Trump called American war dead in French cemetery 'losers:' report

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  3 weeks ago  •  436 comments

By:   J. Edward Moreno (TheHill)

Trump called American war dead in French cemetery 'losers:' report
Before a planned visit to honor the American dead at a French cemetery just outside Paris in 2018, President Trump called the U.S. called the U.S. service members who were buried there during World War I "losers," sources told The Atlantic.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



trumpdonald_932020_gettyimages.jpg?itok=q11BYXwu © Getty Images

Before a planned visit to honor the American dead at a French cemetery just outside Paris in 2018, President Trump called the U.S. service members who were buried there during World War I "losers," sources told The Atlantic.

At the time, Trump was expected to arrive at Aisne-Marne American Cemetery, but he canceled last minute, stating that due to the rain, the helicopter could not fly to the location noting that the Secret Service could not drive him.

However, according to four sources with knowledge of the incident, Trump was reluctant to travel to the cemetery because he was concerned that the rain would dishevel his hair, the Atlantic reported.

He also did not think it was important to honor the dead there, according to the sources.

"Why should I go to that cemetery? It's filled with losers," Trump reportedly told aides before canceling the trip to Belleau, France.

In another conversation Trump reportedly said that the 1,800 marines who lost their lives in the battle of Belleau Wood were "suckers" for getting killed. The president reportedly asked aides about historic details about WWI, including "Who were the good guys in this war?"

Belleau Wood was a significant battle for the Allies during the First World War. There, they held off Germany advancing into France. The American Marine Corps fought there to beat back German forces.

Trump has previously made controversial comments about veterans. In 2015, before his presidential tenure, Trump said that Sen. John McCain a Vietnam veteran who was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, wasn't a war hero "because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured."

White House spokesperson Alyssa Farah told The Hill the report is false.

"President Trump holds the military in the highest regard," Farah added. "He's demonstrated his commitment to them at every turn: delivering on his promise to give our troops a much needed pay raise, increasing military spending, signing critical veterans reforms, and supporting military spouses. This has no basis in fact."


Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
smarty_function_ntUser_is_admin: user_id parameter required
[]
 
JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago
However, according to four sources with knowledge of the incident, Trump was reluctant to travel to the cemetery because he was concerned that the rain would dishevel his hair, the Atlantic reported.

He also did not think it was important to honor the dead there, according to the sources.

"Why should I go to that cemetery? It's filled with losers," Trump reportedly told aides before canceling the tripto Belleau, France.

In another conversation Trump reportedly said that the 1,800 marines who lost their lives in the battle of Belleau Wood were "suckers" for getting killed. The president reportedly asked aides about historic details about WWI, including "Who were the good guys in this war?"

I think things are about to get serious for the Orange Fool. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

www.theatlantic.com   /politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Jeffrey Goldberg
10-13 minutes

The president has repeatedly disparaged the intelligence of service members, and asked that wounded veterans be kept out of military parades, multiple sources tell  The Atlantic .

5:32 PM ET

Enjoy unlimited access to The Atlantic for less than $1 per week.   Thank you for reading The Atlantic.

Sign in

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/uAYik6caxnWLnE7_vQ5-OgY9foA=/0x20:3000x1708/1440x810/media/img/mt/2020/09/GettyImages_689786452/original.jpg 2x" src="https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/uktZb1yQIrvKsD_Kdi5yCdujuCI=/0x20:3000x1708/720x405/media/img/mt/2020/09/GettyImages_689786452/original.jpg" > Donald Trump greets families of the fallen at Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day 2017. Chip Somodevilla / Getty

When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true.

Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.

Belleau Wood is a consequential battle in American history, and the ground on which it was fought is venerated by the Marine Corps. America and its allies stopped the German advance toward Paris there in the spring of 1918. But Trump, on that same trip, asked aides, “Who were the good guys in this war?” He also said that he didn’t understand why the United States would intervene on the side of the Allies.

Trump’s understanding of concepts such as patriotism, service, and sacrifice has interested me since he expressed contempt for the war record of the late Senator John McCain, who spent more than five years as a prisoner of the North Vietnamese. “He’s not a war hero,” Trump said in 2015 while running for the Republican nomination for president. “I like people who weren’t captured.”

There was no precedent in American politics for the expression of this sort of contempt, but the performatively patriotic Trump did no damage to his candidacy by attacking McCain in this manner. Nor did he set his campaign back by attacking the parents of Humayun Khan, an Army captain who was killed in Iraq in 2004.

Trump remained fixated on McCain, one of the few prominent Republicans to continue criticizing him after he won the nomination. When McCain died, in August 2018, Trump told his senior staff, according to three sources with direct knowledge of this event, “We’re not going to support that loser’s funeral,” and he became furious, according to witnesses, when he saw flags lowered to half-staff. “What the fuck are we doing that for? Guy was a fucking loser,” the president told aides. Trump was not invited to McCain’s funeral. (These sources, and others quoted in this article, spoke on condition of anonymity. The White House did not return earlier calls for comment, but Alyssa Farah, a White House spokesperson, emailed me this statement shortly after this story was posted: “This report is false. President Trump holds the military in the highest regard. He’s demonstrated his commitment to them at every turn: delivering on his promise to give our troops a much needed pay raise, increasing military spending, signing critical veterans reforms, and supporting military spouses. This has no basis in fact.”)

Trump’s understanding of heroism has not evolved since he became president. According to sources with knowledge of the president’s views, he seems to genuinely not understand why Americans treat former prisoners of war with respect. Nor does he understand why pilots who are shot down in combat are honored by the military. On at least two occasions since becoming president, according to three sources with direct knowledge of his views, Trump referred to former President George H. W. Bush as a “loser” for being shot down by the Japanese as a Navy pilot in World War II. (Bush escaped capture, but eight other men shot down during the same mission were   caught, tortured, and executed   by Japanese soldiers.)

When lashing out at critics, Trump often reaches for illogical and corrosive insults, and members of the Bush family have publicly opposed him. But his cynicism about service and heroism extends even to the World War I dead buried outside Paris—people who were killed more than a quarter century before he was born. Trump finds the notion of military service difficult to understand, and the idea of volunteering to serve especially incomprehensible. (The president did not serve in the military; he received a medical deferment from the draft during the Vietnam War because of the alleged presence of bone spurs in his feet. In the 1990s, Trump said his efforts to avoid contracting sexually transmitted diseases constituted his “personal Vietnam.”)

On Memorial Day 2017, Trump visited Arlington National Cemetery, a short drive from the White House. He was accompanied on this visit by John Kelly, who was then the secretary of homeland security, and who would, a short time later, be named the White House chief of staff. The two men were set to visit Section 60, the 14-acre area of the cemetery that is the burial ground for those killed in America’s most recent wars. Kelly’s son Robert is buried in Section 60. A first lieutenant in the Marine Corps, Robert Kelly was killed in 2010 in Afghanistan. He was 29. Trump was meant, on this visit, to join John Kelly in paying respects at his son’s grave, and to comfort the families of other fallen service members. But according to sources with knowledge of this visit, Trump, while standing by Robert Kelly’s grave, turned directly to his father and said, “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” Kelly (who declined to comment for this story) initially believed, people close to him said, that Trump was making a ham-handed reference to the selflessness of America’s all-volunteer force. But later he came to realize that Trump simply does not understand non-transactional life choices.

“He can’t fathom the idea of doing something for someone other than himself,” one of Kelly’s friends, a retired four-star general, told me. “He just thinks that anyone who does anything when there’s no direct personal gain to be had is a sucker. There’s no money in serving the nation.” Kelly’s friend went on to say, “Trump can’t imagine anyone else’s pain. That’s why he would say this to the father of a fallen marine on Memorial Day in the cemetery where he’s buried.”

I’ve asked numerous general officers over the past year for their analysis of Trump’s seeming contempt for military service. They offer a number of explanations. Some of his cynicism is rooted in frustration, they say. Trump, unlike previous presidents, tends to believe that the military, like other departments of the federal government, is beholden only to him, and not the Constitution. Many senior officers have expressed worry about Trump’s understanding of the rules governing the use of the armed forces. This issue came to a head in early June, during demonstrations in Washington, D.C., in response to police killings of Black people. James Mattis, the retired Marine general and former secretary of defense,   lambasted   Trump at the time for ordering law-enforcement officers to forcibly clear protesters from Lafayette Square, and for using soldiers as props: “When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution,” Mattis wrote. “Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.”

Another explanation is more quotidian, and aligns with a broader understanding of Trump’s material-focused worldview. The president believes that nothing is worth doing without the promise of monetary payback, and that talented people who don’t pursue riches are “losers.” (According to eyewitnesses, after a White House briefing given by the then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Joe Dunford, Trump turned to aides and said, “That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?”)

Yet another, related, explanation concerns what appears to be Trump’s pathological fear of appearing to look like a “sucker” himself. His capacious definition of   sucker   includes those who lose their lives in service to their country, as well as those who are taken prisoner, or are wounded in battle. “He has a lot of fear,” one officer with firsthand knowledge of Trump’s views said. “He doesn’t see the heroism in fighting.” Several observers told me that Trump is deeply anxious about dying or being disfigured, and this worry manifests itself as disgust for those who have suffered. Trump recently claimed that he has received the bodies of slain service members “many, many” times, but in fact he has traveled to Dover Air Force Base, the transfer point for the remains of fallen service members, only four times since becoming president. In   another incident , Trump falsely claimed that he had called “virtually all” of the families of service members who had died during his term, then began rush-shipping condolence letters when families said the president was not telling the truth.

Read: Top military officers unload on Trump

Trump has been, for the duration of his presidency, fixated on staging military parades, but only of a certain sort. In a 2018 White House planning meeting for such an event, Trump asked his staff not to include wounded veterans, on grounds that spectators would feel uncomfortable in the presence of amputees. “Nobody wants to see that,” he said.

We want to hear what you think about this article.   Submit a letter   to the editor or write to letters@theatlantic.com.

Jeffrey Goldberg   is the editor in chief of   The Atlantic   and a recipient of the National Magazine Award for Reporting. He is the author of   Prisoners: A Story of Friendship and Terror .

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
is the editor in chief of   The Atlantic  

And also one of the leading drivers of the Russia hoax.

Didn't he fire someone for being pro-Life?


Here John:

John Bolton says he didn't hear Trump insult fallen soldiers in France

http:// hill.cm/eRMkDI1

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
3.1.1  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    3 weeks ago

Well, HELL, that does it. If John Bolton didn't hear it, then, no one did.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
3.1.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    3 weeks ago
John Bolton says he didn't hear Trump insult fallen soldiers in France

So now you're admitting everything in Bolton's book is accurate?

“He [Trump] then, stunningly, turned the conversation to the coming US presidential election, alluding to China’s economic capability to affect the ongoing campaigns, pleading with Xi to ensure he’d win,” Bolton writes.

“He stressed the importance of farmers, and increased Chinese purchases of soybeans and wheat in the electoral outcome. I would print Trump’s exact words but the government’s prepublication review process has decided otherwise.”

“The pattern looked like obstruction of justice as a way of life, which we couldn’t accept,” Bolton writes, adding that he took his concerns to the attorney general, William Barr."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/17/john-bolton-book-trump-china-accusations-dictators

"Before a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin in the Finnish capital Helsinki, he is said to have asked if Finland was "kind of a satellite of Russia".

"One highlight came when Xi said he wanted to work with Trump for six more years, and Trump replied that people were saying that the two-term constitutional limit on presidents should be repealed for him,"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53089609

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    3 weeks ago

Bolton is correct?  Ok then. Bolton says that Trump is not fit to hold the office of the President of the United States. Case closed. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
3.1.4  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    3 weeks ago

A crock statement by the Atlantic that has already been debunked more than once by different people who were there besides John Bolton, but the leftist liberal controlled MSM is still trying desperately to get traction out of it.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.5  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.4    3 weeks ago

No individual can debunk something they didnt see, unless they were with Trump every minute  24 hours a day. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
3.1.6  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.5    3 weeks ago

That is true but there are several named witnesses including John Bolton That were with the president at the time of the alleged statement including the Secret Service who are always with him. The Atlantic can only come up with three or four unnamed sources on this? Me personally, I'll go with the named sources.

 
 
 
Ender
3.1.7  Ender  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.6    3 weeks ago

The AP and even a fox news reporter corroborated it. It aligns with past statements he has made.

One person here even says that just because donald denied it, that is enough for them, even though he lies enough times to lose count.

Plus from what I gather it was a person no longer in their position. Do you really think people in the donald orbit that want to keep their jobs would go against him? Of course they are going to deny it.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.8  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.6    3 weeks ago

The Fox News reporter who says she verified the story with her sources says that people are afraid to give their names because they think Trump will destroy them. He has already called for that Fox reporter to be fired just for reporting the story. Cancel culture? That is Trump's middle name. 

Jennifer Griffin   has fired back at President   Donald Trump   after he questioned her reporting. The   Fox News   correspondent phoned into Neil Cavuto’s show on Saturday defending her “straight down the middle” reporting and her sources.

“I can tell you that my sources are unimpeachable,” Griffen told Cavuto. “I feel very confident in what we have reported at Fox.”

Griffin also stood by the credibility of her sources, noting that they are not anonymous to her and that she doubts “they are anonymous to the president,” as well. She went on to explain that people have been reluctant to step forward and speak about the President, after seeing how he “destroyed” people who have crossed him and how he has “weaponized” Twitter.

https://deadline.com/2020/09/president-trump-calls-for-firing-fox-news-correspondent-jennifer-griffin-for-confirming-atlantic-story-1234571464/
 
 
 
Sparty On
3.1.9  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.8    3 weeks ago

The fact that they waited two years to report it, conveniently right before an election, is reason enough to question the sources.

But I realize this is a very strong dog whistle for some on the left.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.10  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.9    3 weeks ago

They held it back until the time was ripe. That does not at all mean it is untrue. 

 
 
 
Dulay
3.1.11  Dulay  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.6    3 weeks ago
That is true but there are several named witnesses including John Bolton That were with the president at the time of the alleged statement including the Secret Service who are always with him.

You might want to take into account that EVERYONE that works in the WH signs an NDA. 

Secondly, the Secret Service NEVER comments on the POTUS. PERIOD. 

The Atlantic can only come up with three or four unnamed sources on this?

50 MILLION people can hear Trump say shit themselves and they STILL don't believe it. 

Me personally, I'll go with the named sources.

