Unity, healing and Joe Biden
How many voters voted for Joe Biden thinking a Biden victory would be a return to normalcy?
We are very close to Biden taking control of the government. In the meantime there has been a crackdown on free speech by the democrat's allies in big tech. Supporters of the outgoing President are being ostracized & blacklisted. What shall become of the half of America that supported Donald Trump?. Because there is an effort to lump the 74 million Americans who voted for Mr. Trump with those who assaulted the Capitol, the nation has become polarized. We have seen that dramatically right here on NT.
So what will the man who promised to unify America do?
Thus far he has already falsely claimed that Wednesday's rioters were given special treatment that the lefts rioters were not. That is gaslighting on steroids! Here we had a protester shot and killed and 300 arrested with a genuine resolve to prosecute. The opposite of what happened to the thugs who terrorized big blue state cities all year.
Back to my question what happens to half the country? Some Trump supporters (but not all) believe the election was stolen.
Does that make them white supremacists?
If Joe Biden meant what he said about being president for all Americans, including those who didn’t vote for him, he has to get started without delay. Tomorrow Nancy Pelosi intends to impeach the President for inciting an insurrection. She doesn't even care about bringing it to trial. It's all to degrade Trump and his entire legacy and prevent him from running again. There is the staring point for Biden. He needs to speak up and tell Pelosi that Trump is on his way out the door and it's time to heal the country.
I doubt it can be done. It would take a real leader.
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Thus far Biden has only widened the divide.
No.
How has Biden made anything better?
He defeated Trump. That is a good start.
Has Biden taken office yet? So far, he's been selecting members of his cabinet. Beating Trump is also a good way to make things better.
He is not engrossed in an EVIDENTIAL scandal already.
Only due to Trump supporters who cannot accept reality or refuse to participate in closing any divide or help promote healing.
The far right wing fanatics here on NT are testament to that.
Indeed.
although I would love to have senators that support sedition on the record now, the house needs to hold off sending the articles of impeachment to the senate until all of the new administration's political appointees have been confirmed. there will be no unity with, or mercy for, seditionists and their supporters and there never will be.
last wednesday was a fork in the road, a litmus test between those that support the US Constitution and the rule of law, and those that don't. the visuals were clear to anyone watching who they were. for those that don't think the election was fair without any evidence of the contrary having been presented to any court of law in over 2 months, that level of ignorance is on them. if they wish to live in an autocracy or theocracy, they need to find one and immigrate to it.
severe actions require severe consequences. IMO those few that attempted a coup should be found, prosecuted, and never see the light of day again. the next 4 years will determine the difference between those that support America and those that don't. As a patriotic American citizen, I am fully prepared to lay down my life defending the US Constitution from insurrectionists in the most efficient and permanent methods available to me at that time.
Trump is already trying to worm his way out of any responsibility. He was shoveling the bs to white house reporters this morning.
let him shoot his mouth off, just more evidence on video.
And so do I.
What about Biden's campaign promise?
How many voted for him seeking normalcy?
When has he ever accepted responsibility for any of the SNAFU FUBARs he has been responsible for?
promises made to republicans before the attempted coup are now null and void.
Do you think promises were made to Republicans that were totally different than campaign promises to Democrats?
That just seems awfully crazy to me.
cool. see? common ground. do you fish? let me know if you ever get out to colorado and we can do a float trip down the CO river on the western slope. it'll be a lot of fun.
what doesn't? where again in texas do you live?
That would be fun, at least a bit different than fishing the ocean for Cod & Haddock.
Ocean fishing is the best around here. Especially out by the oil rigs.
(Gulf fishing I should say)
What are the prized fish there?
Red snapper is pretty popular, they ended up putting a size limit on those though.
Sane stuff.
Irrelevant and unresponsive.
We don't have those here. Sounds interesting.
You can't even name any of those "SNAFU FUBARs"
Honestly, I'm not sure what Biden wants matters much. Pelosi seems to be in control of the Party and right now she's sharpening her knives. I just heard on the radio that the House put up metal detectors outside the chamber doors. Whatever house member was being interviewed indicated it was because they were afraid some of the Republican members may bring a gun and shoot them. Switching back and forth between MSNBC and CNN, they were really inventive with all the ways and reasons every republican is responsible or actually in on the plot to overthrow the government. In short, it sounded like the kind of talk Trump gave at the rally, Wednesday, only tailored to Democrats and SJW's.
So, what Biden may plan, promise or want may be moot. It looks like Pelosi has the bit between her teeth an she's not going to give it up until she's destroyed every enemy she can. Maybe she won't ever give it up. Whatever happens, it should be interesting.
How Biden deals with Harris, (the Sanders|Warren|AOC factions), Pelosi and Schumer will be an early indicator for the next two years.
Biden should be focusing on COVID-19 and the recovery of the economy. How far he varies from that will be instructive.
Yes, it will. I wonder, though, if it hasn't already started. I'm not an expert in transitions, one thing I've heard (not sure who said it or what news outlet) was that the Senate should already be working on confirming Biden's picks for Cabinet and whatever else. I don't know if that's true, but it would make sense. If they are, he's already going to be behind where he wants to be. From what I understand, Biden doesn't want to waste a lot of time on Trump but, so far, there's little indication the Dems are listening. We'll have to see what develops, I suppose.
Biden can only communicate his wishes to Congress. He has no power to direct their agenda.
A reported comment like this :
... suggests that Biden would rather impeachment of Trump not take place, but we really do not know.
I would not be surprised if Biden thought that impeachment would do more harm than good and that it just steals critical time from establishing his administration.
Agreed. Pelosi seems, to some extent, obsessed with Trump. Possibly more than simply him, though. A lot of Dems seem to want to go after half of Congress it seems like. Hard to tell what's real and what isn't with all the rhetoric. I think what I'll be watching for is how long it takes Pelosi to notice Biden is president and her behavior once she does and start working on at least some of Biden's agenda. Not that I'm thrilled about what I think a lot of that agenda will be.
I've heard more than a few pundits say the same. I think there's some truth to that. If so, I think Biden would be right to leave Trump behind as fast as possible if he has an actual agenda he wants to accomplish. Gotta tell you, though, I have serious doubts about the rest of the Dems being able to let go. Not just of Trump but all the Republicans as well, based on the news clips I've been watching. I wasn't kidding when I said earlier, a lot of what is being said on the Dem side seems just as bad, or crazy, as Trump's Capital speech to me, just packaged for the left. I'm more than a little worried.
I have long since lost faith in our federal politicians. Given they are, I am convinced, there to pursue political careers rather than actually work for the people, I do not take any insane option off the table.
Boy! I feel ya. I have this sense of "what's the point anymore!"
To me the key is the PotUS. The right leader could work through the utter nonsense of Congress. Nothing miraculous of course, I am not expecting superhuman abilities. But there are principles of leadership, there are charismatic individuals and, importantly, there are plenty of opportunities for a PotUS to keep the citizens of the USA aware of what s/he is trying to accomplish and why and to use this voice to help keep Congress in line. Trump had the right idea with his willingness to communicate. The problem was the quality of the communication.
Unfortunately we have not had a lot of luck with PotUS' for quite some time.
That reads ridiculous coming from a commenter sworn into the service of a truthful God. I admit, I have done my share of tearing Donald Trump a new one on social media because he leaves no quarter to anybody he doesn't like: Surely, republicans are feeling the "burn" too? Think Pence - last Wednesday - chiny chin chin. That last is rhetorical. In my heart, I wish all people fair days and sails.
Drakkonis, may the Spirit of Truth be in you, then you can tell me, us, why you think it okay for Donald Trump to 'march' his supporters down to the Capitol and wreck Nancy's House and McConnell's Senate and just somehow it the democrat's fault!
Donald Trump lost this election - do you or don't you agree he lost his presidential bid 2020?
All politicians drag 'pus-filled' members from the opposing side throughout there terms as a given. Truth be told, being a politician is a job that evidentially is full of shit.
Ironically, the more sophisticated this country gets, the more it appears to want to appear 'stunted.' I mean, our 200 plus years experiment had the rapt attention and best wishes of the world, and then came a navel-gazing president with his 'bump on a log.'
Biden is an astute politician. However, as is the case, a democrat president will have to wade into the sewer waters to pull and make pristine the same 'waters,' as before. All the while, political "sewer dwellers" will do their best to create sludge, slips, and suctions that slow down even the bravest and best!
This week Biden was (again) asked about impeachment of Donald. Long comment short; Biden wants Congress to 'own' its problematic president of four years. Biden really does have a full set of opening 'chores' to manage and get going.
Of course, "pus-filled' opposition will do what it can to bog him down with the drudgeries of the office. It's par for the course.
Ironically, the presidency of the United States is really a job for more than one man, because there are just too many 'mouths' in this country wagging 24/7 for any one man to make enough 'satisfaction.'
I don't have the time, nor would I waste it, on you
It won't be too hard this time as Trump has become radioactive for most Republicans. I'm sure some blame him for the two GA Senate losses. This is that final scene for the tragic hero.
tRump is no hero, not in any way, shape, or form.
Well, given the fact that he hasn't even assumed the office of President yet-- don't you think its just a tiny bit premature to judge his record of his accomplishments during his term as president?
Nancy Pelosi is not a monster. The demon-spirited man is this failed president, Donald J. Trump, who never gives up, even when he has lost what's worth having.
Have you condemned the attempted coup? Will you condemn the next when it occurs?
Exactly, with a steady and decisive hand, I believe his intentions are. I'm sick he has to start this out with dealing with half the gang of leadership focused on the insurrection, but that's what they were hoping for. Distracting while they're still out doing all the dirty work of divisive culture war politics. Joe can walk and chew bubble gum though, I have no doubt and then he has Momma Bear Kamala. Grrrrrrrrrr!!! I can't wait!
Nothing about his presidency will bring immediate change but for this assault, it damn well will bring accountability to the highest levels. They'll be shocked I tell ya, shocked!
Did you mean to say, "This is that final scene for the tragic zero"?
Sorry Vic - couldn't resist.
So... Now that the coup has failed... A call for unity?
Which coup? The Russia hoax? The phone call? The blaming of the pandemic on the President?
What about Biden's campaign promise?
Don't play stupid Vic. We know better.
Well played Steevie. I don't know whether to take it as a compliment or an insult.
How do you account for the fact that while Biden has only widened the divide-- during his time in office Trump has done the opposite?
Trump has brought people of opposing viewpoints together-- in fact, more than any other president in history!
Under Trump, there's been unprecedented harmony between even the people on the far left and the far right.
How do you account for the fact that while Biden has only widened the divide-- during his time in office Trump has done the opposite?
Trump has brought people of opposing viewpoints together-- in fact, more than any other president in history!
