Churches allowed to stay open in states where millions are particularly vulnerable to coronavirus
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
In the 15 most vulnerable states identified by the Kaiser Family Foundation , a national nonprofit that studies health issues, more than four in 10 adult residents are 65 or older or have an underlying medical condition.
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I have no problem with these people gathering to risk infecting each other. go natural selection go. I do have a problem with them going home, work, or businesses afterwards to infect others though.
Mostly, I don't have a problem with them infecting each other. I do worry about some older folks who were raised to believe that, if the church doors were open, they were sinning if they weren't there. There are a lot of those folks out there, and that overdeveloped sense of religious guilt could be their downfall. I'd hate to see that happen.
Perhaps it would be best to stay out churches. And wear masks.
They're asking for disaster.
meh, for the most part, they're used to being willfully ignorant social lepers.
Is it death-wishing that all the evangelical churches be allowed to stay open as long as they want and hold as many services as they can handle?
Maybe they think it's the start of "The End of Days".
Why do I think it would benefit the human race if they got their wish?
Stay healthy Buzz...
Thanks, FLYNAVY. You be careful and follow the guidelines as well.
What the hell is wrong with these people ?
They're willing to put their "rights" ahead of their own, and everyone else's, safety.
My mom's church was still having services until this past weekend. Most of the congregation is old, and many have health issues. And it is considered rude not to hug, so there is no social distancing. My sister and I finally talked my mom into skipping services.
It's like these people think they can't pray, or that their God won't hear their prayers if it is not in a church. They must be relatives of Dumb and Dumber. If their God can hear them in a church building, he can surely hear them in the privacy of their own home, or in their garden, or a closet.
They are obviously too stupid to understand that whether or not God can hear their prayers is based upon the sincerity of their hearts from anywhere they are, not just sitting inside a church. Or perhaps that is the kind of God they believe in, and will only listen to them if they are sitting in a church.
I'm sure glad that is not the kind of deity I believe in. I am free to pray anywhere, no matter where I happen to be at the moment. I don't need to be in a church to talk with my Creator.
It seems to me that their faith is weak.
if it requires them gathering and defying all common sense and science, it obviously is.
Could it be about the offering plates ?
What is the Pastor/ or which ever term Father, Rabbi like ?
Do you know and trust them ?
I trust the pastor not to be defrauding the congregation. He's misguided.
Sorry....I don't trust Pastors/Ministers/Priests of any religion.
Its called "Stuck on Stupid"!
It’s funny that secularists who can’t wait to shut down churches at first opportunity of not letting a crisis go to waste in order to compel by force the controlling of those they don’t like, yet optional elective surgery called abortion must be essential.
Most churches have voluntarily closed including mine world wide and that’s the way it should be in a constitutional republic. I’ve had to watch it on TV the last several weeks.
all should.
no one is trying to shut them down
they need to use common sense and shut down till the threat of spreading is greatly reduced
Indeed, common sense should prevail, but, even if there is a lack of common sense, they should obey the laws and shut down. They are needlessly exposing their church members to the C-19 for a bit more money in the pass around tray.
It seems that the almighty dollar prevails over concern for exposing their congregations to the C-19. And those who defy the law should be arrested and sent to jail. See how they like be exposed in a cell with others.
except i'm not sure they are breaking any laws or guidelines
Evening..Surely there are laws re the number of people at a Public gathering??..Here you are not allowed to be in a group of more than 2 people...and then you have to be 2 metres apart..
there certainly SHOULD BE, yet Trump refuses to mandate the shelter in place order and it is up to the individual governors. i believe 8 states have not yet implemented the order.
yes, we can be idiots, especially with the mixed message mental midget marauding as a wanna B mesiah , when he's basically only a pariah, for many of US
Words fail me..Such a simple thing that can save so many lives..Sounds like some of these "Governors" have a death wish for their own people..It does not have to be like this...So sad for the victims families that are yet to come....
yes, ignorance certainly can and does rule around here more often than it EVER should!
Even with states that have shelter in place rules, many religious gatherings are apparently exempt.
Trump is more concerned about how he looks for reelection than he is about American lives.
Sick shit !
I'm not sure-- I think it may depend on the location.(?)
