over two I heard. How many lies will he squeeze into this one ? Hope he attacks the Supreme Court again and then attacks Epstein's victims, as well as his. You know he wants to. The question is, can he contain his diarrhea run wild pos mouth...?
Although he will look foolish and clownish beyond doubt, I fear the media will 'sanewash' this travesty. He could come out of it gaining a few points in the polling.
LOL. I suggested previously that he WOULD present himself with the Medal of Honour. He really DOES want to do it. Hard to believe. What kind of total asshole IS he? How can ANY Americans not be ashamed of him?
I'm going to try to watch the start at least. I might not be able to stand much of it, but I'm recording it so I can go back and see whatever especially crazy parts make the news tomorrow.
We are about to find out just how good the medications that he is on work. Like when he got COVI, I'm sure they will give him massive amounts of experimental drugs to attempt to stave off his mental deterioration.
I am not going to watch the SOTU. Sorry. I can not 'stomach' any more of this. No more. I'm full! Y'all do the best you can. I will comment after seeing the highlights.
This is worthless. One cannot believe anything this lying sack of shit says. And the lemmings applaud whatever he claims. This is embarrassing for our nation.
Well, he’s just playing around with tariff amounts to find the right balance where average Americans are spending more on the tariff tax than income tax, so he can replace income tax with this other tax. That way he can eliminate income tax as a gift to his rich friends and shift that burden onto average income people who will pay more to fund the government in the end, while he gaslights them that it’s a great deal.
Well, he’s just playing around with tariff amounts to find the right balance where average Americans are spending more on the tariff tax than income tax, so he can replace income tax with this other tax.
Which would then be a bastardized Value Added Tax similar to Europe. It would need to be at least 30% to cover the loss of the income tax. Probably higher... and those who live in the luxury class would be squealing louder than the rest of us.
"Can the military aide come down and do the ceremony", Trump asks, after the MA had rushed down the steps, pinned the medal on Ruskin, then had to reach back to shake his hand and disappeared running to go find the next recipient.
I usually watch the SOU. My nephew was visiting when it started. When he left I turned it on and after 90 seconds of pure filth I turned it off. What a disgusting POS. My wife was really glad she didn't have to listen to him and we watched a British detective show instead.
Y'all, I simply could not watch. It would have 'destroyed' my peace. I am so over any friendly interaction with Trump at this juncture. I expect little to nothing of value from him as far as I go.
So much theater. So much demagoguery. So many lies.
I made it through but I took several breaks and only had it on in the background while I played an old WW2 shooter on my computer.
I almost threw up when the most corrupt president ever claimed to be going after corruption in government.
More "worst-to-best economy ever" bullshit.
More "open border" bullshit.
More "millions of illegals" bullshit.
I think he even wrongly blamed the murder of Iryna Zarutska on an illegal.
He successfully played the Dems a couple of times, knowing they wouldn't go along with his set-ups. Pure theater. They probably should have just boycotted it completely, instead of giving the bastard the opportunity to pull shit like that.
There was more, but his droning monotone made it such a tiresome blur that I'll have to watch a fact checking recap later to sort it out.
I finally stopped watching. Only time I have ever turned away from a SOU in disgust. I even watched those by Trump but this was too much. I am amazed that a human being can so cavalierly emit a continuous stream of outrageous lies in public.
I am amazed that a human being can so cavalierly emit a continuous stream of outrageous lies in public.
Why does 40% of our people accept being lied to like that? That is the fundamental question, and it has to do with the concept of "losing OUR country". The whole thing is at its basic level US (the real Americans, aka whites from European descent) vs THEM.
Fundamentally, it is what the country is being told. To accept (and return) to the 'gilded age' of greed, selfishness, and loosely connected community (AKA, tribalism). As it turns out Trump believes in tribalism. . .and the hope for Trump, Steven Miller, and MAGA supporters is that they can 'turn out' the majority of whites in this country to come over to the 'dark side' where tribalism can do its best and 'dirtiest' work of never letting the country be equal, equitable, or a PROPER community.
I went grocery shopping yesterday, and no, Trump has clearly not “won affordability”. This coffee container is the perfect example of the effects of the Trump administration. Coffee is so outrageously expensive that I opted for a cheaper store brand. I took this photo right after I opened it. It is 40% empty space.
The cans of Tim Horton's ground coffee I get are filled to the brim as well. If what Hal showed us is same for all Food Lion brand coffee cans people would be fools to buy it.
might take a little research on ones part , but im betting the size of the can has nothing to do with the weight of the contents , a typical marketing ploy , one has to pay attention to the weight in the can , not the size of the can .
as long as the weight printed on the can and the actual weight match , there is no rip off.
I always check the price by volume, which is why I chose this one. I don’t have a kitchen scale but I might invest in one to start checking the accuracy. Assuming it is accurate the issue is simply making their product look like it’s a better deal than it is. I’ve bought this can before and it has never had this much empty space in it. Looking at the label it’s clear that they have been monkeying around with the volume but using the same size container. 24.2 oz (1 lb 8.2 oz) 686g? These are strange volumes to put in an obvious poorly sized container. The coffee sucks too.
Morning Hal, just having my first cup myself for the day , and i agree , it does seem they ( makers) have been playing with odd ball weights not to mention recommended serving sizes , some make me laugh ( who can eat just 6 potato chips in reality?)
Just bought another can of coffee yesterday since i had enough left to make a pot , advertised as 24 oz , pound and a half , store generic , but Krogers brand , opened the can this am , and pretty much full to the brim . paid $13 for the can that breaks down to about .55 cents an oz .
I have also noticed , thinking about it now , the can sizes have shrunk as well what old hobbyist doesnt have a few cans they use for odd things like nuts and bolts or whatnot , at my age , its almost like its ordained to happen . Cans use to be like you pictured , but have shrunk at least 2-3 inches in height , say hello to marketing shrinkflation .
Shrinkflation is even more egregious when they continue to use the same sized container for less product. They had my favorite tasting tortilla chips, but they were twice as expensive as the store brand and the package felt suspiciously light. They changed the bag to be covered with labeling with a small window on the lower part of the bag. When I held it up to see what was in the top part is was a ridiculous amount of air space, with the bag inflated so you couldn’t tell there was nothing up there.
You must use your imagination to see the 'fulness' before settling took place. This brand is Kosher and Canadian, both! BTW, I once got a can of coffee in California called, "Chock Full O'Nuts" and it was delicious! Checking Food Lion's website. . . I see they sell it. Hmmmm-thinking about ordering up a 'delivery.'
It's a great 'cup' of coffee, Dev'! Just coffee since 1932 (imagine the jokes. . .and yet until a few years ago I had never heard of the brand. . . oh, and no nuts in the 'cup.' It's a good grade of coffee. *Ahem! You might want to take a look at too - and it will clear things up about. . . well, Nuts.
Yeah, "Chock Full O'Nuts" has no nuts in it. None. The brand name comes from where it was first sold: A nut shop. I have never heard of Kopi Luak coffee. . .and wonder how they came up with the concept of screening coffee beans through a living animal's. . . butt. Who 'discovered' this? (Rhetorical question.
As usual, Trump managed to manipulate Democrats into exposing their insanity with their refusal to stand for the principle for the most basic of principles that their priority is to protect American citizens over foreigners.
How could an American ever vote for someone who opposes that?
Who do you think has more principles, Donald Trump or Ilhan Omar ?
When she shouted that he killed Americans why didn't he say something positive about the two Americans that were killed by ICE? Why didn't he say they died fighting for their belief in what America is supposed to be?
Apparently Congress has come to a place and time where public PROTEST is cause dejour on the house floor and during a president's SOTU. I am sure that, so as to not be left out, the republicans will RETURN THE FLAVOR 'full-circle' when a democratic party leader delivers the same. : ) We, the public, are becoming adjusted to the novelty of this lack of respect and decorum by all. It's lousy modeling for ordinary citizens, but it is what it is!
Well, unlike trump, she isn't raping 13 year olds.
Unlike Progressives, Trump's brain isn't destroyed by believing every fringe conspiracy he reads so he's well ahead of the game. bit of nonsense he reads
Unlike Progressives, Trump's brain isn't destroyed by believing every fringe conspiracy he reads so he's well ahead of the game. bit of nonsense he reads
Now I've seen everything. A few days I posted a list of all the conspiracies Trump has believed and /or promoted. It is a list well into the dozens.
One of the biggest takeaways from the speech gave Republicans running for Congress in 26 and 28 is when Trump asked those that put Americans in front of illegals and criminals to stand and not the first democrat stood. Campaign ad could be something like this…
Show the clip with the camera showing no democrats standing, show a caption….These democrats hate you and America, then the pitch for the candidate….vote for a candidate that will put you, the American, first.
THAT will be a winning campaign for anyone running against a democrat in Congress.
Trump asked those that put Americans in front of illegals and criminals to stand and not the first democrat stood.
Most Democrats know how crazy that is. Fetterman knows how insane the leaders of his are. But the party is controlled by far left zealots who hate the country. Members of Congress know if they cross the online bluesky mob, they'll get a well funded challenger supported by party members who actually vote in primaries. So they bow to the crazies.
Rational people understand that if a government doesn't prioritize it's own citizens, there's literally no point in its existence. So Trump got the Democrats in Congress to admit they don't want America to exist. Amazing.
Fetterman knows how insane the leaders of his are.
True to a degree. Politics is a team sport.
But the party is controlled by far left zealots who hate the country.
partisan nonsense.
Members of Congress know if they cross the online bluesky mob, they'll get a well funded challenger supported by party members who actually vote in primaries.
You mean just like the POTUS threatens to primary his own parties elected any where from a US Senator down to the local dog catcher?
So they bow to the crazies.
More partisan bile?
Rational people understand that if a government doesn't prioritize it's own citizens, there's literally no point in its existence.
Civics 101
So Trump got the Democrats in Congress to admit they don't want America to exist. Amazing.
But the party is controlled by far left zealots who hate the country. Members of Congress know if they cross the online bluesky mob, they'll get a well funded challenger supported by party members who actually vote in primaries. So they bow to the crazies.
The reverse can be said. That rational Republicans are afraid of Trump and kowtow to him.
Rational people understand that if a government doesn't prioritize it's own citizens, there's literally no point in its existence. So Trump got the Democrats in Congress to admit they don't want America to exist. Amazing.
He did no such thing. He gave a binary option, with no nuance, which then is no option at all. Most normal people don't like the way our undertrained ICE agents are going into cities, hence why the Dems didn't stand.
Even the former head of ICE training resigned in protest when 240 hours of the "mandatory" 584 hours of training were removed from the "curriculum" for ICE trainees.
In addition to Schwank's testimony, CBS News obtained internal agency documents that were part of a disclosure he and a second U.S. government whistleblower shared with Congress. They include a July 2025 syllabus for the ICE officer training program, and an updated one dated February 2026. Within the 7-month span, training dropped from 72 to 42 days, and multiple courses dealing with use of force appear to be removed.
The documents also include a model daily schedule from January 2026 that shows at least some of ICE's new recruits are receiving about half the training hours as previous cohorts, according to an analysis by Democratic staff with the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigation. A list of required exams from October 2025 shows cadets are only graded on a fraction of the topics that were necessary to become an officer four years earlier. Eliminated evaluations appear to touch on use-of-force protocols, such as "Encounters to Detention" and "Judgment Pistol Shooting."
In a statement, the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees ICE, denied that any training requirements for new recruits had been eliminated.
"DHS has streamlined training to cut redundancy and incorporate technology advancements, without sacrificing basic subject matter content," the statement read. "Under these new improvements, candidates still learn the same elements and meet the same high standards ICE has always required. No subject matter has been cut."
DHS said the training still includes "multiple classes dedicated to use of force policy and the proper use of force."
