A Monastery of the Mind
The 2020 election is over, though ballots are still being counted, recounts are pending and an extremely important Senate election awaits yet another vote. The winner got a record number of votes for a Presidential candidate - 75,267,246 and the second highest tally went to his opponent in the same election - 70,995,115. (Thus far)
There were record turnouts, especially in big democrat cities, some of which saw voter participation reaching the unheard of threshold of 90%. (If we can believe it?)
There are many questions that need answering and there are conclusions to be drawn.
A referendum election
First is the matter of the nature of the election. I think it can be argued that this election was a referendum on the President. Oddly enough, it was not a referendum on the President's entire term, it was a referendum on the President's effectiveness concerning the events of the past 9 months. First and foremost was the deadly pandemic that China, either deliberately or thoughtlessly, released on the world. That single event would change the prospects of the President's reelection from likely to unlikely. From the beginning, the media saw their chance to frame the argument that the President failed to contain it, despite the fact that the President followed the advice of Dr Fauci and his team.
Question: why was the polling again so far off?
Was it because of the reluctance of Trump voters to take part?
Or was it a blatant attempt at suppressing the Trump vote and Trump donors?
IMO, it is the latter. Trafalgar and others were able to get accurate poll numbers. The leading pollsters had 4 years to get it right.
Question: Was there fraud in certain quarters?
Why did a few states with democrat governors change their rules shortly before the election? Why did their vote count take so long? Why did their urban vote get held until late as we all watched Trump leads dwindle as the votes were slowly added? A 400,000 lead in PA evaporated like snow on a warm sunny day. Why are we seeing record 80-90%, for the first time in our history, turnout in these urban areas and why is that vote coming in so late?
The Constitution says that State legislatures make election law, but in a handful of blue states Governors or electoral boards have either added to or subtracted from those laws. Some of the lawsuits are based on that fact alone.
IMO, whether or not there was systemic fraud in places like Philadelphia we may never know. I believe the evidence no longer exists. A fait accompli.
The Drone Class
Aside from China, the 2020 election was a victory for the coastal elite. Those are the people who control the msm, social media, the university, Wall Street and until 2016 - the Federal government. They are people like Mark Zuckerberg, who can suppress news stories or speech without a second thought, never mind an apology. They are those who consider themselves part of the international community. They have complete disdain for America's working class. They have no concept of how the American economy works.
Do you doubt it?
When antifa members are identified/indicted - please note the BA degrees and social backgrounds!
For Republicans and Independents
Well, we are entering a different era. No more daily outrage. No more press conferences where reporters try and debate the president. No more concerns about rioting & violence. No more harassment of ordinary citizens or public officials. Families can get back together again. When a vaccine comes out a president Biden will encourage everyone to get it.
Really?
For those never Trump Republicans - Let me put it right to you: You got rid of the tweets, but tell us who has the guts to nominate a Supreme Court Justice weeks before an election? Who will address false charges & narratives made by the media or the far left? Marco Rubio, who folded during a debate? Really? Who has the guts in the GOP?
When the flawed Ethan Edwards brought Debbie home nobody thanked him. They were overjoyed to get Debbie back, they didn't think it was possible! Sadly, they were also happy to see Ethan leave when the dirty job was done.
Who else was going to do it?
About half the population knows the answer and it lives on within them!
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The elite no longer believe that democracy serves them because it doesn't produce an equality of results.
They won a minor victory last week.
trump blew the 2020 election by his own words and deeds. even more decisive than 2016. time to move on.
Trump definitely could not shut his mouth - had a conversation with an old friend [Trump supporter] early on in the COVID shutdown - I told him Trump needs to shut his mouth .. he hung up on me .. I have not had a response from him since ..... yet I think Vic has valid points .. !
Peace...
A very good thing to rid us of. However, I wonder if Harris will pick up where Trump left off (albeit from the other perspective). I hope not.
It was his right to do so. Does not take guts to perform one's job function. It was the Senate who went out on a limb here.
We need more than a single voice doing that. And if that single voice is also an established liar that voice is diminished. I personally do not believe a word that comes from Trump's mouth and I can only hope most people hold the same position. I hope Trump fades away but I fear he will be a thorn in the nation's side until he no longer has the strength to be the asshole he is.
The USA will do much better without Trump behind the biggest megaphone on the planet.
No.
Good question. Hopefully the GOP can produce a candidate worth voting for in 2024.