Under Trump, there's been unprecedented harmony between even the people on the far left and the far right.
He brought Blacks and Whites together.
Moslem and non-Moslems.
Fundamentalist Evangelical weirdos-- and non-Beleivers!
Native born and immigrants.
All living together in peace and harmony like never before-- all this only because Trump has "narrowed the divide"
There hasn't been a crackdown, abide by their ToS or find another platform and quit your fucking crying. God I am sick of the whining that people are being treated unfairly because they aren't following the rules or this idiotic idea that one business for some reason must work with another.
I have yet to see where free speech has been unreasonably infringed upon. Some people sure like to whine about it. But they cannot seem to demonstrate how their speech has been "cracked down" on.
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oh ow, I guess the truth can be painful.
It goes beyond fairness:
in a perfect world that document would blind seditionists and anyone supporting them.
Congress isn't the ones infringing on Parler users rights
No, it's Big Tech and Academia.
That's nice. Prove it?
Try actually reading it dude. At no point is Twitter or Facebook mentioned. In fact, the first amendment doesn't mention anyone EXCEPT for Congress. The Bill of Rights applies ONLY to the US government, no other entities. It does not apply to businesses, it does not apply to individuals.
Go ahead and prove it in Academia's case, in the case of big tech no they aren't because they can't. They can't because the first amendment does not apply to them. "Congress shall make no law", end of discussion.
I get it.
Let's face it, even though the government isn't taking away free speech, it is still being taken away - by monopolies with the power to do it.
Exhibit A:
The New York Post having their account closed.
Then why are you showing a picture of the Bill of Rights?
Welcome to Corporate America! This is what you conservatives have wanted all along. Now you have it and it doesn't feel very good does it?
Correct, so the 1st amendment nor the constitution is under attack. So why use that imagery when trying to whine about supposed conservative "victims"?
First, they're not monopolies. Just because a larger portion of people choose one format or platform over another does not make that company a monopoly.
Second, since it's NOT a violation of the first amendment as you already admitted, who cares if private companies set rules you or other conservatives don't like? Use your power to boycott those companies, that's your right. Just because the vast majority of Americans won't follow the weak sniveling pied pipers away from Twitter, Google, Facebook and Amazon doesn't make them evil. It shows the companies appeal and manage their platforms for the majority of their customer base which is what any capitalist company should do. Only communist pricks would force their will upon companies making them carry content or products that not only don't sell but are counter to the companies rules or stated policies. But I guess whiners will be whiners and bitch and moan about being a victim when they can't get the crazy unhinged filth they so desire.
You are trying to understand my logic and I'm trying to understand yours.
Let me get it straight: Because the First Amendment specifically prohibits Congress from denying free speech, you are ok with free speech being denied as long as private entities do it?
I don't think you would feel that way if all our universities and social media suppressed speech on behalf of let's say: Evangelicals.
I think one could accuse the social media giants of violating Antitrust Laws via unfair competition. Unfortunately, they own the democrats and some of the Republicans right now.
WHOSE free speech is being denied Vic?
Surely you can't mean Trump's. He's on his way to blather in Texas, he has the 'bully pulpit', he could call a press conference at any time he wants, he could call a joint session of Congress and spew his lunatic bullshit to his tinny little hearts content.
Practically every person that was on Parler was on facebook or twitter first. Any evidence that they have been denied access to their profiles? I know that even though Parler was shut down, BOTH of my RW Senators are still active on the other social media outlets.
Seriously, NO ONE has a 'free speech' right to flap their gums wherever the fuck they want. You violate the rules or the ToS, you get cut off. Ask Perrie...
Not really, but there is no law restricting it. Time to start lobbying your congress critters for an amendment to the First Amendment
Yeah...I would pretty much hate that shit. But...I really don't believe in restricting anyone's speech. It goes against everything I was taught and it goes against that Constitution I swore an oath to protect
So now you're for Anti-trust laws? What kind of conservative do you call yourself?
Then your issue is with private businesses, which are with their right to "censor." The government isn't censoring anything. So everyone still has free speech.
What REGULATION are Trump supporters trying to strap on to private companies now?! Trump supporters love DEREGULATION. Remember?
Let's call this what it is. Trump supporters are standing afar off and calling right wrong and wrong right.
Wait! What? Not the "high and mighty" liberty-lubber republicans too!!! Owned and enslaved by corporate positioning! Vic, you've got some 'plaining to do.
Besides Vic is being inconsistent. These are the same people who love to inform/admonish liberals that conservatives reserve the right to vote with their feet! As in moving on to better 'grazing pastures' with their wealth. They "championed" and preened for Parler when it was the new "crowded house" on the block!
Well, here is the strange occurrence of corporations deciding that not all money is good money so they don't want "a certain clientele" feet under their umbrellas, and Trump supporters are beginning to feel the old haunts are looking better already.
Conservatives are nearly homeless. Unless you count those undesirable, dark, damp, encrypted 'fronts' on the web where asses are "recognized" and slit from one butt cheek to the other with a homemade prison shiv.
Accusations needs evidence to be taken seriously. Like those who accuse Biden/democrats of "stealing the election."
Baseless assertion.
No one has to like it. But no one's free speech is being denied either. If one doesn't care for a certain business practice a company makes, then don't do business with that company.
Are they private or public entities?
At least you acknowledge that much.
I disagree. I haven't seen a lick of evidence that any of them have violated Antitrust laws or been "unfair" to their competitors. If they've been buying out their competitors and keeping other companies from creating search engines them you'd have a point, but I see no evidence of that. All I hear are whiny little babies crying that they're not carrying water for conservative conspiracy theorist and other nutter dumb shits. There are plenty of other search engines and social media companies you can use, you can even go start up your own, none of them are stopping you or any other conservative. All I hear from conservatives is the incessant whine that they aren't being allowed to access the large customer base these companies have earned.
Then you disagree with the House Judiciary Committee's antitrust panel?
"In a 450-page report, staffers for the House Judiciary Committee's antitrust panel wrote that there is "significant evidence" to show that the companies' anticompetitive conduct has hindered innovation, reduced consumer choice and weakened democracy.
Baseless assertion.
It's a slam dunk. Not only the suppression of the Hunter Biden story but their donations to Joe Biden and other democrats make it obvious.
If one doesn't care for a certain business practice a company makes, then don't do business with that company.
It's easy to say but where do you buy oil when Standard Oil is the only Oil company?
Are they private or public entities?
Universities? They are federally funded private entities.
At least you acknowledge that much.
Anything that's in the Constitution.
Liberals aren't liberals anymore.
no doubt. they're basically moderate republicans because trumpsters have gone so far to the right.
Freedom of speech applies to the government, not private companies who have every right to enforce their own rules on what is allowed. THIS site has similar rules.
Says WHO?
Another example of you making unfounded allegations then devolve to silence when challenged to support your claim.
You are batting 0 in this seed Vic.
Whatever qualifies as "liberal" for you - use that instead.
Sounds more like a complaint against success. It's capitalism in action. Such companies are successful because they put out a product consumers want and use.
When there is only 1 company, then get back to me. There's still plenty of competition out there.
And they're not prohibiting free speech.
Good. Then you know the government isn't prohibiting free speech rights. But that doesn't apply to private enterprises.
Thank-you for the reminder! I knew I was missing something
The first Amendment, lets look at that
I see nothing in there against anyone but congress. It does not say people. It does not say companies or corporations. So the first amendment only keeps the congress from doing these things.
That would be a violation of the RFRA.
So now you're anti-business.
What are you-- some kind of a ..Socialist! {gasp}
The GOP and their absurd rhetoric about the election has widen the divided and created a dangerous climate in America.
Trump is the current President and he has not only done diddly squat to help us heal, he has promoted insurrection.
And now he's possibly facing impeachment for his part in the insurrection. That's not exactly a good way to end one's tenure as President.
I hope his future life of paranoia and solitude lasts long enough to become destitute as well.
That would be karma.
To see him penniless, stripped of all assets, that and his criminal children also, and behind bars would be SWEET.
But it was Biden who made it a key campaign promise. How about it?
The man has not even been inaugurated much less been provided a grace period in which to get his administration up and running and to engage in his initiatives.
I think we should at least get past the shit storm resulting from Trump, let things calm a bit, etc. before holding Biden responsible for divisiveness in the nation.
And he is bringing together the branches of the government. He campaigned for, and won Democratic control of the Senate, and maintained Democratic control of the House.
I'm willing to give him time, so long as I don't hear divisive characterizations of White Supremacists and the appointment of a Black Supremacist to the powerful Civil Rights division at the DOJ.
"I think we should at least get past the shit storm resulting from Trump, let things calm a bit, etc. before holding Biden responsible for divisiveness in the nation."
Well, why not? All past ills that have befallen the nation - and any current ills - are the fault of Democrats and President Elect Joe Biden - is at fault for everything in the past and what will happen in the future.
While the current 'president' claims COMPLETE AUTHORITY YET ACCEPTS ZERO RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HE HAS WROUGHT
LOL! Sure ya are!
While I agree that Trump's actions from last week, he IMO has lost the right to sit in the office. I feel he should resign.
But let's be honest here, the Democrats did not give Trump time to get his administration up and running before they started their actions and the push for impeachment.
But let's be honest here, you think this 'president' should get a deal for inciting an insurrection, a mob, on the Capitol. You think this criminal enterprise of an administration should get a pass and his criminal offspring. Ridiculous. You think this 'president' should ALSO get a pass from the SDNY once he is out of the White House. Ridiculous.
Proof?
what sort of characterizations of white supremacists would you like ? "Jews will not replace us" ?
Are you arguing that two wrongs make a right? If so, that is the fundamental problem with partisan politics. Nobody takes the high road anymore and holds off on payback in order to foster a better spirit of cooperation.
The GOP had control of both houses and the presidency for 2 years, it isn't the Democrats fault they didn't do shit with it.
That was 2019, not Jan 2017. He had 2 years of full control of government to get this admin going and there was nothing the Dems could do about it. And he was impeached for trying to shakedown a foreign government to do him a domestic political favor.
Umm, are you arguing that people are being too hard on white supremacists? Seriously?
yup.
the wealthy and corporate america seemed to get what they wanted ...
Here is Biden's comment:
“They should be treated as a bunch of thugs, insurrectionists, white supremacists, anti-Semites,”
Can anyone show us the ideology of the people who stormed the Capitol?
Never mind pictures, I want to see what groups were involved and what is their beliefs.
There have been reports that the FBI and the NYPD knows specific leaders and groups and informed the Capitol Police. Those documents will be forthcoming. I'm pretty sure that as President elect, Joe Biden has been briefed on the events and the actors.