Asked about the statement during his congressional testimony, Schwank alleged the department was lying, pointing to specific use-of-force training classes that had been removed.
"What was taken out was 16 hours of firearms training, classes that teach them how to use their weapons correctly and safely," he said. "What was taken out were classes on how the Constitution works. In fact, the class where we talk to the officers and teach them about the rights of protesters was cut from a two-hour program into about 10 minutes that got shoehorned into a lecture about what the concept of seizure is."
During a hearing before Congress earlier this month, Acting ICE Director Todd Lyons said recruits with law enforcement experience are undergoing more abbreviated training.
Some conservative opinions here are becoming more extremist. That is the product of defending Trumpism.
I just said on another article that there is ZERO chance the Trump era will be viewed favorably by historians. History doesn't embrace personal corruption and serial lying. It may note it, but it doesn't embrace it. Given that eternal truth , what the hell are we doing as a nation?
What in Trumpism is a foundation for our kids and grandkids? Nothing.
Some conservative opinions here are becoming more extremist.
and downright disturbing!
They claim they don't want an echo chamber but they don't really debate. They build strawmen, engage in dishonest tactics, and other awful debate tactics so they can bully and pound others on the head. All to own "the libs". Their rhetoric is full of hatred and dishonesty.
Except we literally just saw Democrats refuse to stand up and say they prioritize the interests of American citizens over foreigners.
u mean just like the POTUS threatens to primary his own parties elected any where from a US Senator down to the local dog catcher?
But Trump But Trump.. Yet again, we have the people who claim Trump is the worst Person in the world using trump as their standard for behavior. Congrats on that.
More partisan bile?
Not at all. Didn't you watch the speech? Democrats refused to stand. There's nothing partisan about reality. They made their principles clear.
Civics 101
Exactly. Yet Democrats publicly rejected what I agree is a Civics 101 principle
More hysterical partisan "logic"?
You just recognized Democrats rejected a civics 101 principle. There's nothing partisan in recognizing that the rejected such a foundational principle of our republic.
The profession of "ICE" appeals to type A semi-psychotic personalities. Not to say they all are by any means but there is that element. There is that element in municipal police forces, but on a lesser scale. Some people just like asserting authority, through force, on other people.
That rational Republicans are afraid of Trump and kowtow to him.
I don't think any Republican doesn't believe that their job is to put the interests of Americans in front of illegals.
. He gave a binary option, with no nuance, which then is no option at all
What nuance is necessary? Is it the job of those elected by Americans to govern America to put the interests of American citizens ahead of foreigners or not?
Most normal people don't like the way our undertrained ICE agents are going into cities, hence why the Dems didn't stand.
Textbook deflection. That doesn't have anything to do with this. Did he ask for people to stand if they approve of ICE's tactics?
Opposing ICE's tactics is perfectly consistent with agreeing with what Trump said.
There is a "conservative" here who repeatedly asserts that "the left" is afraid to engage with his comments. He has talked himself into believing that. Its weird as hell.
I have never been a cop but have known a lot of cops in my life. Many of them were racist and many of them liked to fight. My best friend was a Chicago cop for 25 years in one of the roughest precincts in the United States, and he told me a lot of things.
‘There is a "conservative" here who repeatedly asserts that "the left" is afraid to engage with his comments’
I don’t think that person said the left in general and no one has said the left is afraid of their comments. There have been many times when a certain member here has challenged someone to debate something, and when that person or someone else accepts the challenge, the challenger goes straight to insults….without debating anything
When a conservative challenges same person to a debate, the challenged goes silent. Pretty crazy, huh?
I don't think any Republican doesn't believe that their job is to put the interests of Americans in front of illegals.
That's what you believe. There is no way to prove that.
What nuance is necessary? Is it the job of those elected by Americans to govern America to put the interests of American citizens ahead of foreigners or not?
But it is more complex than that in reality. If ICE were not violating people's rights, this would be a lot easier. But they are. And that is not a deflection. Because what you are saying is absurd. And no, opposing ICE's tactics is perfectly consistent with agreeing with what Trump said, because ICE has violated Americans' rights. That question was designed as a gotcha question, like "How often do you beat your wife?"
Liberals and the public are not here to play "Fetch" or "Call and Response" with Trump. So this 'gotcha' won't save the day for the GOP, watch this space.
Independent voters get it, Sean Treacy. MAGA does not. I did not see the 'moment' as I ditched the whole SOTU entirely. That said, you can press 'home' this thing you 'do' all you wish. . . nuance will 'trump' this tactic every time, nevertheless. Enough people are sick and tired of the distractions. . . .
I ran into that with LEO's in Natural/Cultural Resources and USCG Drug interdiction.
The kinda "rule-of-thumb" is that there will be "about" 10% on the bad/ruff/illegal side in any law enforcement situation. Unfortunately, they're the ones who get the attention .
The U.S. Constitution applies to all individuals within the country, including non-citizens, granting them fundamental rights such as due process, equal protection, and freedom of speech.
Scope of Constitutional Rights
The Constitution extends many protections to all persons physically present in the United States , not just citizens . Key amendments that apply to non-citizens include:
True. No one can read minds. But, again, since the days when Trump was a Democrat I can't think of a single Republican who would not have stood up and clapped when asked that question. 15 years ago, I would have said every Democrat would have too. Look at what Bernie Sanders was saying about protecting American workers that long ago. He'd be called a fascist etc if he dared say those things in public now.
d no, opposing ICE's tactics is perfectly consistent with agreeing with what Trump said, because ICE has violated Americans' rights.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Why would ICE violating Americans' rights make it acceptable for our government to prioritize putting foreigners' rights over Americans?
hat question was designed as a gotcha question, like "How often do you beat your wife?"
It's a "gotcha question" but not for the reason you seem to think. It's very easy to answer "How often do you beat your wife" A: Never. I
It's a "gotcha question" only because when Democrats answer honestly, they look bad. The whole point is to get Democrats to answer honestly, not trick them into saying something they don't believe. Why do you think Democrat should be able to hide their opinions from voters?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
It's very easy to answer "How often do you beat your wife" A: Never.
The question "How often do you beat your wife" is problematic, because it makes ASSUMPTION that the wife in the household is de facto beaten. The question is leading. . .that is 'tactical' in that it seeks to CONFIRM instances of wife beating when it has not been determined as even happening. Thus, it is an unacceptable and self-seeking method to use when questioning. The effect of that question would tend to set the hearer on guard.
You have been told that CONTEXT (nuance) matters. . . accept that it does, in fact! Many, many, factors (as well as 'steps,' state and federal policies, and even politics go into determining the status of what makes an illegal immigrant. . . existing here. It is not a 'cut and dry' transaction. . . as some of the people here are partially or fully integrated into society—having done so with proper papers! No one wishes these loosely defined illegals ill-will or deportation as they have placed themselves on the heart of society.
Ask/answer the question for yourself. . . then discuss it.
As for "Americans". . . clearly (I will go there) you mean MAGA supporters as we have plenty of evidence that MAGA supporters do not consider liberals equal to themselves (Americans). Y'all think we derive from demons and Godlessness.
d no, opposing ICE's tactics is perfectly consistent with agreeing with what Trump said, because ICE has violated Americans' rights. I have no idea what you are trying to say. Why would ICE violating Americans' rights make it acceptable for our government to prioritize putting foreigners' rights over Americans?
But they are not. It's all smoke and mirrors, as that question was asked of Congress. Trump pays lip service to something that isn't even happening. If we cared so much about "Americans," they wouldn't be dying at the hands of these ICE agents. So saying Stand if you care" is an easy thing to do if you want to look patriotic, with the statement being hollow.
It's a "gotcha question" only because when Democrats answer honestly, they look bad. The whole point is to get Democrats to answer honestly, not trick them into saying something they don't believe. Why do you think Democrat should be able to hide their opinions from voters?
How were the Dems hiding? They made their public disgust at Trump's game-playing very visible. I have no issue with it.
‘If Trump had said something nice about Good and Pretti the Republicans would have been frozen in their seats not knowing whether to shit or go blind’
Of course you don’t know what republicans would have done because tje situation did not present itself, however, what we DO know, is that democrat lawmakers…..and probably many regular leftists, put illegals and criminals ahead of Americans. They show it every day with their attacks on ICE and just recently their ‘snowball’ fight with NYPD.
and probably many regular leftists, put illegals and criminals ahead of Americans.
Maybe they are just better law abiding citizens who revere the Constitution and the Bill of Rights which have been upheld by SCOTUS for 250 years, that all people in CONUS are to be treated equally.
They show it every day with their attacks on ICE
The latest polls show that the majority agrees with upholding immigration laws, even deportation when warranted,
but they also strongly disagree with how ICE operates.
and just recently their ‘snowball’ fight with NYPD.
Do you live in NYC, do you ever get snow?
Yes, whatever it was got out of hand a several stupid testosterones were arrested.
A huge mob of rowdy winter warriors descended on a Manhattan park on Monday afternoon — throwing snowballs in a chaotic scene and tormenting cops, according to authorities and witnesses.
The snow day revelry inside Washington Square Park got out of hand shortly after 4 p.m. and police were called to respond to the ruckus, according to the NYPD.
Cops found a large group throwing snowballs and observed pure pandemonium as hundreds of people launched frozen projectiles at each other and oncoming traffic, according to police and witnessed by The Post.
Well. . .that is the MAGA perspective and you are welcome to hold it. . .however, what is evident is MAGA supporters do not know how to properly talk to liberals. . .which explains the "MAGA perspective."
.however, what is evident is MAGA supporters do not know how to properly talk to liberals. . .which explains the "MAGA perspective."
It's reminiscent of how often jocks have trouble communicating with nerds. Nerds have trouble understanding the attraction to smacking heads together risking great bodily injury to move a small piece of pigskin from one end of a lawn to the other, and jocks have trouble understanding much of anything because they smack their heads together and risk great bodily injury to move a small piece of pigskin from one end of a lawn to the other. MAGA are the jocks in this analogy if that wasn't already blatantly obvious.
o saying Stand if you care" is an easy thing to do if you want to look patriotic, with the statement being hollow.
Lol. No. You just stand because you believe the principle. You sit if you don't. You can than say Trump doesn't live up to it, if that's what you believe. It's a principle. You either support it or you don't. We know where Democrats are now. They don't believe the government owes any more of a duty to its citizens than to foreigners.
The President disgraced every American by an insane display of hatred, lack of decorum and his penchant for extreme exaggerations.
In a rambling speech that included cameos from the U.S. men’s hockey team , several military commendations and numerous shout-outs to conservative cause célèbre crime stories, Trump railed against his detractors in the Democratic Party and his allies at the Supreme Court .
The president repeatedly squabbled with Democrats in attendance, saying they spread a “dirty rotten lie” about the cost of living in the United States and accusing them of “ripping children from their parents’ arms” while decrying trans-affirming care for minors.
He spoke over heckles from Reps. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib when he claimed that the country was being “pillaged” by Somali-Americans in Minnesota . He accused the Democrats of opposing voter ID laws because “the only way they can get elected is to cheat.” Trump also took a moment to attack Rep. Nancy Pelosi directly, after floating legislation that would bar stock trading on “insider information.”
“Did Nancy Pelosi stand up? I doubt it,” he said, gesturing toward the Democrats. “I wasn’t sure if anyone on this side was going to stand up.”
Trump engineered a red meat moment early in his long-winded address, asking lawmakers to stand up if they believe “the first duty of the American government is to protect American citizens, not illegal aliens.” When no one on the Democrats’ side of the aisle stood, he chastised them.
“You should be ashamed of yourself,” he said.
With several Supreme Court justices in attendance on Tuesday, Trump decried the high court’s “ very unfortunate ruling ” on his ability to impose blanket tariffs on U.S. trading partners. He promised that many U.S. trading partners would continue on under their trade agreements “despite the Supreme Court’s unfortunate involvement.”.
