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DeSantis Will Betray Ukraine for MAGA Votes

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  hallux  •  last year  •  104 comments

By:   Tom Nichols - The Atlantic

DeSantis Will Betray Ukraine for MAGA Votes

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Both Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis have signaled their willingness to sell out Ukraine to the Kremlin, and the Russians have gleefully taken notice. How could this be happening in the party of Ronald Reagan?

Taking the Bait

State governors are not usually experts on foreign policy, but those who intend to run for president are advised to at least brush up on the subject. Alas, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis did not get that memo. Last week, DeSantis declared Russia’s massive invasion—the largest operation in Europe since the defeat of the Nazis—to be a mere “territorial dispute,” and said that the war is thus not “a vital American national strategic interest.” This was too much for many elected Republicans and even for the editorial board of   The Wall Street Journal , who described the comments as “Ron DeSantis’s First Big Mistake.”

This shining opportunity to stumble came courtesy of the Fox News host Tucker Carlson, who a few weeks ago sent out questionnaires about Ukraine policy to a group of possible GOP presidential candidates. Carlson’s questions presented Republican contenders with a dilemma. On the one hand, many faithful MAGA voters, who make up the core of the GOP base, are regular viewers of Carlson’s show, and his questionnaire was a kind of early beauty pageant, an opportunity for Republican candidates to take a quick walk down the runway in front of MAGA World. On the other hand, Carlson is an irresponsible demagogue who has been exposed in the Dominion-lawsuit filings as a relentless opportunist who will bamboozle his own audience for ratings.

Since the war in Ukraine began more than a year ago, Carlson has gone on numerous unhinged rants against “ the D.C. war machine ,” meaning anyone who supports aiding Kyiv. (He even went  off the deep end about   me  a few weeks ago.) Carlson claims to just be asking questions, but on Ukraine, as on many other issues, he is located right in the heart of the fever swamps.

In addition to his own bizarre perorations, Carlson also occasionally relies on input from his guest  Douglas Macgregor , a retired Army colonel who for a hot second was an adviser to Trump’s last (acting) defense secretary, Christopher Miller, and whose nomination to be an ambassador  foundered in part because of a history  of weird and offensive statements. To give you some idea of the minefield awaiting GOP candidates, Macgregor went on  last night  about how the Ukrainians are getting “crushed,” and how the left has weakened the U.S. military to the point where it is almost useless. (The  Pentagon’s assessment  is a bit less gloomy, to say the least.) Carlson responded by asking, “[If America] became embroiled in a hot war with Russia, how long before you are arrested would it be, do you think, for saying what you just did?”

Even Macgregor didn’t bother answering that one, but it shows why, for the credible would-be candidates filling out Carlson’s questionnaire, there is no real advantage in saying anything of substance. And so, most of them didn’t, offering unexceptional responses composed mostly of political dryer lint: Kristi Noem blamed Joe Biden for being too weak to deter the Russians. Mike Pence said that regime change in Russia was up to the Russian people. Vivek Ramaswamy was more than happy to provide more detailed answers, but that is a luxury one can take while on the path to becoming a kind of GOP Andrew Yang. And Nikki Haley, in a classic cautious Nikki Haley move, waited until Carlson’s deadline for response had passed and the show on the subject had aired before answering the questions.

DeSantis, however, bit down on this giant hunk of bait, and his answers were   displayed on Carlson’s show   like a prize marlin.

Of course, this may have been DeSantis’s intent. He may well be   trying   to sound like an ill-informed isolationist, because he is trying to capture the MAGA voters who now support Trump. The former president is the undisputed world heavyweight champion of ignorant views, and if you’re going to take him on, you’d better have some stunningly ignorant views of your own to bring to the table. That’s what the Republican base wants.

DeSantis seems to know this all too well, which is likely why he’s been shoveling so much red meat out the front door of the governor’s mansion in Tallahassee to the MAGA cultural warriors. While covering his Trump-exposed flank on foreign policy, however, DeSantis has accidentally illustrated the problem of running for office in what used to be the party of Reagan: If you want to win the primary voters, you’ve got to reject everything you once believed.

Indeed, back in 2017, DeSantis the congressman but not yet the candidate—wanted to   be   Reagan. When he opposed Barack Obama’s efforts to initiate a “reset” with Russia, he noted that Democrats “viewed guys like me who are more of the Reagan school that’s tough on Russia as kind of throwbacks to the Cold War.” And   two years earlier , DeSantis was all about teaching the Russians a lesson for seizing Ukraine. He excoriated then-President Obama for being weak-kneed:



We in the Congress have been urging the president … to provide arms to Ukraine. They want to fight their good fight. They’re not asking us to fight it for them. And the president has steadfastly refused. And I think that that’s a mistake.


