Left’s outrage on Pence leading coronavirus response is latest example of religious intolerance

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  donald-j-trump-fan-1  •  4 months ago  •  244 comments

By:   Jim Daly

Left’s outrage on Pence leading coronavirus response is latest example of religious intolerance
It would be good and appropriate for all people of faith to pray for the vice president as he steps into this critical role. He is a good man who loves our country and, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, he deserves our support for this assignment. May we be one country with one voice, praying for containment of this deadly virus, even invoking the words of Jesus Himself who said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.”

It is important to expose and confront the bigotry of the secular humanists against believers and to show that believers have a right to be in the public square and express our beliefs.  This article is right on.  AOC and others on the secular left have baselessly attacked Pence for leading the government response to corona virus.  


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T




Religious  intolerance comes in many forms and manifests in degrees large and small, but the left’s response to President Trump’s appointment of Vice President Mike Pence to lead the nation’s handling of the coronavirus is the latest serving of demagoguery against people of faith.

In announcing Mr.  Pence’s  role, President Trump cited the vice president’s executive experience managing public health in Indiana, where he previously served as governor.

“He’s got a certain talent for this,”  Trump  said.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., a reliable critic of the administration and all things conservative, served up early objection, falsely stating, “Mike Pence literally does not believe in science. It is utterly irresponsible to put him in charge of US coronavirus response as the world sits on the cusp of a pandemic.”

The Democrat congresswoman is just wrong. Of course, Mr. Pence believes in science and, in fact, his belief in science helps to inform his policy positions.

Other critics quickly pounced, blaming Pence for an HIV outbreak in the Hoosier state during his gubernatorial tenure. At the time, there were those who favored a needle exchange program to combat the virus, suggesting such a plan would reduce the spread of infection. Mr. Pence objected, stating, “I don’t believe effective anti-drug policy involves handing out drug paraphernalia.”

To say an objection to handing out needles to drug dealers is anti-science is foolish in the extreme.

But opponents of Mr. Pence’s newly announced role to help combat the coronavirus are even raising objections that predate his time in Indiana’s governor’s mansion. As a congressman in 2011, Vice President Pence voted to cut funding to Planned Parenthood, a move that abortion advocates claim caused abortion clinics in Indiana to close, thus preventing women from receiving HIV screenings.


Such a dubious claim is impossible to verify, especially since Planned Parenthood isn’t the only facility to provide screening services.

ABC’s late-night comedian Jimmy Kimmel also piled on, sarcastically quipping, “Why is Mike Pence in charge? What is his plan to stop the virus? Abstinence?”

Others even criticized Mr. Pence’s call for prayer during the HIV outbreak in Indiana.

At the root of all these scurrilous charges against Vice President Pence is a deep-seated religious intolerance and a sad desire to politicize a very serious situation.

It’s true that throughout his long and honorable career in public service, Mr. Pence has allowed his faith to inform his perspective and shape his actions. What’s interesting, though, is that the same people who criticize him for doing so raise no objections when people on the left do.

Prior to running for the presidency in 2008, then-Senator Barack Obama famously declared:

“Secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So, to say that men and women should not inject their 'personal morality' into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.”

President Obama was widely applauded for correlating faith with public service -- but now that a socially conservative person is in a position of governmental authority, his faith commitments are unallowable.

Do our friends on the left not see the glaring hypocrisy?

President Trump has also been criticized for appointing Mr. Pence to lead up the virus response because the vice president doesn’t have medical credentials. Never mind that Mr. Pence immediately tapped Debbie Birx, a world-renowned expert on infectious disease.

Not only do people of faith and those with deeply held-religious convictions deserve a seat at the table -- but I would argue they’re very often the most qualified and most appropriate people to hold such roles.

That’s because in the history of global pandemics and other health emergencies, it’s very often been people of faith who have sacrificially and competently served in humanitarian relief roles. Like Vice President Pence, their faith commands them to rush in when everyone else is inclined to run out.

It would be good and appropriate for all people of faith to pray for the vice president as he steps into this critical role. He is a good man who loves our country and, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, he deserves our support for this assignment. May we be one country with one voice, praying for containment of this deadly virus, even invoking the words of Jesus Himself who said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.”


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Heartland American
1  seeder  Heartland American    4 months ago

“Secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So, to say that men and women should not inject their 'personal morality' into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.”

President Obama was widely applauded for correlating faith with public service -- but now that a socially conservative person is in a position of governmental authority, his faith commitments are unallowable.

Do our friends on the left not see the glaring hypocrisy?

President Trump has also been criticized for appointing Mr. Pence to lead up the virus response because the vice president doesn’t have medical credentials. Never mind that Mr. Pence immediately tapped Debbie Birx, a world-renowned expert on infectious disease.

Not only do people of faith and those with deeply held-religious convictions deserve a seat at the table -- but I would argue they’re very often the most qualified and most appropriate people to hold such roles.

That’s because in the history of global pandemics and other health emergencies, it’s very often been people of faith who have sacrificially and competently served in humanitarian relief roles. Like Vice President Pence, their faith commands them to rush in when everyone else is inclined to run out.

It would be good and appropriate for all people of faith to pray for the vice president as he steps into this critical role. He is a good man who loves our country and, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, he deserves our support for this assignment.  https://thenewstalkers.com/community/discussion/49627/lefts-outrage-on-pence-leading-coronavirus-response-is-latest-example-of-religious-intolerance

 
 
 
devangelical
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Heartland American @1    4 months ago
It’s true that throughout his long and honorable career in public service, Mr. Pence has allowed his faith to inform his perspective and shape his actions.

... a constituency of 2 that can't vote. some deity, and his son that eventually become yard art over of his socialist ideology.

 
 
 
devangelical
1.2  devangelical  replied to  Heartland American @1    4 months ago

trump just put the albino thumper on the election ejection seat. if the pandemic goes sideways, pence goes under the bus and out the door as the incompetent patsy, and trump gets off the hook with clean hands in the eyes of his legion of brainless sycophants.

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @1.2    4 months ago

That's brilliant.  I wonder who thought of that.  

 
 
 
Dulay
2  Dulay    4 months ago

In the case of Pence, the intolerance is of his incompetence. 

 
 
 
Heartland American
2.1  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @2    4 months ago

To say that the former congressman, governor, and current Vice President is incompetent is simply ridiculous and is a symptom of TDS.  

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
2.1.1  Larry Hampton  replied to  Heartland American @2.1    4 months ago

1244.jpg

“In religion and politics people’s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.”


Mark Twain
 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.2  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @2.1    4 months ago

I LIVE in Indiana Xx. I KNOW what an utter cluster fuck Mike Pence was as Governor of this state. Pence's incompetence started long before he attached his lips onto Trump ass. 

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
2.1.4  Larry Hampton  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.3    4 months ago

You do realize that stupid Instagram links are meaningless and a cop out, right?

 
 
 
Heartland American
2.1.6  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Larry Hampton @2.1.4    4 months ago

No they’re not.  They make very good points and provide useful info on the related topic here.  

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
2.1.7  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Heartland American @2.1    4 months ago

Not to mention further evidence of SLS (Sore Loser Syndrome)!

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.8  Dulay  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.1.7    4 months ago
Not to mention further evidence of SLS (Sore Loser Syndrome)!

How are you so fucking sure this alleged SLS outweighs my personal experience of living under Governor Pence's incompetence? Please be specific. 

 
 
 
Heartland American
2.1.9  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Larry Hampton @2.1.1    4 months ago

So you disagree with President Obama and his saying secularists are wrong quote from the seed repeated in post #1?

 
 
 
Heartland American
2.1.10  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.1.7    4 months ago

Yes, there’s always that. 

 
 
 
Heartland American
2.1.11  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @2.1.8    4 months ago

Most people in your state disagree with you about him.

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.12  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.11    4 months ago
Most people in your state disagree with you about him.

False. 

Spare me your unfounded proclamations. Pence's approval rating in Indiana in spring of 2016 was 40%.

 
 
 
Gordy327
2.1.13  Gordy327  replied to  Dulay @2.1.12    4 months ago
Pence's approval rating in Indiana in spring of 2016 was 40%.

I'll bet his less than stellar record regarding public health matters probably contributed to such a dismal rating. And this is the guy who heading up a task force about something that affects public health? Unbelievable. 

 
 
 
Heartland American
2.1.14  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.1.7    4 months ago

That’s for sure. 

 
 
 
Heartland American
2.1.15  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @2.1.12    4 months ago

He was favored for re election before Trump picked him to be VP instead.  Pence did well along with Trump at the news conference today

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.16  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @2.1.15    4 months ago
He was favored for re election before Trump picked him to be VP instead.

Again, another uninformed proclamation.

 Pence did well along with Trump at the news conference today

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
3  Larry Hampton    4 months ago

800

 
 
 
Heartland American
3.1  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Larry Hampton @3    4 months ago

[deleted]

[Stop using links for political advertising. This is my last warning.]

 
 
 
bbl-1
4  bbl-1    4 months ago

Holy crackers, CH4P, the only 'religious intolerance' rises from the religious.  These folk hate anything that stands in the way of their 'divine intolerance' toward others.

 
 
 
Heartland American
4.1  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  bbl-1 @4    4 months ago

intolerance is the domain of the secular progressive.

 
 
 
Dulay
4.1.1  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @4.1    4 months ago

Labeling and/or creative name-calling of entire political groups, ideological, religious, cultural, sexual identity / orientation, etc. groups (i.e. Rethuglicans, Libtards, etc), is forbidden.

 
 
 
Texan1211
4.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @4.1.1    4 months ago
Labeling and/or creative name-calling of entire political groups, ideological, religious, cultural, sexual identity / orientation, etc. groups (i.e. Rethuglicans, Libtards, etc), is forbidden.

Forbidden?

Bullshit.

 
 
 
Dulay
4.1.3  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.2    4 months ago

It's a direct quote from the CoC. 

jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
4.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @4.1.3    4 months ago

And?

 
 
 
Dulay
4.1.5  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.4    4 months ago

Well for one thing, both YOU and Xx agreed to abide by that code. 

Since my comment is verbatim from that code, it isn't bullshit. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
4.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @4.1.5    4 months ago
Since my comment is verbatim from that code, it isn't bullshit. 

Matter of opinion.

 
 
 
Dulay
4.1.7  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.6    4 months ago
Matter of opinion.

No. It is a matter of documented fact. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
4.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @4.1.7    4 months ago

Okay, I'll take it as documented fact the comment was bullshit.

 
 
 
Dulay
4.1.9  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.8    4 months ago

Obtuse. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
4.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @4.1.9    4 months ago

jrSmiley_7_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Tacos!
5  Tacos!    4 months ago

It's entirely appropriate that the Vice President should be coordinating the effort and liaising with the various health agencies, the White House, and their opposite numbers in other countries who are all fighting to contain or treat this menace. The VP would be a good pick no matter who held the office.

The immediate attacks on Pence in this context are shameful and clearly rooted in political tribalism. There is a serious public health crisis happening and these idiots want to score political points. I hear a lot of screaming and yelling about Trump and Pence related to coronavirus, but so far, none of it has involved legitimate critiques.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1  Gordy327  replied to  Tacos! @5    4 months ago
The VP would be a good pick no matter who held the office.

I would think an actual infectious disease doctor or an expert in epidemiology or microbiology would be a far better choice to head up a task force dealing with an infectious disease. You know, an actual scientist.

There is a serious public health crisis happening and these idiots want to score political points.

