The world should physically intervene in Ukraine

  

Category:  Other

By:  dig  •  4 months ago  •  284 comments

The world should physically intervene in Ukraine

Standing by watching Putin's invasion of Ukraine is becoming unbearable to me.

Ukraine did nothing to Russia. This invasion is completely unjustified and a blatant violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty, not to mention a violation of everything good and just in the world, so here's the question:

Why can't the world go to Ukraine's aid — physically, militarily?

It doesn't have to be an official NATO action. When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, many nations (not just the USA) intervened militarily and expelled them, and it wasn't about NATO.

The world can and should do something like that again. It doesn't require a declaration of war on Russia itself, just an expulsion from Ukraine. There's nothing wrong with standing up to naked aggression like this, in fact it's the right thing to do. Innocent people are being killed – murdered – by Putin.

This is not OK.

I say the world needs to respond with actual force. Every nation that has condemned Putin's actions should be invited to rapidly deploy relevant units to the area, Poland maybe, and then get in there and save the friggin' day! 

How can everyone just stand on the sidelines and watch? Ukraine (a former constituent member of the USSR, no less) is a young, albeit troubled democracy, and they want to STAY a democracy. They want to stay free. This is important!

While appreciative of sanctions and things like the Javelin anti-tank weapons, they've been pleading for more help on almost every news camera they can find. I say the world should give it to them, pronto.

Does anyone else agree with me on this? Not a declaration of war on Russia itself, and not an official NATO-led action, but a rapid deployment of a global coalition strong enough to expel Putin's forces from Ukraine. 

Putin's nukes should not be considered an absolute pass for him to do anything he wants, especially evil shit like this. He knows damn well that using them will bring them down on himself in return. MAD still exists.


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Dig
PhD Guide
1  author  Dig    4 months ago

"Russian warship... Go f*** yourself!"

Right up there with "Nuts!"

Shouldn't the world come together and stop this shit? How can we just let this go? How can the free world just let Ukraine go?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Dig @1    4 months ago
How can we just let this go? How can the free world just let Ukraine go?

russia has plenty of supporters of autocracy...

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
1.1.1  author  Dig  replied to  devangelical @1.1    4 months ago

That video is so poignant.

I just saw a story about how Tucker Carlson is suddenly acting like his previous statements never happened, and is now condemning Putin and calling the invasion a big deal.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Dig @1.1.1    4 months ago
I just saw a story about how Tucker Carlson is suddenly acting like his previous statements never happened, and is now condemning Putin and calling the invasion a big deal.

I saw that too...typical!

At first he went on and on about how "its not our fight"...and how the Ukraine is not important..and why should we support Ukraine over Russia, And we aren't in any alliance with Ukraine.

Yada, yada, yada.

And of course the usual suspects on NT echoed his sentiments. 

Then as it became more and more obvious how barbaric the Russians are (under Putin)...it started to get a bit embaressing for For Tucker Cuckhold...and for Trump as well.

I've started watching Fox news recently. And their turnaround was amazing! From totally "This fight is not our fight".."None of our business".. a few whaddaboudisms of course...and occasional praise for all the wonderful things Putin has done... to sending mixed messages...
And the I was watching Fox news yesterday...and it blew my mind! Some of them were actually reporting the facts! It seemed like an actual news channel!

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
1.1.3  author  Dig  replied to  Krishna @1.1.2    4 months ago

I saw on a Ukrainian parliament member's Twitter feed (Kira Rudik) that she talked to Fox News today. I didn't watch the clip, but it struck me as ironic and made me wonder if she's aware of some of the messaging Fox was putting out just a couple of days ago, like the vile crap Tucker Carlson was saying right after the invasion.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.2  Ronin2  replied to  Dig @1    4 months ago

The world? 

Biden begged China; and China flipped him off and gave all of the intelligence they received from the US on Russia to the Russians. China wants Taiwan and expects Russia to support them when the time comes.

There are other countries that support Russia and don't support US/NATO hegemony. Yes, believe it or not US/NATO isn't loved by several countries throughout the world.

Of the countries listed Israel is the funniest. All that money from the US; and they still want to be impartial.

As for letting it go; why not take a long hard look on how "we" got here? The writing has been on the wall for a very long time; but career dumbasses in the US government and NATO countries refused to see it. For the past 40 years we have been flipped former Soviet block states to NATO, Countries that Democracies in name only; and that we would never support if it weren't to isolate Russia. Ukraine was a bridge too far. Flipping them to NATO would have given Russia an entire front of NATO countries. Remember when Kennedy almost started WWIII over the Cuban missile crisis? He forced Russia to back down. Think the US wouldn't do that again to Putin if he decided to give Cuba nukes, and advanced weapons to take down US aircraft, naval vessels, and armored vehicles? 

Now on to the most worthless alliance ever NATO. This isn't a world problem- this is a Europe/NATO problem. Ukraine is one of those great "Democracy in name only" countries that we are supporting just because they are anti Russian. We will even tolerate their government's support of fascists; so long as they are anti Russian. Their government is corrupt to the core; but we are willing to ignore that as well. As for NATO; they are as worthless as a military body as ever. The US shouldn't have to deploy it's forces to the border countries; that is the responsibility of European members. Funny how those countries aren't screaming for NATO; but the US. 

The US/NATO backed Putin into a corner; and are now shocked he is pushing back. 

The world, yah, they don't give a shit about Ukraine. They will just be happy not to glow in the dark. 

Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened a Russian retaliation if the U.S. or NATO allies cross a “red line” by reinforcing Ukraine by sending certain weapons, such as hypersonic weapons, cruise missiles and missile defense systems, to which he said Russia will match. “If some kind of strike systems appear on the territory of Ukraine, the flight time to Moscow will be seven to 10 minutes, and five minutes in the case of a hypersonic weapon being deployed,” Putin said during an investment forum in Moscow, Reuters reported Tuesday. “What are we to do in such a scenario? We will have to then create something similar in relation to those who threaten us in that way. And we can do that now.”

If we want to play what ifs.

Where was the US in supporting Syria when they were invaded by Iraqi ISIS/ISIL? Sure we supported, armed, and trained Anti Assad rebel forces against ISIS/ISIL; but we also took actions to cut off the Syrian government through sanctions and the UN. We also imposed sanctions against Russia when the entered Syria on Assad's side. Russia, Russia, Russia, I know. It is almost like we wanted to oust Assad rather than defeat ISIS/ISIL  At least Hillary had the balls to state it.  Things would have turned out great after that; because the US has had so much success in nation building./S

Of course we are great at ignoring conflicts if they don't concern us or our chief allies:

Of course we ignored Iran's backing of the Houthi rebels to overthrow the legitimate Yemen government; so why shouldn't we ignore Saudi Arabia retaliating in Yemen?

We left the Georgians out to dry when Putin invaded; but Ukraine- some want to go to war over.

I am sure I could point out several other conflicts that are far more deadly that the US has stayed out of. 

I have no problem with those that want to fight Russia. Just fly to the nearest border country to Ukraine. Drop your all of your US identification in the nearest garbage bin (make sure there is a nice fire going); and cross the border. The Ukrainians have more than enough weapons, ammo, grenades, and how to make explosives pamphlets to give to anyone. I am sure if enough keyboard warriors do this Ukraine will be able to stop Russia in their tracks.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.2.1  JBB  replied to  Ronin2 @1.2    4 months ago

The Free World...

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
1.2.2  author  Dig  replied to  Ronin2 @1.2    4 months ago
Now on to the most worthless alliance ever NATO.

That's as far as I could get into your ridiculous screed.

NATO is the most important and successful military alliance in history. It was a huge deterrent against the Soviets during the Cold War, and Putin is still pulling his hair out over it today. In fact, it's had 100% success in protecting its member states from Russian aggression. Get a fucking clue, man. That's as good as it gets.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Krishna  replied to  Ronin2 @1.2    4 months ago
There are other countries that support Russia and don't support US/NATO hegemony. Yes, believe it or not US/NATO isn't loved by several countries throughout the world.

OMG. I am shocked!

I had thought that every country on earth-- and even every person-- was aware of the horrors of Russia's totalitarian government..and Putin's true nature.

But now you've told us the facts...which we never knew before!

Imagine-- there are actually some people on this planet who hate the U.S....and love Putin!

Many thanks for enlightening us!

(Do I really need the sarcasm label here...?)

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.2.4  Krishna  replied to  Ronin2 @1.2    4 months ago
Of the countries listed Israel is the funniest. All that money from the US; and they still want to be impartial.

Do you know why?

(Playing lawyer here for a few minutes jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png )

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.2.5  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @1.2.4    4 months ago
Of the countries listed Israel is the funniest. All that money from the US; and they still want to be impartial.
Do you know why? (Playing lawyer here for a few minutes )

Actually I realized my question might not have been clear-- so let me re-phrase it:

Do you know why?

jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Lucifer Morningstar
Professor Guide
1.3  Lucifer Morningstar  replied to  Dig @1    4 months ago

Are you a big fan of World War III?   Let the world know.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.1  TᵢG  replied to  Lucifer Morningstar @1.3    4 months ago

Ruthless leaders like Putin, if allowed to do so, would continue to acquire new nations by conquest.   

The world either sits back and allows this to occur or it takes counter actions.

Should thieves be allowed to freely loot a neighborhood or should the community (collectively) prevent this?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2  Kavika     4 months ago

I favor that at the very least the world should be supplying them with high-tech offensive weapons and anything other that they would need to draw as much blood from the Russians that they can.

If anyone thinks that Putin will stop at the Ukraine they are, IMO, wrong. Look at his history going back to Georgia in 2008 where they still control 20% of an independent country, next the Crimea and now all of Ukraine. Or ask Chechen people.

Today he threatened Finland and Sweden. 

IMO, Putin is less interested in NATO than in his legacy as the person that re-established the great Russian Empire.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
2.1  author  Dig  replied to  Kavika @2    4 months ago

I think air power combined with a robust ground supply of Ukrainian forces might actually be enough.

If several nations formed a coalition to control the skies over Ukraine, including air-to-ground attacks on Russian vehicles (starting with anti-air units), then the Ukrainians could be supplied with whatever weapons, fuel, and supplies they would need to mop up the rest by themselves. Ground troops from other nations might not even be needed.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Dig @2.1    4 months ago

If NATO had a no-fly zone over Ukraine that would really limit Russian power and give the Ukraine ground forces a chance to force Russia into bog downed offensive. Which is a loser for the Russians.

I would add that President Zelensky is showing immense courage as is his cabinet.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Dig @2.1    4 months ago

IMO getting weapons into the hands of the disaffected in russia, and especially belarus, would serve the purpose of creating an anti-putin insurgency on multiple fronts. putin was able to eliminate most of his detractors thru incarceration or death, obviously an accepted russian solution to domestic personnel issues. I doubt that putin was alone in those decisions. at some point the heat will be too great for other influential russians that can afford to be more free than the average russian, and don't want to give up their big fish/little pond lifestyles. once they all run their balance sheets, putin would be ill advised to touch any doorknobs or get too close to any windows above the 4th floor.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
2.1.3  author  Dig  replied to  devangelical @2.1.2    4 months ago
IMO getting weapons into the hands of the disaffected in russia, and especially belarus, would serve the purpose of creating an anti-putin insurgency on multiple fronts.

