Left’s outrage on Pence leading coronavirus response is latest example of religious intolerance
It is important to expose and confront the bigotry of the secular humanists against believers and to show that believers have a right to be in the public square and express our beliefs. This article is right on. AOC and others on the secular left have baselessly attacked Pence for leading the government response to corona virus.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Religious intolerance comes in many forms and manifests in degrees large and small, but the left’s response to President Trump’s appointment of Vice President Mike Pence to lead the nation’s handling of the coronavirus is the latest serving of demagoguery against people of faith.
In announcing Mr. Pence’s role, President Trump cited the vice president’s executive experience managing public health in Indiana, where he previously served as governor.
“He’s got a certain talent for this,” Trump said.
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., a reliable critic of the administration and all things conservative, served up early objection, falsely stating, “Mike Pence literally does not believe in science. It is utterly irresponsible to put him in charge of US coronavirus response as the world sits on the cusp of a pandemic.”
The Democrat congresswoman is just wrong. Of course, Mr. Pence believes in science and, in fact, his belief in science helps to inform his policy positions.
Other critics quickly pounced, blaming Pence for an HIV outbreak in the Hoosier state during his gubernatorial tenure. At the time, there were those who favored a needle exchange program to combat the virus, suggesting such a plan would reduce the spread of infection. Mr. Pence objected, stating, “I don’t believe effective anti-drug policy involves handing out drug paraphernalia.”
To say an objection to handing out needles to drug dealers is anti-science is foolish in the extreme.
But opponents of Mr. Pence’s newly announced role to help combat the coronavirus are even raising objections that predate his time in Indiana’s governor’s mansion. As a congressman in 2011, Vice President Pence voted to cut funding to Planned Parenthood, a move that abortion advocates claim caused abortion clinics in Indiana to close, thus preventing women from receiving HIV screenings.
Such a dubious claim is impossible to verify, especially since Planned Parenthood isn’t the only facility to provide screening services.
ABC’s late-night comedian Jimmy Kimmel also piled on, sarcastically quipping, “Why is Mike Pence in charge? What is his plan to stop the virus? Abstinence?”
Others even criticized Mr. Pence’s call for prayer during the HIV outbreak in Indiana.
At the root of all these scurrilous charges against Vice President Pence is a deep-seated religious intolerance and a sad desire to politicize a very serious situation.
It’s true that throughout his long and honorable career in public service, Mr. Pence has allowed his faith to inform his perspective and shape his actions. What’s interesting, though, is that the same people who criticize him for doing so raise no objections when people on the left do.
Prior to running for the presidency in 2008, then-Senator Barack Obama famously declared:
“Secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So, to say that men and women should not inject their 'personal morality' into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.”
President Obama was widely applauded for correlating faith with public service -- but now that a socially conservative person is in a position of governmental authority, his faith commitments are unallowable.
Do our friends on the left not see the glaring hypocrisy?
President Trump has also been criticized for appointing Mr. Pence to lead up the virus response because the vice president doesn’t have medical credentials. Never mind that Mr. Pence immediately tapped Debbie Birx, a world-renowned expert on infectious disease.
Not only do people of faith and those with deeply held-religious convictions deserve a seat at the table -- but I would argue they’re very often the most qualified and most appropriate people to hold such roles.
That’s because in the history of global pandemics and other health emergencies, it’s very often been people of faith who have sacrificially and competently served in humanitarian relief roles. Like Vice President Pence, their faith commands them to rush in when everyone else is inclined to run out.
It would be good and appropriate for all people of faith to pray for the vice president as he steps into this critical role. He is a good man who loves our country and, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, he deserves our support for this assignment. May we be one country with one voice, praying for containment of this deadly virus, even invoking the words of Jesus Himself who said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.”
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“Secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So, to say that men and women should not inject their 'personal morality' into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.”
President Obama was widely applauded for correlating faith with public service -- but now that a socially conservative person is in a position of governmental authority, his faith commitments are unallowable.
Do our friends on the left not see the glaring hypocrisy?
President Trump has also been criticized for appointing Mr. Pence to lead up the virus response because the vice president doesn’t have medical credentials. Never mind that Mr. Pence immediately tapped Debbie Birx, a world-renowned expert on infectious disease.
Not only do people of faith and those with deeply held-religious convictions deserve a seat at the table -- but I would argue they’re very often the most qualified and most appropriate people to hold such roles.
That’s because in the history of global pandemics and other health emergencies, it’s very often been people of faith who have sacrificially and competently served in humanitarian relief roles. Like Vice President Pence, their faith commands them to rush in when everyone else is inclined to run out.
It would be good and appropriate for all people of faith to pray for the vice president as he steps into this critical role. He is a good man who loves our country and, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, he deserves our support for this assignment.
