Griner swap wasn't what US hoped for, but what it could get | AP News

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  perrie-halpern  •  2 months ago  •  432 comments

By:   ERIC TUCKER (AP NEWS)

Griner swap wasn't what US hoped for, but what it could get | AP News
WASHINGTON (AP) — Secretary of State Antony Blinken's surprise announcement last July lacked any detail, but its meaning was crystal clear. In a rare comment on secret talks, he said the Biden administration had made a "substantial proposal" to Russia to end the imprisonment of two Americans: WNBA star Brittney Griner and Paul Whelan.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



WASHINGTON (AP) — Secretary of State Antony Blinken's surprise announcement last July lacked any detail, but its meaning was crystal clear.

In a rare comment on secret talks, he said the Biden administration had made a "substantial proposal" to Russia to end the imprisonment of two Americans: WNBA star Brittney Griner and Paul Whelan.

The message was plain, for those closely following the cases:

To get Griner and Whelan home, the U.S. would agree to the release of Viktor Bout, an imprisoned Russian arms dealer with the ominous nickname of "the Merchant of Death." The Russians had made no secret of their desire to get Bout home.

On Thursday, Bout and Griner began their journeys home after a dramatic one-for-one swap. Yet Whelan remains imprisoned in Russia. The deal wasn't all that U.S. officials had wanted. But after months of difficult private negotiations and angry public accusations, it was, they concluded, the best they could get.

It came together in the past few days after the administration grudgingly accepted that though the Russians would not budge on Whelan, they were prepared to relent on Griner, creating imperfect but ultimately workable options for a U.S. government under pressure to make a deal.

"This was not a choice for us on which American to bring home. It was a choice between bringing home one American or none," said White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre.

Whelan, a Michigan corporate security executive who had regularly traveled to Russia, was arrested in December 2018 while visiting Moscow for a friend's wedding. He was convicted of espionage charges that he and the U.S. government say are baseless and is serving a 16-year prison sentence.

"For totally illegitimate reasons, Russia is treating Paul's case differently than Brittney's, and while we have not succeeded in securing Paul's release, we are not giving up," Biden said Thursday.

Griner's arrest in February on drug possession charges made her instantaneously the most high-profile American jailed abroad. Her status as a gay Black woman, her prominence in women's basketball and her imprisonment at a time of war combined for an unusual confluence of storylines in sports, politics and diplomacy.

For weeks, the focus seemed to center on legal aspects of the case and questions of her guilt or innocence. But that changed in May after the U.S. designated her a wrongful detainee, a move that placed her case with the government's top hostage negotiator and came just after a separate prisoner swap between the U.S. and Russia.

Griner's guilty plea last summer and nine-year prison sentence made it clear her best hope for release was through a prisoner swap. Blinken's public reveal of a "substantial proposal" created speculation of who beyond Bout, a notorious arms dealer serving a 25-year sentence, the U.S. might be willing to release in a two-for-two exchange — and who else Russia might want.

Lawyers for Alexander Vinnik, an accused Russian cryptocurrency launderer recently extradited to California, advanced his client's name to officials in Russia and the U.S., but he was ultimately left out of Thursday's deal.

"We think that he is a good candidate, remains a good candidate," said one of Vinnik's lawyers, David Rizk. "He's somebody that both sides have a lot of interest in, and he's also somebody who hasn't killed anybody. He hasn't committed any violent crime."

A senior administration official, briefing reporters on condition of anonymity under ground rules set by the White House, said Thursday that the U.S. "explored a wide range of alternatives and permutations that we felt were, frankly, quite generous in resolving both cases." The official did not elaborate.

Throughout the fall, there were few signs of progress, with U.S. officials repeatedly saying that Russia had yet to respond in good faith to their offer. Blinken spoke by phone to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in July in the highest-level known contact between the two sides since Russia invaded Ukraine, but Russian officials gave no hint that headway had been made.

As U.S. officials talked directly with Russian counterparts, Bill Richardson, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, and top deputy Mickey Bergman held backchannel discussions in Russia and other countries with their own contacts to try to find middle ground.

"We were aiming, working together, for a two-for-two but I think the geopolitical situation prevented us from doing the two-for-two - in other words, the increasingly hostile relationship" between the countries, Richardson said in an interview.

Back in Washington, officials were repeatedly stressing the extent to which the U.S. viewed the cases of Griner and Whelan through the same lens and with the same urgency. In September, Biden hosted Griner's wife, Cherelle, and Whelan's sister, Elizabeth, for separate meetings at the White House.

But the reality, administration officials now say, is that Russia viewed Whelan's case differently, with one official saying Moscow "put him through sham proceedings that convicted him of trumped-up espionage charges." Russia, the official said, had "rejected each and every one of our proposals for his release."

A potential thaw for Griner was evident in recent weeks. Biden told reporters after the midterm U.S. elections that he was hopeful Russia would now be more willing to negotiate her release. A Russian official said last week a deal was possible by the end of the year.

Progress escalated this week. Cherelle Griner was invited to the White House for a meeting with national security adviser Jake Sullivan, and she was with Biden Thursday morning when he was notified Griner was secure.

Brittney Griner was put through to the Oval Office and Biden said, "It's Joe Biden. Welcome, welcome home!" one official said of the conversation.

In anticipation of the transfer, Griner was relocated from the Russian penal colony where she arrived last month and was flown to the United Arab Emirates for the transfer. Arriving there, too, was Bout, who was not presented with his official clemency paperwork until U.S. officials knew Griner was also present.

The deal brought a joyful end to an agonizing wait for Cherelle Griner, who in June told The Associated Press how a phone mixup by the U.S. government left her unable to connect with her wife on the couple's four-year wedding anniversary. Just two months ago she said her wife was at her "absolute weakest moment in life right now."

The final outcome was less joyful for the Whelan family, though they said they supported the administration's action. Elizabeth Whelan was visited in Massachusetts by a U.S. official bearing the news. Paul Whelan himself was also briefed by the administration.

"To realize now that not only didn't it include him, but also that there may not be any other things that the U.S. currently has control over that could bring Paul home — that's a new thing to be thinking about," brother David Whelan said in an interview.

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dennissmith
Freshman Silent
1  dennissmith    2 months ago

Putin got what he wanted and Biden did not get what he wanted. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.1  Ronin2  replied to  dennissmith @1    2 months ago

Brandon got what he wanted. The woke morons are happy and calling this a victory.

Whelan doesn't matter in Brandon's world. Play lip service to getting him home; and go back to doing nothing for him.

In reality the world is bracing for the impact the Merchant of Death will have now that he is free.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.1.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ronin2 @1.1    2 months ago

In reality the world is bracing for the impact the Merchant of Death will have now that he is free.

ROFL!!  Yes, we are all quaking in our boots now that the only known “merchant of death” on the planet is free a few years early.  We are all DOOMED!!  I’m sorry that you are so deflated by the freeing of a gay, black, female American imprisoned on the extremely serious charge of possession of a minuscule amount of therapeutic marijuana extract.  Cheer up though, maybe another gay club will get shot up soon to raise your spirits.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.1.2  Ronin2  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.1    2 months ago
Yes, we are all quaking in our boots now that the only known “merchant of death” on the planet is free a few years early. We are all DOOMED!!

He was extradited to the U.S. in 2010 after two years of legal proceedings and convicted on terrorism charges a year later.  

Bout was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Now 55 years old, he had not been due to be released until August 2029, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons website. 

"They will try to lock me up for life," Bout told The New Yorker before his sentencing. "But I'll get back to Russia. I don't know when. But I'm still young." 

So, 7 years is a "few years early". Convicted on terrorism charges. Whole "Merchant of Death" moniker must be media hyperbole. I am sure that Ukraine, Africa, the Middle East, and all US troops stationed abroad don't share your views.

I’m sorry that you are so deflated by the freeing of a gay, black, female American imprisoned on the extremely serious charge of possession of a minuscule amount of therapeutic marijuana extract.

[ deleted ] Griner broke Russian law; she even admitted it. For whatever reason she was deemed she shouldn't serve her time. Brandon got his photo op; and Putin got his right hand man back. What a great fucking trade! [ deleted ] That makes it all worth while!

Cheer up though, maybe another gay club will get shot up soon to raise your spirits.

Since I am against giving up a Russian arms dealer and convicted terrorist for someone that actually broke Russian law I am suddenly for gay night clubs being shot up? [ deleted, meta ]

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
1.1.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Ronin2 @1.1.2    2 months ago

Guys, I try to give as much leeway with the comments as I can, but I am seeing stuff that looks insulting to the members in several comments. Please stop or I will get a lot more strict with my moderation. Time:1:43 pm

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.1.4  JBB  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.1    2 months ago

To the gop American gun merchants are patriots but Russian gun dealers are merchants of death. Why can't we just send all of our patriotic gun dealing merchants of death to Russia, too? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @1.1.4    2 months ago

ridiculous of course

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.1.6  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ronin2 @1.1.2    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
1.1.7  Jack_TX  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.1    2 months ago

The thought process you're defending here is that a convicted arms dealer for a dipshit drug user is a good trade.

Anybody who actually believes that is a complete fucking moron, and I suspect if you were able to look at anything objectively, you would agree.  If Trump had made this trade for a rich white Republican kid from Connecticut, you would correctly think that was outrageous.

So what you're actually doing is allowing your rampaging political bias drag you into defending the indefensible.  You don't give a fuck because 'yaaaaay Democrats'.  That's the kind of bullshit that makes otherwise reasonable people do unreasonable shit like vote for Donald Trump.

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
1.1.8  Hallux  replied to  Ronin2 @1.1.2    2 months ago
Putin got his right hand man back.

Seeing as Bout was 'awol' for more than a dozen years, one would think that the fella who holds all the cards (so I have been told here) would have found a new dealer a dozen years ago. Bout was in jail farting soap bubbles while Putin's minions were buying up arms from NK and its soul-bro Iran.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
1.1.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @1.1.4    2 months ago
To the gop American gun merchants are patriots but Russian gun dealers are merchants of death. Why can't we just send all of our patriotic gun dealing merchants of death to Russia, too? 

Apparently Eric Holder saw a difference as Bout got indicted in 2010 and convicted with a 25 year sentence, while US firearm manufacturers haven't. 

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.10  cjcold  replied to  Ronin2 @1.1    2 months ago

Whelan is likely a high-level operative considering his training, history and AO.

Trashing Biden for making the only deal available is just stupid and anti-USA.

Since the US is the largest arms dealer in the world, why not trade a small fish?

I imagine that the CIA has tags all over this guy. If not deals in place.

Whelan will cost a lot more than a low-level arms dealer. They're a dime a dozen.

Trading for the stupid teenage pot smoking basketball player had to be done. 

After all, she is an innocent and had no SERE training like Whelan had. 

Both sides understood that she was being used as a pawn in the ongoing game.

I imagine that there are many more cards in this game yet to be played.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.1.11  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.7    2 months ago

Perhaps you should review your own twisted thought process.  Whelan isn’t some innocent contractor, he’s a moron who thought attending a wedding in Russia and transporting a flash drive with “wedding pictures” on it out of the country wasn’t the risk that it was.  That is two incredibly stupid moves on his part.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
1.1.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.11    2 months ago
he’s a moron

You think that he is a moron and cjcold thinks he is likely a high level operative.  That's a big spread.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
1.1.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  cjcold @1.1.10    2 months ago
Whelan is likely a high-level operative considering his training, history and AO.

Given his court-martial, I doubt that he held a US clearance.

Whelan will cost a lot more than a low-level arms dealer. They're a dime a dozen.

Exactly and they all earn playful or colorfull nicknames like The Merchant of Death.

Trading for the stupid teenage pot smoking basketball player

Griner is 32 years old.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.14  CB   replied to  Ronin2 @1.1    2 months ago

The usual suspects, plural, sharing right-wing talking points that discount "gays," women, sports, and wait for it: freedom. Shameless, and we know that already! When will the MAGA conservatives show some mental 'chops' and just be happy, or okay, or so-so about others-probably never. Well conservatives this won't help get you any political capital with the categories I mentioned. And you can forget about good-will when you traffic in disrespect and funky attitudes!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.15  CB   replied to  JBB @1.1.4    2 months ago

It is highly probable that American gun merchants are there already. If there is great opportunity to make money; 'dealers' of all kind find a way to bend or trick the law to their advantage or just commit to the risks involved using a intermediary!

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
1.1.16  al Jizzerror  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.13    2 months ago
Given his court-martial, I doubt that he held a US clearance.