The revisionist history will now be that Trump was a great and popular president who lost only because of the coronavirus pandemic.
Meanwhile history will show that Trump was the only first term president in history (since widespread polling began right after ww2) to never reach a 50% approval rating at any point in his time in office.
"Covid was God's gift to the left".....Jane Fonda.
The first and only time I agreed with her.
Without COVID-19 Trump likely would have won reelection. He had 1) incumbency, 2) a great economy and 3) a content electorate (people were okay in their local lives). That is a winning formula even for an asshole. Not a guarantee, but look at how close this loss was and imagine the impact of those three factors all in the positive. Would Trump have won PA, GA and NV with those factors in the positive? Hard for me to say: 'no way'.
So I think COVID-19, more than any other factor, took Trump out. His bungling of it (trying to downplay in a failed attempt to mitigate economic ill-effects) was also a self-inflicted wound.
History will also show Trump's declaration of victory to be another "Dewey defeats Truman" debacle. I also doubt history will look kindly on Trump's presidency.
Trump was to a large extent "normalized" during his time in office. Some of it came just from the gravitational pull of a daily drip drip of events. Even when the leader is horrendous , at some point it becomes routine and thus accepted. If anything would have led to a Trump victory it would have been a widespread apathy about Trump's mountainous lack of fitness to hold elected office. I have to laugh at those who think this aspect was even a remotely close call.
Trump should have lost by 25 points. The fact that it didnt happen says more discouraging things about the American people than we want to admit.
The race was very close. That is just a fact!
Trump clearly hasn't conceded, but when did he declare victory?
The numbers were close in key states John. It is never good to make an argument that goes against empirical data.
The current election results occurred after Trump bungled the handling of the pandemic, lost his economy advantage and had the people turn from comfortable into stressed out. After all this and while the pandemic continues (and growing) the election still was close.
Now imagine if there was no COVID-19 and the economy was continuously good and people were not stressed out in their local lives.
Election night.
Later, during a visit to a Republican National Committee annex in Arlington, Va., Mr. Trump was asked if he had written an acceptance or concession speech.
“No, I’m not thinking about concession speech or acceptance speech yet,” he told reporters. “Hopefully we’ll be only doing one of those two. You know, winning is easy. Losing is never easy, not for me it’s not."
On election night Trump said that he thought he has won the election. He did this while alleging fraud.
Sorry, TiG that is not a formal declaration of victory. You should know better.
Nor would it relate to the "Dewey defeats Truman" story which was about the media getting it wrong.
When i said it wasnt a close call I wasnt talking about the election results, I was talking about Trump's fitness for office.
You didnt address my point at all, but whatever.
Correct, it is not a formal declaration. But Gordy did not claim it was formal.
I do know better. You should not insert words into Gordy's comment to change his meaning. You are the one in the wrong here:
He did not say 'formal declaration', he wrote 'declaration'. Trump did indeed make the declaration on election night that he believes he won.
How did I miss that? The thing you always talk about.
So let me ask you a bit about fitness. Donald Trump ended a good half century of foreign policy. For instance, we no longer seek to forge middle east peace agreements that are totally dependent on the Palestinians. Is Biden going to return to what we used to do?
China is no longer the trading partner with special treatment we thought would become more reasonable. Is Biden now going to seek a better relationship with China?
Will he undo those technology restrictions?
You did mention fitness.
No both you and Gordy are. Trump never declared victory.
You were arguing against my position that COVID-19 is the predominant factor in Trump's loss by arguing that Trump was normalized. You put forth an arguable truth but that truth does not counter the point I made (the one you quoted).
I stayed on point.
Okay Vic, obviously you are not going to recognize the difference between an individual declaring victory in a speech and a campaign formally declaring victory.
It is you who doesn't want to see the difference. That's funny...you were always such a stickler for such things.
I think that Trump's normalization does counter your belief that Trump would have been elected if not for covid.
If he hadnt been normalized (very unjustifiably in my opinion) he would have lost by a large margin. ( The alternative to that being that there is something really wrong with America. )
Vic you just now admitted that there is a difference. Hello? That is the point I have been making — that a formal declaration from the campaign is different from an individual informal declaration such as what Trump made and what Gordy noted.
Then Gordy should have specified that Trump felt he won and that he was robbed, instead of you trying to stretch it into a declaration of victory. That's what Trump was talking about on election night. His feelings!
Hello!
A link would have demonstrated that.
