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Biden drops out of the 2024 presidential race, leaving the Democratic nomination open - CBS News

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  tig  •  3 months ago  •  294 comments

By:   Kathryn Watson (CBSPolitics)

Biden drops out of the 2024 presidential race, leaving the Democratic nomination open - CBS News
Biden is the first sitting president to drop out of running for reelection since Lyndon B. Johnson in 1968 — leaving the race against Donald Trump in turmoil.

This is uncharted territory but might be the best chance our nation has at this point to prevent Trump from securing the power of the presidency.


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


President Biden announced Sunday that he is dropping out of the 2024 presidential race, a seismic event that will leave Democrats scrambling to select his replacement just weeks before their convention.

"While it has been my intention to seek reelection, I believe it is in the best interest of my party and the country for me to stand down and to focus solely on fulfilling my duties as president for my term," Mr. Biden posted in a statement on social media.

Mr. Biden said he would address the nation later this week.

Former President Donald Trump, who was officially nominated by the Republican party on Thursday night, told CNN after the decision that Mr. Biden is the "worst president by far in the history of our country," but he said that he thought if Vice President Kamala Harris is the nominee, she would be easier to beat than Mr. Biden.

Never before has a sitting president and presumptive nominee dropped out of the race so late in the process, and Mr. Biden's decision to do so underscores the severity of the crisis that enveloped his campaign after his disastrous debate performance against Trump.

In the days following the debate, a growing chorus of Democrats openly expressed concern over the president's health and mental state, his ability to defeat Trump in November and his capacity to lead the country for four more years. The pressure to step aside steadily increased as Democratic lawmakers and governors went days without hearing from Mr. Biden directly, allowing questions about his future to swirl within the party ranks. And a growing number of Democrats on Capitol Hill publicly called for him to step aside.

In the weeks since the debate, the president tried to push back, insisting in a series of public appearances and meetings with Democratic elected officials that he was committed to staying in the race. "I'm not going anywhere," he vowed. But even longtime allies began to urge him to change course.

The pressure eventually became insurmountable, with top Democrats in Congress telling Mr. Biden that he should step aside and allow a replacement to face off against Trump in November.

Mr. Biden is the first sitting president who is eligible for reelection to decline to run again since President Lyndon Johnson stepped aside the spring before the 1968 election. Johnson's vice president, Hubert Humphrey, won the Democratic nomination that year and lost to Richard Nixon.

Only a handful of first-term presidents in American history have not sought a second term, the last being Rutherford B. Hayes, who declined to run again in the 1880 election. James Buchanan and James Polk also chose not to seek the presidency a second time. Calvin Coolidge, who assumed the presidency in 1923 after the death of Warren Harding, won his own term in 1924 and declined to seek another full term four years later.

A disastrous debate


For months, the Biden campaign and allies reassured the public that the president was up to the rigors of leading the free world, often dismissing questions about his age and fitness even as polls consistently showed Americans had concerns. Mr. Biden would be 86 at the end of a second term.

But on the night of the debate on June 27, over 50 million Americans watched the president, lacking his teleprompter and without notes, struggle not only to refute Trump, but to articulate his own policies. Mr. Biden, never the most eloquent speaker, repeatedly lost his train of thought and confused his answers, at one point saying his administration "beat Medicare."

The flubs baffled members of his own party, many of whom soon recognized the political peril of having Mr. Biden at the top of the ticket if the overwhelming majority of voters considered him not fit to serve.

Before winning the White House in 2020, Mr. Biden called himself a "bridge" to a new "generation of leaders," causing many to wonder if he would only serve one term. In the aftermath of the debate, he explained that his thinking had changed, and the divisiveness in the country led him to believe only he could defeat Trump.

After days of his campaign and other allies trying to contain the fallout, the dam had broken, and the president faced pressure from a growing number of Democrats on Capitol Hill to step aside and let a new nominee step up to the plate. He resisted that pressure for more than a week, defiantly and publicly stating that he would not drop his reelection bid. But he continued to misspeak in interviews and speeches, doing little to allay concerns about his ability to win in November.

Calls for him to step aside died down in the aftermath of the failed assassination attempt of Trump on July 13. But behind the scenes, Democratic leaders in Congress were reportedly urging him to make his exit, and polls showed large majorities of Democratic voters saying they preferred a different nominee. News of that private pressure campaign began to break on July 17, coinciding with a call from powerful Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff for Mr. Biden to drop out.

The Democratic National Committee also pushed back a virtual vote that would have cemented Mr. Biden's status as the nominee, saying on July 17 that plans for a quick resolution would be pushed back until August. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries were said to have encouraged the party's rules committee to delay the vote.

What happens next?


States have already held their primaries, meaning Democratic voters have no time or mechanism to pick a replacement directly. At this point in the process, it's up to Democratic delegates — state and local party officials who were selected during the primaries — to decide who will replace Mr. Biden at the top of the ticket, either at August's Democratic National Convention in Chicago or beforehand. However it ultimately happens will be a logistical nightmare for Democrats in the weeks ahead.

The convention is scheduled to begin Aug. 19 in Chicago.

The party affirmed Friday it would hold a virtual roll call between Aug. 1-7 to formally select a nominee to ensure access to the ballot in Ohio. amid a dispute about the state's ballot certification deadline. Whether that happens now that Mr. Biden has dropped out remains to be seen.


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TᵢG
Professor Principal
1  seeder  TᵢG    3 months ago
"While it has been my intention to seek reelection, I believe it is in the best interest of my party and the country for me to stand down and to focus solely on fulfilling my duties as president for my term," Mr. Biden posted in a statement on social media.

I think so, but it is a political Hail Mary.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @1    3 months ago

I don't agree at all that it's a Hail Mary this is going to energize the Democrats maybe to a level they haven't been in a long long time

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1    3 months ago

It is a Hail Mary because we are so late in the election season and thus are in entirely uncharted territory with many unknowns.   If Biden had stepped out prior to the primaries then this would be an entirely different situation.

A party’s presumptive presidential nominee has never stepped out of the race so close to the election.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.1.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1    3 months ago

It didn’t work for Dems after Truman and Johnson.  But they bowed out leaving more time the country to know their replacement candidates.  Maybe it will work with only 3 months left.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.2    3 months ago

I don't agree 3 months and a couple weeks is more than enough time to do what needs to be done

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.3    3 months ago

In the days before instantaneous communication it might not have been enough time but today no there is enough time

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.1.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.3    3 months ago

I said that less time might be an advantage since more time wasn’t in 56 or 68. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.6  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.3    3 months ago

We will now get a very good idea of Trump's appeal outside of his cult.   

The cult will of course stick with Trump.   Will the Ds now coalesce around the new nominee?   I think so.

So, as usual, the critical factor will be how the independents in the swing states compare Trump (78, with his historically considerable baggage and being unfit to hold any political office) with Harris (59, with her less than stellar performance as VP).  

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
1.1.7  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.5    3 months ago

And he said communication then and now are light years apart, making it less of an issue.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.7    3 months ago

So we agree, it’s less of an issue.  

It will may also make Chicago more TV fun.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1.1.9  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1    3 months ago
this is going to energize the Democrats maybe to a level they haven't been in a long long time

So the belief is democrats are going to react to being manipulated and told ridiculous lies about Biden's health for years, by getting even more excited to support one of the chief promoters of that lie?  I guess alot of people cling to their abusers.

Truly cult like behavior from Democrats . 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.10  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1    3 months ago

As you know, JR, "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things" (The Shawshank Redemption) but when historian Allan Lichtman was right 9 times out of 10 and he predicts that Trump will beat Harris or any other Democrat now, the Dems are going to need more than your hopes and prayers. 

I'm really starting to believe that the roadblocks, bans and walls that America has been dealing to China has invoked what has been reputed to be (although not proven) the ancient Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times" because I don't think anyone can deny right now that these are "interesting times".

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.10    3 months ago

I'm aware of what Lichtman said, but I think he's applying past criteria to what is a whole different kettle of fish this time. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.12  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.11    3 months ago

Tell you what, JR.  I see only one possibility for the Dems to beat the Republicans in November, and that is if most of the women of America have enough respect for themselves, for their personal rights and freedoms, and refuse to allow politicians and courts to dictate what they can and can't do with their own bodies, and they get off their asses and vote for their personal freedom in November, because if they don't it's because they want to remain "second class" and live out their lives as "handmaidens".  There are a lot of women who DO have the motivation and intelligence to do what is best for themselves (and for the nation), but if enough had taken a stand already the Republicans would have been decimated by now.  As for those who meekly acquiesce to their husbands' control, they can damn well LIE to their husbands that they voted for Trump and their Republican oppressors when they did otherwise, if they've got the balls to do the right thing.

 
 
 
shona1
Professor Quiet
1.1.13  shona1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.12    3 months ago

Evening...

If a partner asked/told me who to vote for... it would be their first and last time..it is no one's business who votes for whom..

People seemed to be totally obsessed with who you vote for..and it's not even compulsory..

Thank goodness they only spent 15 minutes on the news tonight re Biden..was 30 minutes on Trump re the attempt..

There is hope for our media yet...

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.14  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  shona1 @1.1.13    3 months ago

I think it's a dream that nobody is influenced by their spouses, peers and/or the media.