Well said, congressman. Perhaps you might have a talk with the current governor of Florida.

This pandering to the MAGA base is going to get worse, because Trump continues to dominate the GOP primary field. In some areas, this featherweight posturing will be repairable: Down the road, no one is likely to be fighting over whether first graders should be assigned college texts on “critical race theory.” In other cases, such as the destruction of Florida’s public universities, the damage will be more long-lasting.

But in foreign policy, amateurish pandering to Tucker Carlson’s audience is dangerous. The Russian media are already crowing that the next American president will throw Ukraine to the wolves, a belief that could lead the Kremlin to take even greater risks than bumping into drones. Many elected Republicans and GOP presidential contenders—despite their constant fear of offending Trump—seem to recognize this, to their credit. If only Ron DeSantis were one of them.


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Hallux
PhD Principal
1  seeder  Hallux    last year

What's next for neo-republicans? Channeling a 1970's version Jane Fonda?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Hallux @1    last year

cool, I'm very interested in knowing exactly who the maga russian collaborators are in america...

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @1.1    last year

They'd throw their own mothers under the bus.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
1.1.2  seeder  Hallux  replied to  devangelical @1.1    last year

There are several on NT already, I expect their numbers to multiply in the coming weeks and months.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Hallux @1.1.2    last year

I'll keep my "when the shit hits the fan hit list" updated... /s

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1.1.4  Sean Treacy  replied to  devangelical @1.1    last year

Okay senator McCarthy. Make sure you Add Obama to your little list

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.1.5  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.4    last year

So, are you now, or have you ever been, a member of The Tea Bagger MAGA Party?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.1    last year

damn after all these years of claiming such nonsense you STILL can't name any? 

Lol

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.7  cjcold  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.6    last year

YOU for one!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @1.1.7    last year
YOU for one!

Your post is the height of absurdity.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.1.9  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.8    last year

You have to understand that this one believes that anyone that does not toe his radical far left ideals are fascists (in which he can't define the term) and obviously now russian collaborators.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.10  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.8    last year

Lol ... more than one of those dimbulbs accused me of being a Russian bot.    A Cold War Marine.

Funny as hell .....

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.11  cjcold  replied to  devangelical @1.1.3    last year

Came here from the vine. Some folk are damn lucky for anonymity.

(including me)

If I were Perrie I would have a lengthy 'better dead' list.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  cjcold @1.1.11    last year

Were you a Huffington Post refugee when you found the vine?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.13  cjcold  replied to  bugsy @1.1.9    last year
(in which he can't define the term)

I own a dictionary. 

I own a smart phone.

Live in a tiny prairie town.

I know fascists and fascism.

You can look up the word as easily as I can.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @1.1.13    last year
I know fascists and fascism.

“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”

― Ronald Reagan

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1.19  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.14    last year

Part of this thread was removed for a slap fight. Stop it. Only warning.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Hallux @1    last year
What's next for neo-republicans? Channeling a 1970's version Jane Fonda?

Is there a republican candidate, current or upcoming, that would NOT throw Ukraine to Putin for the votes?  Current republican motto appears to be, "Power supersedes all other concerns".

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @1.2    last year

don't ALL politicians do things for votes?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.2.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.1    last year

don't ALL politicians do things for votes?

All politicians do not sell their soul, family, and country for votes, so no.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @1.2.2    last year
All politicians do not sell their soul, family, and country for votes, so no.

And just because someone disgruntled with Republicans doesn't mean the person sold anything at all.

Unless you can actually provide, well, you know---PROOF.

Do you have any or just guessing again?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.2.4  cjcold  replied to  Ozzwald @1.2    last year

Never met Jane but her brother was a friend back in the day.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.5  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @1.2.4    last year
Never met Jane but her brother was a friend back in the day.

I hope he wasn't a traitor like she was.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
1.2.6  pat wilson  replied to  cjcold @1.2.4    last year

He hung out with you in Kansas ?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.2.7  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.5    last year

When she came our town we welcomed her with about 100 of these yard signs:256

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.2.8  cjcold  replied to  Ozzwald @1.2    last year

Just as with Putin, American republicans are now insane.

Fascism is toxic to the brain!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.9  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @1.2.8    last year

Isn't it just great then that no fascists have a future in American politics?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.2.10  Jack_TX  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.1    last year
don't ALL politicians do things for votes?

Isn't that how republics are supposed to work?