OTOH, the court-martial could be part of a carefully crafted cover story.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
1.1.17  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  al Jizzerror @1.1.16    2 months ago

Maybe, but if he were that valued, he would have had a diplomatic passport.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.18  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.7    2 months ago
So what you're actually doing is allowing your rampaging political bias drag you into defending the indefensible.  You don't give a fuck because 'yaaaaay Democrats'.  That's the kind of bullshit that makes otherwise reasonable people do unreasonable shit like vote for Donald Trump.

Hold up who are you calling a "dipshit drug user," do you know what CBD oil is used for in people?

CBD vs. THC: Side effects

CBD is well tolerated, even in large doses. suggests any side effects that occur with CBD use are likely the result of drug-to-drug interactions between CBD and other medications you may be taking. This may include liver damage.

CBD’s side effects may include:

  • appetite changes
  • fatigue
  • weight loss
  • dizziness
  • diarrhea
  • sleepiness and drowsiness

THC causes temporary side effects, such as:

  • increased heart rate
  • coordination problems
  • dry mouth
  • red eyes
  • slower reaction times
  • memory loss
  • anxiety
  • tiredness
  • confusion
  • distress
  • low blood pressure
  • seizures and seizure-like activity

These side effects are part of the compound’s psychoactive properties.

Neither compound is fatal.

However, high THC use may be connected to long-term negative psychiatric effects. This may be especially true for adolescents who consume large amounts of THC.

Long-term cannabis use can cause amotivational syndrome in which people experience symptoms of depression along with low motivation, according to . The same research notes that cannabis use has also been linked to psychosis, depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, and substance use disorders.

However, there’s currently no conclusive evidence that using cannabis causes psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.19  cjcold  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.13    2 months ago
Griner is 32 years old.

Oops! Didn't notice that on the first read. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
1.1.20  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @1.1.18    2 months ago
Hold up who are you calling a "dipshit drug user,"

Brittney Griner.  That was completely obvious.

do you know what CBD oil is used for in people?

It was concentrated hashish oil in a vape cartridge.  We all know what that's used for.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
1.1.21  Jack_TX  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.11    2 months ago
Perhaps you should review your own twisted thought process.

I actually have a "thought" process, as opposed to "feelings" of blind loyalty to a political party.  Give it a shot.

 Whelan isn’t some innocent contractor, he’s a moron who thought attending a wedding in Russia and transporting a flash drive with “wedding pictures” on it out of the country wasn’t the risk that it was.  That is two incredibly stupid moves on his part.

Please cite where I have made any mention whatsoever about Whelan. 

The point I have already stated (repeatedly) is that the trade of a convicted arms dealer described by terrorism experts as one of the most dangerous men on the planet in exchange for a dipshit who absolutely did what she was accused of is grossly irresponsible and moronic.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.22  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.20    2 months ago
concentrated hashish oil in a vape cartridge

Is hashish oil  - cannabis oil or not?  And, what for can cannabis oil, concentrated or not concentrated, be used?

Brittney Griner Submits Proof of Medical Cannabis Clearance to Russian Court

Brittney Griner ’s legal team submitted a letter to a Russian court Friday that showed she had been given medical clearance to use cannabis for chronic pain, wrapping up two days of crucial hearings that focused on the detained American basketball player’s character and athletic career .

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.23  devangelical  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.20    2 months ago
It was concentrated hashish oil in a vape cartridge.  We all know what that's used for.

... saving republican lives? /s

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.1.24  Ronin2  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.3    2 months ago
Cheer up though, maybe another gay club will get shot up soon to raise your spirits.

You can start with this comment- which was flagged at 1.1.1

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
1.1.25  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @1.1.22    2 months ago
Is hashish oil  - cannabis oil or not?

It's not CBD.  And if you seriously don't understand that difference, do some reading before you reply.

It also makes no difference what American doctors say about a drug.  That does not mean they're legal in other countries.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.26  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.25    2 months ago

Is hashish oil  - cannabis oil or not? And,  when did MAGA  become a defender of other nations laws and policies? And by way of that question: I shall expect MAGA to be consistent and defend Ukraine against Russian aggression in future discussions.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.27  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.1    2 months ago

Merchant of Death

jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.28  devangelical  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.27    2 months ago

I'm surprised most trumpsters don't wear sandwich boards stating "the end is near".

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2  devangelical  replied to  dennissmith @1    2 months ago
Putin got what he wanted and Biden did not get what he wanted.

yeah, joe should've at least gotten a white guy for a terrorist... /s

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
1.2.1  dennissmith  replied to  devangelical @1.2    2 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
1.2.2  cobaltblue  replied to  dennissmith @1.2.1    2 months ago

Your racism is noted. 

I guess you didn't notice the sarc tag.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.3  devangelical  replied to  cobaltblue @1.2.2    2 months ago

like it helped. that double-edged joke was 30K feet over his head.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3  CB   replied to  dennissmith @1    2 months ago

The usual fair: Bitch and moan shamelessly, eh? Is there anything about this exchange for which you are grateful? At least you won't have to hear about Griner still stuck in Russia again. (This time, if she is smart she will stay home where at least she don't have to worry about CBD cartridges on her person.)

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.1  Texan1211  replied to  CB @1.3    2 months ago
(This time, if she is smart she will stay home where at least she don't have to worry about CBD cartridges on her person.)

Perhaps she will stay in states that allow it and steer clear of those which do not.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.2  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @1.3.1    2 months ago

It would benefit 'ordinary' Americans to process and understand that when there is international strife occurring between 'sparring' and warring nations to vacate the 'scene' even if it costs one dearly to do so; as it is all too easy to get real or piled up charges or kidnappings in a foreign country and make an international scene. In Griner's case the money simply can't be worth what she traded away and lost her wish to be in Russia (again) to boot! Major turn-off!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.3  Texan1211  replied to  CB @1.3.2    2 months ago

Fantastic, but WHAT does any of that have to do with my post?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.3.4  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @1.3.3    2 months ago

Well Texan, you know that liberty and freedom y'all go on ad nauseam about means I can express some of both in my comments to say what I wish to convey and not have to check myself "in" with somebody. FANTASTIC! Use what you can of my comment(s) and throw what's left out and away.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.5  Texan1211  replied to  CB @1.3.4    2 months ago
Well Texan, you know that liberty and freedom y'all go on ad nauseam about means I can express some of both in my comments to say what I wish to convey and not have to check myself "in" with somebody. FANTASTIC! Use what you can of my comment(s) and throw what's left out and away.

Well, of course you can write whatever you wish.

Usually people respond to something specific in a comment.

It works better that way.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2  Vic Eldred    2 months ago

The "Merchant of Death" for a basketball player who got arrested on Marijuana charges.
What kind of example does this set?

Any American in enemy territory can be arrested on a fake charge so they (in this case Russia) can gain the release of somebody they want back.  Under Obama we traded 5 dangerous members of the Taliban for a US deserter. Not only only are these trades a bad precedent, but democrats have been terrible at playing the game.

As I recall Trump got people back without making such trades.


Who really wanted this trade?

Could it be Putin, who is in the middle of a war and needs an arms dealer?

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
2.1  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    2 months ago
As I recall Trump got people back without making such trades.

I guess yesterday's hero who had such 'great' rapport with his Russian counterpart did not care about either Whelan or Fogel.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.1  CB   replied to  Hallux @2.1    2 months ago

And that selfish 'pig' of a man could have used his clout with Putin as a former president and whatever to help with the negotiating (if called upon), but no-now that Griner is back on U.S. soil Trump is underwhelming us with his 'regal' tweets for which he got righteously 'blasted'!

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.1.2  Ronin2  replied to  Hallux @2.1    2 months ago

Fogel was 2021- that is under Brandon's watch.

Fogel’s case bears a striking similarity to Griner’s, which has captured national headlines since the WNBA star was detained in Russia in February 2022. Like Griner, Fogel — a 61-year-old history teacher from Pennsylvania who lived in Russia while teaching at the Anglo-American School in Moscow — was taken into custody by Russian authorities in August 2021 after customs officials at a Russian airport discovered around half an ounce of medical marijuana stashed in his luggage. The drugs had been prescribed to him by doctors in the U.S. to help treat chronic pain stemming from a series of injuries and operations, but Fogel’s reasons didn’t matter. Ten months later, in June 2022, a Russian court convicted him of drug trafficking charges and sentenced him to 14 years in prison. In October, Fogel was transferred from a Moscow detention center to one of Russia’s notorious penal colonies , where he is slated to serve the remainder of his sentence.

But if the facts of Fogel’s case closely resemble those of Griner’s, the public response to the two cases has been dramatically different. Coming in the weeks before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Griner’s arrest sparked an international outcry, with many observers arguing that Griner had been taken as a bargaining chip in Russia’s increasingly tense confrontation with the United States. In May, the State Department determined that Griner was being “wrongfully detained,” a designation that established the legal basis for her release this week in a one-for-one prisoner exchange for Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout.

Fogel, by contrast, has garnered little public attention. The State Department has not granted him “wrongfully detained” status, despite repeated appeals from a bipartisan group of lawmakers and Fogel’s lawyers . (A spokesperson for the State Department declined to comment on the specifics of Fogel’s case, saying: “The Department continuously reviews the circumstances surrounding the detentions of U.S. nationals overseas, including those in Russia, for indicators that they are wrongful.”) In the media, Fogel’s detention has been overshadowed by the coverage of Griner and Paul Whelan, an American businessman and former Marine who has been held in Russia since 2018 on espionage charges.

The relative obscurity of Fogel’s case continues to baffle former U.S. government officials who knew Fogel in Moscow.

“It’s a bit mysterious to me why we [aren’t] talking about three Americans — now, thankfully, two Americans — instead of just one,” said Michael McFaul, the former U.S. ambassador to Russia, whose son was a student of Fogel’s at the Anglo-American School.

“He’s not just some random guy that got arrested — he was part of our community,” said McFaul. “He taught our kids, the kids of U.S. government officials and he taught our military’s kids.”

Brandon took office Jan 20,2021.

Typical leftists blaming Trump for Brandon's fuck up.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.3  CB   replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.2    2 months ago

What do you want, Ronin2, President Biden to go over and 'walk' Fogel home?  Griner had a better delivery platform (being a professional ball player does have its perps and Brittney's team clearly knew how to use it), visibility, letter writing campaigns, and the adage: The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Or, the squeakiest wheel gets the most oil. Applies. 

Industry people helped get Brittney's case and affair get resolved in a foreign land. Where are the teachers supporting and 'piling on' for Fogel? Government can only do so much without the pressure (power) people amassed together delivers!

Therefore, your complaint is simply sour grapes.  We call benefit from watching how Brittney Griner's team 'greased' the processes that led to her eventually release! We, rather we wanted to focus or not were called to pay "attention" to her plight regularly.

What is called for here is this: Lessons Learned.

Do so fast! And then go do the grinding and 'oily' work of getting Mr. Fogel out of a Russian hell-hole where he is stuck. Brittney Griner's team has provided a blueprint of how possibly can be duplicated.

 
 
 
evilgenius
Professor Guide
2.2  evilgenius  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    2 months ago
As I recall Trump got people back without making such trades.

Whelan was imprisoned on Trump's watch. Why couldn't the Bid Deal Maker get him out before he left office?

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.2.1  Ronin2  replied to  evilgenius @2.2    2 months ago

Same reason Whelan is still in Russia under Brandon's watch.

Unless you don't believe Brandon when he stated Putin wouldn't deal Whelan?

 
 
 
evilgenius
Professor Guide
2.2.2  evilgenius  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.1    2 months ago
Same reason Whelan is still in Russia under Brandon's watch.

That was my very point and should be the end of the whole discussion.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.1    2 months ago

Whelan is a disgraced ex Marine, separated from active duty after a Courts Marshal found him guilty for dereliction of duty, forgery, check kiting, identity theft, false statements on official documents and false statements to superiors. 

While in Russia for a friends wedding, he accepted a flash drive to give to another friend, which he said was only wedding photos.  When trying to leave the country the FSS found the flash drive and supposedly it contained much more than wedding photos.

So he is not an unblemished or cherished veteran of the USMC and he is at least as guilty as Griner for breaking Russian law.

That is why the Soviets are insistent of trading a spy for a spy in Whelan's case.

 and neither Administration will go to much trouble for him.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.2.4  Ronin2  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.3    2 months ago
So he is not an unblemished or cherished veteran of the USMC and he is at least as guilty as Griner for breaking Russian law. That is why the Soviets are insistent of trading a spy for a spy in Whelan's case.

So Russia has never planted evidence on anyone to make them look like a spy? Also, who would Whelan have been transporting information for? 

and neither Administration will go to much trouble for him.

We all know that the Trump administration wouldn't have traded Bout straight up for him. Because it was never even offered.

No matter how hard you want to spin this Brandon made a very, very, very bad deal.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.5  CB   replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.4    2 months ago
We all know that the Trump administration wouldn't have traded Bout straight up for him. Because it was never even offered.