"There is hope for our media yet..."

I doubt it.  I've told this story plenty of times.  Back in the late 1950s when I was the editor of my university newspaper our model was The Christian Science Monitor, not only for its format but also for its content - it was NOT then and still not a religious medium.  Year after year back then it won the national award for being the LEAST biased newspaper.  It has leaned somewhat left since then.  The fact that that award is no longer presented to ANY newspaper is for obvious reasons. 

 
 
 
shona1
Professor Quiet
1.1.15  shona1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.14    3 months ago

It is very different here Buzz..out of all my rellies I would not know who votes for who.. couldn't tell you who my friends vote for and that is much the same everywhere..

No one really discusses it and no one cares..as it's no ones business...

If people stopped sprouting out who they do and don't might not be half the trouble in the States as there is now...

If political adds come on TV most people laugh and bag them out as everyone knows it's all BS and a standing joke..

What they say and actually do is two different things...most of the pollies have their snouts in the trough...

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
1.1.16  sandy-2021492  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.14    3 months ago
I think it's a dream that nobody is influenced by their spouses, peers and/or the media.

My grandfather wouldn't take my grandmother to vote on Election Day during most of their marriage.  He was a Republican, she liked the Dems, but she never learned to drive.  He was afraid her vote would cancel out his, so he just...wouldn't take her.  So she didn't get to vote.

My Dad was so upset when he found that out.  "I'd have taken her myself, if I'd only known."  But she wouldn't say anything against Grandpa, and Dad left the house right after high school to join the Army, so he never knew.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.2  Tacos!  replied to  TᵢG @1    3 months ago
I believe it is in the best interest of my party and the country for me to stand down

It’s arguably the most patriotic thing he’s ever done. It’s extraordinarily hard for people to give up power - especially the level of power and control wielded by the President of the United States.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.1  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Tacos! @1.2    3 months ago

Fully agree.   Also, it is incredibly difficult for a proud individual to acknowledge his own shortcomings.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.2  devangelical  replied to  Tacos! @1.2    3 months ago

it was an amazing act of patriotism, now seemingly unique to one party...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @1.2.2    3 months ago

Exactly, people are still saying the same about LBJ.

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Quiet
1.2.4  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Tacos! @1.2    3 months ago
It’s arguably the most patriotic thing he’s ever done.

Perhaps. Something struck me, this weekend, listening to all of the comments being made on the various networks though. I heard, repeated several times, when he "learned" he was stepping down as the nominee. Funny choice of terms, but I heard it more than once, from different people. Looking into that too much? Maybe. But still, very odd that this is the term chosen, learned. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.2.5  Tacos!  replied to  Transyferous Rex @1.2.4    3 months ago

I’d like to see that. Can you link to any of them?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.3  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @1    3 months ago

... and there it is. I would have waited...

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.4  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @1    3 months ago

There is no way in hell that Kamala Harris can win a national election. Joe had no choice but to pass the torch to her but she is simply not qualified to carry it. The Dems are going to have to start fresh at the convention, and right now their stable is lacking any warhorses.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.4.1  bugsy  replied to  Greg Jones @1.4    3 months ago

I think it is hilarious that 4 short years ago she had to drop from the race before any primary because no one wanted her, garnering less than one percent of the cote. Now, four years later, she is supposed to be the savior of the democratic party?

Do you think the lemmings that did not like her four years ago are going to go to the democrat drumbeat and do what they are told?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.4.2  JBB  replied to  bugsy @1.4.1    3 months ago

Have you forgotten that four years ago Vice President Harris gave President Biden the winning edge with women and minorities to whoop Trump's fat lying ass? Harris still has that big win going for her...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.4.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @1.4.2    3 months ago
Have you forgotten that four years ago Vice President Harris gave President Biden the winning edge with women and minorities

Exactly, everybody knows that many vote for the vice president and not the top of the ticket.  The VP candidate may be more important to woman and minorities.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.4.4  evilone  replied to  Greg Jones @1.4    3 months ago
There is no way in hell that Kamala Harris can win a national election.

Interesting... Prior to the Trump shooting, Harris polled 3 points higher than Trump nationally - after it was  tied. We'll see all sorts of polling this week, including in swing states and we'll know.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.4.5  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @1.4.1    3 months ago
Now, four years later, she is supposed to be the savior of the democratic party?

This is not difficult to comprehend.

The D party needs to quickly replace Biden.   The logical choice for many reasons is Harris.   Harris is not a strong candidate in my estimation but she is a decent one.   And here is the key point, bugsy, when compared to Trump in terms of being presidential, integrity, age, intelligence, character, etc. she is a giant (as are most viable candidates).

Couple Harris with a grounded governor like Josh Shapiro and the Ds have a ticket that people could actually vote for rather than simply voting against Trump.

The nation (the electorate) now has the opportunity to put a team in the White House that is similar to all others in history rather than empower a vindictive, loose-cannon narcissist who demonstrably will abuse the powers of his office for his own purposes rather than serve the nation.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2  Tacos!    3 months ago

Good for him. Could have done it earlier, but I’m glad he’s doing it now.

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
2.1  MonsterMash  replied to  Tacos! @2    3 months ago

Who told Joe to drop out, was it God or his doctors?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  MonsterMash @2.1    3 months ago

Lots of people have been telling him. They say he just decided to do it today.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @2.1.1    3 months ago

I'm wondering how long Trump is going to milk this?

512

He's being treated by his former WH military doctor Captain Ronnie Jackson who is now a TX House Rep.

Jackson wrote that no one could be much luckier in terms of almost losing one's life.

But there were no sutures involved in the repair, no hole, no loss of flesh

just swelling.  Yet the bandage seems to have gotten larger and larger since Sunday.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.1.3  Tacos!  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.2    3 months ago
I'm wondering how long Trump is going to milk this?

Oh, forever. He won’t have a bandage forever, but he will talk about it - in conspiratorial terms - forever.

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Silent
2.1.4  squiggy  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.2    3 months ago

That was old news yesterday240720-trump-rally-wm-232p-935df8.jpg

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Silent
2.1.5  squiggy  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.2    3 months ago

Since you're really into the symbolism, it was the same day Commander Covid couldn't keep his disease to himself.

240720-biden-ch-1231-fe1421.jpg

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3  seeder  TᵢG    3 months ago
“Today I want to offer my full support and endorsement for Kamala to be the nominee of our party this year,” he said in another post on X. “Democrats — it’s time to come together and beat Trump.”

She is of course the likely successor given her access to campaign funds and the fact that many people would expect the V.P. to move to the head of the ticket.   

But these are very strange times and Harris is not (by far) the best candidate, so all bets are off as to what will now take place.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @3    3 months ago

... looks like trump is wearing the "too old" yoke now. harris should be the leading choice and the VP choice is now critical.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.1  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  devangelical @3.1    3 months ago

Good point on old man Trump.

The VP choice is critical.   As with Bush 43 and Obama, Harris needs a solid VP with gravitas.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.2  Tacos!  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.1    3 months ago
The VP choice is critical.

It is hard to bypass the sitting VP as the lead on the ticket. If they go with Harris, I would expect her to pick one of the other leading candidates - Gretchen Whitmer, for example, would probably sew up Michigan nicely. 

At this point, it might not be financially practical for anyone else to be the nominee.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
3.1.3  Thomas  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.2    3 months ago

At this point, it might not be financially practical for anyone else to be the nominee.

Expect lawsuits challenging the funding mechanisms and the processes used to pick whomever is chosen for VP.

MAGA can say that they dislike the propensity to take things to the Justice System, but that is only when the lawsuit is against they or theirs. As we have seen on multiple occasions over many years, Trump et.al. have absolutely no compunction against filing for their interests, even if it is bullshit on the face of it. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.4  Kavika   replied to  TᵢG @3.1.1    3 months ago

Mark Kelly.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.5  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Kavika @3.1.4    3 months ago

Good guy; great resume.   I would prefer a governor though.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
3.1.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.5    3 months ago

Yes, experience in the executive branch of a goverment would be a plus.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.7  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.5    3 months ago

It has to be Harris and it will be Harris. To put a white guy in there over her would risk some of the black vote and the womens vote and I simply dont think they will take that risk. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
3.1.8  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.6    3 months ago

Except she was never successful at anything Joe assigned her to. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.9  Kavika   replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.6    3 months ago

 Military, NASA, well educated, and most importantly is a democrat that won back to back elections in a republican state now a swing state and a border state and great name recognition.

 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
3.1.10  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kavika @3.1.9    3 months ago

He's certainly not a bad candidate at all, and I'd vote for him over many.  It's just that, if I were able to have my druthers, those elections would have been gubernatorial rather than legislative.  The jobs are just different, and call for different strengths.

