17 Confirmed Dead In Mass Shooting At Florida High School
Active shooter at high school in Parkland Florida. Shooter still not apprehended. There are reports of multiple injuries.
BREAKING: Authorities say a school in Parkland, Florida, was placed on lockdown this afternoon following a reported shooting.
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Many students have been brought out ok, unknown what if any injuries have happened.
He initially got away by blending in with the evacuated students. He was identified by witnesses and arrested. News here reports 17 dead but it may rise as there are critically injured.
When you have created a culture where people think they can gain glory, retribution or a perverted sense of justice by shooting other human beings, this is what happens.
Gun love is the problem. No one goes into a school and attacks people with a pick axe, they use guns.
Yes, the liberals have created a culture where anyone can do whatever they want to anyone they want. If they fail in any attempt, be it in a romantic relationship or success at their jobs, or being rejected in some manner, they lash out at whoever they think has wronged them. It's always someone else's fault that they have turned out to be losers and failures. Almost always these shooters turn out to be left wing nuts. Guns are simply their tool of choice.
Oh, I get it now. If anyone even mentions that guns were a factor then they are off limit and out of bounds. Liberals are, "Politicizing the tragedy", but the goppers blaming it all on liberals is fine and dandy. Gotcha...
No, it's the shooter's grandiose sense of entitlement that leads them to believe that everything bad that happens to them is someone else's fault. Hillary continues to be a good example of this mentality.
Oh you mean like these guys.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=gr12VWy6&id=E8384FAD6A0FF3D71BD3192F8ED7A71987D1BD2F&thid=OIP.gr12VWy6ZNgnrc7Xle0b7wEyDM&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia3.s-nbcnews.com%2fj%2fnewscms%2f2017_33%2f2119681%2fgettyimages-830617832_4ffeeb05c91503bdafae3c9881220d5d.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg&exph=1000&expw=1500&q=charlottesville+protesters&simid=608009939208768037&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0
You didn't need to bring your hatred for HRC into this. I suggest you try the DT group as they love comments like yours.
Literally has nothing to do with this incident at all.
BULLSHIT!
Yes, Congress did repeal a rule that made it harder for people with mental illness to buy a gun
The repeal, approved by the Republican-controlled House and Senate, was supported by the NRA and ACLU.
correct me if I am wrong , but wasn't that repealed because of a lack of due process and judicial adjudication to remove the enumerated right of the persons affected?
Gosh, if the ACLU was supportive, then it must have placed unnecessary restrictions on people's rights.
I'll bet you'll now backtrack and laud every position the ACLU has ever taken …
… because this once, they lost their sanity.
WTF, Al Capone opened soup kitchens during the Great Depression … so, in spite of all the people he killed … SOUP'S ON EVERYONE … Al Capone, American Hero!
Are you unable to grasp the idea that it's inconsistent, if not hypocritical, to obliquely laud an organization that, for once, you agree with, while, ordinarily, in the past, bad mouthing it?
Here's the ACLU rationale.
The American Civil Liberties Union does not oppose gun control laws. As an organization dedicated to defending all constitutional rights, we believe the Second Amendment allows reasonable restrictions to promote public safety.
But gun control laws, like any law, should be fair, effective and not based on prejudice or stereotype. This rule met none of those criteria.
In this era of “alternative facts,” we must urge politicians to create laws based on reliable evidence and solid data.
The thousands of Americans whose disability benefits are managed by someone else range from young people with depression and financial inexperience to older adults with Down syndrome needing help with a limited budget. But no data — none — show that these individuals have a propensity for violence in general or gun violence in particular.
______________________________________________
Otherwise, good to see you, Mark.
ANNNNNNNNNND there it is! See my comment way below...
Yeah, we all kinda saw that one coming, too...
No one with a pix axe ever stoppped a shooter.
It took a good guy with a gun.
Tell me, what law has been passed since Sandy Hook that helps in situations like this? Where was the good guy with a gun that stopped the 17 deaths today? Oh, that's right, there wasn't a "good guy with a gun" that stopped the shooting from happening today. When will people like you wake up and, smell the gun powder?
I'm talking about the cops who captured him. Please think outside the liberal box for once.
Oh, I always do, in spite of what you might think of me, I'm not a liberal. It was the conservatives and, the gun lobbyists who were saying, "Only good guys with guns can stop the bad guys with guns so, don't take any guns away from our citizens, the Second Amendment must be held up to a higher standard than any other amendment." A bill was presented back during Obama's time in office that would make it harder for terrorists to get guns in this country and, it never made it to the floor. We've gotten to the point when talking about rights that terrorists have more rights than our kids do.
are you talking about when they wanted to tie the no fly list to the NICS check making it if you were on the no fly list you couldn't buy or own a gun?
That failed for a very simple reason , no one knows how one gets on the list , there is no notification your on the list( until you try to fly), there is no process to get oneself removed from the listin a timely manner ( unless one is a member of congress , ted kennedy was on the list too) or at no cost to the person on the list erroneously, and to attempt to do so was expensive and stonewalled due to national security interests, so basically anyone could be put on that list( actually a compilation of lists from different agencies) that had no judicial overwatch to insure that the persons rights were actually not being abused , it was all done in secret, with zero notification to refute the designation.
IT was a shitty bill.
But on a good note all them violent movies that them hypocritical Hollywood liberals make millions off from they donate large sums to the democrat party.
On a side note I think part of the problem is being played out right now. The 24/7 coverage by the press. They are giving these terrorist what they want. Fame.
Bingo! You nailed it (the problem).
If the 24/7 news coverage would stop, maybe people wouldn't feel the need for attention. It's our "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" society. Everybody has to have that 15 minutes of fame
Nope. That's like saying a love of cars is the root cause of drunk driving.
