Oklahoma's anti-critical race theory law violates free speech rights, ACLU suit says
Category: News & Politics
Via: perrie-halpern • 5 years ago • 516 commentsBy: Tyler Kingkade and Antonia Hylton (NBC News)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
OKLAHOMA CITY — A coalition of civil rights groups sued the state of Oklahoma on Tuesday over a law limiting instruction about race and gender in public schools. It is the first federal lawsuit to challenge a state statute implemented to prevent the teaching of critical race theory.
The suit, backed by the American Civil Liberties Union and the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, argues that HB 1775, which took effect in May, violates students' and teachers' free speech rights and denies people of color, LGBTQ students and girls the chance to learn their history.
The Oklahoma law bans teaching that anyone is "inherently racist, sexist or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously," or that they should feel "discomfort, guilt, anguish or any other form of psychological distress" because of their race or sex. Under rules imposed by the state, teachers or administrators found in violation of the law can lose their licenses, and schools can lose accreditation.
The lawsuit asks a federal judge to immediately halt enforcement of the law and declare it unconstitutional under the First and Fourteenth amendments.
"HB 1775 is a direct affront to the constitutional rights of teachers and students across Oklahoma by restricting conversations around race and gender at all levels of education," said Megan Lambert, the legal director of the ACLU of Oklahoma.
Gov. Kevin Stitt, a Republican, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. He has said previously that the law would ensure that no taxpayer money would be used "to define and divide young Oklahomans about their race or sex."
Over the past year, conservative activists have accused public and private schools of teaching critical race theory, an academic concept examining the way institutions perpetuate racism that is typically taught in graduate schools. School district leaders across the country have said they do not teach critical race theory, but conservative activists have added the label to any discussions about race that they consider too progressive.
Oklahoma is one of five Republican-controlled states to have passed laws limiting how schools teach race and gender this year. Other states, including Alabama, Georgia and Florida, have limited discussions of race in schools through decrees by education officials, while states such as Texas approved measures requiring schools to present contrasting viewpoints on contentious issues.
Legislators in Oklahoma defended HB 1775 when it passed in the spring as a measure that would prevent teachers from making white students feel personally responsible for past racism. They also said it would protect students of color from racial stereotyping. The law's backers said they intended to prohibit classroom conversations about concepts like "systemic racism" and "intersectionality" to prevent "indoctrination" of students.
"The law ensures that all history is taught in schools without shaming the children of today into blaming themselves for problems of the past, as radical leftists would prefer," state Rep. Kevin West, a Republican and chief sponsor of HB 1775, said in reaction to the lawsuit.
Genevieve Bonadies Torres, a attorney with the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, said the group has received reports of Oklahoma schools striking classic literature that deals with racial conflict from the curriculum in response to the law, including "To Kill a Mockingbird" by Harper Lee, "A Raisin in the Sun," a play by Lorraine Hansberry, and "Their Eyes Were Watching God" by Zora Neale Hurston. Districts have also instructed teachers to stop using terms like "diversity" and "white privilege" in class, according to the lawsuit.
"I felt like it was a shot at teachers like me who really want to see Black and brown kids really do something with their lives," said Anthony Crawford, a high school English teacher in Oklahoma City. "Because they need this part of history. They need to understand what happened to their people."
Anthony Crawford teaching at Millwood High School in Oklahoma City.NBC News
Donovan Chaney, 17, a high school senior in Crawford's class, who is Black, said he sees the law as "the way to censor our next generation, so they don't know all the horrible things that went on before they were born."
The suit was filed on behalf of the University of Oklahoma chapter of the American Association of University Professors, the state chapter of the NAACP, the activist group American Indian Movement-Indian Territory and high school teacher Regan Killackey. Also among the plaintiffs are the Black Emergency Response Team, a group formed by University of Oklahoma students to combat racism after Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity members were captured on video in 2015 singing a song about lynching that included the N-word.
The fraternity racism scandal prompted the University of Oklahoma to take several steps to improve the campus climate, including requiring all first-year students to take part in a Freshman Diversity Experience, a one-day diversity training. The university said that because of the new law, it will now allow students to opt out of the program, as well as sexual harassment training.
"Not having these trainings and not giving incoming freshmen these tools has had a tangible impact on our clients, who say that they feel less safe on campus knowing that not only have people not been trained on these important and complicated and difficult questions, but they don't feel supported by the university, either," said Emerson Sykes, a staff attorney with the ACLU.
Oklahoma's law is particularly egregious, the suit says, because it limits discussion of dark periods of the state's history by preventing students and teachers from asking uncomfortable questions. The suit lists several moments that are difficult for educators to cover: the 1889 Land Runs, in which settlers raced to claim land in Oklahoma's Indian Territory; the 1921 Tulsa Massacre, when a white mob attacked a community known as Black Wall Street, killing hundreds of people and destroying homes and businesses; and the state's constitutional provision that required racially segregated schools until the U.S. Supreme Court outlawed them in 1954.
When Stitt signed HB 1775 in May, he said that educators "can and should teach this history without labeling a young child an 'oppressor'" and that the law would not prevent that.
Tags
Who is online
232 visitors
Somehow, that the ACLU (American Civil Leftist Union) has taken this up is not surprising at all./s
The American Civil Liberties Union stands up for your rights, as well.
They've never stood for mine personally, but then again I had bad experience with them years ago so my feelings may be somewhat biased.
They can’t count to two.
It's a stupid lawsuit against a stupid law.
Yep.
It's not being taught. So why did Oklahoma pass this law? It would appear that they want to hide their racist past, in regards to their treatment of Native Americans and their role in the Civil War (yet another State the fought to preserve the right to enslave another human being.)
So not a frivolous lawsuit.
Oklahoma was non existent during the Civil War .. it was considered 'Indian Territory' .. sooo 'um .. nope NOT "yet another State that fought to preserve the right to enslave another human being"
Critical Race Theory .. do you know what it is?
Probably for the same reason they've outlawed Sharia Law, despite the fact it's not happening either.
Excellent point .. Oklahoma did outlaw Sharia law .. it was deemed unconstitutional due to the separation of church and state .. although Sharia is the law of Islam which is a religion...
This is a political lawsuit, it has no legal merit. One need only look at the law itself to know there is no attempt to forbid teaching subjects or coverup anything .
What's the present day value of wallowing in the sins of the past?
This is pure political posturing.
Question asked, and answered, you may continue your spinning now.
White guilt and reparations. Start it young so by the time they are old enough to vote the seeds will be planted.
Perfect example
Noone gives a damn about guilt-tripping Whites. Run from your history all you wish some conservatives! This won't be the first time, you've shitted on people and tried to hide from the "shitty deals" done!
It will always be an anchor gripping the souls of your 'generations' if only as myth and legend. Because once again, some conservatives (always the 'spoilers') want to deny truths and instead delude themselves into thinking "Ain't I Great?"
Hell no, some conservatives! You all ain't Great! In fact, some conservatives are the vexations and boiling bumps on the butt of history, because from day to day, issue to issue, y'all never miss any opportunity to pretend to be leaders of people who simply want you to go tell the truth, let it stand as truth, and generally just fall silent in the face of truth!
Nothing in this law prevents teaching the truth.
Educate yourself on the topic before flying into an irrational rant.
Educate yourself on the topic before flying into an irrational rant.
Then there would be no objections to the statute.
I will not be patronized today.
As to some conservatives looking to run into the future by hiding from the past: It won't be allowed to happen. Some conservatives, our laws will reflect the truths about all activities in red-states which occurred. There will be little or nothing of importance to be known that won't be known. Even if some conservatives write it out of local books, your children will have it explained to them by a truthful nation all around and on every side!
Reparations are certainly the end goal.
Do you believe that black families in this country lost generational wealth due to segregation and racial prejudice?
The banking system of this country funneled black home buyers into less lucrative properties. I read a story about a black ww2 vet and his wife who wanted to buy a home in Leavittown, the post ww2 Long Island development.
The home values in Leavittown rose dramatically, in some cases providing "generational wealth" to the families of owners. The black vet and those like him were left out.
Who is going to pay for these injustices? No one? Tough luck, eh?
By the theories of the case you propose, no past injustices can ever be addressed.
The banking system in America redlined black home buyers and prevented them from buying in certain areas and neighborhoods, areas where property values increased, and kept these blacks in areas where property values decreased. Who is going to right these injustices? No one?
Of course there should be collective "white guilt".
If a group of people were systematically disadvantaged by the institutions of the United States, then the United States should make amends.
So what? Was red-lining, block-busting, and government programs designed and implemented to hold minorities out of the wealth stream of this country occurring or not? Jack_Tx please proceed!
I don't need white guilt from innocent people whose hands are actually clean of racial practices. We simply need some conservatives to stop all deceptive practices that won't and don't make life work for all the citizens of this country!
Guilt derives from those who have in history and those individuals, companies, and institutions presently benefitting from blocking wealth creation, equality, and equity in minority communities.
They happened and they stopped decades ago.
Maybe you can start by throwing some cash at them.
Leave the rest of us alone.
It happened within our life time, Jack. People who were red-lined against are alive today and have not been properly dealt with under the law, Jack. "Block-busting" (or lying on minorities for profit) still happens. And "cheating" minorities out of their property sell values is happening right now.
Sorry, that you think that because they are minorities that they should just "get along now." For the record, White Americans bring 'cases' of injustice to court and get restitution, Jack (as a consequence of "whiteness" it's a given.)
If reparations were ever to be given, you would have no choice in the matter, you would pay up just like everyone else, unless you became a tax cheat.
I think that eventually some form of reparations will go forward, but it is very complicated and would also have to include Native Americans, and it is a long way off most likely. We will probably all be dead and gone by the time something gets done.
Caustic remark, aside. Maybe we (all) can keep going to court and applying for justice under the Rule of Law!
That is the problem. Some conservatives don't want to do what is right by minorities. Greedy clutchers of other people rights and privileges and benefits. It's sickeningly indefensible, and yet they try as the day is long.
Many white people are personally insulted when the long lived institutional racism of America is pointed out to them.
They think they are being individually blamed, which is not the case.