I agree with you that if more people viewed him as you do that he would have lost regardless of any other factor.
TIG, Donald Trump was a KNOWN pathological liar, crook, bigot, moron and cheat BEFORE he was elected in 2016.
Why didnt people perceive him that way?
You sound like there are justifiable reasons to look at Trumps fitness for office in a favorable light. Nonsense.
Why do you need a link? This is common knowledge. Trump: "Frankly, we did win this election."
etc. etc. etc.
Are you suggesting that everyone knew this? Hardly. Also, I suspect a bunch of his supporters expected him to moderate when he became PotUS. ( Did not happen. )
A lot of people recognize Trump as an asshole but liked other factors and were willing to live with his negatives. You can see that right here on NT. It is not as if all conservatives here hold the position that Trump is a great person (or president). They (excluding the nutcase(s)) have been telling you that they vote for his policies in spite of the person.
No. Wrong. Stop putting words in my mouth. What you stated does not follow in any way from anything I have written.
Context, context, context.
Trump: "Frankly, we did win this election."
That is a declaration. Basic English.
It is not a formal campaign declaration but it is obviously a declaration from Trump. Just as Gordy stated.
Admit the obvious.
As long as the obvious doesn't match ideology, it will never be acknowledged.
False!
You deliberately eliminated the context:
"This is a fraud on the American public," Trump said. "This is an embarrassment to our country. We were getting ready to win this election. Frankly, we did win this election. So our goal now is to ensure the integrity for the good of this nation. This is a very big moment. This is a major fraud on our nation. We want law to be used in a proper manner. So we'll be going to the U.S. Supreme Court. We want all voting to stop. We don't want them to find any ballots at 4 o'clock in the morning. It's a very sad moment. To me, it's a very sad moment. We will win this. As far as I'm concerned, we already have won."
Give it up!
Some people can't admit when they are wrong.
The context does not change the declaration.
You can take any statement and then claim that it was taken out of context. That is a pretty lame tactic. The context here is that Trump was speaking to the American people on election night declaring that there is fraud in the election. And within this context he stated:
"Frankly, we did win this election."
That is a declaration. It is not a formal campaign declaration. It is an informal declaration from Trump.
Well said. You asked for links and I gave you several and even a video of Trump speaking the above words. Denying clear proof is just silly. And to what end?
Donald Trump was a known liar crook bigot moron and cheat before the 2016 election. If I knew all that it was known. I am not an "insider".
Trump perpetrated birtherism in 2011. Two years after the state of Hawaii had officially declared birtherism to be nonsense by stating that Obama's original birth certificate was in the state archives. . How in hell was such a person considered presidential material, by anyone?
The problem with Trump haters is that they get so emotionally involved that they do what they accuse Trump of. The three of you have crossed that line. You are the most egregious.
You can play with print and keep right on dancing. You have nothing to do with your time but to keep serving up a disingenuous argument. Ok TiG, I have no place to go. We can go back and forth all day and It's you who will look bad.
Oh bullshit Vic. I did not seed hit pieces, etc. Hell, you can see me right here presenting both sides for consideration. I have consistently stated that Trump is a lying, narcissistic asshole because I honestly am convinced that my criticism is spot on. Yeah, it is negative, but I am not making this up. I am calling it as it is. That is not hate, it is objective reasoning.
So you deeming me part of the most egregious Trump haters is an example of emotion from you because it is not based on facts.
The worst thing to do with me is to play intellectually dishonest games. If you want me to cease I suggest you cease with the games.
That is hate.
If you want me to cease I suggest you cease with the games.
You can go from now until hell freezes over. You hid context. That is the undeniable fact.
Do you not recognize degrees? For example, lots of people knew that Trump was a dishonest guy. But did they really understand the level of dishonesty? Did they all know the depths of dishonesty and narcissism in Trump? Hardly.
Clearly people voted for Trump in 2016 knowing he was no angel. They voted for him in spite of his pussy-grabbing expose and ugly demeanor. As noted, they put that aside because other factors were deemed more important (e.g. not being a career politician, speaking his mind, promises of the wall, etc.).
And this time people had a much better understanding of Trump given the almost four years as PotUS. Yet even with that knowledge, he still came close in this election. I submit that if COVID-19 had not occurred and the economy had continued on its growth path and people remained content with their local lives, that Trump would have won this election.