After briefly alluding to his belief that the 2020 election was rigged against him, and offering that he should be in the first year of his “third term,” Trump went off-script to lay into Democrats one more time.
“These people are crazy, I’m telling you. We’re lucky we have a country with people like this,” he said, over audible heckling about the Epstein files . “Democrats are destroying out country but we stopped it, just in the nick of time.”
I don't think 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters PRIORTIZE (all) Americans. . . its simply puts forward policies that seek 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters' values which trample on those whom are not MAGA supporters.
You can word it anyway you wish (and I am 100 percent certain that you will) and yet little to nothing changes while innocent people seeking a better life are being viewed on our television screens (and the world's internet) being beaten, shoved down, injured, and yes murdered in plain sight.
We have no choice:
We do not like 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters willing to do such treatment as a means to an end. 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters, . ..
Little to nothing 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters are doing is DONE IN MY NAME! NO! NOT IN MY NAME!
If we cared so much about "Americans," they wouldn't be dying at the hands of these ICE agents.
Riiiiiight.
So how far does this go, exactly? If they get shot invading another church, is that because we "don't care about Americans" or because they're dumbasses who do stupid stuff?
I'm sorry, if somebody goes out obstructing police and picking fights with armed people, their deaths are not a measure of "how much we care". That's just nonsense.
At some point even liberals are responsible for their own decisions to put themselves in dangerous and illegal situations.
MAGA supporters do not know how to properly talk to liberals.
Exactly how do we talk to liberals?
Do we call them racists? Do we call them white supremacists? Do we call them garbage? Do we call them nazis?
This is how most liberals talk to "MAGA", whatever that is, so, obviously, it is an accepted way to them to speak to others. Those on the left have zero argument about "properly speaking to".
Exactly how do we talk to liberals? Do we call them racists? Do we call them white supremacists? Do we call them garbage? Do we call them nazis?
Try calling them what they can be sometimes; overly sensitive, naive but goodhearted Americans who have a habit of overcorrecting when they see injustice.
You can call those who seem overly concerned with what they see as a loss of 'white culture' in America the 'racists and white supremacists'. You can call those who voted for and are enabling a convicted felon in the oval office 'garbage' because that defines them perfectly. And you can call those who continue to support and defend the violent murder of American citizens and protesters in our streets by this criminal Presidents Gestapo 'Nazi's' because that is clearly the kind of ideology they have embraced.
Same as anyone else. We agree, we disagree and we have a beer together. Of course it isn't always easy to find a liberal willing to do that without calling you names but there are some.
'Say' that when the 'table' turns. . . . Or just remember how Rittenhouse and 'company' at various times and sites exploited their 'kindred spirit' with law enforcement officials and officers. 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters carrying their weapons around on their hips and strapped across their chests being allowed to intermingle with police work. . . . Of course,.99.99 percent of MAGA supporters will think that is the proper course of conduct (under law). (It is not! We are not beast to be 'put down' by conservative activists under the guise of law and order!)
Then do what you do. We will continue to 'sit and spin' indefinitely. It will advance nothing and "most conservatives" and "most liberals" (as you put it) will have won the further dividing of our mutually shared country.
I am not interested in caustic rhetoric (especially not interested in it for its own sake). And to that end, I see it here and do not indulge in it. I keep my 'vote ups' to myself. And I am not able to control what others do here (nor should I be). So get that aspect of social media-driven discussion straight!
As for having a beer with MAGA supporters. . . me. . . I'll pass. I need positive action and less aggression from "angry" 99.99 percent MAGA supporters to feel at ease in MAGA supporters company.
They should not have been killed! And they were killed. And so far that is the 'end' of the discussion regarding this. . . it should not be the end. I hope liberals won't let it be the end. . . and so when the power shift occurs sooner or later. . . . Aggressive Agents should get their turn at 'karma' under the rule of law.
As for having a beer with MAGA supporters. . . me. . . I'll pass. I need positive action and less aggression from "angry" 99.99 percent MAGA supporters to feel at ease in MAGA supporters company.
Pretty much proving my point. You don't see it is the left that is much more likely to not want to have anything to do with people that are not like minded? Who are the ones splitting the country with their inability or lack or desire to have anything to do with the other side?
It is a fact that behaving in the way they (or others) do increases tha chances of something going terribly wrong. That is not justification for what happens but it should make people really think thorough their actions and possible consequences.
As William Munny said to Little Bill "Deserve's got nothing to do with it"
Their deaths are examples of people behaving stupidly and recklessly, obstructing law enforcement and and picking fights with heavily armed people.
Not even close. There is no way that their killing was justified (not even remotely close) by their behavior. Stupid and reckless would be pulling a gun, physically assaulting, etc. Trying to drive away or helping a woman up while capturing video should never result in a civilian being gunned down by officers. It was an outrageous abuse of lethal force and the focus should be on that rather than on the victims.
... but they also bear some level of responsibility. ...
Bearing some responsibility is fair. But going to the next step and arguing that their killings were justified even in part is irrational.
Trying to drive away or helping a woman up while capturing video should never result in a civilian being gunned down by officers.
You forget what they weren't doing that is now apparently a capital offense, they weren't immediately bowing down to the white Christian MAGA masters who demand fealty and obedience. Such reckless behavior completely forgetting about what kind of authoritarian pieces of un-American shit have the guns at the moment. /s
There is no way that their killing was justified (not even remotely close) by their behavior.
Cite me saying it was.
Stupid and reckless would be pulling a gun, physically assaulting, etc.
Stupid and reckless is ALSO obstructing police, harassing police, driving recklessly while they're inches from the front of your car, kicking their vehicles, and refusing to follow their lawful instructions.
There is no mutual exclusivity here.
But going to the next step and arguing that their killings were justified even in part is irrational.
A Texas grand jury has declined to indict an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agent in the March 15, 2025, fatal shooting of 23‑year‑old U.S. citizen Ruben Ray Martinez in South Padre Island.
Somehow Ice got involved in assisting police post traffic accident.. The driver, Martinez apparently aggravated an ICE agent by not coming to a complete stop, so the officer fired into the driver's window hitting the driver, who panicked and fled. He made it to a hospital but died. The main witness, named Orto, died two weeks ago in another car accident so his testimony was not heard.
Like the Goode shooting, DHS accused the driver of "running over an ICE Agent" but no ICE agents were hospitalized that night. Orto's deposition stated that no agent was even close to being harmed, the agent assumed Martinez ( a US Citizen ) was illegal and shot him with no verbal command to stop.
The case according to the law abiding Texas Grand Jury was less than a ham sandwich.
No I do not see that! Here's why: I am a 'persecuted' MINORITY several times over. I can see and feel on a regular basis what you can not in one or several of my minority realities-assuming you are a conservative in 'fair or good' standing. That means you go along to get along in the conservative worldview and 'marketplace.'
It is 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters that is pushing exclusion. . . which means limited inclusion (if at all) for minorities like me. Thus, as it stands, realistically I can not STAND with people who do not wish me the same liberties, prosperity, and freedom they wish for themselves and their own likeminded collective. (Yes, 99.99 percent of conservatives and/or MAGA supporters are part of a collective or group!
Y'all do not wish me or mind well enough times for it to validate. You will say that you do because you wish the INDIVIDUAL well. . . and that is DISPUTED and REFUTED by Donald J. Trump, a man y'all intentionally, willfully, and with zeal reelected to be president for your causes. He is a divider and a hard-divider at that.
Where did I claim you stated those exact words? I was emphasizing that your focus on blaming the victims is misplaced. Good and Pretti were both fine examples of an outrageous abuse of lethal force.
Comments like this: "Their deaths are examples of people behaving stupidly and recklessly, obstructing law enforcement and and picking fights with heavily armed people." are blaming the victims and doing so with substantial exaggeration.
It is the officers who were outrageously out of line, not the victims. There is no balance of blame, not even close.
Again, cite me doing so.
If you recognize that their killings are unjustified, then why exaggerate their culpability? Why focus on what they did wrong (again, with exaggeration) and NOT on the outrageous and irresponsible abuse of lethal force?
There was no justification for them being killed. Anything they did wrong here is insignificant compared to the over-the-top actions of the officers.
So tell us again, in different words, that one should not focus on the officers because the victims were not properly careful given the circumstances.
Look! We need to come to a definition of sorts of what rule of law means. . . and what "the spirit of the law" means. . . else we will have NO CHOICE in wasting our precious time talking pass one another. What I observe is the odd occurrences of conservatives and liberals looking for the position and only deciding the right (or wrong) in a situation when it 'falls' on one side or other of an invisible dividing line between the two groups. That is partisanship plain and simple.
The real work is in the middle ("the demilitarized zone") between the two parties and today not many are willing and ready to enter that space. Well, I have been in it even when it has not been so clear that is where I am. So let me be clear right here, right now, going forward:
Anybody who superfluously beats, injures, or murders (accidentally killing not included) another human being has a sickness and if a religious person has committed a grievous SIN and should be made to pay for it in the here and now and in the 'beyond.' There is no political cover for having taken away the justice and 'full' life possibilities of any individual. It does not matter what political persuasion the person follows! As politics can not give anybody a license to hurt others more than what is needed to calm an already stressed-out situation or set of circumstances.
If that does not suffice as an answer then feel free to ask again in a way that you know I can put this to rest.
Black Americans went through 99.99 percent conservative justice for centuries. . . it seems conservatives really like it when deference is given to law enforcement. . .when it is not one of them having to 'surrender' to authority. We can know this because when conservatives confront law enforcement at the scene anything negative that happens to one or a group of them they 'whine' like everybody else does. . . and whine some more until 'somebody' gives them a presidential PARDON!
Stupid and reckless is ALSO obstructing police, harassing police, driving recklessly while they're inches from the front of your car, kicking their vehicles, and refusing to follow their lawful instructions.
With the understanding you render above: Jack, please enlighten us on the incident of January 6, 2021 and specifically Ashley Babbitt attempt to trespass a secured space by law enforcement inside the Capitol building in D.C. What say you?
That's the most feeble excuse you've attempted in a while.
I was emphasizing that your focus on blaming the victims is misplaced.
Thus confirming the blanket refusal to hold liberals accountable for any action.
Good and Pretti were both fine examples of an outrageous abuse of lethal force.
They were also fine examples of self righteous idiots who foolishly put themselves in dangerous situations. Again, the two ideas are not mutually exclusive.
If you recognize that their killings are unjustified, then why exaggerate their culpability?
Why deny they have any? To be clear here, you are defining the very mention that culpability might exist as "exaggeration".
So back to the original point, at some point even liberals are responsible for their own decisions to put themselves in dangerous and illegal situations.
You are proposing we all use 'frontier justice' -where does that factor in on the rule of law scale?
Precisely the opposite. "Frontier justice" is exactly the behavior that puts these idiots at risk.
Rittenhouse and Good have quite a lot in common. They both drove hours to another state with the intent of physically intervening in their own idiotic form of "frontier justice".
You can keep redirecting discussion all you want. . . it won't persuade me differently. Why? Because it is clear you are dodging the point and doing what 99.99 percent MAGA supporters do. . . not look for common ground. . .just another way to 'express' a version of truth that skirts the issue.
We need to come to a definition of sorts of what rule of law means. . . and what "the spirit of the law" means. . . else we will have NO CHOICE in wasting our precious time talking pass one another.
I think that's worthwhile.
What I observe is the odd occurrences of conservatives and liberals looking for the position and only deciding the right (or wrong) in a situation when it 'falls' on one side or other of an invisible dividing line between the two groups. That is partisanship plain and simple.
I agree. I see that far too often. You'll notice that is my primary point in the discussion so far.