Keeping the guns out of the hands of lunatics and wack-a-doodles is the challenge - no how badly the liberals want to disarm lawful gun owners..
Florida Sen. Bill Nelson says there are "many" dead at the school.
This is truly heartbreaking!!! I was on my way to pick up my oldest daughter; a Junior at our HS, when I heard the news on the radio. They had a kid speaking to the station and was saying that he knew of 3 dead, 2 of which were outside his classroom door. I am just now home and turning on the news so I am not totally up to speed. I have 3 daughters, one in each of the schools here in my Ga county... High, Middle, and Elementary. I CANNOT fathom or wrap my brain around this!!!! I have not read through the comments yet, this is NOT a political issue and shame on anyone who makes it one!
If I find someone making it a political issue I will pass along your concerns to them.
You do t have to be a smarty pants....or passive aggressive.....
Morning...Once again I turn the radio on here and another mass school shooting in the States is unfolding....Have no idea what the answer is...even if there ever will be one. The souls that are lost, their families will never be the same again...forever in a world of pain as someone from their family is missing. From across the Pacific we shake our heads in total bewilderment..what the hell are these "shooters" thinking?? Has it got to the stage where these "shooters" now look upon it all as a game? Trying reach the highest score as they try and out do one another??...We watch with sadness and pain for our friends across the Pacific..Especially when they start showing the names and faces of the lost...America, we grieve with you.....
They happen so often it's almost a back burner issue, not even worth reporting.
My wife is a teacher at MSD. I just brought her home safely, although she is obviously quite shaken. We live less than a mile from the school, and had to park a half mile down the road and walk the rest of the way.
From the initial reports, the gunman murdered 3 of her friends. Whether or not these are confirmed, it's not going to be a very good week, month or year. The school will probably be closed until next week. From this standpoint, I don't know how it will ever be the same.
Never the same! I am so sorry! I cannot fathom what your wife or you are going through! Thankful she is OK, and hope her co workers are as well. Thoughts and prayers for you and your wife!
I think she's a bit numb now. The phone is ringing off the hook, so she's been occupied by retelling her story over and over again. That's probably some very good therapy. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.
Give my best wishes to your wife. Give her a great big hug from me .Miss Molly and Waldo say to give some big wet sloppy kisses from them. They claim dig kisses are the best medicine at times like this .
Thank you so much for your wishes. Percy is busy washing her face this evening. No worries.
I'm so sorry. I'm glad your wife is safe. I know you will take good care of her
She is physically fine. I don't think it's going that well otherwise. This morning, she went to the Parkland Library to meet up with a group of teachers. They'll commiserate, and hopefully find a way to settle down and start to move on a little. I'm not hopeful in the short term, but she's a strong woman. She'll persevere, one way or the other.
Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.
Sorry this horror has directly impacted your wife, those she works with and students she may personally know. A life-changing event to be certain. May she be surrounded with the love of family and friends now and in preparation of returning to work.
Thank you very much for your wishes, thoughts and hopes.
My heart goes out to you both. You need to be her rock during the difficult times ahead. I can't speak for everyone on NT, but I for one will keep you both in my prayers.
I shall do my very best, hoping that it will be enough. Thank you for your positive thoughts.
Could this be the first time such a tragedy from a mass gun-killing touched one our NT family? Thank God, or the Creator, or whatever, that your wife survived it. Let's hope she gets over the trauma quickly.
Thanks for your good wishes, Buzz.
I am so truly sorry that your wife had to have such a mentally and emotionally traumatic experience, and finding it hard to deal with. I am very glad that she was not among the victims, and the loss of her friends in this terrifying event is sure to leave its scars in many ways. I hope that she will be able to get the professional help she will need to help her deal with her experience and the loss of her friends to such a terrible situation.
I will keep her in my prayers and thoughts. May the Creator grant her strength and peace.
All very true, RW. I know your thoughts and prayers will help us get to where we need to be. Thank you.
glad she is OK
Thank you for your positive thoughts, Charger.
JP - I cannot imagine the fear you felt as you rushed to your wife. I'm saddened that your wife was exposed to such a horrible tragedy that she will be connected to forever. I hope she will find peace again.
Thank you for your positive thoughts. This will take time, and hopefully she'll come out whole on the other side.
I was thinking of visiting America one of these days, so do you think these will be enough for me to have to be safe there? I hope I can buy them over the internet, because there is nowhere where I am that sells guns, and nobody but the army and police have them.
In related news Remington just filed for bankruptcy . Apparently the Trump regime doesn't spawn the same abject terror in the hearts of the guns, god and bible crowd as the Obama admin did.
Maybe what Remington needs to do is market a 60-round per second semi-auto which can be easily concealed in a school lunchbox, or a Mickey Mouse backpack which also holds a 1,000 round belt? That way these kids can properly defend themselves.
Physically impossible.
Who knew that 13-round per second bump stocks would one day be a possibility to evade the laws against automatics?
An even higher rate could be achieved by physically isolating part of the trigger mechanism from the rest of the gun in order to reduce the mass of the moving trigger element which "bumps" against one's trigger finger in response to the recoil. So it would still be one shot per trigger pull but at a much higher cycle rate than a bump stock.
I think they meant minute.
13 rounds per second is a far cry from 60 rounds a second, for a semi-automatic. And again, that's a physical impossibility. While modern individual assault rifles (as opposed to the fake moniker assault weapon) can be found with rate of fire approaching 1000 rounds per minute, those weapons are designed with different BCG (Bolt Carrier Groups) than the AR style weapon. The AR BCG, based on the military M-16 could not achieve, even with the modifications you think would help, the best you could achieve is 750 rounds a minute, or 12.5 rounds per second.