Is it your posit that pictures are irrelevant Vic? Since WHEN? Is it YOUR regular practice to purchase and wear the swag of political groups that you do NOT support? If so, WHY?
Investigations are ongoing, connecting the dots and building cases against the insurrectionists AND their infrastructure.
Absolutely not. Both sides are wrong in this, but if you are going to call out the Republicans for crapping on Biden then you should have been calling out Democrats as they were pushing for impeachment before Trump even took the oath and for calling for people to publicly confront and harass members of the Trump administration.
It appears that most people on the left want to keep this overwrought shit storm going for as long as possible.
By this standard there cannot be any complaints given for any pushback to the Biden administration as the Democrats will be starting in a week with control of both houses and the presidency.
May of 2017 was the first time Al Green called for Trump's impeachment.
What has he wrought other than try to correct the corruption of the radical left win?
That is fine, but you likely recognize that a common deflection away from the bad of one side is to ignore the challenge and simply note the failures of the other side. If something is wrong, it does not matter if the other side does it too. It is still wrong.
It does? How so?
I see them reacting to the ongoing irrational support for Trump.
An insurrection.
I don't have the time to waste, much less, on you . . .
They were wearing and carrying their ideology.
He had a republican congress for the first two years.
Did that stop Representative Al Green from calling for Trump's impeachment in May 2017?
But where do you stop?
By contrast Bush was protected from impeachment in 2008 by Nancy Pelosi...
Based on your comments here-- its obvious you are not. You are already judging his tenure as President-- before he's even been inaugurated!
Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene announced on Twitter Wednesday night she plans to file articles of impeachment against President-elect Joe Biden on January 21.
She's the Speaker of the House. The House is not part of the Senate.
Sure looks like you did.
LOL, yup...
dennis, are you aware that multiple Articles of Impeachment were filed against Trump that were NEVER acted on? That fact kinda of fucks up you 'MO' posit.
How many times have you and yours written off Pelosi? Please proceed...
Here's 2:
Here's 4 more:
I have NEVER written off Trump.
FAIL.
BTW, you're welcome.
You didn't seem to have any problem lumping in every BLM supporter, liberal and progressive and blaming them for the 5% of protests that turned violent even though 95% of the protests were non-violent. I didn't here you here defending the peaceful protesters claiming that blaming them for the violence would divide our nation. Just more non-stop hypocrisy from the right, but we've come to expect nothing less from those carrying water for this vile piece of shit criminal President.
He pointed out that if that crowd of thousands invading the capital had been BLM supporters the capital police would not have been backing off and simply blockading hallways, they would have fought back with force and we all know it and there would have been a far higher body count. Trying to smear Biden with your truly divisive lies and claiming what he said was "gaslighting on steroids!" while completely ignoring Trumps hate speech is monumental hypocrisy.
All of the violent riots where government buildings were attacked, police stations were destroyed, cops were attacked and shot etc.. disprove that argument. In all of the many, many violent riots the left engaged in (and continue to do so) how many unarmed people were shot and killed intentionally by police?
"The vast majority of Black Lives Matter protests—more than 93%—have been peaceful, according to a new report published Thursday by a nonprofit that researches political violence and protests across the world.
The Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED) analyzed more than 7,750 Black Lives Matter demonstrations in all 50 states and Washington D.C. that took place in the wake of George Floyd’s death between May 26 and August 22.
Their report states that more than 2,400 locations reported peaceful protests, while fewer than 220 reported “violent demonstrations.” The authors define violent demonstrations as including “acts targeting other individuals, property, businesses, other rioting groups or armed actors.” Their definition includes anything from “fighting back against police” to vandalism, property destruction looting, road-blocking using barricades, burning tires or other materials. In cities where protests did turn violent—these demonstrations are “largely confined to specific blocks,”.
I absolutely condemn those who chose violence and vandalism over peaceful protesting and they should be held accountable just like those who attacked the Capital. The fact is, the symbolism and import of attacking the Capital was of course far more egregious as it was directly attacking American democracy. There is no equivalent between burning some cars or dumpsters or even a police station and attacking our Capital building, invading with intent to kidnap/restrain our elected representatives, ransacking their offices and calling for them to be hung or worse.
The other fact many conservatives have refused to admit is that the 7% of protests that turned violent DID IN FACT have right wing instigators and many of the deaths like those of the officers in Oakland and Santa Cruz were committed by right wing fascists like the Boogaloo Bois and others. There have been ZERO left wing instigators found among the crowd attacking the Capital.
"The demographics of a largely white, young, and destructive group fit more with a movement known as accelerationists than Black Lives Matter . The accelerationists, if you have never heard the term, are an extreme subset of white nationalism whose goal is to bring about chaos and destruction. The basic tenet of accelerationism argues that since Western governments are inherently corrupt, the best (and only) thing supremacists can do is to accelerate the end of society by sowing chaos and aggravating political tensions. “Accelerationist ideas have been cited in mass shooters’ manifestos — explicitly, in the case of the New Zealand killer — and are frequently referenced in white supremacist web forums and chat rooms,” Zack Beauchamp explained.
White Supremacists pretending to host a protest to honor Floyd George on Facebook to whip up violence in San Diego were posted on the BLMSD social media warning people not to go and that it was a white supremacist organized rally. People attending demonstrations remarked on the fact that the demographics were wrong, in places like Oakland where the majority of the destruction was perpetrated by young Caucasian men has inspired not just people on social media but reporting in the mainstream media to properly question whether this is a form of infiltration by outside extremist elements."
"President Donald Trump portrays the hundreds of people arrested nationwide in protests against racial injustice as violent urban left-wing radicals. But an Associated Press review of thousands of pages of court documents tells a different story.
Very few of those charged appear to be affiliated with highly organized extremist groups, and many are young suburban adults from the very neighborhoods Trump vows to protect from the violence in his reelection push to win support from the suburbs."
Right-wingers continue to be arrested for violence against Biden supporters and at BLM protests
The facts are there for all who are willing to look, but I know few on the right have enough backbone to be able to stand up and accept the fact that much of the supposed "leftist" violence that erupted at BLM protests was actually right wing instigators, some even shouting for "justice for Floyd" and only being found out as right wing accelerationists hoping to start a civil war later. These are the same folk who showed up en masse for Donald Trump and felt, based upon his inflammatory speech, that they were given permission to attack the capital. Trumps lies have fueled this right wing extremist movement and any attempt to defend him should be seen as an attempt to cover for these vile violent seditious pieces of right wing filth that attacked our nation.
The vast majority of protests regarding the election have been peaceful. So what?
look, but I know few on the right have enough backbone to be able to stand up and accept the fact that much of the supposed "leftist" violence that erupted at BLM protests was actually right wing instigato
Because it's not true. You are telling falsehoods. I've caught you doing this before, remember? You cited the murder of a protester by another protester as "right wing violence" even though your own link said otherwise, among many other dishonest claims (like citing a right wing violence that occurred before the riots as right wing violence during the riots)
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Blaming the violence of the BLM protests on the "right wing" is simply dishonest, to put it politely.
So you ignored all the links that PROVE my claim? It is TRUE no matter how many times you try to claim it was not, the evidence is right in front of your face and you're still ignorantly shaking your head in denial. Sad to see such blatant denial of the facts.
"So you ignored all the links that PROVE my claim? It is TRUE no matter how many times you try to claim it was not, the evidence is right in front of your face and you're still ignorantly shaking your head in denial. Sad to see such blatant denial of the facts."
That's all he has, projection/deflection/denial
I love how Biden is now dividing the nation but not a single mention of Trump who has actively done that, nonstop, for 5+ years now. His entire presidency has been demonizing democrats, liberals, the media, and minorities.
I suspect the D partisans voted for Biden because they would never vote for an R candidate; they, of course, voted for the D. The balance of the votes likely were votes against Trump. To wit, it is my opinion that whoever was the D candidate this year (as long as the candidate was at least acceptable ... Sanders, for example, probably would have not been acceptable) would have likely beat Trump.
It sure seems as though there were quite a few in the electorate motivated to get Trump out of office. The Trump supporters did their jobs and showed up strong, but they were overwhelmed by an even stronger showing by Trump's opponents.
Thing is, if Trump had not so miserably screwed up with COVID-19 (trying to downplay it instead of encouraging everyone to take it seriously) he might have been reelected. His handling of COVID-19 and his horrible behavior on the first debate dissipated his advantage.
Given his behavior in office and the disgusting display of malignant narcissism after his loss, everyone should be relieved that he did indeed lose.
I'm still shocked that there were that many people that didn't see this scam artist for what he was 4 years ago. what a painful indictment of our institution of public education.
Given Trump has been lying and cheating his entire professional career, one should assume that the lying and cheating would not stop when he assumed the office of PotUS. Amazingly, his supporters blindly translated all lies into truth. We can see this phenomenon right here. There is no reasoning to be had. Trump is right no matter how outrageous the lie.
Our education system should do a better job of teaching critical thinking, but there are other factors at play here. How can millions of people believe this election was stolen in spite of all the evidence to the contrary simply because Trump continues to claim he won and has mountains of evidence to prove it? The evidence never manifested, the recounts went the wrong way for Trump, the courts rejected lawsuit after lawsuit yet his supporters ignored all of this and held to the belief that just because Trump said so the entire election process of the USA, for the first time in its history, has been successfully rigged to give the loser the presidency.
It is confirmation bias and gullibility at a rather astounding level.
I'm ashamed the world can see that 20+% of living americans are too fucking stupid to know the basic, right from wrong. what message does this send to our enemies?
Public education in the US has been run by the radical left for decades. Look no further than AFT, NEA, and their state/county branches for proof.
What evidence do you have that the 5 MILLION members of those associations are from the 'radical left'? Please be specific.
anyone with more than 3 functioning brain cells knows that better educations are based on available funding.
The US spends more on education than other countries. Why is it falling behind? | US news | The Guardian
U.S. Education Spending and Performance vs. The World [INFOGRAPHIC] - Blog | USC Rossier
Education Rankings by Country 2020 (worldpopulationreview.com)
NEA: Current President Becky Pringle, Democrat
AFT: Current President: Randi Weingarten, Democrat
Enjoy the read. The sources are from left wing media, btw. Good-bye.
Good post.
I am betting it will be ignored or spun so as it doesn't mean what it states.
Thanks. I'm sure it will be ignored. That's why I only bothered with Wiki - it's good enough, because the citations are from left wing sources.
The NEA and AFT are very wealthy unions, but the public education they now provide is sub-standard. Why? Because the union leaders take the biggest cuts for themselves and leave the crumbs for the rest of us.
The state of education in our country is not related to how much money is being spent. Other countries spend far less with much better results.
IMO, the teacher unions have done more harm than good for education.