I think he could do the job.  But it would require a steeper learning curve than for somebody who had already been a governor or lieutenant governor.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.11  JohnRussell  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.10    3 months ago

Trump was a game show host and business con man and he got elected. The landscape has changed and I dont think "executive experience" will be a determining factor in the future. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
3.1.12  sandy-2021492  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.11    3 months ago

I'm not talking about just getting elected.  I'm talking about doing the job well.  I think we can both agree that Trump did not, at least in part because he didn't know what the hell he was doing.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.13  Kavika   replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.10    3 months ago

I understand what you are saying but I would go with him over some of the named candidates that are governors. Shapario has only been governor for a year. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.14  Tacos!  replied to  Kavika @3.1.4    3 months ago

A smart choice, I think.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.1.15  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @3.1.4    3 months ago
Mark Kelly

I've posted a list of excellent, well-qualified candidates a couple of times on here the last few days and Mark Kelly is definitely on the list.  I think he would be a great choice.  I included at least three Governors - Andy Beshear, Roy Cooper and Tim Walz.  Also from the Senate, I believe Michael Bennet, Mark Warner and Jack Reed would be excellent choices.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.16  JBB  replied to  Gsquared @3.1.15    3 months ago

Bennett is a very attractive VP candidate...

original

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
3.1.17  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Gsquared @3.1.15    3 months ago

Do you really think that they will challenge Harris and risk the wrath of the institutional Dem Party.  If they did and lost in the general that would be the end of their national ambitions.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.18  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.7    3 months ago

My comment presumed Harris is the head of the ticket.   I was considering her running mate.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.19  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1.17    3 months ago

I think we are all discussing the VP candidate with Harris as the presumed top of the ticket.

At least I am since my comment @3 established the presumption of Harris as the presidential candidate.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.20  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.19    3 months ago

According to MSNBC tonight, the party is quickly consolidating behind Harris.  They are saying she may enough pledged delegates by the middle of the week. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.21  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.20    3 months ago

And that makes sense.   Harris is the easiest logistical path at this late stage.   The Ds absolutely must consolidate behind a single candidate now to have any chance to pull this off.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
3.1.22  Split Personality  replied to  Gsquared @3.1.15    3 months ago

I doubt they would sacrifice a Senator with the balance in the Senate being so close.

It will be most likely be a Governor

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.23  Kavika   replied to  Gsquared @3.1.15    3 months ago

Walz is a great choice as are the others. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.24  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.22    3 months ago

And it should be IMO.   A governor brings the best executive experience possible to the executive branch (short of being an incumbent).

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.1.25  Gsquared  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1.17    3 months ago

My comment was about possible Vice-Presidential picks.  That seems to be obvious to everyone, except you apparently.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.1.26  Gsquared  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.22    3 months ago

That is a very good point, SP.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.27  evilone  replied to  Thomas @3.1.3    3 months ago
Expect lawsuits challenging the funding mechanisms and the processes used to pick whomever is chosen for VP.

Why? Their is no process or funding for picking a VP. If their is any issue it would be how Primary delegates were moved from Biden to whomever, but that can only be challenged by Party members AND after the Conference.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.28  evilone  replied to  Kavika @3.1.4    3 months ago

I too like Mark Kelly. He polls well, but so does Whitmer. I think the running mate will also dictate the campaign messaging. If it's Witmer it will be Women Power, if it's a guy like Kelly then it will anti-Trump extremism and a functioning government. 

No one has expressed any thoughts on the House race. This is probably the number one reason Biden dropped out. With Biden on the Ticket, the Dems had written off flipping the House. This week changes that.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
3.1.29  Thomas  replied to  evilone @3.1.27    3 months ago

Because the Rs can. There was an FEC person on the radio this morning saying there were "questions" over the use of the campaign funds that Biden/Harris ticket had raised and whether or not it was legal to transfer those funds. Remember, this is the party of Trump and Trump has never been reluctant to bludgeon with litigation anyone who he sees as a threat. It is quite comical watching Trump play the "victim of the courts" when he has used them many times.

The CotUS is silent on the issue of selection of candidates, but that won't stop the Republican Propaganda  Machine from making hay out of the "millions of voters who have been disenfranchised". It does not matter it's legality, and the Trump camp seems blind to irony.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.30  evilone  replied to  Thomas @3.1.29    3 months ago
Because the Rs can.

I don't pretend to understand all the intricacies of campaign funding, but I would have to assume the Trump people would have no standing at any lawsuit. I don't see them showing direct harm.

There was an FEC person on the radio this morning saying there were "questions" over the use of the campaign funds that Biden/Harris ticket had raised and whether or not it was legal to transfer those funds.

Then that would be up to FEC to investigate and bring charges, not the RNC. 

I'm reading online in more than one article that anything sent to the the Biden/Harris campaign can still be used by Harris. If someone else runs at the top of the ticket, all those funds sent directly to Biden/Harris would have to be returned. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.31  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @3.1.22    3 months ago
I doubt they would sacrifice a Senator with the balance in the Senate being so close.

agreed. the VP choice shouldn't sacrifice any advantage held in red or swing states unless the candidate is at the end of a term limited office.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.32  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  evilone @3.1.27    3 months ago
Why? 

As a tactic to disrupt the D recovery process.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.33  evilone  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.32    3 months ago
As a tactic to disrupt the D recovery process.

They still need standing, and wasting time (and money) with frivolous lawsuits doesn't sound smart, so... yeah that first one should come today?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.34  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  evilone @3.1.33    3 months ago

We have seen how well delay tactics and frivolous motions can work to one's advantage.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.35  evilone  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.34    3 months ago

The only people having any authority here is the FEC and they would have to take the time to gather data and reports. Something that would take weeks, if not months.

The MAGA House might 'open and investigation'. Something they like to waste time on, but that does nothing. 

I don't see any DC court entertaining any MAGA lawsuit on this issue. What data can they show prior to the Convention in Chicago? It would be worse than the election fraud cases that got thrown out. It wouldn't even slow down Dem campaign spending for a second.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.36  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  evilone @3.1.35    3 months ago
The MAGA House might 'open and investigation'. Something they like to waste time on, but that does nothing. 

The Ds need to scramble to ensure Harris is on the ballot in all 50 states.   I fully expect MAGA lawsuits to try to hinder / delay that process.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.37  evilone  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.36    3 months ago

Yeah. That's a different argument. Still I don't see where they can do much more than make noise. Courts traditionally err on the side to not disrupt candidates as they did with Trump. The nomination is not binding until the Convention vote next month. We'll see what shenanigans they try to pull, though. 

I'm not familiar this source, but I here's what they have to say on ballot issue...

A June memo from the Heritage Foundation’s Oversight Project argued: “If the Biden family decides that President Biden will not run for re-election, the mechanisms for replacing him on ballots vary by state. There is the potential for pre-election litigation in some states that would make the process difficult and perhaps unsuccessful.”

and on the funding issue..

One Democratic appointee to the FEC, Dara Lindenbaum, said Sunday on X she agreed that Harris  could inherit the funds. “They can bring an FEC complaint. Good luck with that,” said one Democratic election lawyer.
 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.38  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  evilone @3.1.37    3 months ago

Hard to predict what will happen, but to me it is easy to predict that the GOP will use every slimy trick it can think of to derail the Ds.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.39  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.38    3 months ago

they seem to be very competent in alienating potential voters by promoting unamerican concepts...

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
3.1.40  Thomas  replied to  evilone @3.1.30    3 months ago

The FEC Chairman was saying that the issue of funding would have to be looked at. 

Well, again, I think it's going to have to go through a process through the FEC. I think I expect there's going to be probably challenges to that at the agency and probably in the courts, as well.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.41  evilone  replied to  Thomas @3.1.40    3 months ago

Interesting. So We've got a Republican on the FEC saying they are going to look at it and a Democrat on the FEC saying Harris already has her name on the paperwork and can still use it. They seem a little divided on the issue.

I'm 98% positive the courts will say they have no jurisdiction on federal election spending.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.1.42  Gsquared  replied to  evilone @3.1.41    3 months ago

The FEC is divided with three Democratic members and three Republicans.  It has been at a complete stalemate for years and nothing gets done.  Unless something has changed recently it remains a toothless organization at this point.  Because of the stalemate with a three to three split, I don't believe they have the ability to conduct any investigations despite what the Republican member says.

Even if an investigation is initiated, there is almost no time left to do anything before the election.

It won't even get to a court having to make a decision about the FEC's jurisdiction.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.43  evilone  replied to  Gsquared @3.1.42    3 months ago
Even if an investigation is initiated, there is almost no time left to do anything before the election.

I agree it's ineffectual and the timeline is too tight. One guy online stated that there really is not transfer of funds anyway. 

It won't even get to a court having to make a decision about the FEC's jurisdiction.

I was thinking we were talking about some Republican group trying to halt Harris campaign spending by filing a lawsuit in...say Texas or Louisiana. The courts would drop that pretty quick... 

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.1.44  Gsquared  replied to  evilone @3.1.43    3 months ago
One guy online stated that there really is not transfer of funds anyway. 

That's the contention that has been made over the last couple of weeks since the possibility of Biden dropping out of the race came up.  I think it's valid.  

some Republican group trying to halt Harris campaign spending by filing a lawsuit in...say Texas or Louisiana. The courts would drop that pretty quick

Undoubtedly they would "forum shop" and file in the jurisdiction where the lunatic fringe Judge Kacsmaryk is the sole judge and gets assigned all of the cases.  He would definitely grant their request.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
3.1.45  Thomas  replied to  evilone @3.1.43    3 months ago
I agree it's ineffectual and the timeline is too tight. One guy online stated that there really is not transfer of funds anyway. 