Your dream of 60 rounds a second, equates to 3600 rounds per minute. To achieve that rate of sustained fire, you would need a rotating barrel design, or make it a crew served weapon.
Even the kind of bump stock used in NV can achieve up to 800 rounds per minute but you'd run out of clip first, so what you really want for school use is a belt-fed auto since it's designed for high firing rates and doesn't have the same overheating and reload issues.
Exactly. Come out with a version which can fit in a child's lunchbox and you've got a guaranteed market in the red state school districts.
Thank God in the states we have a constitutional right to protect ourselves from an oppressive Government. But you should be safe just watch yourself around Triggered democrats. just agree with them you will be safe.
That's a myth. What's your pistol supposed to do against a tank or even an M2 0.50 cal belt driven automatic?
Ever read Sun Tzu? The North Vietnamese did, remember them? They were a small force compared to us, how did that war turn out?
Lol wow. You really think your rifle is going to stop the US military should it ever turn on the citizenry? That is so cute.
"Military actions are battles of attrition. He with the most numbers will invariably win."
True until the true advent of WMDs. Numbers don't matter when you can kill millions in a matter of seconds to weeks while doing little to nothing militarily.
And by true WMDs I really mean ICBMs.
No, Vietnam was lost on the battle field by generals who didn't have enough sense to figure out what the enemy was up to.
Not a good analogy Galen, considering that Shrekk is arguing that the lightly equipt gun owner demographic of the US would not be able to stand up to tanks. Last I heard, the VC and NVA had precious few tanks at their disposal.
That is the point I am making, yes, the VC didn't have tanks but, who won the war, the people without tanks, Sun Tzu taught them very well.
Which means you just shot down Shrekk's argument. You don't think some of us haven't read Sun Tzu?
"In the midst of chaos, there is also opportunity"
I've read Sun Tzu so, I know others have as well. I'm also an amateur student of history, the U.S. came into existence because the people took on one of the major military's of the time and, won. However, I'm still figuring out how someone with three hundred guns is going to carry all of them into battle though and, I keep getting this picture in my head of someone standing there with an AR-15 facing down a tank, I still chuckle over that one.
Not much of a worry with Posse Comitatus but One wonders what a “belt driven” M-2 50 Cal is. I’ve fired the recoiled operated version but never the belt driven one.
sounds scary ....
Sorry - that should read "belt fed."
look up liberator pistol from WW2, and your thinking it would be a head on fight such as in korea and sometimes VN, that would be a mistake .
If it ever came down to it government forces would have a few issues to overcome , first and formost is , would US military members follow orders to fire on US citizens? If I were a betting man , I would say its a 50/50 split some would , some would refuse , enough to be a problem, so much so that the ones that would , most likely would have to be watching their backs against the ones that wouldn't . best ending , the military stands down and does nothing and leaves it to the alphabet agencies of the government, but they would also have the same problems.
another issue they would have to contend with is terrain knowledge, oh they have maps , sat images , gps and the like , but the real knowledge of what really there would be in the hands of the locals .
Now if your thinking some grand incident that settles it once and for all, wrong , it will be worse than VN, Iraq, Afghan, and throw into the mix it will involve 3rd and 4th generation warfare, some ex military here will know exactly what I am talking about , there will be no safe havens , no green zones , there would be no exemptions on who is or is not a legitamite target. they wont go for the foot slogger , but those that give that person the order , and go up the chain from there , and as I said , it wont just be them it will be their families as well. there wont be any uniforms or any of that , it will be just everyday people dressed like they always do .
And that is just the very TIP of the iceberg that is 3rd or 4th generation warfare .
as for numbers ? how many gun owners are there? how many employed by the government alphabet agencies that are actually armed? Like someone already said , if guns and gun owners were really the problem, you would already know it , with the amount of arms in civilian hands with how much ammunition that is already out there......does Custer remind you of anything?
why do you think people in the military will let/help the military attack their families? people who will die for god and country to protect their families do not suddenly think it is OK to attack their families
the avg foot soldier in the us military will not turn on civilians. if given that order the military will turn on the ones who gave that order.
there are no safe spaces in the military. just wall to wall rightwingers, bitter clingers and bible thumpers, who know exactly what an illegal order sounds like. the few liberals in the military who would agree to shoot our people would not make it thru the first day
there will be no help or mercy for the ones who follow or try to give such illegal orders.
the US civilian population is the largest unorganized armed force in the world.
I'm a liberal and I would not have open fired on civilians. I'm loving the broad brush some of you have. Must have been a big sale on them at Lowe's
then your not as liberal as you think you are. good for you.
todays libs who are sects of socialists/communists would love the chance to shoot conservatives with the govts blessing.
do you also support free speech even when you do not like that speech? if you do? your moving further to the right every minute.
Cheers
you take that back
Breaks my heart. Just too many school shootings lately....what is wrong with people!
At least 16 dead in school shooting in Florida, according to CNN.
Mass murder.
To no one's surprise, the murder weapon has been identified as an AR-15 style rifle.
LOL, love your font style....js
Exactly. We shouldn't even try to prevent mass murder.
17
Still shy of the record. He should have put a little more effort into it.
I will not shed anything resembling a tear over this. I will not wring my hands. I will not wipe my brow. Just desserts. "We," clearly get what we deserve because "we" clearly are dumbfounded on how we have come to be in this position. If I, or any of my loved ones, are ever killed due to this kind of violence, I guess I, and them, will just be another dumb STATISTIC! I remember that old saying a few decade back about not becoming a "damn statistic." Now, our hands are tied (by law).
Who knew there are problems in the United States that defy solution?! . . .??