See 10 below.

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
2.3  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    2 months ago
Could it be Putin, who is in the middle of a war and needs an arms dealer?

Only in the vast wasteland of a non fertile imagination that scrambles to find any implausible excuse that comes from watching too much Tucker.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.3.1  devangelical  replied to  Hallux @2.3    2 months ago

... tucker suckers.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.4  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    2 months ago
As I recall Trump got people back without making such trades.

only because he probably owed them money...

why not admit what is really bothersome to conservative minds about this trade? it's quite trendy now to do so ...

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
2.4.1  dennissmith  replied to  devangelical @2.4    2 months ago

 Probably is not proof just opinion

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
2.5  al Jizzerror  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    2 months ago
As I recall Trump got people back without making such trades.

So why didn't Trump get Whelan back?

Trump never even mentioned Whelan even though Whelan's family begged him to tweet about him.

Biden has publicly asked for Whelan to be returned.

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
2.5.1  dennissmith  replied to  al Jizzerror @2.5    2 months ago

Ths is not about Trump but Biden.

Biden asked? Why not demand it like Putin did for his guy.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
2.5.2  al Jizzerror  replied to  dennissmith @2.5.1    2 months ago
Ths is not about Trump but Biden.

This seed is supposed to be about the Griner swap.

The RWNJs made it about criticizing Biden for failing to get Whelan released. 

I merely pointed out that Whelan was imprisoned on Trump's watch and that Trump didn't lift a fucking finger to get Whelan realesed.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.5.3  CB   replied to  al Jizzerror @2.5.2    2 months ago

Exactly.  And so it is not too late for Trump to put his big 'mouth' to work to get Whelan released. Surely, his friend Putin will deliver Whelan on the 'strength' of their friendship and a few other overtures?  Of course, afterwards, Donald Trump can milk the narrative for all its worth!

What are the chances that old big TWEETER will do more than lipservice about this case and Whelan's?

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
2.6  Gsquared  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    2 months ago
Under Obama we traded 5 dangerous members of the Taliban for a US deserter.

Your hero Trump released 5,000 dangerous members of the Taliban.  Not only was that a disasterous decision, but republicans are clueless about protecting democracy.

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
2.6.1  dennissmith  replied to  Gsquared @2.6    2 months ago
And Biden left the entire country of Afghanistan in the hands of the Taliban as well as American weaponry when he tucked his tail between his legs and ran away instead of destroying the weaponry.
 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
2.6.2  al Jizzerror  replied to  dennissmith @2.6.1    2 months ago
And Biden left the entire country of Afghanistan in the hands of the Taliban as well as American weaponry when he tucked his tail between his legs and ran away instead of destroying the weaponry.

It was Trump who surrendered to the Taliban in Afghanistan and he agreed to the terms and the timeline.  Biden even extended the timeline to give us more time to get people out.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.6.3  JBB  replied to  al Jizzerror @2.6.2    2 months ago

True, and any Americans the goppers falsely blame Biden for "leaving behind" in Afghanistan were the very few Afghan Americans who stayed in Afghanistan of their own damn accords and who had refused to leave when begged to do so by the evacuating American authorities. So, there goes another lying gopper gripe...

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.4  Split Personality  replied to  dennissmith @2.6.1    2 months ago

Mr. Trump "negotiated" the end of our involvement in Afghanistan while trading 5,000 imprisoned Taliban fighters for 1000 government employees held as hostages.

The equipment that was too expensive to fly away or airlift was sold to the Afghan government.  High end technology was removed or destroyed.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.6.5  Sean Treacy  replied to  Gsquared @2.6    2 months ago
p released 5,000 dangerous members of the Talib

Good point. This is exactly the same as the exchange of POWS as part of a peace agreement. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.6.6  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.4    2 months ago
he equipment that was too expensive to fly away

Like helicopters

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.6.7  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.4    2 months ago

there used to be funny youtube videos of the taliban failing to learn how to fly some of those helicopters, without instructors...

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
2.6.8  dennissmith  replied to  al Jizzerror @2.6.2    2 months ago

Deny all you want, Trumps had a plan AND conditions to withdraw civilians first, weaponry withdrawn/destroyed next and military last. 

Bidens had NO plan OR conditions so he withdrew military first, some civilians next and no plan to detsroy/withdraw munitons.

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
2.6.9  dennissmith  replied to  JBB @2.6.3    2 months ago

Why do you suppose there are still Americans trying to get civilians out after they were left behind by Biden. 

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
2.6.10  dennissmith  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.4    2 months ago
The equipment that was too expensive to fly away or airlift was sold to the Afghan government.  High end technology was removed or destroyed.

The Afghan government bought nothing they was simply left there. The Afghan government was taken over by the Taliban which one of Trump's conditions would not allow.

The The Taliban now has what you claim they "bought"

And yes it could all have been destroyed if the cost was too high to remove it.    

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.11  Split Personality  replied to  dennissmith @2.6.8    2 months ago
Deny all you want,

We will.  The State Department started telling all known contractors, passport holders,

green card holders and Afghan employees in APRIL.

They resent the warnings every three weeks

But no one, repeat no one, expected the complete collapse of the Afghan

government.

Trump didn't have a contingent plan for the withdrawal that he orchestrated.

State and the Army did the best they could under the circumstances.

There were 73 various aircraft left behind including seven 60 year old

State Department CH46 Sea Knight slated for deactivation.  They like most of the

aircraft were rendered inoperable.

The MD 530 helicopters had the joystick ripped out, etc.

When it came to Afghan units across the country, they melted away abandoning their 

posts and equipment.  From 2003 to 2021 some $83 billion in equipment was sold or

donated to the Afghan governments by the Administrations of Bush Obama and Trump.

There was no payment in Trump's treaty.  He gave it all away to put Afghan behind us,

confident that he would be re-elected.

Shit happens.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.12  Split Personality  replied to  dennissmith @2.6.10    2 months ago
The Afghan government bought nothing they was simply left there.

More or less true, they were a dependent state for 19 years.

The Afghan government was taken over by the Taliban which one of Trump's conditions would not allow.

Explain to all of us how Trump would not allow a coup or civil war even if he had been reelected?

The The Taliban now has what you claim they "bought"

Yes they do plus $4 billion a year through 2024 due to the treaty "negotiated" with the

UN, Afghanistan, NATO and Mr. Trump.  There was no disclaimer about coups, civil war

or takeover by the Taliban.  So much for the great negotiator.

And yes it could all have been destroyed if the cost was too high to remove it.

Equipment was removed over a period of 4 months based on age, tech level and

convenience with the intention of leaving the rest to the Afghan government, not the

Taliban.  The equipment under US scrutiny at Kabul was rendered inoperable.

The complete collapse of the Aghan military & police handed the Taliban a windfall that

was not predicted, at least not at the speed it happened,  Both Administrations

envisioned the Afghan government holding on for at least a few years, hence Trump's

gift of $4Billion a year 2021 through 2024.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.11    2 months ago
We will.  The State Department started telling all known contractors, passport holders, green card holders and Afghan employees in APRIL.

Didn't they tell them to be gone by Sept? Did they massive departure in July add to the rapid downfall?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.14  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.13    2 months ago
Didn't they tell them to be gone by Sept?

Not in April.

Did they massive departure in July add to the rapid downfall?

Of course we can assume that the exodus starting in July affected the whole process.

As for the first warning that was issued by State... you be the judge.

(April 27,2021)

Location:   Afghanistan

Event:   On April 27, 2021, the Department of State ordered the departure from U.S. Embassy Kabul of U.S. government employees whose functions can be performed elsewhere due to increasing violence and threat reports in Kabul. The Consular Section in U.S. Embassy Kabul will remain open for limited consular services to U.S. citizens and for Afghan Special Immigrant Visa processing.

The Embassy reminds U.S. citizens that the Travel Advisory for Afghanistan remains  Level 4-Do Not Travel  due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, kidnapping, armed conflict, and COVID-19. Commercial flight options from Hamid Karzai International Airport (HKIA) remain available and the U.S. Embassy strongly suggests that U.S. citizens make plans to leave Afghanistan as soon as possible. Given the security conditions and reduced staffing, the Embassy’s ability to assist U.S. citizens in Afghanistan is extremely limited.

Actions to Take:

  • Make plans to depart Afghanistan by commercial airlines
  • Have evacuation plans that do not rely on U.S. government assistance
  • Stay alert in places frequented by foreigners
  • Be aware of your surroundings
  • Keep a low profile
  • Notify a trusted person of your travel and movement plans
  • Be aware of your surroundings and local security developments
  • Monitor local media
  • Review your personal security plans

Assistance:

Security Alert - U.S. Embassy Kabul, Afghanistan - U.S. Embassy in Afghanistan (usembassy.gov)

2 things.

1.  Almost everyone ignored these repeated warnings except the contractors.

2.  "Stay alert in places frequented by foreigners" is rather ironic or the height of being

arrogantly obtuse, since Americans were the foreigners in Afghanistan.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.15  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.14    2 months ago

In Apr 21, DoD had 16,832 workers employed by contractors in Afghanistan, 6,147 were U.S. citizens. Why didn't Biden direct the contracts to be modified so there was no paycheck after May?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.6.16  CB   replied to  Split Personality @2.6.12    2 months ago
Ashraf-Ghani-flees-taliban-02.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=1024

 Russia says Afghan president fled with 4 cars, chopper full of money
By Yaron Steinbuch 
August 16, 2021 

Afghan President Ashraf Ghani fled the country with four vehicles and a helicopter full of cash, the Russian embassy in Kabul said Monday.

The embattled leader left the presidential palace in Kabul on Sunday to the insurgent Taliban fighters who had toppled his government.

“To avoid bloodshed, I thought it would be better to leave,” Ghani, 72, said on Facebook in his first comments after his departure.

The former World Bank academic — who holds a doctorate from New York City’s Columbia University — didn’t say where he was going, but Al Jazeera reported later that he had flown to Uzbekistan.

“As for the collapse of the (outgoing) regime, it is most eloquently characterized by the way Ghani fled Afghanistan,” Nikita Ishchenko, a Russian embassy spokesman in Kabul, was quoted as saying by Russian state-owned news outlet RIA, Reuters reported.

“Four cars were full of money, they tried to stuff another part of the money into a helicopter, but not all of it fit. And some of the money was left lying on the tarmac,” Ishchenko was quoted as saying.

The United States was not given any heads up that President Ghani was going to vacate the 'premises' of Afghanistan before it could depart. However, the old adage:  "Momma didn't raise no fool!" comes to my mind. jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif   And a Steve Miller Band lyric: "Go on take the money and run!"

NOTE : Of course, this link (above) is Russia talking and has not been verified by CB!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.17  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.6.16    2 months ago

E\xactly, as the US fled Afghanistan is the Spring-Summer of 21, only a fool believed that the Taliban would be kept at bay.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.6.19  JBB  replied to  dennissmith @2.6.9    2 months ago

No, trying to get Afghan civilians out...

How many Afghanis should we admit?

There was never any plan for the US to remove Afghanis who did not evacuate before US forces pulled out. They chose to stay and are themselves responsible.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.20  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.18    2 months ago
Ask your boss? May 06 2021

So, there was no issue.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.21  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.6.19    2 months ago
There was never any plan for the US to remove Afghanis who did not evacuate before US forces pulled out. They chose to stay and are themselves responsible.

Exactly, fuck em.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.22  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.20    2 months ago

You asked questions about the timing, implying Biden was somehow at fault for the

timeline. 

I provided links proving the State Department was advising people to leave by April 27,

2021 and not to expect any help from the US government

and that the Pentagon issued warnings to contractors 10 days later.

I have no issues with those facts.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.6.23  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.17    2 months ago

Just curious: What administration was in-charge of Afghanistan after its president 'threw up his own white flag and surrendered/flew away in a 'big old jet airliner'? Do you know, Drinker? Was the surrender the start to a slow or rapid descent into chaos?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.6.24  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.21    2 months ago

We honored what we said we would do...

Except reinvading, nothing to do about it.

They are Afghanis. Can you imagine the uproar it Biden brought them to the US?

The same rightwingers bitching Biden did not get them out, would bitch if he had...

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.25  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.21    2 months ago
Exactly, fuck em.

Exactly, like we did to North Koreans, many Vietnamese and Somalians, probably many others.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
2.6.26  al Jizzerror  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.25    2 months ago
Exactly, like we did to North Koreans, many Vietnamese and Somalians, probably many others.

Trump turned his back on the Kurds after they helped wipe out ISIS.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.6.27  devangelical  replied to  al Jizzerror @2.6.26    2 months ago

AA159jn2.img?w=768&h=432&m=6

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
2.6.28  dennissmith  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.11    2 months ago

Spin how you want, there were billions of dollars of munitions left for the Taiban to take charge of.