Yes, so perhaps someone who deals in public health or medicine should be in charge. Not some mere politician who has no such credentials.

I hear a lot of screaming and yelling about Trump and Pence related to coronavirus, but so far, none of it has involved legitimate critiques.

So a total lack of qualification to lead a health related task force is not an adequate criticism? Usually, when someone is hired or assigned to do a job, they ideally have some qualifications associated with what they must do or deal with. The Surgeon General would have been a much better choice. Choosing Pence seems more like Trump was giving him something to do. 

 
 
 
Dulay
5.1.1  Dulay  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1    4 months ago
I would think an actual infectious disease doctor or an expert in epidemiology or microbiology would be a far better choice to head up a task force dealing with an infectious disease. You know, an actual scientist.

As an example of how LOW my expectations of the Administration have become, I would accept someone that at least acknowledged scientific expertise. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1.2  Gordy327  replied to  Dulay @5.1.1    4 months ago
I would accept someone that at least acknowledged scientific expertise. 

Instead of mere opinions or even religious delusion.

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.1.3  Tacos!  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1    4 months ago
I would think an actual infectious disease doctor or an expert in epidemiology or microbiology would be a far better choice to head up a task force dealing with an infectious disease.

Not at all. We're talking about someone who needs to coordinate various agencies, and talk to politicians, and officials who control resources - both in this country and in other countries. The VP is great for that. If the medical people want something, who is likely to get the attention of Congress or the president quickest? A doctor? Or the Vice President?

VPs are often put in charge of complex projects like this. That doesn't mean they need to do anything related to the core task. It's why VP Lyndon Johnson - not a rocket scientist -  could be in charge of NASA.

Infectious disease doctors are on the team, but they don't need to lead it. At the press conference the other day, we heard from Dr. Anne Schuchat, Principal Deputy Director at the CDC.

Meet CDC's Anne Schuchat, A Real-Life Virus Hunter Stopping Deadly Disease In Its Tracks

So a total lack of qualification to lead a health related task force is not an adequate criticism?

No. It demonstrates ignorance of the complexity of an undertaking like this. Frankly, I don't think it is genuinely rooted in a reasoned analysis, but more in political tribalism. Consider some of the complexity of coordinating the response effort:

Update: Public Health Response to the Coronavirus Disease 2019 Outbreak — United States, February 24, 2020

CDC teams are working with the Department of Homeland Security at 11 airports where all flights from China are being directed to screen travelers returning to the United States, and to refer them to U.S. health departments for oversight of self-monitoring. CDC is also working with other agencies of the U.S. government including the U.S. Department of Defense ; multiple operational divisions with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services , including the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response and the Administration for Children and Families; and the U.S. Department of State to safely evacuate U.S. citizens, residents, and their families to the United States from international locations where there is substantial, sustained transmission of COVID-19, and to house them and monitor their health during a 14-day quarantine period.

Is an infectious disease doctor or even the Surgeon General the person best suited to liaise with Homeland Security and China and DOD and HHS and the State Department? I doubt it. They might be, but declaring that the Vice President is wrong for that job is pretty silly.

 
 
 
Dulay
5.1.4  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5.1.3    4 months ago
Infectious disease doctors are on the team, but they don't need to lead it. At the press conference the other day, we heard from Dr. Anne Schuchat, Principal Deputy Director at the CDC.

What makes you think that Pence will listen to CDC's recommendations any more than he did in Indiana? It took Pence ovar a month to be FORCED to allow the needle exchange program. 

 
 
 
Heartland American
5.1.5  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.2    4 months ago

Had you been watching the on topic news conference you would see that he and the rest of the group are doing s great job. As the President said, the hoax is democrats blaming his administration and our researchers for the virus.  

 
 
 
Heartland American
5.1.6  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Tacos! @5.1.3    4 months ago

I hope all the critics saw that very fine  and comforting informative news conference that just concluded.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5.1.7  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Dulay @5.1.1    4 months ago

Trump only appoints people that have no expertise in whatever field or task he appoints them to.  This way he has people who don't know shit just like him.

 
 
 
Heartland American
5.1.8  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.1.7    4 months ago

Not only do people of faith and those with deeply held-religious convictions deserve a seat at the table -- but I would argue they’re very often the most qualified and most appropriate people to hold such roles.

That’s because in the history of global pandemics and other health emergencies, it’s very often been people of faith who have sacrificially and competently served in humanitarian relief roles. Like Vice President Pence, their faith commands them to rush in when everyone else is inclined to run out.

It would be good and appropriate for all people of faith to pray for the vice president as he steps into this critical role. He is a good man who loves our country and, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, he deserves our support for this assignment. May we be one country with one voice, praying for containment of this deadly virus, even invoking the words of Jesus Himself who said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.”  https://thenewstalkers.com/community/discussion/49627/lefts-outrage-on-pence-leading-coronavirus-response-is-latest-example-of-religious-intolerance#cm1264035

 
 
 
Dulay
5.1.9  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.5    4 months ago

No one is blaming Trump for the virus Xx. They are blaming Trump for his incompetent handling of our reaction to the virus. Trump is whistling past the graveyard and demands that we all to join him. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5.1.10  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.8    4 months ago

This has nothing to do with his religion.  It has everything to do with that he has no expertise in the field.  If he does manage to pull this off, I will be the first to say Hail Jebus.

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.1.11  Tessylo  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.6    4 months ago

'I hope all the critics saw that very fine  and comforting informative news conference that just concluded.'  jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

The one where the 'president' showed he had no clue about vaccines and the flu and the corona virus?  

Is that why they're now blocking all audio and video about releases of information about the corona virus coming from this inept and incompetent administration?

 
 
 
katrix
5.1.12  katrix  replied to  Heartland American @5.1.8    4 months ago
May we be one country with one voice, praying for containment of this deadly virus

Why waste time praying? I'm more interested in having people learn FACTS about how best to protect themselves, how to avoid spreading disease, and in having our government make informed, factual decisions rather than an idiot like Trump blathering about how he knows nothing about viruses or vaccinations.

You know, things that will actually save lives.

 
 
 
katrix
5.1.13  katrix  replied to  Tessylo @5.1.11    4 months ago
The one where the 'president' showed he had no clue about vaccines and the flu and the corona virus?  

TDS is real. These people watch him show how clueless he is - and they lie and claim he was acting informed.

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5    4 months ago
The immediate attacks on Pence in this context are shameful and clearly rooted in political tribalism.

If it's so fucking clear to you Tacos! how about you cite evidence that the criticism CAN NOT be based on anything but 'political tribalism'. 

There is a serious public health crisis happening and these idiots want to score political points.

From our experience here in Indiana, Pence's reaction to a 'serious public health crisis' was based on scoring political points and directly led to the larges rural outbreak of HIV in the country. THAT is how Pence 'leads' during a 'serious public health crisis'. 

I hear a lot of screaming and yelling about Trump and Pence related to coronavirus, but so far, none of it has involved legitimate critiques.

False. 

There have been a plethora of 'legitimate critiques' in the last couple of weeks. MINE is a legitimate critique. The HHS whistleblower's is a legitimate critique. Sen. Kennedy's was a legitimate critique. The House Appropriation's committee's was a legitimate critique. Congressman John Garamendi's critique is a legitimate critique. The City of Costa Mesa's is a legitimate critique. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.2.1  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @5.2    4 months ago
how about you cite evidence that the criticism CAN NOT be based on anything but 'political tribalism'.

How about you cite evidence that it's not? Where is the evidence - requiring an analysis of the job to be done - that the VP is the wrong person for the job?

There have been a plethora of 'legitimate critiques' in the last couple of weeks.

No, there haven't. You're welcome to try and make one, but I don't think you'll be able to.

 
 
 
Heartland American
5.2.2  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.1    4 months ago

The democrat leaning critics of Trump, Pence, and our national efforts to fight the virus are the hoax the President refers to

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.2.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Heartland American @5.2.2    4 months ago

the president and his lackeys are the joax

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.4  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.1    4 months ago
How about you cite evidence that it's not?

You made the assertion, you have the burden of proof. Please proceed. 

Where is the evidence - requiring an analysis of the job to be done - that the VP is the wrong person for the job?

You've equivocated in other comments. I am talking specifically about Pence. There is documented evidence from the CDC and other sources about Pence's incompetence during the HIV crisis in rural Indiana. If you're actually interested in reviewing the facts, look it up. I LIVED through it. 

No, there haven't.

Yes there have and I've already cited multiple examples. There are many more. 

You can have your own opinion but you can't have your own facts. 

You're welcome to try and make one, but I don't think you'll be able to.

I already have. I could not care less whether you acknowledge or accept that fact. 

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.5  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @5.2.2    4 months ago

The hundreds of people that contracted HIV in southern Indiana because of Pence's incompetence aren't a hoax. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.2.6  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @5.2.4    4 months ago
You can have your own opinion but you can't have your own facts. 

I'm the only one who has supplied facts. All we have from you is your biased opinion.

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.7  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.6    4 months ago
I'm the only one who has supplied facts.

Yes, a link from CDC that is conveniently dated prior to the HHS whistleblower allegations were made public. 

All we have from you is your biased opinion.

My opinion of Pence isn't based on bias, it's based on FACTS and experience. The other examples that I cited are easily verifiable. Again, not based on bias but on good faith reactions of what Trump is doing in their community. 

Maybe instead of going to CPAC or fundraisers, Pence should be going to the west coast and talking to the people on the ground dealing with the shit show his boss created there. 

BTW, the CDC was witness to what went down with the HHS in CA. If what the whistleblower says is true, the CDC SHOULD have thrown a red flag and demanded that the HHS employees be properly quarantined. If the HHS refused, the CDC should have informed the County government and the Governor of CA about the threat immediately. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.2.8  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @5.2.7    4 months ago
Yes, a link from CDC that is conveniently dated prior to the HHS whistleblower allegations were made public. 

What a great example of how stupid these politically motivated criticisms are. The date and the whistleblower are entirely irrelevant. But you present this "fact" as if it means something. 

the CDC SHOULD have

Now you want to say what the CDC should be doing. Your expertise is stunning!

 
 
 
KDMichigan
5.2.9  KDMichigan  replied to  Dulay @5.2.4    4 months ago
I LIVED through it. 

You did? So you were a heroine addict that shared needles? Because that was the major contributing factor for the spread of HIV in rural Indiana. It's not Pence's fault that dope addicts don't care about there own health.

 
 
 
loki12
5.2.10  loki12  replied to  KDMichigan @5.2.9    4 months ago

And the country is better off with the worthless fucktard drug addicts dead.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
5.2.11  KDMichigan  replied to  loki12 @5.2.10    4 months ago

Now it is Pences fault because some dumbass, inbred Hoosier hillbilly's shared needles. God I love America. 

 
 
 
loki12
5.2.12  loki12  replied to  KDMichigan @5.2.11    4 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.2.13  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @5.2.7    4 months ago
Pence should be going to the west coast and talking to the people on the ground dealing

I'm betting that both Pence and "people on the west coast" have telephones. But you know, if you think it's critical to spend taxpayer dollars and burn some more fuel, by all means make your case.

I'm sorry. I have to stop to laugh. jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

the shit show his boss created there

Pence's boss is Trump. Are you making a claim that Trump is either causing Coronavirus or compelling people to work without protective gear? Have you seen some kind of executive order, forbidding people to wear masks or something?