... a constituency of 2 that can't vote. some deity, and his son that eventually become yard art over of his socialist ideology.
trump just put the albino thumper on the election ejection seat. if the pandemic goes sideways, pence goes under the bus and out the door as the incompetent patsy, and trump gets off the hook with clean hands in the eyes of his legion of brainless sycophants.
In the case of Pence, the intolerance is of his incompetence.
To say that the former congressman, governor, and current Vice President is incompetent is simply ridiculous and is a symptom of TDS.
“In religion and politics people’s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.”
― Mark Twain
I LIVE in Indiana Xx. I KNOW what an utter cluster fuck Mike Pence was as Governor of this state. Pence's incompetence started long before he attached his lips onto Trump ass.
You do realize that stupid Instagram links are meaningless and a cop out, right?
No they’re not. They make very good points and provide useful info on the related topic here.
Not to mention further evidence of SLS (Sore Loser Syndrome)!
How are you so fucking sure this alleged SLS outweighs my personal experience of living under Governor Pence's incompetence? Please be specific.
So you disagree with President Obama and his saying secularists are wrong quote from the seed repeated in post #1?
Yes, there’s always that.
Most people in your state disagree with you about him.
False.
Spare me your unfounded proclamations. Pence's approval rating in Indiana in spring of 2016 was 40%.
I'll bet his less than stellar record regarding public health matters probably contributed to such a dismal rating. And this is the guy who heading up a task force about something that affects public health? Unbelievable.
That’s for sure.
He was favored for re election before Trump picked him to be VP instead. Pence did well along with Trump at the news conference today
Again, another uninformed proclamation.
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[Stop using links for political advertising. This is my last warning.]
Holy crackers, CH4P, the only 'religious intolerance' rises from the religious. These folk hate anything that stands in the way of their 'divine intolerance' toward others.
intolerance is the domain of the secular progressive.
Labeling and/or creative name-calling of entire political groups, ideological, religious, cultural, sexual identity / orientation, etc. groups (i.e. Rethuglicans, Libtards, etc), is forbidden.
It's a direct quote from the CoC.
Well for one thing, both YOU and Xx agreed to abide by that code.
Since my comment is verbatim from that code, it isn't bullshit.
No. It is a matter of documented fact.
Obtuse.
It's entirely appropriate that the Vice President should be coordinating the effort and liaising with the various health agencies, the White House, and their opposite numbers in other countries who are all fighting to contain or treat this menace. The VP would be a good pick no matter who held the office.
The immediate attacks on Pence in this context are shameful and clearly rooted in political tribalism. There is a serious public health crisis happening and these idiots want to score political points. I hear a lot of screaming and yelling about Trump and Pence related to coronavirus, but so far, none of it has involved legitimate critiques.
I would think an actual infectious disease doctor or an expert in epidemiology or microbiology would be a far better choice to head up a task force dealing with an infectious disease. You know, an actual scientist.
Yes, so perhaps someone who deals in public health or medicine should be in charge. Not some mere politician who has no such credentials.
So a total lack of qualification to lead a health related task force is not an adequate criticism? Usually, when someone is hired or assigned to do a job, they ideally have some qualifications associated with what they must do or deal with. The Surgeon General would have been a much better choice. Choosing Pence seems more like Trump was giving him something to do.
As an example of how LOW my expectations of the Administration have become, I would accept someone that at least acknowledged scientific expertise.
Instead of mere opinions or even religious delusion.
Not at all. We're talking about someone who needs to coordinate various agencies, and talk to politicians, and officials who control resources - both in this country and in other countries. The VP is great for that. If the medical people want something, who is likely to get the attention of Congress or the president quickest? A doctor? Or the Vice President?
VPs are often put in charge of complex projects like this. That doesn't mean they need to do anything related to the core task. It's why VP Lyndon Johnson - not a rocket scientist - could be in charge of NASA.
Infectious disease doctors are on the team, but they don't need to lead it. At the press conference the other day, we heard from Dr. Anne Schuchat, Principal Deputy Director at the CDC.
Meet CDC's Anne Schuchat, A Real-Life Virus Hunter Stopping Deadly Disease In Its Tracks
No. It demonstrates ignorance of the complexity of an undertaking like this. Frankly, I don't think it is genuinely rooted in a reasoned analysis, but more in political tribalism. Consider some of the complexity of coordinating the response effort:
Update: Public Health Response to the Coronavirus Disease 2019 Outbreak — United States, February 24, 2020
Is an infectious disease doctor or even the Surgeon General the person best suited to liaise with Homeland Security and China and DOD and HHS and the State Department? I doubt it. They might be, but declaring that the Vice President is wrong for that job is pretty silly.
What makes you think that Pence will listen to CDC's recommendations any more than he did in Indiana? It took Pence ovar a month to be FORCED to allow the needle exchange program.