And it seems to be a vicious cycle--teachers' unions pour money into Democratic coffers and then lobby those lawmakers for favors.
Are you a teacher and member of one of those unions?
You know that the unions are NOT responsible for funding local education right?
Well since you admit that other countries have better education results, it may behoove you to recognize that teachers are represented by unions in almost EVERY country too...
Got anything else?
I know that.
I just wish American teacher unions produced as well as the foreign teacher unions apparently do. It isn't a question of funding---as evidenced in my links.
It might behoove you to recognize that undeniable fact.
So why do we lag behind other countries despite the amount being spent?
The way you worded that makes it seem as if I denied at an earlier point, which I have not done. No one here disputed it here. When will you admit it?
I know three teachers trained and taught here in the US that 'produced' just fine in 'foreign' countries. One in k-12 and two professors that teach in Europe.
I didn't say anything to you about funding.
It might behoove you to recognize that undeniable fact.
IMHO, part of it is the delusion that the US is inherently 'exceptional', part cultural and sadly, part political.
It's interesting that Asian Americans who go to our same 'failed' schools as every other kid still manage to excel academically at the highest levels. Their culture honors and accentuates education. I saw it quite clearly during my time living in the Bay Area of CA.
It's quite sad that all too many Americans view education as 'elitism'.
I'm not responsible for how you interpret my comments Tex.
Wow, that is utterly fantastic.
And?
Well, that is your opinion.
Please do elaborate on how much the teachers' unions in America have furthered the education of our youth over the last 50 years.
I never claimed you were.
But it was a reasonable interpretation based on what you and you alone wrote, so there is that.
Yes, you are always the epitome of reasonableness Tex. /s
You are free, of course, to deny facts.
And if you don't like me calling you out for your underhanded, snarky comments meant to paint a different picture than reality, then stop.
Now, take the last word since it is important to you.
Bye.
I've denied NOTHING. Stop making shit up.
I could NOT care less.
You keep saying that and then post another comment.
Promise?
I don't see your block quote in Dulay's comment 5.1.4 . Interesting.
It is true that Americans don't value education these days. The school my kids graduated from is one of the best schools in the state, but I could see how much emphasis was placed on sports. And then there are the parents who think their angel doesn't do any wrong so the teacher calls in the parents for a conference and the teacher can't make him/herself heard. They don't want to hear bad things about their Precious.
It's that "everybody gets a trophy" mentality. Hard work is not valued any more.
"I don't see your block quote in Dulay's comment 5.1.4 . Interesting."
I was just making an observation - I don't know what the hell you mean
Plus, you never answered the question - are you a teacher and a member of one of those unions? You speak as if you are
Tell that to your state and local police and fire departments dennis...
Trump touted the fact that he garnered the support of Police unions. Seems they ARE relevant, at least politically.
It's not just liberal parents. I live in a very conservative town and I've seen the helicopter parents up close and personal where I live. And they all vote Republican
[Deleted]
Respect my authoriti.
A block quote that doesn't appear in an aforementioned comment isn't a personal observation. A block quote is a direct reference citing another person's words.
I know.
I've previously told you and others that I do not divulge much of my personal info, so please stop. My answer will be the same as I've told you before: My personal (real) life is no one else's business unless I wish to share it with you and/or others online.
Have a good evening, Tessy.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think
I don't know about that.
In the not so distant past, there were far more manual labor jobs that didn't even require much of an education or critical thinking skills.
Even in today's world, most jobs don't require higher math from what I have read.
Technology is replacing people in low skill jobs and high skill jobs. Most crops will be planted, tended and harvested by machines in the near future.
US companies have found it is far cheaper to import college educated foreigners for many jobs than it is to pay US college grads. This has been an ongoing practice for at least a decade, maybe more.
These days, US born citizens need skills to fill the niche jobs that machines and immigrants can't or won't do. The job pool will most likely continue to get smaller and smaller.
In all industrialized nations (except the US), the population is declining naturally as people are choosing to have limited family size to less than replacement rate. So the job loss in those nations is not as contentious as it is in the US. We are expanding our population through legal and illegal immigration. That is why both Republican and Democrat legislators have been trying to pass another "amnesty" for over a decade to expand US population so we won't run short of breeders, wage slaves, and soldiers to fight endless wars.
Our country, and the world, needs leadership that is embracing and planning for a future will a smaller population and smaller economic growth instead of promoting population growth that is not needed or even humane. People should not live their lives as wage slaves for people who make their living exploiting their fellow humans.
While IQ is not the whole picture of a person's intelligence, it is a factor.
Consider the average IQ in the US is around 100. That means that 50% of the US population has an IQ under 100.
Hopefully, in the near future, education will be tailored to a person's abilities and interests at younger ages so people can learn at their own pace.
That is obvious, but you would agree that there are those who are not so political, that simply voted for Biden so that they would no longer hear all the animosity over the air waves 24/7?
To wit, it is my opinion that whoever was the D candidate this year (as long as the candidate was at least acceptable ... Sanders, for example, probably would have not been acceptable) would have likely beat Trump.
Which leads us to another interesting question. It is clear to just about everyone that once the DNC Primary was reduced to Biden vs Sanders the democratic establishment quickly coalesced around Biden. We can only guess who arranged that. From there Biden got the support of Jim Clyburn, which delivered the black vote in South Carolina - the first primary win for Biden. Then came that Faustian deal with Sanders to cement the nomination and help from big tech in burying the Hunter Biden story.
Could it be that Biden can't really do anything he really wants under the weight of all those IOU's?
What the hell are you talking about - Hunter Biden????????
This reads as though you are referring to people who wanted Trump but were tired of the attacks on Trump so they voted for Biden? I must be misunderstanding because this makes no sense to me.
The DNC did not want Sanders just like the RNC did not want Trump in 2016.
I expect that Biden has plenty of competing political debts. That is in fact my key concern.
But you seem to be off on another track here. My comment was about why it is good for the nation that Trump lost. Even if Biden is hobbled by competing political debts we are better off having Trump out of the office because clearly he does not have the good of this nation in mind. His post election behavior especially should convince even the most loyal supporters that he must not be PotUS.
I'm referring to people who had no interest in politics but were tired of hearing about Trump. You don't know any? Really?
The DNC did not want Sanders just like the RNC did not want Trump in 2016.
So you think it was Tom Perez & co. That is very possible. And possibly Obama and others helped.
Even if Biden is hobbled by competing political debts we are better off having Trump out of the office because clearly he does not have the good of this nation in mind.
I'm sure you know how much I disagree with that.
His post election behavior especially should convince even the most loyal supporters that he must not be PotUS.
That's kind of a mute argument. After what happened on Wednesday he will never be PotUS again, but there are those who will continue to talk about nothing but Trump. Biden will eventually show us if he is strong enough to be more than a proxy. The GOP will try and rebuild. Most important, for the average working American, the search for a leader has begun.
Vic, I told you that I did not understand your statement. What is this 'you don't know any?' crap? You clarified and then presumed without even giving me a chance to comment on your clarification. Do you recognize what you just did?
To answer your question, now that I have a chance, I am sure there are plenty of casual voters who simply voted for a change due to animosity. Offhand I do not know if any in my circle thought that way, but it is certainly possible.
Why is this question relevant?
We are still talking about the DNC not wanting Sanders, right? Yes, given Perez heads the DNC, he certainly is critical in how it operates.
Kind of a vague answer.
There is nothing moot about it Vic. Look around at how many still cling to Trump. My argument is that given his behavior (especially the most recent), everyone should realize that it is good that he will not have a second term. It is sad and discouraging that so many continue to support Trump.
That's all they can do, deflect and distract. When you're a weak sniveling petulant child losing a game of chess, your obvious move is to just flip the board over and claim the opponent that was beating your ass somehow cheated.
Because I think a lot of people who wouldn't have even voted gave Biden a vote simply for some peace of mind.
Kind of a vague answer.
You do know how I feel about the things Trump did as President? Surely, I would disagree with your assessment.
My argument is that given his behavior (especially the most recent), everyone should realize that it is good that he will not have a second term.
For you he was the worst of all possibilities. Got it.
Okay. So if your hypothesis is correct, what point does that lead to?
But you do not explain why, given all that you now know about Trump, you would still want to see Trump holding the office of PotUS.
No. For me, of the two choices available to us, Trump is the worst choice. No need for drama ("worst of all possibilities").
I am truly mystified how anyone who pays close attention to what has been going on would still want to see Trump as PotUS.
The question is will they get the piece of mind they voted for? Did they really think this battle of ideologies is going to end now?
But you do not explain why, given all that you now know about Trump, you would still want to see Trump holding the office of PotUS.
Ok, I'll explain: I want border security, originalist Judges, fair trade deals, the remain-in-Mexico policy, a strong military and putting American jobs first. That's all going to be scrapped now.
CUT The crap! Donald Trump has gotten his fangs into the RNC, and he drove those damningly deep into its 'flesh.' Donald, "the Snake," intends to not let any of it go anywhere that he can not come.
The Republican Party will have to cut off its damaged "limbs" poisoned by an ASP named Trump, and restart anew. Bye Trump supporters- don't let the door hit any of you in the "crack" on the way out!
Love the imagery of your words.
That is a good question. One thing I can offer is that Trump was divisive. Will Biden be as divisive as Trump? I would be shocked if that were the case. But not being divisive as Trump does not bring the nation together. Biden will, at the best, make a little progress in four years but I predict the nation will remain harshly politically divided for the foreseeable future. To get past that we would need some exceptional role-model style leadership and there currently is nothing like that in place.
That I understand. You liked his policies and were willing to put aside his character flaws, dishonesty, etc. because ultimately he was pursuing an agenda you prefer.
But now, given what you know of his behavior in four years, coupled with his failing to properly act with COVID-19 (downplaying because he thought that was best for him politically regardless of what was best for the nation — aka putting himself first) and then especially this irrational, irresponsible election fraud con, how could you possibly want this malignant narcissist, pathological liar to be PotUS?
We didn't have any of that with Trump, despite all the bluster.
We can easily argue that the last two (both 44 & 45) were divisive.
but I predict the nation will remain harshly politically divided for the foreseeable future. To get past that we would need some exceptional role-model style leadership and there currently is nothing like that in place.
Agreed.
But now, given what you know of his behavior in four years, coupled with his failing to properly act with COVID-19 (downplaying because he thought that was best for him politically regardless of what was best for the nation — aka putting himself first) and then especially this irrational, irresponsible election fraud con, how could you possibly want this malignant narcissist, pathological liar to be PotUS?
It looks like I'm right back where I was in 2015 - on the Ted Cruz/Marco Rubio bandwagon, until something better appears.