Then you must not believe one word Trump ever says. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
3.1.12  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.10    3 weeks ago

It means since they waited two years to report it, they either thought it wasn’t too bad to report immediately, or they are purposely using it only for partisan effect or it is simply bullshit.

 
 
 
Ender
3.1.13  Ender  replied to  Dulay @3.1.11    3 weeks ago
signs an NDA

I think that should be illegal. That people supposedly work for us yet are not allowed to talk about what they do.

It is not a private company.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
3.1.14  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.8    3 weeks ago

I find it somewhat amusing how the left accuses Trump of "weaponizing" Twitter, but have zero problem with the leftist liberals having done the same to the majority of the main stream media. Now that's a joke!

 
 
 
CB
3.1.15  CB   replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.6    3 weeks ago
The Atlantic can only come up with three or four unnamed sources on this?

Oh I see, you need a 'platoon' or 'fleet' of sources, friend Ed-NavDoc?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
3.1.16  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  CB @3.1.15    3 weeks ago

No, actually just some credible ones will do.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
3.1.17  Bob Nelson  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.16    3 weeks ago

Trump has fired anyone who has suggested that he is less than perfect. LTC Alexander Vindman is a perfect example. He was subpoenaed. His testimony was his duty. He was hounded out of the Army.

His brother - who had said nothing - was also hounded out of the service... apparently for the crime of being Alexander's twin.

Trump has fired Inspectors General by the bunch.

The purpose of all these "career executions" is of course to ensure that no one will ever speak up against The Prophet. 

Requiring names of whistleblowers is part of keeping them quiet. Everyone must know that criticism of the President will be severely punished.

 
 
 
arkpdx
3.1.18  arkpdx  replied to  Eat The Press Do Not Read It @3.1.1    3 weeks ago

I will believe a named source than some anonymous accuser, especially coming from the left. Too many times their anonymous sources have turned out (about 99.9 percent of the time) to be false. 

 
 
 
Veronica
3.1.19  Veronica  replied to  arkpdx @3.1.18    3 weeks ago
I will believe a named source

Baloney.  You won't believe anything unless it follows your way of thinking.

 
 
 
arkpdx
3.1.20  arkpdx  replied to  Veronica @3.1.19    3 weeks ago

You want to be the pot or the kettle

 
 
 
CB
3.1.21  CB   replied to  arkpdx @3.1.18    3 weeks ago

All we have to do is look back on the republican abuse of power in the impeachment hearings to see this untrue utterance for what it is. Some Trump supporters want someone to attack only. Some of y'all would not internalize the truth if it was uttered in a court of law under legal constraints. We know this, because of the shameful displays of sidelining truth for error in the impeachment hearings.

You won't believe any named source, you simply want to abuse a named source!

 
 
 
arkpdx
3.1.22  arkpdx  replied to  CB @3.1.21    3 weeks ago

You will believe any said about anyone you don't like as long as it's bad. You don't need proof you don't even care if there is an actual source or just an anonymous one will do even if the supposed source is non-existent. 

I'm sorry you and the rest of the left is do gullible that you will believe anything anybody tells you but I for one need more evidence

 
 
 
Veronica
3.1.23  Veronica  replied to  arkpdx @3.1.20    3 weeks ago

Doesn't apply to me since I have never made the claim that you did.  You claimed you would believe if your terms were met and we both know that is untrue. I have NEVER made such a claim.

 
 
 
arkpdx
3.1.24  arkpdx  replied to  Veronica @3.1.23    3 weeks ago

You means actually have evidence of some thing rather than believing anything anybody tells you without any credibility at all. Anonymous source have no crediblility. I feel sorry for you for being so gullible. 

 
 
 
Veronica
3.1.25  Veronica  replied to  arkpdx @3.1.24    3 weeks ago

Deflection 

 
 
 
arkpdx
3.1.26  arkpdx  replied to  Veronica @3.1.25    3 weeks ago
. I feel sorry for you for being so gullible. 

This spot on accurate

 
 
 
CB
3.1.27  CB   replied to  arkpdx @3.1.22    3 weeks ago
You will believe any said about anyone you don't like as long as it's bad.

Show me evidence of this.

 
 
 
CB
3.1.28  CB   replied to  arkpdx @3.1.24    3 weeks ago

You believed Trump was going to build:

  1. A new southern border wall.
  2. With a beautiful door.
  3. Mexico to pay for it.
  4. 100 days into the first administration.
  5. Show evidence it is so! 

Er, you were saying about some people being gullible. . . . Start again, please.

 
 
 
arkpdx
3.1.29  arkpdx  replied to  CB @3.1.28    3 weeks ago

I believed that? That's news to me. There you go making up stuff without anything to back it up

 
 
 
arkpdx
3.1.30  arkpdx  replied to  CB @3.1.28    3 weeks ago

And you thought Hillary was going to be president because of what the news talking heads told you. You lose again. 

 
 
 
CB
3.1.31  CB   replied to  arkpdx @3.1.24    3 weeks ago

You believed Trump when he stated, the coronavirus plague would miraculously be gone by now: And to this day, Trump presumably takes covid-19 testing on a daily basis along with anybody who comes near him.

Gullible? I don't feel sorry for you. I do think we should seek after farther growth and development, nevertheless.

 
 
 
CB
3.1.32  CB   replied to  arkpdx @3.1.30    3 weeks ago

Time-consuming rhetoric. Growth and development is called for. If you have nothing relevant to discuss and must fall back to non-sequitar and digression, let's just move on. . . .

 
 
 
arkpdx
3.1.33  arkpdx  replied to  CB @3.1.31    3 weeks ago

Boy there you go again making stuff up again. That's another strike for you

 
 
 
arkpdx
3.1.34  arkpdx  replied to  CB @3.1.32    3 weeks ago

You are the one making shit up without any facts. 

 
 
 
CB
3.1.35  CB   replied to  arkpdx @3.1.33    3 weeks ago

We're done here. No more waste of "precious" digital space on this crap.

 
 
 
arkpdx
3.1.36  arkpdx  replied to  CB @3.1.35    3 weeks ago

Don't like losing huh?

 
 
 
CB
3.1.37  CB   replied to  arkpdx @3.1.36    3 weeks ago

Reclaiming my time.

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.1.38  Texan1211  replied to  arkpdx @3.1.36    3 weeks ago

bingo!

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.1.39  Tessylo  replied to  Ender @3.1.13    3 weeks ago

What 'president' has ever made those who work with him sign a NDA?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
4  Thrawn 31    3 weeks ago

Okay, I thought that nothing this piece of shit could do or say would lower my opinion of him or shock me anymore, but this truly did. Calling those who were killed in action, who displayed more honor and courage in one split second, than Trump has in his entire life (he is a coward BTW, bone spurs or some bullshit), losers is appalling. Honestly, when I thought I couldn't hate him more, he makes me hate him even more.

Rest well fallen heroes, rest well.

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.1  Tessylo  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4    3 weeks ago

Every single day the trumpturd says something even more deplorable, even more out there, every fucking day.  

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
4.1.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tessylo @4.1    3 weeks ago

This is crossing a totally different line for me. HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT THE WAR DEAD. Especially when your cowardly ass avoided going to war at all costs. I just.... I want to fucking murder him right now.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
4.1.2  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.1.1    3 weeks ago

It all fits though..... Calling Johnny Mac a loser..... Threating to cut you daughter off if she joined the military....  No respect shown to a gold star family.... No comment on bounties on American soldiers..... No comment after Americans hurt in accident caused by Russians.....

I guess the statements have been backed up by multiple sources, but I'll sit tight for now. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.1.3  Bob Nelson  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.1.2    3 weeks ago

Let's not forget that he questioned Tammy Duckworth's patriotism because... you know... slanty eyes... 

 
 
 
CB
4.1.4  CB   replied to  Bob Nelson @4.1.3    3 weeks ago

Donald did?!

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.1.5  Bob Nelson  replied to  CB @4.1.4    3 weeks ago

Tucker Carlson initiated the mess. Donald retweeted. 

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
4.1.6  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  Tessylo @4.1    3 weeks ago

Tessylo:  "Trumpturd," that is a term of "endearment," is it not?
"Or, is it the French word for "internment?"

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  Eat The Press Do Not Read It @4.1.6    3 weeks ago

That's what he is, a turd.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
4.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4    3 weeks ago

@ Thrawn

I, too, didn't think I could despise that evil, thieving, hypocritical, racist, lying, incompetent, negligent, xenophobic bastard more as well, until I read this article.  Until now I didn't think my capacity to hate someone could ever exceed what it was.  I don't want to death-wish ANYONE, but what puzzles me is why men like Abraham Lincoln and JFK get assassinated, and Trump is still alive. 

 
 
 
pat wilson
4.2.1  pat wilson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.2    3 weeks ago

I don't death wish anyone including this jackass. I'll settle for him being electorally swept away like a broom with trash. He can shrivel up in obscurity, irrelevance and shame. That would suit me.

 
 
 
cjcold
4.2.2  cjcold  replied to  pat wilson @4.2.1    3 weeks ago

He'll likely spend the rest of his life in court/prison.

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
4.2.3  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.2    3 weeks ago

They were killed by RIGHT-WINGERS. Right-wingers are very pro-guns, don't ya know! 

Along with:

RFK

MLK

And, many, many good Americans!

 
 
 
Ender
4.3  Ender  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4    3 weeks ago

Just when I think it is impossible for him to go any lower.

I am at the point I blame his enablers and supporters just as much as him.

Those that continue to support this madness are just as bad as he is.

 
 
 
cjcold
4.3.1  cjcold  replied to  Ender @4.3    3 weeks ago

It's almost like Trump wants to start a new civil war.

His divisive fascist ways are contributing to that very eventuality.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.3.2  bugsy  replied to  cjcold @4.3.1    3 weeks ago

We keep hearing that Trump is divisive, but no liberal is able to give specific examples on wht is truly divisive, not just "I don't like Trump", or "he lies", or other emotional responses the left is known for.

Maybe you can be the one to make those SPECIFIC examples.

 
 
 
Dulay
4.3.3  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @4.3.2    3 weeks ago

Here's just a taste for you:

"He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured."

"They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

"She gets out, and she starts asking me all kinds of ridiculous questions. And, you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever."

Trump said, while moving in his arms in a spastic motion , "Uhh I don't know what I said. Uhh I don't remember. He's going like 'I don't remember. Maybe that's what I said."

"I understand losers. You can make a lot of money with losers…[Romney] choked like a dog...He’s a choker...Once a choker, always a choker...And he walks like a penguin onto the stage."

Speaking in the third person: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on."

"The radical ideology attacking our country advances under the banner of social justice. But in truth, it would demolish both justice and society"

 
 
 
CB
4.3.4  CB   replied to  bugsy @4.3.2    3 weeks ago

President Donald Trump On Charlottesville: You Had Very Fine People, On Both Sides | CNBC

Bugsy, do what this video and let's talk about what is divisive about Donald Trump afterwards, okay? What was divisive about Robert E. Lee also mentioned in the video.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.3.5  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @4.3.3    3 weeks ago

Saying stupid shit sometimes (BTFW, most of what you posted was out of context, but you knew that) is not divisive, but little minded people that take offense to anything and everything getting triggered by "orange man bad because they don't have the grey matter to ignore stupid shit that doesn't affect them one little bit.

Now, back to the original question that was directed to the person I responded to, but apparently can't answer it...

Maybe you can be the one to make those REAL specific examples, not triggered responses from "orange man bad". .

 
 
 
bugsy
4.3.6  bugsy  replied to  CB @4.3.4    3 weeks ago

You are another that believes what you hear from CNN and MSDNC. It has been debunked that he was supporting white supremists. You just don't like it.

BTW, every president since Andrew Johnson has had the opportunity to remove any remembrance of Lee, including the left's messiah Obama, but never did. Now, orange man bad, somehow mentions Lee, and the small minded, triggered left lose their minds.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Dulay
4.3.7  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @4.3.5    3 weeks ago
Saying stupid shit sometimes (BTFW, most of what you posted was out of context, but you knew that) is not divisive, but little minded people that take offense to anything and everything getting triggered by "orange man bad because they don't have the grey matter to ignore stupid shit that doesn't affect them one little bit.

You may choose to give Trump a pass on his divisive comments by labeling them as merely 'stupid shit', I choose NOT to do so. 

Now, back to the original question that was directed to the person I responded to, but apparently can't answer it... Maybe you can be the one to make those REAL specific examples, not triggered responses from "orange man bad". .

I DID give you 'REAL specific examples', you just don't want to hear it. Perhaps you have a different definition of 'divisive'. In that case, you'll have to post it so I know WTF you're talking about since my go to reference is Webster. 

 
 
 
CB
4.3.8  CB   replied to  bugsy @4.3.6    3 weeks ago
 It has been debunked that he was supporting white supremists [sic]. You just don't like it.

This has nothing to do with like or dislike. Are you aware that Donald Trump caused a "uniting figure" of a republican his governing seat? Please proceed to explain if you know.

Moreover, Robert E. Lee and other's statues were not the issue it is today. Each issue orbits in its own time. Surely you know this. Elsewise, all presidents should have fixed slavery, Jim Crow, and Civil Rights! (Hint: They have not.)

 
 
 
bugsy
4.3.9  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @4.3.7    3 weeks ago
Perhaps you have a different definition of 'divisive'. In that case, you'll have to post it

How about assaulting and killing people who simply support our...and your....President?

How about calling people racist with zero proof, especially if that person is not even personally known by the insulter, ie, what most leftists do to Trump supports, simply because they are Trump supporters?

How about burning and looting property of innocent business owners because you don't like Trump or want to FORCE people to accept your violent rhetoric?

How about ridiculing Christians that "cling to your guns and bibles" simply because you know those people will not vote for you?

How about calling half of the voting population "deplorable" simply because you know they won't vote for you?

How about claiming that a large chunk of Americans are just not good people simply because you know they will not vote for you?

How about you claiming a black kid that tried to kill a man by bashing his head in the concrete simply for following him, that he could be your son?

Of course, you won't admit these are divisive, quite possibly because you agree with them.

BTFW..keep this in mind...if it wasn't for the divisiveness of your messiah, Obama, we would not have Trump as your president today.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.3.10  bugsy  replied to  CB @4.3.8    3 weeks ago
Elsewise, all presidents should have fixed slavery, Jim Crow, and Civil Rights!

Slavery was fixed 150 years ago by the Republican president named Lincoln

Jim Crow laws were deleted and Civil Rights were granted to all Americans by Republican Congresses.

What have Democrats done for blacks in the last 60 years?

Be specific with reputable "sources". Not your feelings.