If you think those and their families who did not make it out were not threatended by the Taliban, you are naive.

The Taliban rolled across the country as soons they Biden announced a pull out date with no conditions or consequences. 

Destroying munitions was very much in Trumps conditions.

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
2.6.29  dennissmith  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.12    2 months ago

Explain to all of us how Trump would not allow a coup or civil war even if he had been reelected?

Read what Trump said and you will have the answer. 

The complete collapse of the Aghan military & police handed the Taliban a windfall that

was not predicted, at least not at the speed it happened. 

Why not, was intel faulty, did the Admin take heed from the intel? This happened under Biden's watch. 

Blame and spin is the Admin stance when things go poorly.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.6.30  Ronin2  replied to  CB @2.6.16    2 months ago

Ashraf was no fool. He saw the end coming- especially after this conversation with Brandon.

In the call, Biden offered aid if Ghani could publicly project he had a plan to control the spiraling situation in Afghanistan. “We will continue to provide close air support, if we know what the plan is,” Biden said. Days before the call, the U.S. carried out air strikes to support Afghan security forces, a move the Taliban said was in violation of the Doha peace agreement.

The U.S. president also advised Ghani to get buy-in from powerful Afghans for a military strategy going forward, and then to put a “warrior” in charge of the effort, a reference to Defense Minister General Bismillah Khan Mohammadi.

Biden lauded the Afghan armed forces, which were trained and funded by the U.S. government. “You clearly have the best military,” he told Ghani. “You have 300,000 well-armed forces versus 70-80,000 and they’re clearly capable of fighting well.” Days later, the Afghan military started folding across provincial capitals in the country with little fight against the Taliban.

In much of the call, Biden focused on what he called the Afghan government’s “perception” problem. “I need not tell you the perception around the world and in parts of Afghanistan, I believe, is that things are not going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban,” Biden said. “And there is a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture.”

Biden told Ghani that if Afghanistan’s prominent political figures were to give a press conference together, backing a new military strategy, “that will change perception, and that will change an awful lot I think.”

The American leader’s words indicated he didn’t anticipate the massive insurrection and collapse to come 23 days later. “We are going to continue to fight hard, diplomatically, politically, economically, to make sure your government not only survives, but is sustained and grows,” said Biden.

Seems that lip service is all Biden was looking for. Give the projection of things looking good; and that was the same as things actually being good. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.31  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.25    2 months ago

North Koreans?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.32  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.6.23    2 months ago
What administration was in-charge of Afghanistan

Mohammad Ashraf Ghani Ahmadzai 

Was the surrender the start to a slow or rapid descent into chaos?

Slow

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.6.33  CB   replied to  Ronin2 @2.6.30    2 months ago
The U.S. president also advised Ghani to get buy-in from powerful Afghans for a military strategy going forward, and then to put a “warrior” in charge of the effort, a reference to Defense Minister General Bismillah Khan Mohammadi.

Bismillah means, "In the name of Allah" and thus, the Afghan President should have trusted in the strength and power of his God coupled with the might of the American President to do what he said he would do and not have departed his beloved country.

Writing about 'lip service,' it is MAGA that is here on NT making 'karen sounds' about American wealth being depleted and traded off to no good and proper effect! But, you intend to abuse this president. . . and this NT room. . .of a notion that you care about Ghani's health and welfare while he lifts off to a land 'flowing with milk and honey' with American cash/capital explicitly meant for the Afghan people to defend themselves?!!

That's fraudulent!

Ronin2, yours is nothing more than partisan butchering of this topic. Moreover, with this rendering, you have handicapped your counter-narrative and everybody can see it for what is it is: Bogus and festering rantings from a yet sore election loser's camp.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.34  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.31    2 months ago

An unknown number of North Koreans who would have defected if not for the Armistice

and the DMZ in addition to the 84,000 plus South Koreans who were abducted by the

North during the fighting prior to 1953.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.35  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.34    2 months ago

You have an unique perspective on history.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.6.36  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.32    2 months ago
Mohammad Ashraf Ghani Ahmadzai 

You mean the self-imposed Leader in Exile?

You still float the canard that he is worth complaining about an American President over here and now?!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.6.37  devangelical  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.35    2 months ago

... almost as unique as your perspective on the oath to defend the constitution and patriotism.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.38  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.35    2 months ago

Nah, just realistic about the "Fuck'em" remark.

Administrations pick winners and losers all the time.

Columbia, Central America, Iraq, the list goes on and on.

Afghanistan is just the latest example.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.39  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.38    2 months ago

So you think that Joe picked Afghanistan to be a loser.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.40  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.39    2 months ago

Twist away...

Afghanistan is the loser that Trump picked.

Trump ordered a large scale troop withdrawal from Afghanistan and Somalia on Nov 11, 2020 when it was clear that he lost the election.  He wanted an immediate evacuation.

You know this, the Pentagon knew this and Milley & Kellog protested.  Biden gave the Pentagon a bit of wiggle room but a treaty had been negotiated with the Taliban, NATO and Afghanistan, endorsed by the UN Security Council. The die had been cast.  Imagine if Biden tried to tear up that treaty and kept us in Afghanistan. /s

We are still paying Afghanistan $4 Billion a year through 2024 with no restrictions or oversight.  

Clearly the Taliban are the winners that Trump picked.

For the people of Afghanistan that are still there, willingly or not, it's just another day ending in "y".

So yeah, the people who ignored that February 2020 treaty, handing the country of

Afghanistan to the Taliban, ( with no input from the actual elected government of

Afghanistan ), for almost 18 months despite all of the warnings?

Fuck'em.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.41  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.40    2 months ago

Twist away? 

Afghanistan is the loser that Trump picked

Biden just endorsed it. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.42  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.6.41    2 months ago

The UN, Trump and NATO endorsed it.

Was there a vote in Congress? I cannot find one.

Biden chose between withdrawal and escalation.

As far as I am concerned the Taliban broke the last several conditions of the Treaty 

and we (Biden) would be within our "rights" to renege on the $4Billion annual payments.

Past Presidents have had few issues breaking treaties with other countries.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.6.43  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.42    2 months ago

If you point is that Trump supported a bad Doha deal, you'll get no argument from me.

As far as I am concerned the Taliban broke the last several conditions of the Treaty 

I agree.  The Taliban gave Biden a new options:

  • renegotiate the Doha deal to make withdrawal explicitly conditional on an intra-Afghan agreement
  • or, put maximum pressure on both the Taliban and the Ghani government to compromise
 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.6.44  Tessylo  replied to  dennissmith @2.6.8    2 months ago

why didn't he?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.6.45  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @2.6.44    2 months ago

His plan was for May and since he didn't win.....................................

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.46  Split Personality  replied to  dennissmith @2.6.28    2 months ago
Spin how you want, there were billions of dollars of munitions left for the Taiban to take charge of.

The munitions were left in the hands of Afghan's 195,000 troops.

If you think those and their families who did not make it out were not threatended by the Taliban, you are naive.

They had to be naive to stay.  Taliban began violating the Doha Treaty in March of 2020 and never slowed down.

The Taliban rolled across the country as soons they Biden announced a pull out date with no conditions or consequences. 

Read the Doha Treaty which was signed by the US & Taliban under the previous Administration and endorsed by the UN & Nato. There were conditions & consequences.  The pull out dates were set by Mr Trump and extended by Mr Biden.

Destroying munitions was very much in Trumps conditions.

If Mr Trump was donating all of that military hardware to the existing government of Afghanistan why would he order it destroyed?

I welcome any link to prove your attempt to make this point.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.6.47  Split Personality  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.6.45    2 months ago

It was still an international treaty endorsed by the UN and every member of NATO

in February of 2020.  Biden extended the May deadline to September 01...

As the standing Army of Afghanistan's 195,000 troops melted away in the face of only

40,000 to 50,000 Taliban we were forced to reinvade, escalate or honor the treaty.

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
2.6.48  cobaltblue  replied to  Split Personality @2.6.47    2 months ago

40,000 to 50,000 Taliban we were forced to reinvade, escalate or honor the treaty. 

You are one smart fuck. Yum. Not just this sentence, just so damn knowledgeable in general. Yum.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.6.49  CB   replied to  cobaltblue @2.6.48    2 months ago

I 'do' agree. I have observed that Split Personality is a disciplined writer.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
2.6.50  Gsquared  replied to  CB @2.6.49    2 months ago
Split Personality is a disciplined writer

And a very good guy.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.6.51  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.6.45    2 months ago

Right!  Any excuse for the turd

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.6.52  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @2.6.51    2 months ago

What about didn't get elected and had no power to execute don't you understand?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.6.53  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.6.52    2 months ago

See comment 2.6.51

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.6.54  Texan1211  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.6.52    2 months ago
What about didn't get elected and had no power to execute don't you understand?

All of it.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.6.55  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.6.52    2 months ago

see 2.6.47

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.6.56  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @2.6.55    2 months ago

And? Still, he didn't have the power to see it through. He never got the chance. Your question was "why didn't he?"

He couldn't. 

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
2.7  dennissmith  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    2 months ago

Certainly 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.8  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @2    2 months ago

Wow, meaningless comparisons can't help us be better informed or do better. So why bother with making them up? Did you really ask: Who really wanted this trade? I will take for granted this is indicative of MAGA not wanting this trade and in the offing a star basketball player should get broken down and lost in the Russia system (and 'backwater') because afterall who is she a star for anyway? Wow. Thank MAGA for always failing to step up in an instance of crisis and for those moments of success!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.8.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.8    2 months ago
because afterall who is she a star for anyway?

UMMC Yekaterinburg

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3  Jeremy Retired in NC    2 months ago
In a rare comment on secret talks, he said the Biden administration had made a "substantial proposal" to Russia to end the imprisonment of two Americans: WNBA star Brittney Griner and Paul Whelan.

So what about Marc Fogel? 

I guess a nobody basketball player is more important than a U.S. Marine or a teacher.   

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3    2 months ago

On what basis do you say that Griner is a "nobody" basketball player? In the sports world she is very well known. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 months ago

On the basis that the majority of people didn't know who the fuck she was until she was arrested.  

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
3.1.2  Hallux  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.1.1    2 months ago
On the basis that the majority of people didn't know who the fuck she was until she was arrested.

I have never watched a basketball game nor am I an American and yet I have heard of her well before Russia decide to play games, but hey, go ahead and put her on the same gay crazy lady shelf as Rapino. Maybe a lesson or two from Whelan's brother would serve you better than knee-jerk partisan responses. 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Sophomore Quiet
3.1.3  afrayedknot  replied to  Hallux @3.1.2    2 months ago

“…nor am I an American…”

But she is and she is thankfully home.

The Whelan family’s response was beyond exceptional. Here’s to every effort at our disposal to reunite them as well. 

The predictable partisan responses are beyond the pale…equating gaining her freedom to a free agent sports trade…

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.4  devangelical  replied to  afrayedknot @3.1.3    2 months ago

face it, that guy will be looking over both shoulders for assassins. it wouldn't surprise me if putin had him liquidated after he shakes him down. plus, I'm sure the ukranians would be happy to hand over some valuable captured russians as trading material if asked...

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.1.5  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hallux @3.1.2    2 months ago
I have never watched a basketball game nor am I an American and yet I have heard of her

Well I guess I owe you a fucking cookie.  Still doesn't change a damn part of what I said now does it.

The predictable partisan responses are beyond the pale…equating gaining her freedom to a free agent sports trade

There's nothing partisan about my statement.  Seems you just don't like that I don't see her as you want me to.

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
3.1.6  dennissmith  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 months ago

Ony in the women's basketball is she very well known. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.7  CB   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.1.1    2 months ago

We would strive 'breathlessly' to get a MAGA conservative out of Russia too, Jeremy! It may not be easy, but we would try. . . hard.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.8  CB   replied to  dennissmith @3.1.6    2 months ago

ONLY? Apparently Griner is known in Russia, eh? Also, she is certainly known in D.C. because her why is in the White House smiling and standing with the President of the United States and the sports world after her successful release!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.9  JBB  replied to  CB @3.1.8    2 months ago

The only Americans not thrilled and elated Griner is home are a geriatric gaggle of angry Fox News watching far rightwing cranks, racists, sexists and homophobic throwbacks who in a better world would be relegated to hate sites and Klan rallies. Unfortunately we must suffer them...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.10  CB   replied to  JBB @3.1.9    2 months ago

Exactly. We are out of election season for house and senate and presidency, thus it is NOT national politics that is driving this toxic right-wing discussion.

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
3.1.11  dennissmith  replied to  CB @3.1.8    2 months ago

Typical of Biden to try to make her a celebrity when all she has done is play womens basketball and break laws of another country.