Large groups of people assembling may now be illegal in certain areas-- be it a bar or restaurant, church, or whore house....
my church serves food AND Whiskey AND Women
, that's why i got Flagged !
Could be true in the states that have not yet passed the social distancing or stay at home laws. But, when a state's governor, city's mayor, or local law enforcement orders that those two things are to be enforced in a state of emergency and are to be adhered to, then those who deliberately defy that order are indeed breaking the law. It's not a request, nor even a suggestion, it is a law required in a state of emergency. The same as laws enacted in a state of emergency for any other dire reason to protect human life.
At least that is how I understand it. I am not a member of law enforcement, but, my Father was, and that is how it normally worked when he was on the force.
Actually we don’t need to be present to give to support our church or its charities and missions. We give on line to the extent that collecting an offering is not even a part of the church service. Just an offering box outside for those who are not internet inclined.
That is it in a nut shell. Yet, he thinks he is God and should never be held accountable for anything he does wrong.
You know as well as I do that there are many that are just waiting for the POTUS to make that mandate so they can freak out over it just as much as they are freaking out about him NOT making it.
I call them TDS sufferers.
Nonsense
I know I'm asking for a miracle but prove me wrong.
yea, but i notice you spell them differently...
Secularists may not want to see some simple church folks collectively die horrible and severe pneumonia-related deaths. Moreover, secularists who live nearby or in proximity to the community have a vested interests to seeing that community people are not expending their liberty to become virulent time bombs kill can damage and kill innocent secularists!
It is about the people's liberty and it is all about the state's right to protect the citizen-masses under its legal and public health department 'umbrella.'
This is the most decent comment I've ever seen you make, and yet you ruin it with this:
It’s funny that secularists who can’t wait to shut down churches at first opportunity of not letting a crisis go to waste in order to compel by force the controlling of those they don’t like, yet optional elective surgery called abortion must be essential.
You were so close to showing a bit of non-judgmental humanity to all, regardless of religious or political views.
haven't you heard,
everyone is out to get
Donald J. Trump, and his little
# 1 Fan too !
I wouldn't doubt if certain individual/s actually believed that too.
As the old saying goes, and is ever so true......"A leopard never changes its' spots."
Dear Friend SMAAB: We hold our Services using high technology.
That way no one infects or gets infected by Service attendance.
As well, or the Pesach (Passover) holiday we each with our own families and friends held our Seder, each at our own homes, using high technology.
Technology makes possible all kinds of things not using state of the art doesn't.
No need to choose one or the other.
Just put them together in creative ways.
Peace and Abundant Blessings.
Enoch.
I've also seen drive-in church services, with churchgoers staying in their cars. That's a good option where internet is spotty, or if many in the congregation aren't online.
Churches can still hold services, without risking the health of lives of attendees.
describe creative for me, as i need some guidance so as i might be rated PG by Generation XXX asz they ask Y does it come B 4 Z ?
.
psst: good to not see you, but i'm own lee hear to read a non a miss written posts that support my oh fences.
eye Spotted one once
A local church is having a drive in stay in your car Easter service at a closed car dealership Sunday, Good idea and I hope it goes well
Another is having in-car services in their church parking lot, split into two groups, alphabetically. Sounds like a good plan.
There must be a lot of Drive-In Movie Theatres that are out of business - it would be easy to convert them to churches allowing families to stay in their cars.
not anymore. they became big box stores or townhomes.
All near me have long closed years ago
I only know of one that is still in operation and it does a good business in warm weather, about 25 miles away.
good memories of the old one that used to be at edge of town (but not very church like)
if the vans a rockin, don't come a knockin memories /?
Some have (probably most?) , some haven't.
But the ones who have stayed open are guilty of putting some other (phony) values above the well being of their parishoners.
It's funny that anybody who claims to be pro-life is angry at secularists and reasonable, intelligent religious people who would rather not spread a deadly virus.
Or did you really think that only nonbelievers are smart enough to think that churches should be closed right now? The intelligent religious people I know, including my mother, have seen the risk to themselves and others and decided that they can pray at home.
I do not want to derail this seed, but find it interesting you have called abortion optional elective surgery. Probably best for another seed but worth noting
We need all the medical safety items there and the medical persons elsewhere. Abortion certainly is an elective procedure. It’s interesting that in many states where abortion is considered essential, gun stores are not and vice versa.