 
 
 
CB
4.3.11  CB   replied to  bugsy @4.3.10    3 weeks ago
Are you aware that Donald Trump caused a "uniting figure" of a republican his governing seat? Please proceed to explain if you know.

That is the topic related in my comment. Oblique references to slavery and its effects aside. Donald Trump ain't a model of Abe Lincoln. You need to settle that in your heart. And today's republican party is Trump-RINO.

And for the record, nobody gets to tell me how to feel about republicans and democrats currently serving in office, black, white, brown, or polka-dotted!

 
 
 
Texan1211
4.3.12  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @4.3.10    3 weeks ago

some will never leave the Democratic plantation.

 
 
 
Dulay
4.3.13  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @4.3.9    3 weeks ago
How about claiming that a large chunk of Americans are just not good people simply because you know they will not vote for you?

I'll take that one. Trump does that almost every fucking day. 

BTFW..keep this in mind...if it wasn't for the divisiveness of your messiah, Obama, we would not have Trump as your president today.

I find it interesting that you and yours always blame me and mine for how you and yours voted. 

BTFW, I've never had a messiah. 

 
 
 
CB
4.3.14  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @4.3.12    3 weeks ago

Better than being a sharecropper on a lying, thieving, conniving,Trump-RINO plantation. I would never consider joining such a toxic conservative environment chock full of so many schemers and deceivers! And, not even great minded schemers and deceivers. Just petty abusers of the powers, positions, and times allotted to them. Caught and exposed to every political hook they impale themselves on!

A so-called RINO 'party' dedicated to the whims of one pathetic man. A thing so disgusting, even true republicans are working to pull "it" down into an eternal political grave.

 
 
 
Texan1211
4.3.15  Texan1211  replied to  CB @4.3.14    3 weeks ago

Funny stuff there.

Keep it up--I like it!

 
 
 
CB
4.3.16  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @4.3.15    3 weeks ago

th?id=OIP.YVe8g7vvjbWt2cE9R1WncQHaD4&w=187&h=100&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&dpr=1.25&pid=3.1&rm=2

 
 
 
Texan1211
4.3.17  Texan1211  replied to  CB @4.3.16    3 weeks ago

🤪

 
 
 
bugsy
4.3.18  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @4.3.13    3 weeks ago
I'll take that one. Trump does that almost every fucking day. 

Well, you took it alright....and failed at it.

I notice you could not refute all of the other points, probably for 2 reasons....

You know what I stated was true, and..

You agree with them

"I find it interesting that you and yours always blame me and mine for how you and yours voted."

I did no such thing. All there is to say about this is...Obama sucked, and Americans did not want a third term of "Obama sucked" in the form of Hillary Clinton.

"BTFW, I've never had a messiah"

Sure you do...His name is Barack. . 

 
 
 
Dulay
4.3.19  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @4.3.18    3 weeks ago
Well, you took it alright....and failed at it.
How about claiming that a large chunk of Americans are just not good people simply because you know they will not vote for you?

I'll take that one. Trump does that almost every fucking day. 

Is it your ridiculous posit that Trump doesn't claim that large chunks of Americans are not good people? Wow, that would be delusional. 

I notice you could not refute all of the other points, probably for 2 reasons...

You gave me a choice and I made one. Issue? 

You know what I stated was true, and.. You agree with them

False on both. 

I did no such thing.

Sure you did. 

All there is to say about this is...Obama sucked, and Americans did not want a third term of "Obama sucked" in the form of Hillary Clinton.

"Obama sucked" "Obama was divisive" " Obama made us do it" 

Sure you do...His name is Barack.

Since you take leave to presume to know me well enough to foist a messiah upon me, despite my clear statement otherwise, I'll do the same for you.

Your messiah is Beelzebub. Own it. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.3.20  Tessylo  replied to  bugsy @4.3.18    3 weeks ago

You've never posted anything remotely resembling the truth or facts, ever, bugs.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.3.21  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @4.3.19    3 weeks ago

I will leave it at this because you will obviously not see the failures of the ideology of liberalism. I gave you several reasons why the left is the divisive sect of the country. You pick one because you thought you could get a point from refuting it. Your point failed, like normal

You can say you do not agree with what I posted, but most can see how that is not true by your past posts and your hatred for anyone not in lock step with liberalism.

You also probably know Obama  was the most divisive president this country has ever seen. I gave you several instances in why I am right. Your failure to see it is well, your failure.

Your childish rebuke of who my "messiah" is, is just that..childish, but I expect no less. I let you know who you believe had zero flaws, a real person. You had to come back with a childish tantrum. Yet another failure.

Now, please do what you normally do when you lose a debate (often)

[deleted]

 
 
 
bugsy
4.3.22  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @4.3.20    3 weeks ago

Still got that crush on whitey, I see.

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.3.23  Tessylo  replied to  bugsy @4.3.21    3 weeks ago

You have no idea what the truth and facts are.  

You fail, as usual.  

Go away

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.3.24  Tessylo  replied to  bugsy @4.3.22    3 weeks ago

"Still got that crush on whitey, I see."

Whatever the fuck that means.

jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.3.25  Tessylo  replied to  Dulay @4.3.13    3 weeks ago

Yup, they blame President Obama for the past and Joe Biden for the future (and the present).

Last I heard, trumpturd is the 'president' and Joe Biden is running for president.  

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.3.26  Bob Nelson  replied to  Ender @4.3    3 weeks ago
Those that continue to support this madness are just as bad as he is.

Perhaps we perceive this backwards. 

Perhaps there really are a lot of racist assholes in America, and Trump is just an excuse, giving cover while they express themselves. 

I mean.... no one can still ignore what a lying asshole Trump is. So if anyone continues to pretend to support him, it can only be as an excuse for the racism that they'd otherwise have to recognize as their own. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
4.3.27  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.3.26    3 weeks ago
Perhaps there really are a lot of racist

Doubtful there are a lot of them but i can promise you this.   There are more now than there was a few months ago.

Just what the anarchists want .....

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
4.3.28  Bob Nelson  replied to  Sparty On @4.3.27    3 weeks ago

Any excuse... 

 
 
 
Sparty On
4.3.29  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.3.28    3 weeks ago

So stop making them ....

 
 
 
CB
4.3.30  CB   replied to  Bob Nelson @4.3.28    3 weeks ago

He works hard for the money. . . . Donald is an opportunist. One that suffers from white privilege and status. Somewhere along the way he realized that he could strike an accord with laborers in hard jobs, so he has been milking "the sites" ever since. Trump is a mythos to folks that build stuff with their hands, that they can one day achieve wealth, fame, and power if they are simply dogged and mean enough to keep an enemies' list.

Of course there are racists in America! Of all stripes. We can all wish and pray that they would grow up, stop being cheats, and thieves of the rights and privileges of other folks, but heavens they don't see it that way! The struggle continues.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago
Hollylane  
  BLM-RESIST  
@HollyWouldnt777
·
48s
Replying to
Fvck you, if you vote for this guy. " Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed"
 
 
 
Thrawn 31
5.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  JohnRussell @5    3 weeks ago

As a Marine I could never support him, even if I was still active, after the way he shit talked our fallen....

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Thrawn 31 @5.1    3 weeks ago

Thank you for your service.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
5.1.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.1.1    3 weeks ago

No thanks required.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5.1.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Thrawn 31 @5.1.2    3 weeks ago

I think it is.  We vets gave so much that a ty is warranted.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
5.1.4  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.1.3    3 weeks ago

I thank everyone for paying their taxes in response...

 
 
 
Gsquared
5.1.5  Gsquared  replied to  Thrawn 31 @5.1.2    3 weeks ago

You have our eternal gratitude.

 
 
 
Gsquared
5.1.6  Gsquared  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.1.3    3 weeks ago

You have our eternal gratitude.

 
 
 
Gsquared
5.1.7  Gsquared  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.1.4    3 weeks ago

You have our eternal gratitude.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
5.1.8  Thrawn 31  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.1.3    3 weeks ago

Do more with less, adapt and overcome. The USMC way.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
5.1.9  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Gsquared @5.1.7    3 weeks ago

You have my gratitude for paying your taxes....!

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
5.1.10  Duck Hawk  replied to  Thrawn 31 @5.1    3 weeks ago

I don't think many active or former marine would support him now, but there are still a few idiots who will still follow blindly. Calling those p\marines "losers." what a fucking asshole.One of the biggest cowards I've ever seen.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
5.1.11  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Thrawn 31 @5.1.8    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Gsquared
5.1.12  Gsquared  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.1.9    3 weeks ago

That I do.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
5.1.13  Thrawn 31  replied to  Duck Hawk @5.1.10    3 weeks ago

he shit talked those we couldnt get

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @5    3 weeks ago
7Rgwhfzs_bigger.jpg
James LaPorta  AP Investigative Reporter
@JimLaPorta
A senior Defense Department official I just spoke with confirmed this story by
@JeffreyGoldberg in its entirety.
Especially the grafs about the late Sen. John McCain and former Marine Gen. John Kelly, President @realDonaldTrump former chief of staff.
 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6  Paula Bartholomew    3 weeks ago

Any veteran or active duty personnel who still support this POS are the real losers and suckers.  France needs to bar him from ever coming there again.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
6.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6    3 weeks ago

Trump is a goddamn disgrace.

 
 
 
Tessylo
6.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.1    3 weeks ago

"Trump is a goddamn disgrace."

Always has been, always will be.  

A pathetic deplorable waste excuse for a human being.  

I mean, not that I believe in sin per se, I believe in the Golden Rule, but he hits all of the 7 deadlies:

pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony, and sloth

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
6.1.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tessylo @6.1.1    3 weeks ago

but...  but...  but... 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6.1.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.1    3 weeks ago

Any Trumptard here who has family in the military should be turned into pinatas as the next family gathering.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
6.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6    3 weeks ago
Any veteran or active duty personnel who still support this POS are the real losers and suckers

Far better than the alternative.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.2.1  Sparty On  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.2    3 weeks ago

True dat!

 
 
 
Kavika
7  Kavika     3 weeks ago

Those ''losers'' died at Belleau Wood, Bastogne, Bloody Ridge, Hamburger Hill, Fallujah, Kamdesh, and all those unknown battles where Americans of every color/race/religion made the ultimate sacrifice. 

Yeah, all those ''losers''. 

They are the reason that you, Trump, can spout your shit.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
7.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Kavika @7    3 weeks ago

Tarawa, Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Midway, Omaha beach, Battle of the Bulge, the list goes on. His disrespect of those who made the ultimate sacrifice...

 
 
 
Kavika
7.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Thrawn 31 @7.1    3 weeks ago

My father was in the first wave to hit the beach at Tarawa (Betio). Silver Star recipient and Purple Heart with Oak Leaf clusters. 2/2nd

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
7.1.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Kavika @7.1.1    3 weeks ago

And a strong salute to him, I hope he is still with us but either way Semper Fi sir (even if he was never a sir).

 
 
 
pat wilson
7.1.3  pat wilson  replied to  Thrawn 31 @7.1    3 weeks ago

Guam

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
7.1.4  Thrawn 31  replied to  Kavika @7.1.1    3 weeks ago

Your father was that John Basilone type shit. 

 
 
 
Gsquared
7.1.5  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @7.1.1    3 weeks ago

Your father has our eternal gratitude.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
7.1.6  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Kavika @7.1.1    3 weeks ago

My father was a DI at Perris Island.  One of his favorite movies was The DI starring Jack Webb.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
7.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Kavika @7    3 weeks ago
Yeah, all those ''losers''. 

To Trump the "winners" were those who had rich parents that got them deferments or claimed they had bone spurs to get out of serving. He prefers getting his purple heart handed to instead of actually deserving one. Apparently to dishonest Donald those actually putting their lives on the line protecting our nation and being injured or killed and deserving a purple heart are "losers" or "suckers".

 
 
 
JohnRussell
7.2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.2    3 weeks ago

Assuming this is all true, how can this man be commander in chief for four more years? Not possible. The Republics should replace him on the ticket. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
8  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago
When McCain died, in August 2018, Trump told his senior staff, according to three sources with direct knowledge of this event, “We’re not going to support that loser’s funeral,” and he became furious, according to witnesses, when he saw flags lowered to half-staff. “What the fuck are we doing that for? Guy was a fucking loser,” the president told aides. Trump was not invited to McCain’s funeral. 
 
 
 
Gsquared
8.1  Gsquared  replied to  JohnRussell @8    3 weeks ago

Trump's presence would have dishonored McCain's funeral.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
8.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Gsquared @8.1    3 weeks ago

Meagan would have thrown him out on his fat ass if he had shown up.

 
 
 
Gsquared
8.1.2  Gsquared  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @8.1.1    3 weeks ago

Yes, she would have.  And she's a whole lot tougher than the Ruff Tuff Cream Puff.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
8.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  JohnRussell @8    3 weeks ago

I long for the day that the flags will fly at half staff for Trump.  Note to mods...I am not death wishing.  Trump will eventually go toe up some day.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
9  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

I think John Kelly may be the source for all this. I think he was the one on that trip to France. 

 
 
 
Gsquared
9.1  Gsquared  replied to  JohnRussell @9    3 weeks ago

I think you are right.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
10  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago
Trump, while standing by Robert Kelly’s grave, turned directly to his father and said, “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” Kelly (who declined to comment for this story) initially believed, people close to him said, that Trump was making a ham-handed reference to the selflessness of America’s all-volunteer force. But later he came to realize that Trump simply does not understand non-transactional life choices. “He can’t fathom the idea of doing something for someone other than himself,” one of Kelly’s friends, a retired four-star general, told me. “He just thinks that anyone who does anything when there’s no direct personal gain to be had is a sucker. There’s no money in serving the nation.” Kelly’s friend went on to say, “Trump can’t imagine anyone else’s pain. That’s why he would say this to the father of a fallen marine on Memorial Day in the cemetery where he’s buried.”
 
 
 
JohnRussell
11  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

No one wants to put their name on these charges because they are worried that's Trumps followers will come after them or their families.  

There were a very limited number of people who heard Trump say these things. It sounds like all of them told on him. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
12  TᵢG    3 weeks ago
 "Why should I go to that cemetery? It's filled with losers," Trump reportedly told aides before canceling the trip to Belleau, France. In another conversation Trump reportedly said that the 1,800 marines who lost their lives in the battle of Belleau Wood were "suckers" for getting killed. The president reportedly asked aides about historic details about WWI, including "Who were the good guys in this war?"