There are people in this country, most likely in the millions, who think that white responsibility for racism ended on the day the slaves were freed in 1865. To them, whatever happened to blacks and other people of color after 1865 was their own fault. They ignore the 150 years since, most of which was an era of harsh segregation and discrimination which was almost as damaging to the hopes of people of color as slavery was.
We are awash in willful ignorance.
Why?
We've been through this, John. I don't feel guilty for stuff I had zero control over. Most of the shit you describe stopped before I was born.
You also don't give a tinker's damn about black people, or you'd be talking about the active discrimination that goes on today instead of wallowing in misplaced self-loathing for sins of a bygone era. But examining what's happening today might mean you actually have to change your behavior instead of just spending somebody else's money.
I'm not going to agree to finance your crusade so you can give yourself some fleeting relief from your own neurotic emotions.
I havent insulted you much, but if you want I will be happy to start.
Your own individual "guilt'' , or not, over racism and discrimination is irrelevant to whether or not past injustices need to be corrected. Get that through your thick head.
It is willful ignorance borne out of benefiting off others - in this case minorities. These whites (conservatives) are not dumb, they hear from their white (liberals) counterparts - and I know for a fact white people value other white people points of view more than some minorities. That is, white people listen to other white people in large part.
But what this is, is some conservatives letting their 'race' flag fly high and their "wilding out" to say we don't give a shit; we did it and we won't apologize or plan to ever make it equal or equitable. And so - get over it.
We will not. We will not forget and they will not either!
Decades ago. I was 2 years old when redlining was outlawed.
In the 50+ years since, the median net worth of black families has barely moved. Why is that?
Don't try to tell me what I think. You absolutely have no idea.
The hell you haven't.
As is yours. Was the irony intentional?
What do you propose?
Which practices, specifically?
You? It's the collective "our," Jack. Moreover, it should never happen again! We will not let the collective "us" forget or whitewash red-lining out of history. And Americans need to be compensated for what was stolen from them by institutional racism, Jack.
Did you watch the video @8.3.13, Jack. It's not a joke, or satire.
www.marketwatch.com /story/heres-why-black-families-have-struggled-for-decades-to-gain-wealth-2019-02-28
Here’s why black families have struggled for decades to gain wealth
Darrick Hamilton, , Trevon Logan 7-8 minutes
Black History Month has become the time to reflect on all the progress black Americans have made, but the sobering reality is that when it comes to wealth — the paramount indicator of economic security — there has been virtually no progress in the last 50 years.
While there is no magic bullet for racism, access to wealth, and the security to pass it down from one generation to the next, would go a long way toward changing the economic trajectory for blacks.
As researchers who study historical and contemporary racial inequality, we mostly conceive of wealth as a maker of success, but its true value is functional: the independence and economic security that it provides.
Out of slaveryUntil the end of legal slavery in the U.S., enslaved people were considered valuable assets and a form of wealth. In the South, entrepreneurs and slave owners took loans out against the collateral value of their property in the form of people to fund new businesses.
The U.S. government has a long history of facilitating wealth for white Americans. From at least the Land Act of 1785 , Congress sought to transfer wealth to citizens on terms that were quite favorable. In some instances, land could be attained by the luck of the draw — but only if you were a white man .
“ It was never the case that a white asset-based middle class simply emerged. Rather, it was government policy, and to some extent literal government giveaways, that provided whites the finance, education, land and infrastructure to accumulate and pass down wealth. ”
While the 1866 Homestead Act sought to include blacks specifically in the transfer of public lands to private farmers, discrimination and poor implementation doomed the policy . Black politicians during Reconstruction attempted to use tax policy to force land on the market , but this was met with violent resistance.
While blacks did make gains in wealth acquisition after chattel slavery ended, the pace was slow and started from a base of essentially nothing. Whites could use violence to force blacks from their property via the terrorism of whitecapping , where blacks were literally run out of town and their possessions stolen. This includes the race riots, as in Memphis in 1866 and Tulsa in 1921 , which systematically destroyed or stole the wealth blacks had acquired, and lowered the rate of black innovation . Black wealth was tenuous without the rule of law to prevent unlawful seizures.
By 1915, black property owners in the South had less than one-tenth of the wealth of white landowners .
This trend remained stable for the next 50 years. In 1965, 100 years after Emancipation, blacks were more than 10% of the population, but held less than 2% of the wealth in the U.S., and less than 0.1% of the wealth in stocks . Wealth had remained fundamentally unchanged and structurally out of reach of the vast majority of blacks.
Housing assistance and educationThese racially exclusionary systems endured well into the 20th century.
A complicit Federal Housing Administration permitted the use of restrictive covenants, which forbade home sales to blacks; redlining, which defined black communities as hazardous areas, directly reducing property values and increasing rates; and general housing and lending discrimination against African-Americans through the 20th and 21st centuries .
Moreover, blacks were largely excluded from the New Deal and World War II public policies, which were responsible for the asset creation of an American middle class.
The GI Bill is one example of several postwar policies in which the federal government invested heavily in the greatest growth of a white asset-based American middle class, to the exclusion of blacks. Historian Ira Katznelson documents that, by 1950, via the GI Bill, the American government spent more on education than the Marshall Plan that rebuilt Europe. But most American colleges and universities were closed to blacks, or open to only but a few in token numbers.
Meanwhile, GI benefits in education, employment, entrepreneurship and housing assistance were all distributed overwhelmingly toward whites. In the Jim Crow segregated South, there was a truncated housing supply. These factors limited the ability of historically black colleges and universities to accommodate the education and housing needs of black veterans .
It is important to note that it was never the case that a white asset-based middle class simply emerged. Rather, it was government policy, and to some extent literal government giveaways, that provided whites the finance, education, land and infrastructure to accumulate and pass down wealth. In contrast, blacks were largely excluded from these wealth generating benefits. When they were able to accumulate land and enterprise, it was often stolen, destroyed or seized by government complicit theft, fraud and terror.
Building new wealthNonetheless, blacks have still been able to overcome tremendous odds, particularly in acquiring education. Social science research indicates that blacks attain more years of schooling and education credentials than whites from families with comparable resources . In other words, blacks place a premium on education as a means of mobility.
Despite this investment, the racial wealth gap expands at higher levels of education. Black families where the head graduated from college have less wealth than white families where the head dropped out of high school .
Rather than education leading to wealth, it is wealth that facilitates the acquisition of an expensive education. The essential value of wealth is its functional role; the financial security to take risks and the financial agency that wealth affords is transformative.
In our view, education alone cannot address the centuries-long exclusion of blacks from the benefits of wealth-generating policies and the extraction of whatever wealth they may have. The most just approach would be a comprehensive reparation program that acknowledges these grievances and offers compensatory restitution, including ownership of land and other means of production.
Darrick Hamilton is executive director of the Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity at The Ohio State University. Trevon Logan is the Hazel C. Youngberg Distinguished Professor of Economics at The Ohio State University. This was first published by The Conversation — “ Why wealth equality remains out of reach for black Americans ”.
Emphatically.
And so, Jack_Tx tries to tell you what he thinks you think and give a damn about!
Jack_Tx, I am not about to consume my energy to placate you and some others here for shit that is obvious to blind people with functioning brains and common-sense.
Moreover, a list of what is wrong with some conservatives is beyond the scope of this article.
Yes. And that is what some conservatives want to avoid discussing. Even when government programs were finally allowed to provide aid, some conservatives would bitch and moan (like they do about abortion, women wage equality, affirmative action, and damn near all progress) about it until they could make it ineffective or atrophied. For example: Reagan and his anecdotal "sensational telling about the welfare queen. Find one or two instances of some deed and blow it out of proportions as the new norm.
Redlining caused a loss of generational wealth, Jack. It was a firm 'set-back,' Jack. While we were oppressed, some conservatives enjoyed "American pie, flag-waving, American 'Way,' and liberty and justice" for some conservatives, Jack!
But you see to have this idea that some conservatives have been playing 'nice' with minorities since red-lining ended. That has not been the whole story, Jack. Indeed, we have had all kinds of national and cultural hurdles to climb since then, Jack. Again, beyond the scope of this discussion. You will just have to go look into it yourself.
Minorities, with Black Americans at point, have caught a great deal of hell in our country. And we still do. Just look at Mitch McConnell, "whitecapping" the vote in D.C. with the aid of other some conservatives in congress and in governorships. Yet, they SAY they want justice and equality for all with their lying lips.
They are already being given...in the form of affirmative action, welfare benefits, subsidies for many things. What more do you think should be given?
I say nothing.
John, seriously....
It's your forte'
What shit is that exactly? And why would you imagine I care whether you placate anyone or not?
So you continue to claim.
In the context of this discussion, it appears as though you consider that horrible, evil, nefarious group to include anyone who doesn't agree to hand out free money based on race.
Do correct me if I've misread that.
Let's not waste time with 'unhelpful back and forth.' I choose not to lecture you on commonsense, American history, racial inequality, or politics of the past. If that makes you feel "bigger" and "stronger" than me—it's not my fault (and it's highly probable not truth), nevertheless.
I thank for the distraction, but I can't accept the invitation this time.
As for "free money" - here comes that old canard again. Tell me, just how much money do you think you have earned and benefits you have received because of of minorities living, working, and striving in this country, Jack?
Just how much money accumulated in this country belongs to just some conservatives in your 'guesstimation,' Jack_Tx. Give me a 'ball-park' amount.
You have yet to set out a suggestion for resolution.
You also have yet to mention any of the current, ongoing issues destroying the ability of black Americans to build wealth, like the vast disparity in the quality of education available in white public schools vs black ones....or how our public schools convince young black men that their primary value to society is as gladiators on a gridiron so we can watch them crush their skulls on Friday night while we pretend to teach them math on Tuesday morning.
You've been sucked into John's vortex of past offenses, which always ends with complete non-solutions that extend and cement the underclass status of black Americans.
I'd say a decent education, for starters. Which they don't get now.
Public high schools rubber stamp their diplomas and send them into the world without a chance in hell to compete. Look at the ridiculous discrepancy in SAT scores between black kids and white kids. It's criminal.
And you ignore the billions of dollars and decades worth of affirmative action benefits, minority set asides for contractors, community development grants etc etc.....
I
Resolutions? Some conservatives are the problem, Jack. Not "team remedy!" We don't need some conservatives to fix black education: just get the hell out of the way, Jack!