She is an American but other than that is a nothing burger.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.12  CB   replied to  dennissmith @3.1.11    2 months ago

Look! Just stop while y'all are somewhat ahead. This is beginning to sound a lot like karen-sounds - for the defeated. And, let me make something real clear to you dennissmith it shows weakness on some conservatives part to attack a woman and by extension women, a professional, and a marriage. Vainly attempting to 'groupie'  three separate and distinct cases in Russia together as one package deal is something it takes two parties to agree to do. There was no 'handshake' coming from the other side. And our 'karens' no this, because Russia gave the right-wing this talking point to 'execute' and so. . . you all are 'clasping' it for all its worth: Not very much value overall.

If 'one' keeps quiet, then 'one' won't unintentionally say something foolish, tactless, or offensive. - The Free Dictionary.com   ['One' by CB.]

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
3.1.13  Split Personality  replied to  dennissmith @3.1.11    2 months ago
Typical of Biden to try to make her a celebrity when all she has done is play womens basketball and break laws of another country.

Typical of Biden in what way?  She was arrested because she is a celebrity 

(granted, probably more so in Russia than the USA) who got railroaded for a seemingly minor infraction. At least she owned up to it as a dumb mistake. It wasn't like she brought an amount into that country that she could sell for a profit worth a 9 year sentence.

Whelan's case on the other hand involved smuggling information OUT of the country

which was why Russia labeled him a spy and neither Trump or Biden had what Putin wanted in return.

According to Bill Richardson@RichardsonCenter there are always about 60 Americans held globally that he and the State Department are working on getting released.  On average State brings about 50 people a year back from difficult situations.  If you are assisted by the State Department without Bill Richardson, you have to reimburse the USA for expenses.

Typically State does very little which is why Governor Richardson's non profit exists.

She is an American but other than that is a nothing burger.

Like most Gold Medal Olympians and FIBA World Cup Champions, the woman you describe as a nothing burger, will probably add to her multimillion dollar net worth with more endorsements and a likely book deal in the coming years.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Sophomore Quiet
3.1.14  afrayedknot  replied to  dennissmith @3.1.11    2 months ago

“She is an American but other than that is a nothing burger.”

Let us all agree she is an American.

Any and all additional commentary is simply opinion…which does nothing to distract from the first point. 

And that point being, as an American first…it is a good thing she is home. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.15  CB   replied to  afrayedknot @3.1.14    2 months ago
“She is an American but other than that is a nothing burger.”

And by this statement/smear it is meant Griner is not MAGA and nothing to MAGA.

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
3.1.16  cobaltblue  replied to  afrayedknot @3.1.14    2 months ago

And that point being, as an American first…it is a good thing she is home. 

Who do we write to in order to have the ability to vote up comments of this caliber 100 times?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.1.17  CB   replied to  cobaltblue @3.1.16    2 months ago

Afrayedknot, yet another writer tapping the vein of disciplined commentary.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2  al Jizzerror  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3    2 months ago
a nobody basketball

Your ignorance (and bias) is on full display.

Brittney Griner is the most dominant female basketball player in history.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2    2 months ago

That may mean something to somebody who follows basketball.  Me, I could care less. 

Again, many never heard of her until she was arrested for doing some illegal shit.  Then I'm expected to have sympathy for her?  Sorry.  Not playing that game.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2    2 months ago

not even close. Griner doesn't even rank in the top 20 in wnba career in points or rebounds. 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Sophomore Quiet
3.2.4  afrayedknot  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.3    2 months ago

“Griner doesn't even rank…”

Who cares about her ranking???

She is an American citizen that was detained for purely political reasons. She is thankfully now home and reunited with loved ones whose torment mirrored her own.

How can some see that her release is not a good thing? But then again, who am I kidding?

Do carry on…

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.5  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @3.2.4    2 months ago

well if one reads one finds that someone said she was the most dominant in history. numbers say different.

I said nothing about her release at all so keep inventing things in your mind and argue yourself

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
3.2.6  George  replied to  afrayedknot @3.2.4    2 months ago
She is an American citizen that was detained for purely political reasons

Really? she didn't smuggle drugs into Russia like a dumbass? She didn't become a tool for Putin because she is a dumbass? Who cares? How about all the people who will die because of arms sales so this entitled bitch could get high.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.2.7  Ronin2  replied to  afrayedknot @3.2.4    2 months ago
She is an American citizen that was detained for purely political reasons.

No, she broke Russian law; and admitted to it! 

"Russian criminal law treats drug offenses very harshly and I was not surprised that she got basically the maximum sentence," Pomeranz said. Griner has been detained in Russia for over five months after she was stopped at an airport for possessing vape cartridges containing hashish oil, which is illegal in the country. She faced a maximum of 10 years in prison, though she will be credited with five months time served.

American basketball star Brittney Griner apologized to her family and her team as a Russian court heard closing arguments in her drug possession trial said it expected to deliver a verdict Thursday.

In her final remarks, Griner said she had no intent to break Russian law by bringing vape cartridges containing cannabis oil with her when she flew to Moscow in February.

“I made an honest mistake, and I hope in your ruling it does not end my life,” she said.

Prosecutors asked a Russian court Thursday to convict American basketball star Brittney Griner and sentence her to 9 1/2 years in prison.

The closing day of her trial comes nearly six months after Griner’s arrest at a Moscow airport in a case that has reached the highest levels of U.S.-Russia diplomacy, with Washington proposing a prisoner exchange. Under Russian law, the 31-year-old Griner faces up to 10 years in prison if convicted.

Although a conviction is all but certain, given that Russian courts rarely acquit defendants and Griner has admitted to having vape cartridges with cannabis oil in her luggage, judges have considerable latitude on sentencing.

Lawyers for the Phoenix Mercury center and two-time Olympic gold medalist have pursued strategies to bolster Griner’s contention that she had no criminal intent and that the canisters ended up in her luggage due to hasty packing. They have presented character witnesses from the Russian team that she plays for in the WNBA offseason and written testimony from a doctor who said he prescribed her cannabis for pain treatment.

I am sure she wasn't using during her playing time in Russia. Just another self entitled athlete that thinks they are above the law. Thanks to Brandon that has been reaffirmed.

She is thankfully now home and reunited with loved ones whose torment mirrored her own.

Hyperbole much?

How can some see that her release is not a good thing? But then again, who am I kidding?

How can some fail to see that trading Putin's right hand man back to him is a bad thing for the entire planet. But then again, who am I kidding. Woke idiots are rejoicing the return of their faux hero!

Do carry on…

We are more than sure you will.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Sophomore Quiet
3.2.8  afrayedknot  replied to  Ronin2 @3.2.7    2 months ago

“Thanks to Brandon…”

Holy shit…the obsession you have is remarkable if only in its’ redundancy …how do even sleep at night knowing he is the duly elected President? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.9  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @3.2.8    2 months ago

what have you imagined now?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.10  Jack_TX  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2    2 months ago
Brittney Griner is the most dominant female basketball player in history.

Which means that nobody watches her.  Which means she has to play a second season in Russia for extra cash because her league doesn't sell enough tickets to stay afloat.

Seriously, less than 6k average attendance at her games last season.  

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Sophomore Quiet
3.2.11  afrayedknot  replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.10    2 months ago

“Which means that nobody watches her.”

She’ll certainly be watched now…by the folks only so willing to disparage an American being freed and returned home.

She will be facing a new kind of imprisonment…and sadly, one of her own country’s uniquely unforgiving nature. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.12  Jack_TX  replied to  afrayedknot @3.2.11    2 months ago
She’ll certainly be watched now…

No she won't.  She'll be out of the news cycle in a few days and we'll all go back to not giving a shit about her and rolling our eyes at the WNBA and NWSL while every male athlete in America pretends not to understand why they get paid 100 times as much as smaller, slower, less skilled players.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.13  al Jizzerror  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.9    2 months ago
what have you imagined now?

So, Tex, who is the "duly elected President"?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.14  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.13    2 months ago
So, Tex, who is the "duly elected President"?

I have to assume that is a rhetorical question because if you don't know, then I have nothing to say to you.

But to humor you, and inform you, it is Biden.

Which, of course, I have never denied. He is my President good or bad. Because America.

I don't play that sick little game of "He's not my President" bullshit like some do.,

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.15  al Jizzerror  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.14    2 months ago

3.2.9   Texan1211   replied to  afrayedknot @ 3.2.8  you said:

what have you imagined now?

afrayedknot @ 3.2.8   said:

Holy shit…the obsession you have is remarkable if only in its’ redundancy …how do even sleep at night knowing he is the duly elected President? 

So WTF did afrayedknot imagine?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.16  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.15    2 months ago
So WTF did afrayedknot imagine?

I am confident in time you'll figure it out.

Or not.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.17  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.15    2 months ago
So WTF did afrayedknot imagine?

Perhaps you should ask her.

She seems to make up stuff about what others write.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.18  al Jizzerror  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.3    2 months ago
Griner doesn't even rank in the top 20 in wnba career in points or rebounds.

Yeah she has only seven seasons in the WNBA so her career stats are for a short career.

Her last complete season in the WNBA was 2019 when she led the league in blocked shots for the seventh straight year.  She also has the NCAA record (men's and woman's) for blocked shots.  She is dominate in the paint.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.19  al Jizzerror  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.16    2 months ago
I am confident in time you'll figure it out.

Oh, I see.

You're taking the fifth like Trump(s). 

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.20  al Jizzerror  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.17    2 months ago
Perhaps you should ask her.

I'm asking YOU about YOUR fucking comment.

3.2.9   Texan1211   replied to  afrayedknot @ 3.2.8  you said:

what have you imagined now?

WTF did YOUR comment mean?

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.21  al Jizzerror  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.17    2 months ago
She seems to make up stuff about what others write.

jrSmiley_90_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.22  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.18    2 months ago

She has played less than others, for sure. But she has played in over 1/4 of the WNBA games.

She is very good, but I don't think she is the most dominate of all time. 

I have seen her play in person in quite a few games while she was at Baylor.

Even met her when we catered to the team. Seemed very nice.

The WNBA's 25 all-time greatest players, according to the stats (espn.com)

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.23  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.19    2 months ago
Oh, I see.

Oh, good, I was afraid I was going to have to explain it to you.

You're taking the fifth like Trump(s). 

It appears like you have a problem with a Constitutional amendment. Not much I can do about that, sorry.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.24  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.20    2 months ago
WTF did YOUR comment mean?

I apologize. I thought I was pretty clear when I wrote this:

She seems to make up stuff about what others write.

Let me think a while on how I can clear that up for you.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.25  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.21    2 months ago

jrSmiley_90_smiley_image.gif

Now we're talking!

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.26  al Jizzerror  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.23    2 months ago
You're taking the fifth like Trump(s). 
It appears like you have a problem with a Constitutional amendment. Not much I can do about that, sorry.

1.  This isn't a trial.

2.  I was just wondering why you are afraid to respond to this simple point:

3.2.9   Texan1211   replied to  afrayedknot @ 3.2.8  you said:

what have you imagined now?

afrayedknot @ 3.2.8     said:

Holy shit…the obsession you have is remarkable if only in its’ redundancy …how do even sleep at night knowing he is the duly elected President? 

So WTF did afrayedknot imagine?

Or, WTF did YOU imagine, Tex?

What part of the post was "made up"?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.27  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.26    2 months ago
1.  This isn't a trial.

I agree. Imagine my surprise when you brought up something used in some trials and depositions into this conversation.

2.  I was just wondering why you are afraid to respond to this simple point:

Good. I am wondering why you would believe that.

So WTF did afrayedknot imagine?

Well to give you a little context as it appears you haven't followed along very closely:

She earlier imagined some stuff I didn't even talk about.

About what I wrote in reply to your assertion that Griner is the most dominate women's BB player in history.

Then she had a comment about the duly elected President as though someone has denied that Biden is it. Kind of like you asking me if I knew who the duly elected President is in reply to something about imagination.

Or, WTF did YOU imagine, Tex?

Nothing at all, it is all right here. 

.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.28  al Jizzerror  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.27    2 months ago
Or, WTF did YOU imagine, Tex?
Nothing at all, it is all right here. 

Sorry, my bad.

I forgot that you have no imagination.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.30  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.28    2 months ago
Sorry, my bad.

No problem!

I forgot that you have no imagination.

Oh, I have one.

 I keep my imagination and reality separate.

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
3.2.31  dennissmith  replied to  afrayedknot @3.2.4    2 months ago

She is an American citizen that was detained for purely political reasons. 

Bullshit, she was arrested, tried and convicted for breaking the law of another country.