I'm sorry. I have to laugh some more. jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Heartland American
5.2.14  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.13    4 months ago

Like Trump said the last 24 hours, the disease is a serious but seemingly manageable situation.  The democrats response to this foreign originated disease blaming Trump and Pence and our federal researchers for it is indeed nothing but a sick hoax.  

 
 
 
loki12
5.2.15  loki12  replied to  loki12 @5.2.12    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.16  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.8    4 months ago

Your unfounded opinion is noted. 

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.17  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.13    4 months ago
I'm betting that both Pence and "people on the west coast" have telephones. But you know, if you think it's critical to spend taxpayer dollars and burn some more fuel, by all means make your case.
I'm sorry. I have to stop to laugh.

Right because it was a so much better use or jet fuel to fly down to Florida for a fundraiser. Ya, laugh it up. 

Pence's boss is Trump. Are you making a claim that Trump is either causing Coronavirus or compelling people to work without protective gear? Have you seen some kind of executive order, forbidding people to wear masks or something?

Well gee, any review of Trump's 'Obama sucks' campaign will find plenty of Trump tweets claiming that Obama was personally responsible for the Ebola cases in the US. 

I'm sorry.

I know. 

I have to laugh some more.

I don't find hypocrisy funny. 

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.18  Dulay  replied to  KDMichigan @5.2.9    4 months ago
You did? So you were a heroine addict that shared needles? Because that was the major contributing factor for the spread of HIV in rural Indiana.

My cousin lives just outside of Austin, IN. 

If you have no kinship with your fellow Michiganders, that's on you. 

It's not Pence's fault that dope addicts don't care about there own health.

It sure as fuck IS Pence's fault that many more people were infected because he refused to listen to the CDC. 

 
 
 
KDMichigan
5.2.19  KDMichigan  replied to  Dulay @5.2.18    4 months ago
My cousin lives just outside of Austin, IN. 

Because your cousin lives in Indiana you LIVED through it...

256

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.20  Dulay  replied to  KDMichigan @5.2.19    4 months ago

I live in Indiana too KDMichigan, 5 minutes from the Michigan border in fact. 

 
 
 
bugsy
5.2.21  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @5.2.5    4 months ago
The hundreds of people that contracted HIV in southern Indiana because of Pence's incompetence aren't a hoax. 

Soooooo. people who have unprotected sex or share needles for drug use getting AIDS is Pence's fault?

TDS in its finest form.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
5.2.22  KDMichigan  replied to  Dulay @5.2.20    4 months ago
I live in Indiana too KDMichigan

Well golly gee willikers Dulay why did you feel compelled to throw you cousin in the mix? You are the one that felt justified in living threw it because your cousin lives there. Shades of how you are a farmer because your grampy had a vegetable garden....

 he refused to listen to the CDC. 

Because the CDC is all knowing? Kind of like how the 'son of a bitch' Obama dropped the ball on the swine flu?

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.23  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @5.2.21    4 months ago

Why, yes, of course it is ALWAYS some politician's fault that people make bad choices.

Personal responsibility seems to be a thing of the past for many in this country.

 
 
 
MUVA
5.2.24  MUVA  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.23    4 months ago

Personal responsibility is a dirty word to some after all some people want to be artist , musicians or smoke weed and lay on the couch.   

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.2.25  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @5.2.16    4 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JumpDrive
5.2.26  JumpDrive  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.23    4 months ago
Why, yes, of course it is ALWAYS some politician's fault that people make bad choices. Personal responsibility seems to be a thing of the past for many in this country.

People were addicted to opiods. They are going to inject, did not have access to clean needles, so they were spreading HIV. A real world problem that you must deal with. Blathering about people's bad choices is moronic and useless. Pence's religious beliefs at first caused him to resist the proven effective clean needle program, and then as HIV spread, he allowed it with restrictions that made it far less effective than it could have been. So yes, he is directly responsible for the spread of the epidemic. This is why you put people with scientific knowledge in charge of real world problems rather than ideologues.

You do realize that Trump had the people who reported real information to Congress removed and replaced with Pence so he could control the message to protect himself, don't you? You do realize that this is exactly what the Chinese administration did, for exactly the same reason, don't you? Look how that worked out for the Chinese.

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.27  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @5.2.21    4 months ago
Soooooo. people who have unprotected sex or share needles for drug use getting AIDS is Pence's fault?

First of all HIV isn't AIDS. 

Secondly, those 'who have unprotected sex or share needles for drug use' were STILL Pence's constituents and he was responsible for mitigating a threat to their well being.

The CDC put the science in front of Pence and he IGNORED it. PERIOD, full stop.

Thirdly, is it your posit that it isn't the responsibility of leadership to address drug  addiction in our communities?  I guess you support the elimination of the billions we spend in AA, NA and other related programs.  

TDS in its finest form.

So any critique of Pence is TDS? Are you actually claiming that Trump would accept any responsibility for assigning an incompetent like Pence to address this medical crisis? That's laughable. 

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.28  Dulay  replied to  KDMichigan @5.2.22    4 months ago
Well golly gee willikers Dulay why did you feel compelled to throw you cousin in the mix?

I stated in a prior post in this thread that I live in Indiana KD. My cousin does too and is in the health care field. Even though I live in NW Indiana, I was well informed about the cluster fuck that Pence created in Southern Indiana. 

You are the one that felt justified in living threw it because your cousin lives there.

I needed no 'justification' for living THROUGH it, I paid Pence's salary. I contacted my Representatives, both state and federal and shared the information my cousin passed on to me. 

Shades of how you are a farmer because your grampy had a vegetable garden....

Shades of your inability to stay on topic and address the issue in front of you. Well done. 

Because the CDC is all knowing?

Well golly gee willikers KD, I'm pretty fucking sure that they're too busy with epidemiology to be 'all knowing' on astrophysics. /s

Kind of like how the 'son of a bitch' Obama dropped the ball on the swine flu?

How did Obama drop the ball on the swine flu? Please be specific. 

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.29  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.25    4 months ago
No one gives a shit about "notes." Geez, how pretentious!

How is taking notice of your comment pretentions Tex? Would you rather your comments be ignored? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.30  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @5.2.29    4 months ago

Are you addressing Tacos or me?

I vote for you ignoring ALL my comments!

 
 
 
JBB
5.2.31  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.30    4 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.32  Texan1211  replied to  JumpDrive @5.2.26    4 months ago
People were addicted to opiods. They are going to inject, did not have access to clean needles, so they were spreading HIV. A real world problem that you must deal with.

I didn't deny that. Funny how they can manage to get the drugs but not a clean needle, though.

Blathering about people's bad choices is moronic and useless.

Blathering? Get real, buddy. Noting that people make bad choices and that it is on them isn't blathering. It is pointing out facts.

Pence's religious beliefs at first caused him to resist the proven effective clean needle program, and then as HIV spread, he allowed it with restrictions that made it far less effective than it could have been. So yes, he is directly responsible for the spread of the epidemic. This is why you put people with scientific knowledge in charge of real world problems rather than ideologues.

Sure, it MUST be some politician's fault that dumbasses chose to abuse drugs and didn't know enough to prevent spreading disease.

Do those addicts bear ANY responsibility in your eyes for their sorry plight?

 
 
 
Heartland American
5.2.33  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.32    4 months ago

What’s really sad now is that there are secular progressive leftist groups out there that are openly mocking Pence and the commission because they pray before starting their meetings.  The bigoted intolerance is unreal and sad for our country.  It’s not as If there was no precedent for national leaders praying during a serious situation.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.34  Tessylo  replied to  loki12 @5.2.10    4 months ago

Wow, your compassion is so underwhelming.  

 
 
 
JumpDrive
5.2.35  JumpDrive  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.32    4 months ago
Funny how they can manage to get the drugs but not a clean needle

You can go to a pharmacy and buy needles and syringes without a prescription, but you are exposing yourself as a addict. Anonymous clean needle programs work. Pence, by requiring registration, provided a second unacceptable method of obtaining clean needles. They actually interviewed a white, suburban housewife who didn't want her neighbors to know about her addiction; now she has HIV.

Noting that people make bad choices and that it is on them isn't blathering.

If you're charged with designing an efficient plane and you find your engineers fussing about gravity, you will be having a WTF moment. Gravity exists, addicts exist, pointing out either is just noise.

... it MUST be some politician's fault that dumbasses chose to abuse drugs ... Do those addicts bear ANY responsibility in your eyes for their sorry plight?

Nowhere in my post do I blame Pence for the existence of addicts, or excuse addicts for their predicament. I blame Pence for ignoring subject matter experts, making a crippling modification to a program that's been around for many decades, thus fueling the spread of HIV.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.36  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @5.2.33    4 months ago

What's sad is our elected officials waste time praying rather than doing something constructive, to have an actual tangible effect. Wishful thinking doesn't get anything done. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.37  Texan1211  replied to  JumpDrive @5.2.35    4 months ago

I have a very hard time feeling much sympathy for drug users who get diseases through their own choices.

As far as the housewife, she could have ordered needles on Amazon quite cheaply. They would have been delivered to her door and no one would have known.

I refuse to make excuses for what poor choices some make.

I don't feel it is the job of government to allow people to abuse drugs illegally and to protect them from their very own stupidity.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.38  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.36    4 months ago

Praying can't hurt, so why be bothered by it? 

Do you honestly think a few minutes is going to make much of a difference?

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.39  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.38    4 months ago

Because it's a waste of time. They can pray on their own time. When they're on the clock, they should be doing their jobs. That's certainly not an unreasonable expectation.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.40  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.39    4 months ago
ecause it's a waste of time. They can pray on their own time. When they're on the clock, they should be doing their jobs. That's certainly not an unreasonable expectation

It doesn't hurt anyone and certainly doesn't have any effect on their job performance.

If one person was a Muslim, and a meeting was scheduled at noon, should that person be acommodated?

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.41  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.40    4 months ago

WhI cares? It's still not doing their job. Not doing one's job does not help job performance. If they want a job praying, they can be priests. Otherwise,  they're wasting time.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.42  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.41    4 months ago

Doesn't hurt anything or anyone.

Just something frivolous to gripe about, nothing of substance to the griping.

Making a mountain out of a molehill.

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.43  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.8    4 months ago
What a great example of how stupid these politically motivated criticisms are.

What lead you to the unfounded conclusion that my criticism was politically motivated? I posted a fact and the information from the whistleblower directly addresses the 'bang up' job that the CDC and the Trump team is doing. 

The date and the whistleblower are entirely irrelevant. But you present this "fact" as if it means something. 

So you don't think that the FACT that the HHS sent untrained and unqualified people to address an infectious disease crisis means anything. Got ya. 

It never ceases to amaze me how some here will defend anything and everything that Trump does, even now when lives are at stake. 

Now you want to say what the CDC should be doing. Your expertise is stunning!

I'm not surprised by your reaction since it's common sense and morally responsible. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.44  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.42    4 months ago

Again, irrelevant.  So how much time needs to pass before it becomes an "issue?" I guess I have higher expectations when it comes to people doing their jobs.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.45  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.44    4 months ago

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

The second one is me, helping you to get that molehill to be a mountain.

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.2.46  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @5.2.43    4 months ago
What lead you to the unfounded conclusion that my criticism was politically motivated?

Since you have already decided my conclusion was unfounded, your question would not seem to be an honest inquiry.

I posted a fact and the information from the whistleblower directly addresses the 'bang up' job that the CDC and the Trump team is doing. 