Some people dismiss the character issue for Trump stating that his policies are what is important.   I have never been comfortable with that viewpoint.   It is one thing to have a PotUS with normal human failings, but Trump is way over the top.    And if this quote is accurate, I have no words.

I cannot imagine any prior PotUS thinking that soldiers KIA were anything less than heroes who gave their lives for their country.   Yet Trump actually goes to the next level and faults these soldiers for being in the line of fire.   What, exactly does he understand of war, that the only reason one is killed or injured is if they make a mistake?

I thought his campaign comments on McCain were bad enough, but this is disgusting to hear from any citizen of the USA much less the Commander in Chief.

What an asshole.   Also, how could Trump think comments like these are good for his reelection?    Does he think that his followers think poorly of soldiers and vets?

I just hope, if this quote is accurate, that it was recorded and makes it to campaign ads.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
12.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @12    3 weeks ago
Does he think that his followers think poorly of soldiers and vets?

I doubt it, but I believe he knows that some people will let these remarks pass.  And he's probably right. Some of his followers care about soldiers and vets, but some are just pretending to do so.  And many of those who do care value their political positions more.

 
 
 
TᵢG
12.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  sandy-2021492 @12.1    3 weeks ago

Yeah, well we can test that right here on NT.    Lots of members (especially declared Trump supporters) not weighing in here.

Other than being hobbled by partisanship, who on NT would not condemn a PotUS deeming USA soldiers KIA as losers for dying on the battlefield?

 
 
 
Ender
12.1.2  Ender  replied to  sandy-2021492 @12.1    3 weeks ago

They will just call it fake news and continue to jump on Pelosi.

 
 
 
pat wilson
12.1.3  pat wilson  replied to  Ender @12.1.2    3 weeks ago

That's all they have, Pelosi getting a haircut, pathetic.

 
 
 
CB
12.1.4  CB   replied to  TᵢG @12.1.1    3 weeks ago

I have long held it in my heart, if not in my head, an instance of dislike for Donald Trump because of what he said about John McCain:

IA-TRUMP ON JOHN MCCAIN- "HE"S NOT A WAR HERO"

@ 4:30 thereabouts in the video, an actor portrays John McCain. As it turns out was a fighter pilot caught up and involved in the USS Forrestal fire where he almost died on the flight deck! It is that self-same incident which is the reason for fire-fighting training for all seamen and sea women since being instituted. (Salute.)

Disasters of the Century - Season 3 - Episode 16 - USS Forrestal | Ian Michael Coulson

Though my politics has always disagreed with Senator McCain's; I have always, always, respected the fact of his service on the Forrestal and beyond. I am willing to bet to this day, even this minute as president, Donald does not know the deep, deep, connection and legacy of Senator John McCain to sailors and marines that came after him and the fire on the USS Forrestal.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
12.1.5  FLYNAVY1  replied to  CB @12.1.4    3 weeks ago

There are many on the right that blame Johnny Mac for the fire on the Forrestal.  Multiple investigations have laid that to rest, but a number of the cultist won't accept the evidence as they would have to change their narrative on McCain, the man that put a black man in the White House.

And I still remember the video from basic training as we went into firefighting training....... "Trial by Fire"... "Learn or Burn"

 
 
 
MUVA
12.1.6  MUVA  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @12.1.5    3 weeks ago

The left used the Forrestal mishap  before MCCain ran for president history is your friend or I guess in the leftIst case those who control the pass control the future.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
12.1.7  FLYNAVY1  replied to  MUVA @12.1.6    3 weeks ago

If you would be kind enough to post a link in support of your statement.

When I looked, the only ones I found was by Lew Rockwell..... a libertarian, and a blog by Michael Opulus, who was dating Tiffany Trump on October of 2017 when he wrote his piece.

 
 
 
MUVA
12.1.8  MUVA  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @12.1.7    3 weeks ago

Of course you can't find any articles from 2008 where democrats are ripping  McCain it is the google scrub try again and you will fail.Don't you think it is funny the only article  you can find is from 2017?  I found a couple blogs where it was disused but you can't find a word said about McCain with out Trump coming up on google weird.   

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
12.1.9  FLYNAVY1  replied to  MUVA @12.1.8    3 weeks ago

So in other words..... what you state didn't happen.  

I can confirm though that there is/was a multitude of right-wingers on Breitbart that blame McCain for the Forrestal fire.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/08/25/john-mccain-1936-2018-conservative-frenemy-american-hero/#disqus_thread

 
 
 
CB
12.1.10  CB   replied to  FLYNAVY1 @12.1.5    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_124_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
12.1.16  Bob Nelson  replied to  MUVA @12.1.15    3 weeks ago

Very impressive, MUVA! You've found a source for campaign ads from 2008.

Tell us, MUVA, do you, personally, praise McCain, or do you damn him?

 
 
 
MUVA
12.1.17  MUVA  replied to  Bob Nelson @12.1.16    3 weeks ago

 I praise his service and condemn his bowing to leftist at the end of his life. 

 
 
 
MUVA
12.1.18  MUVA  replied to  Bob Nelson @12.1.16    3 weeks ago

Did you happen to see what I was responding to I actually remember the past and the attacks against  McCain 2008. 

 
 
 
CB
12.1.19  CB   replied to  MUVA @12.1.18    3 weeks ago

So what?!  That is politics as it is played by those inside it. McCain understood that portion of it.

 Liberals got to make their case in which the public would either believe it or not believed. Valid points or invalid points. Moreover, as I hastily went through your links, even if what  liberals wrote and attempted was WRONG (and it could be on deep-dive) that can give no comfort to what Donald Trump stated.

What Donald Trump said about and during his 'war' with John McCain's military record offered no points or contexts whatsoever. It was a blanket opinion effectively saying:

'McCain was no war hero, he got captured, I like people who don't get captured.' (Paraphrased.)

Nobody in their proper mind should have accepted that response from a man who would not serve himself and mocked wars as the thing he waged with avoiding contracting syphilis from society chicks and female pole dancers on the Howard Stern Show!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
12.1.20  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Bob Nelson @12.1.16    3 weeks ago

He is a trumper so of course he will damn him.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
12.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  TᵢG @12    3 weeks ago
"Does he think that his followers think poorly of soldiers and vets?"

At this point in time, none of his poodles have come to his defence, but after all, their lord and master can do no wrong.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
13  Dismayed Patriot    3 weeks ago

Is there anyone who truly, wholeheartedly, believes that if Trump were captured by some terrorists and threatened with torture that he wouldn't give up the nuclear codes or whatever his captors wanted within minutes? There's just no way such a sniveling piece of shit wouldn't fold like a cheap lawn chair under even the mildest duress. There is only one thing dirty Donald is loyal to and that is himself. He'd throw his own grandmother and grand-kids under the bus in a heartbeat if he thought it would benefit him in some way. His disrespecting our men and women in uniform should have been expected from such a worthless excuse for a human being.

 
 
 
TᵢG
13.1  TᵢG  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @13    3 weeks ago

Ironically, should Trump lose his bid for reelection, he will not accept the label 'loser'.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
13.1.1  Raven Wing  replied to  TᵢG @13.1    3 weeks ago
he will not accept the label 'loser'.

And all the newspapers should have "Trump is a loser" written in uge letters across the top of the page. 

And if he does lose (fingers crossed) we will see just how bad a loser he is, and how many conspiracy claims he can come up with, or rigged votes he can think of, or how there were illegal more than one votes cast (like he advised NC voters to do), anything that will allow him to stay in the WH longer and try to say he is still President and refuse to step down.

Nothing he would do that would be illegal or against the Constitution, or lie about, would surprise me. He has already done so much of that it wouldn't be the first time for any of it.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
13.1.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Raven Wing @13.1.1    3 weeks ago

When he is dragged from the WH I would love to see signs.....LOSER.....SUCKER.....IT IS WHAT IT IS.

 
 
 
Adam_Selene
13.2  Adam_Selene  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @13    3 weeks ago
Is there anyone who truly, wholeheartedly, believes that if Trump were captured by some terrorists and threatened with torture that he wouldn't give up the nuclear codes or whatever his captors wanted within minutes?

Like a flash - if he could remember them.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
13.2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Adam_Selene @13.2    3 weeks ago

He'd try to make a deal ...... "would you like my daughters?" 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
13.2.2  Raven Wing  replied to  JohnRussell @13.2.1    3 weeks ago
"would you like my daughters?" 

He would give up Melania before he would even consider giving up Ivanka. And Tiffany is a no brainer. Trump would give her up in a heart beat.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
13.2.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Raven Wing @13.2.2    3 weeks ago

You're right, to Trump wives are replaceable.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
13.3  Raven Wing  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @13    3 weeks ago

Especially, if the captors threatened to remove his bone spurs with pliers. Or, deny him any 'hamburders' and diet cokes.

 
 
 
Tessylo
13.3.1  Tessylo  replied to  Raven Wing @13.3    3 weeks ago
"Or, deny him any 'hamburders' and diet cokes."

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Adam_Selene
14  Adam_Selene    3 weeks ago

At least someone is thinking ahead.

See Tammy Duckworth's proposed legislation on Arlington Cemetery.

Should Democrats get a clean sweep in November, I hope this bill becomes the first piece of legislation to pass.

 
 
 
Ender
14.1  Ender  replied to  Adam_Selene @14    3 weeks ago

That bill actually makes sense and would keep the cemetery operational. Therefore it will not pass with the current congressional makeup.

So sweep away!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
14.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Adam_Selene @14    3 weeks ago

Trump won't want to be buried there anyway.  His choice would be at one of his golf courses or cremated, the ashes on Ivanka's mantle.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
14.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Adam_Selene @14    3 weeks ago

Due to an act of Congress, Martha Ray is buried there because of her work with the troops.   For a civilian, it is the highest of honors.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
14.3.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @14.3    3 weeks ago
Due to an act of Congress... 

That's OK, on condition that the act of Congress is managed seriously. I can see this going either way. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
14.3.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Bob Nelson @14.3.1    3 weeks ago

It was a very long time ago but as I remember, it was a unanimous pass.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
15  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago
Ry9m4KDp_bigger.jpg
Joe Scarborough
@JoeNBC
·
3h
General Kelly’s son Robert is buried in Section 60 of Arlington. He was 29. Trump, while standing by Robert Kelly’s grave, turned directly to his father and said, “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?”
 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
15.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  JohnRussell @15    3 weeks ago

Trump can't understand anything that isn't a monetary transaction.....

 
 
 
TᵢG
15.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @15.1    3 weeks ago

... or altruistic.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
15.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  JohnRussell @15    3 weeks ago

Kelly should have slapped the taste out of his mouth.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
16  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

There is a Associated Press reporter named James LaPorta who says he called numerous sources of his at the Defense Department and they verified the truth of The Atlantic's article. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
16.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @16    3 weeks ago

So three years later And right before an election, suddenly “numerous” people all claim to have heard trump make an utterly reprehensible comment in front of “numerous” witnesses yet no one said anything for three years.   But, suddenly, they all claim to have heard it?

if he said it, it would have been leaked immediately, just like the other things he said at the time that Immediately leaked. For this to be kept secret seems impossible.

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Sean Treacy @16.1    3 weeks ago

Gee, it only took you two hours to come to trumpturds' defense.  What took you so long?

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Sean Treacy @16.1    3 weeks ago
For this to be kept secret seems impossible.

And your skepticism is justified in this case.   Although Trump's comments (on video) demeaning McCain for being captured as a POW illustrate a way of thinking that makes this story believable, I have yet to find convincing corroboration. 

That established, if Trump really did state that soldiers KIA are losers because they were killed, would you condemn him as philosophically unfit to be Commander in Chief?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
16.1.3  Sean Treacy  replied to  TᵢG @16.1.2    3 weeks ago

would you condemn him as philosophically unfit to be Commander in Chief?

yes. I would not vote for someone who said that.

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.1.4  TᵢG  replied to  Sean Treacy @16.1.3    3 weeks ago

We agree.

 
 
 
Gsquared
16.1.5  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @16.1.4    3 weeks ago

What would convince you that Trump said what has been reported?

 
 
 
MAGA
16.1.6  MAGA  replied to  Sean Treacy @16.1.3    3 weeks ago

The White House is describing an anonymously sourced article from The Atlantic as "a disgrace," claiming that it falsely accuses President Trump of insulting dead soldiers and being ignorant of who fought in World War I.

"Not a soul brave enough to put their name on any of these accusations. That's because they are false," White House spokesman Judd Deere tweeted on Thursday.

"Just another anonymously sourced story meant to tear down a Commander-in-Chief who loves our military and has delivered on the promises he's made. What a disgrace!"

The Atlantic's article, written by editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg, cites four unnamed sources in saying that Trump claimed the Aisne-Marne American cemetery near Paris was "filled with losers." Trump had canceled a visit to the cemetery in 2018, prompting widespread criticism in the media at the time . The president claimed his helicopter couldn't fly in the rain and that the Secret Service would drive him there -- claims that Goldberg says are false.

TRUMP DESIGNATES WILMINGTON A 'WORLD WAR II HERITAGE CITY,' DECLARES 'WE DON'T TEAR DOWN THE PAST'

"Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead," Goldberg wrote.

Goldberg also claimed Trump labeled as losers Marines who died at the Battle of Belleau Wood during World War I. Referring to the war, Trump allegedly asked: “Who were the good guys in this war?”

"He also said that he didn’t understand why the United States would intervene on the side of the Allies," Goldberg said, framing the remarks as "contempt" for American servicemembers. He pointed to how then-candidate Trump bashed former Arizona Sen. John McCain in 2015 for getting captured by enemy forces during the Vietnam War. “I like people who weren’t captured," he said.

President Trump later posted a series of tweets about McCain and saying he never called fallen soldiers anything other than "HEROES."

TRUMP TO AWARD MEDAL OF HONOR ON 9/11 TO SOLDIER WHO RESCUED 75 HOSTAGES

White House Communications Director Alyssa Farrah called the report "offensive & patently false," highlighting a number measures the president took in support of the military.

"On that Atlantic piece: It’s offensive & patently false.  @realDonaldTrump holds the military in the highest regard. He’s demonstrated his commitment to the force: delivering a pay raise to our troops, increasing military $$, signing vets reform & supporting military spouses," Farrah tweeted.

CLICK HERE TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP

She added: "I’ve watched  @realDonaldTrump solemnly sign letters to the families of fallen heroes. He’s honored their memories by doing more than any modern president to get us OUT of endless wars."