Two who wound up carrying water for Trump? Vic, I recommend raising your bar over those two. I do not know who might emerge, but I hope the individual is substantially more impressive than those two.
China has the Biden's by the balls...the truth will come out eventually.
Perhaps it was the voters.
Well, until "the truth" (you seek) finally gets here can you damp down those conspiratorial senses of yours?
How many voters voted for Joe Biden thinking a Biden victory would be a return to normalcy?
81,009,468.
and PS: There will never be a return to 'normalcy'. And heads-up, it will take all of us working together to figure out the road to recovery.
Contradictory, or are you now claiming that 81,009,468 voters were wrong?
Back to my question what happens to half the country? Some Trump supporters (but not all) believe the election was stolen.
Does that make them white supremacists?
Yes, a large number of them are white supremacists the remainder of them that believe that the election has stolen are delusional.
Some are both white supremacists and delusional. A twofer.
As long as Trump tells them to believe it, they are going to continue to believe it.
Um hum.
Simply put--NO.
Ridiculous assumption.
But the "uniters" will keep pushing that narrative. Can you feel the love?
I read that, considered the source, and immediately dismissed it as the ravings of a lunatic.
Here is one of the white supremacists outside the capitol and again inside the capitol bldg. So no white supremacists did you say. Of course, there are many more photos with gallows, guys wearing 6MWE shirts. If they're not white supremacists they are just your everyday racist.
Jesus H Christ, I get so tired of people claiming I stated something I didn't.
Where did I say there were no white supremacists?
Kind of hard to respect someone who deliberately posts falsehoods about what I post.
It also makes me question if you even fucking bothered to read exactly WTF I DID post.
No need to reply, unless you just want the last word.
Let's see what else you can say I stated that I didn't.
Your words. Why would I care if you had any respect for me, too funny. To be clear I don't care at all.
Go back to playing word games.
I will call you out every single time you misrepresent what I write or outright lie about what I write.
Best get used to it if you are going to continue doing it.
BTW, your assertion that they are white supremacists because they are Trump supporters is just freaking hilarious.
You have nothing to say about the white supremacists that were at the Capitol. Keep on deflecting.
Maybe it will get you honest.
No deflecting, just calling out lies.
Wait WHAT?
Over multiple comments, you've decried 'deliberately posts falsehoods' about what a member's posts yet YOU just did so. Here is what Kavika stated:
READ it.
It makes NO claim that they are 'white supremacists because they are Trump supporters'.
It's predicated on their belief that the election was stolen.
Nuance isn't your strong point.
THIS is what he wrote.
My answer only can make sense when you know what the fuck was asked.
Whether you think so or not is irrelevant to me.
They were probably white supremacists before they became Trump supporters. That chicken or egg aspect is pretty irrelevant now though.
CONTEXT!
If you read his entire post, I have every confidence that you would be able to tell clearly that was not the case he was making.
I maintain now, and always will, that being a Trump supporter didn't make anyone a white supremacist, and that there are millions of Americans who voted for Trump who are not white supremacists.
It is just a nasty, dirty, infantile tactic of lumping all Trump supporters with white supremacists, which I will continue to call people out on.
You would know what context was had you finished reading his post, or where I quoted his words to you.
He asked and answered his own question.
And I called him out on it.
Sorry if you don't like it, but then again, you don't have to like it.
Feel free to take the last word now, I know how important it is to you.
Honest is a bridge too far for you.
Calling out yourself, how cool is that.
Sure, shoot the messenger for accurately quoting you and calling you out.
Man, that is not a lie
I did. Next?
Your bravery is overwhelming. /s
Vic, Donald Trump takes no responsibility for the trouble he causes. And, now I am really, really, giving up hope on those who write supportively about this delusional man!
Why do you think Donald Trump is NOT delusional? Trump supporters, all grown adults, know damn well that life is managed by facts and rules, and that whim can only hold up so far and long.
I'm more interested in Joe Biden acting like a man.
That's never been a problem for President Elect Joe Biden.
Now the current 'president' on the other hand . . . . .
There you go! Humanity over so called 'manliness'
Well, maybe you should define what the characteristics of a man are from your perspective. Please.
You know, qualities traditionally associated with men, such as courage, strength, (and for the ladies sexual potency) and fortitude.
Something I've yet to see from the likes of Joe Biden.
[DELETED]
I agree with that. Maybe that's why so many that I admire happen to be women.
Maybe it's because women don't have to, while it is a requirement for manhood.
That's a rather outdated attitude. Someone's "manliness" is irrelevant. I'm more concerned with how well they can do their job rather than how well they can hose down everything with testosterone.
Just look at what donald's 'bravado' has wrought us.
Sorry r.t.b.., that reply was meant for Vic 9.1 & 9.1.5.
The only way Trump can lay claim to be a man is his nads. Otherwise, there is no other way that he can be considered to be a man. Even his Nazi spy and Mafia follower Father had more guts than Donny has.
Your comments are getting more nonsensical as the hours and days proceed. Are pathological liars "manly" Vic? How about crooks? Cheats? Malignant narcissists? Sexual assaulters ?
Okay, so courage, strength, and fortitude are what Trump supporters imply is on display in the lies, delusions, and weasel words of Donald J. Trump. Got it. Carry on, Vic!
I suppose you think Trump is a real leader.
The America First Movement proved it.
Thanks to Trump's leadership , his party is out of the white house and the minority in the House and Senate. He is also largely responsible for about 1 in 3 Republicans being a ridiculous conspiracy nut .
"The America First Movement proved it."
Sounds like a Bowel Movement - A Messy Liquid Diarrhea Movement
Using your own logic, does that mean that you think Trump got elected because of the failures of Democratic leadership?
And the GOP took the House in 2016--again, a failure of Democratic leadership?
And the Senate also--again, a failure of Democratic leadership?
I believe all three of those statements and I am far from being a Republican. It is time for more from all sides of our political arenas. It is time to start seeing what we all have in common instead of what we have that is different.
Too bad his actions demonstrated otherwise, as is consequently demonstrated by his election loss.
I'm sorry, this kumbaya business will have to wait until Trump is in the rear view mirror getting smaller by the second.
Trump got elected because his lies and his "white grievance" aspect appealed to enough people, and they thought he "makes liberals cry".
If I voted for Trump knowing he was a piece of shit human being, as many people did, I'd have a hard time looking at myself in the shaving mirror every morning.
I'm sorry, but your opinion means very little to me. If you do not agree with what I said, fine, but I have the right to think & hope people like Trump and apparently you will learn there are moderates on both sides out there that wish your types will just shut the fuck up and let the adults run the government.
You compare me to Donald Trump and you think you are the adult ? LOL.
I am so sick of a lot of the shit I have seen on this site over the past four years from "moderates". If the moderates and independents had been properly engaged in 2016 and realized what Trump was, this tragic-comedy of 2016 -2020 woudln't have happened.
I am certainly thinking more clearly than you are. You only see through your hatred & that makes your sight blurry.
I did my job in 2016 and 2020. I voted. Being loud & obnoxious does nothing but turn moderates off & that is what people like you do DAILY.
Veronica, in 2011 Donald Trump wanted to run for president in 2012, but he didnt have a political base. He tried to create a political base by reviving the racist birther theory that had been very popular among conservatives in 2009-2010. So he lied about the sitting president for months and built up a racist following that hated Obama. Unfortunately for Trump Obama called his bluff and produced his long form birth certificate and Trump slunk away in shame. A few years later he was ready to try for the presidency again. Once again he based his political popularity on white grievance, and this time it caught on ands eventually he won the presidency.
Problem is, Trump was still the opportunistic race baiting scumbag he proved himself to be in 2011. In and of itself, his birther escapades should have disqualified him to run for high office, the same way a klan leader or neo Nazi would have been disqualified. But a lot of people who felt like they were losing the America they grew up with , aka run by whites, and he won. The rest, as they say, is history.
Of course , quite a few of the ups and downs of Trump's era do not have anything to do with race per se, but it has always been the base of the foundation.
Too many independents voted for Trump in 2016, which , given his background, character, and birtherism, was indefensible.
I dont hate Donald Trump, but I sure as hell am never going to make excuses for him either.
Douglas Brinkley, a professor of history and the author of many best selling books on US history including The American Heritage History Of The United States said in a television interview this afternoon that Trump is EASILY the worst president America has ever had.
It isnt possible to be too condemning of this man. But it is possible to be too little.
You do not have to tell me anything about Donald Trump, he has been fleecing my state for YEARS. You can tell me nothing that I do not already know and your assumption that you can & your tone in your reply is very insulting.
I am not an independent, I am not a Democrat, I am not a Republican. I am a free thinking person that does research on the candidates ON MY OWN (with no help from bull horns) and vote for the candidate that best fits my thoughts and life. If that is not good enough for you - tough shit.
Most people do not need YOU to tell them what they should do & what they need to know about Trump,
Your words on Newstalkers make that very hard to believe. And frankly I don't give a shit whether you hate him or not, but your words on this site are definitely ruled by hatred of something or someone.
I'm not going to argue with you any more than we already have. I'll just say that without people opposing Trump , every day, he would be president for four more years.
Opposing, shouting and demeaning others are very different things. I opposed him in MY way, just because it wasn't your way doesn't it make it less.
We wouldn't be having this discussion at all if you had not belittled my thoughts on what needs to be done to heal this country. You are no better then gun toting far rights, because you will not listen to ANYONE that does not agree with you 100%. There are plenty of people here in the middle & on the left that have told you that before.
When Trump is GONE and in the dustbin of history, that will be the time to say, if it is true, that the left is just as bad as the right.
NOW is not the time.
If everyone in "the resistance" had taken the position that we all have to get along and the anti-Trumpers are just as bad as the Trumpers, he would have been re-elected. Thank God that did not happen during this election year to the extent that some "moderates" would have liked.
And who made you the decider of things. Your self-importance is astounding.
And what is this "the resistance" you are speaking of? Are you in a Star Wars movie or are you just overly dramatic? It comes to voters. And they voted.
Don't believe in your god so I owe him no thanks.
Trump lost because people resisted his idiocy for four years and exposed him, not because people said lets all get along.
We'll get along when he's gone.
The WORST president in American history (245 years), and you are complaining because people opposed him every day.
I , and the others here on NT like me, are just a few of the millions that did. You should thank us.
Reading these posts with some amusement.
Aren't you glad this is true?
I will thank you for nothing. You go about causing problems where there are none just like you did with me today. Get over yourself, you are not that powerful & if you think your shouting and belly aching for the last four years changed anyone's mind about who they were going to vote for in 2020 you are also delusional. Just as MAGAs, Vics & Greg's loud support of Trump did nothing to change anyone's mind.
Have a high opinion of yourself don't you - YOU saved the US from Trump. What bullshit - mostly you turn people OFF.