Had you been watching the on topic news conference you would see that he and the rest of the group are doing s great job. As the President said, the hoax is democrats blaming his administration and our researchers for the virus.
I hope all the critics saw that very fine and comforting informative news conference that just concluded.
Trump only appoints people that have no expertise in whatever field or task he appoints them to. This way he has people who don't know shit just like him.
Not only do people of faith and those with deeply held-religious convictions deserve a seat at the table -- but I would argue they’re very often the most qualified and most appropriate people to hold such roles.
That’s because in the history of global pandemics and other health emergencies, it’s very often been people of faith who have sacrificially and competently served in humanitarian relief roles. Like Vice President Pence, their faith commands them to rush in when everyone else is inclined to run out.
It would be good and appropriate for all people of faith to pray for the vice president as he steps into this critical role. He is a good man who loves our country and, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, he deserves our support for this assignment. May we be one country with one voice, praying for containment of this deadly virus, even invoking the words of Jesus Himself who said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.”
No one is blaming Trump for the virus Xx. They are blaming Trump for his incompetent handling of our reaction to the virus. Trump is whistling past the graveyard and demands that we all to join him.
This has nothing to do with his religion. It has everything to do with that he has no expertise in the field. If he does manage to pull this off, I will be the first to say Hail Jebus.
Why waste time praying? I'm more interested in having people learn FACTS about how best to protect themselves, how to avoid spreading disease, and in having our government make informed, factual decisions rather than an idiot like Trump blathering about how he knows nothing about viruses or vaccinations.
You know, things that will actually save lives.
TDS is real. These people watch him show how clueless he is - and they lie and claim he was acting informed.
If it's so fucking clear to you Tacos! how about you cite evidence that the criticism CAN NOT be based on anything but 'political tribalism'.
From our experience here in Indiana, Pence's reaction to a 'serious public health crisis' was based on scoring political points and directly led to the larges rural outbreak of HIV in the country. THAT is how Pence 'leads' during a 'serious public health crisis'.
False.
There have been a plethora of 'legitimate critiques' in the last couple of weeks. MINE is a legitimate critique. The HHS whistleblower's is a legitimate critique. Sen. Kennedy's was a legitimate critique. The House Appropriation's committee's was a legitimate critique. Congressman John Garamendi's critique is a legitimate critique. The City of Costa Mesa's is a legitimate critique.
How about you cite evidence that it's not? Where is the evidence - requiring an analysis of the job to be done - that the VP is the wrong person for the job?
No, there haven't. You're welcome to try and make one, but I don't think you'll be able to.
The democrat leaning critics of Trump, Pence, and our national efforts to fight the virus are the hoax the President refers to
the president and his lackeys are the joax
You made the assertion, you have the burden of proof. Please proceed.
You've equivocated in other comments. I am talking specifically about Pence. There is documented evidence from the CDC and other sources about Pence's incompetence during the HIV crisis in rural Indiana. If you're actually interested in reviewing the facts, look it up. I LIVED through it.
Yes there have and I've already cited multiple examples. There are many more.
You can have your own opinion but you can't have your own facts.
I already have. I could not care less whether you acknowledge or accept that fact.
The hundreds of people that contracted HIV in southern Indiana because of Pence's incompetence aren't a hoax.
I'm the only one who has supplied facts. All we have from you is your biased opinion.
Yes, a link from CDC that is conveniently dated prior to the HHS whistleblower allegations were made public.
My opinion of Pence isn't based on bias, it's based on FACTS and experience. The other examples that I cited are easily verifiable. Again, not based on bias but on good faith reactions of what Trump is doing in their community.
Maybe instead of going to CPAC or fundraisers, Pence should be going to the west coast and talking to the people on the ground dealing with the shit show his boss created there.
BTW, the CDC was witness to what went down with the HHS in CA. If what the whistleblower says is true, the CDC SHOULD have thrown a red flag and demanded that the HHS employees be properly quarantined. If the HHS refused, the CDC should have informed the County government and the Governor of CA about the threat immediately.
What a great example of how stupid these politically motivated criticisms are. The date and the whistleblower are entirely irrelevant. But you present this "fact" as if it means something.
Now you want to say what the CDC should be doing. Your expertise is stunning!
You did? So you were a heroine addict that shared needles? Because that was the major contributing factor for the spread of HIV in rural Indiana. It's not Pence's fault that dope addicts don't care about there own health.
Now it is Pences fault because some dumbass, inbred Hoosier hillbilly's shared needles. God I love America.
I'm betting that both Pence and "people on the west coast" have telephones. But you know, if you think it's critical to spend taxpayer dollars and burn some more fuel, by all means make your case.
I'm sorry. I have to stop to laugh.
Pence's boss is Trump. Are you making a claim that Trump is either causing Coronavirus or compelling people to work without protective gear? Have you seen some kind of executive order, forbidding people to wear masks or something?
I'm sorry. I have to laugh some more.