Goldberg didn't reply to criticisms via Twitter.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/atlantic-story-trump-dead-soldiers

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  Gsquared @16.1.5    3 weeks ago

A credible eyewitness standing up and taking the heat that comes from such an allegation would be a great start.

What would convince you?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
16.1.8  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @16.1.7    3 weeks ago

Jeffery Goldberg is an extremely respected reporter. He is not remotely a hack or someone that would make up such a story. His reputation as a journalist is on the line.  The source undoubtedly doesnt want to be named because of the torrent of death threats that would follow towards he his wife, his children and grandchildren. 

This story was not made up. 

Who are you going to believe , respected people with reputations or Trump and his white house lackeys. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.1.9  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @16.1.8    3 weeks ago
Who are you going to believe , respected people with reputations or Trump and his white house lackeys. 

Excellent question John.  

I do not operate on authority.   I operate on evidence.   I do not question the integrity of Goldberg and realize that making up a story like this would likely be net bad for his career.

I also do not simply believe what comes from the White House.

But, I look for corroborating evidence.   I will be convinced by evidence, not by declarations.   In this case, hard evidence would be a recording.   Good evidence, however, would be personal eyewitness testimony.   Not anonymous, but a person willing to take the heat for the allegation.

As I have already explained @16.1.7.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
16.1.10  Greg Jones  replied to  Gsquared @16.1.5    3 weeks ago

Verifiable proof. Otherwise, it's just more fake news.

 
 
 
Gsquared
16.1.11  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @16.1.7    3 weeks ago

I am already convinced.  His treatment of McCain convinces me.  ("I like people who weren't  captured"???)  His general demeanor, his constant attacks on our democratic institutions convinces me.  The credibility of Jeffrey Goldberg convinces me.

I agree with John's comments in 16.1.8.

Would I like there to be identified witnesses?  Yes, but not because I have any doubt.  I assumed that might be your response, and I have no critcism of it.  However, I, too, believe any identified witnesses and their families would be in grave danger.

Do you think he didn't go to the cemetery because of rain?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
16.1.12  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @16.1.9    3 weeks ago
Jeffrey Goldberg   is the editor in chief of   The Atlantic   and a recipient of the National Magazine Award for Reporting.
 
 
 
TᵢG
16.1.13  TᵢG  replied to  Gsquared @16.1.11    3 weeks ago

His treatment of McCain told me that this is something that Trump could very well have said.   But it does not convince me that he actually said this.   I need evidence to take that next step.

So yes I believe this is consistent with Trump's character and the way he seems to think.   So it is believable.   But without evidence, it is not a fact.

Do you think he didn't go to the cemetery because of rain?

Look, I operate on evidence.   Not imagination.   You are not going to convince me that Trump said this just because he is the type of person who might indeed make such a comment.   That is no better than tabloid gossip.   So I will suspect that Trump did say this (his narcissism is impressively strong) but I am not going to be convinced without appropriate evidence.

 
 
 
Gsquared
16.1.14  Gsquared  replied to  Greg Jones @16.1.10    3 weeks ago

The fake news is everything that comes out of Trump's mouth and from his propagandists.

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.1.15  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @16.1.12    3 weeks ago
Jeffrey Goldberg   is the editor in chief of   The Atlantic   and a recipient of the National Magazine Award for Reporting.

I do not care if he is the head of journalistic ethics.   If Goldberg has evidence to back up this story then I expect it will be forthcoming.

If not, then how on Earth can you simply accept this as truth?   This is not the kind of allegation that is made sans evidence.  


By the way John, look at what you are doing.   I came into this article blasting Trump with the qualification 'if this is true'.   Now instead of me criticizing Trump (as if the hypothetical were true) I am now making comments that look as though I am defending the guy.   This is how you shoot yourself in the foot.

 
 
 
CB
16.1.16  CB   replied to  Gsquared @16.1.11    3 weeks ago

This is a video an a nice long article on the question you asked.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trumps-rain-check-honoring-americans-killed-wwi-prompts/story?id=59119504

 
 
 
JohnRussell
16.1.17  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @16.1.15    3 weeks ago

He has evidence. He has the eyewitness word of someone who was in the room.  The Atlantic is a top tier news source. They are not going to make up a story like this. 

It says it was senior staff. Had to be someone who was in the room to hear it. And the story says that. This is from a group of a half dozen people or less. They all know who it is but the source doesnt want his name in the news so he doesnt get death threats and his family doesnt get death threats. I dont know who his senior staff was in France but without doubt it is only a handful of people. Kelly would be one. Mattis may have been there. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
16.1.18  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @16.1.15    3 weeks ago

No, you shoot all of us in the foot with your both sides ism. 

 
 
 
Gsquared
16.1.19  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @16.1.13    3 weeks ago

I believe Jeffrey Goldberg over anything Trump or his propagandists say.

As an attorney, I certainly cannot argue with you over your desire for evidence, however, we are dealing with the political realm, not a court of law.  I believe that there is a substantive difference between a publication like the Atlantic and a supermarket tabloid.  

I'm actually not trying to convince you and I have total respect for your well-reasoned opinion.

 
 
 
Gsquared
16.1.20  Gsquared  replied to  CB @16.1.16    3 weeks ago

Thanks!

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.1.21  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @16.1.17    3 weeks ago
He has evidence. He has the eyewitness word of someone who was in the room.  The Atlantic is a top tier news source. They are not going to make up a story like this. 

Then the evidence will emerge.  Stay tuned.   When it arrives, ask me what I think of it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.1.22  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @16.1.18    3 weeks ago

You deem critical thinking to be 'both sides ism'.  LOL   Sorry, JR, I am not going to presume 'truth' simply because this is something that is consistent with the way Trump seems to think and a credible journalist says it is true.

If this is true, we will see evidence.   If we never see evidence and only have 'trust me, I would not lie' then you should not be convinced.

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.1.23  TᵢG  replied to  Gsquared @16.1.19    3 weeks ago
I believe Jeffrey Goldberg over anything Trump or his propagandists say.

And I certainly appreciate that Goldberg is more credible than a Trump propagandist.   Especially since this is something that I can see Trump doing.   But I have nothing on which to conclude this is true.   Possible?   Of course.   Likely?   Sure, with Trump.   Truth?   We do not know!

As an attorney, I certainly cannot argue with you over your desire for evidence, however, we are dealing with the political realm, not a court of law.  I believe that there is a substantive difference between a publication like the Atlantic and a supermarket tabloid.  

If the Atlantic is credible, it would not publish this story without a level of evidence that passed editorial integrity.  Thus, as I have noted, the evidence should come.  

If the evidence does not come then, given the severity of the claim, I will not be convinced it is true.   I will not be able to explain why this story went out sans evidence, but I will not be convinced it got the facts right.

I'm actually not trying to convince you and I have total respect for your well-reasoned opinion.

Thanks, I appreciate that.  

 
 
 
CB
16.1.24  CB   replied to  Gsquared @16.1.20    3 weeks ago
This comment is plucked from writer David Frum's twitter thread on that trip in 2018 to Europe and the memorial service.
QcgK2k4V_200x200.jpg
David Frum
@davidfrum
On site, presidential advance could easily erect a tent to protect the dignitaries ( and the the presidential hair-do ) from inclement weather
 
 
 
Gsquared
16.1.25  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @16.1.23    3 weeks ago

The potential of serious danger to the sources and their families would seem to be the most likely reason for their identities to remain confidential.  However, Kelly, Mattis and others have already openly denounced Trump, so, if they are the sources, would they be at even greater risk if their involvement is revealed?  Possibly.  Then again, if they are the sources, given their already publicized denunciations of Trump, why weren't they named in Goldberg's story in the first place.  It is all very interesting.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
16.1.26  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Gsquared @16.1.25    3 weeks ago

I would think that if the sources were Kelly, Mattis or others who have openly denounced Trump, it would be likely that they would not endanger their safety any more than they already have.  Therefore I would think it to be someone else, someone who could be vulnerable.. America's right of free speech means nothing when relating the truth about something would endanger the life of the person who speaks. 

 
 
 
CB
16.1.27  CB   replied to  TᵢG @16.1.23    3 weeks ago

I caught this story on Rachel Maddow at the tail-end. I believe the writer has anonymous sources on record. (Not permitted to disclose.) But, I am playing catch-up on it.

 
 
 
Gsquared
16.1.28  Gsquared  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @16.1.26    3 weeks ago

It seems like that may be the case.  Goldberg's article says he has four sources.  We will see how this all develops.

 
 
 
CB
16.1.29  CB   replied to  Gsquared @16.1.25    3 weeks ago

This is the problem with Donald Trump. Already people tip-toe around him (in mortal fear of their lives). This is not normal for a President of the United States discussion. Are people even listening to themselves?! Generals, and others, seriously acquiescing to a 'cut-throat' business man?!

 
 
 
TᵢG
16.1.30  TᵢG  replied to  Gsquared @16.1.25    3 weeks ago

It this is true, there is more to come.   Do you agree?

 
 
 
Gsquared
16.1.31  Gsquared  replied to  CB @16.1.29    3 weeks ago

Some could reasonably fear physical harm to themselves or their families.  There are a lot of crazies out there.

 
 
 
Gsquared
16.1.32  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @16.1.30    3 weeks ago

I don't think this story is over. What's to come remains to be seen.

 
 
 
CB
16.1.33  CB   replied to  Gsquared @16.1.31    3 weeks ago

Yet, fear is not an option. Trump exploits the fear of others.

 
 
 
Gsquared
16.1.34  Gsquared  replied to  CB @16.1.33    3 weeks ago

Trump's whole appeal is based on grievance and fear.  

There are real people with real weapons who have no fear of using them.  One lunatic shot up the pizza parlor in D.C. because he was convinced from reading a website that Hillary Clinton was running a pedophile sex slave ring out of there.  And then, there is Rittenhouse.

 
 
 
CB
16.1.35  CB   replied to  Gsquared @16.1.34    3 weeks ago

True. Still, this nation had powerful and important figures who put down mobsters for the count. Some drug lords (real bad asses) are in jail for years. Because someone/bodies dared to stand up to them in their "full-bloom."  Donald could blossom in a new four years term. This is our fork in the road, and we must here and now judge Donald unfit for all the power vested in the Presidency. And get rid of him safely and legally.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
16.1.36  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  CB @16.1.35    3 weeks ago

The ones who gave evidence against mobsters are probably in the witness protection program.  That program might not be available for those who tell stories about the POTUS.  I would not want to be Trump's sister or niece these days, although so many books about Trump are being written by ex-officials there might not be enough assassins around to take care of them.

 
 
 
Ronin2
16.1.37  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @16.1.8    3 weeks ago
Jeffery Goldberg is an extremely respected reporter. He is not remotely a hack or someone that would make up such a story. His reputation as a journalist is on the line.  The source undoubtedly doesnt want to be named because of the torrent of death threats that would follow towards he his wife, his children and grandchildren. 

In a world filled with TDS driven loons in the media, the amount of BS and lies that have been printed; and then regurgitated countless times by other media outlets to validate the same fictional "sources". Unless there is a name source, that verifies the story, it is full of shit.

This story was not made up.

Prove it.  You can't, no one can including the reporter that wrote the article. That is what he is counting on. 

Who are you going to believe , respected people with reputations or Trump and his white house lackeys.

What respected people- a nameless source? A nameless source has no reputation. For all we know the reporter is quoting the talking heads in his mind. If this source is so well respected, and has such a great reputation, they would come forward. As for death threats, if this nameless source revealed themselves Trump would be done. Biden wins in a landslide; and the overly grateful left would put up go fund me accounts to cover any security costs the person(s) needed. Don't even pretend they wouldn't. They have protected other accusers of Trump, and those that have accused people he has nominated and serving in his administration.

All the source has to do to end Trump is come forward. Until then this gets filed with the rest of the "nameless" source articles the media loves to print, in the circular bin.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
16.1.38  Bob Nelson  replied to  MAGA @16.1.6    3 weeks ago

A Trump denial, considering his disrespect for other military, is not significant. He lies about everything. Why would anyone take his word about this? 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
16.1.39  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Greg Jones @16.1.10    3 weeks ago

Besides the video of McCain being disparaged, I think there is one of him calling H. Bush a "wimp and loser".  H. Bush who at 18 enlisted, and flew 58 combat missions before being shot down in WWII off the island Chi Chi Jima.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6455765/Seven-things-Donald-Trump-learn-loser-wimp-George-H-W-Bush.html  

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.40  Tessylo  replied to  MAGA @16.1.6    3 weeks ago
"She added: "I’ve watched  @realDonaldTrump solemnly sign letters to the families of fallen heroes. He’s honored their memories by doing more than any modern president to get us OUT of endless wars."

Nonsense, like most anything from Faux 'news'

Signing letters doesn't mean shit.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
16.1.41  Tessylo  replied to  Bob Nelson @16.1.38    3 weeks ago
"Why would anyone take his word about this?"

Why would anyone take his word about anything?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
16.1.42  Ozzwald  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.40    3 weeks ago
Signing letters doesn't mean shit. 

It means someone shoved a piece of paper in front of him, and kept reminding him to sign it.  Nothing more.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
16.1.43  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.41    3 weeks ago
Why would anyone take his word about anything?

True. 

 
 
 
CB
16.1.44  CB   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @16.1.36    3 weeks ago

Hi Buzz! All the more reason to fix this right here and now. Donald will 'add to himself' more authoritarian powers of the imperial presidency in four more years. This is the juncture to politically end this power grab. If not now - when? There is nothing to fear but fear itself!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
16.1.45  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Tessylo @16.1.1    3 weeks ago

Some are not the fastest horses in the race.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
17  seeder  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

This may seem like piling on at the moment,  but this is only one of a series of shocking revelations about President Trump that are going to come out over the next 6 weeks.  I read this a couple weeks ago and mentioned it here to little effect.  People in the know have been holding their fire waiting for the heat of the campaign. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
17.1  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @17    3 weeks ago

trumpturd is the typical thug/mobster/psychopath/sociopath - I'm sure he even looks down at the working/middle class as losers and suckers, those who work hard to make an honest living.  

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
17.1.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Tessylo @17.1    3 weeks ago

Look at the contractors he's failed to pay, and all the litigations.  Those working for a living are losers in Trump's mind.

 
 
 
Tessylo
17.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @17.1.1    3 weeks ago
"Look at the contractors he's failed to pay, and all the litigations.  Those working for a living are losers in Trump's mind."

Reminded me of something from Goodfellas - Henry Hills' character - looking down on folks who worked for a living, worked hard for an honest living.  Considered them shmucks and losers.  Why work for something when you can take it by force/for free?

trumpturd is your typical thug, gangster who has never earned an honest living/worked hard/his whole life.