Apparently the 2nd Amendment is a suicide contract.
Too bad Americans aren't as smart as Australians on this issue.
Ok.....They can buy on the black market. Lets get rid of the 2nd, that will make it all better! Just like prohibition. Lets ban drugs and make them illegal, that will make it all better. Making things illegal doesn't make things better. People who sell guns on the black market don't care how old the person is, money talks.... lets take away money! Honestly, there is NOTHING the government can do to stop anything.... there will always be a black market and there will always be one side blaming the other.... This is not a political issue..... You can make it one all you want. We can put all the restrictions and laws.... is it going to help???? IS IT?
Uh...yeah...
Morning Skrekk..We have guns here they are not banned...as many over there think..We buy, sell, have shootings, armed robberies, home invasions etc etc...We too have had mass shootings..Yes we changed the gun laws on what you can buy and how many bullets it can hold and how fast it can fire..But we still own and have guns in Australia....The main thing here though we have a totally different mentality towards guns compared with the US. Always have and always will...You can't compare us to the States as we are chalk and cheese...And to be honest that suits me down to the ground...One mass shooting was enough for us. That is not to say it will never happen again, but we have tried to make it a hell of a lot harder for it to occur...So sorry for all the lost souls, their families and friends....
The US doesn't even have the will to try, particularly with the NRA-controlled GOP in charge of Congress.
.
Bowling for Columbine had a great comparison about the difference between US and Canadian culture despite very similar gun ownership patterns. A lot of it is driven by the MSM's desire to scare and traumatize their viewers.
Morning Uncle..why on earth are you rabbitting on about suicide rates?? No one here expected them to drop, no one here expected the murder rate to drop or armed robberies or anything else..What we did expect to drop is wiping out 35 people in one hit...And so far that has not re occurred since...How many have occurred over there since??? As I have said previously we are out to stop "mass" shootings. It is not about one person deciding to take one's own life...We get so sick of you mob dragging us into your gun debates etc and comparing us with the States...On guns, we are nothing alike...never have been and never will be...
Morning XD..Yes I guess in the respect you are right...The tyranny of distance has done that to us...If we waited around for something to happen, then it would never would..The Motherland was a long way away in the 1770's etc...We do tend to just get on with it as we are on own in many respects...We help the Kiwi's and they us as it is to far for anyone else to do anything...It is really hard to pin point what it is with the States and guns though...you have us perplexed over it and hence we just put it down to the "mentality" as we are at a loss to explain it otherwise....So sorry for your country facing this situation yet again.....
Then let's go the other route, give everyone a gun at birth and, all the ammo they will ever need, everyone carry's a gun, concealed or, not, get rid of all the police and, other law enforcement, any dispute can be handled with the gun on your hip. Won't that be fun?
Don't be sorry, no one here is.
Read GaJinns post, the one that I responded to, that is the exact opposite of what I said in mine and, is my response to what was posted in GaJinns post.
Most of the statistics I've seen are based on a "per 100,000 population", so does that not clarify the REAL difference?
At the time Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy you could buy a gun through an advertisement in a magazine, no gun check, no waiting period, that is the way he got his gun that he used to kill Kennedy. Try doing the same thing today.
Strongly disagree with your statement...sounds like you have a case of "familiarity breeds contempt"???
only way that can happen today is through a private sale , BUT and here is the big but , even during a private sale ( person to person) , the seller cannot sell if they know or suspect the person is prohibited by law from purchasing a firearm, if they do they have broken federal law .
there are over 20,000 federal , state and local gun laws on the books , some work some don't , but not all are enforced , before adding more , start enforcing all that exist , weed out those ineffective , and consider what actually MIGHT have a chance of working.
Wow, you really took this and ran with it, huh? Look at you go!!!! (a line from "ELF") anyhow....I happen to have an "arsenal" as you all like to say....(pretty sure if the shit hits the fan you wont be "offended" by it) who friggen cares..... I have it to protect my family and every single member of my family knows how to use my "arsenal" properly. We have all passed safety tests etc.... is that up to your standards? We enjoy going to a range to shoot and I carry when I go to nursing school and when I go to the grocery store.... You will NEVER see me being someone on TV who said "I wish I could have done more".....I will be the one on TV saying I saved "X" amount of people. Maybe one of those people saved was you or someone in your family..... I'm the person in the grocery store you want to say hi to
I could care less if you have an "arsenal" or, if you own only one gun. Here's a fact for you, black market guns don't come from a "black market" factory, they come from people like you who get their homes broken into and, have their "arsenal" taken from them.
To be honest, I couldn't give a shit about suicide rates. It's part of the article.
So we should get rid of all our guns so that if our home get's broken into the robbers wont have anything to steal, right? Because, hey, that's all GaJenn has to worry about. Nobody would possibly break in and assault her, or kill her with her own kitchen knife right?
Actually here in Georgia, if you buy a firearm online, you have to have it shipped to a dealer(they do a background before it's shipped), and the dealer does a background check. The dealer has to be a fed approved. There are no legit online "hand to hand" (is that a thing?) firearm deals. The background check has to be done before you can pickup the firearm. I know, I know, I'm in a red state so we can get whatever..... All of my fire arms are legit and registered and LOCKED up in a numeric coded safe....
"People like me???" WOW!!! YOU know NOTHING about me! I have my "arsenal" locked away responsibly so go pound sand.
Black market guns come from "people like me"????? Thats a new one....why? because I own responsibly? That is a new one.....LOL
You actually think there is a "factory" for black market guns????
LOL!!!! They can try to steal the safe..... They wiill be shot while trying seeing how it's about 800 lbs.... SMH.....Silly dudes trying to steal a 800 lb safe and not worry about the chick packin'. "We'll worry about the lil lady after..."