How dare you insult black athletes! We have numerous black intellectuals throughout our history in this country; granted we would have more such inventors and high achievers if we did not have to confront and strive with some conservatives for the duration of our lives.
But you just showed me something that is in your head and yes, I got the visual, Jack. You're bitter. We've heard that canard about the black performers before: "singing and jivin."
Well, you know what Jack. It kept us alive and ultimately we clothe and feed our families (and started record labels too) in a country that tried to pigeon-hole us and staple minorities to beneath the wage floor. Oops! We have black and other minority millionaires and billionaires. Hell, our rappers are doing quite well too - they 'eat' sufficiency in our society for 'poorly educated' —"negroes."
As for the "underclass" status, don't fret. When some conservatives get out of the way with our help; we will see who is permanently 'down and out' finally for real.
How many billions of dollar programs were instituted to help some conservatives built wealth (off the hard work of minorities), Sean? Remember, you did not need to manipulate the programs, as a supreme court justice once put it, blacks (and other minorities) have no rights and privileges that a white man has to respect! Thus, som conservatives did not respect us then and did not respect us during the benefit programs, contract set-asides, or development grants.
Oh, you think we did not know? (We did!) Yes,we watched and endured these 'tests, trials, and tribulations' of some conservatives doing all they could to minimize, evaluate, 'cut the heart out of,' and bad-mouth the good meant to build minorities up.
Oh and btw the way; it was not just some conservative money involved! It was state, federal, and local funds-which comes from the whole of society. Some conservatives got/get their share too (and a lot of it at that)!
Tell us what they're stopping you from doing?
I didn't. I accused the institutions that exploit them. Read it again. I coached black athletes for 30 years. I've seen the exploitation first hand, hundreds of times.
So black millionaires are either athletes or rappers.... Niiiiiice. I'm guessing we can throw comedians and actors in, as well, yes? Thank you for making my point.
By contrast, white millionaires are investment bankers or business owners or cardiac surgeons or orthodontists or car dealers or real estate agents. But as often, they're just ordinary people who worked a pretty good job and understood money enough to put it to work in their 401(k) or IRA or maybe the rent house they bought.
And then we teach our kids how to do that.
When we start to educate your kids the same way we educated mine, and we start to put the same expectations on your kids as we do mine, the underclass status will disappear very quickly.
Have I made your point, Jack. Is say, Oprah Winfrey; a 'rapper' or athlete? I will let you decide. Furthermore, don't ever confront me with your ridiculous criticism of how good people who are not thugs, robbers, liars, pimps, and 'hos," and so forth provide food, shelter, clothing, and prosperity for themselves in a society where they diligently are trying to live under the rules of the game developed and kept in place by a majority of white male domination. Domination of recent which is reverting to power-grabs, insularity, and insincerity as a means to control and setback 'Others.'
Other than that, you are just about to piss me off with your "better than thou" comparisons of unequal realities - as though you can't understand what the hell goes on in this country.
As for the rest of your comment; one might get an impression there are no poor, miserable, uneducated 'Whites' in this country; is that true, Jack?
Lastly, where do you get off implying that the good in this country stems from White people alone? Where in this country are those lines of distinction on ideas, concepts, and discoveries - care to point them out to me, us?
www.businessinsider.com /welfare-policy-created-white-wealth-largely-leaving-black-americans-behind-2020-8
How decades of US welfare policies lifted up the white middle class and largely excluded Black Americans
Marguerite Ward 19-24 minutes 8/11/2020
When President Donald Trump met with the Congressional Black Caucus in 2018, the topic of welfare reform came up. One member of the caucus told Trump that enforcing stricter rules would be detrimental to her constituents, "Not all of whom are Black," according to NBC News .
The president is said to have replied, "Really? Then what are they?" apparently assuming that a welfare recipient couldn't be white.
In fact, far more white people have benefited from US welfare programs over the years — reflecting their greater share of the population — while Black people and other people of color have been denied them in various ways, multiple historians and researchers tell Business Insider.
The coronavirus pandemic has exposed the underbelly of American inequality in many ways, with people of color disproportionately likely to be laid off, to be on the financial brink , and to die from the virus . That has helped prompt a growing chorus of financiers, business leaders , and regular folks to call for a reimagining of American capitalism and for moves to end racial inequality. Some top economists are calling for a " New New Deal " specifically targeting inequality, a platform to which the Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden seems open.
If the country is to move forward in trying to lift Americans out of unemployment and poverty, policymakers might consider who has benefited most from past welfare policies and how such policies have helped produce today's world.
Business Insider talked to four economic researchers and historians, and analyzed the past 90 years of welfare policy, when considering the question of who the status quo actually benefits.
For you
Sanford Schram , a political-science professor at CUNY Hunter, who wrote "Disciplining the Poor" and "Hard White," puts it bluntly: "I do think the federal government has been complicit in the perpetuation of race-based discrimination that has led to African Americans lagging behind whites. No question about it."
The New Deal brought jobs to Americans, but different kinds of jobs for different races
The US government has spent trillions of dollars trying to prop up its economy during the coronavirus pandemic, but it has stopped short of a " wartime economy "-style mobilization or the kind of massive public-works program that some experts have said is badly needed to stem double-digit unemployment.
But the Black Lives Matter movement — given new urgency after George Floyd's killing by the police in Minneapolis in late May — has exposed a separate problematic legacy of the New Deal, the series of policies enacted by President Franklin D. Roosevelt to get the US out of the Great Depression of the 1930s. It was introduced in an era defined by segregation and explicit racism.
It's true that Roosevelt appointed several Black leaders to prominent leadership positions within his administration, known as the "Black Cabinet," and his policies helped make thousands of jobs newly available to Black Americans, but as Ibram X. Kendi points out in "Stamped from the Beginning," policies enacted at the time reflected a racist culture.
When the New Deal got Americans back to work, white Americans got the first pick at jobs, and when Black Americans did get jobs, they were given lower wages, according to the University of Houston's Digital History Project .
"State and local governments administered almost all federal New Deal programs, and many of these state and local government leaders, especially in the South, were virtually all white ... and racist," Gary Orfield , a professor of education, law, political science, and urban planning at the University of California at Los Angeles, told Business Insider.
For you
State and local governments administered New Deal program benefits — an obvious problem in the South, which was segregated at the time. Bettmann/Getty ImagesAlso, Black people were excluded from key benefits created during this period. The Social Security Act of 1935, for instance, prohibited domestic and agricultural workers (an outsize number of whom were Black or Latino) from receiving benefits.
Black workers were also excluded from progressive labor regulations passed during that time, Paul Moreno , a history professor who is the dean of social sciences at Hillsdale College, told Business Insider.
The National Labor Relations Act of 1935 — commonly known as the Wagner Act for Sen. Robert Wagner, who proposed it — bolstered the strength of worker unions, but many major unions of this era either excluded Black workers or discriminated against them.
"Many unions had explicit clauses in their constitutions that said that only whites could be members," Moreno said. "So you could have a situation where an employer was forced to bargain with an exclusively white union and he'd have to fire all of his Black employees."
Because discrimination was still legal when it came to jobs, Black Americans were routinely denied well-paying positions and were much more likely to be hired for low-wage work, according to Orfield, the professor at UCLA.
"A lot of policies were designed that simply left out Black Americans who were sharecroppers and were doing low-wage work, which was excluded from some of the labor regulations," he said.
For you
A young boy in Greendale, Wisconsin, a greenbelt community constructed by the US Department of Agriculture as part of President Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal. Universal History Archive/Getty ImagesElsewhere in the economy, interpretation of New Deal policies wound up hurting Black Americans. The Federal Housing Administration was created in this era, with the goal of creating affordable housing for as many Americans as possible. But local interpretation of this mission resulted in "redlining," a policy in which mortgage credit was denied in majority-Black neighborhoods.
The FHA continued to encourage racist policies into the postwar era, when the American suburbs were being built. In 1948, the Supreme Court outlawed " restrictive covenants " — a clause that essentially prevented Black Americans from buying property from white owners — yet the FHA still encouraged builders to write them into their agreements well past 1948, according to Orfield.
White tenants protesting African Americans moving into the Sojourner Truth Homes, a federal governmental housing project, in Detroit in February 1942. Corbis via Getty ImagesWhite veterans of World War II were given zero-down-payment, 30-year guaranteed mortgages under the GI Bill.
"With zero cash, you, white veterans, could get into owning a brand-new home," Orfield told Business Insider. "That door was not open for Black and Latinos."
A house someone bought at the time for $12,000 or $15,000 in mortgage payments, he said, might be worth $300,000 decades later.
"That's a gigantic wealth creator and a gigantic middle-class escalator," he said, one Black Americans missed out on and couldn't pass along to their children.
For you
Welfare reform greatly benefited Black Americans — and was almost immediately unpopular for it
One of the largest government programs in the post-New Deal era, President Lyndon B. Johnson's " Great Society " sought to remedy the racial wealth gap. During the 1960s, the median Black family income rose 53%, while Black employment doubled in professional, technical, and clerical occupations, and average Black educational attainment increased by four years, University of Houston history professors write . The proportion of Black people below the poverty line went from 55% in 1960 to just 27% by 1968.
President Lyndon Johnson speaking with students from Public School 192 who were beneficiaries of his Head Start program, in Harlem, New York, in 1968. Afro American Newspapers/Gado/Getty ImagesEven at the height of the Great Society, Black Americans constituted only about 27% of all welfare recipients, according to Sundiata Keita Cha-Jua , an associate history professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Most recipients were white Americans.
"From the Great Society moving forward, one could say that white people, because of their numbers and percentage of the population, have always constituted the largest number of people" on welfare, Cha-Jua told Business Insider, adding that "Black people, Latinx, American Indians, because of their oppressed condition, have constituted a much greater percentage than their percent of the population."
But as the anti-discriminatory practices from Johnson's presidency were enforced and Black Americans were allowed to participate in new benefit programs, there was a dramatic shift in public perception about government subsidies — to the negative.
"Public assistance was not as demonized until African Americans began to exercise their right to use it, ironically," Schram said. "And that's when welfare started to be seen as this inferior program for nonwhite people who didn't play by the white middle-class rules of work and family."
