.
The denial of reality is so unbelievably mindblowing, senseless
[deleted]
This kind of idiocy explains a lot of the problems we are having in this country right now. Illegitimate , ridiculous comments like this are treated by some who want to be "fair minded" as if they had some credence or basis.
Trying to be impartial.
The Jan 6 committee just released 2000 social security numbers of those the interviewed and or testified. Good job you ignorant morons.
So what? There must be a very good reason.
Fuck those vermin/scum who planned/plotted/incited 1/6 which includes trumpturd, fake electors, the white supremacist scum who trumpturd had incited to attempt their failed coup. Bunch of loser scum
How many people have the gqp and trumturd fucked over and doxed and lied for telling the truth?
BREAKING: The U.S. House votes to rescind over $70 billion in IRS funding that would have been used to hire 87,000 new IRS agents, 221-210.
With 0% chance the Senate or Biden sign on!
It don't work that way. Biden still has his bill, just not the funds for the IRS agents:
"The funding would have gone toward filling 87,000 IRS positions."
I didn't know that's how that would work. I know the House controls the purse strings but didn't know that they could repeal funding after a bill was passed.
I guess the three of us just learned something. It's good news.
The House is free to vote to reverse legislation anytime it wants. But this is just the House vote. Both the Senate and Biden must agree.
We may need more information. This article seems to indicate that this is a bill that will also need to pass the Senate as well as the WH signature.
The legislation has already been passed by the House & Senate and it was flown to a vacationing Biden and signed by him.
Every democrat in the House already voted against it. Not one of them can think for themselves. Pelosi made robots out of them.
As I noted, the House is attempting to reverse legislation passed by the House, Senate and signed by Biden.
The House has voted to do so. Now the Senate must vote to reverse the funding. Then Biden must sign the reversal.
Are you suggesting that this three-stage reversal process has already taken place? The the reversal legislation is now law?
Vic, good grief, 221 of 222 Rs voted for it. Surely if the Ds are 'robots' then the Rs are also 'robots'. (Congresspersons regardless of party are predominantly robots, by the way. The vote per party leadership dynamic is one of the major failures of our system.)
No the R's had one vote against.
You see, TiG, the point of the exercise was to show the American people how the democrats feel about the. If you are a small businessman who deals in cash transactions, you are now a target of the IRS. The government needs OUR money which they are spending like a drunken sailor.
Ya we know. Thanks.
True, they are just passing shyte because they can.
Not a surprise remembering how many things McConnell refused to consider in the past.
... republican virtue signaling, aka a public circle jerk.
Should not everyone pay their taxes?
The IRS reported last month they are delaying the new 1099-K reporting threshold. The reporting threshold of $20,000 in payments from over 200 transactions will remain in effect for 2023. There is also bi-partisan work in the Senate to change the threshold number from $600 to $10,000 or back to the original $20,000.
it's in the best interest of republicans to hide the taxable earnings of their benefactors and all the associated money laundering entities, like that big one down the street with a cross on the roof ...
What does "221 of 222" mean to you, Vic?
Further, if 221 of 222 Rs vote the same how do you see that as materially different from 212 out of 212 voting the same?
I am not in favor of more IRS agents since I know they are not going after the major tax evaders (Trump is one of them but he is small potatoes). Then again, I do not represent the Ds.
Your comment was odd. I noted on your prior comment that to reverse legislation we need new legislation and that the new legislation must be passed by the House, Senate and signed into law by the PotUS.
In response you speak of the original legislation already being passed.
Well ... yeah ... that is why the reverse legislation was needed.
If the gop won't give the IRS resources it needs to collect federal taxes then the gop cannot blame Democrats for rising deficits. Taxes do not collect themselves...
I have yet to see our government (regardless of party) take action against the large $$$$.
It is likely that they never will because they need those large $$$$ supporting them and enhancing their lives.
And I noted what the next budget would be like
87,000 new positions for border security and removing illegals in our country would be a good thing
That should have been the priority.
How do they get the votes they are getting???
Back in 2017 Mr Trump authorized 15,000 new hires
which resulted in a net gain of 80 agents.
Even though the pay seems good, guaranteed overtime etc.
Attrition at CBP ( just like the IRS )exceeds hiring and they can't get enough people to pass the
very high standards.
The housing is scarce and the amenities are few and far between along most of the border.
"House Republicans just voted unanimously to repeal the Democrats' army of 87,000 IRS agents.
This was our very first act of the new Congress, because government should work for you, not against you."
