Paul Has Questions For Christians Who Support Trump
For those who can't watch the video, it is a regular person sitting in his car who videos himself asking pointed questions to Christians who support Trump. First he quotes 1 Corinthians 13 4-8
1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
He then goes through a list of ways that Donald Trump violates that bible passage.
It would be nice if we could get a decent answer from Christian Trump supporters as to why it is alright to support someone so obviously un- Christian but that has been a forlorn hope to this point.
Tags
Who is online
664 visitors
It is very easy to demonstrate that Trump is not a practicing Christian. Isnt he closer to being a demon than he is to being a disciple of Christ ?
That Love Is meme was used in one of my favorite movies A Walk To Remember. It just baffles me that a Christians support someone who has continually broken every one of the 10 commandments over and over again.
For them it's still about abortion, and the falsehoods that they have talked themselves into.
At every turn and every instance, they have ignored the commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness" with regards to just about everything that their religion is supposed to stand for.
You're right, of course. This is particularly insane because abortion is barely mentioned in the Bible, and only tangentially. Anyone who says they are against abortion because the Bible condemns it... is either ignorant or a liar.
MEMO TO PAUL - It is okay to be a republican but please don't vote R this election.
Christ gave us One Commandment: "Love God and your neighbor". His message has no exceptions.
Trump's message is hatred of "those people".
Christ's message and Trump's message are diametrically opposed. Absolutely incompatible. One may follow Christ or one may follow Trump... but one may not follow both.
I find it odd that people think this is the choice before Christians. I wonder if you really think this is the choice we face or if this is just you trying to manipulate the conscience of weak people with little or no understanding of Christianity, Christ or our place in God's kingdom.
So, just in case you are actually sincere, let me see if I understand your position correctly. Because Trump is an egotistical, narcissistic person who says whatever comes into his head we Christians should vote for the party of the Left, which is generally anti-God and getting more so as time goes by, who supports abortion, confiscation of guns, indoctrinating our children within the public school system in LGBTQ propaganda and whatever nonsense the left wants children to believe, supports socialism, supports Black Lives Matter, is against religious freedom and so on and so on.
In other words, we should reject God and what we believe is right for a single man because of his character flaws and support a party that is becoming more anti-God and anti-Christian day by day? I'd say good luck with that, but unfortunately, your side has done a good job with selling an imposter Jesus, known as SJW Jesus, who apparently came to Earth in order to support Democrats and whatever ideology they come up with. A lot of people who may be Christians are being deceived by SJW Jesus. I hope they wake up soon.
P.S. One can vote for Trump without following Trump, by the way.
Your Christianity appears to be predicated on opposing the Left. What party was Jesus in?
This would be incorrect and, really, a pretty weak dig. Nor does it address the topic to which I responded. Care to comment on that?
I think he would say he was in his Father's party.
Half your answer was a complaint about the Left.
If Donald Trump is not a Christian, and is in fact pretty much the opposite of a Christian, why would Christians vote for him?
Are you saying there are no Christian politicians who would oppose abortion, LBGTQ issues, gun control, and public school teachers?
Really?
Are you saying you're not actually going to address the issue? Why wouldn't Christians vote for Trump when Biden and the Left are so much more antithetical to our values? Saying we shouldn't vote for him because he's not a nice guy just isn't going to cut it when the alternative is so much worse.
Thats just weird.
You will vote for someone who is unfit for office, (pathological liar, crook, bigot, moron and cheat) just because he allows evangelicals and conservative Catholics to believe that he agrees with their world view. Didn't Jesus throw the hypocrites out of the Bible?
There are hundreds if not thousands of actual Christian politicians in this country, and Donald Trump is the best you could do to represent your viewpoint ? Wow.
I'm somewhat baffled by your responses to what I say. It's as if you aren't actually reading any of it. Like your eyes can see the words but your brain is translating what I say into some narrative you prefer instead of what I said. Further, you seem to not consider the implications behind what I say, but if you're just creating your own narrative out of what I say, I guess that would be hard to do. So, this time, slow down. READ what I say and think about it first before responding.