I hear you, but arming revolutionaries within Russia itself might be a bridge too far. For the time being, anyway.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.4  devangelical  replied to  Dig @2.1.3    4 months ago

creating a drone air force for ukraine would solve the russian air superiority problem. multiple defensive weapon platforms available with pilots far from the battlefield.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
2.1.5  author  Dig  replied to  Kavika @2.1.1    4 months ago
I would add that President Zelensky is showing immense courage as is his cabinet.

It's been inspirational. I even saw Poroshenko in central Kiev this morning, with what looked like a rag tag group of defenders armed only with Kalashnikovs and a couple of machine guns, ready to fight.

Members of the government, women included, and Zelenskyy himself have indeed been courageous. I wish somebody would do something for them on the ground.

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
2.1.6  shona1  replied to  Dig @2.1.3    4 months ago

Anoon dig... there are four million Ukrainians living in Russia at the moment..

An excellent source of discontentment within Russia itself..

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
2.1.7  author  Dig  replied to  devangelical @2.1.4    4 months ago
creating a drone air force for ukraine would solve the russian air superiority problem. multiple defensive weapon platforms available with pilots far from the battlefield.

Maybe, but is there time? Already-existing man-portable air defense weapons might be more practical. I'm not sure what's in the inventory these days, but things like Stingers.

Still, we could dominate the skies with planes already based in Europe long before we could get any anti-air weapons to Ukrainians on the ground, and they need air support against Russian tanks right now, this very minute.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
2.1.8  author  Dig  replied to  shona1 @2.1.6    4 months ago
Anoon dig... there are four million Ukrainians living in Russia at the moment.. An excellent source of discontentment within Russia itself..

You have a point there. Has anyone heard about protests in Russia today? I know they happened yesterday, but I haven't yet heard about today. I'm hoping they grow to a massive scale. Putin can't arrest everybody.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.1.9  Dulay  replied to  Dig @2.1.7    4 months ago

NATO and the US have been sending Ukraine stinger anti-aircraft and Javelin anti-tank weapons since late January. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
2.1.10  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Dig @2.1.5    4 months ago

I have great respect for the guy who said he is not a soldier but would fight if he has to.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
2.1.11  author  Dig  replied to  Dulay @2.1.9    4 months ago

I knew about the javelins, but not the stingers. That's good to hear. We need to keep the supply going. I still wish wish someone would do more for them.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.2  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @2    4 months ago

I'd like to volunteer about 700 revolutionaries from 1/6/21 that are currently involved with the US legal system. they all have experience in "taking their country back". give them back all their camo clothes and put them on a plane to the front. they can pick up a free AK to kill russians when they get there. if they live to the end of the war, they can consider their sentences served and go to the nearest US consulate, apply for a replacement passport or travel visa, and come back to america, pending DHS/FBI approval...

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
2.2.1  bbl-1  replied to  devangelical @2.2    4 months ago

I would not trust them.  They might defect or commit atrocities just for the sake of atrocities.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.2.2  devangelical  replied to  bbl-1 @2.2.1    4 months ago

shhh... we'll tell the ukrainians to give them russian uniforms. we'll call them the tucker carlson brigade.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @2.2    4 months ago

Wow, you seem big on volunteering others.

Why?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.2.4  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.3    4 months ago

wow, you seem big on deflection. why?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
2.2.5  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  devangelical @2.2    4 months ago

Now that their orange god is besties with Putin, they most likely would take up Putin's cause to please Trump and go after the Ukrainians.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.2.6  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.3    4 months ago
Wow, you seem big on volunteering others.

Sure as hell not going to volunteer himself. Most liberals look down on those that volunteer to protect this country.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
2.3  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @2    4 months ago
Today he threatened Finland and Sweden. 

Which, when you think about it, is pretty far-fetched-- given the fact that not only is Sweden not a NATO memberr-- but that they been neutral for a long, long time. (Andeven during WWII they remained officially neutral)

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3  JohnRussell    4 months ago

No one is going to send combat forces into a country they dont have a mutual self defense treaty with. It would be political suicide. I think a better idea would be to get Putin assassinated.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
3.1  author  Dig  replied to  JohnRussell @3    4 months ago
No one is going to send combat forces into a country they dont have a mutual self defense treaty with.

History disagrees with you. A lot.

I think a better idea would be to get Putin assassinated.

Seems a bit cowardly and dishonorable to me. An out in the open ass-kicking is what Putin really needs, IMO.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
3.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @3.1    4 months ago
Seems a bit cowardly and dishonorable to me. An out in the open ass-kicking is what Putin really needs, IMO.

I agree, but the expediency of Putin being assassinated sure is tempting.

If only some enterprising Russian with access would take one for the team, without us or NATO being involved at all...

Damn scruples.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.2  devangelical  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.1    4 months ago

as with all criminal organizations, there's always somebody farther down the table that thinks they're not getting a big enough piece of the pie. if it happens, putin will probably get his ticket punched by a russian intelligence agent he knows and trusts, with orders from the kremlin, an inside job.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
3.1.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  devangelical @3.1.2    4 months ago

I saw something on Facebook today, and I'm not sure how reliable it is, but it said that some Russian oligarchs' assets have already been greatly devalued.  Putin's war has become a financial ball and chain to his richest friends.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.1.4  Krishna  replied to  Dig @3.1    4 months ago
Seems a bit cowardly and dishonorable to me. An out in the open ass-kicking is what Putin really needs, IMO.

Maybe..

You have to weigh the pros and cons.

There was an assassination plot on Hitler-- that came close to suceeding but failed.

Call the perps cowardly..even..dishonorable..if you like.

But I wonder if history would have been different (much better) if it succeeded?

How many innocent lives would have been saved?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.1.5  Krishna  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.1    4 months ago
Damn scruples.

Scruples?

Or a sort of unrealistic idealism?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
3.1.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  Krishna @3.1.5    4 months ago

Possibly.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
3.1.7  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @3.1    4 months ago
Seems a bit cowardly and dishonorable to me.

You know, at this point, with the threat of a nuclear attack now out there, and Belarus and Chechnya joining in the aggression, I'm going to change my position.  Putin needs killing.  I am now for the expedient over the right.  The stakes are too high for him to be allowed to live and possibly do this all over again, once this is all over.

He no longer has the support of his own country.

His officials are apologizing for the invasion.

Russia is ripe for a regime change.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
3.1.8  author  Dig  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.7    4 months ago

The ante has certainly been upped.

I don't know how anyone from the West could pull it off, though, unless someone actually has plants in the Kremlin. If a sane Russian near him was in a position do it, I'd be all for it. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
3.1.9  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @3.1.8    4 months ago
If a sane Russian near him was in a position do it, I'd be all for it. 

I'd say that's the best we could hope for.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.2  JBB  replied to  JohnRussell @3    4 months ago

No one? We didn't have mutual defense treaties with Iraq or Afghanistan. The point of wars is shattering old agreements and ultimately forcing new ones...

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
3.2.1  bbl-1  replied to  JBB @3.2    4 months ago

Or Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua and a few others if I recall.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.2.2  Kavika   replied to  bbl-1 @3.2.1    4 months ago

I don't believe that we had a mutual defense pact with Kuwait when Iraq invaded. We had one after the war was over in 1991.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
3.2.3  bbl-1  replied to  Kavika @3.2.2    4 months ago

Yeah.  But that 'mutual defense pact' had nothing to do with democracy.  That was only for OIL.  Remember?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.2.4  Kavika   replied to  bbl-1 @3.2.3    4 months ago

Without a doubt it was all about oil.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.2.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Kavika @3.2.2    4 months ago

With some of these other situations there was a unanimity within our country. If we were to send troops into Ukraine and let's say hundreds of Americans were killed there would be a tremendous political uproar in America. The last polling I saw showed well less than half of Americans want to see US troops in combat in Ukraine

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
3.2.6  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  bbl-1 @3.2.3    4 months ago

Oh you were there? you know for a fact YOU were there for oil?

 I know i wasnt there for oil , i was there because a despot tried to subjugate his neighbor to his will and take away their freedom of choice and chosen government  .

So unless you were there in the first gulf war , i will kindly as one who was, ask you to shut your fucking mouth about what we who were, there for .

 On that it might be better to keep your opinion to yourself even though you are entitled to one 

 [deleted]

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
3.2.7  bbl-1  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.5    4 months ago

Aw hell, John.  We have hundreds upon hundreds of Americans dying every week from COVID and gunshot wounds----and much of that could be prevented.

Freedom and democracy too often require ultimate sacrifice.  The only question to be asked is, "Is it worth it?"  I say it is.

As far as American polls----------Damn near half of (the Americans) believe in the 'stable genius' and think Stormy was an angel sent by gawd to comfort the orange one.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
3.2.8  bbl-1  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @3.2.6    4 months ago

[removed]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.2.9  JohnRussell  replied to  bbl-1 @3.2.7    4 months ago

Biden said from the beginning that we are not going to send combat troops into Ukraine and it was well-received within the United States . He's not going to change his mind now

What's happening in Ukraine today was completely predicted and forseen.

Maybe the US and NATO could set up a no-fly zone over part of the country but that's as far as it's going to go if it even goes that far

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
3.2.10  bbl-1  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.9    4 months ago

We do not need troops on the ground.  Our air power would greatly weaken the Russian offensive.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.2.11  JBB  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.9    4 months ago

I agree that it would have to get way worse to justify troops but also think we cannot and should not take options off the table while negotiating with Putin. He certainly is not...

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
3.2.12  bbl-1  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @3.2.6    4 months ago

First Gulf War.

You are no less a sucker than I was in Vietnam.  Get off the chest pumping.  We were used.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.13  devangelical  replied to  bbl-1 @3.2.12    4 months ago

iraq invaded kuwait because they had a nicer beach, don't ya know...

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
3.2.14  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.9    4 months ago

I saw on the news that the Ukraine is a no fly zone now.  They showed a computer simulation of planes in other air spaces but not one was over the Ukraine.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.15  devangelical  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @3.2.14    4 months ago

I would think taking a commercial flight over the ukraine could be a little bit dicey...

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
3.2.16  bbl-1  replied to  devangelical @3.2.13    4 months ago

That is not true.  Kuwait was slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields.  

If you remember, after Iraq took control of Kuwait for a period of time the world did nothing.  The Bush Administration asserted that the US did not have any defense agreements with Kuwait.

Then---and however---Iraq informed OPEC that whatever the price for OIL they would set, Iraq would put Kuwait OIL on the market for 2/3s the price.  Very soon after that the stories began to appear of Iraqi atrocities, even including Iraqi soldiers going through Kuwaiti hospitals and bayoneting babies.  Do you remember that?  

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
3.2.17  bbl-1  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.5    4 months ago

And that less than half are MAGA.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.2.18  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @3.2.2    4 months ago
I don't believe that we had a mutual defense pact with Kuwait when Iraq invaded.