PPE is used at prenatal visits.
Some want to put time limits on abortion and guns purchases. It is wrong to delay optional elective surgery until an artificial time limit passes just as it is wrong to say I can't buy 2 guns at a time
I'll say it again I support gun rights and freedom to choose
like trumpski's recent rollbacks of EPA regulations? pandering to anti-choice religious scum in the south? licking the asses of corporate thieves? seeking revenge and retribution on career military and gov't officials that don't show blind allegiance to his 4th reich?
The issue isn't with churches voluntarily closing. At least they're being socially conscious and considerate. It's about the churches that do not or refuse to close. They'really being socially reprehensible and putting public safety, including their own, at risk. Or are you OK with that? And your jab athe secularists or abortion are just Red Herrings.
A/noon...Sorry..but madness..Almost signing their own death warrant..Churches of their own doing here closed to the public once they realised the risk to their congregation..Again the minority stuffing it up for the majourity..Stay at home people..It is a fact..The virus can' t move itself..it takes a human to do it...Stop moving around in public and the virus dies..It can't be any simpler...
Shona, forget it. Nobody is going to tell an American that he/she shouldn't exercise his/her total freedom. The numbers there will be astronomical. Did you see the news videos of high school or college kids defying mask-wearing and social distancing SUGGESTIONS (but not REQUIREMENTS - God forbid one should step on their individual rights)? There are countries where people are fined and even some where they are arrested for defying the lockdown.
Yep we are fined $1,600 for being out side without a good reason..There are 4 reasons you are allowed out otherwise you should be home...4 reasons not hard to remember...One feral has been jailed as he was meant to be in quarantine but was sneaking out and got sprung....Hundreds have been fined including businesses that are open and should not be....We have been warned, we have been told, no one is above the law, this is deadly serious...Full stop...We have lost 40 souls here in Australia..40 to many..We will lose more but we are in a far better position than many countries...So stay home and stop the spread...it may be yours or someone in your families life in your hands..It is not hard...
Bullshit-- the Supreme Court, lower courts, and other government agencies do it all the time.
I've read many Supreme Court cases about Americans' rights. And one theme that pervades these opinions is that these rights are not absolute.
Yes-- we have the "right to bear arms". But no-- we don't have the right to possess nuclear weapons. We have the right to free speech-- but no that's not absolute either. We don't have the right to falsely "Yell 'Fire!' in a crowded theatre". (Its Schenck v United States . . .for all you home gamers)
Evening Krishna....Commonly referred to here as "thinning the herd"..by people's own stupidity...
Actually this makes me think of the "Darwin Awards". (For those unfamiliar with them, they are awarded to people who, by their own stupidity, get themselves killed by one sort of risky behaviour or another ... thereby doing humanity a favour by removing mental defectives such as themselves from the gene pool).
By keeping churches open, these clergy are exposing their flock (and themselves) to the Trump Virus. And by choosing to attend, those folks are potentially exposing others (as well as themselves). to the virus. Such sheer stupidity is a clear sign of being mentally defective.
Sadly, a few will get the Virus...and a small number of them will die.
Which is sad indeed for the individual-- but accelerates the progress of Evolution to a higher form of life by weeding out those with "the genes for stupidity". (And like it or not... that's how Evolution works)
Evening Krishna....Commonly referred to here as "thinning the herd"..by people's own stupidity...
G'day Shona.
Yup-- that's exactly what is happening!
(And BTW, another thing that I find ironic-- from the start Trump and his evil minions have been downplaying the serriouness of the Virus.
Which probably means that his loyal supporters are on average, more likely to engage in risky behaviour and are more likely to get it. But meanwhile, those non-supporters of trump or the trump Crime Family realize how he distorts facts constantly-- are for the most part have been taking sensible precautions.
So ironically-- by his own behaviour, Trump is tending to increase the risks to many of his supporters . . .
its gotten so bizarre that when a political ad came out that told many actual truths,....trump decided to sue! Here's a seed about that--- check it out!
Corona Virus - Pan-Dumbic Two
In our line of work you shake hands.The president will continue to do it I will continue to do it.