Like Trump said the last 24 hours, the disease is a serious but seemingly manageable situation. The democrats response to this foreign originated disease blaming Trump and Pence and our federal researchers for it is indeed nothing but a sick hoax.
Your unfounded opinion is noted.
Right because it was a so much better use or jet fuel to fly down to Florida for a fundraiser. Ya, laugh it up.
Well gee, any review of Trump's 'Obama sucks' campaign will find plenty of Trump tweets claiming that Obama was personally responsible for the Ebola cases in the US.
I know.
I don't find hypocrisy funny.
My cousin lives just outside of Austin, IN.
If you have no kinship with your fellow Michiganders, that's on you.
It sure as fuck IS Pence's fault that many more people were infected because he refused to listen to the CDC.
Because your cousin lives in Indiana you LIVED through it...
I live in Indiana too KDMichigan, 5 minutes from the Michigan border in fact.
Soooooo. people who have unprotected sex or share needles for drug use getting AIDS is Pence's fault?
TDS in its finest form.
Well golly gee willikers Dulay why did you feel compelled to throw you cousin in the mix? You are the one that felt justified in living threw it because your cousin lives there. Shades of how you are a farmer because your grampy had a vegetable garden....
Because the CDC is all knowing? Kind of like how the 'son of a bitch' Obama dropped the ball on the swine flu?
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People were addicted to opiods. They are going to inject, did not have access to clean needles, so they were spreading HIV. A real world problem that you must deal with. Blathering about people's bad choices is moronic and useless. Pence's religious beliefs at first caused him to resist the proven effective clean needle program, and then as HIV spread, he allowed it with restrictions that made it far less effective than it could have been. So yes, he is directly responsible for the spread of the epidemic. This is why you put people with scientific knowledge in charge of real world problems rather than ideologues.
You do realize that Trump had the people who reported real information to Congress removed and replaced with Pence so he could control the message to protect himself, don't you? You do realize that this is exactly what the Chinese administration did, for exactly the same reason, don't you? Look how that worked out for the Chinese.
First of all HIV isn't AIDS.
Secondly, those 'who have unprotected sex or share needles for drug use' were STILL Pence's constituents and he was responsible for mitigating a threat to their well being.
The CDC put the science in front of Pence and he IGNORED it. PERIOD, full stop.
Thirdly, is it your posit that it isn't the responsibility of leadership to address drug addiction in our communities? I guess you support the elimination of the billions we spend in AA, NA and other related programs.
So any critique of Pence is TDS? Are you actually claiming that Trump would accept any responsibility for assigning an incompetent like Pence to address this medical crisis? That's laughable.
I stated in a prior post in this thread that I live in Indiana KD. My cousin does too and is in the health care field. Even though I live in NW Indiana, I was well informed about the cluster fuck that Pence created in Southern Indiana.
I needed no 'justification' for living THROUGH it, I paid Pence's salary. I contacted my Representatives, both state and federal and shared the information my cousin passed on to me.
Shades of your inability to stay on topic and address the issue in front of you. Well done.
Well golly gee willikers KD, I'm pretty fucking sure that they're too busy with epidemiology to be 'all knowing' on astrophysics. /s
How did Obama drop the ball on the swine flu? Please be specific.
How is taking notice of your comment pretentions Tex? Would you rather your comments be ignored?
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What’s really sad now is that there are secular progressive leftist groups out there that are openly mocking Pence and the commission because they pray before starting their meetings. The bigoted intolerance is unreal and sad for our country. It’s not as If there was no precedent for national leaders praying during a serious situation.
You can go to a pharmacy and buy needles and syringes without a prescription, but you are exposing yourself as a addict. Anonymous clean needle programs work. Pence, by requiring registration, provided a second unacceptable method of obtaining clean needles. They actually interviewed a white, suburban housewife who didn't want her neighbors to know about her addiction; now she has HIV.
If you're charged with designing an efficient plane and you find your engineers fussing about gravity, you will be having a WTF moment. Gravity exists, addicts exist, pointing out either is just noise.
Nowhere in my post do I blame Pence for the existence of addicts, or excuse addicts for their predicament. I blame Pence for ignoring subject matter experts, making a crippling modification to a program that's been around for many decades, thus fueling the spread of HIV.
What's sad is our elected officials waste time praying rather than doing something constructive, to have an actual tangible effect. Wishful thinking doesn't get anything done.
Because it's a waste of time. They can pray on their own time. When they're on the clock, they should be doing their jobs. That's certainly not an unreasonable expectation.
WhI cares? It's still not doing their job. Not doing one's job does not help job performance. If they want a job praying, they can be priests. Otherwise, they're wasting time.
What lead you to the unfounded conclusion that my criticism was politically motivated? I posted a fact and the information from the whistleblower directly addresses the 'bang up' job that the CDC and the Trump team is doing.