Well in that case.. some people would argue that the world would be a better place if the allies allowed Saddam to be in power!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.2.19  Krishna  replied to  bbl-1 @3.2.10    4 months ago
We do not need troops on the ground.  Our air power would greatly weaken the Russian offensive.

Exactly.

I've often been surprised of the "backward looking" analysis by many news commentators. They are looking at wars of the past-- where you had to send in soldiers (and risk large numbers of casualties).

Wars can now be fought-- and won-- from command posts far away-- AI advances have been amazing. You can send in smart missiles and/or drones from distant command posts without risking a single American life!

(Id there's a need for occupation after the war has been won, that's different-- but IMO after Putin's total conquest of the Ukraine most of his troops can leave-- he can put in place a puppet gov't consisting of Ukrainians...so if there's anuprising there Ukrianian flunkies will lose their lves-- not Russians!)

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.2.20  Krishna  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.5    4 months ago
If we were to send troops into Ukraine and let's say hundreds of Americans were killed there would be a tremendous political uproar in America.

Ya think?

But why on earth would we need to needlessly risk American lives?

 
 
 
arkpdx
PhD Participates
3.2.21  arkpdx  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.9    4 months ago
He's not going to change his mind now 

He ought to change his mind. The one he's got now is not functioning properly 

LETS GO BRANDON!

 

 

 
 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
3.3  bbl-1  replied to  JohnRussell @3    4 months ago

No.  A Putin on trial for stealing hundreds of billions for himself and his oligarch friends from the Russian people would be much more fun------and a deadly blow to autocrats everywhere.

And when the embezzling trials are over there are numerous charges of murder that could be brought against Putin.  And after that there are probably charges of international war crimes that could be brought against him.  In the end, Putin needs good lawyers.  Guiliani and Powell come to mind. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
3.3.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  bbl-1 @3.3    4 months ago

One well aimed Hades bomb over the Kremlin would do the trick.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.3.3  Krishna  replied to  bbl-1 @3.3    4 months ago
No.  A Putin on trial for stealing hundreds of billions for himself and his oligarch friends from the Russian people would be much more fun------and a deadly blow to autocrats everywhere.

More fun?

I wonder if the Ukrainians feel that way?
(After all, they're the ones who are suffering...not the armchair quarterbacks on NT!

I could be wrong, but my guess is that most Unkrianians would rather see him dead...

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
3.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  JohnRussell @3    4 months ago

He already has a death sentence....cancer.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
3.4.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @3.4    4 months ago

Not that I'm doubting you, but where did you hear that?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
3.4.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.4.1    4 months ago

I googled it after a friend told me.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.4.3  Krishna  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @3.4    4 months ago
He already has a death sentence....cancer.

But that might not be quick enough for the Ukrainians who are actually under fire..as we speak!

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
3.4.4  author  Dig  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @3.4    4 months ago

That might explain why he's been sitting so far away from his ministers in the meetings shown on TV. It might be because he's being treated and is immunocompromised.

Someone with Covid needs to go cough on him.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
4  bbl-1    4 months ago

Precisely.  And specially to free the Russian people from an autocratic regime they do not deserve to live under.  Navalny for president!

We know exactly where the Russian positions are.  Cruise missiles, F-16s and F-18s with French, German, and British fighters and fighter bombers.  Let them taste war.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
4.1  bbl-1  replied to  bbl-1 @4    4 months ago

And while we're at it----------------the hell with the corrupt/murderous Putin puppet regime in Belarus.  Wipe it clean.  Free the people of Belarus.  Show the autocracies that the democracies have very-very sharp teeth and will slash and tear them asunder.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5  Buzz of the Orient    4 months ago

And where were all these feelings and opinions when Hamas rains missiles on the Israelis, and are committed to the destruction of Israel in their constitution and will not stop until they can rule "Palestine" from the river to the sea?  The UN that has so obviously and consistently demonized Israel sheds tears for the Ukraine.  Oh, wait, I almost forgot, Israel is the homeland of the JEWS and is majority JEWISH. .

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5.1  bbl-1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5    4 months ago

Uh gee Buzz, the president of Ukraine is also Jewish.  You know that, right?

As far as Hamas, they are simply religious nutcase terrorists.  Religion can be evil.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  bbl-1 @5.1    4 months ago

I know Zelenskyy is Jewish, but his nation isn't.  When the UN provides the respect and support for Israel that it does for the Ukraine, I'll find respect for the UN.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.1    4 months ago

To me, the UN is a huge failure.

Too corrupt and gives in too easily to superpowers.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5.1.3  bbl-1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.1    4 months ago

Religion is not the point here.  

Democracy or autocracy is the point.  The only point.

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
5.1.4  shona1  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.2    4 months ago

Couldn't agree more..

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  bbl-1 @5.1.3    4 months ago

The UN does not differentiate between the political makeup of nations.  Only Western nations are paranoid about the difference.  

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.1.6  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.2    4 months ago

The UN (Useless Nations) is a politicized paper tiger! It has long outlived any usefulness it might once have had.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5.1.7  bbl-1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.5    4 months ago

Uh-------------The UN and NATO are two different entities with two different objectives.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.1.8  Krishna  replied to  bbl-1 @5.1    4 months ago
As far as Hamas, they are simply religious nutcase terrorists.

Well there are a lot of religious nutcases..worldwide.

The problem is..there is already a self-governing Palestinian entity-- and the terror group Hamas totally runs it!

(And the Gazan who live there and don't support their totalitarian government are tortured.. and then killed!)

So simply "nutcases"...well its not exactly all that simple...

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.1.9  Krishna  replied to  bbl-1 @5.1.3    4 months ago
Religion is not the point here.  

Well, yes and no.

One of Putin's stated grievances against the Ukraine is that they are all druggies and Nazis.

(Of course that's a lie).

But what's a bit bizarre is that he's accusing them of being a Nazi controlled entity-- and their leader is actually a Jew!

(Which reflects more on Putin than anything else...and while some wars are about religion, in truth this war is not about religion at all).

 
 
 
arkpdx
PhD Participates
5.1.10  arkpdx  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.1    4 months ago

The UN is as worthless as a ton of iron pyrite. The building and the land it sits on would be better utilized as a shelter and camp for New York's homeless. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.1.11  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  arkpdx @5.1.10    4 months ago

69 years ago my parents took me to NYC and besides seeing the original cast Broadway productions of The King and I and Guys and Dolls, I toured the UN building, watched the iconic Krishna Menon speak to the General Assembly, and was so impressed and hopeful of its purpose.  And now, what a disappointment.  I have also previously not so long ago said that they should be kicked out of NYC and go back to Switzerland.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5.1.12  bbl-1  replied to  Krishna @5.1.8    4 months ago

Yes, it is simple.  Hamas is nutcases.  And again, more proof that Theocratic ideals ruin government. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5.1.13  bbl-1  replied to  Krishna @5.1.9    4 months ago

Putin is lying and he knows it.  Thusly, if 'the lie' is believed by the many then that 'lie' is a success.

But I think Putin is losing.  He may lose everything.  And when he goes--------the orange one follows.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2  Kavika   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5    4 months ago

Buzz, President Zelensky is Jewish and lost family in the Holocaust.

For example, the 2020 demographic survey estimated that besides a “core” population of 43,000 Jews, around 200,000 Ukrainians are technically eligible for Israeli citizenship, meaning that they have identifiable Jewish ancestry. The European Jewish Congress says that number could be as high as 400,000.

In January 2020, during the commemoration in Israel of the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, Zelensky told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu two stories of some of his country’s bravest heroes during the war: a Crimean Muslim woman and a Catholic priest who each saved scores of Jewish children.

Then, he said, he had one more story “about a family of four brothers.

“Three of them, their parents and their families became victims of the Holocaust. All of the were shot by German occupiers who invaded Ukraine,” he said. “The fourth brother survived. … Two years after the war, he had a son, and in 31 years, he had a grandson. In 40 more years, that grandson became president, and he is standing before you today, Mr. Prime Minister.”

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
5.2.1  shona1  replied to  Kavika @5.2    4 months ago

Anoon..

And I didn't realise it appears Israel is an ally of Russia...

Be it "unconditional ally"..whatever that is meant to mean...

Putin 2016

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5.2.2  bbl-1  replied to  shona1 @5.2.1    4 months ago

At the end of World War Two, the Jewish people said that the Russians gave them life and the Americans gave them hope.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.2.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  bbl-1 @5.2.2    4 months ago

At the end of World War Two, the State of Israel did not exist.  My comment was about the UN today, and not back when Partition was passed. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5.2.4  bbl-1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.3    4 months ago

I understand all of that-------But I am not sure--or maybe I comprehend incorrectly---But it seems to me that your slant is non-committal non-intervention if an autocracy provokes and attacks a democracy with malice and false reason.  

Am I correct?  Or not?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.2.5  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  bbl-1 @5.2.4    4 months ago

You are not correct,  First of all, I do not differentiate in a situation like this between a democracy and whatever you want to call one this ISN'T the same kind of government as the USA.  What I question is whether or not there was malice or no reason.  Please note that my brain has two sides, left and right.   As well, our very first lecture when we started law school was given by the Dean.  What he told us was that if we were not ready to learn to comprehend the other side of a story and be able to argue it as well as our client's side of a story we may as well walk out that door right now and never come back.  That lesson has remained with me for the rest of my life.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
5.2.6  bbl-1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.5    4 months ago

I understand what you are saying but this is war.  An unprovoked one at that.

War is the result of failure.  Failure of the political process, rule of law and the judicial system.  War bypasses all of that.

War is not courtroom.  In war there are sides.  Choose.  Choose wisely.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.2.7  Krishna  replied to  shona1 @5.2.1    4 months ago
And I didn't realise it appears Israel is an ally of Russia...

You didn't realize it...because that isn't true. So your first impressions are correct.

(Of course various anti-Semites are spreading rumours that israel andRussia are allies).

In actuality, Russia is not particularly pro Israel or anti Israel-- they have other things on their mind. (Even in Syria)

But the problem is-- Syria (which borders Israel) is controlled by its Russian occupiers.

Russia's interest? Maintaining its control over Syria-- they're more interested in that than any issues with Israel.

Israel is surrounded by many Arab countries that wish to make Israel "Judenfrei" (Free of Jews").So some Syrian Arab terrorists  occasionally attempt to cross into Israel and massacre as many civilians as they can.

Not surprisingly,  for some time Israel has flown across the border to make airstrikes on the terrorists.

Re: Syria, Russia and Israel are focused on different things.

However the problem is that Israeli planes crossing the border to attack terrorists could well be misidentified as a threat to Russia-- and possibly even be accidentally shot down.

And vice versa.

So a while back, Israel and Russia met up. Nothing to do with similar or opposing goals-- but to work out a plan so that Israel and Russian air forces in pursuit of their own individual interests  wouldn't accidentally shoot down each others planes!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.2.8  Krishna  replied to  bbl-1 @5.2.6    4 months ago
In war there are sides.  Choose.  Choose wisely.

I'm not sure I interpret Buzz' comments the way you do.

And BTW, in a conflcit many people assume that there are two sides and you must pick one.