I'll type real slow so you understand. Locks are to keep honest people out, they don't keep out thieves, your guns are gold to a thief, if they break into your house they can steal your guns and, sell them on the black market or, use them in a crime.
No, I don't think there is a "black market factory", however, with your simplified idea of gun ownership it seems you do think that. Cheers.
Shona1, isn't Australia about 1/10th the size of the USA. What percentage of the country's population live in 3 cites? You're correct, there's no comparison. Australia is much more strict in their immigration than the USA. They don't put up with people causing trouble in neighborhoods like they do here in the USA. If this country treated criminals like Australia does, the ACLU would go crazy.
I don't know if it is the same now, but, when I lived in No Virginia from 2004-2008, it was the same as you stated it is in GA in regards to shipping and receiving guns. Mother walked on in 2005 and I flew back to San Diego for her interment. After I flew back to Virginia my Father wrote me that she had wanted me to have her little Derringer. She had carried it with her for more than 30 years, and knowing I was living alone she wanted me to have it for protection. When my Father went to send it to me by UPS he was told that it would have to be sent to a gun dealer first for a background check. The small town I was living in only had one gun dealer, so I sent him the information where to send it. When the gun dealer received the gun he called and let me know. I went to the gun shop and gave him all the necessary information for the background check and a few days later I was able to pick up the gun.
When I later moved back to San Diego CA I had to go through the same process with the gun dealer there. I still have it, and it more of a sentimental remembrance now than a weapon. I've had the firing pin removed for added safety.
You do realize the vast majorities of these are not committed by immigrants right?
I guess you know for a fact that this kid is an immigrant? Of course not, the only reason you have mentioned it is because his last name is Cruz, no other reason.
They're coming to get you so make sure your arsenal is well cleaned and oiled.
always
Thanks for the reminder though
red state here as well , no registration required, hell don't even need states permission to carry openly or concealed.
what I did mention was the federal requirements for a sale done privately person to person in state, now other states have laws that have different requirements.
A/noon six..There are approx 24 million of us running around down here..No where near the population of the States...Approx 80% of our population live in the cities around the coast....
What is at the top of my comment was what I was responding to.
My comment was:
Shona1, isn't Australia about 1/10th the size of the USA. What percentage of the country's population live in 3 cites? You're correct, there's no comparison. Australia is much more strict in their immigration than the USA. They don't put up with people causing trouble in neighborhoods like they do here in the USA. If this country treated criminals like Australia does, the ACLU would go crazy.
Evidently neither neither of you read Shona1's comment. Communication is difficult. Don't make it any more difficult than it is. I feel I must make it clear I wasn't talking about an immigrant as I wonder if you will read or understand this comment any better than you did the last one. No offense if Shona isn't talking about living in Australia compared to the USA.
Thanks shona1. You're correct, there is no comparison between the USA and Australia. I believe that nearly 80% of your population is contained in 3 cities. The metropolitan population of NYC is nearly as populated as the entire country of Australia. You're right. It's apples to oranges. And as far as I have been told, Australians don't put up with all this weird thought processes so many do here in the USA. We like to give them room to burn things down and destroy things. Not so in Australia as I understand it. Australia doesn't have all the advocates trying to defend even the worst of the lot like we do here. Trouble makers are treated like trouble makers in Australia, not so here, they have all kinds of support, plus I would imagine the MSM hopefully is a little more honest.
Evening Six...We have quite a few cities..Perth in Western Australia, Darwin in the Northern Territory, Adelaide in South Australia, Brisbane in Queensland, Sydney in New South Wales, Melbourne in Victoria, Hobart in Tasmania and our Capital city Canberra in the A.C.T (Australian Capital Territory)...So yes 80% of the population can be found in these cities...."Political correctness" is also creeping in here as well, so you are not alone.
I believe there are many more than you know who share your despair. Each time we collectively suffer another of these seemingly endless tragedies we are told the same things, "Do not even think about politicising this tragedy", "There is nothing we can do about it anyway", and, "Get over it Sissys! Second Amendment Rules". We told to utterly dismiss all of that, "Well Regulated militia", stuff and to basically get over it until the next time and then rinse and repeat. There are thousands of heavily armed overly medicated nutters out there on point waiting for "Them" to come get their guns. We are all always just one random heavily armed stranger's mental breakdown away from becoming victims ourselves. One thing is for sure, being the most armed nation in the world has not made us any safer. Also, no matter how some may try to frame it there just are not that many knife wealding mass killers. Nobody ever killed a fifty people and wounded hundred more with a damn hammer. There are more guns than People in this country and so obviously a lot of those guns are not being accounted for and nobody know how to put that genie back into its bottle...
I am sitting here trying to remember what we were doing on the whole as a country just before all these "concentrated" shootings took hold. Perhaps before say, Columbine High School in Columbine, Colorado.
A student says the shooter used to come to school with guns. He is seen on social media displaying guns. My guess is he has some kind of obsession with guns. Not that hard to figure out.
That is not what they said.....Be honest!!!! I AM LISTENING TO THE OTHER STUDENTS NOW!!!
hell John , I use to go to school (HS) with a gun in my car, use to go hunting before school, go to school , then go hunting again after school, but that was a number of years ago, AND nothing was thought ill of it .
I do have to wonder what has changed in society from then to today that made such a drastic difference.
Let's guess. The advent of RW AM talk radio, Fox News and internet chat forums. Nah! It was video gaming...
I would say a few things have changed. 1) mental health care is either non existent or extremely expensive in this country. 2) we have become a society dependent on drugs to solve all of our problems. 3) there are almost as many firearms in the US as there are people. And 4) social media.