You have made no connection demonstrating that anything the whistleblower reported on is connected to something Pence or Trump did. That's what this seed is about and it's what this thread is about. Thus, your criticism of Pence or Trump in this context is the thing that is unfounded. There is literally no foundation to support your conclusion that Pence or Trump are at fault for what happened.

I asked you to make that specific connection and you have made no attempt to do so. Again, that is a sign that your criticisms must be politically motivated.

So you don't think that the FACT that the HHS sent untrained and unqualified people to address an infectious disease crisis means anything.

No, it doesn't mean that Trump or Pence have done something wrong. It means - at most - someone at HHS may have done something wrong. Right now, we have very limited information.

Got ya.

Clearly you don't. Your rants are so disconnected from the topic or anything I have written, that you don't "got" shit.

It never ceases to amaze me how some here will defend anything and everything that Trump does

It never ceases to amaze me how freely you engage in your dishonest straw man attacks. Trump hasn't done anything in the context of this story that requires defending. And, in fact, I have made no attempt to defend him because it's not relevant.

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.47  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.46    4 months ago
Since you have already decided my conclusion was unfounded, your question would not seem to be an honest inquiry.

What lead you to it IS an honest inquiry. Please proceed. 

You have made no connection demonstrating that anything the whistleblower reported on is connected to something Pence or Trump did. That's what this seed is about and it's what this thread is about. Thus, your criticism of Pence or Trump in this context is the thing that is unfounded. There is literally no foundation to support your conclusion that Pence or Trump are at fault for what happened.

That's fucking hilarious. You and your fellow travelers blamed Obama if someone in the Executive branch farted but you what to claim that Trump's cluster fuck isn't his fault. 

BTFW, Trump nominated Azar, a lobbyist, to head HHS. There's your connection. 

Pffft. 

I asked you to make that specific connection and you have made no attempt to do so.

Which comment was that in? 

Again, that is a sign that your criticisms must be politically motivated.

Again, unfounded. 

No, it doesn't mean that Trump or Pence have done something wrong. It means - at most - someone at HHS may have done something wrong.

There lies the rub Tacos!. Y'all insisted for 8 years that it was all Obama's fault. Hell, Trump is STILL doing it. But suddenly, it's 'someone', anyone but Trump or Pence. 

Right now, we have very limited information.

That's what happens when Trump and Pence put a gag order on officials. 

Clearly you don't. Your rants are so disconnected from the topic or anything I have written, that you don't "got" shit.

Bullshit. 

It never ceases to amaze me how freely you engage in your dishonest straw man attacks. Trump hasn't done anything in the context of this story that requires defending. And, in fact, I have made no attempt to defend him because it's not relevant.

You JUST said this:

It means - at most - someone at HHS may have done something wrong. 

So while that may not be an outright defense, it sure as hell looks like a pass. You also claimed that there was no legitimate criticism of Trump's actions when there is a TON. Ignoring it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

 
 
 
JumpDrive
5.2.48  JumpDrive  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.37    4 months ago
As far as the housewife, she could have ordered needles on Amazon quite cheaply. They would have been delivered to her door and no one would have known

If I even look at something on Amazon, I see ads for it on all my devices at half the places I go. She would never know when one might pop up. To think that Amazon purchases are anonymous is naive.

But this is the real problem:

I have a very hard time feeling much sympathy ...

Out-of-group sympathy is not an attribute of many conservatives. They support SNAP reductions even though 18% of children don't have adequate food. The say "want health insurance, get a job" when the people without health insurance are the ones who have jobs, unfortunately for them, poorly paying ones. If you have no income, Medicaid is available.

Addiction is usually caused by stress the person is experiencing. The gov't was terrified of the returning Vietnam soldiers. Almost a quarter were addicted to heroine. But, about 97% of these 'addicts' simply stopped using when the came back. We have 70,000 white people dying of drug overdoses in the midwest every year. They are experiencing the same thing blacks experienced when manufacturing moved out of the cities in the 80s. Without sympathy there will be no action, without action huge groups are condemned to misery.

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.2.49  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @5.2.47    4 months ago
That's fucking hilarious. You and your fellow travelers blamed Obama if someone in the Executive branch farted but you what to claim that Trump's cluster fuck isn't his fault.

Oh look! You want to attack me for something I haven't done. Another straw man. How unsurprising, considering the source. 

BTFW, Trump nominated Azar, a lobbyist, to head HHS. There's your connection.

That's still not a connection to the alleged events. Where is your cause and effect? All I see is political partisanship and emotion. No facts anywhere that show Azar directed or allowed people to do the things alleged, and certainly no facts showing that Trump knew, should have known, or directed any such thing to happen. It's pure political fantasy, aka bullshit.

Which comment was that in?

@5.2.13, but I expect you will continue to ignore your obligation to support your absurd claims with actual evidence.

So while that may not be an outright defense, it sure as hell looks like a pass.

I haven't given anyone a pass because you haven't demonstrated anything to give a pass for.

You also claimed that there was no legitimate criticism of Trump's actions when there is a TON.

You have presented none.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.50  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.45    4 months ago

No surprise that you're not answering the question nor contributing anything of value.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.51  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.50    4 months ago

No surprise your anti-religion venom is showing.

Keep making mountains out of molehills. You seem adept at it!

meanwhile. we have real problems to work on.

This isn't one of them, though.

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.52  katrix  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.51    4 months ago
No surprise your anti-religion venom is showing.

Funny that you consider his wanting lives to be saved to be "anti-religious venom". Prayer has been proven to not work - so we would appreciate it if these people do their damn jobs, using science, so they can save lives.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.53  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.51    4 months ago

No surprise your pro-religious bias is showing, not to mention you still haven't answered the question. But if there are problems to work on, then time should be spent working on them. Not wasting time praying about a problem, as that won't solve anything.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.54  Texan1211  replied to  katrix @5.2.52    4 months ago
Funny that you consider his wanting lives to be saved to be "anti-religious venom"

If you think for one second that a few minutes spent praying is costing lives, then I probably shouldn't engage with you. That is too ludicrous for me to even debate.

Prayer has been proven to not work - so we would appreciate it if these people do their damn jobs, using science, so they can save lives.

You don't know if prayer works or not.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.55  It Is ME  replied to  katrix @5.2.52    4 months ago
so we would appreciate it if these people do their damn jobs, using science, so they can save lives.

The "Flu" still kills more people than this "Coronavirus" has.

When doe the "Common Cold" (A Coronavirus) get "THE CURE" ?

"Science" still ...… has it's own issues ! jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.56  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.54    4 months ago

Praying for a solution to a potentially deadly virus is ludicrous too. And there is no empirical evidence to support any claim that prayer "worked." 

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.57  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.53    4 months ago
No surprise your pro-religious bias is showing, not to mention you still haven't answered the question. But if there are problems to work on, then time should be spent working on them. Not wasting time praying about a problem, as that won't solve anything.

Here are the only two questions you asked of me:

1. WhI cares? 

2. So how much time needs to pass before it becomes an "issue?"

here are your precious answers:

1. I do.

2. More than a few minutes at the start of some meeting.

Now. since you made such a fucking mountain out of this molehill, how's about YOU answering MY questions instead of whining?

Go!

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.58  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.55    4 months ago

At least science works towards results. Not wishful thinking like prayer.

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.59  katrix  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.55    4 months ago

The flu has a much lower mortality rate than the coronavirus.

And there isn't one "common cold." Do some research - it's easy to find out.

There is no reason to be willfully ignorant of such things.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.60  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.56    4 months ago
Praying for a solution to a potentially deadly virus is ludicrous too. And there is no empirical evidence to support any claim that prayer "worked." 

Only thing ludicrous is your fixation and preoccupation with anything religious.

As has been pointed out to you previously, prayer isn't hurting you or anyone else. 

Get over it already, dud, this is ONLY a BFD to YOU.

The rest of the world largely doesn't give a shit.

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.61  katrix  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.54    4 months ago
You don't know if prayer works or not

Actually, I'm pretty certain that prayers do not work. There is lots of evidence supporting my position, and none at all which suggests that it works.

If you think for one second that a few minutes spent praying is costing lives, then I probably shouldn't engage with you

If you think for one second that spending a few minutes praying is going to make any difference, then you probably shouldn't engage with me. I'm not a fan of delusions.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.62  It Is ME  replied to  katrix @5.2.59    4 months ago
The flu has a much lower mortality rate than the coronavirus.

Past Coronaviruses....or just this one ?

"And there isn't one "common cold."

Duh !

Do some research - it's easy to find out.

Still no Cure, according to my research !

"There is no reason to be willfully ignorant of such things."

An "Assumption" on your part ?

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.63  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.58    4 months ago
At least science works towards results. Not wishful thinking like prayer.

Depends on if "Open Mind" comes into play with you.

Both have their "Positives".

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.64  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.57    4 months ago

If you actually care, then it seems to be you making mountains out of molehills, as you say. And what's "more than a few minutes" exactly?  How vague.

As for your Muslim question: no! No accommodation should be made. If a meeting is scheduled at a set time time, then that is the time, period. As for "a few minutes" making any difference,  yes it does. A "few minutes" here or a "few minutes" there, presumably everyday while on the clock adds up. Eventually to hours, possibly days. Geez, if I clock in at work everyday and then tell my boss I need to pray about work before actually doing anything, id probably get fired, and rightfully so.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.65  Texan1211  replied to  katrix @5.2.61    4 months ago
Actually, I'm pretty certain that prayers do not work.

Nice to see you speak for everyone in the world.

If you think for one second that spending a few minutes praying is going to make any difference, then you probably shouldn't engage with me.

I didn't say it made a difference. I stated that it makes no difference in the big picture if they spend a few minutes praying, and that few minutes doesn't mean more people die.

As far as you not engaging me, then why the fuck DID you?

 I'm not a fan of delusions.

Good, then you can put this silly delusion that the prayers will mean more deaths to bed forever, and move on.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.66  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.63    4 months ago

I'm open to evidence. Not personal biases or wishful thinking.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.67  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.60    4 months ago

Speak for yourself. Like I said, I have a higher expectation and probably a better work ethic to actually do my job when I'm on the clock as opposed to wasting time praying, which doesnt realistically accomplish anything.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.68  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.64    4 months ago
And what's "more than a few minutes" exactly?

few
[fyo͞o]

DETERMINER
(few)
a small number of.
"may I ask a few questions?" · [more]
synonyms:
not many · hardly any · scarcely any · a small number of · a small amount of · [more]
used to emphasize how small a number of people or things is.
"he had few friends" · [more]
synonyms:
not many · hardly any · scarcely any · a small number of · a small amount of · [more]

I would say anything under 5 minutes is a few. If you have evidence they prayed loinger, produce it.

None of these people punch time clocks. Your personal comparison falls flat there. You have no idea what hours they work.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.69  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.66    4 months ago
I'm open to evidence. Not personal biases or wishful thinking.

Evidence of ….. maybe …… THIS ?

https://www.preventdisease.com/news/11/040111_positive_attitude_illness.shtml

A positive attitude on life could help you to bounce back from the challenges of ill health, suggests a new study. 

An optimistic attitude can do wonders for patients' recovery, according to researchers who reviewed 16 studies that looked at patients' attitudes toward health. The studies spanned 30 years and looked at patients' attitudes after surgery. The review appeared in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.

"In each case the better a patient's expectations about how they would do after surgery or some health procedure, the better they did," said author Donald Cole, of the Institute for Work and Health in Toronto.