But there's a third possibility: for wahtever reason, a nation has a third choice-- to pick neither. Not to get involved. (Traditionally countries such as Switzerlansd and Sweden have been neutral-- they don't pick sides).

I'm not trying to defend any choices, just pointingout that there are, and have been, countries that are neutral.

(Whether or not you agree with their choice is a matter for a different discussion).

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.2.9  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  bbl-1 @5.2.6    4 months ago

For starters, it's a matter of opinion as to whether or not the war was provoked or not.  Please don't try to tell me that the USA has never gone to a war without being provoked.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2.10  Kavika   replied to  Krishna @5.2.8    4 months ago
(Traditionally countries such as Switzerland and Sweden have been neutral-- they don't pick sides).

Sweden ended its neutrality today when it stated it was sending 130,000 MREs, 5,000 combat helmets, 5,000 units of body armor, and 5,000 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine. 

Tomorrow Switzerland will vote on freezing all Russian assets. That would also take them out of the neutral group.

With the attack by Russia on Ukraine the number of neutral countries may end up being zero.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.2.11  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @5.2.7    4 months ago
"Not surprisingly, for some time Israel has flown across the border to make airstrikes on the terrorists."

What you forgot to say is that such is the case ONLY in retaliation for an attack against Israel.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.2.12  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Kavika @5.2.10    4 months ago

And so, the only country in the world remaining neutral will be Antarctica.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.2.13  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.2.12    4 months ago

Not true. The penguins have forged a alliance with the seals.

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
5.3  shona1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5    4 months ago

A lot of countries back Israel Buzz including us...always have.

Israel can look after itself very well and is more than capable of taking on Hamas or anyone else..as they have found out.

And I have been there when they were at war with Lebanon at the time... watched the helicopters flying over head while I was on the beach. Snuck a photo incase I got into trouble.

Many countries are to far away to be of any help but morally and in spirit many are there beside Israel...

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.3.1  Krishna  replied to  shona1 @5.3    4 months ago
Israel can look after itself very well

Necessity is the mother of invention.

During WWII< there was a ship carrying refugges. FDR, a notorious rascist anti-Semite, turned them away.Most p[erished. 

In addition, some Jewish leaders came to him and asked him to bomb concentration camps.

He refused.

The lessons the Jews learned is that they can't count on anyone to protect them-- so they worked long and hard doing it themselves..

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.3.2  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @5.3.1    4 months ago
The lessons the Jews learned is that they can't count on anyone to protect them-- so they worked long and hard doing it themselves..

At one point Iraq was building a nuclear reactor. Of course they claimed it was for peaceful uses. The Israelis knew better-- so they destroyed it.

There was condemnation from across the world (even from some Muslim countries who while condeming the attack were secretly greatful that israel took care of something seen as a threat to many other nations in the mid_East.

(Israel-- doing the jobs that no one else is willing to do..)

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
5.4  author  Dig  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5    4 months ago
And where were all these feelings and opinions when Hamas rains missiles on the Israelis, and are committed to the destruction of Israel in their constitution and will not stop until they can rule "Palestine" from the river to the sea?

Not the same situation, Buzz.

You don't think the US and other countries would respond if Israel was actually invaded and about to be overrun?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.4.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Dig @5.4    4 months ago

None of you has been able to deny the UN's anti-Israel bias - just count the critical resolutions compared to those condemning any other nation.  That is what I wrote about, not about America's or Australia's support. 

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
5.4.2  shona1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.4.1    4 months ago

Nope don't deny it at all..and they always will...it is almost a given with Israel...know the retric before they even start rabbiting on about it..

The UN... total waste of space ..

Throw in WHO and the Olympic committee and you have the trifecta...

None could lie straight in bed..

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.4.3  Dulay  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.4.1    4 months ago

Buzz, you are unable to deny that Israel has violated UN resolutions over and over again. I'm not saying that Israel 'deserved' every critical resolution, but it's impossible to claim that NONE of them were. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.4.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Dulay @5.4.3    4 months ago

I cannot deny that Israel has violated UN rules and expectations, no different than most nations, but not to the extreme that the UN declares and focuses on Israel and ignores the contraventions by the declared terror organization Hamas and the deliberate refusal to accept a peace deal by the Palestinians.  Hatred of Israel is world-wide (even by some in your Democrat party) and personally I put it down to be mostly good old fashioned antisemitism.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.4.5  Dulay  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.4.4    4 months ago

It's disingenuous to label opposition to some of the ACTIONS of Israel as antisemitism or 'hatred' for that matter.

Israel is a signatory to those UN 'rules and expectations' thereby agreeing to be held to a higher standard than Hamas or the Palestinians or any other non-member of the UN. Whataboutism doesn't excuse those violations. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5.4.6  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Dulay @5.4.5    4 months ago

I don't think disingenuous is what you mean, because in what way am I being deceitful?  I stated a fact.  No way can you deny that Israel has been treated differently by the UN than other members, and that is what I loath.  If anything, it is the UN that is being disingenuous.

10 Ways Israel Is Treated Differently - Aish

.
.
Indeed, astonishingly, every year, Israel is on the receiving end of more such efforts than the other 192 UN member states combined. No one can seriously argue that this is remotely

Thanks to Trump, the third reason no longer is a UNIVERSAL wrong, since there are now one or two exceptions out of 193.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.4.7  Krishna  replied to  Dig @5.4    4 months ago
You don't think the US and other countries would respond if Israel was actually invaded and about to be overrun?

If history is any guide they'd probsably issue words of condemnation...and do nothin.

But its a moot point. The israelis are smart-- and they've learned from history that they can't depend on anyone to come to their aid. (Remember who has theoil..)

So they worked long and hard to make if a losing propostion to attack them.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.4.8  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.4.1    4 months ago
None of you has been able to deny the UN's anti-Israel bias - just count the critical resolutions compared to those condemning any other nation.

True.

But OTOH, those are mere words-- Israel still exists.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.4.9  Krishna  replied to  Dulay @5.4.3    4 months ago
I'm not saying that Israel 'deserved' every critical resolution, but it's impossible to claim that NONE of them were. 

I agree. 

Unlike your country-- Israel is not perfect!

/sarc

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.4.10  Dulay  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.4.6    4 months ago
I don't think disingenuous is what you mean, because in what way am I being deceitful? 

If I meant 'deceitful', I would have said 'deceitful' Buzz. 

I stated a fact. 

You stated an opinion. 

No way can you deny that Israel has been treated differently by the UN than other members, and that is what I loath.

I have already admitted that may be true, yet it does NOT mean that the UN is anti-sematic OR expressing 'hatred'. 

If anything, it is the UN that is being disingenuous.

Yet you admit that Israel is not without culpability and Israel keeps doubling down on all too many of those violations, year after year. 

Less than half of the 10 ways you linked have anything to do with the UN. I found it interesting that the link decries the fact that the UN is governed by majority rule. I'm pretty sure that Israel has known that information from day one. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6  TᵢG    4 months ago

There is no reasoning with Putin.   Thus the only thing left is aggression (not necessarily boots on the ground).   The most significant impact on Putin would be a show of genuine solidarity by the important and relevant nations of the world.   Sending in support to defend Ukraine in terms of air power might suffice as the show of force, but the key is the solidarity behind rebuking Putin.   

At this point, however, it is likely too late to get Putin to back off.   He is now committed and MUST win this battle or else his entire plan (and legacy) is lost (in his mind).   He is not going to stop until he has a net win.   A show of solidarity and real force might bring him to the bargaining table.   But I unfortunately expect that the only likely scenario is one based primarily on military force:  by Putin being defeated militarily or conquering Ukraine.

Now, what happens if (when) he conquers Ukraine?   What now will the world do?   Will it write Ukraine off and move on with no further concerns?   I suspect that is exactly what will happen.   Short-sighted reasoning typically preempts acting for the betterment of the long-term big picture.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
6.1  author  Dig  replied to  TᵢG @6    4 months ago
What now will the world do?   Will it write Ukraine off and move on with no further concerns?   I suspect that is exactly what will happen.

I certainly hope not. Watching Zelenskyy's self-filmed "last stand" video this evening has been bothering the hell out of me. I really hope we and others do something, and in the very near future.

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
6.1.1  shona1  replied to  Dig @6.1    4 months ago

For once I wish the hackers of the world would unite and do something useful for a change..

Hack the crap out of everything they can break into in Russia... especially Putin, the Kremlin and the military...

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
6.1.2  Gsquared  replied to  Dig @6.1    4 months ago

I agree with you, Dig.  Zelenskyy is so courageous.  He is a true leader and he is becoming a historic figure.  The Ukrainian people are heroically rising to the defense of their country and their freedom.  This situation is very disturbing, totally infuriating and calls out for much, much more to be done, and done right away.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.1.3  devangelical  replied to  shona1 @6.1.1    4 months ago

the anonymous group has announced starting a hacking cyber war against russia.

 
 
 
shona1
Junior Participates
6.1.4  shona1  replied to  devangelical @6.1.3    4 months ago

Hope so..last I heard they were only hacking Russian news service and social media...

And who gives a flying fig about those.. way more important targets to home in on...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  Dig @6.1    4 months ago

I agree, but history and present circumstances do not encourage me.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
6.1.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @6.1    4 months ago

I watched a video of a Ukrainian man sending his little daughter to a safer area.  He was staying to fight. Their hearts were breaking.  I hope she didn't know the odds, but I'm sure he did.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
6.1.7  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  devangelical @6.1.3    4 months ago

They should do it but not announce it for Russia to get wind of it.  That is like a burglar contacting a home owner and telling them his plan to rob them, giving the home owner time to prepare.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
6.1.8  author  Dig  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.6    4 months ago

Looks like a lot of everyday people are answering the call.

original

original

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
6.1.9  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @6.1.8    4 months ago

Some of those kids in the bottom pic look like they ought to be studying for midterm exams.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
6.1.10  author  Dig  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.9    4 months ago

I know. I hope their courage isn't rewarded with tragedy.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
6.1.11  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.9    4 months ago

The one little girl should be enjoying being a little girl, not having her childhood destroyed.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
6.1.12  bbl-1  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.9    4 months ago

They were until the Russians came.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
6.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  TᵢG @6    4 months ago
Now, what happens if (when) he conquers Ukraine? 

My advice is insurgency. 

The Russians will have to occupy the country because if the Russian military leaves whatever puppet government they try to establish will be overthrown immediately. With that being the case, provided the Ukranians have the will, the west should fund and arm an insurgency and make that shit as painful as possible for Putin. This invasion is not very popular in Russia and will be even less so with a steady flow of body bags returning to Moscow.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
6.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  TᵢG @6    4 months ago

Based on what we are seeing so far, I do not see Ukraine going quietly into the night! I see them fighting Putin tooth and nail to the bloody end whatever that may be.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.3.1  TᵢG  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @6.3    4 months ago

Yes they are certainly nothing like Afghanistan.   It is very impressive.    How much will the decent nations of the world support them?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.4  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @6    4 months ago
Sending in support to defend Ukraine in terms of air power might suffice

In recent days. apparently several nations have been sending in significant supplies of weapons.

(Which will not end the Russian advance but rather slow it down and make it more costly for the Russians).