It simply is a tough mental gyration to think that with a great economy, content electorate that the incumbent would not have won GA, PA, NV (and likely more) given the results after almost a year of suffering with a pandemic, massive unemployment, businesses going belly-up and the stress and worry that this pandemic continues to cause on a daily basis.
I give up.
Okay, now that is a flat out lie. Looks desperate. You ran out of an argument and thus demanded links. So I gave you links. I gave you the video. Where do you find me hiding anything? Further, all of these links are easily found (Google and you will see plenty of them). This is common knowledge that you are trying (poorly) to deny.
And the context, that you absurdly claim was hidden, does not change the fact that Trump did indeed declare that he won as he stated in the video I linked:
"Frankly, we did win this election."
So you can keep wrapping as much context as you wish around the declaration but the context does not change the meaning of his words.
If you want to win an argument, I suggest you first stand on the side of the facts. It is difficult to prevail when your facts are wrong on the onset.
FYI, as to hiding the context, the White House.gov News page, which publishes transcripts of Trump's 'remarks' STILL hasn't posted the transcript from Trump's Nov. 4th 'remarks', including his campaign statements. They did finally post the Nov. 5th statement yesterday, though I don't know if it has been reviewed for accuracy. They HAVE been known to 'fudge' transcripts.
So why is the WH refusing to document what Trump said in the early hours of Nov. 4th and to what purpose.
It is the truth...and there you've done it again. You highlighted that one part of that little speech that falsely appears to be a declaration. You omitted "We will win this election" and the entire premise - that he was being robbed.
So keep proving my point!
Highlight it again for us!
I highlighted where Trump declared that he had won. You, in contrast, seek to deny those words by claiming they mean something different given the context. Yet you fail to show how any context changes the meaning.
Gordy noted that Trump (not Trump’s campaign) declared that he won the election. He did not claim this was a formal campaign declaration.
So the sentence I provided within as much context as you can supply proves Gordy correct.
Worse, this is common knowledge. You are trying to argue against solid video evidence corroborated by myriad news reporting of same.
You are demonstrably wrong and no amount of protesting will change that. Interestingly, the same holds true for Trump.
This is absurd.
And the only way to mitigate this kind of behavior is to keep challenging the BS until it stops.
I am correct.
Trump was expressing his feelings. BTW had every right considering the specter of watching substantial leads melt away in four states. The same thing he talked about happening elsewhere prior to the election.
My sledge hammer is just as good as yours.
BTW I don't wear down, so keep trying to claim that way a victory celebration.
Yes, Trump was expressing his feelings. Gordy did not state that the Trump campaign formally declared victory, he wrote:
Note the phrase "Trump's declaration of victory" and compare it to:
... and ...
Both are these qualify as: "Trump's declaration of victory" to anyone familiar with the English language. Not a formal campaign declaration, but a declaration by Trump himself just as Gordy wrote.
Verifying a vote is incredibly easy. You match the name and signature to what is in the registration rolls. The opportunity for "fraud" is virtually non existent as long as there are poll judges from both parties examining the ballots, as was the case in this election.
Trump has lost Pennsylvania by tens of thousands of votes. Does any sane person think there has been fraud on that scale here? (or any scale)
But your argument has no foundation and the facts are not on your side. Critical difference.
And as I stated before, Gordy was also wrong on the historical analogy. Dewey was forecast as the winner, it had nothing to do with a pep speech. If anything it would be an analogy to all the insane polls we saw proclaiming a blowout!
I think anyone who read or saw Trump's pep talk would agree with me!
You are deflecting; I have made no comment regarding the Dewey sentence. Just the claim by Trump.
Trump declared as Gordy stated. We have Gordy's words and we have Trump's words; even Trump on video expressing same. You can add any amount of context you wish but the fact will always be that Gordy is correct: Trump did indeed declare victory; he did it as an individual and it was not a formal declaration by his campaign. Just as Gordy stated.
By the way, I suspect his campaign cringed when they heard him make that declaration.
I'm not deflecting, just repeating what I said before. Every time I see the false Dewey analogy, I'll say it again.
You can add any amount of context you wish
I'm adding all of it and it spells TRUMPS FEELINGS! Sorry, TiG, no victory speech.
By the way, I suspect his campaign cringed when they heard him make that declaration.
By the way, I knew people would try and twist it - Just like they do with virtually everything he says. It's an obsession.