I mean, for example, look at those soft, smooth, oh so tiny hands.  

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
17.1.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Tessylo @17.1.2    3 weeks ago

It is all the lotion he uses to uhhhh....don't make me say it.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
17.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  JohnRussell @17    3 weeks ago
People in the know have been holding their fire waiting for the heat of the campaign. 

Seems logical. 

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
18  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom    3 weeks ago

Trump has previously made controversial comments about veterans. In 2015, before his presidential tenure, Trump said that Sen. John McCain a Vietnam veteran who was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, wasn't a war hero "because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured."

White House spokesperson Alyssa Farah told The Hill the report is false.

"President Trump holds the military in the highest regard," Farah added. "He's demonstrated his commitment to them at every turn: delivering on his promise to give our troops a much needed pay raise, increasing military spending, signing critical veterans reforms, and supporting military spouses. This has no basis in fact."

Why would Alyssa Farah state something that was so ridiculous?  Trump made the statement publicly.   The video was freaking everywhere.  I had never heard of this particular White House spokesperson, so I decided to see what info was available.  Turns out her father is J oseph Francis Farah, a journalist and editor-in-chief of the conservative conspiracy website WorldNetDaily .  What a surprise.

 
 
 
TᵢG
18.1  TᵢG  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @18    3 weeks ago
In 2015, before his presidential tenure, Trump said that Sen. John McCain a Vietnam veteran who was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, wasn't a war hero "because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured."

When he made that comment I figured he lost the vote of every USA vet.

 
 
 
Adam_Selene
18.1.1  Adam_Selene  replied to  TᵢG @18.1    3 weeks ago
When he made that comment I figured he lost the vote of every USA vet.

Sadly, I know for a fact that that he did not.

I just don't get it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
18.1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Adam_Selene @18.1.1    3 weeks ago
I just don't get it.

I have no idea other than the level of dislike for Clinton.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
18.1.3  Bob Nelson  replied to  TᵢG @18.1.2    3 weeks ago
I have no idea other than the level of dislike for Clinton.

Trump is authoritarian. Many "old White guy" vets get sucked in. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
18.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @18    3 weeks ago

McCain could have been released much sooner than the other prisoners due to family military connections but refused.  His stance was the first captured should be the first released.  It cost him four years of his life and a permanent disability.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
19  Paula Bartholomew    3 weeks ago

Trump should never be allowed to visit Arlington or any other place that honors the military dead.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
19.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @19    3 weeks ago

He wouldn't want to........ 

Maybe he should go change bedpans at a VA hospital sometime....

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
19.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @19.1    3 weeks ago

It would only interest him if the bedpans had Russian hooker pee in them.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20  Vic Eldred    3 weeks ago

However, according to four sources with knowledge of the incident


LIES FROM UNNAMED SOURCES.  UNFIT FOR NEWSTALKERS.

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.1  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @20    3 weeks ago

I agree that these are unsubstantiated allegations, but I disagree that they are lies.   We need evidence to go either way.   And given prior comments from Trump, these are hard to dismiss as 'outrageous'.

But if any PotUS made such a statement, would s/he be unfit as Commander in Chief?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @20.1    3 weeks ago
We need evidence to go either way.

Something tells me we won't be getting any. We've had 3 years of this.


But if any PotUS made such a statement, would s/he be unfit as Commander in Chief?

I agree. Did you happen to see the President respond a few minutes ago?  He was jumping out of his skin!

 
 
 
MAGA
20.1.2  MAGA  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.1.1    3 weeks ago

This is a two year old story that if it were true would have come out then.  Real stories from 2018 don’t wait for airing until 60 days out from an election 2 years away.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.1.1    3 weeks ago
He was jumping out of his skin!

Of course.   This is very damaging ... especially if it is true.

 
 
 
devangelical
20.1.4  devangelical  replied to  MAGA @20.1.2    3 weeks ago

where is that story in the timeline of the whole only trump can save us, trump the crusader, trump is the chosen one, trump is spiritually aware, and then forgiven. so is it like we're all sinners, but he does it best? vote early, vote often?

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
20.1.5  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  TᵢG @20.1    3 weeks ago
But if any PotUS made such a statement, would s/he be unfit as Commander in Chief?
This tweet was fairly convincing to me:
I am in Paris getting ready to celebrate the end of World War One. Is there anything better to celebrate than the end of a war, in particular that one, which was one of the bloodiest and worst of all time?
2:17 AM · Nov 10, 2018 · Twitter for iPhone
Here is a link to the page .  I tried to copy the whole thing, including some response tweets from people that wanted to kick his ass for saying such a disrespectful thing, but I encountered sizing difficulties.  This was my favorite @Reddington60:

ARMISTICE is NOT a celebration, it’s a time of remembrance and appreciation of the sacrifice made by others, a concept totally alien to yourself.  Your inclusion is an invitation to the OFFICE you hold, not to you personally.  Ergo, you are being seen as the Turd in the cookie jar.

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.1.6  TᵢG  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @20.1.5    3 weeks ago

I cannot imagine how anyone could argue that Trump is philosophically well suited as CiC.   He did everything he could to avoid the draft (and succeeded), has trashed heroes like McCain for getting captured (and then tortured and ending up with a broken body where he could not lift his arms more than halfway) and then refusing to be released unless his men were also released.

Trump's disrespect for brave soldiers who suffered the worst treatment coupled with his ignorance of honor and duty (and, really, anything altruistic) are fine arguments that he is a crappy CiC.

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.1.1    3 weeks ago
"I agree. Did you happen to see the President respond a few minutes ago?  He was jumping out of his skin!"

So he was surprised?  Frightened?  Of the truth . . . . . 

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.1.1    3 weeks ago
"I agree. Did you happen to see the President respond a few minutes ago?  He was jumping out of his skin!"

More like 'sweaty and terrified'

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
20.1.9  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Tessylo @20.1.8    3 weeks ago

I just hope those idiots that comprise the EC are taking notes.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @20    3 weeks ago
LIES FROM UNNAMED SOURCES.  

That is not a valid criticism, coming from the Trump camp. Trump and tbe whole Republican Party lie constantly. Observers can only compareany new statement with known previous statements. 

Trump has consistently shown disdain for combat veterans - John McCain, Tammy Duckworth, ... 

So we have a totally credible report denied by a totally not-credible serial liar.

Does anyone trust Trump? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.2.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.2    3 weeks ago

The American media lied for three years and they used unnamed sources.

You and they have been called!

Who said it?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.1    3 weeks ago

I have no idea what you mean, Vic. 

Do you trust Trump? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.2.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.2.2    3 weeks ago

I trust facts. This article lacks them. It uses unnamed sources to make a highly outrageous claim two months before an election.. For that kind of claim to be printed, people need to stand up and identify themselves. For anyone to seed it here is nothing more than partisan smearing.

John Bolton is no fan of Trump and even he debunked this story months ago:

EhCx5-cWoAEpTW4?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.3    3 weeks ago

The story is indeed outrageous... but equally credible. Trump has often trashed veterans. 

Do you deny that Trump trashed John McCain? Do you deny that Trump trashed Tammy Duckworth?

The Vanity Fair article is perfectly in keeping with Trump's previous behavior.

Outrageous. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.2.5  Vic Eldred  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.2.4    3 weeks ago
Trump has often trashed veterans. 

For being veterans???   John McCain initiated a political war with the President. It was McCain who first called Trump supporters "crazies." McCain's fatal flaw was his need for revenge. It was he who killed important legislation as payback in his feud with trump. Duckworth criticized the President for housing policies that congress hadn't even enacted, then when a possible VP candidate called him "the coward in chief."

I'd say both of those spats were political and fair game. When you enter politics, your military service does not insulate you from criticism.

On the other hand this story is based on nothing more than unnamed sources, just like the Russia Hoax was. I need proof of allegations made by a media that has lost all it's credibility.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.6  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.5    3 weeks ago
For being veterans??? 

Yes!

He said he didn't have any consideration for McCain because McCain had been captured, "I prefer men who weren't captured," said Corporal Bonespur.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.2.7  Vic Eldred  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.2.6    3 weeks ago

That was after McCain called Trump supporters crazies.

You can keep trying Bob, but you still have nothing but unnamed sources

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.2.8  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.3    3 weeks ago

John Bolton?

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.2.9  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.5    3 weeks ago

So typical regarding John McCain - HE STARTED IT!

Pffffftttttt. . . . . 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.2.10  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @20.2.8    3 weeks ago

Now he's no good?  Well, then it's simple Tess - verify the claims in this hit piece.....Oh, you can't?  Then it's just more slander and lies!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.2.11  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @20.2.9    3 weeks ago

How about a fact based argument out of you!

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.2.12  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.11    3 weeks ago
How about a fact based argument out of you!

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.2.13  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.10    3 weeks ago

Of course he is no good.  

No slander or lies, TRUTH.  

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
20.2.14  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.10    3 weeks ago

It's all she ever has..............

jrSmiley_18_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
lib50
20.2.15  lib50  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.7    3 weeks ago

Lol, wait, are you actually questioning 'unnamed sources'?  A supporter of the guy who quotes 'some people' or 'my friend John' or 'I've heard' is bent over names?  The same people who quote and push Qanon conspiracy theories grown in Putin's ass have a problem because of anonymous sources? I think its more of a panic move. We've all seen and heard what Trump says about veterans like McCain and gold star families. We know he's transactional, money and power are his measures, not service or giving of oneself to help others getting nothing in return. So when we hear what a REPUBLICAN says about his disgusting comments, we believe them. Because we've heard them and others just like them. Trumpers should be worried.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.16  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.10    3 weeks ago
Now he's no good? Well, then it's simple Tess - verify the claims in this hit piece.....Oh, you can't? Then it's just more slander and lies!

I don't understand, Vic. Everyone knows that Trump lies all the time, about everything. How can you possibly require request truth from anyone? 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.17  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.7    3 weeks ago
That was after McCain called Trump supporters crazies.

So you consider that Corporal Bonespur was justified in mocking McCain's service to the nation? 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.18  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.3    3 weeks ago

You didn't answer, Vic. It's a simple question: Do you trust Donald Trump? 

 
 
 
CB
20.2.19  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.5    3 weeks ago

A "political war" as you label it does not give Trump proper room to hurl personal insults at the character of John McCain's or anyone else military service. That is, Donald does not get to peruse an opposer's service record looking for "ammo" documents to weaponize. Trump and some of his surrogates are a-holes to have done so and utter distortions. (I will not take it back!)

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
20.2.20  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.2.6    3 weeks ago

The idiot who gave Trump that fake PH should be ostracized by every vet out there.

 
 
 
Dulay
20.2.21  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.3    3 weeks ago

Trump tweets:

"Bolton’s book, which is getting terrible reviews, is a compilation of lies and made up stories, all intended to make me look bad. Many of the ridiculous statements he attributes to me were never made, pure fiction. Just trying to get even for firing him like the sick puppy he is!" 

"Wacko John Bolton’s “exceedingly tedious”(New York Times) book is made up of lies & fake stories. Said all good about me, in print, until the day I fired him. A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war. Never had a clue, was ostracized & happily dumped. What a dope!"

Those that defend Trump by using statements  by those that Trump insists are liars and sick puppies are hypocrites. 

 
 
 
bugsy
20.2.22  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @20.2.8    3 weeks ago
John Bolton?

Funny how just a few months ago when Bolton's book came out and there were some disparaging things in it, you were on your knees bowing to all things Bolton because NOW, HE is going to be the one to take Trump down.

Fast forward to today, Bolton defends Trump, you go back to demeaning Bolton.

Not new from you.

Can you say Comey?

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.2.23  Tessylo  replied to  bugsy @20.2.22    3 weeks ago

I never bowed to Bolton.  I have said I would never buy that scumbag's book.  

You're confused.  

You're talking shit.  

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
20.2.24  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Dulay @20.2.21    3 weeks ago

MEMO TO TRUMP - You make yourself look bad.  Someone just put it on paper.  Do you want cheese with your whine?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
20.2.26  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.2    3 weeks ago

LOL @ unnamed sources when Trump continually says People tell me, but can't give one name.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.27  Bob Nelson  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @20.2.26    3 weeks ago
You didn't answer, Vic. It's a simple question: Do you trust Donald Trump? 

Funny how "unnamed sources" are perfectly acceptable when they're favorable to him...

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
20.2.28  FLYNAVY1  replied to  MAGA @20.2.25    3 weeks ago

Why in God's name would you think that statements from the First-Whore makes a difference to us "losers and suckers" that took the oath of enlistment?  

 
 
 
MUVA
20.2.29  MUVA  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.2.27    3 weeks ago

Funny how every story written about Trump uses unnamed sources I don't think Maggie thunder thighs Habermen  has sourced a story in three years    

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
20.2.30  FLYNAVY1  replied to  MUVA @20.2.29    3 weeks ago
 
 
 
CB
20.2.31  CB   replied to  MUVA @20.2.29    3 weeks ago

See you can't even deliver a proper question without a baited insult. For the record, we can't see your thighs in any form or fashion. Keep that in mind.

 
 
 
CB
20.2.32  CB   replied to  FLYNAVY1 @20.2.28    3 weeks ago

As I read her statement, I really, really do not appreciate Melania weighing in on this. (And her statement is cock-eyed to boot):

[The Atlantic] story is not true,” Mrs. Trump said. “It has become a very dangerous time when anonymous sources are believed above all else, & no one knows their motivation. This is not journalism – It is activism. And it is a disservice to the people of our great nation.”

She does not know what her husband might have stated to others he perceives as 'underlings' when she is not around. Especially since he says incredibly damning crap in defiance of all reason all the time. For which she never opines publicly to correct him. It is a dime short and dollar late for me.

Now I am angry. WTF? All she says in defense of Donald is it's not true? Then she generally goes on to attempt to lecture us about the times we live in? The times her husband wholesale creates with his big freaking wagging tongue full of lies, deceit, and firings of good, forthright friends and other 'do-gooders'? Then, she goes on to try to tell journalist what journalism is. How the heaven does she know what "good journalism" is? So far she has not upbraided her husband about his lack of understanding of what graceful public service is!  Melania, you don't get to lecture us. No! You don't!

 
 
 
CB
20.2.33  CB   replied to  FLYNAVY1 @20.2.30    3 weeks ago

President Trump denies report that he called fallen service members 'suckers' and 'losers'; national security correspondent Jennifer Griffin reports from the Pentagon.