Despite the rantings of the media, sanctions mean little to Putin.

And ditto world opinion.

I think the only thing that might make him stop-- or at least slow down significantly-- is increasing Russian casualties.

This war was never popular with most Russians anyway. If enough of their kids return in body bags...Putin may have a problem.

(Another problem for him-- Trump did everything he could to weaken NATO. Putin was a ware of that. But as his atrocities increased, sudenly many NATO have come together..more than he expected. The oppositie of what he wanted.)

And while it might not have an immediate effect-- numerous weapons have been sent to the baltic states and other closeby NATO countries now.. another consequence of his actions)

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
7  Greg Jones    4 months ago

The Europeans have all the military hardware and manpower they need to handle this. Do they have the will?

This attack is not playing well with the Russian people, and Putin doesn't have the resources available to overcome protracted resistance by the Ukrainian people.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
7.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Greg Jones @7    4 months ago

They have the will. Problem is that Russia has the nukes! That is the wild card.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @7.1    4 months ago

I do not see Putin using nuclear weapons in this situation.   It is a net negative for him so he will not do it.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
7.1.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.1    4 months ago

So was invading Ukraine, but he did it anyway.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @7.1.2    4 months ago

If he conquers Ukraine it is net positive for him (in his view, IMO).   Seems clear to me that this was his objective.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
7.1.4  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.1    4 months ago

Based on the prevailing winds map, fallout would be west to east and that means Russia would be killing its own people. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  Dulay @7.1.4    4 months ago

There are myriad adverse side-effects of using nuclear weapons.   One that likely does cross Putin's mind is the notion of using nuclear force on people that he would have as Russian citizens and land that would be Russian.

The biggest inhibitor, likely, is the reaction of the planet to the use of nuclear force by an aggressor for greed.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
7.1.6  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.5    4 months ago

Yes, like turning a breadbasket in Europe into a wasteland, uninhabitable for generations. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
7.1.7  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.1    4 months ago
I do not see Putin using nuclear weapons in this situation.   It is a net negative for him so he will not do it

I agree.

But while its unlikely, now that putin has increased the level of Nuclear readiness-- however remote there's always a chance of an accident.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
7.1.8  Nowhere Man  replied to  Dulay @7.1.6    4 months ago
like turning a breadbasket in Europe into a wasteland, uninhabitable for generations. 

He's not threatening to use Nukes against Ukraine, he is threatening it against everyone else, His latest threat was against Sweden and Finland for joining in the Aid to Ukraine and asking NATO to accelerate their accession plan...

Putin has pretty much galvanized the entire northern hemisphere against himself and Russia... 

As a result for cutting him out of Swift, he has ordered his Nuclear forces to full alert...

Even the normally neutral Swiss have sanctioned him...

He's got no where else to turn, but either quit, surrender, or, blow it all up... Quit would destroy him as a leader, Surrender would destroy any ambition Russia has to Empire and probably drive them closer to western style government reforms...  Blow it all up? he may, in his ego driven narcissism, feel that the only way to win is to obliterate what he perceives as his enemies, which at this point turns out to be almost the whole friggen world...

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
7.1.9  Dulay  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.1.8    4 months ago
He's not threatening to use Nukes against Ukraine

I didn't say he did. I replied to TiG's assertion. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
7.2  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @7    4 months ago
The Europeans have all the military hardware and manpower they need to handle this

Well, apparently many NATO countries aren't as wise as you-- because in addition to sending arms to the Ukraine-- they are sending quite a few to NATO nations in the area!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8  Nerm_L    4 months ago

Why should we defend Ukraine?  Everyone needs to realize that 14,000 people have been killed during the war in Donbas.  The Donetsk and Luhansk regions declared their independence in 2014 following the Euromaidan insurrection.  The Ukrainian military has been trying to subdue Donetsk and Luhansk since 2014.  The US and Europe has been providing military aid to the Ukrainian government to kill the opposition in Donetsk and Luhansk.

Everyone needs to stop ignoring what has happened inside Ukraine since 2014.  The Ukrainian government isn't the victim; western Ukrainians aren't the good guys.  The Ukrainian government has been trying to do to eastern Ukraine what Turkey has been trying to do to the Kurds.

Ukraine was a founding member of the Soviet Union.  And Ukraine is still more like the Soviet Union than is being acknowledged.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.1  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @8    4 months ago

Vlad Putin could not make his case better himself.

It is total bullshit butt exactly what he would say...

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @8.1    4 months ago
Vlad Putin could not make his case better himself. It is total bullshit butt exactly what he would say...

The war in Donbas is the opposite of democracy in action.  The appropriate response would have been to position US troops on the west bank of the Dnieper River, order the Ukrainian military out of the region, and begin a democratic political process that allowed the people in the region to choose through self determination.

That's not what happened.  And it's too late to try democracy now.  Democracy wasn't given a chance.

A revolution is not democracy.  Toppling an existing government though undemocratic means does not qualify as democracy.  The hypocrisy of the United States made the case for Putin.  The United States has been providing weapons and munitions to kill the opposition in eastern Ukraine.  The United States has accepted the Ukrainian government's sham of fighting terrorists in Donbas.  Eastern Ukraine was not part of the Euromaidan insurrection and did not accept the legitimacy of the Euromaidan insurrection.

The Euromaidan insurrection established a hard line government that uses the military on its own people to subdue and eliminate opposition.  Today's Ukraine is more like the the Soviet Union than is being acknowledged.  The Obama administration blamed Russia for annexing Crimea but completely ignored the type of Ukrainian government established by revolutionary insurrection.  The United States turned a blind eye in 2014 for the exigency of domestic political pandering.

REVOLUTION!

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
8.1.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.1    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.1.3  Nerm_L  replied to  Thrawn 31 @8.1.2    4 months ago
Removed for context - sandy

[Deleted]

The United States is supplying arms and munitions without demanding reforms in Ukraine.  And that's being justified by the political narrative that Russia meddled in the 2016 election and robbed Democrats (according to liberal conspiracy theories).  But Ukrainian Nazis were meddling in the election, too.  Ukrainian Nazis have been recruiting in the United States and Europe.  And people from the United States and Europe have been traveling to Ukraine to train and fight in the war in Donbas.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
8.1.4  Thrawn 31  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.3    4 months ago
But Ukrainian Nazis were meddling in the election, too.  Ukrainian Nazis have been recruiting in the United States and Europe.  And people from the United States and Europe have been traveling to Ukraine to train and fight in the war in Donbas.

Provide the evidence of these "Ukranian Nazis" lead by a Jew., 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.1.5  Nerm_L  replied to  Thrawn 31 @8.1.4    4 months ago
Provide the evidence of these "Ukranian Nazis" lead by a Jew., 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.1.6  Nerm_L  replied to  Thrawn 31 @8.1.4    4 months ago
Provide the evidence of these "Ukranian Nazis" lead by a Jew., 

I've provided evidence in @ 8.1.5 without commentary.  Here's more evidence but I doubt this one will be accepted since it's too easy to attack the source.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
8.1.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.6    4 months ago

Nerm,

We all know that there are Nazi militia groups in Ukraine. But the vast majority of people who voted in both a Jewish president and a Jewish Vice President are not Nazis. 

And for the record, if you look here in the US, it is shocking how many Nazi militia groups there are. But are we a country of Nazis?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
8.1.8  sandy-2021492  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8.1.7    4 months ago

If we go by Nerm's reasoning, Russia could attack us, and we wouldn't have a right to complain, because we have Nazis marching with torches, too.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.1.9  Nerm_L  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8.1.7    4 months ago
We all know that there are Nazi militia groups in Ukraine. But the vast majority of people who voted in both a Jewish president and a Jewish Vice President are not Nazis.  And for the record, if you look here in the US, it is shocking how many Nazi militia groups there are. But are we a country of Nazis?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.1.10  Nerm_L  replied to  sandy-2021492 @8.1.8    4 months ago
If we go by Nerm's reasoning, Russia could attack us, and we wouldn't have a right to complain, because we have Nazis marching with torches, too.

The Azov Battalion is a government sponsored battalion in the Ukrainian national guard.  The Ukrainian government has relied on the Azov Battalion to subdue opposition in the war in Donbas.  The Azov Battalion has been training civilians to fight.

The neo-Nazis are not independent groups in Ukraine; they are recognized and sponsored by the Ukrainian government.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
8.1.11  sandy-2021492  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.10    4 months ago

And our own military and law enforcement have been shown to harbor white nationalists.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
8.1.12  bugsy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @8.1.11    4 months ago

And black nationalists

and Islamic radicals

And gang members, normally black or hispanic.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
8.1.13  sandy-2021492  replied to  bugsy @8.1.12    4 months ago

Some, yeah.  Any of which seem to be a reason, to follow Nerm's logic, that Russia should attack us, and we shouldn't expect any help.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
8.1.14  bugsy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @8.1.13    4 months ago

We won't get any help, at least not from more than a few countries that could hold their own.

Most will simply just bluster, take sides and hide in the corner...especially many countries in the EU.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
8.1.15  sandy-2021492  replied to  bugsy @8.1.14    4 months ago

That's kinda...not what I'm getting at here.

But carry on.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.1.16  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.3    4 months ago

[removed]

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
8.1.17  bbl-1  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8.1.7    4 months ago

I'll bet there are more Nazis in the US than there are in Ukraine.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
8.1.18  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.9    4 months ago

I certainly have no fear of Communism, nor any reason to fear it, and I am NOT a Communist.  

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
8.2  bbl-1  replied to  Nerm_L @8    4 months ago

BS.  You favor democracy or autocracy?  Choose.  Choose wisely.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.2.1  Nerm_L  replied to  bbl-1 @8.2    4 months ago
BS.  You favor democracy or autocracy?  Choose.  Choose wisely.

There hasn't been democracy in Ukraine.  The United States did not pursue democracy in Ukraine.  The Euromaidan revolutionary insurrection established a hard line government that uses the military on its own people to subdue opposition.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
8.2.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Nerm_L @8.2.1    4 months ago

[Deleted]

Was the Ukrainian gov perfect? Of course not, but then again neither is ours when you look at how badly a good number of people don't want Americans to vote, but it was a damn sight better than the previous Russian backed government (hence the uprising) and ANYTHING Putin will put in place. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.2.3  devangelical  replied to  bbl-1 @8.2    4 months ago

trumpsters think that's a trick question...

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.2.4  Nerm_L  replied to  Thrawn 31 @8.2.2    4 months ago
Huh, didn't realize Nerm was a Russian troll.  Was the Ukrainian gov perfect? Of course not, but then again neither is ours when you look at how badly a good number of people don't want Americans to vote, but it was a damn sight better than the previous Russian backed government (hence the uprising) and ANYTHING Putin will put in place. 

The government overthrown by the Euromaidan revolutionary insurrection was an elected government under the constitution of Ukraine.  Viktor Yanukovych was the elected President of Ukraine.    Look at the map in the link; there was a west/east divide in the 2010 election.  The candidate favored in western Ukraine lost the election.  

The Euromaidan revolutionary insurrection overthrew an elected government and established a hard line government that declared those who supported Yanukovych were terrorists.  And that hard line government used the military to subdue the opposition in eastern Ukraine.