You keep making this about Trump but I keep telling you that, for me, it's about my opposition to the Left and what they are doing to this country. I'm not voting for Trump because I find him and admirable person. In fact, I find his morals and values objectionable. As far as I can tell, he exhibits no recognizable Christian traits. But let me be clear about this. I don't vote for people just because they're supposedly Christians. I vote according to policies. And I think his policies are a lot less damaging to the soul of this country than the Left's.
I don't just believe in God, I believe God. The reality I live in is one where there is a spiritual battle going on every moment of every day. The battle is between those who serve God and those who don't. Those who await God's kingdom on Earth and those who are trying to prevent it. The Left appears to be doing all it can to prevent it. They are taking truth and twisting it into lies and selling it as something Jesus would do.
You think Trump is so bad. I have to wonder what you think of Pelosi? I may not have much respect for Trump as a person of virtue but she actually frightens me. And Adam Shiff? Maxine Waters? Others on the Left like them? All the things they have manufactured, spun and simply lied about in order to take Trump down. They don't appeal to the American people on the basis of fact, logic or reason but simply on emotion. They pander to a public conditioned by their public education policies to accept whatever feels right, not what actually is right. They try to sell us on the idea that gender is a social construct and not something that is factual, something real. And people actually buy that crap. And if you don't buy it, watch what happens to you. They don't argue. They don't reason. They just go after you and try to cancel you. Try to silence your right to speak. Try to sue you or get you fired from your job. They post your information on the internet so emotional people can come to your house in order to scream at you, vandalize your property and even threaten you physically.
And then there's the Leftist media with all their "sources with knowledge of the situation." Their selectivity with what is reported and how. How they stoke the unrest in this country for both profit and advancing their agenda.
So, if it isn't clear to you by now why I would vote for Trump over Biden, I doubt it will ever be.
Um, yeah. It was supposed to be a secret that the reason Trump is running and not someone else is because the Republican party, in its entirety, decided to let me choose who would run on the Republican ticket. I wonder how you found out?
In essence, you are not voting for Trump because you think he is a fit president. Rather it is because the agenda of the D party is antithetical with Christian values as you see them and Trump's agenda, in spite of his many personal flaws, is —in terms of Christian values— less harmful.
John sees this as you voting for Trump, the man. You, instead are voting to stop D policies because you see them as more harmful to Christian values than sticking with the R policies of Trump.
If I got that right, then I would say: interesting perspective.
For the most part, yeah, you got it right. Not sure why he can't understand it. I don't mean why he doesn't agree with it but I don't know how much more obvious I can be about why it isn't about Trump the person.
Not sure why you find it interesting. Seems more like a simple if/then problem to me.
That wasn't intended as a criticism, btw.
You do not understand it at all.
If you wish to understand it, please ask questions, rather than make suppositions.
At no moment did I indicate how Christians should vote. You made that shit up.
Let's try again, with simple words: Christ gave us One Commandment, greater than all the others:
Trumps says
Christ's message and Trump's message are opposed.
One may follow Christ, or on may follow Trump. One may NOT follow both.
Of course you have the right to follow Trump. By doing so, you turn your back on Christ.
You have the right to refuse Christ.
Fine.
If you think that that is sufficient reason to turn your back on Christ, that is your choice.
You are free to value "anti-leftism" above Christ. That appears to be the case for most TrumpTrue- BelieversTM: they "believe" Trump above all else. (We won't mention "You shall have no gods before me"...)
You are not free to ignore Christ's central message - love one another - if you call yourself "Christian".
One or the other. Not both.
Your position, as TiG has shown, is predicated on the idea that Trump is closer to Christ than Biden. That doesn't necessarily mean that Trump is close to Christ.
That brings up a question: Do you consider yourself a follower of Christ?
Another question: Do you agree that Christ's essential message is "Love God and your neighbor"? To help you answer, here's Matthew 22:36-40:
Actually, it's "Love God and love others." Loving God comes first. One can't love others in the way God intended without loving God first. Part of loving God with all that we have is to obey Him. If we don't obey Him, how can we say we love Him? Do you think the Left loves and obeys God more than the Right? (that's one of those clarifying questions you asked me to ask rather than make suppositions) If you do, would you define loving others as empowering them to achieve their heart's desires? Also, what do you think it is that God wants for people?