This shift was propelled forward by President Ronald Reagan, whose campaign speeches about the now-debunked " welfare queen " stoked racist fear among white Americans.
President Ronald Reagan ushered in a new era of welfare reform. REUTERS/Joe Marquette"He really tightened the eligibility requirements," Schram said. "He made it more difficult for you to get welfare even after you started to work."
For example, Reagan cut spending to the Aid to Families with Dependent Children program, which provided cash assistance to low-income children whose father or mother was absent from the home, incapacitated, deceased, or unemployed. This forced struggling mothers and families further into poverty, research funded by The Ford Foundation found .
The social-welfare-policy researcher Sandra Edmonds Crewe , who is the dean of Howard University's School of Social Work, described such policies by conservative policymakers as a direct response to Black participation in the system.
"There is always a backlash that comes after progression — always," Crewe told Business Insider, likening the backlash against welfare expansion to the resurgence of white nationalism in response to Barack Obama's presidency.
Instead of receiving an opportunity to be lifted out of poverty, many Black Americans remained disenfranchised.
Reagan's legacy, however, was solidified by a Democratic president, Bill Clinton, who promised to "change welfare as we have come to know it." By replacing the Aid to Families with Dependent Children program with a Temporary Assistance for Needy Families block grant, he dramatically reduced the size of welfare programs. "TANF really did change welfare as we knew it," Schram said.
President Bill Clinton promised to change welfare "as we have come to know it" — and he did. Ralph Alswang/Getty ImagesBefore Clinton, about 75% of people who were eligible for welfare were receiving it. But by 2000, four years after Clinton's program was enacted, only about 25% were, Schram's research found.
In other words, at a time when Black Americans were given significantly more access to public assistance, measures were enacted to make assistance harder to access.
"When we do get included in the welfare state, in the Great Society programs, we are stigmatized for it," Cha-Jua, who is Black, said.
How this legacy is playing out today
The racial wealth gap in the US not only persists — it's growing . For every $100 in wealth held by a white family today, a Black family has just $10, per research from the Federal Reserve's 2017 "Survey of Consumer Finances."
A recent analysis of homeownership by the Fed noted that homeownership by race seemed similar to the wealth distribution by race .
The difference in homeownership can also be seen at the geographic level, per research from the Urban Institute .
Today, white people still make up a plurality of those on welfare programs such as TANF or the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program. A Department of Agriculture report from November estimated that 35.7% of SNAP recipients in the 2018 fiscal year were white , 25.1% were Black, 16.7% were Hispanic, 3% were Asian, and 1.5% were Native American (0.8% were listed as multiple races, while 17.4% were listed as "race unknown").
Enrollment by race for Medicaid and the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children show similar enrollment as those in SNAP.
Black people make up just 13.4% of the US population and are therefore overrepresented in welfare programs. When asked why this was the case, Crewe of Howard University had a simple answer: "systemic inequality."
Without more intervention, inequality will continue to reproduce itself, Crewe said. Orfield of UCLA agreed.
This is especially true today, as Congress decides whether to give Americans cash assistance after the temporary $600 increase weekly unemployment benefits expired July 31.
Black and brown workers are more likely to report being in financial hardship right now.
A survey by the organization Lean In with Survey Monkey in early April people found that Black women were twice as likely as white men to say they were laid off or furloughed during the pandemic. New analysis by the global advisory firm Stout Risius Ross found that only 26% of African American tenants said they felt highly confident they could pay their mortgage payments on time right now, compared with almost half of white Americans, CNBC reports.
"My view of this," Orfield said, "is if you're in a society that's completely stratified by race and ethnicity, basically what you've got is a system that guarantees inequality unless you specifically decide to change it."
For you
Again, one could get the impression that there are no 'poor Whites' or unemployed Whites (some with high-end degrees), or white-collar 'thugs' and criminals. Yet, all of those narratives are beyond the scope of this discussion (I keep telling you that, because it would require an expansion were we to dwell deeply and widely into relevant materials.)
'They' know it. If not, it's not our fault because we can read what they dare not allow themselves to 'ingest.'
John, I want to 'pour' over your links slowly when I have some time (don't right now). Thank you for the information and good looking out! (Smile.)
Which Justice said that? I'll bet it's not from the last 50 plus years of the welfare era.
it was not just some conservative money involved! It was state, federal, and local funds-which comes from the whole of society.
Good thing I never claimed it was. Again, the idea that the US, state and local governments haven't spent billions in trying to help black people in the last 50 years is preposterous. If you want to claim all the racist acts from generations go matter, than you have to stop pretending that nothing has been done in the last 50 years to remedy them.
That's impossible. According to newstalkers it's clear that only white republicans died from Covid and that those deaths should be celebrated because they cost Republicans vote.
That little sentence, buried at the end, undercuts the entire premise of the article.
Absolutely. Doubled down on it.
She falls under the "comedians and actors" tag.
I'm not sure how you don't understand what a shining example of racism this is. Do you not see that there can only be a very limited number of entertainers and athletes who get wealthy? Do you not understand that Kevin Hart is rich because he's unusual? How is this path possibly scalable? It's not.
Do you not understand that a Div I university can only award 12 basketball scholarships...but an unlimited number of academic ones? Who do you think is getting those? Do you imagine that black high school students are hearing about how their grades can pay for college, or do you realize that all the attention is on the athletes? At least until they get hurt and they're of no use anymore.
Do you realize that of the black male athletes that do manage to get scholarships, nearly HALF don't graduate? Do you know how they're steered into the easiest classes available, often without regard to degree requirements, because their eligibility to play is more important than their education?
That's is happening today. 2021. It didn't stop in 1968.
Are they? The statistics say otherwise. You've made extensive arguments that they're not able to provide prosperity for themselves because of institutional and individual racism. So which is it?
Your anger level is your choice. That doesn't change the fact that a huge amount of racism that goes on in this country is right under your nose, yet you don't see it, and apparently don't want to know.
There are hundreds of millions of them. Most have better opportunities than black people, and won't take them.
How is that pertinent to this conversation?
Generally speaking , "welfare" eligibility is entirely based on income. If more blacks per capita receive "welfare" it is because more blacks per capita are poor.
Sean, is it your position that the only thing that has left us with a too large black poverty rate is the failure of blacks to pull themselves up by their bootstraps ?
How many black kids have a direct path into a trades union job when they turn 18 or 19. I have multiple members in my white extended family who wanted to join a trades union when they finished high school, and because of "connections" through the family or through the neighborhood they were able to do so.
How many black teenagers have that pathway? My guess would be damn few.
Your theory is "if only black people wouldnt be so black anymore they would get somewhere".
I agree John and that hasn't changed since the programs started.. The claim is that the US is "systematically racist" yet it's designed massive governmental programs and set asides that disproportionally benefit black people, the group that the government is supposedly oppressing. And welfare is just one such example. Do you think an actual systematically racist government would design programs to disproportionally benefit the oppressed race?
our position that the only thing that has left us with a too large black poverty rate is the failure of blacks to pull themselves up by their bootstraps
If, as CRT tells us, white people designed our government to benefit themselves and oppress other races, how come Asians and Jews make more money per capita than any other racial groups? The US has spent 50 plus years and billions of dollars to help black people and remove that excess poverty rate.
ow many black teenagers have that pathway? My guess would be damn few.
But that's a vanishingly small sector of our economy and not how other marginalized and discriminated groups succeeded. Blacks have access to affirmative actions programs in school and in the white collar workplace, not to mention minority set asides in contracting. Chicago and cities like it has made sure black owned businesses get a large chunk of their famously profitable city contracts even if they aren't the low bidder. What is that if not a handout to generate wealth?
Not to mention civil service jobs like police. It's a very easy job to get and is a ticket to the middle class with a nice pension in most big cities.
theory is "if only black people wouldnt be so black anymore they would get somewhere".
And your theory is black people are incapable of doing anything on their own and can only succeed if paternalistic white men give them things.
It was Chief Justice Taney of the Supreme Court 1857 (Dred Scott Decision). Of course, he would come off sounding like a complete fool, tone-deaf and blind, were he to say it today. However, he wrote it down and published it denoting how foundationally conservatives viewed Africans (Blacks) -enslaved or free- as not privy to the rights and privileges of a White man in our country.
Some conservatives have not been on the "solutions" team of history. Such people, as today, withhold themselves from remedies for minorities, or if they do participate in or out of legislation, they 'bolt' on it in the next 'cycle. Sean, don't give yourselves any or much credit for helping made minorities whole!
And I don't see you complaining about all the money and wealth some conservatives have amassed supplied by this country's government from its minorities. Or, simply lying on tax returns. Greedy for gain.
Meaning: Not a rapper or athlete, eh? Next, produce a comedian segment starring Oprah!
Yes, I am confident that Oprah can act, but it's nice work if you can get it and she need not apologize for doing so. This "discussion" comes across petty and stupid. Actually, discounting how a large population make wealth. Unbelievable, Jack_Tx. Unreal.
I will defer to "coach" experience since that is your area of expertise. Good for you. Maybe sports gave you the life you hoped? I wish you well. Now then, is it your contention that only black athletes achieve success in our community? Or, are you aware that we are steadily achieving success despite the meddlesome obstruction of some conservatives in our paths to progress?
One thing that is exceedingly clear is some conservatives are standing in the way; get out of the way! More striving with nature's problems and less striving with some conservatives non-stop manufactured obstacles would be a big step forward in itself! Black America succeeds in-spite of real-time hindrances and manufactured set-backs.
How do you think, Jack_Tx. You are the one making comparisons to people-groups - struggling and pampered alike!
Moreover, with all the favor, indulgences, education, and achievements of high achievers one would think there would not exist any thieves, cheaters, and white-collar criminals amongst their ranks: Why do you think harmful attitudes exist among 'successful people,' Jack_Tx?
Do you really think Black Americans are not smart enough to know who supports programs designed and in practice (not theory) are working (without being diluted, refocus, or terminated too soon)? We're pretty astute at times, Sean.
Incidentally, I am only half-heartedly engaging this section of the thread, because it really is beyond the scope of the article. I can't help thinking 'the plug' will be pulled out without notice.