That does not stop the Trump Campaign from claiming that it is crooked. That is all it has to do.

This is not about truth. The Trump campaign cares nothing for that.

This is not about Jurisprudence, because the Trump campaign cares less for that.

This is about winning at all costs. That is what Trump does. That is who Trump is.

The only way to beat him is to make him sound as foolish as he is as much of the time as possible. Point out and call out every fallacy. The true MAGA will not listen because he is their Savior... Or at least they think he is. But others can and will listen. 

Point to the obvious lies and call them out. From what little I saw of the convention last week, it would seem that the prime objective of the Republican party was to paint the country as evil and week because of Democratic rule. Show that it is not. Show how the Biden administration brought much more to the table through peace and alliances than through isolationism. 

Doesn't anybody want to beet the asshole Trump? He fucking wanted to remain in power even though the people had told him "No", even though everyone around him was telling him that he lost the election. I mean, for stick-to-it-iv-ness and remaining on message, he wins. So everyone must differentiate between his message of hate to the message of moving forward facing the challenges of the present. 

He cares not one whit for democracy. The question we all have to ask ourselves is ," Do I?"

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.46  evilone  replied to  Thomas @3.1.45    3 months ago
That does not stop the Trump Campaign from claiming that it is crooked. That is all it has to do.

They are already doing that. It's partisan noise for the base. It doesn't help their cause.

The only way to beat him is to make him sound as foolish as he is as much of the time as possible. Point out and call out every fallacy. The true MAGA will not listen because he is their Savior... Or at least they think he is. But others can and will listen. 

I'm very eager to start seeing new polling numbers.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.47  evilone  replied to  Gsquared @3.1.44    3 months ago
Undoubtedly they would "forum shop"...

I expect to see two or three cases filed next week when Harris' name goes out to have ballots printed, but the timeline is so tight now it works against plaintiffs. I expect at least one to be upheld by a partisan judge and then overruled within hours on appeal.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.1.48  Gsquared  replied to  evilone @3.1.47    3 months ago

This link is very instructive:

The election laws in the three states the Republicans have mentioned for bringing their challenge are totally contrary to the Republican's scheme.

The real challenge Harris might face is if the activist right wingers on the Supreme Court decide to help the Republicans despite what the law is.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.1.49  Krishna  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.2    3 months ago
Gretchen Whitmer, for example, would probably sew up Michigan nicely. 

She'd be great, but traditionally there should be some differences between Pres and VP candidates. Usually that would be geographical-- if one was a Southerner the other should be from another part of the country-- not another Southerner. And if one was a New Englander the other from a different area. 

Similarly, if one is a woman, the other should be a man. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.1.50  Krishna  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.2    3 months ago
It is hard to bypass the sitting VP as the lead on the ticket. If they go with Harris, I would expect her to pick one of the other leading candidates - Gretchen Whitmer, for example, would probably sew up Michigan nicely. 

Here are several possibilities-- i think most would be good choices and add a lot to the ticket:

Who could Kamala Harris pick as her VP? Here are 10 potential running mates

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.1.51  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @3.1.50    3 months ago
Here are several possibilities-- i think most would be good choices and add a lot to the ticket:
Who could Kamala Harris pick as her VP? Here are 10 potential running mates

IMO any of  these would add the most to the ticket:  Sen. Kelly (Arizona), Gov. Beshear (Kentucky), Gov. Shapiro (Pennsylvania).

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1.52  evilone  replied to  Gsquared @3.1.48    3 months ago

I see there was a formal complaint filed with the FEC yesterday by the Trump campaign. It barely made a ripple in the news cycle. The Trump campaign lawyer conceded it wouldn't be resolved before the election. 

I also see some shit for brains House Rep from Tn submit articles of impeachment for Harris saying she lied about Biden's mental state for 3 years. It's freakin' ridiculous. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.53  Tacos!  replied to  Krishna @3.1.49    3 months ago
Usually that would be geographical-- if one was a Southerner the other should be from another part of the country

Do you think many voters still think like this? I honestly don’t know. It strikes me as a relic from the 18th and 19th centuries, when people still identified as Virginian, Pennsylvanian, etc. Maybe at a regional level?

In my gut, I don’t think it would be a great idea for Harris to pick a running mate from the West Coast, but maybe no one cares about that anymore.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
3.2  Ozzwald  replied to  TᵢG @3    3 months ago

But these are very strange times and Harris is not (by far) the best candidate, so all bets are off as to what will now take place.

There is one thing for sure about this though.  It is making Putin and China scramble to send new talking points to the republican party.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
3.2.1  Split Personality  replied to  Ozzwald @3.2    3 months ago

Trumps complaining that Biden is cheating and caused the GOP to waste their entire RMC convention on the wrong candidate.

Priceless.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3.2.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @3.2.1    3 months ago
Priceless.

Yeah, Democrats  should  be so proud of lying to the American people about who they intended to nominate.  You tricked the American people by failing to follow our institutional norms, again. Yay for cheating!

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.2.3  Gsquared  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.2.2    3 months ago

Your comment is insane.  There really is no other way to describe it.  

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.2.4  Gsquared  replied to  Split Personality @3.2.1    3 months ago
Trumps complaining that Biden is cheating and caused the GOP to waste their entire RMC convention on the wrong candidate.

It wasn't Biden's fault the GOP wasted their whole convention on Trump.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.2.5  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Gsquared @3.2.4    3 months ago

This is funny as hell, is it not?   Trump whining about Biden being unfair.   What a man-child.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.2.6  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @3.2.5    3 months ago

Funny doesn't even half describe it.  It's absolutely hilarious.  And he sounds desperate.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.7  devangelical  replied to  Gsquared @3.2.6    3 months ago

... it's hilarious. the maga party has been caught flat-footed and tagged on the chin.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
3.2.8  Ozzwald  replied to  devangelical @3.2.7    3 months ago
... it's hilarious. the maga party has been caught flat-footed and tagged on the chin.

You're going to hear them complain that the democrats should not be allowed to throw in a pinch hitter.  They've spent 4 years and multiple House investigations to try (and fail) to tear down Biden, democrats should not be allowed to throw all that republican time, effort and money away.

Seriously, what will Comey and Jordan do for the rest of the session?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.9  devangelical  replied to  Ozzwald @3.2.8    3 months ago

molest underage congressional interns?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
3.2.10  George  replied to  devangelical @3.2.9    3 months ago

Biden is out of the race, his history in congress is no longer relevant.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
3.2.11  Ozzwald  replied to  George @3.2.10    3 months ago
Biden is out of the race, his history in congress is no longer relevant.

His history carries the weight of his endorsement behind it.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.2.12  evilone  replied to  devangelical @3.2.9    3 months ago
molest underage congressional interns?

update their grinder profiles?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
3.2.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @3.2    3 months ago
There is one thing for sure about this though.  It is making Putin and China scramble to send new talking points to the republican party.

Did you mean Putin and Xi Jinping or Russia and China?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.2.14  JohnRussell  replied to  Split Personality @3.2.1    3 months ago
Trumps complaining that Biden is cheating and caused the GOP to waste their entire RMC convention on the wrong candidate.

That is true .

Trump_Speech.JPG_HxarHTE.jpg

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
3.2.15  Thomas  replied to  Ozzwald @3.2.8    3 months ago

Spread lies and disinformation, aka, more of the same.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.2.16  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.2.2    3 months ago
Yeah, Democrats  should  be so proud of lying to the American people about who they intended to nominate. 

All Democrats were lying about who they wished to nominate? 

Or maybe just some?

(Which ones, specifically, do you think were lying?).

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.3  evilone  replied to  TᵢG @3    3 months ago
She is of course the likely successor given her access to campaign funds and the fact that many people would expect the V.P. to move to the head of the ticket.

Dems raised over $60M yesterday after this news.

But these are very strange times and Harris is not (by far) the best candidate, so all bets are off as to what will now take place.

Pollsters will be out in force this week, including in swing states. We'll have an idea what's current, so by next months Conference where the party is likely to go. I don't expect any serious challenges to Harris. I'm curious what her messaging will be in in run up to the Conference. I think Dems need something to uplift and energize them. And who will now be her running mate?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.3.1  devangelical  replied to  evilone @3.3    3 months ago

$80 million in online small donations in 24 hours...

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.3.2  evilone  replied to  devangelical @3.3.1    3 months ago

It's now over $100 million in online donations and some of the big donors withholding donations from Biden have publicly backed Harris. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.3.3  devangelical  replied to  evilone @3.3.2    3 months ago

the only statistic trump understands. I can almost hear trump blaming his idiot son eric from here.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.3.4  evilone  replied to  devangelical @3.3.3    3 months ago
I can almost hear trump blaming his idiot son eric from here.

There were some left slanted articles in my newsfeed last night talking about how Trump might now be second guessing his VP pick as Vance was chosen to energize the MAGA base against what they expected would be a sure win over Biden. Now that Harris is the presumptive nominee he's a liability and Harris can quote all the shitty things Vance has said about women. Again they were partisan sites and pretty much quoted each other, but it was funny.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.3.5  devangelical  replied to  evilone @3.3.4    3 months ago

I've seen a few of those articles and heard a discussion about it on NPR I think...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.3.6  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @3.3.5    3 months ago

I've heard a lot more about it, and I really like the implosive potential...

gee, it seems maga can't be happy with their god, or their demigod's decisions or performance...