Across a wide range of clinical conditions, from lower back pain to heart surgery, patients who felt they would do well in recovery did, according to Cole. Patients who were scared or pessimistic about their recovery did not recover as quickly as the optimists or as well.

"Less pain [after surgery] was directly associated with better expectations, positive expectations," Cole said. 

Psychologists say that putting on a brave face works even for serious complaints such as arthritis, diabetes and heart conditions. 

Religion does make folks optimistic with life !

Psychology is considered a science , because it utilizes scientific methodology for devising treatments and measuring outcomes

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.70  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.67    4 months ago
Speak for yourself.

Always do, I don't need someone to tell me what to think and what to say.

Like I said, I have a higher expectation and probably a better work ethic to actually do my job when I'm on the clock as opposed to wasting time praying, which doesnt realistically accomplish anything.

These are salaried people. They don't punch time clocks. Like I said repeatedly now, it doesn't hurt a damn thing.

Except for some folks' feelings.

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.71  katrix  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.65    4 months ago
Nice to see you speak for everyone in the world.

Studies have been done which provide evidence that they do not work. What people around the world choose to believe is up to them - not everyone is interested in evidence. Some people need their delusions.

And I suggested that you not engage with me - apparently you didn't bother reading what I actually wrote.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.72  Texan1211  replied to  katrix @5.2.71    4 months ago
And I suggested that you not engage with me - apparently you didn't bother reading what I actually wrote.

I did read what you wrote, and if you choose to get hung up on semantics, have fun!

BTFW, I write what I want TO who I want.

You don't get a say in that.

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.73  katrix  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.72    4 months ago
BTFW, I write what I want TO who I want. You don't get a say in that.

Coming from the person who just suggested I not engage with him/her

Hilarious.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.74  Texan1211  replied to  katrix @5.2.73    4 months ago

As hilarious as people getting their panties in a wad because someone else dared to (GASP!!!) pray??

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.75  It Is ME  replied to  katrix @5.2.71    4 months ago
Studies have been done which provide evidence that they do not work.

See comment 5.2.69 ! jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.76  katrix  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.74    4 months ago

Pointing out that praying won't do a thing to stop the coronavirus is hardly getting our panties in a wad.

You, on the other hand, appear close to a meltdown.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.77  Texan1211  replied to  katrix @5.2.76    4 months ago

I just can't believe that two posters are going on and on and on over someone saying a prayer.

What effect on your life does someone else praying have?

Me pointing out that the prayers don't hurt anything isn't getting me anywhere close to a meltdown--I deal with anti-religious zealots all the time. I am not trying to convince you that prayer works or that you should believe in it--just pointing out that it certainly doesn't hurt anyone.

SInce it doesn't hurt anyone, all this complaining about it is pointless.

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.78  katrix  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.75    4 months ago

Before you jump in with your idiotic emojis, perhaps you should have read the article.

It is claiming that we should pray for Pence so that he does a good job. And that won't do a damn thing to make him more competent, to stop the spread of this disease, or to develop a vaccine.

Your link to how prayer (like meditation) can have a calming influence on the person doing it is completely irrelevant.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.79  Texan1211  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.69    4 months ago

I don't think the science you presented will be well received by all.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.80  It Is ME  replied to  katrix @5.2.78    4 months ago
perhaps you should have read the article.

I did.

Stop "Assuming" ….. as you do constantly !

"It is claiming that we should pray for Pence so that he does a good job. And that won't do a damn thing to make him more competent, to stop the spread of this disease, or to develop a vaccine."

"Positive" attitudes aren't to your liking ?

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.81  It Is ME  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.79    4 months ago
I don't think the science you presented will be well received by all.

Only "Certain" Science is something to fall on the sword over for some. jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.82  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.70    4 months ago

Salary or not, they're paid to do a job. Not waste time. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.83  Texan1211  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.81    4 months ago

I just wonder how someone praying bothers them so damn much.

it is almost as if it is a personal affront to them.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.84  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.82    4 months ago
Salary or not, they're paid to do a job. Not waste time.

Are you claiming that they are not doing their jobs because they said a prayer? 

What do you expect them to do with all of what you consider "wasted time"?

Simple fact is they ARE doing their jobs. They prayed, and you don't like it. That is all this is--you voicing your personal displeasure at their prayers.

Still making mountains out of molehills.

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.85  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.80    4 months ago
Stop "Assuming" ….. as you do constantly !

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.86  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @5.2.85    4 months ago
Stop "Assuming" ….. as you do constantly !

I really do know what I say ! I don't need your help.  jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.87  It Is ME  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.83    4 months ago
it is almost as if it is a personal affront to them.

They look more towards "What Could Be". I think they call that type of "Science"....."Hypothetical". 

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.88  Texan1211  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.80    4 months ago
I did.
Stop "Assuming" ….. as you do constantly !
"It is claiming that we should pray for Pence so that he does a good job. And that won't do a damn thing to make him more competent, to stop the spread of this disease, or to develop a vaccine."
"Positive" attitudes aren't to your liking ?

I think sometimes they are secretly afraid that prayer does work.

Why else be so worried that others do it?

It certainly isn't hurting or affecting them in way, shape, form or fashion.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.89  It Is ME  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.88    4 months ago
I think sometimes they are secretly afraid that prayer does work.

"Positive Thinking" is the "Lefts" …… "Vampire Cross". Too much "positive" in this country, only hurts their agenda.

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.90  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.86    4 months ago
'I really do know what I say ! I don't need your help.'
That does not appear to be the case.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.91  Tessylo  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.89    4 months ago

Why would anyone be 'secretly' afraid of something that obviously doesn't work?

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.92  Texan1211  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.89    4 months ago
Too much "positive" in this country, only hurts their agenda.

Maybe we shouldn't expect more from the hair-on-fire, screaming-at-the-sky crowd.

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.93  katrix  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.88    4 months ago
It certainly isn't hurting or affecting them in way, shape, form or fashion.

Actually, there are people out there who pray INSTEAD of taking actual action to fix things or to heal things. Look at Pence, praying while people were getting HIV rather than taking any actions.

I don't give a crap if delusional people want to believe there is a god who grants their wishes, but it's ridiculous when they announce it as if that's actually going to make a difference. It may make them feel more positive, but it doesn't do squat for the people they're praying for.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.94  Texan1211  replied to  katrix @5.2.93    4 months ago
I don't give a crap if delusional people want to believe there is a god who grants their wishes, but it's ridiculous when they announce it as if that's actually going to make a difference. It may make them feel more positive, but it doesn't do squat for the people they're praying for.

Your other posts certainly tell a far different tale.

Seems like it is an issue if they prayed. Otherwise, why bother with it if it doesn't bother you?

That is contradictory and a little nuts.

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.95  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.49    4 months ago
Oh look! You want to attack me for something I haven't done.

Really? Never claimed that Obama was responsible for the actions of the IRS or the DHS or the CBP or the FBI or Hillary Clinton or Eric Holder or or or? Never voted up a comment from one of your fellow travelers that did so? 

Oh and BTFW, you have been accusing me of something I haven't done for days now. Shouldn't you hold yourself to your own standards? 

Another straw man. 

Pointing our your ideological hypocrisy isn't a strawman. 

How unsurprising, considering the source.

"Taunting is purposely trying to anger another member. Bullying is forcing oneself on another member by being personally offensive, abusive, threatening or harassing."

That's still not a connection to the alleged events. Where is your cause and effect?

Trump chose Azar. That is the CAUSE and EFFECT of incompetence at HHS. Trump also fired the entire NSC task force that was stood up to hit the ground running on just the type of threat that COVID-19 presents to the country. 

CDC budget request justifications:

https://www.cdc.gov/budget/index.html

2018:

The fiscal year (FY) 2018 President’s Budget request for CDC and ATSDR includes a total funding level of $6,037,243,000 in discretionary budget authority and the Prevention and Public Health Fund (PPHF). This is an overall decrease of $1,222,431,000 below the FY 2017 Annualized Continuing Resolution (CR) level. The FY 2018 budget request includes a number of programmatic reductions and eliminations, while maintaining key priorities that will allow CDC to advance its core public health mission. 

2019: 

The fiscal year (FY) 2019 budget request for CDC and ATSDR includes a total funding level of $5,722,755,000 in discretionary budget authority and PHS Evaluation Funds. This is $1,372,185,000 below the FY 2018 Annualized Continuing Resolution (CR) level. The FY 2019 budget request maintains a number of programmatic reductions and eliminations proposed in the FY 2018 President’s Budget. 

2020:

This request is $763,242,000 below the FY 2019 Enacted level. The FY 2020 request carries forward several proposed reductions and eliminations from the FY 2019 President’s Budget.  

Each year the CDC, based on Trump's budgets has REDUCED and ELIMINATED programs and overall spending for the CDC. 

Some here may be especially interested that the 2017 Obama budget included $16 million for "Good Health and Wellness in Indian Country" and Trump ZEROED that program out of his budget. That's just ONE of the programs that they zeroed out. 

All I see is political partisanship and emotion.

That's YOUR shortfall, not mine. 

No facts anywhere that show Azar directed or allowed people to do the things alleged, and certainly no facts showing that Trump knew, should have known, or directed any such thing to happen.

It is a FACT that Azar is the Secretary of HHS and ordered Administration for Children and Families employees, NONE of whom have medical expertise, to respond to a infectious disease crisis. 

It is a FACT that a whistleblower came forward and filed a complaint with HHS/OSC. 

It is a FACT that the whistleblower has a lawyer from a reputable firm. 

It is a FACT that because it is a CRIME to knowingly file a false complaint, no reputable lawyer would allow their client to file a whistleblower compliant without first ensuring that the whistleblower's allegations were credible.

It is a FACT that the HHS did not and has not denied anything contained in the whistleblower complaint.

It is a FACT that HHS has stated that they are conducting an investigation of what protocols and procedures were followed. In short, a month later, the HHS is pretending that they DO NOT KNOW what went down. 

It's pure political fantasy, aka bullshit.

Pffft. 

@ 5.2.13 , but I expect you will continue to ignore your obligation to support your absurd claims with actual evidence.

Nope, you did NOT ask me to make a specific connection to anything in 5.2.13. 

Nor did I make any 'absurd claims' in the comment that you replied to in 5.2.13. YOU asked absurd hyperbolic questions, neither of which had anything to do with the content of my 5.2.7 comment. 

In short, I have no 'obligation' to play your game. 

I haven't given anyone a pass because you haven't demonstrated anything to give a pass for.

Oh but you have and denying it doesn't make it less true. 

You have presented none.

That is a lie. 

 
 
 
Ender
5.2.96  Ender  replied to  katrix @5.2.93    4 months ago

Makes me think of the pray the gay away crap.

Never once worked.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.97  It Is ME  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.92    4 months ago
Maybe we shouldn't expect more from the hair-on-fire, screaming-at-the-sky crowd.

Nutz only goes so far, for so long. The "Jig" is up....seeeeee ! jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.98  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @5.2.90    4 months ago
That does not appear to be the case.

What's …… "The case" ?

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.99  It Is ME  replied to  Tessylo @5.2.91    4 months ago
Why would anyone be 'secretly' afraid of something that obviously doesn't work?

Who said anything about anything being "A Secret" ?

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.100  katrix  replied to  Ender @5.2.96    4 months ago

Yep. Neither has praying for anything else. But some people have a hard time accepting reality. I can actually understand that - if you can convince yourself that prayer works, you won't feel as helpless when bad things happen if you think some god will grant your wishes like a genie.