Ukraine is NOT a European democracy.  

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
8.2.5  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Nerm_L @8.2.4    4 months ago
Ukraine is NOT a European democracy.  

It's much more of a democracy than Russia. And Viktor Yanukovych was a fucking criminal Putin puppet who was robbing the coffers and filling government positions with his underlings almost all from the Donbas region where almost half of Ukraine's economic development money was allotted.

Wouldn't it be despicable if there were Americans who were rooting for Putin or Russia and spreading Russian propaganda while defending their invasion? I would think those who defend Russia also share in the innocent blood covering their hands. I hope the rational peace loving Russians can overthrow the scum bag Putin, put him on trial for all his crimes and hang his executed corpse on a pike in St. Petersburg square.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.2.6  Nerm_L  replied to  devangelical @8.2.3    4 months ago
trumpsters think that's a trick question...

Do you support the Ukrainian Nazis or the Ukrainian Communists?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.2.7  Nerm_L  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @8.2.5    4 months ago
Wouldn't it be despicable if there were Americans who were rooting for Putin or Russia and spreading Russian propaganda while defending their invasion? I would think those who defend Russia also share in the innocent blood covering their hands. I hope the rational peace loving Russians can overthrow the scum bag Putin, put him on trial for all his crimes and hang his executed corpse on a pike in St. Petersburg square.

This is a fight between Ukrainian Nazis and Ukrainian Communists.  The United States does not need to be involved.

This is who you are rooting for:    These are the 'good guys' you are cheering simply because they are anti-Russian.

Instead of ignoring Ukraine it might be wise to look at what the Euromaidan revolutionary insurrection put in place.    Here's an excerpt from the link:

"Note: beginning in 2014, when the Maidan uprising brought a new government to Ukraine, the country has been erecting monuments to Nazi collaborators and Holocaust perpetrators at an astounding pace — there’s been a new plaque or street renaming nearly every week."

Who are you rooting for?

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
8.2.8  bbl-1  replied to  Nerm_L @8.2.1    4 months ago

'Euromaiden'?  Whatever.  I'll take 'Philly Cream Cheese' on my bagel, thank you.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
8.2.9  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Nerm_L @8.2.7    4 months ago
This is who you are rooting for

I'm rooting for Ukraine, just because they have these (below) same pieces of shit among them doesn't mean we shouldn't support their right to exist. Should we justify an attack on America simply because there are right wing white conservative Christian white nationalists and white supremacists?

Swastika%20Flag%20at%20Unite%20the%20Right.png?itok=5vwXOBw5

" These are the 'good guys' you are cheering simply because they are anti-Russian."

I'm not cheering on any white nationalists, those pieces of shit are a "volunteer battalion", they are not the government, they do not represent the majority of Ukrainians just like the worthless spineless scum bag white nationalist pieces of shit Trump supporters do not represent the majority of Americans.

Who are you rooting for?

I'm rooting for those who will put the fucking brain dead white supremacist Russian invaders in the fucking ground. You seem to be defending Putin and claiming Russia is fighting against the Nazi's in Ukraine, the reality is they ARE the fucking worthless white supremacists. Putin is just using it as an excuse to attack, he fully supports white nationalists in his own country. It's why the alt-reich conservatives here in America watch RT and love sucking Putin's ball's like the dirty little fucking treasonous dogs they are.

Dj6h87LUwAAo7IG.jpg

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
8.2.10  Thrawn 31  replied to  Nerm_L @8.2.4    4 months ago

And Ukrainian Nazis attacked Russia first right? Great Patriotic War 2?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
8.2.11  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @8.2.9    4 months ago

But it is okay for these two douche canoes to kiss the ass of Putin's boyfriend simply because he is an R.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.2.12  Texan1211  replied to  Thrawn 31 @8.2.2    4 months ago
when you look at how badly a good number of people don't want Americans to vote

Oh, gee, what lies has CNN, MSNBC, and the DNC sold you on now?

And WHY do you keep falling for them?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
8.2.13  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @8.2.12    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
user image
Freshman Silent
8.2.14    replied to  Nerm_L @8.2.4    4 months ago

Naerm=Russia.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.2.15  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @8.2.1    4 months ago
The United States did not pursue democracy in Ukraine.

True.

At least in this case we did not try to forceably impose our views on another country.

Rather we left them alone, to govern their own country!

So you are correct Nerm L (or whoever you actually are)...the Ukrainians formed their own government the way they chose- - and they choose Democracy rather that Puttanescan Autocracy!

REVOLUTION??

Nope mon petit choux.. the appropriate word would be...

PASTA FAZOULE!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.2.16  Nerm_L  replied to  Krishna @8.2.15    4 months ago
At least in this case we did not try to forceably impose our views on another country.

Joe Biden only threatened to withhold boatloads of money if Ukraine didn't do what the United States and Europe wanted.  Biden thinks money is a weapon.  That's why Biden has been relying on sanctions.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.3  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @8    4 months ago

original

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.3.1  Krishna  replied to  JBB @8.3    4 months ago

What Rabbit will Putin attempt to pull out of a hat next?

My guess?

His next feat will be to claim he can see parts of the Ukraine from his front Porch!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
8.3.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  JBB @8.3    4 months ago

Let's hope Putie does not remember that.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
8.4  Thrawn 31  replied to  Nerm_L @8    4 months ago
The Donetsk and Luhansk regions declared their independence in 2014 following the Euromaidan insurrection. 

Wow, you left A LOT out in that statement. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
8.4.1  Split Personality  replied to  Thrawn 31 @8.4    4 months ago

SOP for many...

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.5  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @8    4 months ago
Why should we defend Ukraine? 

WTF-- have you stopped watching Fox News?
Because up until quite recently, that was the POV they were pushing on their groupies-- "its not our war"..etc. etc.

But in the last two days or so, as the world has become more aware of Putins atrocities-- the Fox News party  line has changed!

Now they are moving towards a more pro-Ukraine position (or at least a more neutral one).

I have to confess- I was amazed the last time I watched Fox.

Maybe its time to "get with the programme" Nerm L? jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
arkpdx
PhD Participates
8.6  arkpdx  replied to  Nerm_L @8    4 months ago
Everyone needs to stop ignoring what has happened inside Ukraine since 2014 

You mean things like Selenskyy being democratically elected to Ukraine's highest office be a democratic election with 70 percent of the vote?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
8.7  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Nerm_L @8    4 months ago

So you have zero problem ignoring the average innocent civilians and children being wantonly killed by the invading Russians on the orders of that psychopath Putin? Pretty cold and callous there Nerm.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.7.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @8.7    4 months ago
So you have zero problem ignoring the average innocent civilians and children being wantonly killed by the invading Russians on the orders of that psychopath Putin? Pretty cold and callous there Nerm.

14,000 have been killed during the war in Donbas.  It's a little late to be shedding tears.

Defense industries are a major component of the Ukrainian economy.  Ukraine supplied arms to most of those we have been fighting in the Middle East.  Do a little research on UkrOboronProm.  Ukraine even manufactured nuclear weapons for Russia.  What do you think Chernobyl was used for?

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
8.7.2  pat wilson  replied to  Nerm_L @8.7.1    4 months ago
14,000 have been killed during the war in Donbas.  

Since 2014.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
8.7.3  Nerm_L  replied to  pat wilson @8.7.2    4 months ago
Since 2014

And eight years makes 14,000 killed in a political war OK?  It's still a little late to be shedding tears.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
8.7.4  pat wilson  replied to  Nerm_L @8.7.3    4 months ago

All wars are political and no, no killings are okay, obviously.

But your omission of "since 2014" is curious.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
8.7.5  pat wilson  replied to  pat wilson @8.7.4    4 months ago

Sorry Dig for the off topic posts.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
8.7.6  author  Dig  replied to  pat wilson @8.7.5    4 months ago

Don't be. It hadn't even occurred to me. Pretty much anything to do with Ukraine at the moment is on topic as far as I'm concerned.

I can't figure out how anyone witnessing this atrocity can be on Putin's side.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
8.7.7  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Dig @8.7.6    4 months ago

If Trump is for it and he is, so are his sheeple.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Expert
9  Hal A. Lujah    4 months ago

Putin seems to be becoming more and more unstable.  There’s a lot of talk here about using both traditional and asymmetric warfare to defeat him, but what if he is truly as mad as he seems?  He puts no value on human life and just wants what he wants and will do anything and say anything to get it, no matter how outrageous.  The one thing nobody has mentioned thus far is nukes. Mutually assured destruction is only a deterrent to a sane leader.  If he feels his options at this stage are with to win or to die trying, what would a madman care if the rest of humanity died with him?  At that point humanity’s only hope is that he is stopped internally by those around him who have not reached that level of insane nihilistic pride.  If Hitler would have had nukes he wouldn’t have thought twice about going out like that before eating a bullet.  

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
9.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9    4 months ago

Nukes are the main reason NATO isn't taking direct action. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
9.1.1  bbl-1  replied to  Thrawn 31 @9.1    4 months ago

I disagree.  If Putin gave the order to use nuclear weapons, I am extremely confident that the Russian Military Command would remove him----even if it had to kill him and his immediate staff.  The Russians are not that stupid.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
9.1.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  bbl-1 @9.1.1    4 months ago

I mean the reason NATO isn't going to take any direct action unless attacked is because the risk of a miscalculation or an escalation is too great. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
9.1.3  bbl-1  replied to  Thrawn 31 @9.1.2    4 months ago

No.  The US Command or the Russian Command will not use nuclear weapons.  

I personally believe Putin made a grave miscalculation.  I believe he thought his support in the US would be much larger.  

Putin also should not have permitted Trump to get close to him.  He should have read Rick Wilson's book, "Everything Trump touches, dies."  Might have saved him a lot of angst.  I predict that Trump is going to go down and the landing will be hard.  The possibility of Putin losing his grip and support is also increasing.  I suspect Putin's INTEL incorrectly told him that Trump is more popular, influential and in control than the reality is.

When Trump has to testify under oath for any of a myriad of things approaching, the house of glass will shatter, and the rats will scramble for the exits.  And then the lonely man will be truly alone.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
9.1.4  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  bbl-1 @9.1.3    4 months ago
No.  The US Command or the Russian Command will not use nuclear weapons. 
 You hope .
what it will eventually come down to is not only If they are used , but who does so first, i saw a post by a russian national , state whoever strikes first wins , i had to correct him that thats not true , because a first strike will get a retalitory strike , and likely after that there will be no more strikes and everyone loses , its game over from that point on.
 the cooler heads that are right now not mentioning their use is the side i would say would fare better.
 Putin put his cards on the table so to speak , no one else has yet but everyone is sure whats being held and by whom .

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
9.1.5  Nowhere Man  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @9.1.4    4 months ago

Putin is using the Nuclear threat like a bluff in Bridge... Problem is two fold...

1. the more and more it looks like he is going to fail in converting Ukraine to Russian dominance, he will be forced back to his declared weapon of last resort....

2. in his megalomaniacal mind, he is slowly convincing himself of the justification for the use of nuclear weapons... And his blame isn't being focused on Ukraine... It is being focused on NATO, the EU, and those nations supporting them...