Some conservatives have "helped" handicapped programs, just like they are HANDICAPPING unfettered voting with the stroke of pens (upcoming) in state capitals. The federal government 'giveth' to the people and (red) states "f-k" it up with devastatingly watered down and deliberate impotent executions. We know this, Sean.
It happens all the time. Again, people of color are voting their butts off and all it takes is one White man and his confederates to institute policies to "F" it up. Some conservatives tried to kill the ACA that helps people of this country, but only succeeded in diluting it, fortunately. But the intent to 'kill' was real.
Let's get real. Some conservatives do not see minorities as a "good fit" for "their" country. They are not working for the benefit of the whole population. They just are not.
If they're so exceedingly clear, you should have no difficulty outlining several examples. Do regale us.
I have never said any such thing . You and Jack Tx in particular like to try and explain what other people mean.
A subset of inner city, black, culture is 'oppositional' to the mainstream culture. This is the group that resists assimilation.
Of all the ethnic groups that were that were out of the mainstream in the late 19th and early 20th century immigration fueled American society (Jews, Irish, Italian, Slav, etc) only African Americans have kept a subset of their group that never assimilated. (You could add Native Americans as unassimilated although there are different circumstances with NA related to tribal sovereignty) Why?
There is a hundreds of years long history of African Americans being rejected and abused by the "mainstream" society of America. Does it really surprise anyone that there remains an oppositional element in black culture?
To this minute there are white supremacists who insist America is and should continue to be a white country. I believe that if this was all gone we would see a change of attitudes among oppositional blacks within a generation.
See Congress. What do you think is a good 'offer,' Texan? And yes, I fully expect you to waste time sputtering.
Spend more time familiarizing yourself with past history and current events. I have no interest in time-consuming reprobate minds.
Rhetorical answer. No need to answer:
Some conservatives lie on their tax returns in order to not pay taxes that will aid the 'libs.' And they call that 'smart.'
Trump Brags About Not Paying Taxes: "That Makes Me Smart"
You literally did that to me in the post I replied to.
Why?
I think you answered it here. "A subset of inner city, black, culture is 'oppositional' to the mainstream culture" They've adopted a culture that makes financial success almost impossible and teaching kids from the get go that the system is rigged against them, they are victims who can't succeed in America will only makes things a thousands times worse. Teaching kids they are victims from birth and that they can't succeed because of their skin color is about the worst form of abuse possible.
oes it really surprise anyone that there remains an oppositional element in black culture?
The results are clear. It's a poisonous culture and enabling it is a grave disservice.
his minute there are white supremacists who insist America is and should continue to be a white country
America isn't a white country, those who claim it are on the fringes and the actual people who run this country's government, the economy and culture have by and large adopted extremist views in the other direction and racial relations have gotten worse.
IMPASSE.
Do your own research. Moreover, I view this willful ignorance as a ploy. If you have no understanding of the political environment that we are operating in, then maybe you should leave and return when caught up. I am not wasting myself supplying information to reprobates.Obfuscate that!
With that, I am moving on.
So there aren't any. OK.
Asking you to back up your outlandish assertions with an example or a fact or some piece of data is definitely a ploy to either engage in an intelligent discussion or expose a wild and unfounded accusation. Looks like it's the latter.
You don't need my help to obfuscate anything. You're quite expert at it.
I doubt it, but if you say so, OK.
Well Jack, "modern day redlining" is being discussed by AG Merrick Garland on television right now. There are several cases of red-lining being worked presently, and several settlements of Black and Hispanic red-lining. AG Merrick Garland says more cases are forthcoming.
Jack_Tx. . . you were saying??
(C-Span link to video on AG Garland deals with modern red-lining: )
Do you own research. Oh and see 'current events' @5.2.74 - Jack_Tx.
Yes. We need to emphasize that "more blacks per capita are poor" has not changed. Ever. Civil Rights Act, Fair Housing Act, Affirmative Action....none of it has moved the needle.
Your guess would also be damn accurate.
My question to left-leaning folks would be: At what point will you be willing to hold the American educational system...including classroom teachers.... accountable? At what point are you willing to force them to change behaviors?
I was saying "give us an example".
Turns out it wasn't so difficult, was it? Maybe you could just lead with that next time.
I do hope we're getting ready to shift this conversation from shit that happened 50 years ago that we can't do anything about to shit that's happening today that we CAN do something about.
Right on the money! And my ethnic background is far too convoluted to go into here. Suffice it to say that my genealogist that once studied my family tree looked me in the face and said, "Ed, the only way I can truly describe your ethnic background in your family tree is with the word mutt!" I cracked up then and laugh about it to this day.
You can hope anything your heart desires. We will discuss history and life in hopes to make the future better. That you 'want' to shunt some "shit" off to the recesses is your problem: not histories, not Blacks, minorities, or "Others.'
History not recognized is history doomed to be repeated! You don't get to select the relevant facts to suit your 'fancy,' because facts are facts. Comfortable or uncomfortable, you dig?
I am going to let you have 'all of that' because it is worthless to me and my time today! Bye.
John, you regularly keep talking about "white guilt". The one thing you or anyone else here has not stated is what constitutes being "white"? Is it anyone who is 1/4 caucasian, 1/2, 3/4, or what? If you decide to answer this, think very carefully before doing so.
"How about if someone "identifies" as black?"
You mean like Democrat Rachel Dolezal? Former NAACP chapter president in Spokane, WA.
I'm talking about people who see themselves as white, regardless of actual ancestry.
It's all in the Trump doctrine, under: "Make me." At the same time these some conservatives want to shout: "It ain't me!"
It's amazing how aggressive progressive ignorance is about this law.
[Deleted]
Of course.
This woman doesnt want her grandchildren or great-grandchildren to see what she was up to back in the day
Funny. I was taught about that when I was in school a long time ago. There are a lot of things not taught now that were taught when I was young. Cursive writing ring a bell?
As was I but I don't remember being prohibited from discussing Jim Crow laws or Brown v. Board of Education or the motivation of the white woman in that photo or the actions of the state that caused the need for the Little Rock Nine to be escorted by the National Guard.
I judge it to be impossible to discuss those events without recognizing and voicing their racial motivation and their effects.
'To Kill a Mockingbird' is always ranked at the top of polls for 'Great American Reads' but it is being removed from the curriculum all over the country because of this bullshit.
And it can be put back in the curriculum after these "obstructionists" in the 21st century are themselves moved out of positions of power. That is the task ahead. Talk to proper republicans and conservatives and leave some conservatives 'rocks' to float off into the sunset horizons.
CRT and cursive writing....not really the same thing, Jim.
I said, in case you missed it, I was taught about that stuff above when I was in school. Point was, which I guess you did miss it, that a lot of things aren't taught in school any more as they are evidently deemed unimportant.
that's quite a condundrum for Democrats ins't it.
The fact that after months of enlightenment, all too many still post bullshit, like your comment, that has NOTHING to do with the law in question..
Well gee Sean, since my comment was in direct reply to a comment by Jim.
I can't help but wonder why you didn't whine to HIM that HIS comment had NOTHING to do with the law.
Oh wait, I get it. Trolling...
Lol.. You claimed something prevents you from discussing Jim Crow laws. If it not's the law, [deleted]
My bad to assume you were talking about the law, in a post about the law, in a thread about the law. [deleted]
[deleted]
This is the comment I posted:
YOU actually block quoted the full comment Sean so it's isn't credible for you to claim that you didn't READ it.
Yet here you are, insisting that I said JUST THE OPPOSITE.
Posting lies about what I said diminishes your credibility.
But hey Sean, you be you.
Jim's comment was about his educational experience as was my reply. It had NOTHING to do with the content of the law Sean. AGAIN, Jim's comment set the predicate for mine. THAT'S how this shit works.
No Sean, it's clear from your comment that you aren't 'assuming' but instead you are intentionally FABRICATING.
I KNOW that when a member READS another member's comment for comprehension that there is a far less likelihood of making fallacious allegations about it's content.
YES!!! That's it exactly! It keeps students from discussing race/gender/religion and getting their opinions/feelings out in the open. The only way we can defeat "isms" is by discussing it rationally and openly
Of course it doesn't. Read the law.
I have.
I particularly like the part about revoking the licenses of teachers that teach something 'unconsciously'. /s
[deleted]
[deleted]
Cite?
Did you miss the sarcasm tag Jack?
BTW, the law is cited in full in the comments in this seed.
@12.
Sorta, yeah.
I wasn't sure which part you were being sarcastic about, (there is a lot of worthy material) and there has been a shitload of misrepresentation about what's actually in this law throughout the entire seed, so I wasn't sure where you were going with that.
I think I've got it now.
The law is bullshit. The way the right goes on and on about some theory, I am beginning to think they just use it as a catch all to everything they don't like.
So in your words, a law designed to get parents out of school board meetings.
And that is somehow better?
The irony is that the law mandates that the school board 'promulgate rules to
implement the provisions'.
Opps.
After school groups can be formed for any CRT discussions with students.
I doubt if red state school boards or pta groups can be trusted to handle this issue appropriately. The state of Texas created a board or commission to whitewash the racist history of that state through something called the 1836 commission begun to promote the "values" of the founders of Texas.
The founders of Texas were mainly racists and slaveowners, and the constitution of the Republic of Texas banned free blacks and Indians from living in that "nation".
I wouldnt trust there will be honesty about race from their schools.
[deleted]
i guess you are not capable of staying on topic
[deleted]
You are the one that brought up PTA and school boards. I simply proved that blue states school boards are just as moronic when it comes to policies.
removed for context
I have a feeling that if MLK had to choose between critical race theory and you he would choose critical race theory every time.
Their original constitution says it all. Texas was founded by a bunch of rich racist pigs. If Americans hadn't come to their aid (see Pres. Polk and the Mexican-American War) they would still be part of Mexico.
It has not only not moved on but it did a 180 and is heading for 1836 at warp speed
XX, was the Republic Of Texas a racist nation?
Now you're asking for miracles.
The GI Bill after ww2 was not 150 years ago. These were our parents and grandparents.
The next time you actually construct an argument to support one of your "points" will be the first time. I'm not sure NT needs so much filler.
We're being told over and over again that CRT isn't being taught. If that's the case then why go to court over a ban on something that isn't being taught?