Um, to which Christ do you refer? Social Justice Jesus or the real Jesus? Because I think you're getting the two mixed up. Apparently, you mean Social Justice Jesus. The one the Left always refers to in these situations. The one who's purpose is, apparently, to give religious credibility to whatever the Left dreams up. Some sort of Biblical justification that's really just twisted pap that sounds good and makes it seem as if Jesus would support it. "Jesus loved the sinner" or some such thing that gets translated into Jesus just loving without regard to what his Father desires from people.
Here's something you might want to check out. Jesus loves us. Enough to demean himself in being born as a human and dying on the cross for our sins. But in order to receive that salvation one needs to repent of their sin and ask Jesus to save them. He didn't die on the cross so we can just continue doing what our sinful hearts desire. He died so that we who choose to follow him can be changed into what God intended us to be all along. That would be people who's greatest desire is to know God. To see God. To do God's will rather than their own. In fact, when God has completed His work in us, it wouldn't even make sense to put it in terms of " God's will rather than our own " because there would be nothing in our will that would desire anything other than serving and worshipping God. There would be nothing in our will that would be contrary to God's. There would be no " rather ".
Now, compare that to Social Justice Jesus of the Left. That Jesus doesn't care that God has very definite ideas about the proper behavior of His creations. He only cares that we "love" others, love being defined as affirming whatever anyone does as long as it isn't too bad or "doesn't hurt anyone else" or because they really really feel there's nothing wrong with what they're doing. Social Justice Jesus just wants you to love them (accept whatever it is they are doing) and affirm them and tell them God loves them. No need to actually be concerned that God wills that you conform to His will rather than follow the sinful desires of our own hearts.
But in any case, it's hardly a matter of turning my back on Christ. If you truly believe in God and His Son, then you must believe that God appoints all powers and authorities. Has it occurred to you that perhaps God chose Trump for some purpose of His? Do you think Nebuchadnezzar was a devotee of God? Yet God used him to accomplish His purpose. What's more, He had Daniel serve Nebuchadnezzar. He told the Israelites to pray for him. So, are you praying for Trump? Are you loving Trump? Maybe it is you who are rejecting God by working against His choice?
As I said in 4.1.6 , I am not voting for Trump because I like the guy, although I like a lot of what he is trying to do. I don't follow the guy as some sort of messiah. I am voting for him because I like his platform better than the Left's, which I consider anti-God. More so than the right, anyway.
And anyone on the Left is better? Look what happens to people who disagree with them. Watch some YouTube of Black Lives Matter protesters. Watch protesters on the left of any stripe.
Agree with you there! Fortunately, one can vote for Trump without following him. So, that pretty much puts paid to your claim of turning my back on Christ. The real one, I mean. You see, I don't care what Trump's motivation is for what he does. I only care that it will do less damage to our nation, from a Biblical perspective, than the Left's plans would.
Sorry, Bob. You don't get to judge whether I'm refusing Christ or not. That would be Christ's prerogative, don't you think? Or are you claiming to know my heart as well as He does? Did the Holy Spirit go on vacation and leave you in charge of searching a person's heart? Did God grant you authority to change the terms of salvation?
I don't know if you're a Christian or not. For all I know, you're not and you're just trying to use scripture against me. Or maybe you are. Not for me to judge. But let me tell you a secret. The difference between Social Justice Jesus and the real Jesus is that the real Jesus has only one concern. The will of his Father. Social Justice Jesus is not concerned with God or what He wants. He's concerned with what humans dream up as good and right and just, all under a false understanding of love. The real Jesus is not interested in affirming Black Lives Matter. Black Lives Matter's goals are nothing like his. The real Jesus is interested in changing his followers into images of himself because that is love. To change us from the sinful creatures we are now into beings like himself. He has zero interest in helping us create the society of our choosing because our hearts always choose wrong. He is intensely interested in creating a new person who's desire is to live in God's kingdom.
Personally, I think Jesus is coming back soon. I don't think I will die of old age, anyway. I'm doing my best to stand at the door and watch. To keep my lamp filled with oil. When the day of the Lord comes, I can tell you that the question God puts to us won't be "Did you fight for social justice?" It will be "do you know my Son and does He know you?" and " did you tell others about Him? Was your focus on following my Son? Did you deny yourself and take up your cross for His sake?" It certainly won't be "Did you help Black Lives Matter achieve their idea of justice? Did you make homosexuals feel good about themselves and not bother them with how I feel about the subject?"