"Promises made. Promises kept".......Kevin McCarthy, Speaker of the House
he obviously didn't read the previous Bill.
Not surprising.
Even if this first dud could get passed the Senate,
Biden would veto it.
Virginia AG expands civil rights investigation to all of Fairfax County Public Schools
Too funny, a Questionable source, blocked as a "malicious site" by Norton Symantec virus software.
I clicked on a link last week and had to do a system restore to eradicate some ransomware.
How so? I use Norton Symantec and had no problem opening and reading the link Vic posted in comment 17 .
Mine either
I've used that site several times and no issues. Sounds more like somebody is making excuses.
So have I. it's approved by MBFC, too.
I had no problem opening it either.
think maybe it became a problem because they couldn't argue what was in it?
Ya think? Tell me that isn't so!
That happens to a lot of people who don't know how to verify before clicking.
Lucky you.
No it isn't, they have it rated as a Questionable Source.
Unfortunately NT uses the bar graph for "approval" and JTN barely qualifies.
Sorry to disappoint, but it has nothing to do with luck, but everything to do with education and knowledge.
We know.
Just about anything to the right of Chairman Mao "barely qualifies."
I know all about JTN and where it falls on MBFC, because I checked before I posted comment 17.1.5 . Per this site's rules, a website meets the acceptable criteria as long as the yellow circle doesn't fall into the radical red or blue arrows.
Odd that folks who've seeded from Occupy Democrats never get chastised.
Occupy Democrats
Great point!
Thanks for the CoC tutorial, but I've known this since I joined in late 2017.
And yet you make baseless public claims about the site and moderation in this thread in violation of the CoC.
I opened it again and while scrolling the article
something triggers the malicious popup for something related to pcsupport.com
I found the article elsewhere, more crying over something the school district has already recognized and fixed.
A State Attorney general has time for this nonsense?
The National Merit awards used to be prestigious, but not so much any more.
The FCPS recognized the problem and addressed it.
The students and colleges they applied to were notified.
Statement on Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology Delay in Sharing National Merit Scholarship Corporation Recognitions | Fairfax County Public Schools (fcps.edu)
The Governor and AG are overreacting.
The Constitution forbids separate standards based on race.
Where the fuck has anyone alleged that race is the basis for what happened in the school district?
Have you ever seen the diversity of TJHS? It's a magnet school for the brightest
science and engineering nerds.
Someone at the School District level retired and the replacement wasn't trained to know it was her/his responsibility.
Amid probe, more Virginia high schools apologize for withholding news of academic awards (yahoo.com)
Tempest in a teapot time, again.
Fits right in with their policy of prioritizing equity over education:
every person involved in with this insanity should be fired.
Thanks for the info.
One has to wonder how these other organizations rank TJHS number 1 out of 94,000 high schools.
It doesn't appear to have injured anyone.
I guess the AG will figure out if the FCPS website is misstating the truth and fire them as well.
Still, it seems like bombing the village to kill a mosquito.
That we really don't know. A National Merit Award can help a student gain access to a college and because these students had to apply to colleges without knowing that they had received the award could have prevented someone from gaining admittance to a better college. That can impact future earnings. There are also scholarships associated with this award. So there can be an impact. Based on statements made from the district, they were more interested in equity than recognizing outstanding students and their actions could impact future earnings for all students impacted. Entrance into some colleges is highly competitive.
true, difficult to guage.
also true.
The operative word being "could". The school board claims that all students, parents and colleges involved were notified.
The maximum award is a one time "gift" of $2,500.00 for freshman year. Very material to some, insignificant to others looking at $200,000 in student loans.
The outstanding students in a school of outstanding students ranked as the #1 magnet high school in the nation on several high school rankings?
Definitely, but many of the most competitive schools don't care about, or work with the National Merit Awards programs anymore including all of the Ivy League Schools, Stanford and MIT where most of these science and engineering students apply.
Do colleges care about National Merit Semifinalist? - TimesMojo
Since he refuses to resign, this is what has to happen. This article doesn't even mention the tens of thousands of Americans who died of Fentanyl poisonings (not overdoses) or cartels allowed to bring sex trafficking into the US.
There hasn't been an administration official impeached in a long long time.If it goes there, House democrats will fight hard.
He will never get convicted in the Senate.
However, the country needs to hear it.
Correct.
And Fox News has diligently reported on all aspects of the border crisis that Biden created since Day One.
The Democrat controlled Senate will never convict so the Republicans need to be very open and publicly show all evidence on how bad this really is.
I agree 100%.
A novel idea! Let the American people know what is going on!