The real work is in the middle ("the demilitarized zone") between the two parties and today not many are willing and ready to enter that space.
In my opinion, that work cannot begin if accountability is based on political tribalism. Further, you cannot realistically claim to work in the middle If you routinely accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being "MAGA" or "Trump supporters"
accidentally killing not included)
Here's where we get to some serious nuance. Specifically, how do we view split second errors in judgment? More importantly, are we able to maintain consistency with that view across political lines?
Liberals are outraged at the killing of Good or Pretti or Rittenhouse's victims, all of which were judgment errors of the moment. Yet none seem to be particularly upset by the premeditated and planned assassination of Charlie Kirk or the premeditated assassination attempts of the lawfully elected President of the United States.
Inconsistently applied accountability is not accountability at all.
In my opinion, that work cannot begin if accountability is based on political tribalism. Further, you cannot realistically claim to work in the middle If you routinely accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being "MAGA" or "Trump supporters"
I call it as I see it. I am 'perfectly' okay with being labeled a liberal and/or democratic party supporter. Why? Because I know what I believe and I know what I experience in this country. . . and, most importantly, as a black person I do not need a white person to tell me how I should feel about. . .my life. That is not okay. So it won't be allowed.
As for Make America Great Again, many times I have solicited (pleaded) with MAGA supporters or alternatively asked Trump supporters on site to explain what they wish to be called. . . it is not acceptable to be called nothing or by some pretentious label that is more self-righteous than righteous in the sight of everybody reading. Therefore, declare yourself whatsoever you want. . . I will see if I can oblige. That said, if you keep thinking republicans are the 'creme de la creme' and Trump is 'righteous' even when it is evidentially clear he is a lying billionaire 'bum' that is fleecing the country in plain sight. . . I reserve the right to call it out!
As a result of that reasoning above: Call me whatsoever you wish. I will either agree, protest, call it out, or dismiss it.
One thing is clear to me this 'circle' talking we are doing here. . .is tiresome. . .we will just have to 'test the theory' to see who gets tired or 'dizzy' first from spinning around and away out from the truth!
On a different note. You joined my group. . .for Christians and everybody. . .and abandoned it without a single comment. . . . Speaks volumes, when so-called Christians can split over the faith once given whole to them.
Specifically, how do we view split second errors in judgment? More importantly, are we able to maintain consistency with that view across political lines?
Use 'best practices' and 'lessons learned' to start and continuing. It is never helpful to hide data, obfuscate, and worse, gaslight intelligent people—it is never successful and causes great resentments, plural.
Liberals are outraged at the killing of Good or Pretti or Rittenhouse's victims, all of which were judgment errors of the moment. Yet none seem to be particularly upset by the premeditated and planned assassination of Charlie Kirk or the premeditated assassination attempts of the lawfully elected President of the United States.
What is the meaning of that statement? What should I say? How would what I am vexed by either shooting help? Kirk died. I commented on it when it happened and it as a sadness. . .I saw the literal video of Mr. Kirk clutching his neck and then loosing his grip (life fading out) and the blood gushing out high up on his neck. . .it was horrible. . . I wrote something about it along the lines of, 'I would not wish that on my worse enemy.' It was enough to write about a man I did not know in life and certainly can not get to know in death!
As for Trump what would you suggest I state about him and the attempts on his life. Admittedly, I have little use for Donald Trump, and his 'vision.' I do not like his politics, his 'abruptness, his persistence at wanting to see other people 'swing' -for the sake of 'swinging,' or the lies-plural he is somewhere on the planet telling right now.
What would you have me say? Because I have been gracious to keep my feeling about Kirk and Trump both - one I did not know of and the other which I wish I never heard of, respectively to myself. Else I would respect the dead and cuss out the manipulative liar who seems to think we are all beneath him and he (and his lies) are some 'north star' send by God.
And when you wish to write about inconsistency, please open up with an explanation for why you generally support a man named Trump who campaigned for opening the Epstein files and has been 'playing politics' with the same every since he ordered his Justice Department to 'cherry pick' what gets shown and what does not get turned out to the public. Be consistent in your criticisms, plural.
No, it is your keeping finding an 'off-ramp' for some 'stinkin thinkin' ' that leads off into a new world of thought! I have an idea: Let's just discuss the topic and use what is 'tightly' associated to make that subject matter itself substantially rich.
What drives a need to have innocent dead people shoulder the blame for being pumped with bullets when the woman told that officer to his face that she meant him no harm. . .and yet he did not move his butt out from in front of her vehicle so she could 'speed' away. . .even law enforcement experts have explained until they are 'exhausted' that it is bad protocol for an officer to stand in front of a car that is on. Where is your opinion of Officer [ ] 'mislocation' of his body?
As for Mr. Pretti he was helping. . . we can not hear the inaudible discussion going on between parties, and yet it is safe to say that when his private/personal gun was removed he should have been held down and cuffed. . . Instead, law enforcement with all its 'experience' - shot the man in ways they would not should a rabid dog!
Give. Me. A. Break.
As for liberals. . . . no worries. You can seem to rein in the conservative 'bashers' on this side either. I won't name check them. . . because you can't fix them any more than I can tell or take away the freedom on speech of any other liberals that persists in insults and name-calling here. Don't like what liberals are saying. . . contact a moderator. It is the true choice.
Describe their accountability in their respective situations.
You just cannot stop focusing on the victims.
I have acknowledged on this site several times that Pretti should not have brought his gun and should not have antagonized the agents earlier in the week. He likely did not even consider the possibility that these are poorly trained, poorly vetted individuals who actually would shoot him to death. His mistakes were minor and understandable.
Good's fatal mistake was to start driving away. For her as well, it probably did not even cross her mind that driving away would put her in danger of being shot to death. Her general mistake was trying to obstruct traffic. Not a wise move but, again, not something that should end with her being shot point blank in the head. Her wife's mistake was verbal trolling the agent that wound up killing Good.
The major failures of judgment were by those who shot these two individuals to death. There is no balance here, the failures in judgment by the officers was the super majority of the cause of death.
And yet it seems to be the best you can offer.
Your posts are degrading to the level of die-hard Trump supporter. Dishonest, exaggerated claims and low-quality trolling. In this case, you end with projection.
Only if you think 'baiting' people is the sum of all things. Asking leading questions is not something that is recognized as a 'winning strategy.' Most people are smart enough to not take the 'bait.' Campaign 'wars' or not!
The Republicans weren't worshipfully on their knees during their Lord and Master's speech. What a disgrace. A bunch of unpatriotic RINOs. Primary all of them!
Only a total loser would stand, or do anything, if Trump told them to. The loser Republicans stood in support of the loser Trump's thugs murdering American citizens. Everyone's saying.
…which will be meaningless come midterm elections. It certainly played to his base, but his issues and policies(?) will be the determining factor when ballots are cast. His followers are impervious to that notion in hanging their hats on even the slightest of imagined ‘victories’. It will be a surreal campaign if last night was any indication of what is to surely follow, with the election result denials already being fomented.
It's performative when one is baited and acts on demand! BTW, Joe Biden had a moment, several even, in his last SOTU where he 'trapped' Republicans in their seats during a 'critical' call and response. It did not help his bid to stay in office. Such performances do not even measure on the political 'low' bar.
That said, keep bringing it up. . .and I/we will keep knocking 'it' down! Some/such fun on a slow day!
Apparently, Trump wants to eliminate the federal income tax, replace it with tariffs, and the Republicans applauded. It makes sense that they would. Their billionaire owners will benefit tremendously. No more tax on their huge incomes, and instead they will pay a little more on purchases. What a deal!
It's part of the authoritarian playbook to drive the economy into crisis or near bankruptcy as a means of consolidating control. That would appear to be the goal of the Trumpist regime.
Trump's motto seems to be if people do not want him to come anyway; if they do not take his advice to 'end-run' around them; if they do not like or wish to do business with him to lay low and try to ambush them. That is, Trump's doctrine seems to be he is a 360° 'mover and shaker' and nobody-nobody gets to ignore him when he wishes to be seen and heard from. Thus, he will run behind people nipping at their heels if needed to get what he wants or to 'attack' instead.
As Trump sees it, people were asking us for money around the world and in this country. . .that they confused him as being willing to give them. . . not understanding that he gives nothing to anybody unless he can exact something of importance and worth out of them. Trump does not run a charity. He is not interested in the good aspect of community or grace. . .just give him what he 'sticks' you up for and ask him for nothing for which you are not willing to give him fame or portions of your fortune.
Yes, this Trump you see today is Trump doing his best to show off his shiny new 'god-like' powers vested in him over the United States and other countries.
I would be interesting to see how long they republicans and their. . . "benefactors". . . would mutually benefit. . .when the public 'drops' their enterprises and spit down the "open" necks of their companies through non-participation. Because if they do not wish to be a part of the solution, it is highly likely they become a part of the problem!
Trump brings up a lot 'junk politics' simply to give an impression he is a thinker (outside of the proverbial box) it is a largely head-talk designed to get mileage for him in one way or another. People can take comfort in just showing him time and time again that we are on to his bullsh-t.
This is the problem with partisanship in the extreme. It FORCES people to establish exclusion zones in their own heads. Trump knows this and yet he is so driven to get his way with 'us'. . .with the world even that he does not care if he destroys what inclusion we have been working on together as liberals and conservatives in this shared 'space' of ours.
I told her in the beginning that she would be alienating half of her potential customers, and probably more with all the new age stuff she does. but it's a bit difficult to crawl out of that deep a rabbit hole when you've descended too far down. I'd still do here, but only for the thrill of whispering into her ear exactly what I thought of her hero 1 second before reaching critical mass ...
Wow. A 'new age' supporter that supports 'hostilities' against others. . . go figure! I can admit and agree losing a person, a friend even, to a strong and persistent difference in politics leaves a void. As to the rest of what you wrote. . . well, in the words of songwriters Hall and Oats: "I Can't Go For That." That said, you are consistent in your own way!
trump delivered his state of delusion speech directed exclusively to his delusional sycophants ...
I've no doubt his words sounded warm and soothing, and likely a little muffled, to all those who have their heads stuck up his ass. Of course, it seems listening to it from that position was the only way anyone would think the speech was coherent let alone competent, relevant or presidential.
After months of his incessant harping about the absolute necessity of annexing Greenland, and his related security concerns, I understand Trump summed it up this way in his speech: "...................", and the Republicans stood and applauded.
BTW, where is North Korea in the second Trump term? Surely, President Kim Jung Un has not dropped his set goals. . .and yet the proverbial "quiet as a church mouse" from the White House is. . . remarkably 'loud'! (After all Donald has 'words' for everybody else on the planet.)
Submit drinking game ideas now.
Drink HEAVILY, no rulez
shot everytime he says big or beautiful, double shot if both are used at the same time .
i am NOT playing , learned my lesson election eve 2016.
Not even watching the SOTU.
I've stocked up on Maalox, Pepto Bismol, Milk o' Magnesia, and Jello shots of Mylanta.
(I've got some Dramamine and barf bags, just is case.)
Oughta be a hell of a ride.
They might be few and far between, but take a drink every time 2 of his sentences match in subject.
Drink whenever he misuses the word "democrat."
Drink whenever he says the word "hoax."
Drink whenever he lies about 2020.
Unless he collapses from the psychic weight of lying so much, he will speak for at least an hour and a half. He has already said it is a long speech.
over two I heard. How many lies will he squeeze into this one ? Hope he attacks the Supreme Court again and then attacks Epstein's victims, as well as his. You know he wants to. The question is, can he contain his diarrhea run wild pos mouth...?
Right after reports that DOJ is hiding a victim's account involving Trump himself.
DOJ = destruction of justice
Although he will look foolish and clownish beyond doubt, I fear the media will 'sanewash' this travesty. He could come out of it gaining a few points in the polling.