That describes exactly what I use to do growing up. I didn't have to ask my parents permission. It was just a part of my childhood growing up. I don't recall anyone doing anything like what is happening today. I think we have societal problems we didn't have back then.
Thrawn , I think your response is closer to the truth than JBBs so I will simply disregard his as partisan hackery designed to illicite a response.
yes the difference is the pharms being used today as verses what was done back when I was younger to bend the mind to what is suppose to be the norm , mothers little helpers and such . Another problem as I stated further down is the system not always getting the information it needs to work which is why I states some of the things I said there , some of the possible solutions already exist IF and a pretty big if at that all the I's are dotted and the Ts are crossed , the laws on denying any innumerated right , are pretty simple , and already exist , it just seems no one wants to go through the required motions that could save lives.
some laws might have to be changed , but no new ones are really required to effect the same results .
Personally I think that solving this problem will need to be an effort across multiple fronts. And IMO one of those fronts needs to be addressing the second amendment. Aside from that though, there needs to be an increased effort to help people without just throwing them on a pill regiment, and we seriously need social media companies to really start cracking down on bullying (and probably adding more parental controls). This rise in mass shootings seems to be a combination of things IMO, but in order to address the problem we need to be willing to make adjustments to all the contributing factors.
by addressing the 2nd , you mean changing it , which requires another constitutional amendment to do so , and there are 2 ways to do that , through congress, which is doubtful since it wouldn't pass ratification by the required number of states , and a constitutional convention which faces the same problem of ratification ,AND the added peril that the entire constitution could be thrown out in convention just as the articles of confederation were , don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't trust the jackwagons we have now a days in a convention setting, I'm more likely to trust an idiot , with a sledgehammer and a watermelon.
I know how to change or replace a constitutional amendment, hence why I have given up on this situation ever being resolved.
You can give up if you want , me I will continue to work towards what I think is sensible , attainable measures , such as some of the ones I mentioned and others I m considering ,such as making sure that all relevant information is submitted to the NICS database so the system can work , grandpa always said you put crap info into a computer , you get crap info out so don't be surprised if the info is bad, and he died before the PC age. another as I mentioned is relooking at Hippa and what drs are allowed to do now , vs what they could be reporting for use to use due process and the existing legal system we have to help mitigate the issue , it wont be solved overnight or stop immediately, its taken a while for this to come around , it will take a while to come up with anything that will fix it sufficiently staying within the frame work of the Constitution .
It has been my pleasure having an intelligent , and polite discussion and discourse with you on the matter even if we cannot agree on how to come to a favorable outcome.
A 19-year-old former student has been identified as the suspect in a shooting at a Florida high school that has left at least 17 people dead and several others wounded.
Nikolas Cruz, who was previously identified as a threat to students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School was arrested after the shooting, the Miami Herald reports. He was expelled from the school for disciplinary reasons, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at a press conference. Israel said they are examining “very, very disturbing” social media posts they have uncovered. Some of those posts, confirmed by Heavy, show Cruz holding weapons and talking about shooting targets as therapy.
anyone else go to the link and notice the orange tip on one of the "handguns", those are usually associated with airsoft guns. and a little further down another hand gun is of a pellet gun design I myself had until my ex son in law took it apart and lost some pieces.
kids over 18 , so no doubt he was able to pass the NICS for the assortment of long guns .
Our society has already spoken relative to gun ownership, weapon type, magazine type, mental health privacy and all the talking points that we discuss after each and every mass shooting.
Screening currently done at airports and government buildings will have to be implemented in all schools across America. Discussions regarding National Security should focus on our children and monies spent to protect same.
Why stop there? We start patting down 5 year olds as they come into school to see if they brought their Mac 10 that day. Maybe they have an AR-15 hidden in their lunch box. Oooo, here's a good one from the past, (Sandy Hook), arm all the teachers, I'm sure they're all stable enough not to start shooting kids.
Did you have a better solution to offer?
We lived in an armed society, mental health issues abound ~ I'm sick of "talking" about these two issues as our children are being slaughtered over and over again.
So am I. I've seen this happen since Columbine, I lived in Colorado when that happened and, had friends who had kids in that school that day. I wish I did have a solution but, it isn't my job to provide one, it is up to the people in Congress to do that but, they don't seem interested in doing that since most of them get money from the gun lobby for their political campaigns. Let's start there.
Considering that Ronald Reagan closed the facility's that dealt with people in need of those same drugs and, provided them housing until they were stable enough to return to society or, kept them under lock and, key when they weren't able to be in society maybe you should look at the conservatives for the answer.
Many people have brought up the decline in our mental health care system as a reason these things keep happening. Congress just has no interest in funding such a silly thing.
Not unlike gun rights, addressing the drug issue is fraught with privacy rights. These two key components of mass murders are surrounded by protections given to us as American's.
While some don't want to be told what weapons they can own/operate, others don't want government meddling in mental health issues and imposing restrictions on that population.
WTF?!!! Not YOUR job to come up with or provide a solution? Are you a citizen with all the rights that come with that? if so then you also have a responsibility to try to think of a solution to pass on to those you elect to represent you and your state in congress for consideration.
Keep in mind any contrived solution must pass the constitutional smell test though , that means it HAS to involve due process of existing and future law , that it must not infringe on any of the rights already enjoyed by those that choose to exersize those right as long as they abide by the laws already in existence.
The only solutions I HAVE seen since columbine is punative in nature against those inclined to not break the law already , but could be forced to because of disagreement with what they see as a law that does absolutely nothing to solve any of the problems they are suppose to address.
Now if you want to say that unfortunately you , like myself cannot come up with a solution that covers all the criteria I mentioned , I can accept that , because I cant think of anything either , but to say its not your job? if your a citizen and enjoy the rights of citizenship, that dog doesn't hunt .