Totally agree! That's nice. So, where does it say God commands me not to vote for Trump? Especially in light of what the left has planned is so much worse from a biblical perspective?
Uh, no it isn't. And I don't think you understood TiG's post if you think it shows this. TiG wasn't trying to show anything except that he understood my position. For all I know, Biden, as an individual, is closer to Christ than Trump is. Or Trump could be. Or neither of them are close to him. My position is actually not about any of that. My position is that I'm voting for Trump because I think he will do less harm to the country than the Democrats would. Why can't you guys get it through your heads that it's not about Trump, the man? About how worthy or unworthy he is?
No, it doesn't. Nor does it matter. We're not voting for a religious post. We're not the College of Cardinals electing a new Pope. I would greatly prefer that Trump was a better person but he's not.
Here's something that might help you understand. If the most highly regarded Christian in the world ran for president of the United States, I would not vote for him if his platform was wrong. For instance, he wanted to be president so he could pass a law that all businesses had to be closed on Sundays out of respect for God. That would be a bad platform and I would not vote for him.
Yes.
No. Christ's essential message is "Repent and turn to me for salvation". If you do not do that first, you can't love God or your neighbor in the manner God calls us to do. If you really want to know Jesus and know God, you can't blow off this distinction.
Further, you can't just throw out "Love God and your neighbor" without defining what that would look like. What defines what that would look like? The Bible, yes? And who, in the Bible, exemplifies love the best? Jesus, yes? Jesus, the friend of sinners. But Jesus did not say "just believe in me and the rest is all good." He said, repent and come to me for salvation. He didn't say anything like, it's all good. He said leave your life of sin. Pick up your cross and follow me. Don't love the world, love God instead and do what He says. Your old self has to die so you can be born again. He said we are all lost in the dark, chasing things that cause us death but he offered us life. A very specific life. A life of obedience, worship and service to God the Father and His Son. And as strange as that sounds, we will consider it more wonderful than we can now possibly imagine! The scales will fall from our eyes when God finishes His work in us and we will wonder how we could have drug our feet so much in submitting to Him.
Love is not telling an unrepentant homosexual that it's okay he keeps on living in their sin because "God loves them." Love is telling them that God has a plan for their lives. A wonderful plan that would fulfill the real desire of their hearts if only they would turn to Him. Love is warning them of approaching disaster if they do not repent and turn to God. How astonished they will be on that day when they see how much they gave up to keep what is less than worthless.
You say I can't follow Trump (I don't) and follow Christ. I agree. But I say to you, you can't live in the world and serve God. We are called to come out of the world. That is, reject what the world considers important. Reject it's values in favor of God's. When Jesus comes back and begins his thousand year reign, it's not going to be movies, popcorn and pillow fights. The bible says he will rule with an iron scepter. This means that, as King, he will rule according to his Father's will. He's not going to be interested in human ideas of social justice. He isn't going to show us how to make them work. He's simply going to rule according to his Father's will.
So, to show true love to our neighbors, we need to tell people about all of this and more. We need to tell them they need to repent and turn to Jesus for salvation. We need to tell them what will happen if they don't. We need to show patience and love for the individual without accepting their sin as okay. We need to show them the joy of knowing God personally, not just information about Him.
If you don't see Christianity as being this, then you're missing a lot. But don't take my word for it. If you are truly interested in seeing God, in knowing Him and loving Him then pray. Ask God to give you fresh eyes to see what the Bible really says. Because if what you believe isn't grounded in the whole Bible, even the parts you find uncomfortable, then...
Gee. I thought he spoke Aramaic... which kinda sorta makes quibbling over word's in English... foolish...
That's pretty straightforward. If Christ had meant that, I think he would have said it. Repeatedly. He didn't. "Makin' shit up" is a very old tradition.
God is love. Unconditionally. No small print. A person who has never heard of Christ, but "does unto others as they would have others do unto them" is a follower of Christ. That person will be with God forever.
Christ told us that love is paramount. You may of course disagree with Him. You may prefer to put your faith in a man who preaches hate. If you choose hate, you reject Christ. You have that right.