Hopefully a "few points" pointing to his obvious Guilt in the Trump/Epstein files.
Which is not saying much for the intelligence of a lot of Americans, don't you think?.
A good portion of the speech was him basking in the glory or heroism of other people.
He did bemoan the fact that he is not allowed to give the Congressional Medal Of Honor to himself.
LOL. I suggested previously that he WOULD present himself with the Medal of Honour. He really DOES want to do it. Hard to believe. What kind of total asshole IS he? How can ANY Americans not be ashamed of him?
I would sooner shove hot pokers in my eyeballs than watch that shitshow. The SOU needs to be abolished, no matter who is in power.
unless he happens to stroke out during his mindless ranting marathon, I plan on watching something a lot more entertaining ...
Arvo...crikey you mob are firing on all cylinders today..
Just about choked on my morning coffee because Trouty lets rip..
Now you with pokers in the eyes..I was just sitting here having my morning smoko and read that.. nearly choked again laughing..
At least the cat didn't get sprayed with coffee this time...
I'm going to try to watch the start at least. I might not be able to stand much of it, but I'm recording it so I can go back and see whatever especially crazy parts make the news tomorrow.
I like when trump gets fact checked in real time by the non-maga networks ...
I don't know if they'll do it in real time, but they'll definitely do it after.
We are about to find out just how good the medications that he is on work. Like when he got COVI, I'm sure they will give him massive amounts of experimental drugs to attempt to stave off his mental deterioration.
how'd you like to be the person that attempts to balance that chemical cocktail of coke and ketamine ...
I am not going to watch the SOTU. Sorry. I can not 'stomach' any more of this. No more. I'm full! Y'all do the best you can. I will comment after seeing the highlights.
In fact I am going to watch Netflix instead.
good choice!
MS now is saying that Trump is going to attack the Somali community in his speech. They have seen a preview of it
I want the liquor concession on "never before"
This is worthless. One cannot believe anything this lying sack of shit says. And the lemmings applaud whatever he claims. This is embarrassing for our nation.
I had to work during that time and have no desire to see the rerun. I'd rather watch the director's cut of Ishtar.
Trump just claimed that his tariffs will eventually replace income tax. The man is insane.
And he STILL thinks all the tariff money comes from foreign countries.
Didn't he get a degree in Economics from Wharton?
the kid he paid to take classes for him did ...
Trump just makes claims. They need not make any sense. He is a pathological liar.
Well, he’s just playing around with tariff amounts to find the right balance where average Americans are spending more on the tariff tax than income tax, so he can replace income tax with this other tax. That way he can eliminate income tax as a gift to his rich friends and shift that burden onto average income people who will pay more to fund the government in the end, while he gaslights them that it’s a great deal.
Which would then be a bastardized Value Added Tax similar to Europe. It would need to be at least 30% to cover the loss of the income tax. Probably higher... and those who live in the luxury class would be squealing louder than the rest of us.
He gets excited when he talks about violence. "He was brutally and violently shot in the head"
Rachel Maddow just called it "violence porn".
Who? Kirk? I thought he was shot in the throat?
He was talking about the national Guardsman in Washington DC
oh...I didn't watch it. But thanks for the correction
Biden bad....worst...left me a dead America...
WTF?
He seems to have a deep hatred for Biden ... probably because he beat him in 2020.
What Hell was that? Medal-mania?
You get a medal ...
You get a medal ...
Y'all get a medal!
he was waiting for someone to give him one
He said he'd give one to himself if he could.
"Can the military aide come down and do the ceremony", Trump asks, after the MA had rushed down the steps, pinned the medal on Ruskin, then had to reach back to shake his hand and disappeared running to go find the next recipient.
Class Act.
I blinked and I think I missed him talking about Ukraine.
I usually watch the SOU. My nephew was visiting when it started. When he left I turned it on and after 90 seconds of pure filth I turned it off. What a disgusting POS. My wife was really glad she didn't have to listen to him and we watched a British detective show instead.
It will be hard to count the lies in that one.
After about three minutes I realized I had missed this weeks Dark Wind but it was recorded.
Alas it wasn't long enough to cover the blow hard event.
Y'all, I simply could not watch. It would have 'destroyed' my peace. I am so over any friendly interaction with Trump at this juncture. I expect little to nothing of value from him as far as I go.
I can hardly stand to listen to him, even when he's not saying something outrageous. The cadence of his voice makes my right eye twitch.
he's the revered moronic oracle of maga ...
that of a grandfatherly type of child molester? which explains his popularity among the diehard maga supporters ...
So much theater. So much demagoguery. So many lies.
I made it through but I took several breaks and only had it on in the background while I played an old WW2 shooter on my computer.
I almost threw up when the most corrupt president ever claimed to be going after corruption in government.
More "worst-to-best economy ever" bullshit.
More "open border" bullshit.
More "millions of illegals" bullshit.
I think he even wrongly blamed the murder of Iryna Zarutska on an illegal.
He successfully played the Dems a couple of times, knowing they wouldn't go along with his set-ups. Pure theater. They probably should have just boycotted it completely, instead of giving the bastard the opportunity to pull shit like that.
There was more, but his droning monotone made it such a tiresome blur that I'll have to watch a fact checking recap later to sort it out.
The Democrats should have all boycotted it. Every one of them.
I bet SCotUS wished they had.
Barrett probably had a headache rom glaring at him for two hours.
after 30 years spent with a catholic wife, I'm totally immune to that and the silent treatment ...
I finally stopped watching. Only time I have ever turned away from a SOU in disgust. I even watched those by Trump but this was too much. I am amazed that a human being can so cavalierly emit a continuous stream of outrageous lies in public.
100 percent in agreement. Same here.
I hate his guts. I feel the same way about anyone who supports the piece of shit
He has the nerve calling anybody crazy
Why does 40% of our people accept being lied to like that? That is the fundamental question, and it has to do with the concept of "losing OUR country". The whole thing is at its basic level US (the real Americans, aka whites from European descent) vs THEM.
If I came across his 'guts' I would turn my nose up! I know we are not supposed to do it, but Trump is intentionally despicable.
Fundamentally, it is what the country is being told. To accept (and return) to the 'gilded age' of greed, selfishness, and loosely connected community (AKA, tribalism). As it turns out Trump believes in tribalism. . .and the hope for Trump, Steven Miller, and MAGA supporters is that they can 'turn out' the majority of whites in this country to come over to the 'dark side' where tribalism can do its best and 'dirtiest' work of never letting the country be equal, equitable, or a PROPER community.
Well...it's not just his guts. I hate the entire vessel
I'll bet he smells the same now as when he does when he's dead ...
I went grocery shopping yesterday, and no, Trump has clearly not “won affordability”. This coffee container is the perfect example of the effects of the Trump administration. Coffee is so outrageously expensive that I opted for a cheaper store brand. I took this photo right after I opened it. It is 40% empty space.
That's a rip-off!
The last can of Folger's I opened was filled all the way to the top
The cans of Tim Horton's ground coffee I get are filled to the brim as well. If what Hal showed us is same for all Food Lion brand coffee cans people would be fools to buy it.
might take a little research on ones part , but im betting the size of the can has nothing to do with the weight of the contents , a typical marketing ploy , one has to pay attention to the weight in the can , not the size of the can .
as long as the weight printed on the can and the actual weight match , there is no rip off.
I always check the price by volume, which is why I chose this one. I don’t have a kitchen scale but I might invest in one to start checking the accuracy. Assuming it is accurate the issue is simply making their product look like it’s a better deal than it is. I’ve bought this can before and it has never had this much empty space in it. Looking at the label it’s clear that they have been monkeying around with the volume but using the same size container. 24.2 oz (1 lb 8.2 oz) 686g? These are strange volumes to put in an obvious poorly sized container. The coffee sucks too.
Morning Hal, just having my first cup myself for the day , and i agree , it does seem they ( makers) have been playing with odd ball weights not to mention recommended serving sizes , some make me laugh ( who can eat just 6 potato chips in reality?)
Just bought another can of coffee yesterday since i had enough left to make a pot , advertised as 24 oz , pound and a half , store generic , but Krogers brand , opened the can this am , and pretty much full to the brim . paid $13 for the can that breaks down to about .55 cents an oz .
I have also noticed , thinking about it now , the can sizes have shrunk as well what old hobbyist doesnt have a few cans they use for odd things like nuts and bolts or whatnot , at my age , its almost like its ordained to happen . Cans use to be like you pictured , but have shrunk at least 2-3 inches in height , say hello to marketing shrinkflation .
Shrinkflation is even more egregious when they continue to use the same sized container for less product. They had my favorite tasting tortilla chips, but they were twice as expensive as the store brand and the package felt suspiciously light. They changed the bag to be covered with labeling with a small window on the lower part of the bag. When I held it up to see what was in the top part is was a ridiculous amount of air space, with the bag inflated so you couldn’t tell there was nothing up there.
You must use your imagination to see the 'fulness' before settling took place. This brand is Kosher and Canadian, both! BTW, I once got a can of coffee in California called, "Chock Full O'Nuts" and it was delicious! Checking Food Lion's website. . . I see they sell it. Hmmmm-thinking about ordering up a 'delivery.'
... >sigh< ...
you really should be more careful in throwing out softballs like that ...
It's a great 'cup' of coffee, Dev'! Just coffee since 1932 (imagine the jokes. . .and yet until a few years ago I had never heard of the brand. . . oh, and no nuts in the 'cup.' It's a good grade of coffee. *Ahem! You might want to take a look at too - and it will clear things up about. . . well, Nuts.
Dev' - you are consistent. . . LOL
!
reminds me of "The Bucket List" with Morgan Freeman and Jack Nicholson, Least it isnt Kopi Luak.....
Yeah, "Chock Full O'Nuts" has no nuts in it. None. The brand name comes from where it was first sold: A nut shop. I have never heard of Kopi Luak coffee. . .and wonder how they came up with the concept of screening coffee beans through a living animal's. . . butt. Who 'discovered' this? (Rhetorical question.
I always laugh at this scene
my mistake , its spelled kopi luwak.
As usual, Trump managed to manipulate Democrats into exposing their insanity with their refusal to stand for the principle for the most basic of principles that their priority is to protect American citizens over foreigners.
How could an American ever vote for someone who opposes that?
Who do you think has more principles, Donald Trump or Ilhan Omar ?
When she shouted that he killed Americans why didn't he say something positive about the two Americans that were killed by ICE? Why didn't he say they died fighting for their belief in what America is supposed to be?
Trump.
What could possibly make you believe Omar has any positive principles?
I guess our NT MAGA had no problems with Boebert and Large Marge heckling Biden during his SOTU speeches?
yes yes I know 2 wrongs don't make a right but there was deathly silence from the NT MAGA
"keep standing if you think supporting a child molester in the oval office is justified as biblical"
If Trump had any principles he wouldn't be behaving as the most corrupt president an American history.
What could possibly make you believe Trump has any positive principles?
I doubt he loves his family like Omar does
What does race have to do with this?
No one should heckle the President at the State of the Union, no matter who the President is. Where do you imagine I said otherwise?
Apparently Congress has come to a place and time where public PROTEST is cause dejour on the house floor and during a president's SOTU. I am sure that, so as to not be left out, the republicans will RETURN THE FLAVOR 'full-circle' when a democratic party leader delivers the same. : ) We, the public, are becoming adjusted to the novelty of this lack of respect and decorum by all. It's lousy modeling for ordinary citizens, but it is what it is!
No doubt...
Well, unlike trump, she isn't raping 13 year olds.
Unlike Progressives, Trump's brain isn't destroyed by believing every fringe conspiracy he reads so he's well ahead of the game. bit of nonsense he reads
Now I've seen everything. A few days I posted a list of all the conspiracies Trump has believed and /or promoted. It is a list well into the dozens.