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.101  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @5.2.33    4 months ago

Which 'secular progressive leftist groups' are those Xx? Please cite them. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.102  Tessylo  replied to  Dulay @5.2.95    4 months ago
CORONAVIRUS UPDATED FEB. 24, 2020

Why the Trump Administration’s Coronavirus Response Continues to Raise Concerns

azar_coronavirus.w700.h700.jpg
Health and Human Services secretary Alex Azar and CDC director Robert Redfield. Photo: OLIVIER DOULIERY/AFP via Getty Images

After new outbreaks of the COVID-19 novel coronavirus in South Korea, Italy, and Iran, many experts are now warning that the coronavirus is passing the pandemic tipping point. “When several countries have widespread transmission, then spillover to other countries is inevitable,” Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told Vox. “One cannot shut out the rest of the world.”

“Our window of opportunity [for containing the virus] is narrowing, so we need to act quickly before it closes completely,” World Health Organization director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said on Friday. Though there have been just over two dozen confirmed cases of the coronavirus in the U.S., and CDC officials say the risk of exposure for the American public remains low, there continue to be troubling signs that the Trump administration has been mismanaging the U.S. response and may not be adequately prepared for whatever happens next.

While some of the White House’s response has been praised, its approach has also included a mix of xenophobic policy, improvisation, and suddenly sharp turns in decision-making. And long before the first case of COVID-19 was discovered in mainland China, the administration had been putting off years of back-end work which may undermine the government’s ability to prepare for and handle a breakout of the scale that coronavirus may reach.

Current confirmed U.S. cases

Only 25 cases of the COVID-19 coronavirus have been confirmed in the U.S., including 14 Americans who were infected aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship in Japan. The other confirmed U.S. cases are all linked to travelers from the epicenter of the outbreak in mainland China. According to the CDC, COVID-19 “is NOT currently spreading in the community in the United States,” and it’s currently unlikely that the general public will be exposed to the virus. A pandemic is now likely, however, the CDC also warns — making more cases and person-to-person transmission in the country inevitable.

The Trump administration has temporarily barred entry for any foreigners who have traveled to China in the last 14 days. Americans who have been to mainland China will be subjected to health monitoring and possible quarantine. Those restrictions went against the recommendations of the WHO at the time, however.

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Many questions remain unanswered about the coronavirus, such as how many cases of the virus have gone undetected around the world — including in the U.S. — as well as what percentage of the people infected with COVID-19 develop the most severe and dangerous symptoms of the illness (like pneumonia), or experience only mild symptoms (like a common cold), or experience no symptoms at all. There is evidence of asymptomatic transmission from the latter group, but researchers are still trying to determine how widespread it is. The current fatality rate for confirmed cases of COVID-19 is around 2 percent, but that could be high if the total number of actual cases is far higher than the number of detected and confirmed cases. The incubation period of the virus, meanwhile, seems to be no more than 14 days from the point of exposure in most cases — which is why that is the length of most quarantines being put in place around the world for people who may have been exposed to COVID-19.

The potential stakes

How bad could it get? According to Harvard epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch, in the event of a pandemic, 40 to 70 percent of the world’s population could eventually become infected — though not all those infected would get sick, and not all those who get sick would become seriously ill. Whatever happens, the current outbreaks have already begun having economic consequences around the world, as well as potential political consequences in places like Japan.

Other looming problems include the strain on health-care systems and supply chains, in addition to the various ways outbreaks of disease disrupt people’s day-to-day lives, communities, and workplaces. Specific to the U.S., the potential political impact of an outbreak in an election year shouldn’t be underestimated, and it’s something that is already reportedly worrying President Trump. For an example of another question the U.S. may face: How will disinformation about the virus spread in a country where health officials have already been combating a proliferation of unsubstantiated fears about the safety of vaccines?

Undetected U.S. cases, a lack of testing, and problems at the CDC

There have been ongoing questions about whether undetected cases of the coronavirus are being transmitted within the U.S. The current CDC guidance, as well as the total cases reported by the World Health Organization, only reflect the numbers laboratory-confirmed cases. Two weeks ago, Nancy Messonnier, the director of the CDC’s immunization and respiratory-diseases department, announced that local health authorities will begin testing people who have flulike symptoms for coronavirus. The program will be rolled out in major cities including Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, and New York.

Very little testing has been done, however. Last week, Politico reported that problems with a CDC-developed coronavirus test delayed the agency’s plans to expand its testing — and thus get a sense of whether or not the virus is already spreading in the U.S.

It’s not clear when the new CDC test will be ready and distributed, but because of the test failure, only three out of 100 public-health labs in the U.S. have been able to test for COVID-19, according to the Association of Public Health Laboratories. In addition, the cost of each test is as much as $250, according to Politico, and the HHS has already been running out of money to pay for its response to the outbreak. A director at the APHL criticized the federal failure: “This is a national-level response, so we would hope the federal government would have an interest in supporting a national-level response.”

Potential housing issues

Some local officials — like the city leadership in Costa Mesa, California — are attempting to block government efforts to place potential patients who have tested positive for coronavirus but don’t have severe symptoms in a state hospital in the area. Meanwhile in Alabama, Senator Richard Shelby was apparently able to undo a government plan to move some quarantined Americans — after talking to the president.

The impact of the Trump administration’s budget and personnel cuts

On Monday, the White House asked Congress for $2.5 billion in emergency funds to handle coronavirus in the United States. (To compare to a recent health crisis, the Obama administration requested $6 billion in emergency funding for the 2014 Ebola outbreak and eventually received $5.4 billion.) Though Democrats in Congress have pushed the administration to call for emergency coronavirus funding since early February, Politico states that “White House officials have been hesitant to press Congress for additional funding, with some hoping that the virus would burn itself out by the summer.”

But as Foreign Policy’s Laurie Garrett recently explained, the administration has spent years enacting policies and putting forth budgets that have weakened the U.S. government’s ability to prepare for and respond to an outbreak like this one, both in the U.S. and abroad. In addition, as Garrett highlights, the administration’s notoriously dysfunctional personnel drama and haphazard efforts to reduce the size of the government haven’t helped either:

In May 2018, Trump ordered the NSC’s entire global health security unit shut down, calling for reassignment of Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer and dissolution of his team inside the agency. The month before, then-White House National Security Advisor John Bolton pressured Ziemer’s DHS counterpart, Tom Bossert, to resign along with his team. Neither the NSC nor DHS epidemic teams have been replaced. The global health section of the CDC was so drastically cut in 2018 that much of its staff was laid off and the number of countries it was working in was reduced from 49 to merely 10. Meanwhile, throughout 2018, the U.S. Agency for International Development and its director, Mark Green, came repeatedly under fire from both the White House and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. And though Congress has so far managed to block Trump administration plans to cut the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps by 40 percent, the disease-fighting cadres have steadily eroded as retiring officers go unreplaced.

The cruise-ship crisis

Just as concerning as the big-picture oversight is an individual case of mismanagement reported by the Washington Post last week, in which the State Department overruled a recommendation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stating that 14 Americans infected with coronavirus should not be flown home from Tokyo after disembarking the quarantined Diamond Princess:

The State Department and a top Trump administration health official wanted to forge ahead. The infected passengers had no symptoms and could be segregated on the plane in a plastic-lined enclosure. But officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention disagreed, contending they could still spread the virus. The CDC believed the 14 should not be flown back with uninfected passengers …

The State Department won the argument. But unhappy CDC officials demanded to be left out of the news release that explained that infected people were being flown back to the United States — a move that would nearly double the number of known coronavirus cases in this country.

Questions also remain over the evacuation of the MS Westerdam in Cambodia a week ago. It had been denied docking for two weeks after visiting Hong Kong. Cambodia’s authoritarian leader, Prime Minister Hun Sen, let the Westerdam, which had more than 600 U.S. passengers aboard, dock in his country — earning praise from both the U.S. ambassador and President Trump. The cruise line said no passengers exhibited any symptoms of the virus, but only 20 people were given laboratory tests before being allowed off. Hundreds of others left the ship after a health screening and temperature check via thermal scanner. They were not placed in quarantine. Two days later, an American woman from the ship developed symptoms on her chartered flight to Malaysia and tested positive for COVID-19 when she landed. No other passengers or crew from the ship have tested positive for the virus as of yet, but many other symptom-free Americans were still allowed to fly home that same day, and don’t appear to have faced any quarantines since. The U.S. managed at least part of this process, and appears to have managed it badly.

Trump’s public response and political fears

In White House meetings, Trump’s deputies have been reportedly urging him to have some restraint in his public statements related to outbreak and the U.S. response. So far, at least, the president has offered relatively few comments about the coronavirus compared to other topics, but that relative restraint may not hold if the threat grows and the government’s response dominates media coverage, and particularly if Trump takes any resulting criticism personally. According to Politico, Trump’s advisers also fear the president could create false hopes of a quick solution to the crisis, or offer questionable predictions like when he tweeted on February 7 that “as the weather starts to warm … the virus hopefully becomes weaker, and then gone.” (He repeated that claim to a group of governors, suggesting that spring temperatures would take care of the problem naturally.)

As administration officials reportedly share concerns that coronavirus is spreading undetected inside the U.S., the possibility of political blowback could soon affect the White House’s response to the outbreak. “The biggest current threat to the president’s reelection is this thing getting out of control and creating a health and economic impact,” Chris Meekins, a former Trump administration HHS emergency-preparedness official, told Politico. At the point of a substantial outbreak, Democratic messaging on the administration’s mismanagement could be equally as concerning to the Trump campaign. If a health crisis emerges, expect Democratic candidates to easily and effectively hit the president on proposed CDC cuts — the White House 2021 budget proposed this month suggested a 19 percent reduction — and administration policies designed to undermine scientific research.

This post has been updated throughout to include additional details, analysis, and commentary.

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.103  Dulay  replied to  katrix @5.2.61    4 months ago

You never know, Krishna, being female, could answer their prayer. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.104  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @5.2.102    4 months ago
In May 2018, Trump  ordered  the NSC’s entire global health security unit shut down, calling for reassignment of Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer and dissolution of his team inside the agency. The month before, then-White House National Security Advisor John Bolton  pressured  Ziemer’s DHS counterpart, Tom Bossert, to resign along with his team. Neither the NSC nor DHS epidemic teams have been replaced. The  global health section of the CDC  was so drastically cut in 2018 that much of its staff was laid off and the number of countries it was working in was reduced from 49 to merely 10. Meanwhile, throughout 2018, the U.S. Agency for International Development and its director, Mark Green, came repeatedly  under fire  from both the  White House  and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. And though Congress has so far managed to block Trump administration plans to cut the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps by  40 percent , the disease-fighting cadres have steadily eroded as retiring officers go unreplaced.

I think this needs to be repeated a million times to remind folks how inept and ill prepared and incompetent this administration is

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.105  katrix  replied to  Tessylo @5.2.102    4 months ago
If a health crisis emerges, expect Democratic candidates to easily and effectively hit the president on proposed CDC cuts — the White House 2021 budget proposed this month suggested a 19 percent reduction — and administration policies designed to   undermine scientific research .

Not to mention that most people actually like the idea of having health care, and think a flawed plan like the ACA is better than no plan at all. When a bunch of uninsured people have to spend days in the hospital, they'll probably start thinking harder about which party cares more about making sure they have access to health care.

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.2.106  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @5.2.95    4 months ago

Your entire screed is composed of lies, circular arguments and TDS. What a joke.