It's your choice. You may also delude yourself, inventing justifications for "hate in the name of God". Your soul is your problem.
My purpose is to prevent you from propagating a false message.
You wouldn't happen to be a Unitarian Universalist, would you? That would explain a lot.
Other than that, I don't see any point in arguing with you. I'm content to let God judge between us. The real one.
Having read your last post to me there is no point in arguing with you about Trump.
Please stop writing occasional posts attacking me for my attacking Trump. I oppose the man who is sure to go down in history as the worst president this country has ever had. This is not even a close call. Religious fanatics, Christian religious fanatics, may appreciate him, but historians will not. I am on the side of right regarding Trump, I am quite sure of it. There may be a battle between good and evil and right and wrong going on every day, as you say, but you have Trump with the wrong color uniform on.
Your hatred for Nancy Pelosi is, well, bizarre.
If Adolph Hitler Jr. , so to speak, ran for president of the United States and promoted all the policies you like, would you vote for him ?
In other words, there are no standards of character or personal morality or respect for law you would require of your president, as long as he opposed multiple genders ?
How will God judge the man in the video at the top? Will God think this man failed to serve Him, based on this video?
I have argued for five years that Trump is not fit for office because he is a known liar, crook, bigot , moron, and cheat. Almost all of that also applies to Hitler, only more so. And you think I would vote for Hitler because he was a socialist? LOL.
Hitler was not a socialist by the way.
That's fine with me. You needn't worry... God will allow us all to come to Her.
Then again... some of us may feel uncomfortable in the presence of pure love. We may need to reflect on our lives for a while... to find our path to forgiveness of our own deeds.
Personally... I might enlist for another tour in the world, to try to do better...
Could you bear to carry your baggage into God's presence tomorrow?
That language was inserted to emphasize to you that I was trying to summarize what you wrote and that I was then done.
You have to be kidding if you think Biden is more unethical than Trump. The list of Trump's unethical acts is so long that there is not enough room to list them. Buh bye. My I list is growing so bring beer and bbq.
You seem to be ignoring what Trump has done throughout his career. When it comes to personal ethics, you cannot compare 3+ years of trump to 40+ years of Biden. Compare 40 years to 40 years.
Trump is a con-man. He is an exploitative cheat who will do whatever it takes to 'win'. He is a pathological liar likely because he has found that if one foregoes ethics, it is easier to win. That is, he purposely does not play by the rules because he values winning (even if by cheating) over ethics.
Fascinating
Bravo! Well said.
Ah, well, this post definitely explains a lot. Why didn't you just come out and say you are not a Christian?
Okay, I understand.
Um, not sure I said Biden is more unethical. I believe what I said is that what he supports is antithetical to Christian values. For all I know, Biden is as big or a bigger liar than Trump, but hides it better. Or he may lie way less. But even if he is completely honest in his beliefs, being honest in them doesn't make those beliefs good. Hitler probably honestly believed in his, after all.
Maybe. It's hard to tell since the man can't turn a doorknob without the left attaching some sinister, evil motivation for doing so, so it's hard to tell.
I tend to agree with this somewhat, although I'm not sure to what degree. Possibly I agree completely. However, do you think politicians in general are any different? Take Pelosi or Schiff for instance.
The most surprising thing about Trump is that, even during the previous election, you felt you knew what you were getting with the man. You got the sense you knew the man in a way you don't with other politicians. With Trump, you knew what was on his mind and what he stood for because he literally can't stop himself from saying whatever comes into his head. He's the most transparent politician I can remember.
Your normal politician? I never feel I know them. I always get the sense that they are saying what they need to in order to get elected, not what they really believe or plan to do.
I think you nailed the original appeal of Trump. He was not your normal politically correct politician. I think many granted him his asshole level of candor because in that candor was a hope that he would be upfront with the American people. Not the case, but from talking with people who voted for him, I think that is much of the appeal.
Now, given almost four years, I wonder how many of those folks are upset that they ended up with just a different form of bullshit.
I certainly agree. Trump is no different in that regard. He is out to win reelection so watch him say or do whatever it takes (in his mind) to get the W.
For the most part my view of career politicians is quite harsh. I am sick of the lot. I would be happy to see Pelosi, Schiff, et. al. (including Nadler) out of office. And, to be fair, let's toss out Cotton, Cruz and McConnell.