So you don't think that the FACT that the HHS sent untrained and unqualified people to address an infectious disease crisis means anything. Got ya.
It never ceases to amaze me how some here will defend anything and everything that Trump does, even now when lives are at stake.
I'm not surprised by your reaction since it's common sense and morally responsible.
Again, irrelevant. So how much time needs to pass before it becomes an "issue?" I guess I have higher expectations when it comes to people doing their jobs.
Since you have already decided my conclusion was unfounded, your question would not seem to be an honest inquiry.
You have made no connection demonstrating that anything the whistleblower reported on is connected to something Pence or Trump did. That's what this seed is about and it's what this thread is about. Thus, your criticism of Pence or Trump in this context is the thing that is unfounded. There is literally no foundation to support your conclusion that Pence or Trump are at fault for what happened.
I asked you to make that specific connection and you have made no attempt to do so. Again, that is a sign that your criticisms must be politically motivated.
No, it doesn't mean that Trump or Pence have done something wrong. It means - at most - someone at HHS may have done something wrong. Right now, we have very limited information.
Clearly you don't. Your rants are so disconnected from the topic or anything I have written, that you don't "got" shit.
It never ceases to amaze me how freely you engage in your dishonest straw man attacks. Trump hasn't done anything in the context of this story that requires defending. And, in fact, I have made no attempt to defend him because it's not relevant.
What lead you to it IS an honest inquiry. Please proceed.
That's fucking hilarious. You and your fellow travelers blamed Obama if someone in the Executive branch farted but you what to claim that Trump's cluster fuck isn't his fault.
BTFW, Trump nominated Azar, a lobbyist, to head HHS. There's your connection.
Pffft.
Which comment was that in?
Again, unfounded.
There lies the rub Tacos!. Y'all insisted for 8 years that it was all Obama's fault. Hell, Trump is STILL doing it. But suddenly, it's 'someone', anyone but Trump or Pence.
That's what happens when Trump and Pence put a gag order on officials.
Bullshit.
You JUST said this:
So while that may not be an outright defense, it sure as hell looks like a pass. You also claimed that there was no legitimate criticism of Trump's actions when there is a TON. Ignoring it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
If I even look at something on Amazon, I see ads for it on all my devices at half the places I go. She would never know when one might pop up. To think that Amazon purchases are anonymous is naive.
But this is the real problem:
Out-of-group sympathy is not an attribute of many conservatives. They support SNAP reductions even though 18% of children don't have adequate food. The say "want health insurance, get a job" when the people without health insurance are the ones who have jobs, unfortunately for them, poorly paying ones. If you have no income, Medicaid is available.
Addiction is usually caused by stress the person is experiencing. The gov't was terrified of the returning Vietnam soldiers. Almost a quarter were addicted to heroine. But, about 97% of these 'addicts' simply stopped using when the came back. We have 70,000 white people dying of drug overdoses in the midwest every year. They are experiencing the same thing blacks experienced when manufacturing moved out of the cities in the 80s. Without sympathy there will be no action, without action huge groups are condemned to misery.
Oh look! You want to attack me for something I haven't done. Another straw man. How unsurprising, considering the source.
That's still not a connection to the alleged events. Where is your cause and effect? All I see is political partisanship and emotion. No facts anywhere that show Azar directed or allowed people to do the things alleged, and certainly no facts showing that Trump knew, should have known, or directed any such thing to happen. It's pure political fantasy, aka bullshit.
@5.2.13, but I expect you will continue to ignore your obligation to support your absurd claims with actual evidence.
I haven't given anyone a pass because you haven't demonstrated anything to give a pass for.
You have presented none.
No surprise that you're not answering the question nor contributing anything of value.
Funny that you consider his wanting lives to be saved to be "anti-religious venom". Prayer has been proven to not work - so we would appreciate it if these people do their damn jobs, using science, so they can save lives.
No surprise your pro-religious bias is showing, not to mention you still haven't answered the question. But if there are problems to work on, then time should be spent working on them. Not wasting time praying about a problem, as that won't solve anything.
The "Flu" still kills more people than this "Coronavirus" has.
When doe the "Common Cold" (A Coronavirus) get "THE CURE" ?
"Science" still ...… has it's own issues !
Praying for a solution to a potentially deadly virus is ludicrous too. And there is no empirical evidence to support any claim that prayer "worked."
At least science works towards results. Not wishful thinking like prayer.
The flu has a much lower mortality rate than the coronavirus.
And there isn't one "common cold." Do some research - it's easy to find out.
There is no reason to be willfully ignorant of such things.
Actually, I'm pretty certain that prayers do not work. There is lots of evidence supporting my position, and none at all which suggests that it works.
If you think for one second that spending a few minutes praying is going to make any difference, then you probably shouldn't engage with me. I'm not a fan of delusions.