Thanks, but I saw it when it happened. It's like taping somebody who says I could just kill 'em. It's all about context
Let's see how easy this is:
“Fulton County has discovered an issue involving reporting from their work on Friday. Officials are at State Farm Arena to rescan their work from Friday,” Raffensperger said . “The Secretary of State has a monitor onsite, has sent additional investigators, and dispatched the Deputy Secretary of State as well to oversee the process to make sure to thoroughly secure the vote and protect all legal votes. Observers from both political parties are there as well.”
Brendan Keefe, chief investigator at Atlanta’s WXIA, says that the issue “*may* significantly affect the current Biden lead in Georgia.”
Deflection!
If you are going to now argue about the Dewey analogy you should take that up with someone who has challenged you on that. Taking it up with me is simply deflection from what we are discussing: Trump's declaration.
I already stated that it was Trump's feelings; of course it was his feelings. I have argued that it was Trump and only Trump who made the declaration so clearly this can only be Trump's feelings because his declaration was clearly NOT based on facts and NOT based on sound reasoning. Of course it was 'feelings" which caused him to express:
... and ...
Just as Gordy stated:
You denying that Trump declared victory not only counters the news reports, but counters what Trump actually said. It is amazing to watch this stubborn defiance of clear fact.
And another deflection; who is talking about a " victory speech "? Gordy did not claim that Trump gave a victory speech. Gordy stated it was a " declaration of victory ", not a " victory speech ". A declaration , not a speech . Your continued attempts to move the goalposts should tell you loud and clear that you are not going to change the facts of this matter.
There is nothing to twist; Trump's words are right there and even shown in the video as they emerged from his mouth. The only person twisting (spinning) is you.
I already gave him the video, he refuses to acknowledge it and simply cries context, context, context with no explanation as to how the context changes this from a declaration by Trump (the individual) of victory.
Why don't we admit that a presidential candidate does not declare victory until he/she reaches 270?
It's been four years of jumping on everything Trump says. He thinks there was fraud in those key states who changed their election laws just before an election. Like everything else he felt over the past four years, I can only assume he is right again, as usual! The problem is likely to be no evidence.
A campaign should not declare victory until it credibly reaches 270. Typically this declaration is based on a consensus of the media and the campaign's internal metrics.
There is nothing to admit, this is simply what is normally done. It is atypical for a presidential candidate to declare victory well before the media (collectively) has called the race in his/her favor.
Well if the PotUS makes a public declaration, that seems to be something that people have the right to consider and criticize.
Yes he had noted his concern with fraud. He cried foul in 2016 too. Given the lack of meaningful fraud in our system and the utter lack of evidence put forth by Trump for this campaign, I personally see this as an irrational defiance of reality. Trump, I suspect, simply cannot accept the fact that he is going out as a one-term president. And being the narcissist he is, he will drag this country through shit with total indifference rather than face reality like a rational adult.
He had to go through a lot shit when he won, why should it be any different now?
Because he has clearly lost this election.
That is a good point, but he might not see it that way. His head is full of Jill Stein contesting the last election and the move to get delegates to vote against him and the riots that took place on his inauguration day and the fake investigations over Russia collusion and the lying media telling the nation that he was a Russian agent for 3 years and the way Kavanaugh was smeared and the faux impeachment presented as a Christmas present and his family being smeared and China allowing the virus to infect the world. Ya, I'd say he just might feel that he really doesn't have to go Gentle into That Good Night !
Feelings can be irrational and inconsiderate. He should not harm the nation with this gratuitous and pointless legal game.
On November 7th Trump tweeted: "I WON THIS ELECTION, BY A LOT."
Trump did declare victory. See my comment 2.2.68.
I had already posted on NT the same thing. In that regard Trump and the Republicans will now blame China for their loss notwithstanding that Trump handled the containment of the virus more negligently and callously than any other leader in the world, leading to the greatest proliferation of infections and deaths in the world, compared with lesser nations having done so much better towards recovery. Don't ignore the fact that out of his own mouth, he admitted that he delayed acting for SO MUCH LONGER than China is accused of having delayed.
AND, Biden, Harris, Pelosi and the Democrat Party can THANK China for putting them in a position to take over the torch and do something effective to try to alleviate the effects of the virus on America, reverse the harm Trump has done to America and the rest of the world, and recover the respect of the rest of the world for America.
The big font helps, lol.