Aren't elected representatives supposed to enact the will of the voters?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1.3  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hallux @1    last year
at's next for neo-republicans? Channeling a 1970's version Jane Fonda?

wow. If that's the way you feel about an American for simply not parroting the government line when money is involved, you must have really hated the Democrats who dared criticize the government's policy in Iraq or Afghanistan when actual American lives were at stake.  Was quislings too nice of a term for you to use? 

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
1.3.1  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.3    last year

If you do not realize who DeSantis was pandering to on Tucker's show, I can't help you.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1.3.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hallux @1.3.1    last year

Nice deflection.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.3  Tessylo  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.3.2    last year

That's all you have.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
1.3.4  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.3.2    last year

Even though it was not one, glad you liked it.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.4  devangelical  replied to  Hallux @1    last year

republicans and russians, kindred spirits with common goals...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.4.1  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.4    last year
republicans and russians, kindred spirits with common goals...

An ignorant post. jrSmiley_115_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.4.2  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @1.4.1    last year

[deleted]

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2  evilone    last year

DeSantis sold his soul long before he was in Congress, so selling out some other country is the easy part now. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1  Texan1211  replied to  evilone @2    last year

lol.

where do y'all get this stuff from 

?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
2.1.1  Right Down the Center  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1    last year

Anal cortex comes to mind

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.2  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1    last year

I want to know who their handlers are because these people pass on doozies that these guys lap up readily.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
2.1.3  cjcold  replied to  bugsy @2.1.2    last year

[Deleted]

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.4  bugsy  replied to  cjcold @2.1.3    last year

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3  Ronin2    last year

Ukraine is not a part of the US. Ukraine is not a part of NATO. We have no defense pact with Ukraine. We don't even have an unwritten agreement with them to defend them like Taiwan. 

So no one is selling anyone out.

What people are questioning is just how much damn money are we going to waste on a country with a non Democratic, pro Fascist, corrupt as all get out government? One that is arresting political opponents; shutting down opposition media; and restricting religion. Didn't learn anything from Afghanistan or Iraq? Why some seem to care so damn much about Ukraine's border integrity when they don't give a shit about our own?

If anyone is that damn eager to support Ukraine; then jump on a plane and head on over there. Ukraine is taking all volunteers. They need people for their war with Russia. I am sure you will get slightly better training Russian recruits now receive before being thrown into the meat grinder. Just be careful if you aren't European white; you might run afoul of their fascists.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
3.1  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Ronin2 @3    last year

You sound in need of a vacation, I suggest Hungary ... maybe Tucker can give you some advice on where to stay.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.1  JBB  replied to  Hallux @3.1    last year

How far is Budapest from St Petersburg?

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
3.1.2  seeder  Hallux  replied to  JBB @3.1.1    last year

1-1/2 sharpened flagpoles.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.1.3  Ronin2  replied to  Hallux @3.1    last year

I suggest you go to Ukraine. They really, really, really, want you.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
3.1.4  cjcold  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.3    last year

It becomes clear now who the Putin supporters actually are.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @3.1.4    last year
It becomes clear now who the Putin supporters actually are.

Clear as mud.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  cjcold @3.1.4    last year

Yes, it's so obvious.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
3.1.7  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Tessylo @3.1.6    last year

Yes, it's so obvious.

So you should be able to handle the information adequately. 
 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
3.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @3.1.1    last year

A day and a half by train, 24 hours driving. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2  Tessylo  replied to  Ronin2 @3    last year

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.3  Right Down the Center  replied to  Ronin2 @3    last year
Ukraine is not a part of the US. Ukraine is not a part of NATO. We have no defense pact with Ukraine. We don't even have an unwritten agreement with them to defend them like Taiwan. 
 It seems some have changed the definition of "selling out".

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
3.3.1  cjcold  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.3    last year

[removed]

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
3.3.2  cjcold  replied to  cjcold @3.3.1    last year

[removed]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.3  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @3.3.2    last year

removed for context by charger

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.5  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Ronin2 @3    last year
We have no defense pact with Ukraine. We don't even have an unwritten agreement with them to defend them like Taiwan. 

The fall of Ukraine could expose the connections Biden family has with the corruption in the Ukrainian government and ties to China that they have been fighting to desperately to keep hidden.

You know the Bidenites can't have it out there that the boogieman they hate is actually the hero.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4  Kavika     last year

Sadly, DeSantis is once again flip flopping. What happened to the Gung Ho DeSantis, oh perhaps those MAGA votes are more important.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Kavika @4    last year

I think Desantis is already on the Putin payroll which explains the flip flop

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1    last year

Really??