Past Coronaviruses....or just this one ?
"And there isn't one "common cold."
Duh !
Do some research - it's easy to find out.
Still no Cure, according to my research !
"There is no reason to be willfully ignorant of such things."
An "Assumption" on your part ?
Depends on if "Open Mind" comes into play with you.
Both have their "Positives".
If you actually care, then it seems to be you making mountains out of molehills, as you say. And what's "more than a few minutes" exactly? How vague.
As for your Muslim question: no! No accommodation should be made. If a meeting is scheduled at a set time time, then that is the time, period. As for "a few minutes" making any difference, yes it does. A "few minutes" here or a "few minutes" there, presumably everyday while on the clock adds up. Eventually to hours, possibly days. Geez, if I clock in at work everyday and then tell my boss I need to pray about work before actually doing anything, id probably get fired, and rightfully so.
I'm open to evidence. Not personal biases or wishful thinking.
Speak for yourself. Like I said, I have a higher expectation and probably a better work ethic to actually do my job when I'm on the clock as opposed to wasting time praying, which doesnt realistically accomplish anything.
Evidence of ….. maybe …… THIS ?
A positive attitude on life could help you to bounce back from the challenges of ill health, suggests a new study.
An optimistic attitude can do wonders for patients' recovery, according to researchers who reviewed 16 studies that looked at patients' attitudes toward health. The studies spanned 30 years and looked at patients' attitudes after surgery. The review appeared in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.
"In each case the better a patient's expectations about how they would do after surgery or some health procedure, the better they did," said author Donald Cole, of the Institute for Work and Health in Toronto.
Across a wide range of clinical conditions, from lower back pain to heart surgery, patients who felt they would do well in recovery did, according to Cole. Patients who were scared or pessimistic about their recovery did not recover as quickly as the optimists or as well.
"Less pain [after surgery] was directly associated with better expectations, positive expectations," Cole said.
Psychologists say that putting on a brave face works even for serious complaints such as arthritis, diabetes and heart conditions.
Religion does make folks optimistic with life !
Psychology is considered a science , because it utilizes scientific methodology for devising treatments and measuring outcomes
Studies have been done which provide evidence that they do not work. What people around the world choose to believe is up to them - not everyone is interested in evidence. Some people need their delusions.
And I suggested that you not engage with me - apparently you didn't bother reading what I actually wrote.
Coming from the person who just suggested I not engage with him/her
Hilarious.
See comment 5.2.69 !
Pointing out that praying won't do a thing to stop the coronavirus is hardly getting our panties in a wad.
You, on the other hand, appear close to a meltdown.
Before you jump in with your idiotic emojis, perhaps you should have read the article.
It is claiming that we should pray for Pence so that he does a good job. And that won't do a damn thing to make him more competent, to stop the spread of this disease, or to develop a vaccine.
Your link to how prayer (like meditation) can have a calming influence on the person doing it is completely irrelevant.
I did.
Stop "Assuming" ….. as you do constantly !
"It is claiming that we should pray for Pence so that he does a good job. And that won't do a damn thing to make him more competent, to stop the spread of this disease, or to develop a vaccine."
"Positive" attitudes aren't to your liking ?
Only "Certain" Science is something to fall on the sword over for some.
Salary or not, they're paid to do a job. Not waste time.
I really do know what I say ! I don't need your help.
They look more towards "What Could Be". I think they call that type of "Science"....."Hypothetical".
"Positive Thinking" is the "Lefts" …… "Vampire Cross". Too much "positive" in this country, only hurts their agenda.
Actually, there are people out there who pray INSTEAD of taking actual action to fix things or to heal things. Look at Pence, praying while people were getting HIV rather than taking any actions.
I don't give a crap if delusional people want to believe there is a god who grants their wishes, but it's ridiculous when they announce it as if that's actually going to make a difference. It may make them feel more positive, but it doesn't do squat for the people they're praying for.
Really? Never claimed that Obama was responsible for the actions of the IRS or the DHS or the CBP or the FBI or Hillary Clinton or Eric Holder or or or? Never voted up a comment from one of your fellow travelers that did so?
Oh and BTFW, you have been accusing me of something I haven't done for days now. Shouldn't you hold yourself to your own standards?
Pointing our your ideological hypocrisy isn't a strawman.
"Taunting is purposely trying to anger another member. Bullying is forcing oneself on another member by being personally offensive, abusive, threatening or harassing."
Trump chose Azar. That is the CAUSE and EFFECT of incompetence at HHS. Trump also fired the entire NSC task force that was stood up to hit the ground running on just the type of threat that COVID-19 presents to the country.