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.107  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @5.2.102    4 months ago
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/what-we-know-about-the-trump-admins-response-to-coronavirus.html
Why the Trump Administration’s Coronavirus Response Continues to Raise Concerns
Here's link

 
 
 
Dulay
5.2.108  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.106    4 months ago
Your entire screed is composed of lies, circular arguments and TDS.

Your entire reply is nonresponsive and unfounded.. 

What a joke.

If only your reply was. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.109  Texan1211  replied to  katrix @5.2.100    4 months ago
 can actually understand that - if you can convince yourself that prayer works, you won't feel as helpless when bad things happen if you think some god will grant your wishes like a genie.

I have never met any religious person--no matter what faith--that thinks God grants wishes like a genie.

Where do you meet these folks?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
5.2.110  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.67    4 months ago
Speak for yourself. Like I said, I have a higher expectation and probably a better work ethic to actually do my job when I'm on the clock as opposed to wasting time

Interesting. Are you on the clock now?

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.111  Gordy327  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5.2.110    4 months ago

No.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.112  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.84    4 months ago

I'm saying they are wasting their time praying, as prayer will not cure the Corona virus. And that time can be better spent planning on how to actually deal with the virus. That's their assigned job. Not praying for nonsense.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.113  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.69    4 months ago

All that does is establish a correlation between state of mind and health. That does not establish the efficacy of prayer in having a tangible effect. It might make one feel good. But that's about it. It certainly won't cure disease. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.114  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.68    4 months ago

They don't need to punch a time clock. Or are you not familiar with that vernacular? And for all you know, they can be spending more than 5 min praying. Regardless, if they're working, then they should be working. Simple.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.116  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.112    4 months ago
I'm saying they are wasting their time praying, as prayer will not cure the Corona virus. And that time can be better spent planning on how to actually deal with the virus. That's their assigned job. Not praying for nonsense.

Well, gee, I am real sorry you don't like it.

But since there isn't a single thing you can do about it, it might be wise to learn to live with it.

They may be wasting time praying, they may not be wasting time.

Not your call either way.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.117  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.114    4 months ago
They don't need to punch a time clock. Or are you not familiar with that vernacular? And for all you know, they can be spending more than 5 min praying. Regardless, if they're working, then they should be working. Simple.

Not your call. Learn to live with it.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.118  Gordy327  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.117    4 months ago
Well, gee, I am real sorry you don't like it.

Whether I like it or not is irrelevant. I call it for what it is.

Not your call.

Did I say it was?

They may be wasting time praying, they may not be wasting time.

No, they're wasting time. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.119  Texan1211  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.118    4 months ago
Whether I like it or not is irrelevant. I call it for what it is.

At the very least, be honest. You call it for what YOU see it as. That isn't the same thing.

Did I say it was?

Didn't say you did. But you damn sure made a mountain out of a molehill.

No, they're wasting time. 

No.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.120  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.113    4 months ago
That does not establish the efficacy of prayer in having a tangible effect.

But, According to "Science", it is "Tangible", an actual "Physical Effect" !

Science can suck for some at times.....can't it ? jrSmiley_41_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.121  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.120    4 months ago
But, According to "Science", it is "Tangible", an actual "Physical Effect" !

It's a mental effect. I don't see prayer curing diseases, changing the weather, healing the sick, or whatever else people like to pray for. 

At the very least, be honest. You call it for what YOU see it as. That isn't the same thing.

I have been honest. I called it for what it is.

Didn't say you did. But you damn sure made a mountain out of a molehill.

That might be how YOU see it.

No

Yes.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.122  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.121    4 months ago
I don't see prayer curing diseases

I didn't note  about actually "Curing" at all.

You need to "Read/comprehend" better than you do !

 I don't see prayer ......"healing the sick"

See "Mental attitude" in comment # 5.2.69, as noted by "Science".

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.2.123  Texan1211  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.122    4 months ago

I don't think that is the sort of science everyone likes!

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.124  It Is ME  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.123    4 months ago
I don't think that is the sort of science everyone likes!

I know.....but "What the heck". jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.125  Gordy327  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.122    4 months ago
I didn't note  about actually "Curing" at all.

That's just it. It's not going to do anything. Except possibly make those praying feel better about themselves.

 
 
 
It Is ME
5.2.126  It Is ME  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.125    4 months ago
That's just it. It's not going to do anything. Except possibly make those praying feel better about themselves.

So says You anyway !

https://www.livescience.com/18421-religion-impacts-health.html

"8 Ways Religion Impacts Your Life"

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/the-power-of-positive-thinking

The Johns Hopkins University, The Johns Hopkins Hospital, and Johns Hopkins Health System

"The Power of Positive Thinking"

What is clear, however, is that there is definitely a strong link between “positivity” and health. Additional studies have found that a positive attitude improves outcomes and life satisfaction across a spectrum of conditions—including traumatic brain injury, stroke and brain tumors

 
 
 
Heartland American
5.2.127  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.117    4 months ago

That is the bottom line, isn’t it.  It’s ridic how secularists think they have the right to tell others how to live or how to act.  Well, they don’t.  

 
 
 
Heartland American
5.2.128  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Gordy327 @5.2.118    4 months ago

That’s nice!  Prove it!  Prove your affirmative claim that they are wasting their time.  

 
 
 
Heartland American
5.2.129  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.126    4 months ago

I guess that’s a great conclusion to the thread.  Well done!  👏👍

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.2.130  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @5.2.128    4 months ago

Simple, nothing has been accomplished despite any praying. Perhaps they made themselves feel like they did something. But that would be about it. 

 
 
 
cjcold
5.2.131  cjcold  replied to  It Is ME @5.2.69    4 months ago

Psychology is considered to be a "soft" science. Too many intangibles.

 
 
 
Heartland American
7  seeder  Heartland American    4 months ago

Pence and his commission are doing a good job.  They are being very professional in what they are doing and are making wise decisions.  

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
7.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Heartland American @7    4 months ago

Which decisions would those be?

 
 
 
katrix
7.1.1  katrix  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @7.1    4 months ago

They haven't made any decisions. But certain Trump supporters are allergic to facts, so that doesn't matter to them. They'll just blindly support their orange god no matter what. Trump over country!

 
 
 
Heartland American
7.1.3  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  katrix @7.1.1    4 months ago

Vice President Mike Pence, arriving Thursday at the 3M Innovation Center in Maplewood, described an “all hands on deck effort” to combat the spread of coronavirus, which has alarmed health officials around the world.

Pence expressed confidence about the availability of coronavirus test kits but acknowledged, “We don’t have enough tests today to meet what we anticipate will be the demand going forward.”

“For those who we believe have been exposed, for those who are showing symptoms, we’ve been able to provide the testing,” he added. “But as more Americans take an interest in this or have concerns about this, we want to make sure they have access to a coronavirus test as well, and we’ve made real progress on that in the last several days.”

The vice president’s trip to 3M was part of a cross-country tour in his role leading the White House Corona­virus Task Force. He was met by 3M CEO Mike Roman, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz and other government and industry officials. 3M is a maker of the N95 respirator, a type of face mask used as personal protective equipment against airborne particles.

Pence credited 3M for going to full production level for respiratory masks as the virus started spreading in January. “You are playing a vital role in the health of our nation,” he said. He added that the risk for the average American “remains low” and recounted steps the administration has taken, including travel restrictions and quarantines.

He offered condolences for the 11 U.S. deaths to date but said “the good news is that the vast majority of those who contracted the coronavirus in our country” have gotten treatment and are recovering.

Pence was next scheduled to head to Washington state to speak with officials about the coronavirus. That trip forced him to cancel a campaign event later Thursday in St. Paul with Second Lady Karen Pence.

The vice president’s visit came as Minnesota lawmakers have been holding hearings on the state’s response to a potential regional outbreak of COVID-19, the illness the coronavirus causes. The Minnesota Health Department has asked the Legislature for $25 million in emergency funding in response to the virus, which has spread around the globe from China.

Health Commissioner Jan Malcolm said Thursday that Minnesota’s public health laboratory can conduct tests and has been doing so since Monday. But she added that the state does not yet have the capacity to test everyone who wants to be tested. As Pence departed 3M, he reached out for a handshake with Malcolm, who instead offered an elbow bump to avoid spreading germs.

In Congress, the Senate approved an $8.3 billion emergency spending bill Thursday to combat the new virus, a day after the bill passed the House.

At 3M, Walz used the vice president’s visit to underscore the multilayered approach to confronting the virus.

“The vice president being here speaks to that, of understanding that governors and state public health officials are going to be the ones that are going to have to be administering back so that collaboration is happening,” Walz said.

Although stores have seen a run on face masks in recent weeks, health officials warn that they are intended for health care professionals caring for sick patients and generally not effective in preventing the public from catching coronavirus.

Addressing the “average American,” Pence said unless people are ill, they have no reason to buy a mask. That will mean more are available for patients and health care workers, he added.

“The reality is that despite that we now have cases … the risk to the average healthy American of contracting coronavirus remains low,” Pence said. There will be more cases, he added, but said it seemed to be affecting older populations, noting increased inspections of nursing homes.

“At the president’s direction we’re going to continue to lean into this,” he told reporters.

Accompanying Pence were Stephen Hahn, commissioner for the Food and Drug Administration, Dr. Deborah Birx, White House coronavirus coordinator, and Malcolm. The 3M executives meeting with Pence were Mojdeh Poul, executive vice president for the Health Care Business Group, Michael Vale, executive vice president of the Safety and Industrial Business Group, Denise Rutherford, senior vice president for corporate affairs and Omar Vargas, vice president for global government affairs.   http://m.startribune.com/vice-president-mike-pence-visits-3m-on-coronavirus-tour/568524912/

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1.4  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @7.1.3    4 months ago
“We don’t have enough tests today to meet what we anticipate will be the demand going forward.”

Yet just the day before Pence said that there would be 1 million tests ready to go. 

“For those who we believe have been exposed, for those who are showing symptoms, we’ve been able to provide the testing,” he added.

That is a lie. 

“But as more Americans take an interest in this or have concerns about this, we want to make sure they have access to a coronavirus test as well, and we’ve made real progress on that in the last several days.”

It has nothing to do with Americans taking interest or having concerns. Doctors can't get enough tests to do clinical testing is hospitals all over the country. THAT is a FACT. 

There is a reason why the CDC stopped posting how many the US has tested and being transparent isn't one of them. 

“At the president’s direction we’re going to continue to lean into this,” he told reporters.

Ya, Trump's idea of 'leaning into this' is to name call the Governors who are on the frontlines of this epidemic. 

 
 
 
katrix
8  katrix    4 months ago

Pointing out that praying won't do a thing to stop the coronavirus is hardly getting our panties in a wad.

You, on the other hand, appear close to a meltdown.

 
 
 
Tessylo
9  Tessylo    4 months ago

I just wonder how someone not praying bothers them so damn much.

it is almost as if it is a personal affront to them.

 
 
 
Texan1211
10  Texan1211    4 months ago

I just wonder how someone praying bothers them so damn much.
it is almost as if it is a personal affront to them.

 
 
 
Heartland American
10.1  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Texan1211 @10    4 months ago

No almost about it.  The public expression of our faith is taken by some as a personal affront to the inner core of their being. 

 
 
 
cjcold
10.1.1  cjcold  replied to  Heartland American @10.1    4 months ago

I don't care if you pray, just don't do it out loud.

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @10.1.1    4 months ago
I don't care if you pray, just don't do it out loud.