I am glad I have been a source of amusement.
We do not usually agree on much, but you seldom speak to me as if I am a moron and have to be told who to vote for.
I hope you don't think I meant to insult you, that was certainly not my intention. Perhaps I could have worded that a little better.
I am much more amused by his posts and his replies to your coherent posts.
Such extremism just can not possibly be healthy for anyone.
I especially agree with your post 10.1.20.
People decide who to vote for all on their own, and for their own reasons. I try not to criticize that decision because I don't usually know why they voted as they did. Besides, why criticize that which can't be changed?
It is why we have elections--everyone gets a say. I am comfortable with that, and that is one reason why I accept Biden as our duly-elected next President.
The non-stop harangues over the last 4+ years over Trump have grown tiresome to many, I suspect. Not saying that much of it wasn't warranted, just that the constant barrage seems to lose significance when shoved down our throats on a daily basis.
Cheers!
I didn't take it as an insult at all. I knew what you were saying.
I agree.
From May 27th to June 1st 14,000 protest-related arrests were made in 48 US cities.
Where did you get your 300 # Vic?
From the arrests made involving Wednesday's riot. BTW one of them was the son of a prominent NY Judge:
FILE - In this Jan. 6, 2021 file photo, supporters of President Donald Trump, including Aaron Mostofsky, right, who is identified in his arrest warrant, walk down the stairs outside the Senate Chamber in the U.S. Capitol, in Washington. Federal agents arrested Mostofsky, the son of a New York judge, on charges that he was among the protestors who stormed the U.S. Capitol, the FBI said on Tuesday, Jan. 12. (AP Photo/Manuel Balce Ceneta, File)
From May 27th to June 1st 14,000 protest-related arrests were made in 48 US cities.
How many were prosecuted?
SOURCE? Link? Proof? Anything other than speculation and innuendo?
Save your goal post moving for someone who is stupid enough to take the bait.
So again, you devolve to silence after being challenged with facts.
You make false allegations against Biden yet can't support your own statements.
Perhaps some self reflection is in order before you post future pontifications.
Vic,
The first step on the road to recovery is admitting you have a problem. The American people have a problem, and both right and left wings are complicit in the perpetuation of this problem. What is the problem that we as a country have? We are devolving, dividing into two nations not separated by physical borders but ideologically drawn and, more often than not, falsely defined and speciously laid out fraudulent and illogical reasoning. This reasoning is followed until we reach a point were we hopefully recognize the reasoning is fraudulent, or something happens to make all of us sit back and re-examine the basis of our beliefs
The most recent manifestation of these false beliefs happened last Wednesday in Washington D.C. at the Capitol building. I would hope that the storming of the Capitol building by a mob of Trump supporters for the sole and fraudulent purpose of changing the results of a free and fair election would make every citizen stop and carefully examine their own motivators, question the foundations of their beliefs, and look deeply into their souls to determine if they were doing right by their fellow country members. These people, these citizens who carried out the heinous action against the seat of democracy, were misguided on several levels. They received verifiably false information from the President himself, from their elected officials in the House of Representatives and Senate, from their elected officials at the state and local level, from numerous and varied social media sites... the list goes on and on. This use of misinformation wasn't just a recent occurrence, either. It has been recognized as a tool for developing radicalism for decades, centuries, even. The only thing different today is there exist many more portals to receive information through. Literally millions and millions of people carry their news portals right with them, alert for the next "buzz" of info to feed their addiction, to help legitimize the way they feel. I know. I have my own little dopamine injector in my pocket.
It was once said that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not there own facts. The president altered this and made up his own facts. He has done this since well before he was in office until this latest craven act of sedition. This was not new for him, and the presidency just gave him a larger megaphone through which to lie. He has lied everyday, multiple times. This is what happens when we let a madman lead our country. He was part and parcel of the lies, the leader of the descent into madness that culminated (hopefully!) at the storming of the Capitol. With any luck, this largest of the lying figureheads downfall will start the people of this country to thinking, to realize that we have much more in common with each other as human beings than divides us along false lines as political partisanship now does.
Already, though, the partisans are descending back into their lies and disinformation, trying to bend people's perception of reality to make them "Right." To give them "traction" over the way that their followers think. This happens on all sides. Everyone wants to hear that their beliefs are true. Thing is, some of them are and some of them are not. It sucks that we can't all slip into the quantum reality were we are always right, but we cannot.
In the past decade, our trust in the mainstream media has been shaken, not necessarily by mistakes on their own part, but by demagogues who continuously harp and rail against it. Some of the MSM has even departed from the presentation of factual and verifiable information towards opinion. It is this trend towards the presentation of opinion as fact, as well as the presentation of false information as fact, that must be halted and reversed. There are still quite a few news resources that present factual, verifiable and actionable news. These are the ones who we should be supporting by watching and reading. The rest are just awful representations of the "other guy". (Hint: If several ratings of one's news site do not list them as being a highly factual news site, then it probably would be better to steer away from them, or at least check their content against other news sites."
So, in answer to your question How many voters voted for Joe Biden thinking a Biden victory would be a return to normalcy?, I can confidently say I don't have the foggiest idea. I know that I did not think a return to normalcy would happen, because I don't have a definition for normal. If by normal you mean to say polite disagreement, I think that is a good way off, if it is even achievable with the disinformation distribution system that is in place now. Definitely getting rid of Donald Trump will help move us in the right direction.
Love your neighbor. Love yourself. Respect that others have different viewpoints that come largely from experiential causes. But, for god's sake, stop peddling the bullshit.
Just out of curiosity, Vic, exactly what do YOU think is needed for "healing."
That starts with the man who promised to do it. Joe Biden can show some leadership by calling off the House impeachers, which would make good on his vow that this is a “time to heal.”
It may also help for him to stop stirring up racial division.
So let the 'president' get away with it? Him calling for his mob to over run the Capitol?
The only one who has been stirring up 'racial division' is your 'president'
Get away with what?
Him calling for his mob to over run the Capitol?
What did he say?
The only one who has been stirring up 'racial division' is your 'president'
Biden is the race baiter
No, President Elect Joe Biden is not a race baiter.
Another [deleted] thinks the 'president' should be able to get away with his inciting a mob to over run the Capitol. He thinks they should make a deal with the 'president' so that he can get away with all his crimes during his 'presidency' and his kids, and [deleted] also thinks the SDNY should just let him get away with everything also, after 1/20/21. RIDICULOUS.
Nope. Not gonna happen.
I already answered those questions in one of your other seeds Vic. Remember when you defied anyone to tell you where Trump incited the rabble?
Of course you bailed on addressing it. Here is my comment in part:
So it's pretty clear that you think that you can just rinse and repeat the same bullshit, day after day, ad nauseam. Why ask questions that you've already received the answers for Vic? Why ask questions whose answers you have NO intention of acknowledging?
That fails as an incitement. I'm glad to hear that you, like Nancy Pelosi or the New York Times, couldn't quote anything in the speech that would incite a crowd. It wasn't the speech or the tweet. The violent trouble makers came to DC intending to start trouble. Didn't the FBI tell us that?
So it's pretty clear that you think that you can just rinse and repeat the same bullshit
No more personal attacks. Stick to the topic.
Calling the impeachment count "incitement" works to Trump's favor, since there is no way his statements satisfy the legal standard of incitement. The more Trump can turn this into a debate on the law of incitement, the better off he will be. Impeachment is a political act, using criminal accusations blurs that line and allows Trump to turn this into a debate over the legal standard, where his defense is strongest.
It's all to his favor. It will go down in history as political malfeasance.
Right now there are two questions that will soon be answered. The first rests with Mitch McConnell. Does he want to take this opportunity to purge the GOP of Donald Trump? He may have blamed Trump for the loss of those two GA Senate seats. Fewer Republicans came out to vote in that election.
The second is for Trump. Does he want to continue in politics? Look at the price the ruling far left has extracted?
I think this is the last we see of Donald Trump.
Sean on Jan 6th there was a time certain when the Senate and House would vote to complete the certification of the electoral vote. Just a couple hours before that time certain, the president of the United States instructed a large crowd of his supporters to go to the location where that vote would take place and "fight like hell" to prevent the outcome of that congressional vote. And he told them that they would not win on that day by displaying "weakness".
Trump told them where to go (the location), to fight like hell, and to not show weakness.
Do you seriously believe that Trump was merely telling them to go to the Capitol grounds and peacefully protest?
How would a peaceful protest prevent the certification vote and result ?
You're out of gas Sean.
Wrong again and as usual no quote from the speech.
Here it is:
"And after this, we're going to walk down there, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down ... to the Capitol and we are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women," Trump told the crowd. "And we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong."
That speech is no more or no less than the typical protest calls for - to cheer those you support and protest that which you object to.
Admit it - you are afraid he may run again and what's worse - those on the left want to suppress dissent!
You have to ignore EVERYTHING that he said about 'Mike' in the speech to believe that.
That's an obtuse statement Vic.
Is it your posit that there is nothing that Trump could say that would have tamped down those that HE invited to DC?
Seriously Vic, Trump INVITED his minions to DC to do EXACTLY what they did. The idea that Trump wasn't briefed on the FBI report is laughable.
For the first time, I agree wholeheartedly with Liz Cheney:
AFTER Trump posted his tweet about VP Pence, his minions began to chant, "Where's Mike Pence", "Find Pence", "Hang Pence". PLEASE don't even try to pretend that Trump was unaware that was happening. Trump not only didn't take down that tweet, he FAILED to take ANY action to protect HIS loyal VP for HOURS while the Capitol was under siege by HIS voters.
That wasn't a personal attack Vic. It was an accurate observation.
Vic there was no legitimate purpose in any Trump supporter being at the Capitol Building on that day. Congress was there to vote to complete the election process, not to debate whether or not the election had been "stolen". All 50 states had already completed the election process and certified the election results. The Jan 6th session was a formality.
Trump did not summon 40,000 people to Washington and direct them to the Capitol Building merely to witness a formality.
I'm tired of arguing with [removed] you, but since you wont stop, we dont stop either.
Rep. Hakeem Jeffries , addressing the impeachment hearing, a few moments ago - " DONALD TRUMP IS A LIVING, BREATHING, IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE"
Another lie - he turned tail and fled to a secret location/bunker in the White House
So if Biden or Schumer or Democrat Senators told people to "fight like hell" they could be guilty of trying to incite a riot.
Actually HERE it is:
John got it RIGHT!
Really, so you have no respect for the position. You would rather see the President in danger. It isn't his decision.
Yes, if said to a mob who proceeded to riot!
It would depend on the circumstances.
Oh and please do NOT gloss over the FACT that Trump implied that if Mike Pence didn't 'come through for us', Pence would have been violating his oath of office.