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
3.2.32  dennissmith  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.16    2 months ago

Your confidence is misplaced

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.33  Texan1211  replied to  dennissmith @3.2.32    2 months ago
Your confidence is misplaced

Clearly.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.34  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.19    2 months ago
You're taking the fifth like Trump(s). 

Do you often blurt out Trump during conversations having absolutely nothing to do with him?

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
3.2.35  Hallux  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.30    2 months ago
 I keep my imagination and reality separate.

Why, is your keyboard heavy machinery?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.36  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @3.2.35    2 months ago
Why, is your keyboard heavy machinery?

What an extraordinary absurd comment.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.37  Texan1211  replied to  dennissmith @3.2.31    2 months ago
Bullshit, she was arrested, tried and convicted for breaking the law of another country.

Facts sometimes don't matter to some.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.38  CB   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.2.1    2 months ago

And so you call for (another case of) useless comparison to Whelan and Fogel cases? These men are household names in your 'circle'? Can you just get real for a change?  I will tell you this, until this all began I had not known any of these people were alive, but that does not reflect badly on them in any way. It's just one of those things.

BTW, I could be wrong, but I expect Russia's President Putin and his administration knows the identity and whereabouts of every American and Westerner in its territorials down to the low-wage American dishwasher or homeless person in country, no?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.39  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.10    2 months ago

What exactly is the issue you are dragging us through, Jack?  After all, you seem to express justification for why Griner was in Russia (for the paydays) and you know that makes good capitalist sense, no?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.40  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.10    2 months ago

So. . . you don't want her back home just because she is a U.S. citizen arrested under questionable circumstances, yes?

2078.jpg?20200703031455

Wave this around NT much?

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
3.2.41  Hallux  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.36    2 months ago
What an extraordinary absurd comment.

Noted ... I'll address my future comments to those who have the wit of a cobaltblue.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.42  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @3.2.41    2 months ago

Great, that will make two of you who claim to know what you're talking about!

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
3.2.43  Hallux  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.42    2 months ago

One cobaltblue is 10,000 of you.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.44  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @3.2.43    2 months ago
One cobaltblue is 10,000 of you.

Will you join me in reality today?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
3.2.45  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hallux @3.2.43    2 months ago

"So there’s a big difference between equality and equity. Equality suggests, “oh everyone should get the same amount.” The problem with that, not everybody’s starting out from the same place. So if we’re all getting the same amount, but you started out back there and I started out over here, we could get the same amount, but you’re still going to be that far back behind me. It’s about giving people the resources and the support they need, so that everyone can be on equal footing, and then compete on equal footing. Equitable treatment means we all end up in the same place."

VP Harris

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
3.2.46  Hallux  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.44    2 months ago
Will you join me in reality today?

Not today, I'm far to busy reading my diary ... it's chockful of sensational stuff. (apol. to O.W.)

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
3.2.47  Hallux  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.2.45    2 months ago

Kamala and I attended the same H.S. Odd how non sequiturs follow each other around. /S

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.48  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @3.2.46    2 months ago
Not today, I'm far to busy reading my diary ... it's chockful of sensational stuff.

I kind of figured as much.

Maybe tomorrow?

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
3.2.49  cobaltblue  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.44    2 months ago

Will you join me in reality today?

You mean reality-reality, or Texan-reality? Vastly different realities.

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
3.2.50  cobaltblue  replied to  Hallux @3.2.43    2 months ago

One cobaltblue is 10,000 of you.

I'm waking you up with a massage tomorrow morning.

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
3.2.51  Hallux  replied to  cobaltblue @3.2.50    2 months ago

Yay ... the pictures of your hands have become a heavy load all stuck together in a thick ejaculated wad of imagination and reality.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.52  al Jizzerror  replied to  Hallux @3.2.43    2 months ago

jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_100_smiley_image.jpgjrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.53  Texan1211  replied to  cobaltblue @3.2.49    2 months ago

can you tell the difference?

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
3.2.54  cobaltblue  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.53    2 months ago

can you tell the difference?

Oh hell yes. 

Reality-reality: The world or the state of things as they actually exist.
Texan-reality:   Solipsism. As useless as the "ueue" in "queue". 

SolipsistCartoon-2.jpg

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.55  Texan1211  replied to  cobaltblue @3.2.54    2 months ago
Reality-reality: The world or the state of things as they actually exist.

Then why did you pretend I wrote something I never did earlier? Were you in your alternate 'reality'?

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.56  al Jizzerror  replied to  cobaltblue @3.2.54    2 months ago
Texan-reality:   Solipsism. As useless as the "ueue" in "queue". 

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
3.2.57  dennissmith  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.34    2 months ago

Some simply cannot help themselves

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
3.2.58  dennissmith  replied to  Hallux @3.2.41    2 months ago

Taht eliminates many the fringe left posters.

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
3.2.59  cobaltblue  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.55    2 months ago

Then why did you pretend I wrote something I never did earlier? Were you in your alternate 'reality'?

Your "earlier" defines nothing. I would ask what you’re referring to, but I wouldn’t want give you the false impression that I care one way or another. 

7c4995e8d7155fd9363421ded6870d3a.jpg

Have a great day!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.60  Texan1211  replied to  cobaltblue @3.2.59    2 months ago
Your "earlier" defines nothing.

Then that shows a lack of reading comprehension on your part.  If unclear, ask for clarification, I will see what I can do to make it even easier to understand.

I would ask what you’re referring to, but I wouldn’t want give you the false impression that I care one way or another. 

Willfully remaining in the dark suits you.

Have a great day!

Thanks!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.61  Texan1211  replied to  dennissmith @3.2.57    2 months ago

I know.

Kind of sad, isn't it?

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
3.2.62  cobaltblue  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.60    2 months ago
Then that shows a lack of reading comprehension on your part.  If unclear, ask for clarification, I will see what I can do to make it even easier to understand.

Hmm. You talking to me about lack of reading comprehension. Let's go over this again. 

7c4995e8d7155fd9363421ded6870d3a.jpg

Since your reading comprehension is severely lacking, then perhaps this will help clear up the matter. 

d883e5537ed8b2d7abcc1e69969177fc.jpg

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.63  Texan1211  replied to  cobaltblue @3.2.62    2 months ago
You talking to me about lack of reading comprehension. Let's go over this again. 

Yes, I was compelled to when it became apparent to me you didn't know what we were talking about.

Stick to your memes. They seem to suit you better and are usually less inane than your comments.

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
3.2.64  cobaltblue  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.63    2 months ago
Stick to your memes. They seem to suit you better and are usually less inane than your comments.

Lame. 

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.65  al Jizzerror  replied to  cobaltblue @3.2.64    2 months ago
Lame. 

512

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.66  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.30    2 months ago
I keep my imagination and reality separate.

except when it comes to religion...

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.67  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @3.2.40    2 months ago
So. . . you don't want her back home just because she is a U.S. citizen arrested under questionable circumstances, yes?

Cite me saying anything of the sort.

Do you just make this shit up on the fly or do you like read tea leaves or something and then pretend you've had a vision?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.68  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @3.2.39    2 months ago
What exactly is the issue you are dragging us through, Jack?  After all, you seem to express justification for why Griner was in Russia (for the paydays) and you know that makes good capitalist sense, no?

In very basic language, and do not try to imagine what else I must mean.  This is it.

Ready?

Trading Griner for a terrorist arms dealer was incredibly stupid.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.69  Texan1211  replied to  cobaltblue @3.2.64    2 months ago
Lame. 

Not my fault you think the truth is lame.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.70  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @3.2.66    2 months ago
except when it comes to religion...

Gee, yet another inane comment.

jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

You know, just because you are afraid of and despise religious people doesn't mean everyone suffers from the same phobia.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.71  Texan1211  replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.67    2 months ago
Cite me saying anything of the sort.

Good luck on THAT!

It doesn't even really matter what you say, some just like to imagine things and then claim we say them!

Intellectually dishonest and incredibly lazy tactic, but hey, what can we expect?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.72  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.67    2 months ago

It is a question. To which you did not bother to clarify with an ANSWER! Go figure.  I have read your rather common retort to reasonable questioning from those you deign to write back and I find it interesting that you would reply with so many words whether than a simple, not complex, and non-confusing: Yes or No.

Like the rest of us, you shall be asked for your personal point of view and when it is not forthcoming, it is. . . customary. . . to be drilled down on in hopes of more elaboration and explanation. I am sorry such activity offends you. And yes, since you chose to throw "shit" in my direction, I detect you feel offended!

On the real, it is you and people who write like you, who struggle to 'win' in this situation where an American has been brought home where the U.S. system can hold her, prosecute her if necessary, and/or detain and question her sufficiently prior to release. Why can't you just be satisfied and let it alone? Her 'issue' is really not a political 'football' to be managed by opinion anyway.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.73  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.72    2 months ago

Pretty cheeky demanding answers while studiously avoiding any questions put to you.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.74  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.73    2 months ago

Well, if you strongly feel I don't answer questions. . . avoid asking.  NT is free so you do not ever have to do anything that stresses you out and makes you feel uncomfortable!

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
3.2.75  cobaltblue  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.69    2 months ago

Not my fault you think the truth is lame.

Being easily offended is a form of narcissism combined with insecurity and below average intelligence. Just sayin'.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.76  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.74    2 months ago
Well, if you strongly feel I don't answer questions. . . avoid asking. 

Oh, trust me, I do.

No sense asking a question when I know you won't ever answer, so I stopped a while back. Just don't see where you get off demanding answers while never supplying them yourself. Feels like a double standard.

It isn't something I feel, it is just facts.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.77  Texan1211  replied to  cobaltblue @3.2.75    2 months ago
Being easily offended is a form of narcissism combined with below average intelligence.

I take no offense to your mere words. That would mean I respect you.

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
3.2.78  cobaltblue  replied to  CB @3.2.74    2 months ago

Well, if you strongly feel I don't answer questions. . . avoid asking.  NT is free so you do not ever have to do anything that stresses you out and makes you feel uncomfortable!

Simple yet brilliant.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.79  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.68    2 months ago

And who had to 'die' or abdicate power so you could decide the matter? To what degree of presidential level insight do you bring to this matter? Or do you IMAGINE President Biden 'ruled' in his decision-making without aid of trusted advisors? Moreover, what seasoned politician would first act without considering the impact of what his/her critics would be?

Of course, you think this president has acted stupidly. This is normal for you where Joe Biden is concerned, no? The very act of his presidency is richly STUPID to MAGA-ns and so you carry around a pick axe always looking up side Biden's head for something to 'dig.'

 
 
 
cobaltblue
Junior Participates
3.2.80  cobaltblue  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.77    2 months ago

I take no offense to your mere words. That would mean I respect you.

Quite alright. I understand but I also don't care. See how great that works out? 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.81  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.68    2 months ago
Trading Griner for a terrorist arms dealer was incredibly stupid.

About this "arms dealer" - I can only hope U.S. officials made it plain to him that if/when his name rises to the classification of "dangerous/extreme" and he scores as 'flashing red' he can count on being "suspended" from the game, as in denied any further old age.  This is his two of three strikes, if anyone is counting!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.82  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.79    2 months ago

Perhaps Biden should have listened to some good folks in his Justice Department.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.83  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.76    2 months ago

Okay, you've confused me. And, I don't want to render my confusion as a question. So, explain please:

Feels like a double standard; It isn't something I feel, it is just facts.

Go!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.84  CB   replied to  cobaltblue @3.2.78    2 months ago

Yes, and reminds me of the good old days of Nancy Reagan's timeless words: "Just say no!" (To drugs.) God rest her soul, she sure knew how to leave an impression on many hearts and minds! :)  Long before MAGA: There was Nancy Reagan!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.85  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.83    2 months ago
Feels like a double standard

Just don't see where you get off demanding answers while never supplying them yourself.  Let me know what is confusing you in that sentence and I will try to see if I can make it clearer.

It isn't something I feel,  it is just facts.

was a response to this:

Well, if you strongly feel I don't answer questions.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.86  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.82    2 months ago

Oh so now you want to vouch for the "good folks" at Justice! You mean the folks taking Donald Trump before the courts. Sadly, those officials are UNELECTED and deep-state trained and tested-you can't trust them-MAGA-don't do it!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.87  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.86    2 months ago
Oh so now you want to vouch for the "good folks" at Justice!

Golly, don't you?

You mean the folks taking Donald Trump before the courts. Sadly, those officials are UNELECTED anddeep-statetrained and tested-you can't trust them-MAGA-don't do it!

My, my, that certainly didn't take long! Is that your personal best time for working Donald Trump into an unrelated conversation? It's gotta be close at least!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.88  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.85    2 months ago

You can't prove it! I have been fielding questions/answers/information all week long.  Keep current. Take your pick. It is not now or ever in the future my duty to make you feel comfortable with my comments. Speaking of standards, I don't see you going any where near out of your way to please me. We're all adults here and thus, we can handle communications if we really put our minds to it.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.89  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.88    2 months ago
We're all adults here and thus, we can handle communications if we really put our minds to it.