Do you believe Trump raped a 13 year old?
I don't, at this point.
Its funny, when Trump gets some of his own medicine you guys are complaining how unfair it is.
nah, jeff probably explained to her that jerking off trump was in her job description ...
One of the biggest takeaways from the speech gave Republicans running for Congress in 26 and 28 is when Trump asked those that put Americans in front of illegals and criminals to stand and not the first democrat stood.
Campaign ad could be something like this…
Show the clip with the camera showing no democrats standing, show a caption….These democrats hate you and America, then the pitch for the candidate….vote for a candidate that will put you, the American, first.
THAT will be a winning campaign for anyone running against a democrat in Congress.
Most Democrats know how crazy that is. Fetterman knows how insane the leaders of his are. But the party is controlled by far left zealots who hate the country. Members of Congress know if they cross the online bluesky mob, they'll get a well funded challenger supported by party members who actually vote in primaries. So they bow to the crazies.
Rational people understand that if a government doesn't prioritize it's own citizens, there's literally no point in its existence. So Trump got the Democrats in Congress to admit they don't want America to exist. Amazing.
True.
True to a degree. Politics is a team sport.
partisan nonsense.
You mean just like the POTUS threatens to primary his own parties elected any where from a US Senator down to the local dog catcher?
More partisan bile?
Civics 101
More hysterical partisan "logic"?
I don't see MAGA or trmp supporters prioritizing US citizens. They all in it for themselves. They are the new Me Generation
The reverse can be said. That rational Republicans are afraid of Trump and kowtow to him.
He did no such thing. He gave a binary option, with no nuance, which then is no option at all. Most normal people don't like the way our undertrained ICE agents are going into cities, hence why the Dems didn't stand.
Even the former head of ICE training resigned in protest when 240 hours of the "mandatory" 584 hours of training were removed from the "curriculum" for ICE trainees.
Some conservative opinions here are becoming more extremist. That is the product of defending Trumpism.
I just said on another article that there is ZERO chance the Trump era will be viewed favorably by historians. History doesn't embrace personal corruption and serial lying. It may note it, but it doesn't embrace it. Given that eternal truth , what the hell are we doing as a nation?
What in Trumpism is a foundation for our kids and grandkids? Nothing.
emphasis on force
There is a need for redundancy in training. It hammers the idea into the brain
and downright disturbing!
They claim they don't want an echo chamber but they don't really debate. They build strawmen, engage in dishonest tactics, and other awful debate tactics so they can bully and pound others on the head. All to own "the libs". Their rhetoric is full of hatred and dishonesty.
I don't see anybody here that they "own". Its all self delusion.
Except we literally just saw Democrats refuse to stand up and say they prioritize the interests of American citizens over foreigners.
u mean just like the POTUS threatens to primary his own parties elected any where from a US Senator down to the local dog catcher?
But Trump But Trump.. Yet again, we have the people who claim Trump is the worst Person in the world using trump as their standard for behavior. Congrats on that.
More partisan bile?
Not at all. Didn't you watch the speech? Democrats refused to stand. There's nothing partisan about reality. They made their principles clear.
Civics 101
Exactly. Yet Democrats publicly rejected what I agree is a Civics 101 principle
More hysterical partisan "logic"?
You just recognized Democrats rejected a civics 101 principle. There's nothing partisan in recognizing that the rejected such a foundational principle of our republic.
The profession of "ICE" appeals to type A semi-psychotic personalities. Not to say they all are by any means but there is that element. There is that element in municipal police forces, but on a lesser scale. Some people just like asserting authority, through force, on other people.
I don't think any Republican doesn't believe that their job is to put the interests of Americans in front of illegals.
What nuance is necessary? Is it the job of those elected by Americans to govern America to put the interests of American citizens ahead of foreigners or not?
Textbook deflection. That doesn't have anything to do with this. Did he ask for people to stand if they approve of ICE's tactics?
Opposing ICE's tactics is perfectly consistent with agreeing with what Trump said.
And we have people ,who claim to know that Trump is bad news, remaining silent for a decade.
exactly!
There is a "conservative" here who repeatedly asserts that "the left" is afraid to engage with his comments. He has talked himself into believing that. Its weird as hell.
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I have never been a cop but have known a lot of cops in my life. Many of them were racist and many of them liked to fight. My best friend was a Chicago cop for 25 years in one of the roughest precincts in the United States, and he told me a lot of things.
‘There is a "conservative" here who repeatedly asserts that "the left" is afraid to engage with his comments’
I don’t think that person said the left in general and no one has said the left is afraid of their comments.
There have been many times when a certain member here has challenged someone to debate something, and when that person or someone else accepts the challenge, the challenger goes straight to insults….without debating anything
When a conservative challenges same person to a debate, the challenged goes silent.
Pretty crazy, huh?
That's what you believe. There is no way to prove that.
But it is more complex than that in reality. If ICE were not violating people's rights, this would be a lot easier. But they are. And that is not a deflection. Because what you are saying is absurd. And no, opposing ICE's tactics is perfectly consistent with agreeing with what Trump said, because ICE has violated Americans' rights. That question was designed as a gotcha question, like "How often do you beat your wife?"
Only to MAGA supporters and those individuals and groups that loosely affiliate themselves with MAGA.
A ridiculous generalization. Demonstrably wrong based on observing this site alone.
Liberals and the public are not here to play "Fetch" or "Call and Response" with Trump. So this 'gotcha' won't save the day for the GOP, watch this space.
Independent voters get it, Sean Treacy. MAGA does not. I did not see the 'moment' as I ditched the whole SOTU entirely. That said, you can press 'home' this thing you 'do' all you wish. . . nuance will 'trump' this tactic every time, nevertheless. Enough people are sick and tired of the distractions. . . .
News flash, Sean, your narrow interpretation of what you saw isn't necessarily going to be appreciated by anyone outside of team Trump.
Freedom of expression is a principle of the Constitution.
Trump is free to act like a vengeful child and his audience is free to ignore his insults and fabrications. Just like this website.
I am embarrassed for you that someone has to spell it out for you.
Laughably, both parties do the same things but you only complain about one side = no credibiliy, just noise.
Pretty simple minded analysis, huh? No bias at all. /s
Correct, without any regard for the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
I ran into that with LEO's in Natural/Cultural Resources and USCG Drug interdiction.
The kinda "rule-of-thumb" is that there will be "about" 10% on the bad/ruff/illegal side in any law enforcement situation. Unfortunately, they're the ones who get the attention
.
Sure. People love being told they government they pay taxes to will not prioritize their needs over foreigners.
Just like nobody was bothered by a Supreme Court nominee not knowing what a woman is.. Had no legs whatsoever.
Of course it is. What does that have to do with anything?
you only complain about one side = no credibiliy, just noise.
This might be the most obvious physician, heal thyself of all time.
Except Republicans are not putting Americans' interest in front of illegals. . . as it depends on what republicans mean by "Americans!"
True. No one can read minds. But, again, since the days when Trump was a Democrat I can't think of a single Republican who would not have stood up and clapped when asked that question. 15 years ago, I would have said every Democrat would have too. Look at what Bernie Sanders was saying about protecting American workers that long ago. He'd be called a fascist etc if he dared say those things in public now.
d no, opposing ICE's tactics is perfectly consistent with agreeing with what Trump said, because ICE has violated Americans' rights.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Why would ICE violating Americans' rights make it acceptable for our government to prioritize putting foreigners' rights over Americans?
hat question was designed as a gotcha question, like "How often do you beat your wife?"
It's a "gotcha question" but not for the reason you seem to think. It's very easy to answer "How often do you beat your wife" A: Never. I
It's a "gotcha question" only because when Democrats answer honestly, they look bad. The whole point is to get Democrats to answer honestly, not trick them into saying something they don't believe. Why do you think Democrat should be able to hide their opinions from voters?
Um.. Okay. That's swell and all but not relevant to what Trump said.
How many Republicans are in charge of sanctuary cities or states?
What? Do democrats have a different meaning?...
Of course it's relevant, at least as relevant as
The question "How often do you beat your wife" is problematic, because it makes ASSUMPTION that the wife in the household is de facto beaten. The question is leading. . .that is 'tactical' in that it seeks to CONFIRM instances of wife beating when it has not been determined as even happening. Thus, it is an unacceptable and self-seeking method to use when questioning. The effect of that question would tend to set the hearer on guard.
You have been told that CONTEXT (nuance) matters. . . accept that it does, in fact! Many, many, factors (as well as 'steps,' state and federal policies, and even politics go into determining the status of what makes an illegal immigrant. . . existing here. It is not a 'cut and dry' transaction. . . as some of the people here are partially or fully integrated into society—having done so with proper papers! No one wishes these loosely defined illegals ill-will or deportation as they have placed themselves on the heart of society.
Ask/answer the question for yourself. . . then discuss it.
As for "Americans". . . clearly (I will go there) you mean MAGA supporters as we have plenty of evidence that MAGA supporters do not consider liberals equal to themselves (Americans). Y'all think we derive from demons and Godlessness.
But they are not. It's all smoke and mirrors, as that question was asked of Congress. Trump pays lip service to something that isn't even happening. If we cared so much about "Americans," they wouldn't be dying at the hands of these ICE agents. So saying Stand if you care" is an easy thing to do if you want to look patriotic, with the statement being hollow.
How were the Dems hiding? They made their public disgust at Trump's game-playing very visible. I have no issue with it.
If Trump had said something nice about Good and Pretti the Republicans would have been frozen in their seats not knowing whether to shit or go blind.
Sh-t or go blind?! Bah ha ha!
So far all you have done is criticize Ds. Deflecting yet again from the obviously correct criticism of Trump.
Why do you continue to defend this dangerous buffoon?
‘If Trump had said something nice about Good and Pretti the Republicans would have been frozen in their seats not knowing whether to shit or go blind’
Of course you don’t know what republicans would have done because tje situation did not present itself, however, what we DO know, is that democrat lawmakers…..and probably many regular leftists, put illegals and criminals ahead of Americans. They show it every day with their attacks on ICE and just recently their ‘snowball’ fight with NYPD.
Maybe they are just better law abiding citizens who revere the Constitution and the Bill of Rights which have been upheld by SCOTUS for 250 years, that all people in CONUS are to be treated equally.
The latest polls show that the majority agrees with upholding immigration laws, even deportation when warranted,
but they also strongly disagree with how ICE operates.
Do you live in NYC, do you ever get snow?
Yes, whatever it was got out of hand a several stupid testosterones were arrested.
Thousands of out of high school teenagers and some college students, but sure blame "leftists".
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Well. . .that is the MAGA perspective and you are welcome to hold it. . .however, what is evident is MAGA supporters do not know how to properly talk to liberals. . .which explains the "MAGA perspective."
It's reminiscent of how often jocks have trouble communicating with nerds. Nerds have trouble understanding the attraction to smacking heads together risking great bodily injury to move a small piece of pigskin from one end of a lawn to the other, and jocks have trouble understanding much of anything because they smack their heads together and risk great bodily injury to move a small piece of pigskin from one end of a lawn to the other. MAGA are the jocks in this analogy if that wasn't already blatantly obvious.
Lol. No. You just stand because you believe the principle. You sit if you don't. You can than say Trump doesn't live up to it, if that's what you believe. It's a principle. You either support it or you don't. We know where Democrats are now. They don't believe the government owes any more of a duty to its citizens than to foreigners.
MAGA perspective.
It's funny that you are just allowed to call people that and make sweeping generalizations without ever being censored.
But sure, it's make complete sense you would believe its "MAGA" for the American government to prioritize Americans over foreigners.
The President disgraced every American by an insane display of hatred, lack of decorum and his penchant for extreme exaggerations.