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
3.3.7  sandy-2021492  replied to  evilone @3.3.4    3 months ago

Here in Appalachia, there are all kinds of memes about how he's a fake "Appalachian."

My favorite one was "J. D. Vance puts his cast iron in the dishwasher."

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
3.3.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.3.7    3 months ago
My favorite one was "J. D. Vance puts his cast iron in the dishwasher."

That is a good one

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.4  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @3    3 months ago
But these are very strange times and Harris is not (by far) the best candidate,

So who do you think would be be the best candidate?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.4.1  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Krishna @3.4    3 months ago

Tim Walz and Josh Harden are my first choices.    But if either of those are VP I will be pleased.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.4.2  evilone  replied to  TᵢG @3.4.1    3 months ago

I know Walz sent in requested info to the vetting team.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4  seeder  TᵢG    3 months ago

If Harris moves to the top of the ticket, then the Ds do at least have the opportunity to bring in a solid V.P. like Tim Walz or Josh Shapiro.

I would like to see Pete Buttigieg but not sure the USA is sufficiently objective enough, in 2024, to support a gay V.P.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
4.1  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @4    3 months ago
If Harris moves to the top of the ticket, then the Ds do at least have the opportunity to bring in a solid V.P. like Tim Walz or Josh Shapiro. I would like to see Pete Buttigieg but not sure the USA is sufficiently objective enough, in 2024, to support a gay V.P.

Black voters will have an oversized influence on the VP selection.  I'm not sure any of the names you mention would get the approval of Black voters.

Kamala Harris has to turn out the Black vote to have any chance.  And it's not clear that Harris, by herself, can turn out Black voters.  Harris will need a VP that can shore up her left flank, too.  IMO Walz, Shapiro, or Buttigieg would be a liability under current circumstances.  Time is too short for the electorate to get to know the VP pick so whoever is selected must garner attention right out of the gate. 

So, who?  Stacy Abrams?  Raphael Warnock?  Cori Bush?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.1  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @4.1    3 months ago
I'm not sure any of the names you mention would get the approval of Black voters.

If the head of the ticket is both Black and Female, I do not think the Ds need to worry about picking a VP in order to attract that demographic.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Masters Guide
4.1.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.1    3 months ago

Which is why they might go for Buttigieg

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.3  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.1.2    3 months ago

Why would they 'go for' Buttigieg?   

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
4.1.4  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.1    3 months ago
If the head of the ticket is both Black and Female, I do not think the Ds need to worry about picking a VP in order to attract that demographic.

Biden's support among Black voters was softening.  There is a tradeoff between independent/suburban voters and Black voters.  Keep in mind that Harris is from the west coast which won't be an advantage in this situation.  Harris can't give up one of those voting blocs and expect to win.

Obama had Biden (the moderate with name recognition) to hold independents/suburbia.  And Obama had a full campaign season.  Harris is 2nd and doesn't have the same advantages.  Assuming that Harris can hold the Black voter bloc just because she is Black would be a dangerous assumption.

Buttigieg might have an advantage because he has been more visible on the national stage.  But I'm not sure Buttigieg can come across as a moderate.  That means Harris would have to assume a more moderate position.  Harris has to stay the course; she can't rock the boat.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.5  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @4.1.4    3 months ago
Assuming that Harris can hold the Black voter bloc just because she is Black would be a dangerous assumption.

The Black voter bloc is not likely to exit from the Ds to Rs and exit from a black, female nominee to an old, white, vindictive narcissist scoundrel.

The issue in 2024 is still the independent voters in swing states.   

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
4.1.6  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.5    3 months ago
The Black voter bloc is not likely to exit from the Ds to Rs and exit from a black, female nominee to an old, white, vindictive narcissist scoundrel.

Well, duh.  But that's not the problem, is it?  The problem is enthusiasm and turnout.  That's always been the problem with minority and special interest voters.  

The issue in 2024 is still the independent voters in swing states.   

Same problem Biden had.  Harris has to stay the course and not rock the boat.  That means Harris won't have the time to focus attention on minority and special interest voters.  That's gonna be the job of the VP pick.  Too many of the swing state are in play so I'm not sure one of the governors will help that much.  Harris is going to need a rock star VP with recognition and political cred for minority voters.  

Harris basically has 10 to 12 days to put together a ticket and secure the delegates.  Yeah, it's likely they'll fall in line but any sort of insurgence will attract a lot more attention than usual.   The DNC convention is going to be really, really weird this time.  The party business will be done well before the convention.  And I'm not sure a mega-rally in Chicago will be as effective as time on the stump out in the states.  

The risk for Democrats is they look fake and phony.  A state-by-state roll call vote of the delegates will be pointless.  And Harris doesn't need to give an acceptance speech if she is already the official nominee.  It's going to be an unconventional convention.  And there's still the potential for protests and political violence (from the political left) breaking into the news cycle.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.7  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @4.1.6    3 months ago
Well, duh.  But that's not the problem, is it? 

You were the one raising the significance of this bloc; don't give me that 'duh' bullshit.

There is no predicting this at this point Nerm.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.8  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.5    3 months ago
The issue in 2024 is still the independent voters in swing states. 

based upon some issues independents may have had with biden, I'm speculating that we'll soon see evidence of a noticeable difference one way or another and it will favor harris. either way, a stark comparison of a healthy party versus a party that has rotted from the inside has been presented to the voters.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.9  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.7    3 months ago

funny, I got the impression that nerm didn't think harris was black enough.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.10  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @4.1    3 months ago
So, who?  Stacy Abrams?  Raphael Warnock?  Cori Bush?

The hallucinations are getting stronger. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @4.1.9    3 months ago

What is Black enough?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.12  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.11    3 months ago

Black enough for what? Black Jobs?

What's next? A New Brown Bag Test?

Get Outta Here!

original

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.13  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  devangelical @4.1.8    3 months ago

I have a hard time understanding how a genuine independent would consider voting for Trump.   And now that the Ds will likely have a fit, youthful, experienced, energetic candidate who is not a scoundrel the choice, one would think, is crystal clear.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.1.14  Split Personality  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.13    3 months ago

Supposedly, "she" raised $50 Million in the last 8 hours.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.15  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Split Personality @4.1.14    3 months ago

As you can probably tell, I find the choice in a Harris v. Trump matchup to be obvious.   Outside of blind partisanship and / or a fantastic (i.e. the MAGA crowd) portrayal of Trump as a religious, powerful hero of the people, what sound-reasoning would result in voting for a proven scoundrel like Trump?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.1.16  Split Personality  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.15    3 months ago

Trumps complaining that Biden is cheating and caused the GOP to waste their entire RMC convention on the wrong candidate.

The noise from trump, Vance, McConnell, Mike's Johnson and Scalise sounds like they live in a different country.

It's all hysterical lies and exaggerations ala Goebbels.

Priceless.

what sound-reasoning would result in voting for a proven scoundrel like Trump?

Unfortunately there is plenty of proof that there are 50 million examples of people who believe the Trump lies.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.17  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Split Personality @4.1.16    3 months ago
Trumps complaining that Biden is cheating and caused the GOP to waste their entire RMC convention on the wrong candidate.

How funny.    The election is rigged!    What a predictable moron Trump is.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.1.18  sandy-2021492  replied to  Split Personality @4.1.16    3 months ago
Mike's Johnson

Freudian slip?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.19  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @4.1.16    3 months ago

Exactly, they are like Goebbels and now is like the 1930’s.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.20  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.18    3 months ago

I didn’t know that Freud wore a slip.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.1.21  Split Personality  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.18    3 months ago

No.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.1.22  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.19    3 months ago
and now is like the 1930’s.

Except for the airlines, reliable hot and cold running water, electricity, the internet, atomic energy, HVAC

and trail mix?

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.23  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.11    3 months ago

Pearl Jam

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.24  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.20    3 months ago

He wore high heels also. 

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.25  Thomas  replied to  Split Personality @4.1.14    3 months ago

Is that not a great statement on American democracy?

Above $100 million now

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.26  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @4.1.22    3 months ago

So it not really like Goebbels 4.1.16

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.27  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @4.1.25    3 months ago
Above $100 million now

Wow, they had really lost faith in Joe.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
4.1.28  GregTx  replied to  Thomas @4.1.25    3 months ago

It certainly speaks to the power of donors.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.29  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @4.1.23    3 months ago

Beth Liebling is Black?

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.30  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.27    3 months ago

They hadn't lost faith in Joe. They have been energized by a candidate whom they can vote for. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.31  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @4.1.24    3 months ago

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.32  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @4.1.30    3 months ago
They hadn't lost faith in Joe. They have been energized by a candidate whom they can vote for. 

I don’t see the distinction you are making.  Joe kept their faith in Joe but couldn’t vote for him?

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.33  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.31    3 months ago

So sad about Freud.....

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.34  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @4.1.33    3 months ago

If you say so, I’ve never been sad about Freud.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.35  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.19    3 months ago

I did not see anyone draw the comparison between this time and the 1930's.