You may climb down from your soapbox now. You have so rarely answered one of my questions I can't remember when the last time was. Oh, you have responded, but that is something totally different.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.90  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.87    2 months ago

Two questions. You feel stronger now. That's good.  Feel good! 1. The men and women of Justice are under the influence of a good leader in President Biden, a respected leader nationally and internationally. It is odd that you detest and distrust this leader, but sadly you have chosen your team of associates in this life.

2. I don't keep 'day-watch' or 'night-watch' over my commentary on Donald Trump, I just go with the ebb and flow of 'things.' BTW, you appear to run an algorithm that flags, "Donald" + "Trump" combinations that keep you on 'task' - it's a waste of time, all the same—on account of me. You know, liberty, freedom, and such.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.91  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.89    2 months ago

Ask better questions. Spend some time talking to the opposition and less time trying to 'shine' or get a 'rise' out of it and—the sky can be the limit! :)

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
3.2.92  al Jizzerror  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.73    2 months ago
Pretty cheeky demanding answers while studiously avoiding any questions put to you.

So maybe you should quit doing that.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.93  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.91    2 months ago
Ask better questions.

If one can't answer the easy ones, what would be the point?

Talking to the opposition is pointless when they can't clarify their positions.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.94  Texan1211  replied to  al Jizzerror @3.2.92    2 months ago
So maybe you should quit doing that.

Perhaps you should give examples for what you claim.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.95  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.90    2 months ago
1. The men and women of Justice are under the influence of a good leader in President Biden, a respected leader nationally and internationally. It is odd that you detest and distrust this leader, but sadly you have chosen your team of associates in this life.

Would their actions be different under another President?

2.I don't keep 'day-watch' or 'night-watch' over my commentary on Donald Trump, I just go with the ebb and flow of 'things.' BTW, you appear to run an algorithm that flags, "Donald" + "Trump" combinations that keep you on 'task' - it's a waste of time, all the same—on account of me. You know, liberty, freedom, and such.

No, I just get tired when the sum total of so many arguments is "I Hate Trump" crap being used as a constant deflection whenever anyone criticizes Biden for anything.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.2.96  Ronin2  replied to  afrayedknot @3.2.8    2 months ago

I never once said Brandon wasn't the duly elected president.

Where the fuck were you for the last 7 years? 

I am treating Brandon (and his supporters) the exact same way Trump and his supporters were for the last 7 years and counting.

I will hold Brandon and his supporters responsible for every last one of his fuck ups; and he has a shit load of them to answer for.

Don't like it? Tough shit.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2.97  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Ronin2 @3.2.96    2 months ago
I am treating Brandon (and his supporters) the exact same way Trump and his supporters were for the last 7 years and counting

Now you are going to make people cry.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.98  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.93    2 months ago

An obstructionist question's construction reads as such and speaks for itself. It lacks genuineness and is not entitled to a proper answer. It is its own reward!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.99  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.95    2 months ago

No. Justice's activities should be the same practices across the board, but we were informed of spotty and divisive miseducation of the Trump Administration's use of the department. You can read about it online, it was newsworthy material then and now.

Don't worry 'bout Trump. He is a man who wears down quite a few good people who play his game. And as you are certainly aware I have been 'reading' Donald Trump for his bull patty since he insulted Mexicans in his role as 2015 candidate Trump. Biden is not my motivation for reading Donald-principle is.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.100  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.98    2 months ago
An obstructionist question's construction reads as such and speaks for itself. It lacks genuineness and is not entitled to a proper answer.

Talking to the opposition is pointless when they can't clarify their positions. Stop blaming me for your obstinate refusal to answer questions, especially ones about claims you have made.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.101  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.99    2 months ago
No. Justice's activities should be the same practices across the board, but we were informed of spotty and divisive miseducation of the Trump Administration's use of the department.

You make less and less sense.

I am not interested in your Trump hysteria or obsession.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.102  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @3.2.79    2 months ago
And who had to 'die' or abdicate power so you could decide the matter?

Thousands of Liberians, Angolans, Afghans, Sierra Leoneans, and Congolese.   Have you read anything at all about this?

Or do you IMAGINE President Biden 'ruled' in his decision-making without aid of trusted advisors?

I think he listened to his political advisors instead of his national security advisors. 

Of course, you think this president has acted stupidly. This is normal for you where Joe Biden is concerned, no?

Actually, no.  I voted for the man.  That said, he's mishandled a few situations quite terribly.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.103  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.101    2 months ago

And yet. . . .this saga you often put on continues!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.104  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.102    2 months ago

Was that a detour or a short-cut you took there? Your reply does not follow this comment:

_v=63f541501163220
Masters Quiet
3.2.10 Jack_TX replied to  al Jizzerror @ 3.2   3 days ago
Brittney Griner is the most dominant female basketball player in history.

Which means that nobody watches her.  Which means she has to play a second season in Russia for extra cash because her league doesn't sell enough tickets to stay afloat.

Seriously, less than 6k average attendance at her games last season.  

 
   3.2.10 ', 'Jack_TX', 'jack-tx')"> REPLY
You have confused more than me, I think! What does any of the mentioned countries you paraded have to do with female basketball players who work in Russia? I will offer you my time to explain to this room.
President Biden is clearly not your cup of tea; In 2024 you can self-correct and get this 'right' once and for all! Vote for 'the other guy or gal'!
 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.105  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @3.2.104    2 months ago
You have confused more than me, I think!
No.  Just you.
What does any of the mentioned countries you paraded have to do with female basketball players who work in Russia? I will offer you my time to explain to this room.
The countries in question are where Viktor Bout sold weapons illegally.  
After you have done some reading on the topic, we'll resume.
 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.106  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.105    2 months ago
_v=63f541501163220
Masters Quiet
3.2.10 Jack_TX replied to  al Jizzerror @ 3.2   3 days ago
Brittney Griner is the most dominant female basketball player in history.

Which means that nobody watches her.  Which means she has to play a second season in Russia for extra cash because her league doesn't sell enough tickets to stay afloat.

Seriously, less than 6k average attendance at her games last season

Oh, so we are back to Viktor Bout again. I was following the straight-line of your diminishing the 'poor' defenseless and 'broken' lesbian basketball professional with no love coming from MAGA republicans.  Go ahead, take a bow, you swerved off and I kept the course—I think I shall take a bow too! :)

In any case, you are unqualified to carry water for or to any dead 'internationals,' when you won't even support your own government for paltry political reasons of a lost-cause group of conservatives who could not win an election and then lied about its losing, and with the gall to try to overthrow the most powerful government known and accepted in the world. And you have the audacity to trash a woman fighting to get home after trying to make some capital-when all you are is about 'mo' and 'mo' money.

The thing speaks for itself.

Lastly, Viktor Bout was given what for his crimes against America? The maximum or a minimum sentence? Answer, please.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.107  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @3.2.106    2 months ago
Oh, so we are back to Viktor Bout again.

I never left.  I don't know what conversation you were having.  

Come to think of it, I still don't.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.108  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.107    2 months ago

Really. Now, it's my 'turn' to be diminished Jack_TX? The black lesbian basketball professional who gets no love from MAGA and you is back home and there is nothing any of you can do about it! And, I am not affected by childish vitriolic displays of emotion. Mature emotional outbursts when justice and truth are flipped on their head— affects me!  Yes, it does.

The thing speaks for itself.

Lastly, Viktor Bout was given what for his crimes against America? The maximum or a minimum sentence? Answer, please. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.2.109  Trout Giggles  replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.12    2 months ago
smaller, slower, less skilled players.

I want to see you play a 1 on 1 game with Griner

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.110  Jack_TX  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.2.109    2 months ago
I want to see you play a 1 on 1 game with Griner

Oh, is that what it would take for you to actually watch her play?  Interesting.  

It would be significantly closer than me vs Kevin Durant.  Or even me vs Steph Curry, who is my size.  Or even me against Chris Paul, who is 4 inches shorter than I am.  And any of those guys would beat Griner at least as badly as she'd beat me.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.111  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @3.2.108    2 months ago
Really. Now, it's my 'turn' to be diminished Jack_TX?

I thought that was your permanent state of affairs.  That's what you tell everybody, anyway.

The black lesbian basketball professional who gets no love from MAGA and you is back home and there is nothing any of you can do about it!

We all realize you are going to be defensive of another gay black person.  

I have said for months I think that the President should lobby with the Russians for her release, but not if it meant releasing a dangerous criminal in exchange.

It's like you getting a new Mercedes.  I think it's a great idea.  I don't think you should pay $4million for one, because that would be stupid.

And, I am not affected by childish vitriolic displays of emotion. Mature emotional outbursts when justice and truth are flipped on their head— affects me!  Yes, it does.

Once again, I have no idea WTF you're talking about.

The thing speaks for itself

But nobody but you has any idea what it's saying.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.112  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.111    2 months ago

Jack_TX, I think it is good, better than good, that MAGA is stuck without a clue as to how to get out of its own way when it comes to 'situationals.' Let's see if 'gays' can do their part to keep MAGA lost and confused. Toodles!

Brittney Griner is released, you have 'rendered' some thoughts then and now (your words) and stronger minds (and activism) won out. Get over it or just continue to gripe about it. President Biden has moved on. . . likely to another set of 'distressing' decisions MAGA will undoubtedly stick out its tongues and wag.

I will defend a black lesbian and a white lesbian, and/or a polka-dotted lesbian too from haters who can't accept that this is the only deal in town doable: A take it or leave it. Of course, MAGA would leave it: What's a superbly tall woman lesbian to a bunch of hyper-heterosexuals?  Some 'thing' to be exploited and that's all.

Continually fighting against your fellow citizens and being heedless is not a good look. But, since MAGA is beyond shame- go on- MAGA, turn around, stick it out, and pat MAGA fat ass for all the world to see!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.2.113  Trout Giggles  replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.110    2 months ago

Hell, I know they would beat her. They're bigger and have longer arms.

I actually don't watch sports period and had never heard of Griner until this incident. I just had to get a little dig in. I'm feeling ornery

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.114  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @3.2.112    2 months ago
Let's see if 'gays' can do their part to keep MAGA lost and confused.

You have everybody lost and confused, CB.

I will defend a black lesbian and a white lesbian, and/or a polka-dotted lesbian too from haters who can't accept that this is the only deal in town doable: A take it or leave it.

Is there any point in your thought processes where people should be responsible for their own actions?  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.115  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.114    2 months ago
Is there any point in your thought processes where people should be responsible for their own actions? 

She is responsible for her own actions, and guess what? The black lesbian professional ball player and her support team just delivered a textbook, "Lessons Learned," which MAGA can use to free Whelan and Fogel out of Russia. Will Magans talk about it or be about getting these men free of Russia?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.116  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @3.2.115    2 months ago
She is responsible for her own actions, and guess what?

You obviously don't think so.  You think she should get out of jail free no matter what it costs the rest of us.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.117  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.116    2 months ago

What does it cost you that a black, lesbian, professional basketball player is back home with her family? And how do you plan to get paid back because of it? BTW, what will it cost you to get Whelan and Fogel back home with their families? And do you intend to get your money's worth out of either of the two men? I think you are aware no one gives a damn what MAGA thinks about the exchange. Why? Because it's clear MAGA only wants what is good for conservatives and everyone else be damned.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.118  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.103    2 months ago
And yet. . . .this saga you often put on continues!

I look forward to a cogent reply from you.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.119  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.118    2 months ago

try a prayer...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.120  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @3.2.119    2 months ago
try a prayer...

Some prayers aren't answered right away....

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.121  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.118    2 months ago

The saga continues. . . .!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.122  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.2.121    2 months ago
The saga continues. . . .!

As does the constant deflections from you and inane posts having nothing to do with anything I have written!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.123  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.120    2 months ago

[Deleted

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3  CB   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3    2 months ago

All things being equal/equitable, maybe! Lay your facts out for us to review, put down the big-ass 'flag' you're waving, and let us consider what you know about this!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.1  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.3    2 months ago
let us consider what you know about this!

why don't you just tell him what he 'said'?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.3.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @3.3    2 months ago
Lay your facts out for us to review,

They're out there.  Review all you want.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.3  CB   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.3.2    2 months ago

As I thought: All passion and anemic facts to spread out before us for close examination. Got it!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.3.4  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  CB @3.3.3    2 months ago

Oh how cute.  He thinks I'm a liberal.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.5  CB   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3.3.4    2 months ago

NOPE. Just passionate where it hurts.