Democrats, Independents and Republicans alike were embarrassed by this disgraceful "show" put on by a declining old professional victim.
He completely torched any idea that he is somehow able to unite the various political factions in this county.
I don't think 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters PRIORTIZE (all) Americans. . . its simply puts forward policies that seek 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters' values which trample on those whom are not MAGA supporters.
You can word it anyway you wish (and I am 100 percent certain that you will) and yet little to nothing changes while innocent people seeking a better life are being viewed on our television screens (and the world's internet) being beaten, shoved down, injured, and yes murdered in plain sight.
We have no choice:
We do not like 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters willing to do such treatment as a means to an end. 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters, . ..
Little to nothing 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters are doing is DONE IN MY NAME! NO! NOT IN MY NAME!
Riiiiiight.
So how far does this go, exactly? If they get shot invading another church, is that because we "don't care about Americans" or because they're dumbasses who do stupid stuff?
I'm sorry, if somebody goes out obstructing police and picking fights with armed people, their deaths are not a measure of "how much we care". That's just nonsense.
At some point even liberals are responsible for their own decisions to put themselves in dangerous and illegal situations.
The killing of Good and Pretti are examples of irresponsible use of lethal force.
If someone tries to physically assault an officer (e.g. pulls a gun) that is a very different situation than these recent killings.
Exactly how do we talk to liberals?
Do we call them racists? Do we call them white supremacists? Do we call them garbage? Do we call them nazis?
This is how most liberals talk to "MAGA", whatever that is, so, obviously, it is an accepted way to them to speak to others. Those on the left have zero argument about "properly speaking to".
Try calling them what they can be sometimes; overly sensitive, naive but goodhearted Americans who have a habit of overcorrecting when they see injustice.
You can call those who seem overly concerned with what they see as a loss of 'white culture' in America the 'racists and white supremacists'. You can call those who voted for and are enabling a convicted felon in the oval office 'garbage' because that defines them perfectly. And you can call those who continue to support and defend the violent murder of American citizens and protesters in our streets by this criminal Presidents Gestapo 'Nazi's' because that is clearly the kind of ideology they have embraced.
And that surprises them to no end.
Same as anyone else. We agree, we disagree and we have a beer together. Of course it isn't always easy to find a liberal willing to do that without calling you names but there are some.
'Say' that when the 'table' turns. . . . Or just remember how Rittenhouse and 'company' at various times and sites exploited their 'kindred spirit' with law enforcement officials and officers. 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters carrying their weapons around on their hips and strapped across their chests being allowed to intermingle with police work. . . . Of course,.99.99 percent of MAGA supporters will think that is the proper course of conduct (under law). (It is not! We are not beast to be 'put down' by conservative activists under the guise of law and order!)
Then do what you do. We will continue to 'sit and spin' indefinitely. It will advance nothing and "most conservatives" and "most liberals" (as you put it) will have won the further dividing of our mutually shared country.
I am not interested in caustic rhetoric (especially not interested in it for its own sake). And to that end, I see it here and do not indulge in it. I keep my 'vote ups' to myself. And I am not able to control what others do here (nor should I be). So get that aspect of social media-driven discussion straight!
As for having a beer with MAGA supporters. . . me. . . I'll pass. I need positive action and less aggression from "angry" 99.99 percent MAGA supporters to feel at ease in MAGA supporters company.
Their deaths are examples of people behaving stupidly and recklessly, obstructing law enforcement and and picking fights with heavily armed people.
They should not have been killed, but they also bear some level of responsibility for stupidly putting themselves in harms way.
They should not have been killed! And they were killed. And so far that is the 'end' of the discussion regarding this. . . it should not be the end. I hope liberals won't let it be the end. . . and so when the power shift occurs sooner or later. . . . Aggressive Agents should get their turn at 'karma' under the rule of law.
Pretty much proving my point. You don't see it is the left that is much more likely to not want to have anything to do with people that are not like minded? Who are the ones splitting the country with their inability or lack or desire to have anything to do with the other side?
It is a fact that behaving in the way they (or others) do increases tha chances of something going terribly wrong. That is not justification for what happens but it should make people really think thorough their actions and possible consequences.
As William Munny said to Little Bill "Deserve's got nothing to do with it"
Not even close. There is no way that their killing was justified (not even remotely close) by their behavior. Stupid and reckless would be pulling a gun, physically assaulting, etc. Trying to drive away or helping a woman up while capturing video should never result in a civilian being gunned down by officers. It was an outrageous abuse of lethal force and the focus should be on that rather than on the victims.
Bearing some responsibility is fair. But going to the next step and arguing that their killings were justified even in part is irrational.
You forget what they weren't doing that is now apparently a capital offense, they weren't immediately bowing down to the white Christian MAGA masters who demand fealty and obedience. Such reckless behavior completely forgetting about what kind of authoritarian pieces of un-American shit have the guns at the moment. /s
When it turns on whom, exactly?
Rittenhouse was a moron. He's lucky he wasn't killed. Had be been killed, the same principle applies.
I'm pretty sure I said that. Yes. Yes I did.
How is it your definition of "aggressive agents" never seems to include liberals, no matter how aggressive they get?
Incredibly close.
Cite me saying it was.
Stupid and reckless is ALSO obstructing police, harassing police, driving recklessly while they're inches from the front of your car, kicking their vehicles, and refusing to follow their lawful instructions.
There is no mutual exclusivity here.
Again, cite me doing so.
I read the comment in question 5 times and could not find the next step of justifying their death.
Then be a mensch and start with your own use of "leftists" and all of the evils they are responsible for in your opinion.
"Be better", isn't that one of the First Lady's initiatives?
Somehow
Ice got involved in assisting police post traffic accident.. The driver, Martinez apparently aggravated an ICE agent by not coming to a complete stop, so the officer fired into the driver's window hitting the driver, who panicked and fled. He made it to a hospital but died. The main witness, named Orto, died two weeks ago in another car accident so his testimony was not heard.
Like the Goode shooting, DHS accused the driver of "running over an ICE Agent" but no ICE agents were hospitalized that night. Orto's deposition stated that no agent was even close to being harmed, the agent assumed Martinez ( a US Citizen ) was illegal and shot him with no verbal command to stop.
The case according to the law abiding Texas Grand Jury was less than a ham sandwich.
No I do not see that! Here's why: I am a 'persecuted' MINORITY several times over. I can see and feel on a regular basis what you can not in one or several of my minority realities-assuming you are a conservative in 'fair or good' standing. That means you go along to get along in the conservative worldview and 'marketplace.'
It is 99.99 percent of MAGA supporters that is pushing exclusion. . . which means limited inclusion (if at all) for minorities like me. Thus, as it stands, realistically I can not STAND with people who do not wish me the same liberties, prosperity, and freedom they wish for themselves and their own likeminded collective. (Yes, 99.99 percent of conservatives and/or MAGA supporters are part of a collective or group!
Y'all do not wish me or mind well enough times for it to validate. You will say that you do because you wish the INDIVIDUAL well. . . and that is DISPUTED and REFUTED by Donald J. Trump, a man y'all intentionally, willfully, and with zeal reelected to be president for your causes. He is a divider and a hard-divider at that.
And so it is that Rittenhouse is lucky. You are proposing we all use 'frontier justice' -where does that factor in on the rule of law scale?
Rittenhouse is a good example of a citizen acting stupidly.
Where did I claim you stated those exact words? I was emphasizing that your focus on blaming the victims is misplaced. Good and Pretti were both fine examples of an outrageous abuse of lethal force.
Comments like this: "Their deaths are examples of people behaving stupidly and recklessly, obstructing law enforcement and and picking fights with heavily armed people." are blaming the victims and doing so with substantial exaggeration.
It is the officers who were outrageously out of line, not the victims. There is no balance of blame, not even close.
If you recognize that their killings are unjustified, then why exaggerate their culpability? Why focus on what they did wrong (again, with exaggeration) and NOT on the outrageous and irresponsible abuse of lethal force?
There was no justification for them being killed. Anything they did wrong here is insignificant compared to the over-the-top actions of the officers.
So tell us again, in different words, that one should not focus on the officers because the victims were not properly careful given the circumstances.
Look! We need to come to a definition of sorts of what rule of law means. . . and what "the spirit of the law" means. . . else we will have NO CHOICE in wasting our precious time talking pass one another. What I observe is the odd occurrences of conservatives and liberals looking for the position and only deciding the right (or wrong) in a situation when it 'falls' on one side or other of an invisible dividing line between the two groups. That is partisanship plain and simple.
The real work is in the middle ("the demilitarized zone") between the two parties and today not many are willing and ready to enter that space. Well, I have been in it even when it has not been so clear that is where I am. So let me be clear right here, right now, going forward:
Anybody who superfluously beats, injures, or murders (accidentally killing not included) another human being has a sickness and if a religious person has committed a grievous SIN and should be made to pay for it in the here and now and in the 'beyond.' There is no political cover for having taken away the justice and 'full' life possibilities of any individual. It does not matter what political persuasion the person follows! As politics can not give anybody a license to hurt others more than what is needed to calm an already stressed-out situation or set of circumstances.
If that does not suffice as an answer then feel free to ask again in a way that you know I can put this to rest.
Black Americans went through 99.99 percent conservative justice for centuries. . . it seems conservatives really like it when deference is given to law enforcement. . .when it is not one of them having to 'surrender' to authority. We can know this because when conservatives confront law enforcement at the scene anything negative that happens to one or a group of them they 'whine' like everybody else does. . . and whine some more until 'somebody' gives them a presidential PARDON!
With the understanding you render above: Jack, please enlighten us on the incident of January 6, 2021 and specifically Ashley Babbitt attempt to trespass a secured space by law enforcement inside the Capitol building in D.C. What say you?
That's the most feeble excuse you've attempted in a while.
Thus confirming the blanket refusal to hold liberals accountable for any action.
They were also fine examples of self righteous idiots who foolishly put themselves in dangerous situations. Again, the two ideas are not mutually exclusive.
Why deny they have any? To be clear here, you are defining the very mention that culpability might exist as "exaggeration".
So back to the original point, at some point even liberals are responsible for their own decisions to put themselves in dangerous and illegal situations.
You are belaboring a point I have not argued.
You forgot stupid.
Precisely the opposite. "Frontier justice" is exactly the behavior that puts these idiots at risk.
Rittenhouse and Good have quite a lot in common. They both drove hours to another state with the intent of physically intervening in their own idiotic form of "frontier justice".
You can keep redirecting discussion all you want. . . it won't persuade me differently. Why? Because it is clear you are dodging the point and doing what 99.99 percent MAGA supporters do. . . not look for common ground. . .just another way to 'express' a version of truth that skirts the issue.
I think that's worthwhile.
I agree. I see that far too often. You'll notice that is my primary point in the discussion so far.
In my opinion, that work cannot begin if accountability is based on political tribalism. Further, you cannot realistically claim to work in the middle If you routinely accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being "MAGA" or "Trump supporters"
Here's where we get to some serious nuance. Specifically, how do we view split second errors in judgment? More importantly, are we able to maintain consistency with that view across political lines?
Liberals are outraged at the killing of Good or Pretti or Rittenhouse's victims, all of which were judgment errors of the moment. Yet none seem to be particularly upset by the premeditated and planned assassination of Charlie Kirk or the premeditated assassination attempts of the lawfully elected President of the United States.
Inconsistently applied accountability is not accountability at all.
You just don't like the point.
A ridiculous claim. Funny how you translate the killing of two individuals into a liberal condemnation. I made no mention of ideology.
Yet again you make exaggerated claims against the victims. What drives this desire to blame the victims?
Just look at how you refer to these victims: "self righteous idiots who foolishly put themselves in dangerous situations".
Yet you in the same post claim that you have merely mentioned culpability.