What I have come to is this. I've been around longer than the Columbine shooting and, the same things we are talking about now, we talked about then and, guess what, nothing has happened in all that time, NOTHING, we talk and, talk and, talk and, do nothing then when something like that happens we offer sympathy to the family's and, act all sad over it happening then we talk and, talk and, talk and, talk and, nothing happens, nothing changes. You come with something that will save lives, other than "good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns" please, tell your Congressman.
Maybe we shouldn't.
You said a mouth full there Lynne.
Our society has spoken, and the consensus is that this is perfectly okay. As a society we have no problem with mass shootings being a daily occurance. We have no problem with kids being blown away at school. I mean we have done exactly nothing to prevent these sort of things, so clearly we are perfectly okay with it. Honestly I just wish everyone would stop with the "thoughts and prayers" bullsh!t. That is really the most annoying part about all of it. If everyone who said that garbage really cared they would be pushing to do something to stop these sorts of incidents.
I truly hardly care anymore. The country has spoken, and this sort of thing is a okay. I personally would ban all semi and fully automatic weapons, period. And yes, I know exactly what those terms mean. But that will never happen, and instead we seem to always do the opposite, so at this point f*(k it. Your kids get blown away at school, that's called freedom baby, quit whining. Honestly, this sort of thing is hardly even newsworthy anymore, they may as well just include it in the morning traffic report.
What is your solution 9mm?
I agree, society has spoken. My metal detector and x-ray scenario on it's face seem absurd, but I've yet to hear any idea that will help protect our children once they enter school buildings.
Reading your words expressing you no longer care grieves my very being. Do you not have any family members...children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren any young people attending school?
A parents worse nightmare is burying a child, many on this sight can attest. Every dead child stirs the core I've lived with for 20 years...I will never accept this as our norm, continuing to look for solutions is the responsibility of every American.
I have 2 daughters that will be starting school within the next 2 years, and sadly I am a tad bit afraid to send them. But I have also accepted the reality of this country, no one cares. Sure if they were murdered at school I would be wrecked and do everything I possibly could to kill the person who did it (assuming they didn't take the bitch way out), but I would also accept that no one else cares. Their deaths would be entirely meaningless. They would just be blood for the tree of liberty in the minds of some people. It is f&*king sick, but that is America.
You missed the snark, but he's expressing the reality of America.
The school would love to have you on the PTA...how about a School Board position? We can impact the school lives of our children through involvement. I was active in the school system with two daughters and one granddaughter. Did they always want my voice...no, but they did work for me and every other taxpayer. Like any other system, if you agree with them they love your input yet push back hard when you don't. Stand fast.
Evidently I did. Reality of today doesn't have to be the reality of tomorrow.
Their solution is always the same, "more guns!!!", which is clearly working REALLY well.. /sarc
Oh this is way beyond school boards. The solution to this problems lies at the constitutional amendment level, and there appears to be absolutely no motivation in the country to address it.
How about this as a start? revisit HIPPA, allow Drs that prescribe some of the drugs that have some of the more nefarious side effect have to report that , if needed due to an adverse reaction it can be brought before the courts using existing laws on the books to temporarily deny that 2nd amendment right ( that would have helped in columbine , Aurora and a few other instances ) , how about making sure that every and all convictions even if they are plead out to lesser crimes that would make one prohibited from ownership have to be reported to be included to the NICS, close the cracks , that might have stopped the gabby giffords incident .
Most schools already have an armed officer inschool dealing with truancy and problems that arise during the day (sadly the days of just sitting in the principals office until mom or dad come get you are over , now there is usually a school resourses officer on site .
Metal detectors have been used forever even before these school shootings , but they are a sad reality and commentary on the times we live , but they do for the most part work.
If the district or school , following the law decide to allow those teachers that are willing and capable to be armed do so , what criteria is up to the school or district , training could follow that of the local LE departments and they would have to qualify right along side of them.
But all this , as common sense as it sounds , has been poopooed by those of the total ban idea .
I have a problem with teachers carrying guns in school, unless of course they are willing to undergo a psych evaluation before hand and, after at different intervals.
cant disagree with what you think that of course is up to the districts and the teachers themselves to decide if that's what is needed , and if that is something they would be willing to do arming the teachers of course as I said , would be only if the teacher volunteered it themselves , no district can make them , but they can allow it under the rules they set.
Being a teacher who worked in one of the worst crime neighborhoods (at the time) in Brooklyn and knows what it's like to remove two live guns from her students, I have a huge issue with teachers being armed. First of all, we are teachers, not sharp shooters. The risk for accidental shooting is so great when panic sets in with the students. They are the greatest X factor.
I'll tell you a little story. I had a whole class freak out and run around, uncontrolably freaked out because a mouse jumped out of a closet Imagine a kid shooting and your students freaking out? In the mayam, what if you shoot one of your students?
Sorry, this is a job best left to those who are trained for it.
One of the reasons I really don't want grandchildren
I think teachers could be trained, especially with the enhanced training they're doing in Arkansas now.
But...and this is yuge....the school will need to advertise that its teachers are packing. Otherwise, you get a shooter, the shooter is going to get off at least one round before anybody can stop him. Armed teachers should be treated as a deterrent not just another layer of security.
Meh, whatever. Just an average day in the US.
As much as I hate to admit it, you're right. I HATE that you are right, but...you're right.
Trust me, I hate being right about this as well. I kinda hate myself for becoming so calloused, but after a certain amount of time, when you hear about these things day after day, how can you possibly still feel awful and shocked each and every time? Honestly, with this one, I was upset that they interrupted Olympic coverage for this, that is how much this constant sh!t has worn on me.