Term limits, totally!!!
If only ...
Wow, that was a load of RW bullshit.
Just because someone doesn't follow your dogma doesn't mean they are 'anti-God'.
No one 'supports abortion', they support women having personal bodily integrity.
Ya, y'all claimed from day one the Obama would 'confiscate our guns'. It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now. But hey, the fear mongering has to continue for guns to keep flying off the shelves.
So you're against cops and firemen and libraries and roads and the USPS. Got ya.
You know Jesus was black right?
That's pretty fucking funny.
The Religious Freedom Restoration Act was introduced in the House by Chuck Schumer and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.
Public services are not a defining characteristic of socialism. If so then every nation of substance would be 'socialist'.
Your idea of "Christian values" apparently includes racism, misogyny, White-supremacy, ... all the descriptors applicable to Donald "The Prophet" Trump.
I most certainly do not follow that path.
Nor would Christ.
Could you be more precise? To which of his policies are you referring?
This method of defining morality is illogical.
This is setting the "what is acceptable" criterion at "the worst that anyone has ever done".
- Did some random Democrat lie once? Then it is acceptable for Trump to lie all the time!
- Was there a case of abuse of immigrants during the Obama Administration? Then it is acceptable for Trump to abuse immigrants all the time.
- Did any President ever profit from the office? Then it is acceptable for Trump to profit from the office all the time.
You are accepting as proper Presidential behavior, the worst that any politician has ever done.
You do not set standards by "what is legal". You do not set standards by "what tradition imposes". Notably, you do not set standards by "what should a follower of 'love one another' " do?
You set standards by "what is the very worst that anyone has ever done? That is acceptable for Trump.
Sorry, Bob. My position isn't that difficult to understand, yet you choose to ignore it, pretending I'm saying something different. It's pretty hard to have any sort of useful conversation when one has to contend with strawmen constantly.
Also, what point in speaking of Christ when we aren't talking about the same person? Yours seems to be some sort of pasted together conglomeration of different religions which apparently suits who you think Christ should be. One where God presents as a "she" and you seem to think reincarnation is a real thing. Never heard Jesus call God "mother". And certainly never anything about reincarnation.
Seriously? How can you claim to know anything about Jesus and say something like that???
An irrelevant question, since Jesus took all my "baggage". And why would I need to wait until tomorrow? I only need go to my knees right now to be in His presence before His throne. All my "baggage" has been nailed to the Cross when Jesus saved me. Surely you know at least this much for goodness sake! Or are you unaware of what Jesus did on the cross?
Also, the question implies that we have to be good enough to stand before God. We've got to prepare ourselves somehow. Your comment about another tour in the world so you can try to do better suggests this as well. Don't you know that, even if it were possible, you could "enlist" for a thousand different lives and you'd never be good enough. A million. A trillion. Not you or anyone else would ever be good enough to stand before God on their own merit. The only people who can stand before God are those who are covered by the blood of Jesus. Not because we deserve it but because of God's grace He credits those who trust and follow Jesus and sacrifice he made for us with his righteousness. We can stand before God because Jesus is worthy to, not because we are.
So, I hate to disappoint you, but it's hard to take your attempt to shame me in Jesus' name seriously when you don't seem to know anything about him.
So now you could commit mass murder and all would be ok because you've said the magic words?
Your vision of God is archaic.
That Bible passage is often read at wedding ceremonies. I wonder if it was read at any of Trump's three weddings. Probably not.
"Christian for Trump" is nonsense.
Colossians 3:22
Ephesians 6:5
Peter 2:18
These are but three items from the bible which explain the 'christians for Trump,"------------aptly.
From high on Capital Hill the Lord POTUS passed on to his disciples his TEN COMMANDMENTS:
I am the President of the United States
Thou shalt have no other President of the United States
Thou shalt not make unto thee any fake ballots
Thou shalt not take the name of thy President in vain
Remember the House of White and keep it holy
Honour my wife and children
Thou shalt not kill anyone save those who disagree with me
Thou shalt not commit adultery more often than I do
Thou shalt not steal Musicians' music
Thou shalt not bear virus masks
Thou shalt not covet anything Chinese.