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Quiet
4  squiggy    2 months ago

"...how a phone mixup by the U.S. government left her unable to connect with her wife on the couple's four-year wedding anniversary."

Aw jeez, tell it to Whelan.

 
 
 
George
Freshman Guide
4.1  George  replied to  squiggy @4    2 months ago

Cause that's what's important, optics, not that we left a Marine behind, or that we released the merchant of death to sell arms to kill Americans. But Griner missed her anniversary! That is what is important here. 

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Quiet
4.1.1  squiggy  replied to  George @4.1    2 months ago

Ain't it? I'd rather see the laundry guys from Jbad come here.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
4.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  George @4.1    2 months ago

We left no Marine behind.

Whelan is a disgraced ex Marine, separated from active duty after a Courts Marshal found him guilty for dereliction of duty, forgery, check kiting, identity theft, false statements on official documents and false statements to superiors. 

While in Russia for a friends wedding (really?), he accepted a flash drive to give to another

friend, (really?) which he said was only wedding photos.  When trying to leave the country the

FSS found the flash drive and supposedly it contained much, much more than wedding photos.

So he is not an unblemished veteran of the USMC and he is at least as guilty and dumb as

Griner for breaking Russian laws.

That is why the Soviets are insisting on trading a spy for a spy in Whelan's case and neither

Trump or Biden have the spy they want.  The Russian's want one of their spies jailed in Germany

for murder, in exchange for Whelan and the German's won't even consider it.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1.3  Kavika   replied to  Split Personality @4.1.2    2 months ago

It was a ''bad conduct'' discharge.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.4  CB   replied to  Split Personality @4.1.2    2 months ago

MAGA knows better. But, they are not about to let this opportunity to diminish somebody the Biden Administration is celebrating off of the 80/20 positivity train. Just accent the negative (20 percent) until the right-wing cult buys it (as the 80 percent negative). MAGA is shameless proof!

Incidentally, MAGA is doing that thing it does all the time! Conflating two or three separate issues into one and then stirring about their discontentment!

Whelan/Fogle/Others/Griner are not 'twins' or 'triplets' or 'Quadruples' each situation happened under its separate weight and construction in Russia!

Of course, MAGA understands this! Just ask and watch them separate/cut January 6, 2021 'players' from one another pulling Trump out of the stack and off to the 'side'! MAGA is not stupid, for real, they just play a game named for it!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
4.1.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @4.1.4    2 months ago
to diminish somebody the Biden Administration is celebrating off of the 80/20 positivity train.

What does celebrating off of the 80/20 positivity train mean?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.6  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.5    2 months ago

Accent/celebrate the positive 80 percentile more than inverting the 20 percentile of negativity. :)

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
4.1.7  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @4.1.6    2 months ago

Thanks, that really clarified your thinking.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.8  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.7    2 months ago

You're welcome.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
5  Jack_TX    2 months ago
"This was not a choice for us on which American to bring home. It was a choice between bringing home one American or none," said White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre.

Given the deal, the correct answer was 'none'.  

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
5.1  al Jizzerror  replied to  Jack_TX @5    2 months ago
the correct answer was 'none'.

jrSmiley_51_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6  JBB    2 months ago

To even the playing field, we should now be able to trade our own gun dealers, aka "merchants of death", to tyrants, dictators and despots in exchange for all the Americans being held in inhumane foreign prisons!

Sounds like a win win deal to me! We get our people back and they get to imprison, torture and execute the causes of so much human suffering!

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
6.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @6    2 months ago
we should now be able to trade our own gun dealers, aka "merchants of death", to tyrants, dictators and despots in exchange for all Americans being held in inhumane foreign pris

Great plan. Trade American citizens for American citizens.   

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.1.1  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.1    2 months ago

No, trade "Merchants Of Death" for those who never hurt others! 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.1    2 months ago

such an idiotic suggestion!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @6.1.1    2 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.1.4  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.2    2 months ago

I am making fun of rightwing hypocrisy about gun dealers! 

If a Russian gun dealer is a merchant of death so are ours.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
6.1.5  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @6.1.4    2 months ago
ussian gun dealer is a merchant of death so are ours.

You really typed that out and pressed "post?"

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.1.6  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.1.5    2 months ago

What are gun dealers who sell guns out of the trunks of cars or at unlicensed gun shows to anybody with cash without doing a background checks? Aren't they also, "Merchants Of Death"?

How many people are in American jails for illegal gun sales?

They would obviously be the first ones to trade to foreigners.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @6.1.4    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.1.8  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.7    2 months ago

Do not ever say liberals don't understand satire ever again!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.1.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @6.1.6    2 months ago
What are gun dealers who sell guns out of the trunks of cars or at unlicensed gun shows to anybody with cash without doing a background checks? 

How many times have you seen either happen?

How many people are in American jails for illegal gun sales?

Damn few I imagine.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @6.1.8    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.1.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @6.1.4    2 months ago
I am making fun of rightwing hypocrisy about gun dealers! 

Exactly, prefect equivalence:

  • UN ID'd Bout as an associate of former Liberian President Charles Taylor, convicted in 2012 on charges of aiding and abetting war crimes during the Sierra Leone civil war.
  • Gun-runner for al-Qaeda and the Taliban
  • Armed both sides in Angola's civil war
  • Supplied weapons to warlords and governments from the Central African Republic and the Democratic Republic of Congo to Sudan and Libya

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.1.12  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.9    2 months ago

Are you really so unaware that there are hundreds, nay thousands, of Americans imprisoned for participation in illegal gun sales?

Can you imagine the suffering or the losses cause by people selling and buying illegal, unregistered, undocumented, and often untraceable guns sold without background checks?

Enlighten Yourself!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.1.13  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.11    2 months ago

Thank you for illustrating my point. The far right is hair on fire and panties in a bunch about the US releasing a foreign gun merchant, but excuse or do nothing to help us stop the trade in illicit gun in America and other countries by American "Merchants Of Death"...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.1.14  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @6.1.12    2 months ago

From your link:

While there are numerous federal provisions, just one of these accounts for three out of every four federal weapons prosecutions. During FY 2017, federal records indicate this was the lead charge for 6,161 prosecutions. This statutory provision is found at 18 USC § 922(g)(1) which prohibits any felon from possessing, shipping/transporting, or receiving any firearm or ammunition. The penalty for violating this law is up to ten years imprisonment and/or a $250,000 fine.

The next most frequently used statute is 18 USC § 924(c)(1)(A)(i) which provides for enhanced penalties for the use, carrying, possession of a firearm during the commission of a federal crime of violence or drug trafficking crime. While the second most frequently used, just under one out of twenty (4.6%) of gun prosecutions during the last five years was under this statute. During FY 2017, a total of 339 individuals were prosecuted with this lead charge. This provision has been increasingly relied upon by federal prosecutors - with 81.3 percent more prosecutions under this provision during the last five years, than were seen during the previous five-year period. This occurred despite the fact that the number of gun prosecutions overall has fallen.

In third place, with a total of 226 individuals prosecuted during FY 2017 was a provision concerning unlawful possession of a firearm by a person unlawfully in the United States (18 USC § 922(g)(5)(A)). This provision accounted for 3.3 percent of gun prosecutions during the last five years. Use of this provision, however, is down during the last five years over the number during the previous five-year period.

These examples seem more about street sales to felons, riminals using a gun during the commision of a crime and illegal aliens pocessing a firearm, not gun dealers at gun shows.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.1.15  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @6.1.13    2 months ago
do nothing to help us stop the trade in illicit gun in America

Are you suggesting that we need a War on Guns like our War on Drugs?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.1.16  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.15    2 months ago

Are you suggesting our merchants of death are somehow not as culpable for the devastation and loss which results from the sale of illicit guns both here and abroad? How Quaint! /S

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6.1.17  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.15    2 months ago

You know the left are afraid of guns.  Look at their reaction to a .22 caliber semi-automatic rifle.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.1.18  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @6.1.16    2 months ago
Are you suggesting our merchants of death are somehow not as culpable for the devastation and loss which results from the sale of illicit guns both here and abroad?

I see you didn't answer the simple question.  I don't really know how you define US merchants of death.  How many US  manufactured weapons do you think are in the world marketplace?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.1.19  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.18    2 months ago

Yes, I think all those who sell illicit guns to murderers should suffer commensurate with the suffering that they cause...

There are hundreds of millions of US manufactured guns!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.1.20  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @6.1.19    2 months ago
I think all those who sell illicit guns to murderers should suffer commensurate with the suffering that they cause...

I think those that sell guns illegally should be prosecuted.  I said few are and you haven't disputed that with any numbers.

There are hundreds of millions of US manufactured guns!

How many outside of the USA?

Do you want a war on guns like our war on drugs?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
6.1.21  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @6.1.4    2 months ago
I am making fun of rightwing hypocrisy about gun dealers! 

I'm sure you think you are.  

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
6.1.22  al Jizzerror  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.9    2 months ago
How many times have you seen either happen?

Go to a "turkey shoot".  Then go to the parking lot after the event.  Guys are selling Glocks, AR-15s, AK-47s, etc. out of the trunks of their cars and out of vans.  I've seen that shit after every turkey shoot.

And fucking gun shows are notorious for the lack of background checks.  Many sales there are made by vendors who do not have an FFL (Federal Firearms License).  Many online sales don't require a background check because they advertise that they don't have an FFL.

 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.1.23  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  al Jizzerror @6.1.22    2 months ago

Did the police respond quickly after you called 911?

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
6.1.24  al Jizzerror  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.23    2 months ago
Did the police respond quickly after you called 911?

Why would I call the police?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.1.25  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  al Jizzerror @6.1.24    2 months ago

You were witnessing criminal behavior that might well result in gun deaths.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
6.1.26  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.25    2 months ago

Half of the turkeys and half of the shooters are LEOs.

No need to call the guy standing next to you.jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
6.1.27  al Jizzerror  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.25    2 months ago
You were witnessing criminal behavior

I didn't witness any criminal behavior.  Person to person gun sales do NOT require a background check (unless the individual making a sale has an FFL).  Individuals can legally buy sell and swap guns.  This is how many of the sales at gun shows (and online sales) can be executed without background checks.

Facebook Moves to Ban Private Gun Sales on Its Site and Instagram

    • Jan. 29, 2016

Facebook is banning private sales of guns on its flagship social network and its Instagram photo-sharing service, a move meant to clamp down on unlicensed gun transactions.

Facebook already prohibits people from offering marijuana, pharmaceuticals and illegal drugs for sale, and the company said on Friday that it was updating its policy to include guns. The ban applies to private, person-to-person sales of guns. Licensed gun dealers and gun clubs can still maintain Facebook pages and post on Instagram.

Although Facebook was not directly involved in gun sales, it has served as a forum for gun sales to be negotiated, without people having to undergo background checks. The social network, with 1.6 billion monthly visitors, had become one of the world’s largest marketplaces for guns and was increasingly evolving into an e-commerce site where it could facilitate transactions of goods.

The ban thrusts Facebook into the center of another major societal debate. Discussions over gun control have flared anew after the mass shootings last year in San Bernardino, Calif., and a community college in Oregon, among others. In January, President Obama gave a speech promising to tighten enforcement of laws governing unlicensed gun sales . In response, some individual sellers said they would turn to sites like Facebook, which allowed them to freely advertise guns for sale.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Junior Expert
6.1.28  al Jizzerror  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.26    2 months ago
Half of the turkeys and half of the shooters are LEOs.

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.1.29  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.26    2 months ago

I used to buy guns at estate sales and sell some to the cops I played poker with a decade ago. anybody with cash can get a handgun within the hour and more exotic hardware within a day.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @6    2 months ago

Not into that due process thingy, jbb?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.2.1  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.2    2 months ago

I was being sarcastic. You could not possibly understand...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.2.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @6.2.1    2 months ago
I was being sarcastic. You could not possibly understand...

As was I.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.2.3  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.2.2    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @6.2.3    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.2.5  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.4    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.2.6  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @6.2.5    2 months ago

Have you forgotten how these social media sites work?  

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.2.7  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.2.6    2 months ago

Have I told you lately what an asset you are to liberal causes? Every time you guys post your lame wrongheaded bassackwards worthless dishonest creepy insincere comments another woman, minority or LGBTQ person swears to never ever vote for the gop!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
6.2.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @6.2.7    2 months ago
Have I told you lately what an asset you are to liberal causes?

No, I can't remember you ever telling me anything.

Every time you guys post

You guys?

lame wrongheaded bassackwards worthless dishonest creepy insincere comments another woman, minority or LGBTQ person swears to never ever vote for the gop!

When have I written lame, wrongheaded, bassackwards, worthless, dishonest, creepy, insincere, comments about women, minorities or LGBTQ people?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.2.9  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.2.8    2 months ago