Sounds like you DO care if you don't want to hear it.

No one is asking you to pray.

People upset over some prayers being said are immature and intolerant.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
10.1.3  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  cjcold @10.1.1    4 months ago
just don't do it out loud

or, what?

 
 
 
1stwarrior
10.1.4  1stwarrior  replied to  cjcold @10.1.1    4 months ago

Oh, you mean like that "Freedom of Speech" thingy???  Don't use the Constitution as your base???

 
 
 
Tessylo
11  Tessylo    4 months ago

Why would someone praying bother anyone?

It doesn't change a damn thing.  Who gives a shit?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
11.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tessylo @11    4 months ago

Look at me! I'm not praying!

 
 
 
Dulay
11.2  Dulay  replied to  Tessylo @11    4 months ago

As someone who has dealt with the 'peer pressure' to participate in group prayer for decades, it bothers me. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
11.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Dulay @11.2    4 months ago

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.  

 
 
 
Dulay
11.2.2  Dulay  replied to  Tessylo @11.2.1    4 months ago

No worries. Just thought your question deserved an answer. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
11.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Dulay @11.2.2    4 months ago

Well it always bothered me when someone said they would pray for me.  Sounds harmless but kind of spiteful too don't you think?  Especially those who don't believe in prayer?

 
 
 
Texan1211
11.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @11.2    4 months ago
As someone who has dealt with the 'peer pressure' to participate in group prayer for decades, it bothers me.

Since I don't see anywhere here anyone asked you to participate in any prayers, what exactly is your point? 

Maybe you should get a different set of peers if they keep pressuring you, especially since you are an adult.

Praying as described here doesn't have any effect on you.

 
 
 
Dulay
11.2.5  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @11.2.4    4 months ago
Since I don't see anywhere here anyone asked you to participate in any prayers, what exactly is your point? 

Since I didn't say anyone did, what is YOURS? 

Oh and BTFW, I thought you were averse to asking a member to answer for something they never said. Hypocritical. 

Maybe you should get a different set of peers if they keep pressuring you, especially since you are an adult.

Perhaps you should recognize that I put 'peer pressure' in apostrophes because it is a manner of speaking. It's a grammatical thingy. 

Praying as described here doesn't have any effect on you.

Where was praying described in this thread Tex? Hint: Nowhere. 

 
 
 
Heartland American
11.2.6  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @11.2.5    4 months ago

The fact is that the people on the corona virus disease commission pray regularly and secular left groups have openly mocked them and by extension other believers for it.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.2.7  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @11.2.6    4 months ago

Perhaps because prayer isn't going to cure Coronavirus. 

 
 
 
Dulay
11.2.8  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @11.2.6    4 months ago
The fact is that the people on the corona virus disease commission pray regularly

You know this HOW Xx? Sure, you can presume that about Trump but the rest of them aren't overt thumpers like he is. 

and secular left groups have openly mocked them

You stated that earlier but you failed to support it. WHAT groups Xx? 

and by extension other believers for it.  

Bullshit. 

 
 
 
Dulay
11.2.9  Dulay  replied to  Dulay @11.2.8    4 months ago

Oops, I meant you could presume that about Pence, Trump doesn't ask for forgiveness so I presume he doesn't ask for grace. 

 
 
 
Heartland American
11.2.10  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @11.2.8    4 months ago

Mike Pence mocked for praying with coronavirus task force at White House - The Christian Post

By  Samuel Smith , CP Reporter 
Vice President Mike Pence meets with the President’s Coronavirus Taskforce Wednesday, February 26, 2020, in his West Wing Office of the White House.  |  Official White House photo by D. Myles Cullen  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.christianpost.com/amp/mike-pence-mocked-for-praying-coronavirus-task-force-white-house.html
 
 
 
Gordy327
11.2.11  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @11.2.10    4 months ago
Mike Pence mocked for praying with coronavirus task force at White House

And deservedly so!

 
 
 
Texan1211
11.2.12  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @11.2.5    4 months ago
Since I didn't say anyone did, what is YOURS? 

I didn't claim you did. My point is that it is rather childish to be bitching about someone saying a few prayers that have absolutely nothing to do with you or has any effect on anyone else.

Oh and BTFW, I thought you were averse to asking a member to answer for something they never said. Hypocritical. 

LMMFAO!!! I merely asked what your point was. That isn't hypocritical at all and it is silly almost beyond words to even suggest such nonsense.

Perhaps you should recognize that I put 'peer pressure' in apostrophes because it is a manner of speaking. It's a grammatical thingy. 

Seems like much more since you suffered for decades!

Where was praying described in this thread Tex? Hint: Nowhere. 

Oops! My bad--I assumed I was dealing with adults who already knew what prayer is whether they do it or believe in it or not.

I certainly won't assume you know anything from now on since you didn't seem to know what we were talking about.

 
 
 
Dulay
11.2.13  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @11.2.12    4 months ago
I didn't claim you did. My point is that it is rather childish to be bitching about someone saying a few prayers that have absolutely nothing to do with you or has any effect on anyone else.

Again, you are asking me to address something that I didn't do or say. I didn't bitch about anyone 'saying a few prayers'. Just stop. 

LMMFAO!!! I merely asked what your point was. That isn't hypocritical at all and it is silly almost beyond words to even suggest such nonsense.

You asked me about a point I did not make Tex. It's all in your head and it IS hypocritical. 

Seems like much more since you suffered for decades!

Where did I say that I "suffered for decades" Tex? Don't try to put words in my mouth in a weak attempt to get me to defend them. 

Oops! My bad--I assumed I was dealing with adults who already knew what prayer is whether they do it or believe in it or not.

If you're pretending to reply as an adult, you should own the fact that your comment wasn't about prayer in general but about "Prayer as described here". 

I certainly won't assume you know anything from now on since you didn't seem to know what we were talking about.

Au contraire, I know exactly what we are talking about and unlike you, I take ownership of what I post.

Prayer wasn't described here Tex. Yet YOU just had to threw in that BS and now want to pretend it was accurate and relevant. Own it.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
11.2.14  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @11.2.13    4 months ago

jrSmiley_90_smiley_image.gif

Oops! My bad--I assumed I was dealing with adults who already knew what prayer is whether they do it or believe in it or not.
I certainly won't assume you know anything from now on since you didn't seem to know what we were talking about.

 
 
 
Heartland American
11.2.15  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Gordy327 @11.2.11    4 months ago

It’s all the militant secularists have because they know they can’t shake our faith in God.  

 
 
 
Dulay
11.2.16  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @11.2.15    4 months ago

Since you claim that's all they've got, WTF are you whining about? 

 
 
 
katrix
11.2.17  katrix  replied to  Dulay @11.2.16    4 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Heartland American
11.2.18  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @11.2.16    4 months ago

I’m not whining.  I’m simply pointing out the facts of life. 

 
 
 
Dulay
11.2.19  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @11.2.18    4 months ago
I’m not whining.  

You whole seed is shining. 

I’m simply pointing out the facts of life. 

There is no evidence of that claim anywhere in this seed. 

 
 
 
Heartland American
11.2.20  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Gordy327 @11.2.11    4 months ago

And here we have the secular humanist perspective in their own words.  They are about mocking believers to their faces for showing their faith where others can see it. 

 
 
 
Heartland American
11.2.21  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Texan1211 @11.2.14    4 months ago

👏 bravo!  Well said and right on. 👍

 
 
 
Heartland American
11.2.22  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Dulay @11.2.19    4 months ago

My whole seed is all about shining a light 💡 on the secularists persecuting Christians for their faith by openly mock that faith.

 
 
 
devangelical
11.2.23  devangelical  replied to  Heartland American @11.2.22    4 months ago

if religious extremists don't wish to be mocked for saying ignorant BS, they can say it in their safe places, church or home. ezpz

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.2.24  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @11.2.22    4 months ago

I defy you to demonstrate where "secularists" are persecuting Christians! Mocking or challenging Christian beliefs or claims is not persecution. Not by a long shot and you know it!

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.2.25  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @11.2.20    4 months ago

Whine whine whine. A broken record. Guess what! Challenging your claims is not mocking, even if your claims deserve to be mocked. Some of them are quite far out there and defy all rationality. But if you think you're being "mocked" or don't like it, then stop posting your BS for all to see. Others have as much right to challenge or "mock" your beliefs as you do to express them. 

 
 
 
Dulay
11.2.26  Dulay  replied to  Heartland American @11.2.22    4 months ago

Yet even though you've claimed there are 'groups' and you use plurals ad nauseam, all you and the seed has been able to come up with is ONE PERSON. 

 
 
 
devangelical
11.2.27  devangelical  replied to  Gordy327 @11.2.24    4 months ago

any legislation passed or SCOTUS decisions based on religious dogma in the future, and I will happily become an active participant in persecuting fake tians.

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.2.28  Gordy327  replied to  devangelical @11.2.27    4 months ago

I'll settle for challenges to any such legislation passed, as it would be blatantly unconstitutional. 

 
 
 
devangelical
11.2.29  devangelical  replied to  Gordy327 @11.2.28    4 months ago

the Constitution doesn't seem to matter much to these f'n dominionists anymore.

 
 
 
devangelical
11.2.31  devangelical  replied to    4 months ago

too late. that trash can sits in the oval office today.

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.2.32  Gordy327  replied to  devangelical @11.2.29    4 months ago
the Constitution doesn't seem to matter much to these f'n dominionists anymore.

Did it ever? I've heard dominionists actually say the Constitution should be replaced with the bible.

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.2.33  Gordy327  replied to    4 months ago
The constitution will find it's way to a trash can in my life time.

If these Christian dominionists have their way it will be.

 
 
 
Heartland American
11.2.34  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Gordy327 @11.2.32    4 months ago

There are no dominionists on this site.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.2.35  Gordy327  replied to  Heartland American @11.2.34    4 months ago
There are no dominionists on this site.  

I didn't specifically say there were. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if there were those who fit the description.

 
 
 
Heartland American
11.2.36  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  devangelical @11.2.31    4 months ago

No.  Obama was trying to run the constitution through the shredder and Trump stopped him cold. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
12  Texan1211    4 months ago

The anti-religious zealots have made their presence known.

Big whoop de doo.

One might think it was the end of the world that someone in government prayed.

LMMFAO!

 
 
 
Heartland American
12.1  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Texan1211 @12    4 months ago

Well said.  The fever pitch rage of the secularists against all expression of religion and religious thoughts including prayer is noted.  We will not be silenced in the face of it.  It’s great we still have citizens and leaders praying and seeking God’s blessings for our exceptional nation.

 
 
 
Texan1211
13  Texan1211    4 months ago

jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

Let's all do our part into making a mountain out of a molehill.

 
 
 
Tacos!
13.1  Tacos!  replied to  Texan1211 @13    4 months ago

Some people have nothing if they can't have outrage.

 
 
 
Texan1211
13.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Tacos! @13.1    4 months ago
Some people have nothing if they can't have outrage.

Shouldn't that really be "faux-poutrage"?

 
 
 
Heartland American
13.1.2  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Tacos! @13.1    4 months ago

There is no outrage like that of secularists toward pro life Christians who express ourselves according to our beliefs and pray.  

 
 
 
Heartland American
13.1.3  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Texan1211 @13.1.1    4 months ago

Exactly! It should indeed be just that.  

 
 
 
Heartland American
13.2  seeder  Heartland American  replied to  Texan1211 @13    4 months ago

Let them dig in!

 
 
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