I did see, however, the allusion to Goebbels' infamous quote about lying repeatedly and the fools that one could gather by doing so.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.36  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @4.1.25    3 months ago
Is that not a great statement on American democracy?

Exactly, that’s why Obama became the first to give up public funding, his 2008 decision marked the beginning of the end for the public funding of democracy in the US.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.37  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.32    3 months ago

I don’t see the distinction you are making.  Joe kept their faith in Joe but couldn’t vote for him?

Not at all. Instead of voting against the lying piece of excrement that Trump is they can vote positively without holding their noses. This election is hers to lose.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.38  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @4.1.37    3 months ago
Instead of voting against the lying piece of excrement that Trump is they can vote positively without holding their noses.

How long have you thought that voting for Joe required holding your nose?

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.39  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.38    3 months ago

I am not the one who is thinking that. Other people, according to many reports, were. It is the whole ageist thing (amongst other issues). I happen to agree with many of the policies and aims of the current administration. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.40  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @4.1.39    3 months ago
It is the whole ageist thing.

So Dems are simply ageist, without evidence(

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.41  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.40    3 months ago

Why do you persist in mislabeling and misinterpreting my commentary? If there is a way to misconstrue, you do seem to.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
4.1.42  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @4.1    3 months ago
Black voters will have an oversized influence on the VP selection.  I'm not sure any of the names you mention would get the approval of Black voters.

I disagree.

Here's why: they already have the top of the ticket (Pres. nominee) considered to be "Black". So the fact that one of the top two is Black would make it OK-- they don't need both spots!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
4.1.43  Nerm_L  replied to  Krishna @4.1.42    3 months ago
I disagree. Here's why: they already have the top of the ticket (Pres. nominee) considered to be "Black". So the fact that one of the top two is Black would make it OK-- they don't need both spots!

Disagree all you want.  The tradeoff for Democrats has always been between Black voters and independent voters.  That's why Democrats run split tickets.  The way Democrat politics works, Harris cannot pander to both the Black demographic and moderate independents at the same time -- the politics of the two voting blocs oppose each other.

Another thing to consider is that Kamala Harris is west coast and second generation immigrant.  Harris may not be black enough to satisfy Black voters.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.1.44  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @4.1.41    3 months ago
Why do you persist in mislabeling and misinterpreting my commentary?

I don't know what you mean by mislabeling.  Misinterpretation is generally a factor of  unclear communication or my ignorance, take your pick.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.45  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.44    3 months ago
I don't know what you mean by mislabeling.

To wit:

It is the whole ageist thing.
So Dems are simply ageist, without evidence(

I was talking of the voters/public in general not specifically the Democratic Party or Democratic voters. My whole comment 4.1.39 :

I am not the one who is thinking that. Other people, according to many reports, were. It is the whole ageist thing (amongst other issues) . I happen to agree with many of the policies and aims of the current administration.

The blue text I forgot, and as soon as I read my comment, added. I believe you commented in the interim while I was correcting my omission. I am not a Democrat. I lean towards liberal libertarianism (lower case libertarian). I do not like political parties because they become entrenched, make up issues, and then use those issues to divide the people up so that they can remain in power. So, I have no particularly clear insight into the Democratic partisan mind nor do I have any particular insight into the Republican Partisan mindset. I can make observations and discuss how I think they fit into the larger scheme of things. You know, give my opinion.

Once upon a time this site (and it's predecessor) was a place to have discussions with people of disparate opinions and to have reasonable and logical debates. Through this process of discussion and debate everyone learned and hopefully grew in understanding.

Somewhere along the line the tenor of the debate became infected with partisan fervor. Members grew less able to concede any point; less able to admit they were incorrect on a factual basis, even when shown to be so. Now we are reduced to largely minute snippets of snark and incomplete information mixed with mis- and dis-information that when it gets called out rolls on like it was never questioned. Like the answers to, "Who won the 2020 Presidential election?" and "Was the 2020 Presidential election free and fair?" 


Did you know that one of the devices a troll uses is to get his victims to write lengthy responses to snarky questions?

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5  Gsquared    3 months ago

The race is now a prosecutor versus a convict.

I believe Democrats will consolidate immediately and strongly behind Harris and that independents/swing voters and never Trump Republicans will be on board.   

Democrats know there is one primary objective in this election, defeating Trump.  

The Democratic donor pipeline will open up with a flood of cash.

The only question is who the Democratic Vice-Presidential candidate will be from a list of very good choices.

Vance was an absolutely terrible pick by Trump and we thank him for that.

Biden's historic, patriotic and selfless decision will act as the catalyst for Trump's final political demise.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
5.1  Thomas  replied to  Gsquared @5    3 months ago
Biden's historic, patriotic and selfless decision will act as the catalyst for Trump's final political demise.

Given the amount of "loyal" people in the Democratic Party who were asking him to, he didn't have much choice. Let's  just hope that they can form ranks march in a straight line as well as MAGA voters can. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.1.1  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Thomas @5.1    3 months ago

I agree, the Ds had already poisoned his chances.   All the Rs had to do was play Ds demanding Biden step down with the caption "Even Democrats do not want him" or any number of equivalents.

It is impossible to say if this will result in a win for the Ds, but at this point it seems as though replacing Biden is the only shot they have.

I am not at all thrilled with Harris at the top of the ticket, but she could get a solid VP and, regardless, Harris is far better for this nation than Trump (hard to find a viable candidate who is worse for this nation than Trump).

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Gsquared  replied to  Thomas @5.1    3 months ago

Biden still had strong support, and he had a choice.  The choice he made was to leave the race.  Now the choice will fall to the American voters, and I believe that the majority will enthusiastically choose to vote for Harris, especially in light of the truly dismal alternative.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Gsquared @5.1.2    3 months ago
Now the choice will fall to the American voters

No, know the choice falls to the Dem delegates and superdelegates.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
5.1.4  George  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.3    3 months ago

[]

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Gsquared  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.3    3 months ago

No, there will be some process and not a coronation, but the nomination of Harris is a fait accompli (or maybe not.  Who knows?)  The choice for the American voters is between the Democratic candidate and the Republican criminal.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.1.6  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Gsquared @5.1.5    3 months ago

It is difficult to predict how this will unfold, but I strongly suspect the Trump campaign would have preferred Biden stay in the race.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.1.7  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @5.1.6    3 months ago
It is difficult to predict how this will unfold

Of course.  Politics is unpredictable no matter what anyone's opinion might be.

I strongly suspect the Trump campaign would have preferred Biden stay in the race

I'm sure they would have.  They've been gearing up to run against Biden, and now they will have to change their focus in a very short period of time.  Too bad for them.  I hope they choke on it, figuratively that is.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1.8  devangelical  replied to  Gsquared @5.1.7    3 months ago

I agree, the trump campaign's ability to adapt is already hamstrung because a micro mismanager is now in charge.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Gsquared @5.1.5    3 months ago
No, there will be some process and not a coronation but the nomination of Harris is a fait accompli

Do you really believe that?

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
5.1.10  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.9    3 months ago
Do you really believe that?

Pretty much.

As much as Richard and the other confused individuals on here were claiming that Nancy Pelosi had it in for Harris and would never let her run... Ah, well. I guess that her endorsement is really not that important

Snicker

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @5.1.10    3 months ago

I don’t see the relationship between your reply and my question to Gsquared concerning 5.1.5

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.1.12  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @5.1.6    3 months ago
I strongly suspect the Trump campaign would have preferred Biden stay in the race.

Of my Republican friends, they are all very unhappy Biden quit.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Gsquared @5    3 months ago

Harris campaign raised 27 million dollars this afternoon. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.1  devangelical  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2    3 months ago

it's north of that by now...

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.2  JohnRussell  replied to  devangelical @5.2.1    3 months ago

47.5 last I heard. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.2    3 months ago

just broke 50

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.4  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @5.2.3    3 months ago

... in less than 8 hours. that's the kind of statistic that even maga can easily interpret...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.2.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @5.2.4    3 months ago

Kamala is taking it to the man.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.6  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @5.2.3    3 months ago

$100+ million cash in 48 hours. I can almost hear trump berating his son eric from here...

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.3  JBB  replied to  Gsquared @5    3 months ago

original

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.3.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @5.3    3 months ago

Who is Harris with?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.3.2  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.1    3 months ago

Doug Emhoff.

512

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
5.3.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  Split Personality @5.3.2    3 months ago

I have to say, it would be a nice change to have a First Couple who doesn't look like one member is going to wake up with a nail file sticking out of his chest.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.3.4  devangelical  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.3.3    3 months ago

... more like eyes or neck.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.3.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @5.3.4    3 months ago

Why would Jill do that?

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
5.3.6  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.1    3 months ago
Who is Harris with?

Who gives a shit? Trump and his anointed heir are facing real competition that America can vote for and not against. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.3.7  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @5.3.6    3 months ago

Maybe JBB gives a shit although his memes can be hard to understand. 5.3

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
5.3.8  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.7    3 months ago

Meh. Some septagenarians differ. Though to be fair I am merely penta

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.3.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @5.3.8    3 months ago
Meh. Some septagenarians differ.