We get the government we deserve.
100% agree. Which is why as the US descends into an autocracy (Trump won't be the autocrat, but he is sowing the seeds) I will simply say we deserved it. When it happens, we will vote for it just like the Germans did in 1933.
FL has the death penalty and this was premeditated murder one. I hope they fast track this pos and fry him like a fritter.
Yep, so we can read about an identical story 2 weeks from now. America, the nation of problem solvers.
Freedumb!
This is just one example, Rick Scott has loosened the gun laws in Florida to the extreme. Florida is the new gun violence capital of the USA. Today? The result of those loose gun laws.
But I am sure that Rick Scott will say what he said after the Pulse nightclub shooting... "We should pray". Great idea Rick Scott, that really worked, you pathetic idiot.
Saw Rick Scott on tv tonight. That is one weird dude.
Mass shooting list for 2016. This is page one of nine.
I'm sure that thoughts and prayers will help.
To feel better? Sure. But as a solution it's completely worthless.
What?! You mean Congress' solution hasn't been working?!
And not a one of those laws has anything to do with this shooting. So if he had never passed them it would not have made any difference in this situation.
Thanks, you just proved my point. This shooting was completely legal. A real comfort for the parents im sure.
A list of mass shootings since 1982...
One thing that is obvious is that every year, there are more and more and more..
There's a children's prayer which needs to be updated for the modern era:
"If I die before recess I pray the NRA will clean up the mess."
Lol, perfect.
h, you think the NRA will shell out a dime for the clean up of their policies?
how is this the NRAs fault?
The NRA has been lobbying Congress to suppress responsible gun laws for decades and, they have campaigned against politicians who have advocated for responsible gun laws for decades as well.
Was supposed to be a response to 23. But since you asked, they are constantly pressuring politicians to make guns as widely available, to essentially anyone, as possible. So they are not innocent in this.
When they lobby to prevent laws that could prevent crime then yes, they are responsible.
Honestly, what is a "responsible" gun law?
As can be said for numerous lobbyist...They all do it. You can pick your sin, poison, etc... I choose the 2nd...a responsible one
When that organization actually has a significant amount of influence on members of congress regarding a specific issue and uses that to push a specific agenda, abso-f*(king-lutely. They are 100% a part of the problem, and 100% have some of that blood on their hands. Legally are they liable, no, ofr course not. But objectively and morally, without a doubt.
I blame the criminals, absolutely. I also blame their enablers.
What laws would have prevented this tragedy?
who was his enabler?
I don't know, maybe at least as regulated as a uterus or using your right to vote. Did you know Russia pours all kinds of money into the NRA?
Legal gun owners do NOT own this tragedy.
I didn't say they were, I said the organization that is the NRA is partly responsible. The people who decide what campaigns to fund and what legislation to push or oppose.
The NRA, the GOP, basically anyone that thinks guns should be easily available.
This makes no sense.... responsible gun laws and a regulated uterus??? Last time I checked, I could get an abortion without a background check, no questions asked for about $300 and no real names used. When I bought my S&W 9mm Shield, I had an extensive background check on BOTH my last names (maiden and married) and I could not pick it up for 2 weeks and I am in a RED state! How are these two comparable?
They don't think that.
The NRA lobbies for the people who want to keep their guns, you know the people who are law abiding citizens and aren't out there killing people, but want their guns to protect themselves. So it's not the NRA who is motivating the people, but the people who are motivating the NRA, somewhat like Planned Parenthood, the people who want to kill babies right up until they show their heads without any regulations against it. It's the people who are motivating Planned Parenthood, not the other way around.
Now this is somewhat inaccurate, because the NRA gets money from the people who want them to represent them just like Planned Parenthood gets money from people who support them. Both the NRA and Planned Parenthood become more financially enriched by being in the position they are representing their supporters.
Please do Explain "Responsible Gun Laws".
I follow the law .... what makes others NOT ?
From what I have seen, read and been through....we have BUNCHES and BUNCHES and BUNCHES and BUNCHES and BUNCHES of laws ALREADY on the books about guns.
Maybe be truthful and say you want ALL guns BANNED ?
The Brady Act, Obama's restriction to those who are mentally ill
which Trump got rid of as soon as he could. Obama's restriction could have prevented at least three of the mass shootings we have had in the past year.
The last 3 shooters were on S.S. ?
if you say the brady act, most people will think of the assault weapons bill of the Clinton era, which sunsetted on its own accord and didn't have the votes to be continued , and it didn't have the votes because by the time it did sunset , there were many work arounds the defined banned guns and accessories and studies had shown it actually had no effect.
as for the bringing SSI in line , reason that was never implemented except in concept and possibly fiat , was it had no due process recourse for those affected .
things still have to pass the constitutionality smell test to be implemented , even if done by executive fiat, but to reverse executive fiat only takes the next admin to have a phone and a pen....
It's time for another SNL ad for the perfume "Complicit."
The NRA and the GOP extends their thoughts and prayers.
Of course. Thoughts and prayers do so much to prevent these things.
The NRA, the GOP, basically anyone that thinks guns should be easily available.
legal guns are not as easily obtained as y'all think. I think this is grossly misconceived....
Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie ,lie ..... that is all you seem to do.
No one with a current court order for domestic abuse or similar violent offenses against family members or others can legally own a gun. Period
Please stop lying.
They don't think that.
We should call all high schools a uterus... Maybe then the right would be more willing to protect whats inside of them.
What a shitty response! To say any more, would risking a CoH violation. Bullshit.
watch the cowering little scum bag stand before a judge.
that guy is not long for this world and he knows it.
I hope Florida kills him very painfully, and extremely slow... they should drag a day out of that project.