CDC budget request justifications:
2018:
The fiscal year (FY) 2018 President’s Budget request for CDC and ATSDR includes a total funding level of $6,037,243,000 in discretionary budget authority and the Prevention and Public Health Fund (PPHF). This is an overall decrease of $1,222,431,000 below the FY 2017 Annualized Continuing Resolution (CR) level. The FY 2018 budget request includes a number of programmatic reductions and eliminations, while maintaining key priorities that will allow CDC to advance its core public health mission.
2019:
The fiscal year (FY) 2019 budget request for CDC and ATSDR includes a total funding level of $5,722,755,000 in discretionary budget authority and PHS Evaluation Funds. This is $1,372,185,000 below the FY 2018 Annualized Continuing Resolution (CR) level. The FY 2019 budget request maintains a number of programmatic reductions and eliminations proposed in the FY 2018 President’s Budget.
2020:
This request is $763,242,000 below the FY 2019 Enacted level. The FY 2020 request carries forward several proposed reductions and eliminations from the FY 2019 President’s Budget.
Each year the CDC, based on Trump's budgets has REDUCED and ELIMINATED programs and overall spending for the CDC.
Some here may be especially interested that the 2017 Obama budget included $16 million for "Good Health and Wellness in Indian Country" and Trump ZEROED that program out of his budget. That's just ONE of the programs that they zeroed out.
That's YOUR shortfall, not mine.
It is a FACT that Azar is the Secretary of HHS and ordered Administration for Children and Families employees, NONE of whom have medical expertise, to respond to a infectious disease crisis.
It is a FACT that a whistleblower came forward and filed a complaint with HHS/OSC.
It is a FACT that the whistleblower has a lawyer from a reputable firm.
It is a FACT that because it is a CRIME to knowingly file a false complaint, no reputable lawyer would allow their client to file a whistleblower compliant without first ensuring that the whistleblower's allegations were credible.
It is a FACT that the HHS did not and has not denied anything contained in the whistleblower complaint.
It is a FACT that HHS has stated that they are conducting an investigation of what protocols and procedures were followed. In short, a month later, the HHS is pretending that they DO NOT KNOW what went down.
Pffft.
Nope, you did NOT ask me to make a specific connection to anything in 5.2.13.
Nor did I make any 'absurd claims' in the comment that you replied to in 5.2.13. YOU asked absurd hyperbolic questions, neither of which had anything to do with the content of my 5.2.7 comment.
In short, I have no 'obligation' to play your game.
Oh but you have and denying it doesn't make it less true.
That is a lie.
Makes me think of the pray the gay away crap.
Never once worked.
Nutz only goes so far, for so long. The "Jig" is up....seeeeee !
What's …… "The case" ?
Who said anything about anything being "A Secret" ?
Yep. Neither has praying for anything else. But some people have a hard time accepting reality. I can actually understand that - if you can convince yourself that prayer works, you won't feel as helpless when bad things happen if you think some god will grant your wishes like a genie.
Which 'secular progressive leftist groups' are those Xx? Please cite them.
You never know, Krishna, being female, could answer their prayer.
Not to mention that most people actually like the idea of having health care, and think a flawed plan like the ACA is better than no plan at all. When a bunch of uninsured people have to spend days in the hospital, they'll probably start thinking harder about which party cares more about making sure they have access to health care.
Your entire screed is composed of lies, circular arguments and TDS. What a joke.
Your entire reply is nonresponsive and unfounded..
If only your reply was.
Interesting. Are you on the clock now?
No.
I'm saying they are wasting their time praying, as prayer will not cure the Corona virus. And that time can be better spent planning on how to actually deal with the virus. That's their assigned job. Not praying for nonsense.
All that does is establish a correlation between state of mind and health. That does not establish the efficacy of prayer in having a tangible effect. It might make one feel good. But that's about it. It certainly won't cure disease.
They don't need to punch a time clock. Or are you not familiar with that vernacular? And for all you know, they can be spending more than 5 min praying. Regardless, if they're working, then they should be working. Simple.
Whether I like it or not is irrelevant. I call it for what it is.
Did I say it was?
No, they're wasting time.
But, According to "Science", it is "Tangible", an actual "Physical Effect" !
Science can suck for some at times.....can't it ?
It's a mental effect. I don't see prayer curing diseases, changing the weather, healing the sick, or whatever else people like to pray for.
I have been honest. I called it for what it is.
That might be how YOU see it.
Yes.
I didn't note about actually "Curing" at all.
You need to "Read/comprehend" better than you do !
I don't see prayer ......"healing the sick"
See "Mental attitude" in comment # 5.2.69, as noted by "Science".
I know.....but "What the heck".
That's just it. It's not going to do anything. Except possibly make those praying feel better about themselves.
So says You anyway !
"8 Ways Religion Impacts Your Life"
The Johns Hopkins University, The Johns Hopkins Hospital, and Johns Hopkins Health System
"The Power of Positive Thinking"
What is clear, however, is that there is definitely a strong link between “positivity” and health. Additional studies have found that a positive attitude improves outcomes and life satisfaction across a spectrum of conditions—including traumatic brain injury, stroke and brain tumors
That is the bottom line, isn’t it. It’s ridic how secularists think they have the right to tell others how to live or how to act. Well, they don’t.