"he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts "
Donovan's Brain is a 1942 science fiction novel by Curt Siodmak
The quote was also used in the book It by Steven King
I have been thinking the same thing ..... I am thinking she will pick up where Trump leave'ishs it! [with the noted albeit]
Here is to both of us being wrong.
From your lips to.... !
I am however, not placing any bets against us .... : )
Hopefully the GOP can produce a candidate worth vetting in 2024
I see you've paired sour grapes with your crow. Yum.
Or is it that you're gloating? I'm not surprised.....It was 4 long years, wasn't it?
I'm not gloating, just noting your disappointment.
Question, why "monastery" in the title of your article ?
You're noting that? I'm noting people up on the fence surrounding the WH holding signs. I let others decide who's notations are closer to the mark.
Question, why "monastery" in the title of your article ?
There is a very important reason for the title. Unfortunately, I can't divulge it today.
That's actually the title of a book and it has been usurped by certain conservative groups.
A bit of Zen, the metaphor of the new patriotism means to shut oneself off on a mountaintop in self exile.
Well read for your self to see if this sounds patriotic.
You will let us know in 2 weeks? Oh, wait... that's Trump... about everything.
Guess who all got reelected overwhelming Nov 3rd!
"We lost races we shouldn’t have lost. Defund police almost cost me my race bc of an attack ad. Don’t say socialism ever again. Need to get back to basics.".... Democrat House rep Spanberger
And yet, the entire Squad were all overwhelmingly reelected while Donald Trump went down in ignominious defeat!
You own them...and that is your wing of the party.
... kind of like all the "boy" groups that belong to the right wing.
You men the ones few people have ever heard of?
Link?
A link to my opinion? Lol.
CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT?
You posted a statement that you allege quotes Rep. Spanberger, NOT your opinion Vic. Stop deflecting and provide a link please.
Why not just admit that your 'quote' is fabricated Vic?
Your comment is a mischaracterization of what Rep. Spanberger said AND it's OUT OF CONTEXT, which you falsely claimed is important to you.
And the woman from Qanon...
Does anyone think that a president Biden retains any of Trump's advisors?
I'm thinking of one.
Eh, why not? He earned it.
Come on Vic, you are not going to blame Dr. Fauci, are you?
By the same measure, couldn't Hillary blame Comey for his October mistake? But I am sure you were fine with that.
Sometimes, one needs to step back and look at things in equal measure.
Do I blame him for the defeat of the President? No, nor did I say that. I think you missed my point. I'm saying that as of tomorrow when Biden names his covid team - Dr Fauci will be a part of it. I believe the only Trump advisor Biden will retain. The implication I'm making is that Dr Fauci was a tool of the left....just as Joe Biden is.
It would behoove you to endeavor to be more cogent.
Actually, he won't. Fauci is a government employee and CAN NOT be part of Biden's transition team.
Fauci isn't a 'Trump advisor Vic. Dr. Fauci is the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and has been since 1984. He is NOT a Trump appointee and NOT a political appointee.
You're wrong on both counts.
How many Republican advisers do you think Trump fired in the last four years?
apparently not enough of them. loser. end of term.
Well, I started to write a comment but realized this seed will be locked and tossed in the trash. Why bother?
Sorry Nerm, I don't just leave them open forever. News & topics change on a daily basis, as in TODAY. There are those who love to have the last word or cover the same points over & over - which doesn't make them right. BTW, nothing is thrown in the trash. Closed articles can still be looked at. As far as this one goes - you have until Monday morning.
Actually, that is quite astute. There has been more than one occasion that I have turned on my computer in the morning to find a nasty comment directed at me on his seeds/articles, but find them locked preventing me from defending myself or correcting a misinformed statement.
Every blanking time, it seems, lol.
Let's keep it on an adult level. No molotov cocktails.
The polls were wrong because people are not going to openly admit to being anti democracy, anti equality, anti facts, anti science, and anti education. They lie because they know it's wrong how they feel. It's immoral and unprincipled so they pretend to support the candidate that represents honor and integrity. Deep down they are broken and warped like the man currently sitting in the WH.
The media has not been debating Trump for the past 4 years. They've been correcting his LIES.
Well said.
The "secret trump voters" were people too ashamed to admit publicly or on phone polls their support for the trash that posed as POTUS these past four years.
So WHO do you claim was so successful at suppressing the Trump vote and donors?
You know that states with Republican governors changed their rules too right Vic?
Oh and BTFW, NO state changed their rules via a Governors decree.