--Vice President, role model, and Pandemic Expert Mike Pence
Sean Hannity called it a "Hoax"...and more!
(Since then the facts have gotten so blatantly obvious that some of these folks have back-tracked a bit, some even denied what they said...even though there are videos of it!
Evening..Trump was not the only leader to down play the virus..to their detriment now. But now they realise otherwise..and maybe it is just a little to late...Time will tell...
Buaa-- one of the things that non-Americans often find strange about the U,S, is the power the individual states have, Sometimes it gets a bit strange. Drinking age? Well if you don't like the drinking age in your state, just drive acoss the border to the state next door...
And, unfortunately, it applies to laws such as those laws concerning public health protections-- such as those regarding large groups assembling publicaly, etc.
time is already telling how Trump fckd up the handling of this entire deal.
America has the most cases and is crucially short on supplies.
Trump's daily mumbo jumbo contradicts his own experts, he's pushing an untested unproven drug a lot as of late. A drug made by a company that allegedly Trump himself owns a good deal of stock in...
and we know Trump is NEVER concerned about him profiting off of anything
Pretty sure that's 21 nation-wide. I remember it used to vary, though.
But, yeah, we have some states with shelter-in-place orders, and some states doing business as usual. In some states, whether one shelters in place is dependent on what county one lives in.
when we were younger, i lived in Pa, and it was 21, while Jersey was 19 , and i believe New York was as well
IIRC, when I was in middle school in West Virginia, it was 18. People drove from Ohio to drink, because their drinking age was 21. I vaguely remember the national minimum drinking age being set to 21, but can't remember what year. Maybe 1986 or '87?
sounds about right
Contrary to what some may believe, Freedom's NOT just another word for nothing left to lose. Actually freedom is just a matter of degree - some countries have more and some less, America has more and China has less, but both countries have limitations. I doubt that absolute freedom exists anywhere in the world.
The Canadian provinces are the same in that regard - they have individual jurisdiction over certain matters, such as education, whereas the federal government has jurisdiction over others, like criminal law, immigration, etc.
I would characterize all that as a generalization, which is completely backwards, proof in point is the picture accompanying the seed, statistically, are there any Trump supporters in the picture? A lot of those engaging in risky behavior, like attending parties, tend to be millennials and not too many of them are Trump supporters either, are they?
In Michigan the blue areas have the most cases and the cases further north are from the blue area people fleeing to their vacation properties and bringing it with them, which hopefully, we here in the north, with social distancing, will keep it under control.
Not true, that's a lie.
What is a lie ?
Trump DOES own stock in the drug maker
Interesting-- I hadn't know that!
(Thanks for the info)
You mean conservatives are more lkely to be obedient to the dictates of your "dear leader" (yet they criticize the Chinese people for being likely to be obedient to THEIR "dear leader")? LOL.
And yet the Republican and conservatives match Trump step for step. Not only do both groups support Trump in all his actions and activities, the groups model Trump to others!
I get it. Trump is the current personification of conservative law!
Conservatives and republicans have long craved a president who comes in, busts heads, gets 'the Agenda' completed, even when it means being cruel and using unusual methods, and being cold and calculating.
True enough, but that's really the same everywhere. Xi Jinping could say everyone has to eat noodles today, but nobody will have to, but if it is made into a law then it must be obeyed just as your laws have to be obeyed or else there will be penalties in both cases if it isn't and you're caught breaking that law. Really no different. Perhaps it's just that Chinese people accept guidance more than Americans - look at all the people in the USA who have been mocking or defying or ignoring the suggestions to defeat the covid-19. That didn't happen here, or if it did, it was an isolated case because the person didn't know it or understand it.
In China, the number of cases and deaths were less than those already in the USA, and why? Because the difference between the Chinese people and those in the USA is that the Chinese people are more obedient and apt to follow the guidelines set by their government, and are more concerned about the collective good than they are about individual rights. IMO in the USA the exact opposite is the case, and, due to the refusal of Americans to comply with the safety procedures and directives, not taking them seriously, God forbid, we may see the kind of numbers of cases and deaths in the USA like the enormously exaggerated fake numbers of Chinese cases and deaths that the anti-Chinese propagandists have been spouting (and actually believed by some NT members).