Because the left continuously has to manufacture rage over something. Like not being able to teach CRT to children.
It could be that SOME of us feel that level of censorship is wrong. To intentionally lie and deceive our children is in my view a crime. When we cover up our past we present an unrealistic view of our country to our children. I would rather have my children proud of themselves and their country while acknowledging that it is not perfect and does indeed have some warts. I raised my children to believe in the Constitution with all the freedoms AND responsibilities that go with it. WE understand that America is not perfect and never has been.
"We the people in order to form a more perfect union...." This implies that we are not a perfect nation but work towards improving our nation for "ourselves and our posterity..." We need to be able to see ourselves as we are not some imaginary image from a past that never was.
WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHEN AMERICA WAS GREAT? What do you mean by make America great again? What are you want tin to go back to? Jim Crow, slavery, indentured servitude which is it?
Have you read the law?
why yes I have.
Have you? And do you understand that what I wrote is exactly what the law is trying to suppress.
I have.
To what clause or clauses do you object, specifically?
I understand that you think that, but I don't think that's what the law says.
ENROLLED HOUSE
BILL NO. 1775 By: West (Kevin) , Stearman,
Stark, Caldwell (Chad),
Crosswhite Hader, Williams,
Olsen, West (Rick), Gann,
Bashore, Kendrix, Smith,
Grego, Pfeiffer, Martinez,
Roe, Sneed, Marti,
Steagall, Russ and Conley
of the House
and
Bullard, Hamilton, Jett
Standridge, Dahm, Weaver,
Bergstrom, Merrick,
Pederson, Rogers, Burns and
Stephens of the Senate
An Act relating to education; prohibiting certain
students within certain institutions from being
required to engage in certain tr aining or counseling;
allowing for voluntary counseling; prohibiting
orientation or requirement that presents any form of
certain stereotyping or bias; directing promulgation
of rules pursuant to certain act and subject to
certain approval; prohibiting cer tain application;
prohibiting employees of certain schools from
requiring certain concepts to be part of a course;
specifying concepts; directing promulgation of rules
pursuant to certain act and subject to certain
approval; providing for codification; pro viding an
effective date; and declaring an emergency.
SUBJECT: Education
BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA: ENR. H. B. NO. 1775 Page 2
SECTION 1 . NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified
in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 24 - 157 of Title 70, unless there
is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:
A. 1. No enrolled student of an institution of higher
education within The Oklahoma State System of Higher Education shall
be required to engage in any form of mandatory gender or sexual
diversity training or counseling; provided, voluntary counseling
shall not be prohibited. Any orientation or requirement that
presents any form of race or sex stereotyping or a bias on the basis
of race or sex shall be prohibited.
2. P ursuant to the provisions of the Administrative Procedures
Act, the Oklahoma State Regents for Higher Education shall
promulgate rules, subject to approval by the Legislature, to
implement the provisions of this subsection.
B. The provisions of this subs ection shall not prohibit the
teaching of concepts that align to the Oklahoma Academic Standards.
1. No teacher, administrator or other employee of a school
district, charter school or virtual charter school shall require or
make part of a course the fol lowing concepts:
a. one race or sex is inherently superior to another race
or sex,
b. an individual, by virtue of his or her race or sex, is
inherently racist, sexist or oppressive, whether
consciously or unconsciously,
c. an individual should be discri minated against or
receive adverse treatment solely or partly because of
his or her race or sex,
d. members of one race or sex cannot and should not
attempt to treat others without respect to race or
sex,
e. an individual’s moral character is necessarily
determined by his or her race or sex,
f. an individual, by virtue of his or her race or sex,
bears responsibility for actions committed in the past
by other members of the same race or sex,
or any other form of psychological distress on account
of his or her race or sex, or
h. meritocracy or traits such as a hard work ethic are
racist or sexist or were created by members of a
particular race to oppress members of another race.
2. The State Board of Education shall promulgate rules, subject
to approval by the Legislature, to implement the provisions of this
subsection.
SECTION 2 . This act shall become effective July 1, 2021.
SECTION 3 . It being immediately neces sary for the preservation
of the public peace, health or safety, an emergency is hereby
declared to exist, by reason whereof this act shall take effect and
be in full force from and after its passage and approval.
Ain't that rich. Now some conservatives want to be a model of good race-relations! Of course, they could not 'counsel' that old 'snake' in Kentucky, Mitch McConnell to support better 'race-relations' vis-a-vis voting rights in congress! That would have been too much like speaking up for right and wholesome!
I did not. And so what? The impression I get is old Mitch literally plans to have them bring his polished skeleton out from the capitol!
"Not falling for a banana in your tail-pipe, eh?" Perhaps? Perhaps? Perrrrhapppss, Kentucky is home of betta race-relations too? Mitch is 'pale-shelter' and 'frigid-hands.'
He'll have to move to Kentucky FIRST Xx.
IMPASSE.
Oh so by 'that state' you meant Kentucky rather than Arkansas, which is the topic of the seed.
Mitch stepping down would be a reason for celebration, no matter who replaces him.
Which part do you object to?
Do you want to teach kids that that character is determined by their race? That kids are guilty for the crimes of their ancestors? That a kids should feel guilt because of their race? Or do you think it's okay for teachers to advocate that members of certain races should be discriminated against? What, specifically, causes you such outrage?
I don't think anyone disagrees with that goal. But what in this law prevents that from happening?
Do teachers need to teach that students' race determine their character? Or teach kids that they should feel guilty because of their race? Is that necessary to teach history?
I agree with you, with the caveat that the past is the past and needs to remain such.
No trying to transfer the crimes of those in the past to those in the present that had nothing to do with them. No one is inherently racist, period.
I swear the government should issue real race cards denoting the full lineage and DNA testing of the holder. Mine would need to be the size of a tablet since I am such an American mutt. I would also like mine to be razor sharp around all the edges so that every time the race card is played it will cut the offenders hands to shreds.
Off-base questions. My point is where was all this 'support' for other races "a thousand years" ago. Now, "suddenly" Oklahoma is interested in making the case, for equality and equity? How come? And dare I say, demanding others join them either to or against their interests.
Well, Sean, we will do what is in our best interests similarly to some conservatives. We will evaluate the 'situation' and delve into what is behind the push for equality when it sprang up unsolicited.
I am not outraged as you state: I am observant.
Asking what actual provision of the law that is the subject of this seed you object to is off base?
So I'll put you down as a supporter of the law than.
There's a lot of hysteria over this law, yet no one can point to an actual provision that causes it.
Let me call it what it is. Some conservatives are basically saying they can't defend their ancestors, so they are attempting to legislate them out of the historical record. That way, once forgotten (or swept away), they think, mind you think, they can get on with the business of resetting a new round of conservative policies not beholden to how generational wealth was accomplished for many historical White families and all that it entails (at the expense of minorities).
All while creating a new beginning of the same old attitudes that cause this country's shameful past.
That's 100% false. You are just making things up and projecting them onto the law regardless of reality at this point.
But by all means, read the text of the law and point to the actual provision that "legislates" conservatives' ancestors out of the record.
Were any of us alive a thousand years ago? Unless you believe in reincarnation, we had no control over what was done then.
Why not now? Has to start somewhere doesn't it?
They learned well from watching the Democrats and left. It is either get on board or get run over. Find it rather humorous that the racist card is now being played against the left. Can't find anything to object to in the bill that calls for complete equality; but still bitching over it, and taking it to court no less.
The fact that after months of enlightenment, all too many still post bullshit, like your comment, that has NOTHING to do with CRT.
Ah, yes. Now we are that part where you just throw words together, ignore context, reality and the English language and make unsupported declarations to attack strawmen.
Whatever floats your boat. Still, going to resolve all matters and issues accordingly, nevertheless. And if that means Oklahoma's "preemptive" law needs repealing or tossed out so be it. Oklahoma will have its true story told voluntarily or through force-feeding! Get ready, Oklahomans!
I don't think you'd find much disagreement on this.
This part is gonna be the problem.
Whether it's CRT or the 1619 Project or whatever the nonsense du jour happens to be currently, the long-term goal of these guilty white liberals and a number of black activists is reparations. They want to pretend that's not what they're talking about, all the while they slowly try to weasel their way through a complicated series of rationalizations like some teenage boy trying to make a case for why his curfew should be 4 am. They're transparent as hell, and telling them that also makes them angry.
But that shit just isn't going to fly. No matter how emotional these people are or how angry it makes them, most of us are just not ever going to accept responsibility for shit that happened decades or centuries before we were born.
@12.
Stop already. You're insulting our intelligence.
I'm doing my best to get you to make a rational argument about this law. I see I've failed.
IMPASSE.
Ronin, what a snooze, do I really have to indicate that "a thousand years ago" is a figure of speech? Really, you commented against that phrase without getting its usage from the context?
I could care less what you find "humourous" Ronin2. Pay for what was done in the past and not attempt to rhetorically blow smoke up. . . us.
The law per se is not problematic, unless practical considerations can be found to exist that causes problems. My concern is this: Why NOW is Oklahoma keen to resolve bias and prejudice (remains to be judged if they will be successful) by just 'moving on.' And its laughable, that some conservatives think they can just summarily declare "the matter is closed."
They can not pile all the wealth of that state and this nation on conservative or white majority sides of the 'ledger' and then declare we want equality for all! It does not work that way, Sean.
A tad dramatic (or is it)? But worthy of honest reflection.
Actually, it looks like the part where your comments turn into utter argle-bargle that merely throw insults together while pretending to make a point.
Please post a link that supports you claim that CRT's goal of reparations. I'll wait...
I never said it was. Read carefully.
[deleted]
I DID read your comment carefully Jack and you did make that claim. Perhaps you should re-read your comment carefully.
Here, I'll clarify for you:
Of course I AM presuming that the ' guilty white liberals and a number of black activists' you cite are proponents of CRT 'or whatever' but it sure as fuck isn't a stretch.
That's a load of bullshit allegations Jack.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt about your demand for a link re my sarcastic comment. I see that it was undeserving. You reverted all too quickly to form.