Take about projection.
He lied, as usual, Whatever danger this 'president' might have been in, was brought on by him . . . spare me your usual nonsense dear.
I have no respect for this 'president' or his supporters.
So Vic, how do you think you'd be reacting if this was all reversed? Where Biden lost the election by 7 million popular votes and 350,000 in the swing States giving Trump 306 electoral college votes but Biden refused to concede, claimed the election was stolen with zero evidence, tried over 60 lawsuits to overturn the States electoral college, called on Democrats in Congress to decertify the electoral college vote, called the Secretary of State of one of the most pivotal battleground States and demanded they find just enough votes for him to overturn their results and told them if they didn't they could go to jail and then on the day the election results are being certified by congress had a rally near the capital and told the crowd that Trump stole the election and that they should "walk down there, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down ... to the Capitol and we are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, And we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong." after which the crowd did "walk down there" and attacked the capital, broke in, threatened members of congress, called for Mike Pence to be hung, ransacked offices, destroyed property and beat capital police with flag poles?
Just curious if you'd be defending Biden as vociferously as you're defending Trump. Would you really be claiming Biden didn't incite the crowd and was completely blameless? If not, then you prove how partisan and hypocritical your defense of Trump really is.
Hyberbole much. He said it to a crowd. I don't recall him being at the Capitol and saying it to the actual "mob".
Seems Democrats are making a dangerous precedent here for their future speakers.
A response that would be expected.
Are you trying to claim that the "crowd" at his rally near the capital were not made up of the "mob" that later attacked the capital? Seriously?
The only one setting precedent was dishonest Donald. Hopefully no future politician ever gives such a shameless speech which obviously incited the crowd to violence again regardless of party.
So if Schumer told everyone to "fight like hell" and then the same day there was arson, looting, and rioting should Schumer be held responsible for the "mob".
Is this President Schumer working his supporters into a frenzy regarding a 'Trumped up' (pun intended) charge of election fraud?
What a PotUS says is far more potent than any other individual politician.
There was no mob during his speech. I am sure you would like it that way though.
so I guess your answer is no.
There was a local guy here that was at the speech and he said he left the actual speech early and when he got to the Capitol, the majority of the barn stormers were already at the scene and they never even were at the speech. I guess they were reserving the best seats.
So those who attacked the capital weren't at his rally? Really?
Oh, well if some anonymous "local guy" said it I guess that makes it super true... /s
Is that really your defense? Really? Trump shouldn't be held responsible because even though he made inflammatory comments calling the election stolen multiple times, told them to "take back their country" and told them they had to "show strength" and called for the crowd to march down to the capital but a "local guy", who himself apparently did go to the capital as Trump told him to, said the crowd at the Capital "were never at the speech"? Really?
So you can admit that he lied when he said he would be there with them. Even trmp knew the SS wouldn't let him march with that crowd...tho I wish they had. I would like to see DJT smash a window and assault a cop then maybe people like you could see the man behind the curtain
I know you can understand timelines. There was no mob during his speech.
I always thought your vocabulary was better than "seriously" or "really".
It isn't a defense. Just sharing what a man who was at the Capitol shared on the local radio station. And read it again. He just left the speech early. NOT because that is where Trump told him to go. He stated that there was a large crowd already at the Capitol that he later saw basically lead the charge to the House.
This works just like the MSM/liberal mantra "according to people with knowledge speaking on condition of anonymity" bullshit.
Just sharing one man's experience. And your drama queen trophy for this "made inflammatory comments" is in the mail......................
It would behoove you to read what you block quoted more slowly.
Here is a truncated version:
Members of the CROWD at the rally became the MOD at the Capitol.
Sunshine, did 40,000 people travel from their home states to Washington DC to make a mere "protest"? In the crowd were white supremacists, proud boys, boogaloo boys, neo nazis, oath keepers, and last but not least, innumerable Q Anon nuts.
Are you seriously trying to suggest to us that all those groups came to Washington DC on January 6th in order to peacefuly protest the election results? It is absurd on its face.
Trump was well aware who was in that crowd.
Spread your bs elsewhere.
You may want to read that again. Members "became" the mob thus, there was no mob at the capitol during the speech but rather later............although my comment above seems to not FULLY agree with that, it is quite plausible.
Just answer the question.
It may sink in.
Not necessarily. It has already been reported that the "plan" was in the works weeks prior to the event.
Tell him that there is video that proves that to be false.
No. You don't know what he saw/experienced. Do you have any shots to the contrary AT the Capitol that shows it was a ghost town while the speech was being delivered and the majori9ty came from the speech? If not, please do trot on won't you? Thanks so much.
Does YOUR vocabulary distinguish between 'crowd' and 'mod'?
You just block quoted it and STILL don't get it.
The term CROWD was used for the people at the speech and the term MOB was used for the people that attacked the Capitol.
NO thinking person would deny that the MOB had at some point been part of the CROWD.
WHO is claiming that the MOB was at the Capitol DURING the speech?
Again, time lapse video PROVES that to be FALSE.
The MOB did not arrive until AFTER the speech and there is OVERWHELMING evidence that some of those at the speech BECAME a MOB.
No, but it does between 'crowd' and 'mob".
so you agree that trump needs to be impeached
You just told me didn't you?
I know what I saw on the video from C-Span and Global News. There was a parameter around the Capitol at which a small group of people were along the side barricades. NO protest, NADA.
After the speech, the MOB came and pushed through the barricades at the FRONT of the Capitol.
Go look at the video for yourself.
Isn't that what I asked you? So why the 'No'?
By what reasoning would you conclude that? If Schumer were PotUS (like Trump) and Schumer worked his supporters into a frenzy regarding a 'Trumped up' (pun intended) charge of election fraud then Schumer would be complicit in the resulting bad behavior of his sycophantic supporters.
The situations need to be somewhat equivalent.
As I noted: what a PotUS says is far more potent than any other individual politician.
Don't care if he is or isn't. Especially if they are going to prevent him from ever running again for anything. All it is is another "F" on his democrat generated report card. And that's all the red meat that the dems need. Their "we got him this time" dream come true. He will be leaving office anyway at 12:20 pm on January 20th so what else is this dog and pony show for?
wow...some anger issues there wanting a cop assaulted....geez get a grip.
Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say murder.
Even if he did do those things you would find a way to excuse it. I'm not the one with the anger issues.
Sure hope you never make a typo
Wouldn't have been quite so bad had it only been once. Three times at least and one has to wonder............JMO
Your fingers don't make typos? I am constantly writing "teh" instead of "the"
d and b are fairly close on the keyboard
"Spread your bs elsewhere."
Well Parler and Facebook and Twitter are no longer options . . . so what's a gal to do?
" So you can admit that he lied when he said he would be there with them. Even trmp knew the SS wouldn't let him march with that crowd...tho I wish they had. I would like to see DJT smash a window and assault a cop then maybe people like you could see the man behind the curtain"
We knew it wouldn't happen when tRump said 'he would WALK with them' - when does he walk his big fat ass ANYWHERE?
Oh THAT GUY! 'Nuff said!
There you go again: Presumptuously taking liberals for fools. Lucy bring your football:
Joe Biden can be held to his word, but he won't become something you can quote on odd-even political days!
Donald Trump is politically poison. The bringer of political "Armageddon." Now professionally, if poison is all you have for the public to consume. It's politically pathetic. And, the other republicans are going to "eat your Teacher" when school resumes.
John, they want to argue Donald Trump words in isolation; in a vacuum. As though nuance is not the thing. However that belies the fact that if the FBI knew enough to warn Capitol police about this set of "protestors" ahead of time - Donald was certainly warned about the intent of some in the group before he was scheduled to have them on White House grounds (and he did it anyway).
But let them 'sanitize' Donald. We just need some "real men and women" in the odd dozen of them to stop being losers and stand up for principle for once! Donald Trump can't tell the truth, because it simply ain't in him.
Let's try to reconstitute that gif (with a different one of the same):
@ 16.2.63
Non sequitur and emotional.
If any PotUS encouraged his supporters to protest at the Capitol and things got out of hand, would you not hold that PotUS responsible given the power and influence that office wields?
If Obama had lost his reelection and refused to concede, claimed that it was all rigged and continued to influence his supporters with lies (remember, these lies are coming from the PotUS) and they subsequently stormed the Capitol (or equivalent) because they totally bought his bullshit, would you be okay with that?
That was no protest. They were tRump's mob, led on by him. What did these morons expect once they 'stormed the Capitol'?
Trump clearly encouraged his supporters to protest the 'massive election fraud' by going to the Capitol. What is wrong is that THERE WAS NO MASSIVE ELECTION FRAUD. What is wrong is that this is a national con perpetrated by Trump. He lied about our election and got his supporters worked into a frenzy thinking their votes were nullified by fraud. They want him to be PotUS because he (in their minds) does what they want. This affects them personally and they take the 'stolen election' personally. These people actually believe that the election was stolen because the PotUS (and the candidate they support) told them so ... repeatedly ... confidently.
You understand that? Trump lied. Trump worked his supporters up telling them that their candidate won the election and that it was stolen from them and that the final act of this theft is taking place at the Capitol.
This is not difficult to understand if one is looking at reality objectively. If Trump had not lied to his supporters and deemed those properly, legally and ethically executing the constitutional processes of the USA election to be 'the opposition', this event would have not taken place.
The poster is demanding other members to meet a standard that the poster doesn't meet.
Note the multiple unanswered question to the poster in this thread.
I think things would be a lot worse than they are now. They would never have put up with that and there probably would have been bloodshed.
You do realize you are banging your head against a figurative wall, don't you?
I noticed Dennis didn't answer your question about what if Obama had done what trmp did. All of them know that trmp lied and got his base stirred up. But if they even admit that to themselves, then they will realize they've been had and the humiliation and shame is just too much to bear
Yes. I know that I might as well be trying to talk reason to a rock. But my comment is for more than one person.
Well, I like your words and you do provide another perspective different than my own.. Keep up the good work
Oh H yeah. It's partisanship on 'roids.' Trump wouldn't have it any other way!
Joe Biden can show some leadership by calling off the House impeachers...
Oh... I see, it is up to Joe Biden and the Democrats to be contrite... FOR WHAT!!!!! They didn't incite a riot resulting in the desecration of our national capital and the death of several people.
But for the Republicans sycophants, it's time to let bygones be bygones... and for Trump... well... what did he do... it is beyond words.
I gotta tell you, Vic... Recognizing when your side is at fault and owning up to it would help to establish some credibility...
But you seem stalwartly committed to the sophomoric "I know you are but what am I" strategy.
Context Matters.