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.10  Tessylo  replied to    last year

The previous ten comments were removed for personal off topic nonsense, SP.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
5  Greg Jones    last year

The problem with Biden's open ended approach is there seems to be no plan in place. If Trump had gotten reelected, Putin's Folly likely would not have happened.

 I don't give a shit about Ukraine's supposedly corrupt fascist government, but I do care about what's happening to it's people. And since we are already involved, pulling out now and running away is not an option. We should give them as much material support as we can afford to, but no troops on the ground.

 We found out in WW2 that we couldn't stay isolationist forever...the outcome would have likely been very different if Japan hadn't dragged us into it

 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Greg Jones @5    last year
We should give them as much material support as we can afford to

I agree with your points,  but how much is  the issue though.  Apparently, you aren't allowed to even  question just how much support we can afford 

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.2  pat wilson  replied to  Greg Jones @5    last year
If Trump had gotten reelected, Putin's Folly likely would not have happened.

Right, trump would have let Putin take Ukraine. No fuss, no muss.

I agree with the rest of your post.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6  Jeremy Retired in NC    last year

It's kind of saddening to see all these people crying "help Ukraine" but NOT A SINGLE ONE is willing to board a plane and actually go help Ukraine.  Why is that?  I get it, for many it looks good to virtue signal.  The whole "look at me" bullshit.  But like everything else these people virtual signal about, when it comes to doing something, they fall short.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
6.1  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6    last year

I'm 72 or 73 and have claudication in both legs ... is that good enough for you or do I need some bone spurs?

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
6.1.1  Ronin2  replied to  Hallux @6.1    last year

I am sure Ukraine could give you a desk job. They have billions of dollars of US aid and military equipment/munitions they have to keep track of. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6.1.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hallux @6.1    last year

And what are you doing to "help Ukraine" aside from running virtue signaling?  You can still get on a plane and go provide support.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
6.1.3  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.2    last year

UNHCR

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
6.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.2    last year

Home page | Support Ukraine (support-ukraine.org.ua)

Want to buy drones for the Ukrainians? They have web site for that

as well as food, child services etc.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6.1.6  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.4    last year

We've already done all that.  All at the expense of the taxpayer.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6.1.7  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @6.1    last year

Which is it?  
72 or 73?    
Or aren’t you sure?

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
6.1.9  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Sparty On @6.1.7    last year
72 or 73?

One or the other ... every day is Tuesday.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
6.1.10  Split Personality  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.1.6    last year

Who exactly is "we" Jeremy?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
6.2  bugsy  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6    last year
It's kind of saddening to see all these people crying "help Ukraine" but NOT A SINGLE ONE is willing to board a plane and actually go help Ukraine

Same ones who cry "no such thing as illegal aliens", but not one of them has taken one of those illegals into their home.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
6.2.1  cjcold  replied to  bugsy @6.2    last year

[deleted]

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.3  Kavika   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6    last year

This is what a group of us, our local veteran's club does for Ukraine we donate to a few different Ukraine organizations on a regular basis and have also held fundraisers for Ukraine. We have all more than paid our dues to support who we chose to when we chose to without some BS virtual signaling comment. 

 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.3.1  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @6.3    last year

fascists have been all pissed off ever since the draft ended and they could no longer send black people and hippies to die in their wars.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7  Sean Treacy    last year

eSantis have signaled their willingness to sell out Ukraine to the Kremlin,

Having read what  DeSantis actually said, this is simply gaslighting.  

He doesn't want the war to expand (US troops), he wants accounting for the billions we gave Ukraine (the horror), he supports the Biden Admin  position on F16s and is worried about a nuclear war (who besides the progressive Buck Turgidsons doesn't?).  None of those things are a "sell out"

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1  Texan1211  replied to  Sean Treacy @7    last year

hey if they can't twist what he actually said, why else would they be here?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
7.1.1  cjcold  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1    last year

What he actually said is a matter of public record.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8  JohnRussell    last year

DeSantis wants to stay at least as fucked up as Trump is, in order to get enough of MAGA to win the nomination. That is all there is to it. 

Trump threatened world war three again last night unless he is chosen to come and save the day. 

We are in a downward spiral

Flushing-Toilet.jpg

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @8    last year

How is he going to start WWIII if he doesn't get elected? Does he have his own bomb?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.1    last year

Trump magic?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.1    last year

He'll sic his enablers/supporters on them - like the domestic terrorist mobs he incited on the Capitol - same people.

A fate worse than death.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
9  cjcold    last year

The far right wing have been bought and sold by Putin.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.1  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @9    last year
The far right wing have been bought and sold by Putin.

LOL!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.2  devangelical  replied to  cjcold @9    last year

... in their words and deeds.

 
 

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