Now we get down to it you want payment. Well hell, count me in! Will need that full race card I was mentioning earlier. I have Native American blood, Japanese blood, African American blood (might be just African as depending on when one of my ancestors decided to extend the family lineage), and Latino (meaning Mexican) blood in me. All that encased in a blue eyed, blond haired, European shell that has German, Dutch, English, and French in it. Several parts of my lineage have been hurt by racism and abuse; so where is the damn money at?
Can I also claim abuse against my German side? In Minnesota I was bullied by Nords- you would think that all blonde haired blue eyed people of European decent would be one big happy family; but no. Did you know that there is such a thing as a German nose? I got to learn to spot the differences really well. Seems the Germanic tribes were a bunch of assholes (Germany as country- even bigger assholes) in the past; not that I had anything to do with either. Being bullied because of your race is grounds for reparation right? Then when my father stupidly moved us to Detroit for several months I was bullied by African Americans for the audacity of being white and living in their neighborhood; like I had any damn choice! Racism is racism after all. A hate crime is a hate crime.
Of course with that race card some very nasty surprises are going to come out for a lot of people. Some of those White Supremacists are going to find out they aren't nearly as white as they like to think they are. Of course some reparation money should sooth their newfound pain (might be both emotional and physical if their brethren hold to their purist beliefs). Of course the same will apply to the other side. Wonder how many "pure bloods" there really are in the US?
So let me know when I will be getting paid!
Be careful with that "us" comment. Never know who you who you are conversing with.
Yeah, that just happened everybody. State of the discussion.
What the ???? Do you really think to diminish this 'issue' with stupid anecdotes? This is why I gaff off some comment! Complete and utter nonsense. Nobody gives a rat's ass about your 'mix' - classifications don't pour over minuscule proportionalities and unless you want to end up 'mental'—stay focus up 'here'!
I should not have to address this kind of patty. (Some things should not have to be said or written down to be considered and possibly stricken out by mods!)
As to the "us" in this case it was a reference to NT liberals. Nobody is interested in your 'breeding' per se.
I didn't diminish anything. This is your statement "Pay for what was done in the past".
Why do you deserve payment over me? Better still why should anyone have to pay for anything that was done when they weren't even born yet!
Two problems there. NT liberals still haven't stated what is wrong with the law. So how about pointing out the direct sections of the law you are against; instead of the general leftist BS we always get?
As for my "breeding"- that sounds very racist to me. My lineage may not be the greatest; but I am still proud of it- warts and all.
Actually, I did, yesterday.
Care to refute my critique?
Now you've stooped to intentionally misquoting people. Niiiice. It would be sad if it weren't predictable.
My actual statement:
These people will use whatever batshit rationalization they can to try to weasel their way into either assuaging their guilt or enriching themselves using other people's money. It doesn't matter if CRT or anything else calls for reparations or not, they're going to use it to claim their position is justified.
Which you've just proven true. Again.
Whatever. Talk to you later when and if it may matter. Yeah, do love yourself, best believe I love myself too!
Yes, the country should pay- and it that involves you - so be it. I am done with this argument for argument sake. I am not amused with being dazzled by bull-patty overlong exchanges. We should come here to encourage or at least 'grow' each other through communication. If you simply want to insult and be abrasive (for its own sake), I am not interested.
As to your heritage, what matters is how you are classified and that weighs heavily on appearances, don't you know. Clearly, I am considered a Black American from my outward features alone! I don't need a lecture on human classifications today, Ronin2.
Oh, and reparations, if they come about won't have a damn thing to do with 'bullying' - it would be more along the lines of resolving terrorism in America by the White Majority against People of Color for past transgressions.
I didn't misquote you Jack. I diagramed your sentence.
Great. Then prove that 'guilty white liberals and a number of black activists' are using CRT or the 1619 project to justify reparations.
Oh and it would be great if you show HOW they are using it if it doesn't call for reparations.
You see what you want Jack.
Carry on.
So it's "other people money" and getting to a point: it's some conservatives' money, you really mean to say. Amazing how 'middle of the road' you don't write, for a moderate. Even liberatarian-sounding.
Riiiight. Because sentence diagrams normally change the fundamental information of the sentence. *eyeroll*
So basically you misread the first post, tried to rewrite it in the second hoping you could get away with it and nobody would notice, and now you're even more pathetically trying to pretend your lie wasn't really a lie. Apparently you think sticking with this series of lies is less embarrassing than just admitting you misread the first post. Good luck with that.
Why? So you can intentionally misquote that, too?
John and CB have demonstrated what you claim you're looking for at least a dozen times on this very seed. Misrepresent their shit for a while.
Out of curiosity, do you ever intend to add an original thought to a seed?
Well it sure as hell isn't going to be theirs. White liberals in general have a long, well-documented history of demanding that other people pay for things they want.
The point here being that they never seem to care enough about any of these issues to change their lives in any substantive way. It's other people who should change.
I tend to say what I mean. You tend to assume I don't, which is mildly puzzing. But you have yet to infer anything accurately.....
... and you have missed again.
A libertarian would make the case that government should dramatically reduce its role in every area of American life, and racial equality programs would be very high up on the list of things that need to go.
I have already stated several times that I believe government action should be taken to improve economic opportunities (specifically the earning power) for black Americans. We need to do things like overhauling our public education system, combined with aggressive adult vocational training, financial instruction, business management education, and much more.
I , and a lot of other people, dont want to pay a trillion dollars a year to make defense contractors rich. Where do we go to get that stopped?
Let me know if you find out, I'll go with you.
Especially when most of that spending is directed toward 20th-century thinking.
Well, you know what Jack_Tx we all have our (private) 'wish-lists.'
HA!
So what specifically does the left have against this law? Please point it out; because from what I am reading it sounds as antidiscrimination as it can get. Unless the left is now for discrimination?
I have a good idea; but want to see someone from the left point them out for sure and explain why.
That might be my favorite question asked on this site.
See @12.2. 4.
Looks like a good law
By any yardstick it's a gag order with legal consequences. Not a good law.
Secondarily, I am thinking similarly. It is meant to confuse, "chill," and stymie teachers who want to offer some version or "degree" of a specific subject matter to students.
Read a book, several books even. I know. I know. You want a list. Well, start at the National Archives. If you wait for me to 'school' you: Heaven will arrive front and center any day now.
Not interested.
Critical Race theory is very true, I know this because George Washington chose wooden teeth as opposed to getting his grill pimped out with gold.
It's really no laughing matter, Benjamin Franklin had tons of hemp in his basement and was scared the Black man would be able to move more hemp than he could so he racist.
Washington's teeth were HUMAN teeth.
Care to guess WHOSE?
Nope. Not always and not when President.
The ivory ones stained easily and thus the confusion with wood. But I know where you think you were going. And this explains it............
Key word, perhaps. Gotta throw in that slave card. But it wasn't like he stole them. per the above "purchased from".
Yep.
Strawman fallacy.
Actually Jim, there is DOCUMENTATION in Washington's papers that he 'paid for' the teeth from 'negroes'. Washington made a note of it on his calendar, it reads: By Cash pd Negroes for 9 Teeth on Acct of Dr Lemoin.
Is it your posit that the 'negroes' were not slaves Jim?
So, they took teeth out of his slaves' mouths. Do you think they had any choice?
I dare you to say it to us Jews here in the US. You know Jews didn't have a choice when the Nazis rounded us up and pulled our gold teeth in the 1930's and 1940's. The Nazis pulled out gold teeth out of every Jew (and non-Jew) that they saw - ALIVE - no anestisia.
So, you saying we should not be complaining, because the Nazis overpowered us, or what? My fam didn't have a choice, they perished in Buchenwald. AFTER their gold teeth were pulled out, and they were starved to death, basically. Then they were burned in the ovens because they couldn't contribute as slaves. They were just skeletons.
So, you saying the Jews in the Holocaust should've just taken it because "they didn't have a choice"?
Yes, they didn't have a choice. All 6 mln of them.
Please, tell me again. How an American in 2021 can say things like this
SMFHO
Irony??
Why so angry this morning?
Get real. Although, I know that's asking for too much.
Not anywhere on here. What you wrote was a joke and received the response it deserved.
Apparently, you need further education regarding the disparity of power between slaveholders and their slaves.
Maybe you hold with the nonsense theory about "happy" slaves. That's very popular among Confederate flag-waving Republicans these days.
I'm increasingly less inclined to say the same about you.
It's really weird to see colleges segregating and schools wanting to teach racist crap. Somehow this is going to help minorities? We live in a complete clown world right now.
Why is the southern border being flooded with migrants? Could it be that as awful as we are we are better than everywhere else? Clown world!
It certainly seems to be more regressive than progressive, doesn't it?
Reviving Jim Crow era bs and calling it progress is going to be an epic fail.
More broken logic? Progressives cannot be conservative at the same time.
Go Fish.
It's all so sad and empty. We will simply have to keep the 'dumbing-down" to a minimum (as best we can). SP, "Thank you for your service."
I don't know of anyone who thinks that we are an "irredeemably systemic" racist nation,
but if the whole CRT misunderstanding has done nothing else, it has raised awareness on previously ignored atrocities
and behaviors, particularly like JR has revealed, SCOTUS defended racial discrimination as late as the 1960's.
We are far from perfect.
Levittown PA one of Jr's focal points had some ugly moments in the 60's and 70;s
is still 97% white, 3% black.
Hardly representative of the racial makeup of the five County Philadelphia area,
just the 4 outside of Philly proper.
Example deed that contains a racial covenant clause Third (Clause) above is quite interesting.
Please tell me they changed this language for NC deeds in 2021? I am horrified to say I would not be surprised if they didn't, but I sure hope they did?
This group of people help transcribe racial covenant clauses into something more "accommodating" in this new American century. It is laborious work to my understanding, in the sense that they have to find the myriad 'offending documents' and get permission to make reasonable changes in cases where the offensive can not be lifted out whole from the documents.
I'll be damned. Seattle and King County is in your link, too! This is where I live! I thought, since we were the bluest of the blue, we'd be not racist - but apparently, there is still much racist language in our CCRs.