Seems to be a common issue. Just acknowledging how wrong Trump and his political defenders (e.g. congresspersons and senators like Cruz) and agents (e.g. Giuliani) have been would seem like the sensible thing to do.
Sometimes 'wrong' is obvious and indefensible. Better to accept the obvious and hold credibility to defend the party itself down the road.
More to the point, Donald Trump has been speaking evil of the legal election since it occurred! There is CONTINUITY of consciousness involved here. Courts can ferret it out, logically.
Sounds like you are suggesting Trump's rhetoric has been co-opted. Now who's fault is that?
This is the "enabler" defense: There is no video of Donald entering the Capitol in front of insurrectionists. There is no video of Donald waving a rock or stick around passionately.
So there. Donald Trump knew the "getting wild" that he was heading towards when the day came. Surely FBI Christoper Wray informed the president.
This political combat is infinity. That is not good for the children of men.
Donald's flagrant cries of denial are like an intoxicating bouquet confusing the minds of the supporters. They're driven 'mad.'
It is amazing watching you deny the cold hard reality that Trump engaged in a massive con job where he, as the sitting PotUS, lied to the entire nation by claiming he legitimately won the election.
Good grief man are you actually trying to defend Trump by arguing he did not know he was lying??
Also, learn how to use the quote tool. Simply put your cursor over the quoted paragraph and press the ” button on the editor toolbar.
That would mean Trump's judgment is impaired. He should have been taken out by the 25th. See I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was sane. You do not.
Are you not aware of the fact that Trump's modus operandi is lying and cheating? Do you know nothing about Trump in business?
Why do you believe Trump is so out of it that he actually believed that he won this election? Based on what (other than your pure speculation)?
Where?
Why are you assigning political parties to members?
Secondly, your whataboutism is noted.
Can I ask why you think that is relevant?
I do not see how your comment applies to mine in any way. That is not even a quote from me. Did you mean to reply to someone else?
Oh and BTW Suz, you need to post a link to your block quote per the CoC.
That isn't responsive dennis.
Are you positing that a member's political party controls with whether a member demands answers while failing to provide answers themselves?
Context MATTERS dennis.
After MONTHS of falsehoods being refuted by DOCUMENTED FACTS, if one still claims to believe the falsehoods, it is perfectly cogent to question their judgement and/or whether they are LYING about their belief.
Oh and BTFW, WHEN did Trump state that he 'ended up being incorrect'?
I already did. MAY I have an answer?
Yes, Dennis, that is the meaning of impaired judgment. If, as you hypothesize, Trump actually believes that he had won this election when there has been no evidence that shows any way for him to legitimately win then his judgment is impaired.
You changed the scenario. Imagine that.
I did not write that simply being wrong on something means that someone's judgment is impaired. Intellectual dishonesty.
I wrote specifically about this election and the absurd declaration by Trump that he won. Anyone who truly believes that they won an election when the numbers are not even close has impaired judgment. Anyone who continues to believe this after recounts and litigation and the full constitutional process taking place has impaired judgment.
It is remarkable that you do not comprehend this.
Never. And if Trump still truly believes he won (as per Dennis' hypothesis) then how can Dennis, et. al. not recognize that Trump's judgment is impaired?
Well that's were that context thingy comes in again, isn't it?
5 years of DOCUMENTED FACTS and still the claim that Trump's judgement is 'perfect'.
So either THEIR judgement is flawed or they are pretending to believe that to bolster their ideology.
Amazing how some people try to defend the indefensible. I would have expected nobody to be still trying to defend Trump's post-election behavior. That episode alone was (is) so over-the-top, what kind of mindset is required to defend that?
Trump can delude himself to think anything he wants. Facts are facts. Accountability is accountability.
Remember accountability? That thing you will be harking on starting January 20, 2021?
Spin is Spin. Damage control is damage control. Teammembers are well, teammembers.
And if this conservative really gave a shit about Donald Trump's stinkin-thinkin in and of itself- this conservative wouldn't be here trying to gaslight proper thinking on the subject. Ridiculous naysayers caught in a web of their own making!
Specious logic aside. Actually,—yes—that specious logic! Donald Trump can believe he is a natural blond if it suits him, but what says nothing of interest to his hair roots.
No more smoke and mirrors please. Get serious.
Because it's willful delusion. The supporters are deep "in" on it, too. It is the same thing as them looking past liberals and secularists to proclaim "the American People" as wholly an enterprise they themselves represent. We are outside their set parameters for positive stream of consciousness.
The intent is clear: Tear down liberals, secularists, and "Others" through maligning day in and day out. Without ever speaking about themselves in a substantive, true, proper, way.
Thus, like Taqiyya, in Islam, lying to infidels to get one's way with the enemy, these people willfully speak "down" to us to our faces day in and day out in hopes that we will buy it or just waste time on/with the deceptions.
Point?
Oh and THEN he tried to CHANGE the election results ILLEGALLY.
I didn't deflect to 'other MONTHS' dennis. I cited the MONTHS that Trump was presented with DOCUMENTED FACTS about the results of the election and petulantly refused to accept those FACTS.
Hell they counted Georgia 3 TIMES and Trump STILL denied that he lost. Go listen to the phone call he had with the SoS. Trump repeats the same old tired bullshit that had been debunked WEEKS before.
Bullshit. This is about Trump's narcissism.
Nope. Trump just admitted that his attempt to usurp the Constitution failed.
Trump's minions are 'decoding' his statements as we speak. Trump has been telling them that black is white and up is down for so long they KNOW that all they need to do is figure out what he 'really' means.
No spinning needed dennis. You've had 5 years to evaluate Trump's judgement yet still swill the kool aid.
WTF are you blathering about dennis?
So just whataboutism. Got ya.
Did you not have 5 years dennis? Was it more or less?
I need not ask if you still swill the kool aid, I will let your own comments answer that.
I suggest you start with Trump's phone call to the SoS of Georgia and review their election law. When you're done with that, get back to me...
Yet he DIDN'T do it just as any candidate has, DID he dennis?
Really? They didn't count the votes 3 times in Georgia?
Trump didn't STILL refuse to accept Georgia's certification?
Do tell?
I can see what Dulay wrote:
Your almost certain disagreement does not mean that Dulay did not answer you.
Fact, not speculation.
Says who?
Deflection and personal comments seem to be yours.
So instead of listening to the phone call yourself and coming to your own conclusions, you want me to hold your hand through the process? Adult!
Please proceed.
Take that up with Dulay. I simply pointed you to where Dulay answered your question.
My view on this is that the illegality of the SoS call must be determined by litigation. Trump could be found to be conspiring to commit election fraud. If I had made the claim I would have worded it as 'potentially illegal' because the details would need to be adjudicated. At the very least, the call was slimy as was the balance of his post election con job.
If you want to know Dulay's thoughts on the matter then ask Dulay.
And you can produce proper facts and figures! How about that?! Produce what Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani could not in 59 court filing thereabouts! Please proceed. . . . Misplaced passion, loud-talking, and acting out does not a proper case make or distribute!
But, we can all see what is being perpetrated here. Some conservatives know the courts "won't help them" because they have nothing court-worthy to deliver! This is an age old play at Might Makes Right.
Better to 'play' at Rule of Law!
Dulay then is now free to rebut anything you write while you hide your eyes. Good strategy.
Now you are just 'shouting' into the void.' Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani and the Insurrectionists (on an "information operation" at the Capitol) are playing each other. I hope this nation's proper authorities throw the 'book' at them.
We're done here. I am done with this rhetoric.
NOTE: Do you know how to you the " " format feature at the top left of "Paragraph" in the Reply to window. I didn't even recognize my own words because you blended them all into your own! Well, it took a more than needed moment to collect your meaning.
Yeah, he does. I explained it to him earlier in this very thread:
Looks like he wants his comments to be unintelligible and against site policy.
I remember your comment to him about it. (Smile.)
I did answer your question dennis. You refused to listen to the phone call or spend the time it takes to do your own due diligence.
NO ONE is here to hand feed you information. Those of us that do actually review documents, listen to audio or watch video have NO obligation to create 'crib notes' based on the knowledge that we have garnered. Demanding that we do so is juvenile.
Also, I asked you multiple questions, NONE of which YOU answered. Your demand for answers from others while failing to answer questions yourself is hypocritical.
Why pretend you ever did dennis?
As is true for far too many here, member's comments are merely a vehicle for posting canned ideological replies that don't further the conversation and rarely even acknowledge the content or context of what you are replying to.
there won't be any unity or healing until trumpsters complete a political 12-step program about the election and insurrection. no accountability = no unity. stand up and step up, or take a 14th amendment ass kicking and prepare for censures and special elections. your time is running out.
Nothing will happen to half the country, why would you even think that? Peaceful transfer of power and life goes on. The expectation that half of the country should accept Hillary's loss while winning the popular vote happened. Then the biggest peaceful protest in history happened with the "Women's March" wearing pink hats. Right wing voters said "cry more", they mocked the voters who cried when Hillary lost the electoral college, happy to drink " liberal tears". Fox lied, Trump lied, top Republicans lied to their own base. Then when a deadly pandemic hits and mail in voting was accepted as safer especially since our troops safely vote by mail, every conceivable lie was told about voting. Mail in votes proved to be safer with an actual paper trail and after 65 lawsuits (or more) all but one of the frivolous suit went down in flames denied by Trump appointed judges. Why did Republican voters believe all the lies? Why are they so angry? I thought we solve it at the ballot box. Why are they so angry that enough of the extreme right jumped on the anti -American bandwagon and assaulted our own country and attacked law enforcement? Corporations are the ones who are now jumping in to stop what they have allowed by halting corporate donations and shutting down conspiracy media where this has been allowed to run amok. These corporations love Republicans, donate to them in order to get tax cuts and favoritism. When they cut off the spigot of money they know it has gone too far. Liberals did not cancel anything, corporations fearing liability did. No one took all the guns, liberals don't control Fox, and Democrats can believe in God, believe in America, and serve their country in the military. I have more faith in a devout Catholic as President as a healing force.
At least Biden's faith isn't fake
Life goes on?
Well, not for some people:
Cops Line DC Street To Salute Officer Brian Sicknick Murdered In Capitol Riot
I expect to see no healing or unity coming from Biden anytime soon. Just him as directed by his mob base and progressive wing seeking total capitulation and unconditional surrender as if that were unity and healing.
Wow, just stirring around for somebody to provoke. . . slow day?
Yup, exactly what I would expect.
From Trump supporters, insurrectionists, and traitors anyway.
I rest my case:
Oh boy, Sean (I help you steal anything, "Mr. President") Hannity at your service, Sir! Talk about a seasoned "promoters" of anything conservatively rotten, hooked, or crooked: "Better Call Sean"!