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.2.34  TᵢG  replied to  CB @20.2.33    3 weeks ago

I wish at least one of these anonymous sources would take a stand.

But, if none do, Trump's demeanor has made it incredibly easy for people to believe reports such as these.   Even if he did not make these statements, he comes across as one who could indeed not understand the concept of altruism, honor and duty and even go to the point of holding KIA soldiers in contempt.

His McCain comment about liking people who do not get captured is now very damaging to his denial attempts.

 
 
 
CB
20.2.35  CB   replied to  TᵢG @20.2.34    3 weeks ago

I wish these several anonymous sources would dare to speak truth to power too. However, I can acknowledge the new Trump 'system' of retaliations wants to make spectacles of each new critic continuously—even If only by overwhelming the lot of them with non-violent forms of haranguing or personal harassment. And Fox News could potentially 'synch up' as an outlet for greater aggression.

Though I feel you can not join me in this sentiment, I am convinced that Donald Trump is an evil man. Trump wants to be obeyed by a free and independent people, in a manner that is not normal for us and yet here he is doing anything, including telling strategic lies, to make it so. It is a corrupting influence and cultic personality. It is a sign of a mental state that surpasses proper democratic leadership. It is an evil production.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.36  Bob Nelson  replied to  TᵢG @20.2.34    3 weeks ago
I wish at least one of these anonymous sources would take a stand.

You're asking a lot. Trump has punished anyone less than laudatory, even those theoretically protected by the law - remember Col. Vindman. He has fired one IG after the other.

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.2.37  TᵢG  replied to  CB @20.2.35    3 weeks ago
I am convinced that Donald Trump is an evil man.

I think he is a narcissist who has lived a life of prosperity and has grown to believe he is superior to most (if not all) fellow human beings.   He also demonstrably does not care about the harm he inflicts on others and will readily exploit people to benefit himself.  He is a lying, cheating, egocentric asshole with an entitlement complex who is living in a warped reality of his own imagination.

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.2.38  TᵢG  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.2.36    3 weeks ago
You're asking a lot.

Yes, but for a very good reason.

 
 
 
CB
20.2.39  CB   replied to  TᵢG @20.2.34    3 weeks ago
His McCain comment about liking people who do not get captured is now very damaging to his denial attempts.

I saw the breaking news on the McCain remarks in real-time. And, it was a formulating moment for my perceptions about Donald Trump. I have always appreciated John McCain's life story and his personal challenges post-military service. If not his politics (a "confirmed" no on Martin Luther King holiday for example).

Military pilots, can be some of the most gracious people, because they realize that it takes many people to make their high-intensity flights possible. Those officers can be the best of humanity. I can attest to this, personally.

Trump's insult to John McCain was a reach back to "sock" him hard in a manner undeserving from a man who never served and clearly could not relate to the pain and anguish endured by another man who had seen the tragedy of a ship board fire and explosion conflagration , deaths, and the gore of war.

 
 
 
Dulay
20.2.40  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @20.2.34    3 weeks ago
I wish at least one of these anonymous sources would take a stand.

Trump was pretty quick to blame Gen. Kelly, though he did leave the question open. 

If I were Kelly and the report were untrue, I would have had my staff set up an immediate interview with someone like Chris Wallace and tell the world that it was a lie. ANY journalist would drop whatever they had planned and let Kelley tell his truth. 

THE fact that Kelley has been mum is all the confirmation I need. It's also all the evidence that I need that Kelley let down the country by not coming forward the day after he resigned. 

 
 
 
CB
20.2.41  CB   replied to  TᵢG @20.2.37    3 weeks ago

It takes a lot for you to write that strongly about anybody. I know you are impacted in some significant way, now.

I did not choose to dislike Trump; on background, I liked Trump the myth from a great distance, until he unmercifully and incessantly attacked Barack Obama simply as a strategic move. Donald cared nothing for Barack or his family core for that matter to be called non-Americans (without a proper status) while positioned at the apex of national and world power, leadership, and influence.

That was an instance where I peeked the 'soul' of Donald Trump. It was a revelation. Since then, the 'hits' have just been coming non-stop. The personal mockings, the campaign mockings, the tactless, supercharged unpresidential rhetoric, the lack of 'stickability' and dedication to the cause and purposes of our on-going pandemic, and the lying (things we won't ever allow the children to get away with) to everybody all the time.

Now this. Tig, I know what it means to formulate a decision in one's heart to volunteer to serve this country. It is not a shallow undertaking for an individual. Much goes into it: Placing one's liberty under subordination, risk of pain, injury, and death, and if you're individually lucky you meet (and bond with) some of the most amazing "fellows" and "gals" across the spectrum and the world—for life!

Trump had no right to ever touch that with his nasty rhetoric (if true).

 
 
 
CB
20.2.42  CB   replied to  Dulay @20.2.40    3 weeks ago

Did you hear the rhetoric Trump poured onto General Kelly just yesterday?! Trump 'tore' General Kelly an unofficial new "a--hole." It was undignified, and crass. Even trying to deny past odious comments about military agents, Trump dissed a general undeservedly but good. Epic fail.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.2.43  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @20.2.40    3 weeks ago

To follow with your logic if, on the other hand, Kelly hated the President, he would have played it j-u-s-t the way he did OR maybe it was Kelly who concocted the story?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
20.2.44  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.43    3 weeks ago
he would have played it j-u-s-t the way he did OR maybe it was Kelly who concocted the story?

You sure are chock full of conspiracy theories. Anything to defend and deflect from this obviously incompetent moron of a President. It's just sad to watch the conspiracy theories being created in real time as some fantasize a way for Trump not to be what they all know deep down he is. Perhaps it's just their deep seated hatred for anything liberal or progressive that allows their brains to concoct complete fantasy narratives with zero evidence to defend dishonest Donald while also apparently demanding video or DNA evidence of any claims against the President. Of course even when there is video evidence they just brush it off as 'locker room talk' and continue to act like some higher moral authority.

I especially love how every Trump supporter trashed Bolton for his book calling him a disgruntled liar and such, but they're now using his book to defend the President. It truly is hilarious to watch how fucking desperate all these Trump defenders are.

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.2.45  TᵢG  replied to  CB @20.2.41    3 weeks ago
It takes a lot for you to write that strongly about anybody.

Actually it was easy.    I was speaking what I hold to be entirely factual and easily corroborated with Google searches.   Also, I doubt anyone really has the need to search.   Even Trump supporters (I suspect) know this is true.

 
 
 
bugsy
20.2.46  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @20.2.23    3 weeks ago

I don't talk shit, I speak the truth. You talk shit about every single Trump admin official or supporter, there is no exceptions, including Bolton...and even before he became part of the administration.

BTW, what happened to me being on ignore?

Still got that crush?

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.47  Freewill  replied to  TᵢG @20.2.34    3 weeks ago
I wish at least one of these anonymous sources would take a stand

A recording would be even better.  Although audio and video recordings of Trump and other politicians saying or doing unsavory things don't seem to make much difference to rabidly partisan supporters.   Such is the world we've created.

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.2.48  TᵢG  replied to  Freewill @20.2.47    3 weeks ago
A recording would be even better. 

Absolutely.   But I presume that no such recording exists because that is very easy to leak.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.2.49  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @20.2.44    3 weeks ago
You sure are chock full of conspiracy theories.

LOL, I'm not the one claiming the President made these statements and held it until two months before an election. Nor do I think someone can have a stroke and function as normal a day later.

Talk about conspiracy theories!!!

I assume those who believe opinions are ridiculous will lap this conspiracy/propaganda right up!  Then they'll call themselves "independents."


Enjoy the mad conspiracy theories from your unnamed sources.

 
 
 
CB
20.2.50  CB   replied to  Freewill @20.2.47    3 weeks ago
Although audio and video recordings of Trump and other politicians saying or doing unsavory things don't seem to make much difference to rabidly partisan supporters.

Of course, that is a cheap shot being delivered there. As you may know, circumstantial evidence is admissible in court (the more the stronger the case) and witness testimony is sufficient for public opinion-making. Validity decided by the listeners based on how many witnesses there are. Of course, a wise 'old bird' would seek not to be recorded for posterity and limit how and when s/he can be overheard making impolitic comments.

 
 
 
CB
20.2.51  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.49    3 weeks ago

Vic, some conservatives have testimony that this was stated see @20.2.33! Do not pass it up with rhetoric!

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
20.2.52  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.49    3 weeks ago
Enjoy the mad conspiracy theories from your unnamed sources.

I respect your never-ending support for your candidate of choice, Vic.  But at the end of the day, even you know he said it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.2.53  TᵢG  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @20.2.52    3 weeks ago

At least one should accept that this would be consistent for Trump.   It is, much to our national disgrace, not possible to reject this as outrageous at face value.

Now imagine it was one the recent PotUS' who is accused of labeling KIA military as 'suckers' and 'losers':

  • Obama?
  • Bush 43?
  • Clinton?
  • Bush 41?
  • Reagan?
  • Carter?

Who would not reject such an allegation as patently absurd for these prior PotUS'?

Yet when it comes to Trump, we all are scratching our heads wondering if he actually said this.   We have a sitting PotUS whose behavior has shown that it is NOT out of the question that he would say something like this in private.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
20.2.54  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @20.2.52    3 weeks ago

I know he didn't and I know what the haters are capable of.

Here's more from the Bolton book;

EhO2T35WAAM4m7L?format=jpg&name=large
Don't bother reading it, just go on with your claims that you can't prove.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
20.2.55  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Bob Nelson @20.2.6    3 weeks ago

Give Donald the clap y'all.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
20.2.56  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.54    3 weeks ago

It doesnt take two hours to say what the Atlantic quotes Trump as saying about the WW1 dead. It takes 5 or 10 seconds. Because Bolton or Sarah Sanders didnt hear it over the course of 2 or 3 days doesnt mean it wasnt said. 

CNN is reporting this morning that they have independently (of the Atlantic) confirmed, through a high up in the Trump administration, that Trump DID disparage the dead American soldiers in that WW1 cemetary in France. 

There's going to be more Vic. And you will have to defend the indefensible over and over and over. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.2.57  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @20.2.54    3 weeks ago
I know he didn't [say it]

You believe he did not say it.   You cannot possibly know.

Similarly nobody else can know he did say it.  

Right now it is a matter of assessment.   Some find these words to be entirely believable coming from Trump.   I certainly do.   But until we have something more than hearsay, nobody really knows what Trump said.

IMO, I suspect he did say words similar to these.   He shot himself in the foot when he demeaned McCain for getting caught as a POW.   That, to me, shows contempt for soldiers who are wounded, captured or killed by the enemy.

After all, would you ever demean a POW because he was captured while carrying out his orders in the field?

 
 
 
CB
20.2.58  CB   replied to  TᵢG @20.2.57    3 weeks ago
That, to me, shows contempt for soldiers who are wounded, captured or killed by the enemy.

Moreover, if Trump defames captured and returned POWs (which we have many) as not war heroes, then what does that say about our countries dead war heroes  buried deep in foreign soil?

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.2.59  TᵢG  replied to  CB @20.2.58    3 weeks ago

That is Trump's problem.   His comments disparaging John McCain due to the fact that he became a POW (did not somehow escape capture) indicate a mentality that either cannot comprehend what actually happens in war or an ego so wild that he thinks he, if in McCain's place, could have escaped capture.    His comments were worsened by the fact that McCain was tortured, his body broken and disfigured for life and yet he stayed a POW with his fellow POWs in spite of high-level power from his dad to negotiate his release.   Not sure how anyone can view that as anything less than heroic and altruistic.  

He, by attacking McCain this way, in effect stated that he finds it to be a failing of any member of the armed services to be captured by the enemy during a war.

Trump displayed a profound level of asshole with that comment and revealed a viewpoint that makes these alleged comments about WWI KIA believable (sad to say).

How any vet could vote for someone with this mentality to assume the role of Commander in Chief escapes me.   They have to do some major downplaying to overcome what is clearly an extremely unhealthy philosophy for a CiC.

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.60  Freewill  replied to  TᵢG @20.2.57    3 weeks ago
You believe he did not say it.   You cannot possibly know.

Indeed.  Likewise some believe he did say it but neither can they possibly know.  Vic has shown that there is evidence that it was Gen Kelly's and the Dept of the Navy's decision to cancel the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery visit for reasons that would have held for the proper protection of any POTUS.  So at least that part of the media story (that it was because of Trump's concern for his hair and/or his disdain for the soldiers buried there) appears to be fabricated.  Is there not at least some reason to believe that the rest of it could have been fabricated as well?

Just playing devil's advocate here (no pun intended....well maybe a little) but knowing requires proof either way.  Seems odd to be bringing this up 2 months before the election when it allegedly occurred 2 years ago.  Since there were allegedly 4 anonymous witnesses, why was this not brought to the fore when the media played up the "bad weather mussing his hair" gambit in Nov 2018?  Note now this week the media is targeting another demographic generally thought to be partial to Trump with the claims that he bad-mouthed evangelicals.  Seems like Politics 101 to me, especially given the fact that Trump himself has certainly laid the groundwork for the perpetuation of such believable stories. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.2.61  Tessylo  replied to  Freewill @20.2.60    3 weeks ago

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.62  Freewill  replied to  Tessylo @20.2.61    3 weeks ago

I like Pete.  Good video.  He suggests that we decide who to believe.  Excellent!  We know who the "who" is with Trump, but we have no "who" to consider in the 4 anonymous sources.  In order for us to make that determination, do we not need to know who those sources are, especially since several who were right there the whole time are saying that he never said anything of the sort?

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.2.63  Tessylo  replied to  Freewill @20.2.62    3 weeks ago

He doesn't suggest shit.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
20.2.64  TᵢG  replied to  Freewill @20.2.60    3 weeks ago
Likewise some believe he did say it but neither can they possibly know

Exactly.   Always go by the evidence; never believe something simply because someone claims it is true.

So I remain waiting for corroboration.   However, if this is corroborated, I will not be surprised.   The only PotUS in my lifetime (and a bit before) that I could imagine making such a statement in private is Trump (LBJ would be next, but I do not see it even with him).   The reason is twofold:

  1. Trump makes gratuitous, personal, asshole statements about people all the time.   Not even to his advantage much of the time.   For example, demeaning Chris Wallace as a Mike Wallace wannabe is just plain dumb.   The only major media outlet supporting Trump is Fox so pissing over a highly respected, quality anchor like Chris Wallace is idiotic and counterproductive.  
  2. Trump publicly demeaned John McCain regarding his military record.   McCain was a POW who was tortured so badly that his body was disfigured.   McCain refused a deal to release him because he would not go free if his comrades remained in prison.   Can anyone imagine Trump having that level of courage, honor and altruism?    So Trump, the asshole, demeans McCain because he was captured.   As if Trump has special powers to avoid being captured by the enemy while following orders in the battlefield.