I live on the Eastside (one of the suburbs east of Seattle), King County, we always vote blue, but it seems my little subdivision is just full-on white racist. We have a number of Chinese here now, Chinese investors, that is, they don't actually live here, and they don't rent, but this is where they park their money. So, white suburbanite racists are somewhat diluted now. But still, not enough non-racists of us to counter them, and of course our CCRs haven't changed since the neighborhood was built 15 years ago. No overt racist language in the CCRs that I have seen, though. Just secondary racist language - "no loud parties. No many family cars. No cars parked in the driveways overnight. No rowdy children. No basketball nets in yards. No loudness when children playing basketball in the neighborhood park. No loud music after 7pm" ETC
My neighbor complained to me that Bob Marley's "Legend" I was playing when I was gardening sounded "violent". FFS! That was about 10 years ago, he humbled a lot since then, but still - Bob Marley "violent" in 2012?!
Talk about racist privileged white people. It's 2021,and they are all still racist and privileged, just more covert now.
Really? You bought or rent there so you must have agreed to those CCRs. So how are you any less racist or less responsible for perpetrating the racism you see in the CCRs than the rest of your neighbors?
Or maybe, just maybe, rules about noise after a certain hour and too many cars in the street aren’t racist at all. Perhaps they’re just pledges to exercise common neighborly courtesy presented in writing? Maybe they are there to prevent my racist white neighbor from putting a basketball hoop up in front of their house so close to our driveway that it blew over in a wind storm and hit my car. I don’t know about your neighborhood, but our CCRs are pretty toothless. I find it better to talk to the neighbor and build a rapport. That hoop has now been removed and comes out only when the kids want to play. No problem and certainly no cause for assuming an underlying racist intent.
The area does have a long and ugly history of discrimination and violence, especially against Native Americans. The ''Fish Wars'' of the 1960s and 70s is the most obvious. The state of Washington declared war on the Muckleshoot, Nisqually, and Puyallup tribes over fishing rights which were granted to the tribes by the US government under treaty. The intimidation and violence by the state were long, ugly, costly, and completely illegal. Tribal members and their supporters were beaten, arrested, and jailed illegally and convicted of crimes that did not exist, their criminal records were never expunged so for the rest of their lives they carried that burden.
That is only one case/incident but it had long-lasting effects.
Of course, the restrictive deeds and segregated neighborhoods were active until the 2000s.
Thanks for being open, sharing, and helpful to growing this discussion MsMarple. In any manner you perceive it. The links are deeply interesting, in-depth, and involved. (Smile.)
My understanding up to this point is these 'covenants" are tied to the land and not to people, making them hard to lift out of deeds. However, new buyers are being encouraged to read their deeds closely and if they wish come in to have these (now) illegal clauses "enhanced"-not removed-to allow for Blacks and Others to dwell on the property/ies.
Interesting. Thank you for this perspective too! (Smile.)
Thanks! I am going to read both of your links through! (Smile.)
Really good stuff, Kavika! A keeper!
True dat, Freewill, and Mea Culpa. My husband and I were just emerging from the Great Recession bankruptcy, living paycheck to paycheck, renting the whole time. We managed to save a few bucks, than this estate came on our radar. Just barely removed from unemployment and homelessness - we jumped on it. We did NOT read any CCRs, and if we did, it wouldn't have made a difference from where we were coming from.
I know, we didn't even read the CCRs - we were not in a position to agree or disagree with them then.
We were made aware of the CCRs basically 3 months after we moved in:
No Barack Obama signs - too divisive. Yet Mitt Romney signs were OK somehow ?
BTW, us having a basketball net on our property would not cause the kinda damage you describe. We are not living here like sardines boxed in. These are estates, with ample room. You'd never see basketball on your property from another property, but you'd hear it - maybe. These are multi-million-dollar estates, ok?
"pledges to exercise common neighborly courtesy"
Well, here is the thing. My neighbor heard Bob Marley "The Legend" at 7pm in the middle of July - and he complained that the music was "too violent". "I shot the Sheriff" set him off, you see
I have a garden (instead of industrial landscaping), and a couple of neighbors keep complaining that my Shasta daisies and foxgloves and peonies are "not uniform" with their manicured boxwood shrubs. So, they want me to remove my flowers and just go to boxwoods. And I FIGHT them. Because freedom, you see?
So, is it my fault not reading the CCRs when we bought this property?
Yes, yes it is. We didn't read the CCRs, we were going basically on an investment hunt at that point. Too little money, too little time until we get too old to be employed.
Our property went up 300% since we bought it in 2012, and it will pay for our retirement. So, I say "F-U" to the old retired white creeps who are trying to police me, my music, my garden and a basketball net they can't even see.
Where is their "neighborly courtesy". huh?
Good point. And good question. I would have insisted that you to turn up the volume on anything by Marley (Bob or Ziggy or Damian or Ky-Mani). I think they are all great!
Funny you mention the political signs. Our next door neighbor, a very nice black family, had Obama signs in their yard during that time and nobody had any issue with it. They were our favorite neighbors in the house next door which has changed hands 4 times since we have been here. Their son was quite a bit younger than my boys so they didn't hang out too much, but what a great kid! Unfortunately, they moved to a nicer neighborhood and our new neighbors are OK but it just isn't the same.
Fast forward to 2016, Trump signs were torn up immediately along with graffiti and other defacing of the homes that displayed the sign, while Hillary signs were all over the place and for the most part left alone. Nary a sign to be seen in 2020, I wonder why?! People have lost their freaking minds!
Yes, I do see and I'd support you in that fight.
By the way, congratulations on your investment! We are sitting on ours now too after 20 years, just waiting for the right time to get the best return.
You a reggae fan???? OMG, I found a kindred spirit on here!
Wish you were my neighbor
No, Jerry the Neighbor is all upset about my music.
But he really mellowed out in just the last year. His wife and him both have cancer. I guess that reset their perspectives as to what's important...
Last August they all went to their daughter's wedding on Lake Chelan for a week - and guess who watched their house, watered their plants and took care of their cat? Me. Also my daughter and my mom (cuz we left for Hawaii 2 days before they came home, so mom watched our house, and theirs, our cats and theirs, also my brother's cats, cuz my brother and his wife joined us in Hawaii for a few days. Mom was watching FIVE CATS in 3 houses!)
My favorite is Damian and Stephen, they usually collaborate. Was just listening to this song today:
Stand a Chance -
The Marley "kids" are wicked talented! Just listen to their lyrics!
Here is a pic from Damian/Stephen concert in 2015, I went to their concerts three times, but this is the only concert I can find pix from.
Sorry, copy/paste not working for some reason
I'll try in a new post
Hmm, no luck still. How do I attach a picture to my post? This other guy, McArthur, does it all the time?
Sorry. I am too clueless for this site!
Awesome! Love it! Bob Marley's music, actually reggae and ska in general, was always among my favorite sounds! And I see that his kids are carrying on his talent while at the same time making it their own. It is a sound that is impossible not to move and sway to! Among my favorite Marley songs is "Three Little Birds", came out when I was in high school in the late 70's. I'd listen to that over and over again. Reggae had a big influence on another of my favorite bands at that time The Clash. I've had quite an eclectic taste for music over the years. I've lost track of it a bit as I've grown older but this was really cool to hear. Thanks MsMarple!
Hi! Just bee-bopping along and saw this:
Well, you can try this:
Upload and Insert A New Image.
CAUTION: Be sure to select the proper image saved on your computer, because WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get). If you accidentally upload the wrong image, delete from your comment before posting and use "Embed Local Media" to return and "X" out the wrong image from the server!)
Safe and sound! Hope this helps.
Questions? Ask!
Damian Marley in rocking it in a local park. LOVE HIM
Thank you CB!
The first two didn't work, but the last one did - thank you so much. That's what I love about this community - folks don't shun newcomers.
Happy Halloween!
I went to Japan with my SIL in 2014, it was all very strange to me.
We drove for almost 8 hours to get to Sapporo that was just a little over 300 mi away. (50km an hour was the highest speed). In the car we played Bob Marley and "Three Little Birds" came on, and me and my SIL were just screaming the lyrics, we were so goddamn tired! LOZ, that was good times!
On the way back to her mom's house I said: "F- it, just go on the highways (toll highways), I'll pay".
The highway was EMPTY. NOBODY on it. We zoomed it home. Guess what we had to pay when we got off the empty highway - $80 in tolls!
Crazy. I never paid $80 in tolls in America, no matter where I drove.
The Three Little Birds made it all worth it
"Spooky 'Ween."
See what I did there? I "copy and paste" -d your image and flipped it directionally. And then I "dragged and dropped" it below from your comment too -without losing other parts of my comment (because it is the original image and not a copy)!
I am glad you succeeded in your efforts to use the 'uploader' window!
Now just try this: (How do you get to Carnegie Hall: " Practice ," " Practice ," Practice ."):
Copy and Paste technique: Hover over an image >> right click on it >> " Copy " >> go to location >> right click again >> " Paste" (this time).
Drag and Drop technique : Hover over an image >> click AND hold (do not let go of it) >> drag (all the way to destination) >> drop (release).
ok, ok, rub it in!
1. The Copy/Paste technique didn't work for me. I click "copy" on the image, then go to my post on here, click "Paste" or "Ctrl-V" - nothing happens.
2. "Drag and Drop" - not happened, either. I can drag, but the "drop" not working. And I was one of those people at MSFT who INVENTED "Drag and Drop".
Maybe I need some "seniority" or something to do it easy like that? I don't know. I am a newbie here. Everything is hard for me
Copy the image and save it to your hard drive. Save is as a .jpg or .png format
Then go to the comment window where you want to post them image to
Click on the box with the arrow in it on the comment window tool bar, next to the round smiley face
When the window opens, click on the Upload Image tab
Then navigate to where you saved to image you want to post and click on it
It should then copy the image into the comment window
Once to see the image in the comment window, click the Post Your Comment tab at the bottom of the comment window.
That will save the image in the window and post it to the in the comment window.
Hope this helps.
Oh my! (Smile.)
I am so sorry you are having a time of it with "Copy/Paste" and "Drag/Drop" techniques. I use them absent-mindedly these days. Props to your MSFT training, btw.
Nice MsMarple!
I just watched a new movie called " The Harder They Fall ". Great movie, and the soundtrack is among the best of any movie I have seen in a long time. Check out the movie and let me know what you think! I think you will like it, especially the soundtrack toward the beginning of the film.