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
9.1.6  Sean Treacy  replied to  Nowhere Man @9.1.5    4 months ago

. It is being focused on NATO, the EU, and those nations supporting them...

It's always dangerous to back a psychopath into a corner.  

Last week, I think the fear was that Ukraine is a domino and the next to fall would be a Baltic Republic. After the performance and exposure of the Russian Army this week, I think that's off the table. Russia is going to have it's hands full just getting to some place where it can declare "victory" in Ukraine. I think the concern is now what Putin will do to ensure that he can declare victory or how he will lash out if he thinks winning Ukraine is beyond his capabilities. 

The worse things go in Ukraine for Putin, the more dangerous it may get for the world, absent a Russian patriot ridding the world of Putin. 

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
9.1.7  Nowhere Man  replied to  Sean Treacy @9.1.6    4 months ago
absent a Russian patriot ridding the world of Putin. 

It is my fervent hope that a saner mind will step up in Russia...

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
9.1.8  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @9.1.6    4 months ago
The worse things go in Ukraine for Putin, the more dangerous it may get for the world, absent a Russian patriot ridding the world of Putin. 

It got a lot worse today for Putin. Sweden stated that they will be sending 130,000 MREs, 5,000 combat helmets, 5,000 units of body armor, and 5,000 anti-tank weapons.

The EU just announced that they will be supporting Ukraine with another $500 million.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
9.1.9  Nowhere Man  replied to  Kavika @9.1.8    4 months ago
It got a lot worse today for Putin. Sweden stated that they will be sending 130,000 MREs, 5,000 combat helmets, 5,000 units of body armor, and 5,000 anti-tank weapons.

That's the reason he threatened them with nuclear retaliation... (and requesting that NATO accelerate their accession plans)

The EU just announced that they will be supporting Ukraine with another $500 million.

That's from the EU's slush fund... I've heard word that the EU is deciding if the 2.5 billion euro Ukrainian accession fund should be tapped to support them now...

There's no question now if Ukraine will join both NATO and the EU once this invasion is over...

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
9.1.10  Split Personality  replied to  Kavika @9.1.8    4 months ago

The UN and Nato need to respond

The UN should throw the bums out first even if it just uses the technicalities pointed out by the Ukrainian Minister. 

Much better than the obvious lies of Putin.

The Crimean Bridge should disappear one night soon.

Hit Crimea with ballistic missiles from the Black Sea.

Cut off and crush Kalinsgrad.

The minute troops from Belarus or Chechnya show up, bomb those countries too

Fucking grant Sweden, Finland and Ukraine instant NATO status/

Maybe all on the same day.

See if Putin's head explodes.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
9.1.11  Nowhere Man  replied to  Split Personality @9.1.10    4 months ago
See if Putin's head explodes.

He'll start to reach for the red button, and some bemedaled Field Marshall, a hero of the old Soviet Union, pulls his pistol and puts a bullet in his brain...

and up comes the music, and the curtain closes....

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
9.1.12  Split Personality  replied to  Nowhere Man @9.1.11    4 months ago

See any of the "meeting" he had with his cabinet members or military "advisers"?

He sits 30 to 60 feet away from everyone else in the room.

They probably aren't allowed to have weapons any where near him.

We can always hope he has a stroke instead

and they just leave him where he falls....

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
9.1.13  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  bbl-1 @9.1.1    4 months ago

Putin has put his nuclear program on high alert.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
9.1.14  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  bbl-1 @9.1.1    4 months ago

I would hope that the personnel who can launch would tell Putin to f himself and walk out after disabling whatever equipment is needed to launch.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
9.2  author  Dig  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9    4 months ago
 The one thing nobody has mentioned thus far is nukes.

I've seen a few people talking about it. As someone said after Putin felt he needed to remind everyone that Russia is a nuclear power (can't remember who), it costs Putin nothing to make threats about nuclear weapons, but actually using them would cost him everything.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
9.2.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Dig @9.2    4 months ago

Using a nuke is a suicide note.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
9.2.2  Nowhere Man  replied to  Thrawn 31 @9.2.1    4 months ago
Using a nuke is a suicide note.

Not a note, a demand, a sorta kinda suicide by cop so to speak...

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
9.3  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9    4 months ago

From Obama's ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul.

"The people who know Putin the best -- people I know in Russia -- are worried about his recent nuclear statement. The people who know him the least are saying it's cheap talk."

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10  Kavika     4 months ago

The US offered to evacuate President Zelensky and his reply was, ''The fight is here, I need ammo, not a ride.''

I can't say enough about the courage of the Ukrainian military/people and their leadership.

The Ukrainians are fighting in the streets of Kyiv. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
11  Thrawn 31    4 months ago
Why can't the world go to Ukraine's aid — physically, militarily?

Nukes. That is more or less the primary reason. Second to that is I don't think Americans have the stomach for a major protracted war against a modern military like the Russian military right now. We just came off 20 years of war, the country needs a break.

Would we beat the Russians? Of course. Do we want to incur those costs? Not really. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
11.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Thrawn 31 @11    4 months ago
Nukes. That is more or less the primary reason.

Agreed.  I know that Russia using nukes against us would just result in us nuking them, but we'd all be just as dead.  And I'm not sure Putin is mentally stable enough not to order the use of nuclear weapons.  Mutually assured destruction might actually be an acceptable risk to him.  If he does order it, his own military has pretty much shown us that they will not stop him.

And yeah, we've lost a lot of young men and women fighting other countries' wars for decades.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
11.1.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  sandy-2021492 @11.1    4 months ago

Don't forget that Russia still has the Soviet era "Dead Hand" nuclear option system still in operational use that will automatically trigger a nuclear response from Russia.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
11.1.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @11.1.1    4 months ago

I honestly wasn't sure if that was the case or not.  And given that nobody in a position of power in his own country seems to have the balls to stand up to him, I figured it was irrelevant, anyway.  They'll go where he steers them, even if it's into disaster.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
11.1.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  sandy-2021492 @11.1.2    4 months ago

I wouldn't be so sure of that. IMO Putin was betting that he would be able to declare that Kyiv was back under proper control, resistance was limit to nonexistant, and the Russian army would be coming home by now. 

The war was never very popular in Russia, and the longer it goes on and the more body bags go home, the harder it gets for Putin.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
11.1.4  Krishna  replied to  sandy-2021492 @11.1    4 months ago

Agreed.  I know that Russia using nukes against us would just result in us nuking them, but we'd all be just as dead.  And I'm not sure Putin is mentally stable enough not to order the use of nuclear weapons.  Mutually assured destruction might actually be an acceptable risk to him.  If he does order it, his own military has pretty much shown us that they will not stop him.

And yet, some people on this very site have been arguing that it would be unethical to take him out.

(Mock me all you wish-- but I'm 100% in favour of a sucessful targeted assassination.)

Difficult times call for extreme measures.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
11.1.5  Krishna  replied to  Thrawn 31 @11.1.3    4 months ago

The war was never very popular in Russia, and the longer it goes on and the more body bags go home, the harder it gets for Putin.

I totally agree.

In fact (unfortunately)  that may the only thing that gets him to stop.

That-- or a targeted assassination.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
11.1.6  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Krishna @11.1.5    4 months ago

No body bags. Putin has portable crematorias in Ukraine with his troops so the Russian populace will see no dead bodies being sent back home!

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
12  Moose Knuckle    4 months ago

The World Should Physically Intervene In Ukraine?

We are not in a position to intervene, 20 year of war based on lies and disinformation. The Ukrainian conflict is much more complicated than most realize.

I certainly don't want to support these fascists. NBC was fawning over them and completely missed the obvious.

Oliver Stone has a worthy documentary on Ukraine put out in 2016. I had no Idea the country had such a history with white Nationalism. Our CIA resettled Ukrainian Nazis after WWI in the US and continued to support White Nationalism for the next 80 years in the country because they disliked the Soviets and Russians.

Dig in a little, it's hard find a reason to get involved in this conflict.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
12.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Moose Knuckle @12    4 months ago

Why exactly do you consider the Ukranian government to be fascists? I mean aside from parroting Russian propaganda. 

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
12.1.1  Moose Knuckle  replied to  Thrawn 31 @12.1    4 months ago

I don't think the current government are fascists, but the militias fighting for Ukraine right now absolutely are. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
12.1.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Thrawn 31 @12.1    4 months ago

Oh geeze, not the F word again. jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif   Some need to stop reading MTG's playbook.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
12.1.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Moose Knuckle @12.1.1    4 months ago
but the militias fighting for Ukraine right now absolutely are. 

Based on.....?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
12.1.4  Krishna  replied to  Moose Knuckle @12.1.1    4 months ago
but the militias fighting for Ukraine right now absolutely are.

And you know this how?

(Other then the obvious fact that you are so much smarter than the rest of us here...?)

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
12.2  Krishna  replied to  Moose Knuckle @12    4 months ago

Oliver Stone has a worthy documentary on Ukraine put out in 2016. I had no Idea the country had such a history with white Nationalism.

Correct.

In fact, that's why I'm so grateful to live in the U.S.-- where we are lucky enough not to have had such a history of White nationalism!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
12.3  Krishna  replied to  Moose Knuckle @12    4 months ago
continued to support White Nationalism for the next 80 years in the country because they disliked the Soviets and Russians.

Pssst... Moose Knuckle... the Soviets and the Russians are White!

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
13  Tacos!    4 months ago
When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, many nations (not just the USA) intervened militarily and expelled them, and it wasn't about NATO.

Yeah, well, Iraq wasn’t sitting on the largest collection of nuclear weapons in the world. Is Ukrainian sovereignty worth killing millions and irradiating the planet? Most would say “no.”

they've been pleading for more help on almost every news camera they can find. I say the world should give it to them, pronto.

Go for it! Hop on a plane. Find a weapon, and go stand in the way of advancing tanks and missile strikes. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
13.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Tacos! @13    4 months ago

im reminded that iraq after the first gulf was an entirely different set of circumstances than what we see going on right now in ukraine, what semi worked there wont work in this case because of the very glaring differences .

 As for Putin , i view him as a very cold and calculating gambler that wont put his money on the table unless it is a sure thing after reading the table . and right now i think he has read the table and can say what will happen with some confidence he is correct  i know thats simplifying , but it fits .

i would ask that people remember i was in service at what was "suppose " to be the end of the "cold war era" . and IMO what i am seeing happening now is someone relite the pilot light and is turning up the fuel .

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
13.2  Kavika   replied to  Tacos! @13    4 months ago

A number of countries are sending weapons to the Ukrainians including the US, Germany, Poland, and others. 

Hopefully, there will be more countries added to those sending arms. The more Russian blood that the Ukrainians bleed from the Russians the deeper hole it will put Putin in. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
13.2.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Kavika @13.2    4 months ago

In a move never imagined, Swiz banks are freezing Russian assets.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
13.2.2  Kavika   replied to  Paula Bartholomew @13.2.1    4 months ago

Yes, they are and that is amazing.