So if this turns out to be true, I would not be surprised.    But I need something more than the declaration of four anonymous sources from several individual members in the media.

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.65  Freewill  replied to  TᵢG @20.2.64    3 weeks ago
So I remain waiting for corroboration.   However, if this is corroborated, I will not be surprised.  The only PotUS in my lifetime (and a bit before) that I could imagine making such a statement in private is Trump.  
So if this turns out to be true, I would not be surprised.    But I need something more than the declaration of four anonymous sources from several individual members in the media.

Absolutely!  Same feeling here my friend.  He already lost my vote in 2016, so I am bringing this up only to point out for posterity that not only do we need an honest President, we need an honest media as well.  If games are being played we need to know, not to protect the current asshat, but to protect the process.  

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.66  Freewill  replied to  Tessylo @20.2.63    3 weeks ago
He doesn't suggest shit.

Oh...my bad, let me rephrase, He SAID, "I think it's pretty easy to figure out who to believe."  And I agree, it would be if in this case we knew who the other "who" was so that we could corroborate their story with the facts and the other witnesses who were definitely there. 

You think that kind of due diligence might come in handy down the road in case unknown anonymous sources level such allegations against let's say you, or maybe Biden or somebody else whom you don't despise?

 
 
 
Tessylo
20.2.67  Tessylo  replied to  Freewill @20.2.66    3 weeks ago
"I think it's pretty easy to figure out who to believe."

Yes, and it's not trumpturd.  

 
 
 
Dulay
20.2.68  Dulay  replied to  Freewill @20.2.66    3 weeks ago

Seriously, as if Trump et. al. haven't already thrown the kitchen sink at Biden based on anonymous and/or fabricated bullshit from foreign actors, Congress and Trump. 

The RW doesn't care about due diligence. They just make shit up, create deep fake or edited video and throw out allegations, the truth be damned. That's proven here every day. 

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.69  Freewill  replied to  Dulay @20.2.68    3 weeks ago
Seriously, as if Trump et. al. haven't already thrown the kitchen sink at Biden based on anonymous and/or fabricated bullshit from foreign actors, Congress and Trump.

Never said they didn't.  And you feel as I do certainly that such false or fabricated shit should be countered with properly sourced facts and evidence correct?

The RW doesn't care about due diligence. 

So we shouldn't then in equal measure?  Who gives a shit what they care or don't care about?  Do you care about due diligence or not?  If you do, then it should ALWAYS be the proper way to uncover the truth.

They just make shit up, create deep fake or edited video and throw out allegations, the truth be damned. That's proven here every day. 

Good!  If that is the tactic then the sources should be exposed and the truth should be brought to light here every day. I agree.  The LW can just as easily make things up or throw out allegations.   I'm proposing the same litmus for finding the truth be used in ANY case.  Fair enough?

 
 
 
arkpdx
20.2.70  arkpdx  replied to  Dulay @20.2.68    3 weeks ago
The RW doesn't care about due diligence. They just make shit up, create deep fake or edited video and throw out allegations, the truth be damned. That's proven here every day. 

Did you actually write that with a straight face? That is the left stock in trade. They have gone off half cocked on so many issues (and not just Trump ) that one could not possibly count them all. The right waits for actual evidence before drawing conclusions

 
 
 
Dulay
20.2.71  Dulay  replied to  Freewill @20.2.69    3 weeks ago
Never said they didn't. 

Never said that you did. 

And you feel as I do certainly that such false or fabricated shit should be countered with properly sourced facts and evidence correct?

Yet the fact is that Trump throws so much shit at the wall that the monkeys shoveling it can't keep up. As they say, a lie can run around the world before the truth gets its boots on.

I think that the record of my time here proves that I honor facts and research them to the best of my ability. Yet I also understand the concept of 'the preponderance of the evidence' and that tells me that the allegations in the Atlantic are Trump in spades. 

Could evidence be forwarded that 'he said this but he didn't say that'? Sure.

I haven't seen THAT evidence. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.72  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tessylo @20.2.61    3 weeks ago

Pete does a good job. 

Wanna bet he'll be Secretary of something or other? 

 
 
 
Dulay
20.2.73  Dulay  replied to  arkpdx @20.2.70    3 weeks ago
Did you actually write that with a straight face? That is the left stock in trade.

The "left' aren't the ones putting out fabricated, doctored, deed fake campaign ads. That's the RNC, Trump and GOP Congressmen.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.74  Bob Nelson  replied to  Dulay @20.2.73    3 weeks ago

You're wasting your time, Dulay. You're right, of course, but the Republicans not only produce all that crap, but they also happily swallow it. 

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.75  Freewill  replied to  Dulay @20.2.71    3 weeks ago
Could evidence be forwarded that 'he said this but he didn't say that'? Sure. I haven't seen THAT evidence. 

Well he definitely said about McCain that, "“ He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured .”  That statement was just one of many that led me to part ways with the Republican party when it became clear they backed Trump in the primary in 2016.  Although the bit about him calling McCain a "loser" had nothing to do with his military service as many still suggest.  He was talking about McCain losing to Obama in 2008. 

Trump told a conservative forum in Iowa in 2015 that his view of McCain changed when McCain lost the 2008 presidential election to Obama. “He lost, so I never liked him as much after that, ’cause I don’t like losers,” he said.

As far as evidence pertaining to the specific allegations in the Atlantic article, this has already been covered above but allow me to summarize here.

1.   The Atlantic article says,

Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.

However, there is evidence both in Bolton's book (Vic presented it in two places above) and in FOAI records from 2018 that indicate the Marine 1 flight was cancelled due to weather and there were concerns about the logistics and protection of the President in a suitable 50 mile trek via motorcade.  These known facts directly contradict the reasons given by the alleged sources for the President not attending that particular ceremony, yet he did attend one within 5 miles the following rainy day.

2.   While I know you will scoff at this, HERE is the testimony of 21 officials who work closely with the President, 14 of whom were by his side nearly the entire time on the trip in question.  Each is willing to stand by their statements in the face these accusations without the fear that they will be found to be liars.  The "anonymous sources", well not so much.  Who were they and were they even there? Don't you think that should be known?

So there is evidence that the story could be fabricated.  In addition to the 4 sources coming forward and facing additional questions as to the veracity of their claims, I'd also like to know what John Kelly has to say and what the Secret Service has to say about the events of 10 Nov 2018. 

So there is the evidence we have so far.  Let's see what happens, but honestly the truth won't surprise me one way or the other.

 
 
 
CB
20.2.76  CB   replied to  Bob Nelson @20.2.72    3 weeks ago

I like Pete. This man models the expression, "thinks on his feet." Also, he is definitionally alert; and, clearly very comfortable in his skin.

 
 
 
CB
20.2.77  CB   replied to  Freewill @20.2.75    3 weeks ago

Donald Trump has been "digging" McCain since 1999:

Check out this video. It's very interesting throughout. I will let you find the mention of McCain on you own.

Dan Rather Interviews Donald Trump (& Melania) 1999 / Producer: Steve Glauber

Feature! A 'youthful" girl-friend Melania is in the video too.

 
 
 
Dulay
20.2.78  Dulay  replied to  Freewill @20.2.75    3 weeks ago
there were concerns about the logistics and protection of the President in a suitable 50 mile trek via motorcade.

Yet the Chief of Staff General John Kelly and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Joe Dunford attended and they made that exact 50 mile trek via motorcade.

That excuse just doesn't seem to hold water. 

21 officials who work closely with the President

How many of them signed an NDA? 

 
 
 
CB
20.2.79  CB   replied to  Dulay @20.2.78    3 weeks ago

There were many other world leaders present at the service the "American" president failed to attend. Many other world leaders. Speaks volumes. (They did not walk there unsecured.)

 
 
 
CB
20.2.80  CB   replied to  Freewill @20.2.75    3 weeks ago

Oops! There it is:

Annotation-2020-09-04-085608.jpg

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.81  Freewill  replied to  Dulay @20.2.78    3 weeks ago
That excuse just doesn't seem to hold water.

Perhaps, but don't you think that a motorcade that involves the POTUS, not just high ranking officials, requires a great deal more security and logistics in terms of shutting down traffic along the route? 

How many of them signed an NDA? 

Let's assume they did, another option then would have been to simply say nothing.  An NDA does not compel one to lie for the other party to the Agreement.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
20.2.82  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Freewill @20.2.81    3 weeks ago
Perhaps, but don't you think that a motorcade that involves the POTUS, not just high ranking officials, requires a great deal more security and logistics in terms of shutting down traffic along the route? 

I heard a former national security advisor from a previous administration put it like this   -  it is the job of the Secret Service to get the president from one place to another, no matter what the logistical problems. If Trump said he wanted to go they would have got him there and back safely. Others went, including other heads of state and including other high ranking US officials. 

 
 
 
Dulay
20.2.83  Dulay  replied to  Freewill @20.2.81    3 weeks ago
Perhaps, but don't you think that a motorcade that involves the POTUS, not just high ranking officials, requires a great deal more security and logistics in terms of shutting down traffic along the route? 

Not really. The Secret Service is well known for planning ahead and I'm sure that they had a 'go to' route. They knew about the weather by 6 AM that day. Plenty of time. They'd have police or military escorts. Paris knew they were fucked while the 'Allies' were in town for the ceremonies. Lot's of other people managed to get their. 

All Trump had to say is "I'm going". DONE.

Trump and Melania went to dinner in Paris that night across town via motorcade. 

IMHO, the idea that Trump gave even one fuck about causing traffic issues is laughable. 

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.84  Freewill  replied to  Dulay @20.2.83    3 weeks ago
IMHO, the idea that Trump gave even one fuck about causing traffic issues is laughable.

LOL. Now that part I don't doubt! 

The rest of it sure would be nice to hear from the Secret Service directly.  From the evidence we have, the trek to that cemetery was 50-55 miles along routes difficult to secure to the level the SS would require for POTUS.  Indeed it took over 90 minutes each way for Kelly and Dunford to make the trip in their much smaller motorcade.  According to Bolton's account, of course written well before this Atlantic article, the main concern was being unable to evacuate the President quickly in the case of an emergency.  A shorter trip to a restaurant, and also to the other cemetery they visited the next day only 5 miles from where they stayed are completely different animals. 

Again, it will be very interesting to hear Kelly and Dunford's accounts, and if possible what the Secret Service had really directed that day.  Hearing from those sources could move us much closer to knowing what really happened.

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.85  Freewill  replied to  JohnRussell @20.2.82    3 weeks ago
it is the job of the Secret Service to get the president from one place to another, no matter what the logistical problems. If Trump said he wanted to go they would have got him there and back safely.

Maybe so.  That is why it would really be nice to know what the Secret Service and security team actually advised that day.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
20.2.86  Bob Nelson  replied to  CB @20.2.76    3 weeks ago
I like Pete.

Articulate. Rare, these days... 

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.87  Freewill  replied to  CB @20.2.76    2 weeks ago
I like Pete. This man models the expression, "thinks on his feet." Also, he is definitionally alert; and, clearly very comfortable in his skin

Yep. I like him too.  Had I the opportunity to vote in the Democratic primary, I likely would have voted for him.  I found out too late that I would have needed to request a Democratic primary ballot as a NPP voter here in CA.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
20.2.88  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Freewill @20.2.87    2 weeks ago

Welcome to the world of being an independent. 

 
 
 
Dulay
20.2.89  Dulay  replied to  Freewill @20.2.84    2 weeks ago

I think since we haven't heard from Kelly to date, that he will remain mute. It's impossible to square that cowardice with the bravery that he exhibited before he worked for Trump. I can only think that Kelly signed an NDA and is choosing to honor it.

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.90  Freewill  replied to  Dulay @20.2.89    2 weeks ago
I can only think that Kelly signed an NDA and is choosing to honor it.

Perhaps, although if there is such an NDA it certainly hasn't stopped Kelly from discussing other issues he had with Trump, or agreeing with General Mattis' scathing comments about Trump.  Obviously Trump doesn't care for many things Kelly has already divulged about him, his attitude and his policies, but he hasn't sued him for breach of an NDA as far as I am aware. 

There are times since he left his position when Kelly has refused to answer specific questions that might fall under the protection of "executive privilege".  Don't see why that would apply here as it is not really a matter of national security, nor the safety of the President after the fact, and as far as we know Trump has not asserted that privilege in this case.

I think the media should keep the pressure on Kelly, Dunford and the Secret Service to clear up what really happened that day.

 
 
 
Dulay
20.2.91  Dulay  replied to  Freewill @20.2.90    2 weeks ago

The Secret Service will not comment. PERIOD, full stop. 

Kelly may cave to pressure eventually but I would think that he could have said something after Trump called him out the other day yet he stayed mute. 

I think that if the allegation were untrue, Kelly would have no reason NOT to speak up. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
20.2.92  Raven Wing  replied to  Dulay @20.2.91    2 weeks ago
he could have said something after Trump called him out the other day yet he stayed mute. 

Kelly showed his worth by taking the high road, where Trump likes to crawl around in the gutter.

 
 
 
Freewill
20.2.93  Freewill  replied to  Dulay @20.2.91    2 weeks ago
I think that if the allegation were untrue, Kelly would have no reason NOT to speak up.

Good point, unless he just doesn't want to do Trump any favors.  (-:   Sure would be nice to know for certain.   

I think you are probably right about the SS though, although I don't know why their conclusion/recommendation that day would be a matter of national security or secrecy at this point.

 
 
 
CB
21  CB     3 weeks ago

In material fact, there are many instances of people coming forward to state conversations and attitudes they have experienced with Donald Trump:

  1. There is the bus tape with Billie Bush. Trump tried to deny it was his voice - until he came into plain view stepping in living color off the bus.
  2. There was the woman Donald "messed with in her nether-regions" on a irflight.
  3. There was a famous female writer who says Trump threw her up against a dressing room wall and inserted several fingers. . . . .
  4. The casino black guys Trump stated he did not wish to count casino money - only Jews with yarmulkes. . . .
  5. The social pictures with Jeffrey Epstein, alleged child molester. . . .

Trump denied any of those happened. Donald, sure does lie alot! The material evidence is stacking up!

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
22