It’s hard to get them all to agree.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.3.10  Krishna  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.3.9    3 months ago
It’s hard to get them all to agree.

Usually pretty easy to get the first six to agree--- but its the seventh one that often creates problems!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6  JBB    3 months ago

President Biden just jumped from middle of the pact to the top tier of  Greatest American Presidents...

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Masters Guide
6.1  Right Down the Center  replied to  JBB @6    3 months ago
President Biden just jumped from middle of the pact to the top tier of  Greatest American Presidents...

If he stepped down today he would be voted the best.....he wouldn't be able to mess it up anymore.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.1.1  JBB  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.1    3 months ago

President Biden is busy whooping Putin and trying to make peace in the Middle-East...

original

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
6.2  bugsy  replied to  JBB @6    3 months ago

Yes because being a quitter far longer than you should have dropped out makes you great. S/

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
7  Greg Jones    3 months ago

It really doesn't matter who the Dems nominate, the electorate is going is going to be voting on the issues, mainly on the economy and immigration among other things. The voters are trending toward Trump and the Republicans on most issues, and this abrupt change on the Dem side will probably not help them very much.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
7.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Greg Jones @7    3 months ago
It really doesn't matter who the Dems nominate, the electorate is going is going to be voting on the issues, mainly on the economy and immigration among other things.

Well, economy goes to Biden since he has beaten Trump in almost every standard of measuring it.

Immigration goes against Trump since he blocked one of the most robust immigration laws in history, as written by one of the most conservative republicans in the Senate.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
7.1.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ozzwald @7.1    3 months ago
Well, economy goes to Biden since he has beaten Trump in almost every standard of measuring it.

Exactly, the economy is what was keeping Biden ahead in all the polls, especially in the swing states.

You’re right, immigration was also a winning issue for Harris.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Ozzwald @7.1    3 months ago

don't forget the runaway crime wave sweeping the nation, with the exception of those politically victimized of course... /s

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
7.1.3  Ozzwald  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @7.1.1    3 months ago
Exactly, the economy is what was keeping Biden ahead in all the polls, especially in the swing states.

Sorry, I am talking facts not republican gaslighting.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
7.2  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @7    3 months ago
the electorate is going is going to be voting on the issues,

Not all of them.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8  JohnRussell    3 months ago

GTCo94qWMAA_mkX?format=jpg&name=large

-----------

let the fun begin

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.1  devangelical  replied to  JohnRussell @8    3 months ago

she's sharp and quick, and she's coming out swinging, old white conservative xtian's aren't going to like that.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  devangelical @8.1    3 months ago

They are not going to be able to steamroll her the way they did Biden. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  devangelical @8.1    3 months ago

MSNBC is saying this was the biggest fund raising single day in Democratic Party history.   Over 30 million in one afternoon. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
8.1.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @8.1    3 months ago

Exactly, just like in the 2020 primaries.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
8.1.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.2    3 months ago

Good deal, big money talks.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.1.4    3 months ago

They were small donors. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.1.3    3 months ago

I think we're going to find that Harris has grown as a campaigner from 2020 til now.  That is what happens. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
8.1.7  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.6    3 months ago

So she’s must bet at asking for money.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
8.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.5    3 months ago

I don’t call Harris supporters small.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.9  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.2    3 months ago

The 30 million dollar total has now been updated to 47.5 milllion. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.1.10  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.1.7    3 months ago
So she’s must bet at asking for money.

Well whatever that means, she hasn't asked anyone for anything yet.

Small dollar donors aren't waiting for permission from the big dollar donors they are showing their support with their wallets.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
8.1.11  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  devangelical @8.1    3 months ago
she's sharp and quick

Just like Playdoh.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
8.1.12  evilone  replied to  Split Personality @8.1.10    3 months ago

There was a few articles in my news feed last week about large donors holding off some $90M waiting on Biden to step down. We'll be hearing about that soon too.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
8.1.13  Sean Treacy  replied to  evilone @8.1.12    3 months ago

large donors holding off some $90M waiting on Biden to step down

but he wasn’t forced out, right?

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
8.1.15  evilone  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1.13    3 months ago
but he wasn’t forced out, right?

I don't really care if he was.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
8.1.16  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.1.4    3 months ago

The Big Money-Rush

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.17  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1.13    3 months ago

The conservative response to all this has seemed more like looming desperation than anything else. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
8.1.18  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.17    3 months ago

That's, because they remember the brilliant campaign she ran in 2019

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.19  JohnRussell  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.1.18    3 months ago

It was the Buddha I think who said "things change",  which is the way the world works. 

Politicians routinely grow better in all aspects of communication on the national stage once they have had some practice at it. 

It would be completely normal and expected to see that from Kamala Harris too. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
8.1.20  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.19    3 months ago
It would be completely normal and expected to see that from Kamala Harris too. 

Of course, I read a recent WashPost article about how her filmed awkward or silly moments have been turned into TikTok gold and are a hit with the younger generation.

“Everyone who doesn’t want Trump in office was like, okay who do we turn to? And she just has these funny relatable moments online,” said Bailey Stoltzfus, a law student in Arizona who has posted about Harris on X. “She’s goofy, people characterize her as a wine aunt.”
 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.1.21  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1.13    3 months ago
but he wasn’t forced out, right?

He certainly was pressured to quit.   That is obvious.   And it took quite a bit of pressure even with his debate performance and inability to recover from same in subsequent interviews and pressers.   If an incumbent wants to run, it is very difficult to counter that.   

Hopefully it will turn out to be a good move for the Ds and Trump will be denied the power of the presidency.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Guide
8.1.22  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @8.1.21    3 months ago

The question now becomes will the Dems endorse Kamala or will there be a contender for the nomination? Time is a factor too.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.1.23  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Gordy327 @8.1.22    3 months ago

She has already well surpassed the delegates needed for the nomination.   The Ds are going with her.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
8.1.24  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1.13    3 months ago
but he wasn’t forced out, right?

Correct!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
8.1.25  Krishna  replied to  Gordy327 @8.1.22    3 months ago
The question now becomes will the Dems endorse Kamala or will there be a contender for the nomination?

Nope.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
8.1.26  Krishna  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @8.1.11    3 months ago
Just like Playdoh.

No longer relevant.

breaking news: Senator Playdoh has just announced she's no longer running-- and she ain't playin' around! 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
8.1.27  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @8.1.26    3 months ago

Maybe she just doesn't have the doh.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
8.2  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @8    3 months ago

She probably didn’t write it. Was not a word salad

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
8.2.1  Krishna  replied to  bugsy @8.2    3 months ago
She probably didn’t write it

You might be right. More and more folks lately are turning to Chat GPT to write their stuff.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
8.2.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @8.2.1    3 months ago

Maybe I should use CatGPT to do my next movie game.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
8.3  Krishna  replied to  JohnRussell @8    3 months ago

I wonder-- is this the first time in a political race where we have we have a former DA going up against a convicted felon?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
8.3.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @8.3    3 months ago

Well, for sure it's the first time a convicted felon is a candidate.

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
9  MonsterMash    3 months ago

Jill is super pissed that her hubby dropped out, but what really pissed her off was he had the gull to endorse her mortal enemy Kamala. No more ice cream for Joe.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
9.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  MonsterMash @9    3 months ago

What a childish comment.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
9.1.1  evilone  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.1    3 months ago
What a childish comment.

We'll see a lot of childish, racist and misogynistic comments come out of the woodwork. I'd start a drinking game, but my liver wouldn't take it.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.1.2  devangelical  replied to  evilone @9.1.1    3 months ago

get a vape pen instead. you'll fall asleep long before you can do anything stupid...

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
9.1.3  Krishna  replied to  evilone @9.1.1    3 months ago
I'd start a drinking game,

Cardinal Puff!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
9.1.4  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @9.1.3    3 months ago
Cardinal Puff!

256

And then there's Cardinal Byrd:

256

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
9.2  Krishna  replied to  MonsterMash @9    3 months ago
he had the gull to endorse her mortal enemy Kamala.

Gulls should no longer be a problem--- unless they swoop down and steal your sandwich (You know-- like they do in those annoying  Liberty car insurance commercials!) 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
10  Jeremy Retired in NC    3 months ago

One of the questions swirling around now is if the Democrats are going to hold a primary to let the people decide or are they going to install somebody possibly against what the people want.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
10.1  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @10    3 months ago

They almost certainly will not.   There is not enough time.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
10.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @10.1    3 months ago

And that may not sit well for some.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
10.1.2  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @10.1.1    3 months ago

Of course not.   It is impossible to satisfy everyone.   But we have never faced something like this in our history.   We have no precedent to guide the path.   But what is clear is that the Ds are on an extremely short runway so they will be forced, out of necessity, to forego time-consuming processes (e.g. a primary).

Personally, it does not bother me a bit.   Harris is a better candidate than Biden (at this stage) and thus is better equipped to prevent Trump from gaining the powers of the presidency.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
10.1.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.2    3 months ago
Harris is a better candidate than Biden (at this stage) and thus is better equipped to prevent Trump from gaining the powers of the presidency.