It hasn't.
Because mail in/absentee ballots take longer to count Vic. They ALWAYS have.
Pennsylvania's GOP refused to allow mail in/absentee ballots to be touched until election day and in some areas, until YESTERDAY.
See above.
Again Vic, states with GOP Governors added to or subtracted from those laws too. Just stop.
Which ones?
What are you basing your opinion on Vic? You're claiming some kind of fraud AND destruction of evidence thereof without one iota of evidence. You know that observers were present in Philadelphia and everywhere else right?
So the 'coastal elite' control all of the major institutions including Wall Street but they have no concept of how the American economy works? How the fuck did the 'greatest economy ever' happen under Trump then? Do tell Vic?
Gee Vic, I haven't noted BA degrees and social backgrounds being documented on any indictments. Care to post some examples?
It's your fantasy, you tell me.
Vic, you are fucking with my all time favorite movie. What you said about the final scene of The Searchers isn't true. PLEASE STOP!
Your comment implies that Trump will STFU and fade into the shadows after the inauguration. I can only hope that you are right for once.
Show me where I said they were successful? The degree of which we will never know. Were they successful in convincing donors that Mitch McConnell or Lindsey Graham were beatable? Honest answer please?
Right in that comment Vic.
Your comments make it obvious that you think that the 'suppression of Trump votes and Trump donors' WAS successful to SOME degree.
WTF do Trump's votes and donors have to do with Mitch and Lindsey being beatable? It's obvious that voters split tickets EVEN in KY and SC.
Honest question please.
When I say "we will never know" - that's what I mean. It's clear black & white and you can't change it.
WTF do Trump's votes and donors have to do with Mitch and Lindsey being beatable?
Wasn't it the pollsters who gave donors the impression that those Senate races were competitive? Donors rushed in with how many millions? All wasted btw, becuse Graham and McConnell weren't really in danger, were they?
A perfect example of pollsters trying to influence elections. Sorry, you won't admit it so I have to point it out.
Yet your ORIGINAL statement was:
You truncated your own fucking statement in a desperate failed attempt to make a point.
YOU tried and failed to change it Vic. You pretend to believe that CONTEXT is relevant and then RUN from the context of your own comment.
It drips with hypocrisy.
That's a lot of blather to deflect from posting an answer to my question Vic. YOU set the predicate but can't seem to plant your feet anywhere, mostly because you don't have a fucking foundation for a cogent argument. You won't admit it so I have to point it out.
Oh dear!
The other problem with the 2020 election is that despite the covid excuse about the need of mail-in ballots, the democrats are going to want to do it again in the next election. There is just something about hanging the GOP votes out there as a target for all those votes that are being held back. Notice how differently things went in Florida where the mail-in's were counted as they came in.
You keep whining about that yet seem to be desperately ignoring the FACT that the Governor and Sec. of State TRIED to allow the mail in ballots to be counted before the election day but the GOP majority legislature REFUSED to allow it. So place the blame for your angst where it belongs.
They also didn't allow them to float in 3 days after - that the Gov ran to the State Supreme Court for. How can the Court circumvent the state legislature?
You have NO fucking clue what you're talking about Vic. The Governor didn't have any part in that. Get eductated.
READ the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling Vic. It's based on their Constitution.
Then we'll rely on your brilliance - How did the question come before the State Supreme Court?
READ the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling Vic. It's based on their Constitution.
OF COURSE....They are claiming that they can circumvent the legislation because of an emergency - We will see about that!
Thanks for admitting that you have no basis for your false claim about the Governor. If you actually want to educate yourself before posting more bullshit, GO READ the ruling.
I find it quit sad that all too many members here have all the information they need to make cogent comments yet they petulantly refuse to avail themselves of it and would rather just make shit up.
You were asked how it went to court? Don't you know?
I find it quit sad that all too many members here have all the information they need to make cogent comments yet they petulantly refuse to avail themselves of it and would rather just make shit up.
Then maybe you should stop.
You've already falsely stated that the Governor ran to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court Vic. IF you could support your false claim, you would have done so by know. It's not my burden of proof, it's YOURS.
Oh and BTFW, there are quit a few question that I have asked the you have left unanswered. Instead of playing deflection games, why not answer them.
If you want to be taken seriously, maybe you should START doing some research instead of spewing unsubstantiated unfounded bullshit Vic. I for one am tired the attempts at gaslighting.
We have reached the finish wire