A month ago the streets here were virtually empty, a scene like the aftermath in a dystopian disaster movie, and even after weeks of no new cases and almost every patient recovered where I live, everyone was still wearing masks, fever tests were still required to enter stores and buildings. Only now are things getting back to normal, and yet the schools/universities are still closed.
China, China, China!
Whenever Trump needs to cover for his lies, he derails the conversation by going on a rant about China. All of the problems Trump and members of the Trump Crime Family have created are blamed on China (well, occasionally Trump's "ODS"...."Obama Derangement Syndrome" emerges. And then there's always his "AOCDS")
And Trump's CDS ("China Derangement Syndrome") is nothing new-- it didn't start with the Trump Virus:
Donald Trump Says "China"
Of course you know that I cannot open that youtube. You're right about Trump and China, because his supporters have been emulating his example and have been freaking out about China on a number of articles on the Front Page.
Yes.
That's why I posted the title that YouTube used for the video:
Trump says "China".
So possibly if you search for a video with that title on a Chinese site you might be able to find it.
When I try to find a video for that title I get tons of them - do you mean this one?
www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/what-trump-has-said-about-china-and-the-coronavirus/vi-BB128M1R
... or else.
.....or else in this case take a chance of dying. I said they are "MORE obedient" (than Americans), but not robots. But then Americans want to be the best at everything, even their numbers of virus cases and deaths from it, eh?
Any religious 'leader' who encourages people to do something so detrimental to their health, or the health of others, is not the real deal. It's all about the collection plate for them.
I just visited the Life Tabernacle Church website. Lots and lots of donate buttons. Also, 'Pastor' Tony Spell is a man who really likes his bus fleet. One has to see it to appreciate it. There is also a handy-dandy link where parishioners can watch sermons at home online. IMO, that makes his motives to fill the pews a smidge more obvious. A bird in the hand, perhaps?
He should give some of those buses to the White House (Trump has thrown so many of his appointees "under the bus" that he really needs more buses in the parking lot there...more buses to throw people under. My guess is that Fauci will be next...
My state, Florida, has the highest number of people over 65 in the entire US. 20.5%, yet dimwit Desantis our governor has allowed the religious exemption. Thankfully most churches are not having in-person services but there are some that are. In Orlando, there was an in-person service yesterday of 300 people.
As of yesterday, there were 12,350 cases and 221 deaths. Our town of 53,000 had it's first two deaths yesterday.
I have no idea how such ignorance can be allowed by Desantis.
Probably because he's pandering to the Republican voters in the state...and/or the less intelligent religious ones.And the population in the Panhandle...and various other mental retards.
Early on, IIRC, Florida didn't have many cases of the Trump Virus compared to a few other states...but my guess is the number of cases there will increase rapidly in the next week or two...thanks to your moron of a governor.
And then there's Texas . . .
Until Sunday, DPS had only increased patrols at the border. But Gov. Abbott said in a tweet Sunday, "Now, CHECKPOINTS at La.-TX border will be used to further reduce travelers from Louisiana potentially bringing #COVID19 into Texas."
Evening Kavika..Unfortunately I think some people believe they can "pray it away"..Indonesia thought they could do that to and kept saying they had no cases..Now they are in a right bloody mess..and it is going through their Islands like a bushfire...Absolutely stupid in this day and age...
Totally agree shona.
isn't he Trumps' buddy ...?
Yes.
The worst part of me says "is this a bad thing?"
I think a lot of people can relate to that.
BTW sometimes I really do think of this in terms of darwin...and how Evolution works. Some of this people will die because of their limited mental capacity...hence removing themself from the gene pool.
Yes, a tragedy... but from I know about Evolution, it doesn't care about survival of the individual...only survival of the species.
And what appears to be the trend in Evolution...is that life on this planet evolves...becomes more advanced over time.
Actually I just realized the irony iof my comment. I mentioned Evolution...and even though its an established fact..I would imagine that many of these people don't believe in it-- and are adamant that it doesn't exist.
[deleted]
You mean like this?
Reeally?
Which particular race is it attacking?
Guessin the Human one with limited Mental Capacity to comprehend the realities of the problems our current world presents to them, and the rest of us
This fool needs to stfu. He should be out grabbing vachina, not sitting in the Oval Office.