On this we will have to disagree.  Harris' record (as an escort, a prosecutor, senator or VP) is not one to boast about.  Her inability to articulate will be a serious problem on the world stage.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1.4  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.2    3 months ago

a mixed race woman as the D candidate for POTUS will be kryptonite to both racists and thumpers in the rwnj coalition. I'm anxious to witness the future verbal acrobatics trump will utilize to avoid all future debates.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
10.1.5  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @10.1.3    3 months ago

Sure, Jeremy, Harris not only achieved a law degree and passed the bar, but was elected DA, then AG, then Senator, and finally V.P.    But in spite of people voting her into higher offices with more responsibility you think that means nothing.   

Her inability to articulate will be a serious problem on the world stage.

Are you seriously trying to compare Harris with Trump in terms of ability to articulate?    Do you ignore Trump's meandering, pointless speeches?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
10.1.6  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  devangelical @10.1.4    3 months ago

No doubt Harris will drive the point home that Trump was the lynch pin that killed Roe v Wade and hindered the personal choices of all women in the USA.

PP_2022.07.06_Roe-v-Wade_00-01.png?w=420

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
10.1.7  Sean Treacy  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.6    3 months ago

How did trump hinder the personal choices of women  in states that have kept the same laws or made abortion easier since Dobbs?

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
10.1.8  Gsquared  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @10.1.3    3 months ago
Harris' record (as an escort

I hope the right wingers keep shrieking that stupidity because it's going to send EVERY woman in the country to the polls to vote for Harris.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
10.1.9  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.5    3 months ago
Harris not only achieved a law degree and passed the bar, but was elected DA, then AG, then Senator, and finally V.P. 

 Harris' record (as an escort, a prosecutor, senator or VP) is not one to boast about.  Her inability to articulate will be a serious problem on the world stage.

Are you seriously trying to compare Harris with Trump in terms of ability to articulate?

What was so hard to understand about my comment?  It's hard to studder in a forum like this.  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
10.1.10  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Gsquared @10.1.8    3 months ago

So you think we aren't permitted to look at her full history.  Good think I'm not you.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1.11  devangelical  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @10.1.9    3 months ago
inability to articulate will be a serious problem on the world stage

hilarious projection.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
10.1.12  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1.7    3 months ago
How did trump hinder the personal choices of women  in states that have kept the same laws or made abortion easier since Dobbs?

That question ignores all the states who have now enacted legislation that restricts abortions.    

Those are the cases where the Trump-seeded SCotUS Roe v Wade decision affects women.

This should not need to be explained.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
10.1.13  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  devangelical @10.1.11    3 months ago

That's about as full of shit as Director Cheatle today.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1.14  devangelical  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @10.1.13    3 months ago

it's got to be tough to find sane employees willing to take a bullet for a useless pile of shit felon...

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
10.1.15  Gsquared  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @10.1.10    3 months ago

So you think we aren't permitted to call out reactionary propganda for the bullshit it is.  Definitely very good think I'm not you.  

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1.16  devangelical  replied to  Gsquared @10.1.15    3 months ago

good think you didn't studder...

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
10.1.17  Gsquared  replied to  devangelical @10.1.16    3 months ago

That, too.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
10.1.18  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Gsquared @10.1.15    3 months ago

Never said that.  I merely mentioned her background. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
10.1.19  Sean Treacy  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.12    3 months ago
tion ignores all the states who have now enacted legislation that restricts abortions.    

Lol. YOu claimed it hindered the choices of ALL  women. That's silly.  Words have meaning 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
10.1.20  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1.19    3 months ago

Is this the best you can do ... nit picking ... incorrectly?

This is the point I made:

TiG @10.1.6 No doubt Harris will drive the point home that Trump was the lynch pin that killed Roe v Wade and hindered the personal choices of all women in the USA.

The point is that Harris will appropriately peg Trump for reversing Roe v Wade.   Roe v Wade provided ALL women in the USA the option for an abortion.   That nationwide option is gone and is now up to the individual states.

And as I noted, this was an unpopular reversal.

PP_2022.07.06_Roe-v-Wade_00-01.png?w=420

Clearly you have no rebuttal as evidenced by your pathetic attempt to nit pick.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
10.1.21  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.20    3 months ago

Civil rights laws are national. 

2nd amendment rights are national. 

1st amendment rights are national 

etc. 

but abortion rights should be decided by the states?  This makes no sense other than that is what has been decreed by a partisan Supreme Court. 

An earlier SC decided that there IS a right to abortion nationally,  and that ruling from the 1970's was overturned by the Roberts court. 

Women should not have to travel to another part of the country to get health care.  The Congress will one day have to address this. The whole country should be one way or the other, not piecemeal. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
10.1.22  Krishna  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @10.1.3    3 months ago
Her inability to articulate

Obviously.

In fact, that's why she's hardly been able to hardly raise any money at all so far!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
10.1.23  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.20    3 months ago
will appropriately peg Trump for reversing Roe v Wade. 

She doesn't have to-- he's only too willing to do it himself!

Trump: "I Got Rid of Roe v. Wade"

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
10.1.24  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @10.1.22    3 months ago

Maybe she articulates in French.  She spent 3 of her high school years in Montreal.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
10.1.25  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @10.1.21    3 months ago
2nd amendment rights are national.  1st amendment rights are national 

And they are in the constitution.

but abortion rights should be decided by the states?  This makes no sense other than that is what has been decreed by a partisan Supreme Court.  An earlier SC decided that there IS a right to abortion nationally,  and that ruling from the 1970's was overturned by the Roberts court. 

It's not a constitutional matter.  Hence the SCOTUS ruling.

Women should not have to travel to another part of the country to get health care.

Then take it up with their state government where it is easier to effect change.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
11  evilone    3 months ago

Possible Harris running mates...

  • Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer 
  • Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro
  • North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper
  • New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy
  • Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear
  • Maryland Gov. Wes Moore
  • Illinois Gov. J. B. Pritzker
  • Arizona Sen. Mark Kelly

Issues here are name recognition. Most Americans don't know most of these people, or where they stand. Apparently  Harris had a phone call with Gov Shapiro yesterday.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.1  JohnRussell  replied to  evilone @11    3 months ago

I think it will be from a swing state, which narrows it to the top 3 on the list plus Kelly. 

I'm not sure sitting governors want to give up their perch to be vice president, so my guess would be Mark Kelly. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
11.1.1  evilone  replied to  JohnRussell @11.1    3 months ago

I really like Mark Kelly, but I'm not going to make any predictions on this topic. All I can say is, before this weekend I'd never heard of Josh Shapiro and this weekend his name has been all over my news feed. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
11.1.2  Snuffy  replied to  evilone @11.1.1    3 months ago

Living here in Arizona, I hear very little from Mark Kelly except when his staff sends out fund raising requests. But I've never forgiven him for his stunt where he attempted to buy an AR-15 and walk out the door with it but the sale didn't get done and he later said he was trying to do so in order to show how easy it was to buy an AR-15 and he planned on giving it to the Tucson Police Dept. But on the ATF form 4473 there is a section where the purchaser must declare if they are purchasing the gun for someone else and he marked it as a purchase for himself. To lie on that form is a felony crime, for a sitting Senator to lie like that should have been bigger news. I suspect had a Republican done so the cry to prosecute would have been heard far and wide. 

I don't like it when politicians make stupid and blatant lies and I've never voted for him after that stunt.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
11.1.3  evilone  replied to  Snuffy @11.1.2    3 months ago

If that's the worst thing he's done since becoming a Senator, I can live with it. I'm not voting for Dems. I've voting against the MAGA stupid. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
11.1.4  devangelical  replied to  Snuffy @11.1.2    3 months ago
I don't like it when politicians make stupid and blatant lies

yeah, right ...

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
11.2  Krishna  replied to  evilone @11    3 months ago
Most Americans don't know most of these people, or where they stand.

Once she picks one they will know-- there will be a lot of coverage.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
12  Just Jim NC TttH    3 months ago

Well that seals it. Pelosi just endorsed Harris with "immense pride".   ............./S

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
13  evilone    3 months ago

Does anyone have anything timely on Democratic Delegates? The WaPo has something a half hour ago, but it's behind a paywall. Everything else I've found is dated yesterday.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
13.1  evilone  replied to  evilone @13    3 months ago

PBS Newshour 2 hrs ago

More than 700 pledged delegates have told AP or announced that they plan to support Harris at the convention, which is over one-third of the pledged delegates she needs in order to clinch the nomination. Democratic National Committee rules most recently set 1,976 pledged delegates as the benchmark to win the nomination.

Also:

In a sign that the Democratic Party was moving to coalesce behind her, Harris quickly won endorsements from the leadership of several influential caucuses and political organizations, including the AAPI Victory Fund, which focuses on Asian American and Pacific Islander voters, The Collective PAC, focused on building Black political power, and the Latino Victory Fund, as well as the chairs of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus and the entire Congressional Black Caucus. Harris, if elected, would be the first woman and first person of South Asian descent to be president.
 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
13.1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  evilone @13.1    3 months ago

And three of her high school years were spent in Montreal, Canada, when her mother had a research position at McGill University - so she has Canadian experience which IMO is a pretty good thing. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
14  evilone    3 months ago

I just got polled from Emerson College...

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Expert
16  Perrie Halpern R.A.    3 months ago

Thread 15 removed for no value.

 
 

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