Your protests are now laughable.
I'm sure you'd love to think so, but the preponderance of evidence supports it. It's interesting to watch you protest this point as you're proving it.
By all means, present the evidence. Show some examples of NT liberals holding other liberals accountable.
Funny how you're trying to reframe the conversation so you can avoid the uncomfortable truth.
I started the conversation with ideology. You're in an ideology conversation.
If by "exaggerated", you mean "accurate", then OK. What drives your desperation to erase any accountability for their own actions?
You contradict your own claims and now claim (exaggeration of course) I seek to erase any accountability by the victims.
Emotional exaggeration to the extremes is no substitute for an argument. Get a grip.
OK. Describe their accountability in their respective situations.
And yet it seems to be the best you can offer.
I call it as I see it. I am 'perfectly' okay with being labeled a liberal and/or democratic party supporter. Why? Because I know what I believe and I know what I experience in this country. . . and, most importantly, as a black person I do not need a white person to tell me how I should feel about. . .my life. That is not okay. So it won't be allowed.
As for Make America Great Again, many times I have solicited (pleaded) with MAGA supporters or alternatively asked Trump supporters on site to explain what they wish to be called. . . it is not acceptable to be called nothing or by some pretentious label that is more self-righteous than righteous in the sight of everybody reading. Therefore, declare yourself whatsoever you want. . . I will see if I can oblige. That said, if you keep thinking republicans are the 'creme de la creme' and Trump is 'righteous' even when it is evidentially clear he is a lying billionaire 'bum' that is fleecing the country in plain sight. . . I reserve the right to call it out!
As a result of that reasoning above: Call me whatsoever you wish. I will either agree, protest, call it out, or dismiss it.
One thing is clear to me this 'circle' talking we are doing here. . .is tiresome. . .we will just have to 'test the theory' to see who gets tired or 'dizzy' first from spinning around and away out from the truth!
On a different note. You joined my group. . .for Christians and everybody. . .and abandoned it without a single comment. . . . Speaks volumes, when so-called Christians can split over the faith once given whole to them.
Use 'best practices' and 'lessons learned' to start and continuing. It is never helpful to hide data, obfuscate, and worse, gaslight intelligent people—it is never successful and causes great resentments, plural.
What is the meaning of that statement? What should I say? How would what I am vexed by either shooting help? Kirk died. I commented on it when it happened and it as a sadness. . .I saw the literal video of Mr. Kirk clutching his neck and then loosing his grip (life fading out) and the blood gushing out high up on his neck. . .it was horrible. . . I wrote something about it along the lines of, 'I would not wish that on my worse enemy.' It was enough to write about a man I did not know in life and certainly can not get to know in death!
As for Trump what would you suggest I state about him and the attempts on his life. Admittedly, I have little use for Donald Trump, and his 'vision.' I do not like his politics, his 'abruptness, his persistence at wanting to see other people 'swing' -for the sake of 'swinging,' or the lies-plural he is somewhere on the planet telling right now.
What would you have me say? Because I have been gracious to keep my feeling about Kirk and Trump both - one I did not know of and the other which I wish I never heard of, respectively to myself. Else I would respect the dead and cuss out the manipulative liar who seems to think we are all beneath him and he (and his lies) are some 'north star' send by God.
And when you wish to write about inconsistency, please open up with an explanation for why you generally support a man named Trump who campaigned for opening the Epstein files and has been 'playing politics' with the same every since he ordered his Justice Department to 'cherry pick' what gets shown and what does not get turned out to the public. Be consistent in your criticisms, plural.
No, it is your keeping finding an 'off-ramp' for some 'stinkin thinkin' ' that leads off into a new world of thought! I have an idea: Let's just discuss the topic and use what is 'tightly' associated to make that subject matter itself substantially rich.
What drives a need to have innocent dead people shoulder the blame for being pumped with bullets when the woman told that officer to his face that she meant him no harm. . .and yet he did not move his butt out from in front of her vehicle so she could 'speed' away. . .even law enforcement experts have explained until they are 'exhausted' that it is bad protocol for an officer to stand in front of a car that is on. Where is your opinion of Officer [ ] 'mislocation' of his body?
As for Mr. Pretti he was helping. . . we can not hear the inaudible discussion going on between parties, and yet it is safe to say that when his private/personal gun was removed he should have been held down and cuffed. . . Instead, law enforcement with all its 'experience' - shot the man in ways they would not should a rabid dog!
Give. Me. A. Break.
As for liberals. . . . no worries. You can seem to rein in the conservative 'bashers' on this side either. I won't name check them. . . because you can't fix them any more than I can tell or take away the freedom on speech of any other liberals that persists in insults and name-calling here. Don't like what liberals are saying. . . contact a moderator. It is the true choice.
You just cannot stop focusing on the victims.
I have acknowledged on this site several times that Pretti should not have brought his gun and should not have antagonized the agents earlier in the week. He likely did not even consider the possibility that these are poorly trained, poorly vetted individuals who actually would shoot him to death. His mistakes were minor and understandable.
Good's fatal mistake was to start driving away. For her as well, it probably did not even cross her mind that driving away would put her in danger of being shot to death. Her general mistake was trying to obstruct traffic. Not a wise move but, again, not something that should end with her being shot point blank in the head. Her wife's mistake was verbal trolling the agent that wound up killing Good.
The major failures of judgment were by those who shot these two individuals to death. There is no balance here, the failures in judgment by the officers was the super majority of the cause of death.
Your posts are degrading to the level of die-hard Trump supporter. Dishonest, exaggerated claims and low-quality trolling. In this case, you end with projection.
Only if you think 'baiting' people is the sum of all things.
Asking leading questions is not something that is recognized as a 'winning strategy.' Most people are smart enough to not take the 'bait.' Campaign 'wars' or not!
The Republicans weren't worshipfully on their knees during their Lord and Master's speech. What a disgrace. A bunch of unpatriotic RINOs. Primary all of them!
Only a loser would not stand if asked if they approve of Americans over illegals.
Wasn’t Republicans that remained seated.
Only a total loser would stand, or do anything, if Trump told them to. The loser Republicans stood in support of the loser Trump's thugs murdering American citizens. Everyone's saying.
FAFO.
"Everyone's saying."
Seems like you're once again in the minority.
Even CNN showed a flash poll that showed more than 60 percent of SOTU watchers approved of the speech.[✘]
“.:.a flash poll…”
…which will be meaningless come midterm elections. It certainly played to his base, but his issues and policies(?) will be the determining factor when ballots are cast. His followers are impervious to that notion in hanging their hats on even the slightest of imagined ‘victories’. It will be a surreal campaign if last night was any indication of what is to surely follow, with the election result denials already being fomented.
482 people polled in a largely Republican audience. Only losers believe that means anything.
It's performative when one is baited and acts on demand! BTW, Joe Biden had a moment, several even, in his last SOTU where he 'trapped' Republicans in their seats during a 'critical' call and response. It did not help his bid to stay in office. Such performances do not even measure on the political 'low' bar.
That said, keep bringing it up. . .and I/we will keep knocking 'it' down!
Some/such fun on a slow day!
60% of what number? What were their political leanings, MAGA? Lemmings?
Flies swarm to sh-t. . . .
Only 482 people polled, mostly MAGA/Republicans. 60% = a total of 289. Totally meaningless.
Thread 23.2 removed for no value. Knock it off with the off-topic and personal jabs to everyone in that thread.
Apparently, Trump wants to eliminate the federal income tax, replace it with tariffs, and the Republicans applauded. It makes sense that they would. Their billionaire owners will benefit tremendously. No more tax on their huge incomes, and instead they will pay a little more on purchases. What a deal!
he's recreating the robber baron era, while driving the economy into the ground, like all his past business ventures ...
It's part of the authoritarian playbook to drive the economy into crisis or near bankruptcy as a means of consolidating control. That would appear to be the goal of the Trumpist regime.
I don't think Donny is that sophisticated. Using tariffs is the hammer he pulled out of his toolbox and everything he sees now looks like a nail.
gee, I wonder if trump's making certain that all the ICE detention centers he's building have rail access ...
I think he knows, or, at least, the people around him, his co-conspirators, do.
Trump's motto seems to be if people do not want him to come anyway; if they do not take his advice to 'end-run' around them; if they do not like or wish to do business with him to lay low and try to ambush them. That is, Trump's doctrine seems to be he is a 360° 'mover and shaker' and nobody-nobody gets to ignore him when he wishes to be seen and heard from. Thus, he will run behind people nipping at their heels if needed to get what he wants or to 'attack' instead.
As Trump sees it, people were asking us for money around the world and in this country. . .that they confused him as being willing to give them. . . not understanding that he gives nothing to anybody unless he can exact something of importance and worth out of them. Trump does not run a charity. He is not interested in the good aspect of community or grace. . .just give him what he 'sticks' you up for and ask him for nothing for which you are not willing to give him fame or portions of your fortune.
Yes, this Trump you see today is Trump doing his best to show off his shiny new 'god-like' powers vested in him over the United States and other countries.
trump only plays to his coalition base of thumpers, racists, fascists, and morons ...
aka bottom of the american barrel types ...
I would be interesting to see how long they republicans and their. . . "benefactors". . . would mutually benefit. . .when the public 'drops' their enterprises and spit down the "open" necks of their companies through non-participation. Because if they do not wish to be a part of the solution, it is highly likely they become a part of the problem!
Trump brings up a lot 'junk politics' simply to give an impression he is a thinker (outside of the proverbial box) it is a largely head-talk designed to get mileage for him in one way or another. People can take comfort in just showing him time and time again that we are on to his bullsh-t.
I have a friend that tied her business to trump, despite my warnings to stay politically neutral. she is suffering ...
This is the problem with partisanship in the extreme. It FORCES people to establish exclusion zones in their own heads. Trump knows this and yet he is so driven to get his way with 'us'. . .with the world even that he does not care if he destroys what inclusion we have been working on together as liberals and conservatives in this shared 'space' of ours.
I told her in the beginning that she would be alienating half of her potential customers, and probably more with all the new age stuff she does. but it's a bit difficult to crawl out of that deep a rabbit hole when you've descended too far down. I'd still do here, but only for the thrill of whispering into her ear exactly what I thought of her hero 1 second before reaching critical mass ...
Wow. A 'new age' supporter that supports 'hostilities' against others. . . go figure! I can admit and agree losing a person, a friend even, to a strong and persistent difference in politics leaves a void. As to the rest of what you wrote. . . well, in the words of songwriters Hall and Oats: "I Can't Go For That." That said, you are consistent in your own way!
trump delivered his state of delusion speech directed exclusively to his delusional sycophants ...
I've no doubt his words sounded warm and soothing, and likely a little muffled, to all those who have their heads stuck up his ass. Of course, it seems listening to it from that position was the only way anyone would think the speech was coherent let alone competent, relevant or presidential.
It was coherent in the same way a reality TV show hosted by an idiot is coherent
After months of his incessant harping about the absolute necessity of annexing Greenland, and his related security concerns, I understand Trump summed it up this way in his speech: "...................", and the Republicans stood and applauded.
/Remember when we had to have the Panama Canal at any financial or military cost?
Does he forget, lose interest or truly chicken out?
The answer is:
4. He's an idiot.
Actually, the answer is: Do not remind him!
BTW, where is North Korea in the second Trump term? Surely, President Kim Jung Un has not dropped his set goals. . .and yet the proverbial "quiet as a church mouse" from the White House is. . . remarkably 'loud'! (After all Donald has 'words' for everybody else on the planet.)
Good point, CB, very good point.
Trump and Kim are probably still carrying on their affair, quietly.
Hmmmm.
simple answer, trump has the attention span of a 5 year old ...
he received a large cash wire transfer ...
and an ass kissing letter ...