That’s nice! Prove it! Prove your affirmative claim that they are wasting their time.
I guess that’s a great conclusion to the thread. Well done! 👏👍
Simple, nothing has been accomplished despite any praying. Perhaps they made themselves feel like they did something. But that would be about it.
Psychology is considered to be a "soft" science. Too many intangibles.
Pence and his commission are doing a good job. They are being very professional in what they are doing and are making wise decisions.
Which decisions would those be?
They haven't made any decisions. But certain Trump supporters are allergic to facts, so that doesn't matter to them. They'll just blindly support their orange god no matter what. Trump over country!
Vice President Mike Pence, arriving Thursday at the 3M Innovation Center in Maplewood, described an “all hands on deck effort” to combat the spread of coronavirus, which has alarmed health officials around the world.
Pence expressed confidence about the availability of coronavirus test kits but acknowledged, “We don’t have enough tests today to meet what we anticipate will be the demand going forward.”
“For those who we believe have been exposed, for those who are showing symptoms, we’ve been able to provide the testing,” he added. “But as more Americans take an interest in this or have concerns about this, we want to make sure they have access to a coronavirus test as well, and we’ve made real progress on that in the last several days.”
The vice president’s trip to 3M was part of a cross-country tour in his role leading the White House Coronavirus Task Force. He was met by 3M CEO Mike Roman, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz and other government and industry officials. 3M is a maker of the N95 respirator, a type of face mask used as personal protective equipment against airborne particles.
Pence credited 3M for going to full production level for respiratory masks as the virus started spreading in January. “You are playing a vital role in the health of our nation,” he said. He added that the risk for the average American “remains low” and recounted steps the administration has taken, including travel restrictions and quarantines.
He offered condolences for the 11 U.S. deaths to date but said “the good news is that the vast majority of those who contracted the coronavirus in our country” have gotten treatment and are recovering.
Pence was next scheduled to head to Washington state to speak with officials about the coronavirus. That trip forced him to cancel a campaign event later Thursday in St. Paul with Second Lady Karen Pence.
The vice president’s visit came as Minnesota lawmakers have been holding hearings on the state’s response to a potential regional outbreak of COVID-19, the illness the coronavirus causes. The Minnesota Health Department has asked the Legislature for $25 million in emergency funding in response to the virus, which has spread around the globe from China.
Health Commissioner Jan Malcolm said Thursday that Minnesota’s public health laboratory can conduct tests and has been doing so since Monday. But she added that the state does not yet have the capacity to test everyone who wants to be tested. As Pence departed 3M, he reached out for a handshake with Malcolm, who instead offered an elbow bump to avoid spreading germs.
In Congress, the Senate approved an $8.3 billion emergency spending bill Thursday to combat the new virus, a day after the bill passed the House.
At 3M, Walz used the vice president’s visit to underscore the multilayered approach to confronting the virus.
“The vice president being here speaks to that, of understanding that governors and state public health officials are going to be the ones that are going to have to be administering back so that collaboration is happening,” Walz said.
Although stores have seen a run on face masks in recent weeks, health officials warn that they are intended for health care professionals caring for sick patients and generally not effective in preventing the public from catching coronavirus.
Addressing the “average American,” Pence said unless people are ill, they have no reason to buy a mask. That will mean more are available for patients and health care workers, he added.
“The reality is that despite that we now have cases … the risk to the average healthy American of contracting coronavirus remains low,” Pence said. There will be more cases, he added, but said it seemed to be affecting older populations, noting increased inspections of nursing homes.
“At the president’s direction we’re going to continue to lean into this,” he told reporters.
Accompanying Pence were Stephen Hahn, commissioner for the Food and Drug Administration, Dr. Deborah Birx, White House coronavirus coordinator, and Malcolm. The 3M executives meeting with Pence were Mojdeh Poul, executive vice president for the Health Care Business Group, Michael Vale, executive vice president of the Safety and Industrial Business Group, Denise Rutherford, senior vice president for corporate affairs and Omar Vargas, vice president for global government affairs.
Yet just the day before Pence said that there would be 1 million tests ready to go.
That is a lie.
It has nothing to do with Americans taking interest or having concerns. Doctors can't get enough tests to do clinical testing is hospitals all over the country. THAT is a FACT.
There is a reason why the CDC stopped posting how many the US has tested and being transparent isn't one of them.
Ya, Trump's idea of 'leaning into this' is to name call the Governors who are on the frontlines of this epidemic.
Pointing out that praying won't do a thing to stop the coronavirus is hardly getting our panties in a wad.
You, on the other hand, appear close to a meltdown.