Today Turkey has envoked the treaty of 1936 and will not allow Russian warships into the Black Sea unless that is their home base. That is also stunning.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
13.2.3  Nowhere Man  replied to  Kavika @13.2.2    4 months ago

The international response to this has been over the top to say the least...

The whole darned world is looking at Russia as a pariah nation... They have no where to turn, their only options at this point surrender and withdraw, or suicide by them blowing up the world with themselves as the primary target......

I'm 100% sure this is not what Putin envisioned as the results of his "Special" mission...

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
13.2.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Kavika @13.2.2    4 months ago

When the most neutral country in the world gets involved, you know that this is serious.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
13.3  Krishna  replied to  Tacos! @13    4 months ago
they've been pleading for more help on almost every news camera they can find. I say the world should give it to them, pronto.
Go for it! Hop on a plane. Find a weapon, and go stand in the way of advancing tanks and missile strikes. 

This might perhaps come as a total shock to you (?).

But there are other ways America can support them (Other then send our kids there on a suicide mission).

Seriously...

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
13.3.1  Tacos!  replied to  Krishna @13.3    4 months ago
This might perhaps come as a total shock to you (?).

But there are other ways America can support them (Other then send our kids there on a suicide mission).

Seriously...

I’m responding to the seed. I’m not the one demanding we intervene “physically” in Ukraine, ya know? The seeder made the comparison to the first Gulf War, when we put boots on the ground. Don’t blame me for taking the author at his word.

Seriously.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
13.3.2  Tacos!  replied to  Krishna @13.3    4 months ago

Same member just posted a seed about how individuals can go to Ukraine and personally fight for the cause, so I don’t think I misinterpreted or exaggerated anything here.

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
14  Moose Knuckle    4 months ago

Right now our plan is working!

384

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
15  Kavika     4 months ago

IMO, Putin is trying to re-establish the Russian Empire. Look at his history, first, it was Georgia and Russia still controls 20% of Georgia. Next, it was Crimea and now the rest of Ukraine. He will do anything to keep the Empire together (Chechnya) and expand back to what it was or perhaps beyond. He wants to be seen as the person that returned Russia to its old glory. 

He has now threatened Sweden and Finland. 

If he gets away with taking Ukraine who is next? The rest of Georgia, Moldovia, the Baltic countries? Or will it end up in another proxie war between the US and Russia? 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
15.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Kavika @15    4 months ago
If he gets away with taking Ukraine who is next?

And that is why this is intolerable. He most certainly wants to make himself the modern Catherine the Great by rebuilding her empire, and he wants to do it at the expense of democratic governments, and normal diplomatic processes. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
15.2  Kavika   replied to  Kavika @15    4 months ago

Seems that Sweden takes it back to Russia after the threat by Russia. 

Today the Swedish government announced that they are sending to the Ukraine 130,000 mre's, 5,000 combat helmets, 5,000 body armor and 5,000 anti tank weapons.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
15.2.1  author  Dig  replied to  Kavika @15.2    4 months ago
5,000 anti tank weapons.

Yowza! 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
15.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Kavika @15    4 months ago

Two words for Putin.....Czar Nicholas.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
15.3.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @15.3    4 months ago
Two words for Putin.....Czar Nicholas.

{chuckle} Pardon me sweets..... Wannabe Tsar Nicholas....

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
16  Nowhere Man    4 months ago

Everyone should understand something..

WE, the US, YES the United States of America...

Are not going to get into this war in any way shape or form, (except for supplies and equipment) NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND!!!

until...

WE, OR ANY NATO ALLY ARE DIRECTLY ATTACKED....

And we shouldn't, it is not our way...

But if they do such, then we should enter it with both feet, and put the remains of the old soviet system in a very deep grave...

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
16.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Nowhere Man @16    4 months ago

Pretty much. Provide the Ukranians weapons and funding, sanction the shit out of Russia and make them hurt as much as possible, but other than that we need to stand by. But yes, if the Russians attack a NATO ally, even accidently then we need to hit hard and fast and be prepared to put an end to the current Russian government. No half assing it.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
16.2  Krishna  replied to  Nowhere Man @16    4 months ago
Are not going to get into this war in any way shape or form, (except for supplies and equipment) NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND!!!

No one is saying that we should put boots on the ground.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
16.2.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Krishna @16.2    4 months ago

well boots are already on the ground from GB to poland , italy to denmark and places we may never have heard of .

you have heard of bitburg , ramstein , aviano , mindenhall?  and a slew of others , all places where US boots are on the ground .

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
16.2.2  Krishna  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @16.2.1    4 months ago
well boots are already on the ground from GB to poland , italy to denmark and places we may never have heard of . you have heard of bitburg , ramstein , aviano , mindenhall?  and a slew of others , all places where US boots are on the ground .

And what about military bases in the U.S.--plenty of American boots on the ground there!

(But you already knew that jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png )

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
16.2.3  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Krishna @16.2.2    4 months ago

laugh if you want , but we know some have already been deployed and more are being readied to be sent .

 to think otherwise is playing blind deaf and dumb.

 i only mentioned USAF bases in Europe , never mentioned army installations , so add those to the list already on the ground within distance to deploy rapidly ..

they use to use Pattons response time from when notified to re enforce bastone  from where he was in France at the time , as a benchmark during exersizes , for getting both men and material from one place to another . as far as i know, his record still stands for amount of both equipment and personel moved the greatest distance on the ground . and he did that during the worst winter weather conditions that area of europe had experienced in over 50 years .

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
16.2.4  author  Dig  replied to  Krishna @16.2    4 months ago
No one is saying that we should put boots on the ground.

Actually, I am. But maybe that's just me. It's not Russian soil.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
16.2.5  Kavika   replied to  Mark in Wyoming @16.2.3    4 months ago

1/503 of the 173rd Airborne is now in Latvia. Part of the 1/87 10th Mountain is in Poland now.

The 82nd Airborne is there as well, not sure what country but I believe some are in Poland.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
16.3  Split Personality  replied to  Nowhere Man @16    4 months ago

"we" entered WWII  in Europe well before we declared war.

There were three Eagle Squadrons of American pilots and air crews flying in the RAF for months before the USA entered the war.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
16.3.1  JBB  replied to  Split Personality @16.3    4 months ago

My Uncle was in England training RAF pilots on Pearl Harbor Day...

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
16.3.2  Nowhere Man  replied to  Split Personality @16.3    4 months ago

Yes, as volunteer members of the RAF, mostly officers, (who resigned their commissions) discharged enlisted and civilian pilots..

There was also the AVG in China fighting the Japanese...

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
16.3.3  Split Personality  replied to  Nowhere Man @16.3.2    4 months ago

My Uncle was ground crew for the AVG, enlisted volunteers for AMMISCA.

Interesting tattoos mapped out his career in the US Army.

One tough SOB.

Also returned to CONUS with a small bag of colored stones, most of which were actually precious jewels

that he bought for pennies in Burma & China.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
17  Paula Bartholomew    4 months ago

I found out today that Putin is battling cancer and Parkinsons.  The sooner this mofo dies, the better off the world will be.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
17.1  bbl-1  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @17    4 months ago

Or----is it a cover story so he can walk away with his billion$ and avoid any consequence?

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Participates
17.2  MonsterMash  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @17    4 months ago
I found out today that Putin is battling cancer and Parkinsons.  The sooner this mofo dies, the better off the world will be.

Putin will use his nukes before he dies in hopes Russia will rule the world  and he will be King of the World for at least a little while.

IMO a nuclear holocaust will take place within 6 months.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
17.2.1  Krishna  replied to  MonsterMash @17.2    4 months ago
Putin will use his nukes before he dies in hopes Russia will rule the world  and he will be King of the World for at least a little while. IMO a nuclear holocaust will take place within 6 months.

What a the very least that will kill many, many Russians!

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Participates
17.2.2  MonsterMash  replied to  Krishna @17.2.1    4 months ago
What a the very least that will kill many, many Russians!

Do you seriously think Putin gives a damn about the ordinary Russian citizen? He'll be safe and secure in his bunker, the Russian everyday citizen is just collateral damage to him, they must die for the good of Mother Russia. 

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
18  author  Dig    4 months ago

More inspirational courage.

Click the link – I can shoot. I am not afraid. I want to fight.

original

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
18.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Dig @18    4 months ago

I hope she gets to raise her children in her home, in peace.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
18.2  Krishna  replied to  Dig @18    4 months ago
I can shoot. I am not afraid. I want to fight.

I clicked on the link. 

And yet-- there are actually people on NT who think people like her are Nazis.(or some other form of White Supremicist!

WTF???

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
19  sandy-2021492    4 months ago

I saw a report that Ukrainian hospitals are running dangerously low on oxygen.

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
19.1  author  Dig  replied to  sandy-2021492 @19    4 months ago

I imagine they'll be running low on everything soon. Time to add hospital supplies to the things being sent in from the western border.

Earlier I saw a clip of sick kids from a children's hospital being moved into a basement for shelter from the attack on Kharkiv in the east.  A nurse was saying, "This is our home now, this is where we live."

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
19.2  Nowhere Man  replied to  sandy-2021492 @19    4 months ago
I saw a report that Ukrainian hospitals are running dangerously low on oxygen.

It will get a lot worse before it gets better...

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
20  sandy-2021492    4 months ago

As Russia fails to inflict quick defeat upon Ukraine after four days of fierce hostilities, Vladimir Putin is about to pull his Belarusian ally, dictator Aleksandr Lukashenko into his war of occupation.  Amid many speculations, multiple sources say the decision has been made — and as soon as on Feb. 28 at 5 a.m. local time, the first Ilyushin Il-76 transport aircraft is very likely to take off carrying Belarusian paratroopers to be deployed against Ukraine.
 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
20.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  sandy-2021492 @20    4 months ago
and as soon as on Feb. 28 at 5 a.m. local time, the first Ilyushin Il-76 transport aircraft is very likely to take off carrying Belarusian paratroopers to be deployed against Ukraine.

Why do you think there is a rush to get as many stinger missiles into the Ukraine as possible...

 
 
 
Dig
PhD Guide
21  author  Dig    4 months ago

Here's a quick thought to mull over...

We don't know if physical, military intervention is in fact being considered as a non-publicly disclosed option by any of the powers in Europe or elsewhere, even if only in the form of air power. But if it is, then it needs to happen SOON.

The vast majority of Putin's forces are still in the field, with many of his tanks and other vehicles lined up nicely on highways like ducks in a row. Right now the countryside is a target rich environment, and if we're smart, then those targets should be destroyed now, before they can amass and ultimately overwhelm the major cities. Once his forces are entrenched in the cities they will be much harder to destroy without causing severe damage to the cities themselves, not to mention the greatly increased chance of incurring civilian casualties in the process.

Just something to consider.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
22  Paula Bartholomew    4 months ago

This just on the news....major sports organizations are baring Russian athletes from competitions.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
22.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @22    4 months ago

Yeah it was reported about 8 hrs ago on CBS radio news.... I posted it in the other article..

I've also heard on CBS radio today that almost all the international sports organizations and federations, (including FIFA) have booted, suspended or banned Russian participation, just waiting on two more, the international tennis federations and the international Ice Hockey League...

They are really being cut off from anything and everything...

 
 

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